The fiction of fans

[Fiery Diamond]

I couldn't decide whether this should go in the media section or not, so I stuck it here just in case.

The topic is, of course, fanfiction.

What do you playgrounders think of fanction in general? Do you read it at all? Do you write it? Do you think it is worth it? Do you think it is all crappy? Do you think the writers are well-utilizing their talents? Do you think they should be writing entirely original works instead? Do you know any fanfiction that you think is good that you would recommend to others? Has your opinion of fanfiction changed because of something you've read?

Personally, I used to think fanfiction was stupid, pointless, and...well... something created by those who lacked originality. I changed my mind upon reading The Return and The Legend of Zelda: Reconciliation on fanficiton.net, where there are many fanfictions (understatement alert!). I thought they were AWESOME, and I've read some other really good ones there too. So, I feel more charitable now. I'm even writing a quasi-fanfiction for Fire Emblem. I call it a quasi-fanfiction because whether it's a fanfiction or not depends on your point of view. I think it is fanfiction, even though setting, story, and characters are all original, because many, many elements are strongly based off of the games, including using names of items and game mechanics. It is called Fire Emblem: Youth's Hope, and I'm not that far yet.

[13_CBS]

Do you write it?


I'm in the process of writing one, but no one seems to want to read it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109409)



What do you playgrounders think of fanction in general?


I think that "proper fanfiction" (a rather arbitrary and subjective term) is an interesting take on an intellectual property that originated from someone else. Things like shipping fics, hate fics, etc. aside, I think that fanfiction can be used as a demonstration of how the writer interprets a given set of characters, settings, plots, and other elements from a work of fiction.

Fanfiction can also be used as experiments for authors who wish to see what things would be like if you added and/or removed certain elements from a work of fiction. What if the hero failed to save the damsel in distress? How would the hero, his friends, his enemies, and everyone else react to this completely new thing? What effects would this event have on the setting and the plot? This, of course, requires a very thorough understanding of the work of fiction to pull off well.

Is it a waste of an author's talents? I don't really think so. A "proper" fanfiction (again the term is arbitrary and subjective) can take quite a bit of hard work and literary talent to pull off, since it requires the author to, again, have a thorough understanding of something that they did not create, and then extrapolate an original plot and/or setting/characters/elements from that. An extra bit of challenge is thrown in when other fans of the series read it and judge it, comparing the derivative work to the original work.

And besides, given how people do get paid to write essentially fanfiction (Star Wars novels, Star Trek novels, Warhammer 40K novels, etc), it's probably not THAT big of a waste of talent. :smallwink:

[Wishpig]

Ya, I'm a huge fan of fanfiction (ya know... when it's written by a skilled writer.)

And I hate the fact it's so frequently overshadowed by fan art and it kinda bugs me. A picture is worth a thousand words my @$$. A single piece of fan art, no matter how well drawn, is not worth a VERY well written five page story.

Maybe thats just cause I have such a good imagination though.

[13_CBS]

A single piece of fan art, no matter how well drawn, is not worth a VERY well written five page story.


Not necessarily. A very good piece of fanart, one that isn't just pretty and otherwise has nothing to do with the elements of the fiction that it's based on, can tell a whole story by itself. Of course, one single picture might not take as much time and dedication as an entire 100,000+ word novel, but it's a bit unfair to wave off fan art as being inherently inferior to fanfiction. It's like saying visual art (painting, sculpture, etc) is automatically inferior to written prose.



Maybe thats just cause I have such a good imagination though.

Humble, are we? :smallwink:

[RabbitHoleLost]

Ya, I'm a huge fan of fanfiction (ya know... when it's written by a skilled writer.)

And I hate the fact it's so frequently overshadowed by fan art and it kinda bugs me. A picture is worth a thousand words my @$$. A single piece of fan art, no matter how well drawn, is not worth a VERY well written five page story.

Maybe thats just cause I have such a good imagination though.

Fanart is sort of like a quick fix for an addiction. Looking at it is very quick, and slightly pleasing.
However, when I need a big kick of my preferred shipping (because I'm a girl and I read romantic fan fiction), I go to fics.

The closest thing I get to writing my own, however, is Shipping in the Playground >>

[Wishpig]

Not necessarily. A very good piece of fanart, one that isn't just pretty and otherwise has nothing to do with the elements of the fiction that it's based on, can tell a whole story by itself. Of course, one single picture might not take as much time and dedication as an entire 100,000+ word novel, but it's a bit unfair to wave off fan art as being inherently inferior to fanfiction. It's like saying visual art (painting, sculpture, etc) is automatically inferior to written prose.



Humble, are we? :smallwink:

Your right. Waving it off is unfair. I do love a nice piece of fan art... but I just don't like how fanart gets all the attention... and I don't write fanfiction, but throughout many of the forums I visit I stumble across many great reads, but they seem to be looked over. Yet, a sloppy picture by a 13 year old has a ton of responses.

I guess I mean, writing lasts longer. I can go and look at a great sculpture, but a great book seems to me as worth much more. How does looking at something for three minutes equal reading an amazing book over the course of two weeks?

[Pyrian]

How does looking at something for three minutes equal reading an amazing book over the course of two weeks?Now, now. A picture is ostensibly worth 1,000 words, while novels start at about 40,000 and up. Clearly a good novel would be worth at least 40 equally good pictures. :smallcool:

[13_CBS]

but I just don't like how fanart gets all the attention... and I don't write fanfiction, but throughout many of the forums I visit I stumble across many great reads, but they seem to be looked over. Yet, a sloppy picture by a 13 year old has a ton of responses.


As Rabbit said, visual images are much easier to process (humans are evolutionarily "designed", so to speak, to be like that), and the fact that the vast majority of people who bother looking at or reading either fan art or fanfiction are probably teens looking for amusement certainly contributes. It's a larger investment of time and concentration to appreciate a long series of words (though I don't mean to belittle the visual appreciation of art).



I guess I mean, writing lasts longer. I can go and look at a great sculpture, but a great book seems to me as worth much more. How does looking at something for three minutes equal reading an amazing book over the course of two weeks?

Is it just three minutes? I'm sure a lover of, say, sculptures might look at every detail on a marble statue, trying to figure out what sort of tool and technique the artist used to bring out the figure from the stone. A lover of paintings might do the same, peering at the minute details of a painting to better appreciate it as a whole.



Now, now. A picture is ostensibly worth 1,000 words, while novels start at about 40,000 and up. Clearly a good novel would be worth at least 40 equally good pictures. :smallcool:

:smallsigh:

(:smalltongue:)

[Wishpig]

Now, now. A picture is ostensibly worth 1,000 words, while novels start at about 40,000 and up. Clearly a good novel would be worth at least 40 equally good pictures. :smallcool:

Oh man... this all nighter is getting to me. For some reason I thought it was 10,000... and for some reason I thought that was pages.

Not only can't I remember the age old saying, but I can't even understand it! Bad sign for my test 2morrow :smallbiggrin:



Is it just three minutes? I'm sure a lover of, say, sculptures might look at every detail on a marble statue, trying to figure out what sort of tool and technique the artist used to bring out the figure from the stone. A lover of paintings might do the same, peering at the minute details of a painting to better appreciate it as a whole.




:smallsigh:

(:smalltongue:)

Obviously I'm not the statue type. This is all my opinion. Art lovers can buy a painting, stick it in their living room, and get more use out of it then a book!

Unless it depected a dwarf shoving coals down an elf's throat, I would prob get sick of it in a day. Well not get sick of it... rather stop noticing it.

[Moff Chumley]

My Immortal is useful for scientific purposes.

And drinking games.

[Sneak]

Fan fiction can be good or bad, just like normal fiction.

However, it is much better to write fiction than fan fiction, as developing your own characters and setting is a very important aspect of writing. You rob yourself of practicing it if you choose to write fanfic.

[GoC]

I once read a TON of fanfiction. There's good and bad and in general you should judge the book by it's cover (or first chapter).
It's generally not as good as published works but there are the occasional gems.

It's like webcomics or free games, 90% of non-commercial ones suck but a few are actually decent.

[reorith]

i prefer bad fan fiction. like a skillfully written work with depth just isn't my thing. bad crossovers that make no sense are the top tier in my fan fiction hierarchy i want to read about how edward cullen turns control of the cloud city of bespin to lord voldermort so he could violate the prime directive and tick off the ancients and activate the stargates that lead directly to a shocksite.cx. and yes i read that, now i just can't find it :/ but it was the greatest thing ever. ever!

[Hell Puppi]

Sometimes fanfiction makes you sad for humanity, sometimes you find yourself crying over a well-written piece.

Really it's quite a grab-bag, but I think fanfiction is a good means of expression. I don't think of it as 'wasting time' because hey, writing is still writing.

[averagejoe]

Some notable fanfiction writers:

William Shakespeare. Lots of celebrity fanfics.
Gregory Maguire. Less aged than some of the others here, but increasingly popular today.
Tom Stoppard.
John Milton. Pretty much the king of this, seeing as how much of his work became fanon.

[Sir_Norbert]

However, it is much better to write fiction than fan fiction, as developing your own characters and setting is a very important aspect of writing. You rob yourself of practicing it if you choose to write fanfic.
I disagree. You could equally well say that you rob yourself of practising writing descriptive passages if you choose to write plays. While this is quite true, plays are still a perfectly valid form of artistic expression, and if that's what you're most comfortable writing, go for it!

I like to explore different aspects of writing, so I write fan fiction, but I wouldn't make it the only thing I write. And I do include original characters in my fan fiction (as well as developing some minor characters so much that apart from name and appearance, they may as well be called originals). From my point of view as a writer, fan fiction is great because it lets me give underused characters, potential but unused plot twists, and themes lurking unstated in the background their turn in the spotlight. It's a way of constructively deconstructing a work you admire but would have done differently yourself. It gives you practice in analysing and understanding someone else's world and characters, and in keeping the "voices" of characters consistent and distinguishable -- in response to Sneak's comment, invaluable skills for a writer that he won't get to practise if he doesn't write fan fiction! Or it can be just a way of paying homage to someone else's creation by saying that you love this fictional universe so much you want to spend even more time there -- and you hope at least one reader will feel the same.

As for recommendations, I'm afraid I don't read very much fan fiction -- mostly because I'm too busy writing these days to have much time for reading -- but I would like to recommend my own work. It's a Sailor Moon fic, but it has been enjoyed by some of my friends who've never seen SM in their lives. And it clocks in at 320,000 words. Don't say I didn't warn you.

http://www.geocities.com/zarathustra47/SailorDora/

(One final warning: Geocities is going to close soon, so if you want to read it, I'd advise you to save it to your hard drive before it disappears. Don't miss Act 8, which is linked to from the bottom of Act 7 but not from the main page.)

[InaVegt]

Fanfiction is theft.

The author the fanfiction writer is supposedly a fan of has spent a lot of time to carefully craft the piece of work that is littered and grafitied upon by this fanfiction writer.

It's like taking a painting and drawing crude images on top of it.

[Morty]

I've read two works of fanfiction based on Harry Potter long ago, when I was young and stupid(instead of older and stupid). Suffice to say, it didn't endear me to this particular type of literary work.

[Xallace]

Fanfiction is theft.

The author the fanfiction writer is supposedly a fan of has spent a lot of time to carefully craft the piece of work that is littered and grafitied upon by this fanfiction writer.

It's like taking a painting and drawing crude images on top of it.

Well now, I'd have to disagree with that analogy. It's more like printing out an image of the Mona Lisa from the internet and then drawing a mustache on the copy. The original piece is still in tact, without mar, easily viewable and purchase-able (for some gads of money). But now you have another rendition that looks at the same idea from a different angle (that is, "What if this woman had a mustache?"). You show a couple friends. They make a couple jokes about "Mario Lisa: The Plumber of Venice." Everyone has a good ol' laugh, and no one's worse off.

But the second you try to sell "Mustachioed Lisa, an original work by InaVegt," then the problems begin. Like those Harry Potter books from China. What was up with those? But to get off the metaphor, are fanfiction writers claiming to own the characters? Non. Are they making money? Non. Is fanfiction just a thought exercise? Oui. Does fanfiction potentially generate more fanbase and get people interested in the original text? Oui!

Now, one also has to realize that authors have varying opinions on fan-fiction. Some encourage it (famously, JK Rowling and the woman who wrote Sailor Moon), while others find it distasteful at best and a sue-able offense at worst. And copyright laws are rather vague on the subject, if I recall.


Now I hope I made sense there. I'm not the best at organizing my thoughts, especially for the purpose of debate.

[averagejoe]

Fanfiction is theft.

The author the fanfiction writer is supposedly a fan of has spent a lot of time to carefully craft the piece of work that is littered and grafitied upon by this fanfiction writer.

It's like taking a painting and drawing crude images on top of it.

That's silly. It's only theft if you're taking something away from someone else. It's more analagous to an artist trying to copy the Mona Lisa and adding their own point of view to it. Which a lot of artists do to some painting or another in their lives. Most musicians start out by playing other people's songs, and some never write their own. I'm not sure why this point of view exists only toward fanfiction.

[Bookman]

Well now, I'd have to disagree with that analogy. It's more like printing out an image of the Mona Lisa from the internet and then drawing a mustache on the copy. The original piece is still in tact, without mar, easily viewable and purchase-able (for some gads of money). But now you have another rendition that looks at the same idea from a different angle (that is, "What if this woman had a mustache?"). You show a couple friends. They make a couple jokes about "Mario Lisa: The Plumber of Venice." Everyone has a good ol' laugh, and no one's worse off.

But the second you try to sell "Mustachioed Lisa, an original work by InaVegt," then the problems begin.

They've done that.... L.H.O.O.Q.

Oh Dada....

[Xallace]

They've done that.... L.H.O.O.Q.

Oh Dada....

They... huh. So they did.

I guess my example scenario was not particularly good, then.
Or better than I thought, I'm not sure which at this point.

[snoopy13a]

That's silly. It's only theft if you're taking something away from someone else. It's more analagous to an artist trying to copy the Mona Lisa and adding their own point of view to it. Which a lot of artists do to some painting or another in their lives. Most musicians start out by playing other people's songs, and some never write their own. I'm not sure why this point of view exists only toward fanfiction.

You're taking the characters that the author created without permission. That is their intellectual property. It is theft unless the characters are in the public domain (which is why Wicked and that horrid Pride and Prejudice with zombies idea are legal).

I don't read fan fiction unless you count the substandard Star Wars novels that are published :smalltongue: .

[averagejoe]

You're taking the characters that the author created without permission. That is their intellectual property. It is theft unless the characters are in the public domain (which is why Wicked and that horrid Pride and Prejudice with zombies idea are legal).

I don't read fan fiction unless you count the substandard Star Wars novels that are published :smalltongue: .

Intellectual property is only protected because one doesn't want someone else making money off of your ideas. I don't think fanfiction sells a lot. The author is losing nothing.

[Sir_Norbert]

You're taking the characters that the author created without permission. That is their intellectual property. It is theft unless the characters are in the public domain (which is why Wicked and that horrid Pride and Prejudice with zombies idea are legal).
Let us not forget that the term "intellectual property" is a metaphor. Intellectual property is not a form of property, but by calling it property we express the opinion that it ought to be governed by laws analogous to those governing actual property. Analogous in some respects. What those respects should be is open to debate, and the question is too complex to be resolved simply by restating a metaphor and treating it as literal truth.

Use of another author's characters is also not theft; calling it theft is another metaphor, and this time one that I disagree with. It doesn't harm the original author in any way; in fact, it advertises their product. The analogous act in terms of ordinary property would be making and selling imitation Fabergé eggs, as a tourist souvenir shop might, without pretending to the customers that they are anything other than imitations. Should this be prohibited?

Since the question has come up, I will state my own opinion. I do believe in intellectual property to an extent; I certainly believe that if I write and publish a novel, it's wrong for someone else to publish the same novel under their name and claim it as their own. That really would be analogous to theft: taking away something that is rightfully mine. But I emphatically do not believe that writing a novel should give me any right to prevent others using my setting, characters, ideas or trademark phrases; I find the idea as ridiculous as my example of prohibiting the selling of imitation eggs. As others have pointed out, this expanded notion of intellectual property is a very modern idea -- Shakespeare would have had no sympathy with it -- and not an inherent law of the universe. But this is just my opinion. If I know that a particular author does not like people writing fan fiction based on their work, then I will respect that out of courtesy, but I don't think they should have the right to force me to comply.

[The Blackbird]

Fanfictions okay, I enjoy it sometimes.

But do I write fanfiction? It depends if this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109869) is counted as fanfiction, it's suppose to be a pridiction, but a lot of it seems to far-fetched one could call it fanfiction.

I suppose I tell fanfiction stories. But it's different from usual fanfiction, I take an obscure, maybe 1 time character and give that character a back story.

[13_CBS]

Intellectual property is only protected because one doesn't want someone else making money off of your ideas. I don't think fanfiction sells a lot. The author is losing nothing.


Well, to nitpick, it depends on the country. In places like Japan, fan comics of various media (typically anime, manga, and visual novels) are sold at conventions, and the authors of such fan works are quite rarely, if ever, sued for what they do.

However, as you say, the authors of the original works don't lose anything even for sold fan works like doujinshi.

Also, the best fanfiction aren't just Mona Lisas with mustaches drawn on them (the dregs of the lot may be, perhaps, but certainly not the best ones). As a previous poster has said, it's more like redrawing the Mona Lisa from a different perspective. For example, how would the Mona Lisa look like if it were underwater? Or viewed from above, or below, or from behind?

[Rutskarn]

Honestly, fanfiction is no more bound by Sturgeon's Law than anything else.

I abstain from most of it like the plague, but there are a few exceptions.


This one Freedom Force fanfic that explored a character being turned in a Kill-a-rilla, one of the disposasble Nazi henchmen. Stumbled onto it while randomly perusing an Irrational forum for info on when the skinning tools were coming out, stopped in on a whim, didn't regret it.
The following meta WoW fiction, by Shamus Young. Not what you think it is. (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1735)
For obvious reasons, Half Life: Full Life Consequences. If you're curious, go for the YouTube version.

[Nameless]

My Immortal: Best. FanFic. EVER! :smallbiggrin:
Everyone Secretly loves it. EVEN YOU! :smallamused:

[Linkavitch]

I like fanfic. Occasionally. When it's written about a game, like one I read recently, it took all the dialog and story from the LoZ: Twilight Princess game, and then threw in what Link was feeling and thinking, and did a good job of it. But, most of the time, it's just crap, and I don't read past the first page or so before I either break out in tears over how dumb it is, and stop reading, or think, "Huh, this is a really interesting and possibly realistic view on this universe/these characters/the rest of this story."

[Athaniar]

I enjoy writing Warcraft fan-fiction at least, most is stored here (http://warcraftfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:WoWWiki-Xavius), and here (http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Xavius/ModelArt) is some stuff I made with the model viewer that may count as fan art. Fan-fiction is a good thing, I believe, it allows fans to express themselves within their favorite universes, and it does not hurt the original work in any way, since it is not official.

[LesterLester]

Haven't read much fanfiction apart from 'Love can bloom' and some short stories. Much as other posters I think fanfiction can be interesting when well written but there is also tons of mediocre and outright terrible fanfiction out there.
I am just not fan enough of particular shows or video games to feel the need to read more stories involving the characters and the universe.