Lord of Destruction...worth it?

[Stormthorn]

I have Diablo 2. In fac ti have for a few years. I was thinking of getting LoD but i can only seem to find it as part of the Battle Chest, which would force me to pay for a lot of useless crap. In addition, its likely i wont ever make it to the end of the game and get to see the new areas (farthest i have gotten yet is end of act 2), so i would be buying LoD for the new classes and runes, not the added endgame.

is it worth it?

[AgentPaper]

That depends entirely on how much you would like the new classes. :smallamused:

Maybe if you tell us which classes in the original you like, and what you like about them, we can help you more.:smallwink:

[Stormthorn]

That depends entirely on how much you would like the new classes. :smallamused:

Maybe if you tell us which classes in the original you like, and what you like about them, we can help you more.:smallwink:


The only two classes i made it out of act 1 with are Nerco and paladin. I think i prefer the necromancer. I like his voice too.

I hear that ToB lets you rez and equip your mercenaries, which sounds good but mine tend to die real often on me. I just got finished doing Countesses tower as a necromancer. Lost 2 mercs in it before giving up and doing it with just my skeletons. Man, those skeletons sure do suck.

[Zincorium]

Lord of Destruction really is a good bet, especially as how you can probably find it online for next to nothing.

ALL classes get more stuff, your stash increases in size, and there's an entire new act for you to play around in.

[Philistine]

If you're not deriving much enjoyment from D2 - which is what it sounds like - then I'd say don't bother with LoD. Yes, there are gameplay changes in the expansion, but none so radical or sweeping that you should expect to have fun playing LoD if you didn't consider vanilla D2 to be A Real Good Time. Even if you could find someone giving it away for free, that's time and HD space you could be devoting to something you actually like.

[Icewalker]

I quite liked it, but I must say, you will be getting very little out of it in the early acts. Runes are like some of the higher gems, you get nearly none in the first few acts. It's mostly worth it for the new endgame material, which, I want to suggest, is a lot more achievable if you play online.

[Battleship789]

I have Diablo 2. In fac ti have for a few years. I was thinking of getting LoD but i can only seem to find it as part of the Battle Chest, which would force me to pay for a lot of useless crap. In addition, its likely i wont ever make it to the end of the game and get to see the new areas (farthest i have gotten yet is end of act 2), so i would be buying LoD for the new classes and runes, not the added endgame.

is it worth it?

If you've never gotten out of the second act, I'd say no. The new classes are pretty fun, though you haven't really got to the fun abilities of the normal classes if you haven't gone through the second act. You won't be able to get any runes worth having if you don't progress in the game, as mentioned by Icewalker. However, if you are willing to stick it out and move forward in the story, I'd say get it: the end game stuff is pretty cool.

[Stormthorn]

I wish i could find an editor that would work, but they all fail on my unpatched un-LoD game. If i could get an editor i could give myself levels whenever i come upon a grind section and not get stuck, which is why i tend to lose the fun.

[Winterwind]

Grinding is strictly unnecessary in Diablo 2 though. If you just proceed through the acts at a normal pace, killing whatever you meet along the way, you will always be properly leveled. Some people choose to stop and grind at some places because they want the following parts to be easier, but it's perfectly possible to do without that.

This said, I'll second what Philistine and Battleship789 said. If you didn't consider plain D2 fun, LoD is not going to change it. If you did consider D2 fun, LoD is a must-have.

[KIDS]

As other said, if you just plain didn't enjoy the original, LoD won't change it.
If you just had some problems with it, odds are good that LoD will fix a lot of it. The new classes are awesome, the new act is brilliant (and the unforgettable ancients battle), leveling curve past normal difficulty is smoothed out, drops and storage are improved...

...and most important of all, 90% of talents have synergies with each other, meaning that it's impossible to waste skill points. You can put 5 points in skeleton mastery, skeleton and skeleton mage in early levels, and these points will still be useful later when you get revives, or you can put 8 in ice blast for easy leveling and it will help a lot when you get to blizzard or frozen orb. I can't emphasize how great this is, removing a lot of the stress that would otherwise force you to min-max and experiment with various builds.

In any event, I do recommend LoD, though not out of the battle chest if you don't want those other things.

[KillianHawkeye]

On the upside, a fully patched LoD will make your Necromancer awesome! Necros rock (and skellies no longer suck) in 1.10 and later.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I wish i could find an editor that would work, but they all fail on my unpatched un-LoD game. If i could get an editor i could give myself levels whenever i come upon a grind section and not get stuck, which is why i tend to lose the fun.

One of the biggest things in LoD are synergy bonuses. Some skills give bonuses to other skills just by being there. This vastly increases your power. Equipping your mercenaries also vastly improves not only their survivability, but also their power.

As a Necromancer, you should be having 3+ skeletal warriors and at least 1 skeletal mage, plus your Clay Golem. You should also have a hefty investment in Skeletal Mastery to improve the capabilities of your skeletons. If you don't have this, then the problem may be with your skill setup. If you have more than one point in any given Curse, there's a problem right there. If you bothered with Bone/Poison spells other than Corpse Explosion, there's another problem right there. Also, you could simply be under-geared due to poor luck. Try killing some named bosses for some magic gear upgrades, and see if you can't find a decent wand

One thing that LoD brought to Necromancers was the Shrunken Head. Basically, it's a shield... that gives skill bonuses like a Wand, those skill bonuses STACK with the ones from your wand. And can be magic, just like any other shield. With a decent low-end head + wand, you can easily be sporting 6+ on your Skeletal Mastery, making your skeletons anything but weak.

[Stormthorn]

One of the biggest things in LoD are synergy bonuses. Some skills give bonuses to other skills just by being there. This vastly increases your power. Equipping your mercenaries also vastly improves not only their survivability, but also their power.

As a Necromancer, you should be having 3+ skeletal warriors and at least 1 skeletal mage, plus your Clay Golem. You should also have a hefty investment in Skeletal Mastery to improve the capabilities of your skeletons. If you don't have this, then the problem may be with your skill setup. If you have more than one point in any given Curse, there's a problem right there. If you bothered with Bone/Poison spells other than Corpse Explosion, there's another problem right there. Also, you could simply be under-geared due to poor luck. Try killing some named bosses for some magic gear upgrades, and see if you can't find a decent wand

One thing that LoD brought to Necromancers was the Shrunken Head. Basically, it's a shield... that gives skill bonuses like a Wand, those skill bonuses STACK with the ones from your wand. And can be magic, just like any other shield. With a decent low-end head + wand, you can easily be sporting 6+ on your Skeletal Mastery, making your skeletons anything but weak.

I dont know about all of what your saying.... I have had people say the same stuff but for a Poison Dagger focus build (very high damage output if done right) or a build using almost exclusivly a swarm of skeletons. I dont see why your advice warrents any more consideration than those peoples.

My plan is to have a few warriors and a golem with a handful of mages to provide ranged support. Then i put whatever my chosen curse is on the enemies and spam Bone Spear. And lots of points in Skeletal Mastery to beef up the mages.

[Icewalker]

Grinding is strictly unnecessary in Diablo 2 though. If you just proceed through the acts at a normal pace, killing whatever you meet along the way, you will always be properly leveled.

I'm gonna have to outright disagree with this. In no game have I ever kept up, I'm sure part of it is imperfectly efficient skill sets, but even so. Playing offline, I never made it past chapter 2, although this is mostly because Duriel is ridiculously OP, especially vs. Necromancers (she one shots all your summons). I got Hero Editor a while ago (don't know if it works without LoD) and have used that, just making normal characters except starting with items to boost exp rate, and it's fun times.

[nooblade]

It's certainly possible (in versions I'm familiar with). Items are the biggest chore once you have a good plan for skills, but the vendors' can have their inventories reset.


Having multiple leveled skills is the most difficult way to play after the most early parts, AFAIK. You may want to sink lots of points into minions so they do lots of damage and can tank OR skill into bone or poison spells to get damage out as quickly as possible. Then again, this sounds like you're coming from before synergies, so I dunno as much about that.

D2 does get awfully repetitive sometimes, especially if you're underleveled and start dying. Most of what I know about it are cheap tricks: walking in and out of town at one spot so I can reset the vendors' goods, lists of runes dropped by the countess or whatever and the runewords I can make from them, and breakpoints for enhancements and skills. Someone inexperienced will need to look at builds, maybe become attracted to intense trading, rather than just playing the game. I like the game, but I don't see how to get someone else to like it, maybe that's why I've kinda given up on it.

Oh, and lots of skill builds given out by random people aren't all that great. Poison Dagger does lots of damage, but it's one target at a time, damage over time, and needs a good amount of mana or mana-restoring item mods.

[Winterwind]

I'm gonna have to outright disagree with this. In no game have I ever kept up, I'm sure part of it is imperfectly efficient skill sets, but even so. Playing offline, I never made it past chapter 2, although this is mostly because Duriel is ridiculously OP, especially vs. Necromancers (she one shots all your summons). I got Hero Editor a while ago (don't know if it works without LoD) and have used that, just making normal characters except starting with items to boost exp rate, and it's fun times.Well, I haven't seen you play, so I have no idea why you would have had such trouble.

I know for a fact though that I haven't had any trouble to stay perfectly powerful enough to keep up with the monsters all the way to Baal without any grinding at all. When playing alone and without getting any help or items from outside. On Hardcore, no less.

If we include some minor item trading, I didn't experience any necessity for grinding all the way to Baal on Hell difficulty (and I'm not saying that item trading is necessary, only that I didn't experience playing without it because I always engaged into it at some point or another).

Grinding is only necessary if somebody pulls you - gives you waypoints and helps you to fulfill quests and kill act bosses to help you move on faster. If you don't skip entire levels or even acts like that, you will always be properly leveled. The game is designed to ensure that.

[Icewalker]

Nah, I'm talking about offline. Online I did fine, working with other people.

Actually, I never had too much trouble, it just progressed a little slower than I preferred. Maybe you never have to stop and fight things repeatedly, but it can be a little slow at times. At least, I was alright until the end of chapter two. Duriel is really just a broken boss fight, even on my edited characters I always have a lot of trouble.

I haven't played normal offline games in a long time, I just had my necromancer, reached the end of chapter two, just did grinding on enemies for a long time, still didn't have a chance against Duriel, and gave up.

[Quayleman]

Nah, I'm talking about offline. Online I did fine, working with other people.

Actually, I never had too much trouble, it just progressed a little slower than I preferred. Maybe you never have to stop and fight things repeatedly, but it can be a little slow at times. At least, I was alright until the end of chapter two. Duriel is really just a broken boss fight, even on my edited characters I always have a lot of trouble.

I haven't played normal offline games in a long time, I just had my necromancer, reached the end of chapter two, just did grinding on enemies for a long time, still didn't have a chance against Duriel, and gave up.

Yeah, duriel is pretty brutal. Offline by yourself, you usually have to throw (your own) bodies at him for a while before he goes down.

He used to be immune to cold on NM and Hell, as well.

One thing I will say for LoD is, you know that paladin? well he's awesome now. Doesn't really matter what skills you are using, he is just goona be good.

[Winterwind]

Nah, I'm talking about offline. Online I did fine, working with other people.While I was speaking about online (because I see exactly zero reason to ever play offline, unless one has an instable Internet connection or no flatrate - it's the exactly same game, only with the added option of playing with other people should one ever decide to do so), note I said "when playing alone" nonetheless. I've had plenty characters that I played all the way through Normal (or Normal Hardcore) difficulty alone, in spite of playing online, because nobody else happened to be around, and grinding still never seemed necessary.

Though I have to note that I pretty much never played a necromancer (not a particular fan of the class); with a paladin or a sorceress, I never had much trouble with Duriel, I hear that's quite different for necros (for fairly obvious reasons, too - no corpses to work with, and pretty much instant death for golems does not a happy necro make).

[Icewalker]

Instant death for everything, it's pretty awful.

I totally agree with you about online play, it was almost all of what I did. But my first one or two characters were offline after getting the game.

[Stormthorn]

Grinding is only necessary if somebody pulls you - gives you waypoints and helps you to fulfill quests and kill act bosses to help you move on faster. If you don't skip entire levels or even acts like that, you will always be properly leveled. The game is designed to ensure that.

For me its either grind or Kite. I got unlucky on the powers of one of those random named monsters and it could one-shot my skeletons. And it was with another named monster with mana drain. That was nearly TEN MINUTES of me running around in circles casting LEVEL 1 TEETH when i had only bought because i wanted Corpse Explosion and Bone Spear.

[Colmarr]

He used to be immune to cold on NM and Hell, as well.

They got rid of this?

My frost sorceress had to buy a staff of +8 to blaze and then run around Duriel's chamber like a mad thing kiting the giant cockroach through the flames. I think I went through 30+ healing potions before the flames finally killed him.

And then I did some happy running around myself :smallbiggrin:

Duriel was definitely the hardest boss for that character.

[nooblade]

Offline just means you spend more time shopping and the stuff you find more often goes to waste. That's what I was talking about too.

For Necros vs Duriel, as a skelenecro, you'd need lots of points into skeletons so they do nice damage and then try to tank him with your necromancer, allowing all the minions to attack without retaliation. Vitality is hugely important for hitpoints (I put almost all of my points into vitality for hp or dex for blocking -- a high-block shield is costly but really nice), plus other tanky items and rejuvenation potions. Restart if you lose too many skeles, but Clay Golems can be resummoned (the slow is nice). The Weaken curse is nice, or amplify if you're doing okay on tanking. Don't be afraid to TP out and fight later, town healing is free and you can get more corpses and back into it by using a waypoint to go back to act 1, then reenter the TP to Duriel's lair, great just in case something goes wrong.


I'd guess you should be at least level 20 after doing every square inch of all the areas before then (I hit level 18 in the maggot lair iirc), including the seven tombs, that means, for the !!latest version!!, I'd go with, 4 pts Skeleton mastery, 12 pts Raise Skeleton, 1 pt amplify damage, 1 pt weaken, 1 pt Clay Golem, 1 pt Raise Skeletal Magi, and 1 pt Terror. In recent versions, RS and SM in 3:1 ratio gives optimal skeletons. That's after +skills items though, using a nice wand when summoning these guys would be a huge help for you. Actually, knocking off some of the other skills would help if you want to just take RS, SM, and Clay Golem. Curses can be used from a wand on the switch. More DPS helps.


You just get the hang of doing this after reading some guides and trying stuff. Or idk, maybe I'm special.

Blocking is so overpowered in this game that it was hugely nerfed for the Median mods. :smallsmile:

[Dhavaer]

I actually found Duriel very easy with a Necromancer. I just fired bone spears at him and it was over in seconds.

[Ghastly Epigram]

@Grinding: I never really encountered this problem either, my characters leveled fine just playing through the game normally and killing everything they met. In my experience if you find yourself getting stuck, it is less to do with level and more with your build. (Actually, I did seem to have a habit of not getting good items, but I made do. D:)

@Online: I pretty much never played it online. D: Of course, back in the days I was really into it we had a 56k connection, so...

@The Actual Thread Topic: Well, I cannot do much but echo what everyone else has said; if you are not already having fun and do not see yourself getting far, LoD is not really going to help. If you really enjoy the game though, LoD definitely improves the experience. Although, it might HELP you get further, with things like synergies, equipping mercenaries, et cetera.

@Duriel: The irony is that Duriel is a sudden difficulty spike on Normal setting, but on Nightmare and Hell becomes trivial, and I literally beat him in less than a minute. (Well, as a Necromancer in any case.) Do not be afraid to take a few trips back to town to heal and get more minions. As long as you have a good ranged attack (preferably Bone Spear) it should not be TOO difficult. Three or so skeletons + clay golem + mercenary (equipped preferably...oh wait, the OP does not have LoD :smalltongue:) + skeleton mages = dead Duriel.

@Necromancers In General: If you have not gotten past Act 2, you are really missing out on the best Necromancers have to offer, and I urge you to stick with it. It becomes a really rewarding class later on, and in some ways the game actually gets easier (though no less fun!) as you progress.

@Curses: In my case, the only curse I bothered with was Amplify Damage. Putting levels into it is not really needed, since by the time you need the extra radius, you will probably have items granting you the needed levels anyway. (Having said that, I think I did put a point or two then, but it has been ages since I looked at him, so I could be wrong.)

@Poison and Bone:


If you bothered with Bone/Poison spells other than Corpse Explosion, there's another problem right there.

Whut. I found Bone Spear invaluable, even at Hell difficulty. While its damage output was obviously low by then even at level 26, I had so much mana/mana regeneration and such a high caster rate that spamming it still brought enemies down with ease. I maxed out on it for sure. The rest of the spells I never used though. (Including Corpse Explosion.)

@Summoning: I forget the synergies having skeletons grants, but I would advise not putting TOO many skill points into it; having more than three skeletons is not really necessary, excluding items granting the skill of course. I thought Skeleton Mages deserved a few more, as I found them useful for longer. (Heck, the cold ones still have a use on Hell setting.) Skeleton Mastery on the other hand is obviously indispensable both at low and high levels (revived!) and I maxed it out. Putting more than one skill point on the actual golems is fairly useless until Fire Golem, with became a really really useful meat shield. I doubt many people maxed out on it + golem mastery, (EDIT: Okay, thinking about it I do not think I maxed out on either. But they had quite a few skill points certainly) but it worked really well for me, so what can I say. *Shrugs* Revive is the single most useful skill the Necromancer has, so you want as many of these as possible. (Having said that, I do not think I maxed the skill out, but after 14 or so I did not find it necessary anyway.) And the one that grants your minions resistances is useful later on, so I put some points in that too.

...Maybe I should just stop talking now. :smallredface:

[Baron Corm]

On the upside, a fully patched LoD will make your Necromancer awesome! Necros rock (and skellies no longer suck) in 1.10 and later.

I would re-emphasize this as your main reason for buying the expansion. Necromancers were, no offense, a joke of a class in classic (unless you're Dhavaer for some reason). In the fully-patched expansion, they become the best solo class, with their skeletons able to take down anything and absorb any hit, even without any equipment on at all.

[Philistine]

I can name one reason to play D2 offline - and for me, that one is pretty compelling. It has to do with the way I play games.

I've picked up a fair number of games over the past twenty-odd years. And while D2 is one of the games that I like to keep "in the rotation" and come back to every so often, the LoD CD sometimes doesn't see the inside of the drive for a year or longer at a stretch. Playing offline, my characters will still be on the disc when I finally come back; battle.net characters will be long gone by then - unless periodically log in to a game I'm not actively playing, just to keep my account active. Even if I thought that was worth it, there's still the whole issue of remembering to do it. So when I do play, I play offline. Obviously this reason would disappear if I were playing D2 more regularly... but I'm not doing that now, and haven't done so in years, and don't expect to do so at any time in the foreseeable future.

[Avilan the Grey]

Grinding is strictly unnecessary in Diablo 2 though. If you just proceed through the acts at a normal pace, killing whatever you meet along the way, you will always be properly leveled.

The point with grinding in D2 is for gear, not levels.

[Winterwind]

For Necros vs Duriel, as a skelenecro, you'd need lots of points into skeletons so they do nice damage and then try to tank him with your necromancer, allowing all the minions to attack without retaliation. Vitality is hugely important for hitpoints (I put almost all of my points into vitality for hp or dex for blocking -- a high-block shield is costly but really nice), plus other tanky items and rejuvenation potions. Restart if you lose too many skeles, but Clay Golems can be resummoned (the slow is nice). The Weaken curse is nice, or amplify if you're doing okay on tanking. Don't be afraid to TP out and fight later, town healing is free and you can get more corpses and back into it by using a waypoint to go back to act 1, then reenter the TP to Duriel's lair, great just in case something goes wrong.

[...]

Blocking is so overpowered in this game that it was hugely nerfed for the Median mods. :smallsmile:You are forgetting he plays without LoD. Prior to LoD, blocking did not depend on dexterity, solely on the shield itself (and class, I think).


@Summoning: I forget the synergies having skeletons grants, but I would advise not putting TOO many skill points into it; having more than three skeletons is not really necessary, excluding items granting the skill of course. I thought Skeleton Mages deserved a few more, as I found them useful for longer. (Heck, the cold ones still have a use on Hell setting.) Skeleton Mastery on the other hand is obviously indispensable both at low and high levels (revived!) and I maxed it out. Putting more than one skill point on the actual golems is fairly useless until Fire Golem, with became a really really useful meat shield. I doubt many people maxed out on it + golem mastery, (EDIT: Okay, thinking about it I do not think I maxed out on either. But they had quite a few skill points certainly) but it worked really well for me, so what can I say. *Shrugs* Revive is the single most useful skill the Necromancer has, so you want as many of these as possible. (Having said that, I do not think I maxed the skill out, but after 14 or so I did not find it necessary anyway.) And the one that grants your minions resistances is useful later on, so I put some points in that too.

...Maybe I should just stop talking now. :smallredface:Umm... there's a lot in there that used to be true for necromancers several patches ago, but is completely wrong these days.

Skeleton warriors are usually a better choice than skeleton mages, because they make for better tanks. "Useful for longer" is a moot point, because skeletons remain useful throughout the entire game. Necros usually get just a few skeleton mages in case they have to deal with immune monsters. The only golem that is really worth it is not the Fire Golem, it's the Clay Golem, which is far more durable and useful than its high-level cousin.


I've picked up a fair number of games over the past twenty-odd years. And while D2 is one of the games that I like to keep "in the rotation" and come back to every so often, the LoD CD sometimes doesn't see the inside of the drive for a year or longer at a stretch. Playing offline, my characters will still be on the disc when I finally come back; battle.net characters will be long gone by then - unless periodically log in to a game I'm not actively playing, just to keep my account active. Good point, didn't think of that.


The point with grinding in D2 is for gear, not levels.True. My point remains, however. It's still not necessary to proceed.

[nooblade]

I've practically never played without LoD. xD

Eh, I usually find enough nice stuff for spellcasters when shopping in town. Especially in single player, you can't rely on unique items to appear, so the blue things are your friend.

If I don't have adequate gear but I have plenty of money and high levels, the power-shopping process begins. Rapidly check for the items you want with vendors by entering and leaving towns so it gets reset. It goes much faster than trying to mf for a particular item, even though it is pretty tedious.

Another option is to use a Muling application for offline single player. ATMA is a good one, and PlugY offers some pretty cool other stuff that's usually only on bnet (but is technically a mod). It's possible to cheat with PlugY, but I don't think muling items is really "cheating".

[hajo]

I wish i could find an editor that would work, but they all fail on my unpatched un-LoD game.
ATMA (http://atma.diabloii.net/) was already mentioned. It is for offline-play and can move stuff between characters, or export/import to an archive.
So, if you find nice items, move them to the char that can use them best.


If i could get an editor i could give myself levels whenever i come upon a grind section
I haven't used any other editor for D2, so I cannot comment on HeroEditor etc.

But with LOD, you can outfit your merc yourself, and that makes a big difference.
E.g. a rogue with a 3-socket-longbow filled with topaz-gems for added lightning-damage suddenly gets a lot more punch.

Other noteworthy changes in LOD:

Size of stash has doubled
Alternate weapon slot, i.e. you can switch between sword+shield and bow+arrows
More hotkeys for skills available (F9-F12 ...)
More items (Runes, Jewels, class-specific items ...)

For playing online, LOD is pretty much required....

[Ghastly Epigram]

Umm... there's a lot in there that used to be true for necromancers several patches ago, but is completely wrong these days.

Has there been some major patch in the last 10 months? Because before that I created a Necromancer and I had pretty much the same experience as with my older Necromancer.


Skeleton warriors are usually a better choice than skeleton mages, because they make for better tanks. "Useful for longer" is a moot point, because skeletons remain useful throughout the entire game.

Eh? No they do not. They deal pretty much 0 damage and go down in one hit. They have no use whatsoever, especially since you could use that corpse to create a new revived. During Normal, sure, they are very useful, and indeed you need guys to be at the front while you and your mages fire from the back, but having more of them is not a brilliant idea.

(Of course, putting more than 5 points in either is a waste of time.)


Necros usually get just a few skeleton mages in case they have to deal with immune monsters. The only golem that is really worth it is not the Fire Golem, it's the Clay Golem, which is far more durable and useful than its high-level cousin.

I think we have to agree to disagree, because my experiences seem to be completely different to yours. :smallconfused:

[Quayleman]

I dunno...

I have played the full skeleton necro the whole way to hell. The trick is an act 2 merc with might. It does not work so well solo once you are in hell because of the immune to physical monsters, but I generally like it over just lots and lots of revives (get those too, just not as your ONLY beaters)

[LurkerInPlayground]

Eh? No they do not. They deal pretty much 0 damage and go down in one hit. They have no use whatsoever, especially since you could use that corpse to create a new revived. During Normal, sure, they are very useful, and indeed you need guys to be at the front while you and your mages fire from the back, but having more of them is not a brilliant idea.

(Of course, putting more than 5 points in either is a waste of time.)

You are wrong. Simply dead wrong. Since the patch, Raise Skeleton has gotten BEASTLY upgrades. The summoner necro is easily the most beautifully synergistic class build I've seen. You use curses, clay golem, vanilla skeletons and Corpse Explosion in combination to great effect in an MVP context (summoners are still worthless in PVP). They're good enough to be considered an effective tank in the additional MVP content (Chaos Tristram).

High end equipment includes things like Beast. Mercenaries can stack Might auras on top of skellies. +skills can bump Raise Skeletons/Skeleton Mastery up to 40/40 points. Skeletons can take an absurd beating and mana potions are cheap. (Also no caster pumps energy much anymore, preferring Vitality instead for health, since defense tends to be more important in higher difficulties.) That isn't to say that skeletons can't kill things for you. They literally just tank things to death and regenerate health rather quickly. So they get lots of ongoing damage for what amounts to a couple mana potions.

And while at the end-game you rely less on your skeletons for damage, they are very effective tanks. And you can then spend points on skills like . . . ohhh. . . Corpse Explosion. Which pretty much leads to you wiping out mobs while laughing all the way to the bank. There's simply no reason you shouldn't max Raise Skeleton and Skeleton mastery, which gets better with +skills (and high end equipment if you really wanted to go there).

The Clay Golem + Decripify combo is a better usage of points than Skeleton Mages because it can simply shutdown bosses. Granted, Hell mode Baal is incredibly slow to kill, there's simply no way he can kill you once you've locked him. Skeleton mages don't do enough damage for the investment you could put into them and are utterly bad tanks. Increased points only increases their defense. (Yuck.) One point in each curse with +skills also makes you rather party friendly.

Basically you can solo Hell mode if you really wanted to (appealing because I usually *do* Solo). And you can blaze through most everything up until Hell mode with contemptuous ease, even with a mercenary eating half your XP.

Physical immunes *will* slow you down, although a good majority of those can simply be hit with Amplify Damage to remove their immunity altogether. But rarely do they pose an actual threat to you. To be fair, about the only other build that has fewest immunity problems is the Hammerdin or Bone Necro. And physical immunes can still be killed, if you really actually have to, by popping a single point in Fire Golem. Let him go to town while your skeletons pins the single target down.

[hajo]

Has there been some major patch in the last 10 months?
The current patch 1.12 came out at the last ladder-reset 2008-06-17.


They deal pretty much 0 damage and go down in one hit.
You can see the damage the skeletons deal when you hover above the button for the right-click skill.
To make them stronger and more durable, you need a few points in skeleton-mastery and summon-resist.

My necro on US-east is currently at level 77, doing act 3-4 in hell, and has very few problems so far.

[nooblade]

@Lurker - The only thing I don't agree with is that mercs don't steal exp from you, only other players do. The only reason not to have one is fear of the resurrection cost.


@ general -
Lots of skills are good with points in them. People are even pumping teleport so they can use it when mana burned.

[Corlindale]

Skeleton Necros are indeed awesome, possibly the easiest and safest class to solo the game with. Allegedly he can even get through hell naked.

Ontopic: I'm not sure LoD would be worth if, since it sounds like you don't really like the original that much - I would certainly try to get a little farther than act 2 before deciding on buying the expansion, as you haven't even seen half the original content yet.

LoD adds the new Act V and the two new classes. In addition it has since patch 1.10 greatly reformed the skill system, so almost everything works differently, and the builds which were good in vanilla D2 has in many cases become obsolete and been replaced by others utilizing the new synergy system better.
The last major addition is with regards to items - a lot of new uniques, set items and possible properties for normal magic items have been added, as well as runes and jewels. It makes for more interesting loot drops, but its impact is greatest later in the game, beyond the first couple of acts you seem to be playing the most at the moment.

And about grinding: I've never had to grind in D2 - when I die it is mostly because of a mistake, allowing myself to get surrounded being the most common - and not because of being underlevelled. I do tend to take most of the optional dungeons, though, but that's just for the fun of it. Of course whether one feels the need to grind may also depend on one's build and its effectiveness.