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Nefreet
2009-04-26, 04:38 PM
Our DM is starting a new campaign with the three of us being level 1. The only restrictions set up for us are we have to be human, age 18, and we can't be a Loremaster. We want to make the most BROKEN level 1 characters he will ever see. Can anyone help us? Other than the above-mentioned restrictions we probably won't have much access to magic items for a while. A short level-up progression would be cool, too, if nobody minds =)

Thanks guys!

monty
2009-04-26, 04:40 PM
Looking at your title, I can't help thinking that this can only end badly. Whenever a game turns into players vs. DM, it never turns out well. Also, the DM will always win if he wants to.

Anyway, if you want the most broken level 1 character imaginable, just play Pun-Pun.

TaintedLight
2009-04-26, 04:40 PM
Just play duskblades. INSTANTLY broken.

streakster
2009-04-26, 04:44 PM
Just play duskblades. INSTANTLY broken.

:confused:

Je ne comprende pas.

Sucrose
2009-04-26, 04:45 PM
Just play duskblades. INSTANTLY broken.

Please tell me that you jest. In any case, I agree with the first responder that this will not end well. Why do you want to get back at him? For making you play level 1 characters? For removing the possibility of Loremaster? I'm just not seeing why you should be wanting to do this.

WaterTengu
2009-04-26, 04:46 PM
Looking at your title, I can't help thinking that this can only end badly. Whenever a game turns into players vs. DM, it never turns out well. Also, the DM will always win if he wants to.

Anyway, if you want the most broken level 1 character imaginable, just play Pun-Pun.

Ok, i keep hearing that word, but I don't know what it is. What is Pun-Pun?

Ceaon
2009-04-26, 04:47 PM
The only restrictions set up for us are we have to be human, (...)


(...) Anyway, if you want the most broken level 1 character imaginable, just play Pun-Pun.

Good suggestion, but not possible, I'm afraid.
Could a diplomancer work at level 1?

Edit: PunPun is a kobold who abuses the rules to create an infinite loop. You can read all about it here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801).

chiasaur11
2009-04-26, 04:47 PM
Just play duskblades. INSTANTLY broken.

I see this so often.

People these days just can't spell "druid" right.

Flickerdart
2009-04-26, 04:48 PM
Looking at your title, I can't help thinking that this can only end badly. Whenever a game turns into players vs. DM, it never turns out well. Also, the DM will always win if he wants to.

Anyway, if you want the most broken level 1 character imaginable, just play Pun-Pun.
They have to be Human, Pun-Pun is a Kobold.

At level 1, not much broken-ness to be had. Go Wizard with two Flaws so you can pick up Metamagic. Have someone be a Beguiler or Factotum for Trapfinding, and then a Cleric and Druid with a Fleshraker companion.

Alternately, play a Truenamer, CW Samurai, Monk and Soulknife, all with Vow of Poverty. Your DM will be more frustrated at these characters that will never be able to accomplish anything than he would at Pun-Puns.

Edit: Oh yes, Diplomancers. Take Skill Focus: Diplomacy, Negotiator and max CHA for +9, +4 from skill ranks, and 10 average roll for hitting DC23 half the time, enough to make Hostile creatures simply Unfriendly (DC20) or Indifferent (DC25).

streakster
2009-04-26, 04:49 PM
Ok, i keep hearing that word, but I don't know what it is. What is Pun-Pun?

By the power of links, I educate thee! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=491801)

monty
2009-04-26, 04:49 PM
Good suggestion, but not possible, I'm afraid.
Could a diplomancer work at level 1?

I guess you haven't seen the most recent Pun-Pun. It can be pretty much anything now.

Froogleyboy
2009-04-26, 04:50 PM
If it does become player vs dm the DM WILL win. It happened with me and my players, I simply said:
"The beings of the upper planes are angered by your decisions. Loud music plays in your mind, it is very sharp and shrill. The sky breaks open and floods with angels to punish you"

:biggrin:

chiasaur11
2009-04-26, 04:56 PM
If it does become player vs dm the DM WILL win. It happened with me and my players, I simply said:
"The beings of the upper planes are angered by your decisions. Loud music plays in your mind, it is very sharp and shrill. The sky breaks open and floods with angels to punish you"

:biggrin:

Pun-pun still works.

Singular enemy (self) is possibly the most broken ability ever.

Jack_Simth
2009-04-26, 04:56 PM
As others have said, your title is a really, really bad idea.

In a game of DM vs. Players, everybody loses.

Solution: Make the character you'll have the most fun with.

Dogmantra
2009-04-26, 04:59 PM
All play monk/paladin multiclasses (start as a level 1 monk, then multi to paladin at level 3)

It CAN'T be more broken :smallwink:

streakster
2009-04-26, 05:02 PM
All play monk/paladin multiclasses (start as a level 1 monk, then multi to paladin at level 3)

It CAN'T be more broken :smallwink:

:confused:

Je ne comprende pas.

Nefreet
2009-04-26, 05:07 PM
I've been playing for years, this isn't the old "DM vs. Player" confrontation that most people have replied with. We're just looking for a good combination of broken characters. We're not normally power-levelers or anything, we usually enjoy a nice game, we just want to shake things up for a change.

Again, has to be HUMAN.

Funny thing is I played a monk/paladin in his last campaign. I agree, hella broken.

Assassin89
2009-04-26, 05:09 PM
:confused:

Je ne comprende pas.

Many people dislike the monk and paladin classes. If everyone goes bard, you can be annoying incarnate.

streakster
2009-04-26, 05:11 PM
Many people dislike the monk and paladin classes. If everyone goes bard, you can be annoying incarnate.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, I get it. I was assuming this was an attempt at power, hence the "quoi?" factor.

In that case, we somehow need to involve kender. Cohort?

MeklorIlavator
2009-04-26, 05:13 PM
I've been playing for years, this isn't the old "DM vs. Player" confrontation that most people have replied with. We're just looking for a good combination of broken characters. We're not normally power-levelers or anything, we usually enjoy a nice game, we just want to shake things up for a change.
Just make a party of Druid, Beguiler, Artificer, Wizard. I think that should be strong enough.


Again, has to be HUMAN.
So far, everything is. Pun-Pun can be human now,

Funny thing is I played a monk/paladin in his last campaign. I agree, hella broken.
How was it broken? Unless you really ignore major class features, you need every stat but Int, and I can't think of anything it would do well.

Nefreet
2009-04-26, 05:16 PM
There are only 3 of us, not 4.

Haven
2009-04-26, 05:17 PM
Why are you trying to get back at your DM? Is playing 18-year-old level 1 humans really that bad?

MeklorIlavator
2009-04-26, 05:18 PM
Druid, Beguiler, and then Preferably Artificer, though Wizard could also work.

Nefreet
2009-04-26, 05:20 PM
Why are you trying to get back at your DM? Is playing 18-year-old level 1 humans really that bad?

That really has nothing to do with it, someone else earlier said that, not me.

WeeFreeMen
2009-04-26, 05:22 PM
Skip the Magic

Grab a Barbarian or Fighter, get a 2Hander and start beating someones face in..

Just put points in Balance and as for feats Iron will? Idk

Dont care to Optimize a lv 1...

My advice, anything he can throw at you at lv1 can be solved with Brute force or arrows. :D

Siosilvar
2009-04-26, 05:23 PM
That really has nothing to do with it, someone else earlier said that, not me.

That has everything to do with it, given the title and the contents of the first post.

Unless you're saying that someone hijacked your account and posted this thread, or somesuch.

TaintedLight
2009-04-26, 05:24 PM
Please tell me that you jest.

I know a lot of people don't find the duskblade broken, but it feels to me like they steal the thunder from traditional fighter/wizards in a very annoying way. They may not get fireball, but they get doom scarabs. It's essentially the same thing except better. Versatility in spells is a bit of an issue, but that's what a decent HD and 3/4 BAB are for.

afroakuma
2009-04-26, 05:26 PM
:confused:

Je ne comprende pas.

Je ne comprends pas le mot "comprende." Il me semble que ce n'est pas un mot français.

Nefreet
2009-04-26, 05:28 PM
That has everything to do with it, given the title and the contents of the first post.

Unless you're saying that someone hijacked your account and posted this thread, or somesuch.

*smacks self in face with hand*

No, I mean the restrictions of being human, 18, and no loremaster. THAT has nothing to do with this.

Dixieboy
2009-04-26, 05:28 PM
If it does become player vs dm the DM WILL win. It happened with me and my players, I simply said:
"The beings of the upper planes are angered by your decisions. Loud music plays in your mind, it is very sharp and shrill. The sky breaks open and floods with angels to punish you"

:biggrin:
Pun pun would still win

Infinite BaB HP and AC and all

streakster
2009-04-26, 05:33 PM
Je ne comprends pas le mot "comprende." Il me semble que ce n'est pas un mot français.


Merci!

La raison pour le mot "comprende", c'est que j'ai également étudié la langue d'espagnol.

Je suis bête. :smallsigh:.

Dogmantra
2009-04-26, 05:44 PM
:confused:

Je ne comprende pas.

I tried to think of the worst, most horribly MAD multiclass... Monk/Paladin needs everything but INT, to some degree... there's also the bit about not liking the fluff...

Dixieboy
2009-04-26, 05:46 PM
Anyway guys, girls and everything inbetween

he asked for broken level 1 characters, no reaseon to take the moral highground here and go "Well you really shouldn't"
That's OT/irrelevant and also stupid, it's his decision to mess with his DM, let him.

For builds

Druid

Done.

Chronos
2009-04-26, 06:04 PM
To be clear, do you want something that's powerful at level 1, or something that's powerful in general? Because most classes suck at level 1-- The front-liners can still get killed by a lucky crit, and the spellcasters just don't have the stamina yet to pull ahead. To my knowledge, there are only four that don't suck:

1: Druid. Even if you do nothing else, your animal companion is nearly as powerful as a fighter. Like the fighter, it's also at risk of dying to a lucky crit, but that doesn't matter, since it's expendable: If it dies, you just get a new one 24 hours later, with no penalty.

2: Warlock. You can either use a ranged-touch attack that does 1d6 damage at will plus some other nifty trick, or you can use an unavoidable area-effect attack that does 1d6 damage to four squares plus has two saving throws vs. bad effects.

3: Dragonfire Adept. You have an area-effect attack that does 1d6, save half, which you can make entangling, plus you have some other nifty trick.

4: Incarnate. You can do 2d6 damage at will (or 3d6, with the right build) as a ranged touch attack, plus have some other trick available that you can change every day.

If you want to get cheesy, there are some other gimmicks you can pull off to not suck at first level, such as playing a spellcaster with Precocious Apprentice and a damaging reserve feat like Fiery Burst. But those are the only four that don't suck, right out of the box.

Nefreet
2009-04-26, 06:10 PM
those are the only four that don't suck, right out of the box.

Thank you, thank you! This looks the most promising so far.

TaintedLight
2009-04-26, 06:16 PM
I wouldn't call them broken per se, but binders can be quite powerful if played right at level 1.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-04-26, 06:18 PM
As can Martial Adepts, if built correctly.

Chronos
2009-04-26, 06:27 PM
Martial adepts and binders are certainly ahead of the curve at level 1, but I would still put them as "don't suck as much as most", rather than "not suck". And what vestige were you thinking of using, TaintedLight? IIRC, all of the ones available at level 1 require you to get a little too close to the enemies for comfort.

Nefreet
2009-04-26, 06:30 PM
I'm looking over the Incarnate right now. I am intrigued, I've never played one. What build is best IYO? Feats? Multiclassing?

Froogleyboy
2009-04-26, 06:35 PM
just be a human fighter and choose a fighting style and put those three feats to use.

afroakuma
2009-04-26, 06:37 PM
Merci!

La raison pour le mot "comprende", c'est que j'ai également étudié la langue d'espagnol.

Je suis bête. :smallsigh:.

Yo estudié español también. No tienes ninguna excusa.

If I keep this up, I'm going to have to start picking colors for my languages. :smallwink:

Greengiant
2009-04-26, 06:41 PM
Tell your DM, okay, we're all deciding to be "The Brothers Of Destruction" a easily pissed off group of Human Barbarians, intent on ruling a barbarian horde, and eventually destroying the main establishment, implementing barbarian law and destroying everyone that opposes us.

Nothing destroys a plot line like characters that randomly slaughter innocents.

TaintedLight
2009-04-26, 06:45 PM
Martial adepts and binders are certainly ahead of the curve at level 1, but I would still put them as "don't suck as much as most", rather than "not suck". And what vestige were you thinking of using, TaintedLight? IIRC, all of the ones available at level 1 require you to get a little too close to the enemies for comfort.

I'd say Ronove greatly increases your survivability at 1st level, and taking Improved Binding allows you to bind Malphas and Savnok.

chiasaur11
2009-04-26, 06:47 PM
Tell your DM, okay, we're all deciding to be "The Brothers Of Destruction" a easily pissed off group of Human Barbarians, intent on ruling a barbarian horde, and eventually destroying the main establishment, implementing barbarian law and destroying everyone that opposes us.

Nothing destroys a plot line like characters that randomly slaughter innocents.

Better still. Have one sociopathic monster, one loose cannon vigilante based on Lobster Johnson (Because Lobster Johnson is awesome, obviously.) and at least one pacifist.

As bad as a band of marauding maniacs is, a group totally (planned from the start) against itself is even better.

InaVegt
2009-04-26, 07:03 PM
I'd suggest a warblade, with the following build.

Feats:
Two weapon fighting
Martial study (Burning Blade)

Maneuvers:
Burning Blade (through martial study)
Moment of perfect mind
Charging minotaur
<something>

Stance:
Punishing stance

Equipment:

Battleaxe
Handaxe
Chainshirt

Action plan:

Assuming a strength of 16,

You have a +2 to hit, which isn't perfect, but managable. You should have punishing stance active (hurting your AC, but you can't have everything)

Switch between activating Burning Blade and getting your maneuvers back every turn.

On a burning blade turn, your attacks will deal 1d8+2d6+3/3d6+3 damage, on a non burning blade turn, it's 1d8+1d6+3/2d6+3.

Assuming an enemy with AC 15 and a flanking buddy, it's an average of 15.75 damage/turn (including missing, excluding critical hits).

If/when you level, pick up a level of rogue, to add an additional d6 to each attack.

Sure, it's a reckless and offense oriented build, but it's got quite decent damage, for first level.

Nefreet
2009-04-26, 07:08 PM
Nothing destroys a plot line like characters that randomly slaughter innocents.

That's not our intent, either. It's not even a personal attack on the guy. We like him and enjoy hanging out with him.

But as a DM, he's a d6 short of a set of dice. Everything has to be epic, everything we do is pre-determined regardless of our actions, our story is already told, that sort of thing. He's practically living in his own world.

There's also going to be a 4th player that just whines repeatedly whenever a die rolls a one, or he misses in combat, or anyone else does anything better than him.

These two situations together are why we're looking for broken characters this time around. It's our best shot at fighting back at the "epic-ness" of everything and we might just drive the whiny guy insane.

Dixieboy
2009-04-26, 07:13 PM
Better still. Have one sociopathic monster, one loose cannon vigilante based on Lobster Johnson (Because Lobster Johnson is awesome, obviously.) and at least one pacifist.

Make that an apostle of peace :smallbiggrin:

Nefreet
2009-04-26, 07:18 PM
WOW, InaVegt, NICE! 15.75 has to be the meanest I've ever seen. We were just tossing around the idea of flaws, too, so we can probably notch that up even higher.

Any other ideas? We don't all want to be the same, that might raise suspicion. But one of us is definitely doing that combo.

Thanks again!

Olo Demonsbane
2009-04-26, 08:15 PM
I'll give my hand a shot at creating one:

Dragonfire Adept

Feats:
Entangling Exhalation
Ability Focus (breath weapon)
<something else>

Invocations:
Enduring Elements (I think thats the name)


At the start of the day:
You cast Enduring Elements on all of your allies.
Then you don your Full plate and Tower Sheild, which doesn't hinder you because you do not make very many skill checks and make absolutely no attack rolls.

Each turn in combat:
Standard: You breath an entagling exhalation on all of your enemies. This does 1d3 fire damage, and they must make a Reflex save (DC [Assuming 16 Con] 15) or be entangled, taking 1d6 fire damage each round
Move: Back up.
Free: Laugh at your enemies.

Godskook
2009-04-26, 08:28 PM
Read DM of the Rings and Darths and Droids. Do everything they do.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-04-26, 08:31 PM
I wouldn't call them broken per se, but binders can be quite powerful if played right at level 1.

Best human level 1 diplomancer, IMHO.
+4 ranks
+2 negotiator
+3 skill focus
That's +9 before stats, add Silver Tongue from Naberius to take 10 all the time and rush with no penalty...

BRC
2009-04-26, 08:40 PM
Make every character a Bard or Rouge with ranks in bluff, disguise, and Diplomacy. Rather than fighting your way through encounters, use stealth, cunning, and guile. Don't just fight the bandits, let yourselves get captured and then convince a bandit lieutenant to lead a Coup, causing the bandits to collapse Via infighting. Above all, Roleplay. If your DM dosn't see this coming, this will be worse than three Pun-Puns.

InaVegt
2009-04-26, 08:56 PM
Make every character a Bard or Rouge with ranks in bluff, disguise, and Diplomacy. Rather than fighting your way through encounters, use stealth, cunning, and guile. Don't just fight the bandits, let yourselves get captured and then convince a bandit lieutenant to lead a Coup, causing the bandits to collapse Via infighting. Above all, Roleplay. If your DM dosn't see this coming, this will be worse than three Pun-Puns.

Or be utterly ineffective as the DM randomly turns chaotic evil people unable to commit treason even though it'd be clearly beneficial.

Chronos
2009-04-26, 09:06 PM
I'm looking over the Incarnate right now. I am intrigued, I've never played one. What build is best IYO? Feats? Multiclassing?Ideally, you'd go with Azurin as your race. They're a subtype of human, and the fluff for them says that they can occasionally be born to normal human parents, so I don't know if your DM will allow them. If you want to do the 3d6 damage per round I mentioned, then you'll want the Expanded Soulmeld Capacity feat (a good choice that will serve you well through all 20 levels), and, if you're not Azurin, some incarnum feat (it doesn't much matter which one, at this point, since you're just using it for the extra point of essentia). Then, you shape Dissolving Spittle using your Expanded Capacity feat, and one other soulmeld of your choosing (I'd probably go with Lammasu Mantle, for the AC, at first level). Start combat with both of your points of essentia in Spittle, for 3d6. After your first attack, use a swift action to switch one point of essentia into your defensive soulmeld, then at the start of your second turn, use another swift action to shift it back into Spittle, before attacking. Keep your distance, of course, unless you're fighting something really good at charging.

kemmotar
2009-04-26, 09:08 PM
Or you could do something of the above and take a broken template...your race is still human and templates tend to be OP at level 1. Just be careful in picking one that will be good at higher levels too if you plan on playing the whole campaign.

Enlong
2009-04-26, 09:14 PM
Pun pun would still win

Infinite BaB HP and AC and all

Dm then grabs the character sheet and burns it.

"Your character never existed."

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-04-26, 09:23 PM
You can always use the Mystic variant Swordsage to great effect. Just be sure to hammer out the casting stat, and what the spell limitations are before the game.

Brainfart
2009-04-26, 10:29 PM
Dm then grabs the character sheet and burns it.

"Your character never existed."

He burns my sheet, I burn his face. :smallwink:

chiasaur11
2009-04-26, 10:36 PM
Dm then grabs the character sheet and burns it.

"Your character never existed."
Scan and upload, pal. Scan and upload.

Meatspace data is overrated.

Baalthazaq
2009-04-26, 10:41 PM
If you basically all want to play instigators, don't just go for power.

Kender Spellthief would be a good example if it weren't for the human restriction.

If he allows you to LA and you're only concerned with first level, just take a ridiculous template like ghost or vampire.

Myrmex
2009-04-26, 10:50 PM
I see this so often.

People these days just can't spell "druid" right.

Druids break at level 6, with access to MMIII and Natural Bond. Otherwise, they're just really, really, really good.


Can a Druid get a Fleshraker at level 1 with Natural Bond?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-04-27, 12:16 AM
Can a Druid get a Fleshraker at level 1 with Natural Bond?No. You're limited to a war-trained Riding Dog, due to the HD limitation of Natural Bond.

For breakability, Crusader and Tomb-Tainted Dread Necromancer are pretty nice at level 1. For breaking the campaign, Beguiler is sweet due to the interaction abilities. For wrecking the game, a VoP anything(probably Beguiler), building to Vow of Peace, is horribly Evil. Toss in a Psychotic Neutral Barbarian who kills anything and a Dread Necro whose goal is to steadily increase in power until he can conquor the world, and you've got a party.

Myrmex
2009-04-27, 12:26 AM
Make sure your VoP Beguiler takes Eschew Materials. And glibness at 6th level (4th with versatile spellcaster) means never having to tell the truth, ever.

Killer Angel
2009-04-27, 03:21 AM
Pun pun would still win

Infinite BaB HP and AC and all

"Did you really think to be the first to have devised such loop? Sorry, the Great God Pun-Pun, eons ago, thanks to his overhelming epic magic power, has wished the limits to the "infinity" of following pun-pun".

A DM, if wants to, ALWAYS win. But this is no more D&D.

Haven
2009-04-27, 03:51 AM
That's not our intent, either. It's not even a personal attack on the guy. We like him and enjoy hanging out with him.

But as a DM, he's a d6 short of a set of dice. Everything has to be epic, everything we do is pre-determined regardless of our actions, our story is already told, that sort of thing. He's practically living in his own world.


Ah, okay, one of those types.

I suggest having a Psion in your group, because being able to use your powers even while bound, gagged and naked (um, except for the rope) will definitely throw a monkey wrench in developments that might be out of your control otherwise.

grautry
2009-04-27, 04:07 AM
Um, are you going to be ONLY playing at level 1?

Because if no, then it's kind of pointless to only focus on that level and that level only, you'll simply pass up too many opportunities.

Assuming that you're going to be playing more than level 1, choose Artificer, Archivist, Cleric, Wizard or Druid. For your skill monkey choose Factotum.

I'd recommend a Wizard/Cleric/Druid/Factotum spread. This way you have all the traditional roles covered - so the party looks rather innocent, while everyone is actually an overpowered monster(well, the Factotum is a bit weaker than others but still a tremendously powerful class). Focus on Divine Metamagic with the Cleric(remember to get nightsticks and Persistent spell!), read Logic Ninja's Batman Guide for the Wizard - and choose some overpowered prestige class like an Incantatrix or IotSV(remember to load up on the BROKEN BROKEN spells category). For Factotum get loads of Fonts of Inspiration - but otherwise they're plenty good right out of the box. Same with Druid, just remember to get Natural Spell.

I don't recommend an Archivist or an Artificer because they require quite a bit of optimization-fu to get to the REALLY monstrously overpowered levels.

Since there's 3 of you, I recommend going with Druid/Cleric/Wizard and asking the whiny guy to take the role of the skillmonkey.

Read the Handbooks on Char Op boards(just google "<Class name> Handbook" in google) for more advice.

And that's it, you're good to go.

magellan
2009-04-27, 04:39 AM
Pun pun would still win

Infinite BaB HP and AC and all

"Can i take a look at your character sheet?" *Tear* "Punpun evaporates into tiny pieces of papers filled with words about some rules i couldn't care less for"

Look! I defeated punpun! do i get XP for that? :P

Tempest Fennac
2009-04-27, 04:59 AM
Why does he have those restrictions? Humans are one of my least favourite races and I always start at whatever the lowest starting age is due to seeing no point in starting later then that, so I personally wouldn't want to play if he was DMing. (I think I remember someone who was DMing saying they always start games like that due to wanting the characters to have started off knowing each other, or something like that.)

Talic
2009-04-27, 05:03 AM
There's a link for the Arena in my post. Level 1, play by post, PvP.

Provided your campaign is 3.5, then some of the combatants in the Waiting room's front page listing should do nicely.

Some examples include:
* Characters that can Fell drain 4 spells per day.
* Characters wielding 4 weapons at once.
* Characters able to prevent the first 80 or so damage they take.
* Combat Controllers capable of Tripping, grappling, and dealing damage... on a single attack action or AoO.
* Characters capable of slowing their opponents with breath weapons that damage and entangle.
* Characters able to do up to 80 damage per hit.
* and more!

That said, flaunting your power will end badly. Play it subtle.

If you really wanna go for broke, do a google search for "Killer Gnome Illusionist".

The most flexible? Killer Gnome.
The most build flexible/growth potential? Combat Controller (Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 with Imp Unarmed Strike/Imp Grapple/Scorpion's Grasp). Can build into a combat controller (Guisarme, add combat reflexes, go from there), Charger, even a shadowpouncer, with decent stats.
Least likely to get by character approval? Fell Drainer.

Fishy
2009-04-27, 05:39 AM
Hmm. Human Wilder, with Illithid Heritage and Illithid Compulsion as his feats, both from Complete Psionic. Take Disable as your power, and you can fire them off at ML 3 for 2pp. If you have 18 CHA, that's the power to say 'No' to 6HD worth of bad guys, twice a day.

Of course, 'sufficiently epic' NPCs are able to shrug it off with no ill effects whatsoever, which is probably a bad thing.

monty
2009-04-27, 12:01 PM
For Factotum get loads of Fonts of Inspiration - but otherwise they're plenty good right out of the box.

I disagree with this. That's only a really good strategy for breaking combat with piles of extra actions, but as a primary skillmonkey, you shouldn't bother with breaking combat - that's what the other three are for. You need to break everything outside of combat, where Inspiration doesn't matter nearly as much.

Nefreet
2009-04-27, 12:05 PM
Why does he have those restrictions?

Again, it's not the restrictions that matter here. I also DM, and there have been times I've used restrictions, too. Generally it's just limiting the books to the big 3 and a couple others, rather than having free range of them all. But in my world's history for a point there were almost no dwarves or drow, so for that game in particular, you couldn't play a dwarf or a drow. Some restrictions make sense. Ideally, they should make sense, at least ICly.

But yeah, his plan is to start us all out human, age 18, in the same village, just so we know each other IC and don't have to worry about subterfuge. I think the suggestions here have been great. We're going to go with a druid, a warblade, and a spiked-chain-wielding trip-happy fighter. The 4th person, the whiny guy, volunteered to play healer, so probably cleric.

And we're not planning on advancing too far in this game. It probably won't last longer than maybe 3 sessions, so maybe one level up at the most, and probably not even that.

Thanks everybody for your help! If there's any other suggestions we'll consider them, too. The game starts I think Saturday.

Tempest Fennac
2009-04-27, 12:17 PM
Thanks for clarifying (I know the restrictions weren't a problem, but I was curious about why he had them; I only ban halfbreeds while trying to nerf things with HDs and LA down to LA 0 while allowing pretty much everything so I find a lot of restrictions to be odd). By the way, Crusader could be a good pick for the healer if he didn't want to be a Cleric or other spellcaster.

chiasaur11
2009-04-27, 12:25 PM
Again, it's not the restrictions that matter here. I also DM, and there have been times I've used restrictions, too. Generally it's just limiting the books to the big 3 and a couple others, rather than having free range of them all. But in my world's history for a point there were almost no dwarves or drow, so for that game in particular, you couldn't play a dwarf or a drow. Some restrictions make sense. Ideally, they should make sense, at least ICly.

But yeah, his plan is to start us all out human, age 18, in the same village, just so we know each other IC and don't have to worry about subterfuge. I think the suggestions here have been great. We're going to go with a druid, a warblade, and a spiked-chain-wielding trip-happy fighter. The 4th person, the whiny guy, volunteered to play healer, so probably cleric.

And we're not planning on advancing too far in this game. It probably won't last longer than maybe 3 sessions, so maybe one level up at the most, and probably not even that.

Thanks everybody for your help! If there's any other suggestions we'll consider them, too. The game starts I think Saturday.

That's why I suggested the Lobster Johnson, Ghandi, Jack the Ripper group.

Just because you're all humans from the same town doesn't mean you like each other.