PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Transmuter, more then meets the eye.



oxybe
2009-04-27, 05:12 PM
our adventures have been getting increasingly more dangerous so i decided to have a backup PC at the ready, a transmuter. the caster i'm working on is an older adventurer who's seen his share of troubles and is not one to shy away from doing what needs to be done. he's lived a bit over 200 years (gray elf) and is currently struck by his third bout of wanderlust.

his wanderlust and inability to stay in one place for some time has pretty much gotten him scorned by his community and looks forward to the time he can spend away from them (though it is nice knowing he has a bed he can go back to).

needless to say, he's pretty different from my current PC who could be summed up with "magical, sociopathic hobo with pet monkey" :smallbiggrin: .

in combat this PC's methodology in that once he's felt out his enemy, (through Knowledge checks or a lower level spell) he knows if he can go strait for the kill with frightening precision, either by petrifying them, holding them down somehow or debuffing them to the point of uselessness.

out of combat, he's a little bit more easy-going. and uses his transmutation, illusions & enchantments to solve most of his problems.

i've read up on our "logic ninja" & the "playing god" in the WotC forums

Middle Age Gray Elf Transmuter 3 / Master Specialist 4 / Fatespinner 5 (level 12)
barred schools : Evocation, Necromancy

stats (32 pt buy)
str 6 (1 pts, -2 race, -1 age)
dex 12 (3 pts, +2 race, -1 age)
con 12 (8 pts, -2 race, -1 age)
int 30 (16 pts, +2 race, +1 age, +3 levels, +6 enchant)
wis 12 (3 pts, +1 age)
cha 10 (1 pts, +1 age)

skills
enough for the prereqs and at least 1 per knowledge, max out Spellcraft & Concentration. i'm also fooling around with maybe taking disguise as a CC skill as a lot of self-transmutations give me a disguise bonus, should i try to hide myself in a crowd.

feats
1 - Spell Focus (Transmutation)
3 - Spell Focus (Enchantment)
6 - Spell Penetration
9 - Greater Spell Penetration
12 - Arcane Mastery
W1 - Scribe Scroll
Ms1 - Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
Ms2 - Greater Spell Focus (Transmutation)

basic progression lets me cast like an 11th level wizard

Spellbook
level 1 (spells marked with "I" are due to high int)
-Protect from "X"
-grease
-unseen servant
-identify
-true strike
I -Disguise Self
I -Feather Fall
I -Expeditious Retreat
I -Charm Person
I -Silent Image

level 2
-Rope Trick
-Glitterdust
-Invisibility
-Tasha's Hideous Laughter

level 3 ("S" gained from a scroll)
-Haste
-Dispel Magic
-Greater Magic Weapon
-Hold Person
S -Phantom Steed
S -Alter Self

level 4
-Greater Invisibility
-Dimension Door
-Stone Shape
-Polymorph

level 5
-Overland Flight
-Baleful Polymorph
-Teleport
-Wall of Stone

level 6
-Greater Dispel Magic
-Flesh to stone

Spell Slots : 4/7+1/7+1/6+1/5+1/4+1/3+1
level 0
-Detect Magic x2
-Read Magic
-Prestidigitation

level 1
-Protection from "X" x2
-Grease x2
-Silent Image x2
-Charm Person
B -Feather Fall

level 2
-Glitterdust x2
-Invisibility x3
-Tasha's Hideous Laughter x2
B -Rope Trick

level 3
-Dispel Magic x1
-Greater Magic Weapon x2
-Hold Person x2
-Haste x1
B -Haste

level 4
-Greater Invisibility x2
-Dimention Door x2
-Stone Shape x1
B -Polymorph

level 5
-Overland Flight x1
-Teleport x1
-Wall of Stone x1
-Baleful Polymorph x1
B -Baleful Polymorph

level 6
-Greater Dispel Magic x2
-Flesh to Stone x1
B -Flesh to Stone

spell DC : 20/21/22 +spell level (other/ench/trans)
can automatically beat SR of 26 (Clvl 12 [11+item] + 4 GrtrSplPen + 10 ArcMas)

basic tactic is to batman until you know you can one-shot the enemy. a "full powered" Flesh to Stone is at DC 33 and the enemy has a -10 to his save roll (DC 32 if you're using Baleful Polymorph). should he roll a 20, i've got the ability to force a reroll from him.

my travel spell of choice is Phantom Jet, er... Steed... at a move speed of 240 i can get it AND overland flight. why? the steed is a faster mode of transportation and it is pretty weak so if it dies i have my backup flight. should that also be removed, i still have feather fall & teleport.

Disguise self + alter self are used to "hide" in a crowd, giving me a +20 disguise bonus. polymorph can be used to duplicate animal forms but i'd rather keep it for a more "oh snap" situation.

Stone Shape + Wall of stone/flesh to stone = fun. nothing says "I mean business, but i'm laid back" like saying: "do you like this lawn ornament? it used to be your boss."

i don't have much when it comes to "anti-golem" but a DC 21 grease should stop most of them dead in their tracks, moreso if i buff the fightery-types with GMW.

items of note:
headband of int +6 : 36000 gp
ring of arcane might : 20000 gp
scroll of phantom steed +$ to copy in spellbook: 525 gp
scroll of alter self +$ to copy in spellbook: 525 gp
30950 gp left over for wands/staves and other scrolls (to expand my repetoire), what's found in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110017) thread, ect...

any ideas on what i can do to improve this fellow?

Gorbash
2009-04-27, 05:44 PM
Well, it looks really neat, except that you don't really need Spell Focus (Enchantment). It's not that useful as a school, since every mindless creature is immune and also you'll soon be into levels where Mind Blank won't be that uncommon.

So, I'd suggest banning Enchantment in favor of Necromancy, since Necromancy is debuffing paradise (if only for the Waves of Exhaustion).

Fifth level of Fatespinner is not worth it, since foes that have as many HD as you are aren't really a threat to you, so I recommend you drop it in favor of something else.

Other than that, since you're obivously into boosting CL for bypassing SR, you should use the spell Create Magic Tattoo, to boost your CL by additional 1. You're eglibile for that one because if you listen to my advice you'll be CL 12 + 1 from Ring of Arcane Might and you need CL 13 to cast it.

Alas, your choice of spells isn't really that good.

Don't prepare so many spells twice, that makes you look like a sorcerer! Buy some Pearls of Power for lvls 1-3 and you're set. Dimension Door has a little brother, its name is Benign Transposition and it's just as useful. You're killing your versatility by preparing 2 spells for 4 6th lvl slots. Those should be battle winners not moderately useful spells. Why would you need both 2 Greater Dispels and a regular one? 3 Invisibilities? Really? Just buy a wand!
Also, you're lacking serious wizard spells like Web, Evard's Black Tentacles, Solid Fog, Freezing Fog, Mass Fly, Mirror Image, Nerveskitter etc. Read Treantmonk's Being God more carefuly.

In order to save up gold, buy a Boccob's Blessed Book and learn spells by scribing them from other spellbooks (50xspell lvl, way cheaper than scrolls). Don't buy Staves. Ever.

Also, ditch Overland Flight in place of Phantom Steed since at CL 12 it has Air Walk at will. Don't prepare Teleport on regular basis since you can't cast it in combat because you all need to hold hands. Learn Gemjump instead. Orbs are also useful, No Save No SR is sure nice to have around.

Here's my 12th lvl Transmuter, you might find it a useful read:

Gnome Transmuter 7 / Earth Dreamer 5

Str 11
Dex 14
Con 18
Int 27
Wis 13
Cha 13

Feats:

1. Spell Focus (Conjuration)
3. Earth Sense (Prerequsite for Earth Dreamer)
5. Spell Focus (Transmutation) (Bonus Wizard feat instead of metamagic feat, by DM's approval)
6. Greater Spell Focus (Transmutation)
9. Keen Intellect
12. Skill Focus (Spellcraft) (Prerequisite for Archmage)
+
Scribe Scroll (free)
Alertness (familiar)

Skills: Maxed out Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana, Nature, Religion, Planes), Spellcraft and 5 ranks in Listen.

Saves (Greater Resistance included):
Fort +15
Ref +8
Will +20

Items:
Heward's Handy Haversack, Headband of Intellect +6, Boccob's Blessed Book, Amulet of Health +2, Ring of Counterspells, Lesser Rod of Silent Spell, Leser Rod of Extend Spell, Tunic of Steady Spellcasting, Goggles of Minute Seeing, Pearl of Power I.

Spells:

1st: Benign Transposition, Enlarge Person, Grease, Nerveskitter, Ray of Enfeeblement, Protection from Evil, Wall of Smoke

2nd: False Life, Glitterdust x2, Heart of Air, See Invisibility, Web, Fog Cloud

3rd: Dispel Magic, Greater Resistance, Haste, Melf's Unicorn Arrow, Phantom Steed, Slow, Anticipate Teleportation

4th: Call of Stone, Crushing Grip, Evard's Black Tentacles, Hearth of Earth, Fear, Solid Fog

5th: Channeled Lifetheft, Flesh to Ice, Mass Fly, Lighting Leap, Wall of Stone

6th: Disintegrate, Fleshiver, Freezing Fog, Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability

Items: Heward's Handy Haversack, Headband of Intellect +6, Boccob's Blessed Book, Amulet of Health +2, Ring of Counterspells, Lesser Rod of Silent Spell, Lesser Rod of Extend Spell, Tunic of Steady Spellcasting, Goggles of Minute Seeing, Pearl of Power I.

oxybe
2009-04-29, 03:17 PM
the spell focus (enchantment) is to meet the prereqs for Archmage. i would normally drop enchantment for necromancy, but we currently lack a real party face (our bard has "retired" in favor for a blaster-caster), so mind manipulation will probably be needed at some point.

i doubled up a lot of spells as this is a new character, so i have yet to have the luck of plundering an enemy spellbook (moreso since our GM rarely uses wizards as enemies) to learn extra spells from, thus the only "4 spell per level" thing and having to buy scrolls and scribe from them. i don't mind dropping a spell for nerveskitter and i noticed that i did forget that i do get an extra bonus 3rd level spell or lower for master specialist lvl2 and if i take the 5th level of master specialist @12 (instead of fatespinner 5) i can get an extra 6th level spell or lower. this would allow me to grab web & mass fly as bonus learned spells.

the extra 2 spells gained by the 5th level is of MS instead of FS would probably be Gemjump & freezing fog. were i to drop overland flight, i would replace it with break enchantment and teleport with Dominate person. our only other arcane spellcaster is a blaster/artillery-mage.

gemjump looks iffy to me but i'll try it out. we don't have a single town as base of operations yet so having one gem that i keep underground/floorboard or just outside city limits is risky (unless i prep a whole bunch of them and keep 2 or 3 with me at all times).

modified Spellbook & spell list (how do we put things between the hidden spoiler block things?)
level 1 (spells marked with "I" are due to high int)
-Protect from "X"
-grease
-unseen servant
-identify
-true strike
I -Disguise Self
I -Feather Fall
I -Expeditious Retreat
I -Charm Person
I -Nerveskitter

level 2
-Web
-Glitterdust
-Invisibility
-Tasha's Hideous Laughter
S -Alter Self
Expanded Spellbook -Rope Trick

level 3 ("S" gained from a scroll)
-Haste
-Dispel Magic
-Greater Magic Weapon
-Hold Person
S -Phantom Steed

level 4
-Greater Invisibility
-Spell Enhancer
-Stone Shape
-Polymorph

level 5
-Baleful Polymorph
-Dominate Person
-Wall of Stone
-Mass Fly
expanded spellbook -Telekinesis

level 6
-Greater Dispel Magic
-Flesh to stone
-Gemjump
-Freezing Fog

Spell Slots : 4/7+1/7+1/6+1/5+1/5+1/4+1
level 0
-Detect Magic x2
-Read Magic
-Prestidigitation

level 1
-Protection from "X" x1
-Grease x1
-Nerveskitter x2
-Unseen Servant x1
-Disguise Self x1
-Charm Person x1
B -Feather Fall

level 2
-Glitterdust x2
-Invisibility x1
-web x1
-alter self x2
-Tasha's Hideous Laughter x1
B -Rope Trick

level 3
-Dispel Magic x1
-Greater Magic Weapon x1
-Hold Person x2
-Phantom Steed x1
-Haste x1
B -Haste

level 4
-Greater Invisibility x1
-spell enhancer x2
-Stone Shape x1
B -Polymorph

level 5
-Telekinesis x1
-Dominate Person x1
-Wall of Stone x2
-Baleful Polymorph x1
B -Mass Fly

level 6
-Greater Dispel Magic x2
-Freezing Fog x1
-Gemjump/Flesh to Stone x1
B -Flesh to Stone

Gorbash
2009-04-29, 05:07 PM
the spell focus (enchantment) is to meet the prereqs for Archmage. i would normally drop enchantment for necromancy, but we currently lack a real party face (our bard has "retired" in favor for a blaster-caster), so mind manipulation will probably be needed at some point.

Voice of the Dragon + Eagle's Splendor gives you a +12 on relevant social checks, as well one use of Suggestion, that's all you need and don't need to waste a feat and drop one of the best schools in favor of a lousy one. Spell Focus Conjuration and Transmutation is the usualy best way to go for Archmage.


thus the only "4 spell per level" thing and having to buy scrolls and scribe from them.

That's what I'm trying to tell you - no, you don't. PHB states that spells can be learned from other wizard's spellbooks who pay for that privilege 50gp x spell level, that's way cheaper than scrolls. By this level you should have about 80 spells in your spellbook. Buy a Boccob's Blessed Book and pay the measily 50gp/lvl and put as much as you need.


i doubled up a lot of spells as this is a new character

Then don't double spells that you prepare greater versions of it. Why would you need both invisibility and greater invisibility? Or Alter Self and Polymorph?

arguskos
2009-04-29, 05:14 PM
Or Alter Self and Polymorph?
Cause sometimes you need to just look like something else, not turn into a hydra. :smalltongue:

Gorbash
2009-04-29, 05:22 PM
Yes, *sometimes*. Not every day. You prepare it once you need it, infiltration isn't something you do every day.

And turning yourself into a Hydra is pointless, unless you have a ton of other buffs to go with it.

arguskos
2009-04-29, 05:34 PM
Yes, *sometimes*. Not every day. You prepare it once you need it, infiltration isn't something you do every day.

And turning yourself into a Hydra is pointless, unless you have a ton of other buffs to go with it.
1. Joke, that was a joke to make my point. You're too serious Gorbash.

2. Hydra was just a random choice I picked. Man, you ARE too serious. Take stuff a bit more lightly dude.

3. Yes, that's fair. You won't need it everyday, but you also don't know what you'll need every day, so it's not a waste. Besides, Alter Self on a humanoid can give you FLIGHT (Raptoran), so it's not exactly a wasted slot or anything.

Gorbash
2009-04-29, 07:23 PM
Man asked for advice, not for jokes...

He'd be better off preparing Create Magic Tatoo and giving himself +1 CL, which would, in combination with Ring of Arcane Might give him CL 14 which would give him a Phantom Steed that has 240 fly speed.

Fizban
2009-04-29, 08:13 PM
I'd suggest not filling all your slots in the morning: you can fill 1/4 of your slots in just the minimum 15 minutes of prep time whenever you need to, so leave 1 or 2 slots at each level open. Prepare and cast your all day buffs and enough spells to be ready for one or two fights and leave the rest open for when you know what you're facing. If you really need to double up then, do so, but there's no reason at all to double up on "maybe" spells unless you've got bad guys breaking down the door while you read.

Here's a link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#addingSpellstoaWizardsSpellbook) to the rule for copying spells if you need it. It's a core rule, and is one of the reasons wizards win at everything. They could do it at scroll price or even with just the 2/level, but at only 50gp/level core, there's no reason not to know one of everything you could need.

On Phantom Steed: yes, it has a 240' fly speed, but only at average maneuverability. That means no hovering or flying straight up, and as a large creature it's going to need a lot of space to circle. Outside it is far superior to any other flight spell at CL12, but inside Fly, Overland Flight, or even Wings of the Dragon (100' avg, but you're still medium) wins.

The thing about gemjump is that there's nothing stopping you from casting it as many times as you have foci for it: you could have a whole book of command words for present destinations (with backups in case you don't have time to replace them after arriving). It doesn't stop you from having to hold hands to teleport the group, but as a standard action command word, it doesn't provoke an AoO to activate, which is awesome by itself. Bring a few extra precast foci with you and drop some checkpoint markers as you march through the dungeon so you can get back easy.

I'll second Voice of the Dragon. The only spell with a higher social check bonus that I know of is Glibness, and it even gives you a free suggestion. Also seconded on not taking the final level of Fatespinner, for the same reasons cited: nothing worth hitting with a save or die will be vulnerable to the ability, and thou shalt not lose caster levels.

While you don't want to buy staves, you do want to buy runestaves (or rather, a runestaff, as you can only use one at a time), as they give you spontaneous ability without needing prep time. Combined with a couple pearls of power, you can work a lot of options out of one spell slot without touching the others.

On Alter Self: it's a perfectly good flight/AC buff to be used independently of Polymorph. If I were going to polymorph for combat I'd actually probably go for the polymorph subschool'd Trollshape, for extra temporary hp and regeneration so I wouldn't die when those ran out. Lesser Dragonshape at 6th is also quite decent, with more temp. hp and and Adult body to work with. Cast a Bite of the WereX first on top of your other buffs and it's nasty (the 'shape is a swift action, yay!). I also recommend Heart of Earth: it's basically stoneskin for 1 round/level, minus the expensive component and with a swift action casting time. In fact, I just got an idea for a custom runestaff of all three for when when the boop hits the fan...

There's tons of other awesome spells, but I'm not going near trying to list them. I'm sure you'll get plenty of responses if you ask for a spell for a particular situation, so let us know when you need something :smallwink:

Godskook
2009-04-29, 09:16 PM
1.If you plan on leaving wizard before level 5, I believe the advice is to ditch scribe scroll in favor of a fighter bonus feat(UA), with the preference being Improved Initiative.

2.Look into your options for subbing out the familiar, you can:
Enhance an attribute 1/day +1/5 wizard levels(UA).
Gain exotic movements(climb, fly, swim) int/day(PH2)
Allow a spellcraft check to avoid wasting spells that are negated by SR(DR348)

3.If you really like having a familiar, use the feat Obtain Familiar. Your familiar will thank you for it(CA) or argue that class familiars should work this way too, instead of not.

oxybe
2009-04-30, 12:05 AM
That's what I'm trying to tell you - no, you don't. PHB states that spells can be learned from other wizard's spellbooks who pay for that privilege 50gp x spell level, that's way cheaper than scrolls. By this level you should have about 80 spells in your spellbook. Buy a Boccob's Blessed Book and pay the measily 50gp/lvl and put as much as you need.

for the extra spells "purchased" i really don't know how many my GM would let me have. in a vacuum where every caster has access to every other caster and their spells, yes, but i'm going strait via PHB unless my GM can tell me otherwise, mainly because though i can theoretically buy it doesn't mean it's openly available.

i have to find a wizard that has the spell then convince him to let me copy it, even if i did so in my background i need to know how many he (the DM) is willing to let me get first as the PHB states that other wizards may flat out deny the opportunity to do so, so i'm assuming the base minimum (4 spells per level) and hoping for the best. i going to fire him off an email asking about getting those extra spells once i figure out which ones are "needed" and which ones are gravy.

on various polymorph-type spells:
i probably won't be using them in combat and more as problem solving tools. the standard PHB polymorph ones will work fine for utility purposes as i'm also trying not to break the game in half. we've noticed a few spells that we've had issues with (polymorph and evard's black tentacles as examples) and i'm willing to drop them if the GM asks me to without much fuss. they are classics but also classic troublemakers too. we've been playing this campaign for over a year and i'd hate to throw a wrench in the gears at this point

Substitutions:
if anything i'd drop the familiar for the PHB2 variant, as having instant-use alternate movement methods is pretty nice and i really never cared much for the familiar feature.

Fizban
2009-04-30, 03:16 AM
for the extra spells "purchased" i really don't know how many my GM would let me have. in a vacuum where every caster has access to every other caster and their spells, yes, but i'm going strait via PHB unless my GM can tell me otherwise, mainly because though i can theoretically buy it doesn't mean it's openly available.

But... it's a PHB rule. You buy spells just like any other gear. While it's perfectly reasonable for the DM to restrict what gear you have access to, that's not the default.

I'd actually suggest holding onto the familiar. By this level you should have all the movement you need, and Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability is basically "spend a 6th level slot to quicken 3 other spells that I couldn't quicken even if I had the feat."

Godskook
2009-04-30, 03:37 AM
Also, why aren't you using a focused specialist? For the low price of barring one additional school, you gain 1 additional slot per spell level.

Who_Da_Halfling
2009-04-30, 03:40 AM
But... it's a PHB rule. You buy spells just like any other gear. While it's perfectly reasonable for the DM to restrict what gear you have access to, that's not the default.

I'd actually suggest holding onto the familiar. By this level you should have all the movement you need, and Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability is basically "spend a 6th level slot to quicken 3 other spells that I couldn't quicken even if I had the feat."

At 12th level, you could have a pretty decent Dragon Familiar from the Draconomicon, if that's available. Doesn't really grant you anything special...other than being able to channel touch spells through your wyrmling dragon. Admittedly, this is less useful against CR-appropriate opponents, but still plausible (and really cool).

-JM

kpenguin
2009-04-30, 03:49 AM
Transmuter! More than meets the eye!
Magic elves wage their battle to destroy the evil forces of the orcish horde!
Transmuter! Wizards in disguise!
Transmuter! More than meets the eye!
Transmuter!

Anyway, about your wizard's wanderlust... why would the community scorn him? Elves generally encourage wanderlust.

Gorbash
2009-04-30, 05:16 AM
for the extra spells "purchased" i really don't know how many my GM would let me have.

Well, that's just silly. Why wouldn't he? Does he allow a fighter to have a good magical weapon? While I understand that he wouldn't allow you to have 200+ hundred spells, leaving you with with only 34 spells is severely damaging the point of a Wizard. And if you played that character from beginning you would have had at least double that number.

As someone said, it's a PHB rule. And it doesn't make any sense that a mid-lvl wizard *wouldn't* have as many spells in his spellbook as he needs.

I have 74 spells at lvl 12, and that's after I threw out some I never use.

RMS Oceanic
2009-04-30, 05:38 AM
I know Transmuters aren't usually the damage dealing guy in the party, but I strongly recommend you pick up Disintegrate, mainly because of the huge amount of damage you can do with it on a failed save. Sometimes throwing d6's at the bad guy is the right answer.