View Full Version : Wizard Help Humbly Requested.

2009-04-27, 05:52 PM

2009-04-27, 06:37 PM
Holla all, and cel-e-brate!
Treant's here to ed-u-cate! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=968899)

EDIT: Ok, let's see.

You're trying to match a barbarian, so don't optimize too hard here. You'll be pulling ahead shortly, and pulling ahead by a lot. I assume you know damage is suboptimal? Not that I'm telling you to not do it - explosions are fun.

Jade Phoenix Mage is primarily for gishes - do you have the stats for hitting things? You will also lose caster levels, making you a bit less powerful. If you want swords with your explosions, this PrC is great - if you just want to cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down, consider a different choice.

I'll try to think of some PrC's to reccomend.

2009-04-27, 06:48 PM
Playing an Evoker isn't the best option; enemies who can't attack are less of a threat than enemies who are at 50% life. Common Wisdom is that Batman Wizards are generally better: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002

Anyhoo, trying to beat the Barbarian isn't really going to be effective for a few different reasons. One is that he can do 15-20 points of damage all the time while Wizards only have a couple of spells before they have to take a nap. Another reason is that it's a group effort; instead of blasting you could give him Bull's Strength, Magic Weapon, and Enlarge, which would bump up total damage more than just you blasting. That being said, it is completely possible to be an Evoker, though Sorcerers tend to do it better because they have more spells per day and get access to Wings of Force (I think that's the name).

Taking Arcane Thesis from PH2 is a good start for an Evoker. Fireball or Scorching Ray is going to be your most cast spell and Metamagic can make it do nice damage. If you can convince your DM to add in Complete Mage, it has Metamagic School Focus.

2009-04-27, 06:52 PM
Regardless of how effective it is, a blaster wizard is usually a bad idea because it steps on the toes of the rogue and fighter - beating up the enemies is their job. You have better things to do.

That said, if you really want to be good at direct damage, Conjuration does it better anyway.

2009-04-27, 10:37 PM
If you want to be able to beat people up and deal damage(as your Evoker and JPM comments imply) might I recommend the Duskblade(PHBII)? You just hit one of it's break points in power. It's an Evocation-focused Gish, and vewwy nice from about 3-10.

2009-04-28, 02:49 AM
I've got two things to say to you, dude: Reduced metamagic cost, and orbs. Lot's of friggin' orbs.

The orb spells are cheap, decent spells for starters, and because of the low level, they're great for stacking metamagic.

And there is tons of ways you can reduce the level added by metamagic. Metamagic School Focus from Complete Mage is a good start.
Using Residual Magic could give you a boost, literally giving you two castings of Max'ed Fireball for the price of one.

And that's just some of the options around. Have fun looking!

Edit: Also, get metamagic rods! That's free metamagic right of the bat.

2009-04-28, 04:28 AM
If you are set on bieng an invoker.

As someone else mentioned orb spells and metamagic rods. Honestly as a blaster wizards lack unless they go nova...(for the most part).

You MIGHT want to check out the....gnomish illusion build. That gets pretty nasty.

If you just want to play a wizard (and not nessesarly an evoker). Read Logicninja's guide on bieng batman.

Wizards are very strong at buffing and controlling the battlespace.

2009-04-28, 04:51 AM
Try focusing on battlefield control. A single casting of Kelgore's Gravemist (Sor/Wiz 2; PHB2 iirc) can turn the tide of battle quite early on in the game and later on you have Spiritwall, Solid Fog etc etc to limit the battlefield for your liking.

2009-04-28, 06:24 AM
Well it would appear as though I made a bad choice for picking a school, but I doubt I'll be able to change it. That said, I can still get other spells just they won't be as effective or as many.

I'll check out the batman and evoke guide. Unfortunately my character is already made, AND our group doesn't use the duskblade, I don't have a Complete Mage, and can't find one online.

So Looks like I'll check out the conjuration school, and illusion, as well as my evoke.

2009-04-28, 10:13 AM
One word:

It's a prestige class from Player's Guide to Faerun and enables blasting like no other - level 10 ability reduces all Metamagic costs by 1 and before that, you gain a bunch of abilities and bonus metamagic feats. A decent second alternative is Recaster [Races of Eberron], however it'd Changeling-only.

But yea, if you want to deal damage, metamagic reducers. Especially Arcane Thesis [PHBII] (you need to focus on one spell for it to work; if you want to be an Evoker, I suggest Scorching Ray), and then pile metamagic on that spell (good ones: Empower Spell, Split Ray [CArc], Energy Admixture [CArc], Searing Spell [Sandstorm], Twin Spell [CArc], Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, Fell Draining [Libris Mortis] off the top of my head). Elven Spell Lore [PHBII], Energy Substitution [CArc] and such should allow you to get past most energy type issues.

Practical Metamagic [Races of the Dragon], Easy Metamagic [Dragon Magazine] and maybe Metamagic School Focus [Complete Mage] help with mitigating the level adjustment costs.

But yeah, a Wizard can deal a lot of damage. That's not usually done though as it takes a lot of effort you could be using in a much more constructive manner, and it steals the spotlight from the other characters as a standard Wizard only disables the opponents making it easier for your pals to kill 'em, but a Boom Boom™ Wizard just kills them all leaving nothing for the other characters. In other words, a Wizard focused on disabling is better in both, efficiency and party friendliness. But if your pals won't mind, dealing damage works too as long as you put your mind into it.

The sources do generate a problem, as most of the true blasting options are outside those. I'd frankly just go Arcane Thesis with those.

2009-04-28, 11:38 AM
You could try and use the retraining options in PHBII; switch from Evocation to another school and/or go Focused Specialist if you aren't (and go into Inchantrix if you can, though it sounds like you can't). I'd drop Evocation, and two of Illusion/Enchantment/Necromancy (unless you have another dispeller, then you can drop Abjuration). Then use Arcane Thesis + Inchantrix to cheese out the metamagic on an Orb spell.

The wording of both Arcane Thesis and errata means you can drop the metamagic cost below 0 (though not overall, just for an individual metamagic), so you can do things like Energy Substitution + Lord of the Uttercold to get -2 to the spell level for free extra metamagic. Focused Specialist means you'll end up with plenty of spell slots, so you can have an Orb of every level.

Make sure your DM allows Split Ray to be used on Orbs; mechanically there's no difference but fluffwise there is. If you do stay Evoker, go with Scorching Ray, and if I recall correctly Split Ray isn't worth it compared to other metamagic.

If you can get a hold of Complete Mage, get Residual Metamagic; cast an Energy-Subbed Lord-of-the-Uttercold Maximized Split Ray Orb at 5th level (without Arcane Thesis it would be 9th level), and the next round you can Maximize or Split an unaltered one without the higher spell level. Also, look into Enervate Spell or Energize Spell from Libris Mortis. 50% more damage to living and less to undead, or vice versa. It adds up fast if you know what you're coming up against.

2009-04-28, 11:53 AM
You could try and use the retraining options in PHBII; switch from Evocation to another school and/or go Focused Specialist if you aren't (and go into Inchantrix if you can, though it sounds like you can't). I'd drop Evocation, and two of Illusion/Enchantment/Necromancy (unless you have another dispeller, then you can drop Abjuration). Then use Arcane Thesis + Inchantrix to cheese out the metamagic on an Orb spell.

Two things I disagree with here.

1) Focused Specialist -> Incantatrix seems like a really bad idea. Incantatrix is powerful enough even for a generalist, so I don't see how you can justify losing four schools for it (unless you go Diviner, in which case Focused Specialist probably isn't worth it anyway). That leaves you with - assuming you choose optimally - Abjuration (see next problem), Divination, Conjuration, and Transmutation. You're losing out on a ton of versatility there.

2) Can't drop Abjuration if you're going into Incantatrix, so it doesn't matter if there's another dispeller.

2009-04-28, 03:37 PM
Evocations isn't bad with metamagic reducers, it's just harder to find spells in it that do more than damage.

What you need is metamagic reduction. Arcane thesis, when combined with a +0 metamagic effect, gives you -1 to other metmagic effects on that spell.

Use force missiles (3rd level big brother to magic missile) metmagic feats, and arcane thesis to be putting out hundreds of no-save damage!

Scorching ray + energy substitution is also quite a solid damage source, if you trick it out with cheap metamagic.

2009-04-28, 04:49 PM
From what I've seen of Jade Phoenix Mage it is definitely worth it. It also might help to tell us exactly what you have and therefore can't change.

2009-04-28, 08:00 PM
Hmm, Character is looking as though:

Str: 8
Dex: 14
Con: 10
int: 19
Wis: 14
Cha: 8

Race Is a Fire Elf (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/UA:Fire_Elves) , 3rd level wizard, so far, can't remember spells, but have NOT picked the 2 from 3rd as I JUST leveled. Also have no familiar and Plan to get one at 5th level using the Improved Familiar Feat and get a fire elemental, I am playing a pyromaniac so more for the Fluff.

Have 5 Health Need to level though so +1d4, Haven;t picked any feats, but have a flaw for a grand total of 3 needed to be picked.

Spells: [From Memory]
burning hands
magic missile
tenser's disk floating
orb of acid
orb of fire
both of these are lesser...
burning rage

Can;t remember all of them but have all my 1st level spells picked.

2009-04-28, 08:41 PM
Get grease, maybe from a scroll. Even if it's just a first-level spell, it's very hard for most low-level monsters to resist (as very few monsters have ranks in Balance and good Reflex saves), and will mostly shut down monsters. When you have access to second level spells, get glitterdust--it will work against almost anything. Just don't use it against dragons (high saves + blindsense = wasted spell). Web is also a good spell, though with its large area it's likely to make things difficult for your party members as well as your enemies.

As much as Evocation is disparaged, I still recommend getting fireball. It's iconic and sometimes, it's just worth it. Scorching ray is one of the best Evocation spells; it's easy to get a hit (ranged touch attack), scales damage well, and can hit multiple targets without risking friendly fire.

If you plan on stacking metamagic, make sure you get Arcane Thesis for the spell you plan to do it with, and if you really want cheese, take Incantatrix levels.

Even without Incantatrix, I once had a Silver Flame Pyromancer who instantly fried the lich end boss of an adventure with an Empowered (via Spellshard), Explosive, Energy Admixed, Maximized, Smiting (Silver Flame Pyro class feature) fireball. I loved the look on the DM's face. :P Fireball was his arcane thesis.

2009-05-11, 03:48 PM
I made this and Have finished with it is there a way I or someone else can delete it?