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Silent Musician
2009-04-27, 11:07 PM
Hi, guys. I'm currently in a DnD 4ed campaign with a few friends. However, the difference with this campaign is that it's about eleven party members large. Now, before I tell you about my rant, let me give you the background of what has happened.

A month ago, maybe a little over that, a friend talked amongst us, asking if anyone will want to try D&D 4ed with him as the DM. The circle of friends agreed, and the next few days, they went out buying all sorts of stuff to prepare for the game. His explanation was to use this campaign as a beginner's entry into the game, having everyone make their level 1 characters. He and most of them had never played D&D before except for me and one other in the group. As far as DMing goes, he has been doing a very good job thus far, having gotten tips and other things from a few other friends who were experienced DMs. I'm sort of like his rule guy, who helps show him what to do when certain things happens, while also being a member of this very large party. It was a given from a close D&D friend of mines, one of the ones who helped out the DM, that this large of a group was going to have lots of problems, and I agreed. But I was relying on the fact that this was just something to get everyone familiar with the game and just have fun like any social event does. But there was also that voice at the back of my head saying, this isn't going to go well when things start getting complicated. It's a relief that everyone is so dedicated to playing.

Now, let me tell you a bit about the circle of friends. The DM is very laid back. A few of the people in the circle aren't. Let's describe them as chaotic. Not only that, they're a very energetic bunch, so they're always cracking jokes and doing other stuff like this. It's all good, since it's what we're there for, but me and a few of the other people in the group, including the DM, show touchy expressions now and again to this. Since everyone is pretty close, it's kinda hard for someone to just say "can you shut up for at least one minute?" The DM at least has the bravery now and again to keep them in check. As I said, he's acting the role pretty well. Just he's still a little unknown on all the rules, which is normal.

So, the characters in the group are as follows: a cleric, a warlock, a ranger variant using the martial Powers book, a fighter, a paladin, a wizard, a rogue, a warlord, another warlock, and finally my character, which I will explain about soon. A pretty big group with a lot of variety, yes, and the DM made sure to make the challenges enough to fit this size of a group. Now, here comes the problem. Teamwork. Teamwork is shaky because the players are generally new but also generally too carefree. They can follow the basic rules of attacking and using their powers, but to them, it's just playing a game, at least the ones who are always joking. The problem, also, is that some of them don't even play their characters. For example, the cleric. He's a good aligned cleric of Avandra. However, instead of being the good cleric that he is, the players uses him more like a cleric who is more bloodthirsty. He has intentions of being evil, too, which the DM has strongly called against, since alignment shifts aren't as simple as saying "I do this." You're suppose to play your character within their personality. A lot of people in the group have this problem. At the same time, they're very dependent on the DM, using his hints to make sure they do not do anything stupid, or at least, to hurt their characters. Now this is where I come in.

I have enough experience in this game to be more daring and to a lot more stuff that they normally wouldn't know what to do. Taking some advice from a friend about making a fun character, I chose to create an Eladrin Barbarian, the Conan-like character who is very prideful and fears little. I created him for the purpose of standing out, cause I knew many of the people in the group wouldn't be so brave, especially since they were new. And sure enough, they weren't. They did well in reacting to my character's mannerisms. When he wanted to run after a goblin who just spotted them in a cave, they attempted to stop me cause they didn't know what was down there. But through a strength check, my character managed to bull rush the dwarf who tried to stop him out of the way and continue. Or when my character wanted to rush into town and starting slaying the guards since they were given a mission to destroy them and save the town from the ruling, they immediately detested against it. This is all fine and dandy, but the players do not act within the bounds of their characters a lot. Like I said, they are playing this game as newbies, so when I do stuff like this, they are thinking I am being stupid, but that is only because my character is the brash, jump-into-battle type. Aka, barbarian. However, I do consider the normal etiquette of things, and keep my barbarian within the decent range of being less aggressive.

Eventually, I decided I wanted to play a Sorcerer. At first, I was just talking about how sorcerers were cool, but then my DM said if I wanted to change character, I could since the campaign was still in early stages. So I did, and came up with my Halfling Sorcerer, who kinda inherits that chaotic-like behavior that I was trying to adapt. However, he does it more intelligently. We went into the town, the party managed to clear it out, but found out that dopplergangers had threw people into a pit then killed them there. We went in and decided to fight them. After that revelation, we went to the town's manor, where the mayor was dead and a few more of the guards were there. We took care of them then went inside and finished off the supposed Boss Dopplerganger. When we finally went into this secret room, we came upon a Large mithril Armor thing that was protecting this large chest. The only thing it said was: "I only obey the master." Me and the rogue tried to bluff it into thinking they were the master, but it failed due to the monster being more high leveled than we expected. The party was pretty much keeping back, since the only thing the 20ft monstrosity did, but I decided to have my character bravery try to walk up to it and see if it would do anything, since he was thinking everyone else were cowards. And he also was thinking his magic will be effective against a suit of armor. Though there was a large mana field within the area, he was taking it as just the suit being animated. I also failed my roll for Arcana check, so to him, he was thinking it was just that. Then the suit and he went into battle, and well...

My character ended up dying before the suit walked back to the chest and assumed its position. This is where the key point of this conversation comes in because as my character was now at -4 HP, NONE of the players were vouching to revive him. In fact, the players were suddenly saying how much of a douche my character was, and how stupid he was to just walk up to the thing. Then the cleric player told everyone to raise their hands who wanted my character to die, and about four of them did so, which were the bulk of the "fun loving jokers." After that, he told me that he was sorry but he couldn't go against the vote.

You should have saw my expression. How could a good aligned cleric say that? In addition, the very act of just having my character die there was through just ooc-reasons, too, as the group held a more reserved type of attitude than my character's more aggressive nature. Without any help, I just had to roll to see if I survive, but failed, resulting in my character's death. I had little regret for what I was doing because I felt I was playing my character how he was, an adventuring halfing who wishes to become the best in the world. But I was internally shaking my head as the group started laughing after that event. I even told them "I hate you guys so ****ing much." Jokingly, of course, but there was some intent of true upset in those words. Well, after that, the party had now claimed the town as their, which has now become their base. But after the session, the Dm started to get on them as they were discussing about skinning my character alive and making it into a backpack. He told them that it was against their characters' alignments and would not have that. Further more, he didn't like how the cleric player just let my character die, since it was strongly against what he was playing. There was a short argument of this, and the DM said he was going to talk to the cleric player sometime later.

Everyone left quietly due to the increasing conflicts. Fortunately, my DM is allowing me to make a new character. I just know now that I'm going to have to play a more intelligent character who is going to have to be the "stand back and let them try to do stuff on their own type of guy" at this point. After all, it is a learning experience for them. However, my DM is still quite new at this, so he is facing the typical problems many DMs face with new players. There are the couple in the group who play their characters well and with interesting personalities, most noted being the fighter, who refers to himself in third person, and the rogue, the typical "I wanna steal stuff" persona. I told him that he's just going through something that's normal, but that he's going to have to take more control over his campaign since it's becoming a lot more serious now. He's going to have to separate friendship and this game for a second and pull some people to the side and talk to them about how he wants to take this campaign. So, to me, I find this a very great learning experience for him, and am waiting to see how he handles this, and if the group will finally be more mature and take this game seriously. They have the potential, but they're not using it.

There. That's my rant of trying to make a DM campaign into a sociable gathering, especially between such a large group. Give me your thoughts on this. Does he need to cut some people out of this campaign? Can he truly pull this off and make it to his conclusion without disappointing some of the friends in this circle?

DragonBaneDM
2009-04-28, 12:36 AM
Ouch... A tale of woe indeed friend. Not only have I been there, but I've run one of these games before...

Went so badly I ended up splitting with my girlfriend from sheer stress. Heh... However, I learned from my mistakes, and I hope that I can use them to assist you, and your DM, in this, your time of need.

First thing first. I saw the number 11. And I cringed... Too big. I don't care if 9 of them are joined at the hip. Cuts must be made. Now, of course I don't recommend that your DM simply walks up to them and tells them not to play any more, but those 4 guys? Shun them.

Gone. "This is a serious game" Hahaha. Don't rush it, though, newbs tend to fall off the bandwagon after the first game though. Too complicated.

And you're right about your DM. He's got a lot to learn, but he'll be okay, actually running a big game is the best learning experience I've ever had.

However, it's not just up to him to fix this. You are going to play a significant role as well.

Now, from how you've been describing yourself in this I can tell two things about you. You are either the or one of the most experienced player out of the 11 of you. And you are good at DND.

Now, you need to start playing like it, broski! =D

Powergame. If you need to sit back and observe, which wouldn't be my tactic, simply kick ass! Take my one player, a warlord, he is the party reject.

Whether he wants to be or not, all the other players hate him for being a buzzkill, and they pick on him every hour of every day. Even the chaotic evil wizard who steals from party members gets more respect, he's actually the most beloved member of the party. But, the warlord's the best player in the game, he's won almost every fight for this party. Which earns him de facto respect from a group of kids who wish him death on a weekly basis.

Solve the puzzles first. Know more about the game. And when you play a different character, play something BADASS!!! You need to make a difference in encounters. I recommend Assault Swordmage, Tactical Warlord(unless you've got one), a Fighter(GO BATTLERAGER!), or a Warden. Barbarian was a GREAT first choice. :D And I would have loved to have had you in my game.

My point is, like it or not, you are unpopular in your group. If you weren't, your halfling would be alive right now. You can get that back by being the rock of your party in combat. When people need their asses saved, they look to the guy who knows the game the best. And once the DM has a manageable group and one of his favorites in charge, fixing the campaign will be a snap.

You're a great player, dude. Use that. And you're DM is going to grow, A LOT, from this campaign. But stress him to cut it down to AT LEAST six or seven people. It will save him so much trouble, and the game will actually start to feel like a story. That is truly the best advice I can give.

DragonBaneDM
2009-04-28, 12:39 AM
Oh, and that Cleric? He especially bugged me...

Show your DM the Angel of Vengeance. Should give him some ideas for either scaring him straight or converting him to an evil god to "protect him". Hahaha, the ensuing holy war for his soul should keep him from doing anything TOO dumb.