Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, MK XII - Raiders of the Lost Snark

[Domochevsky]

Welcome to the twelfth thread dedicated to discussing, or, more accurately, mocking and snarking, the Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire (http://dominic-deegan.com/) webcomic - now with 500% more indistinguishable Orcfaces, 100% less dying and a good chance of someone being saved!
Lets gather all 5 clans and dance at the last mountain in celebration! :smallbiggrin:

Chronology
Thread I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26550) - 77 pages, the first half of which actually contained praise yet. Then Snowsong came about...
Thread II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53160) - the epic one, 301 pages, OVER NINE THOUSAAAND posts. Here the foundations of Domiology - our snarky fanon - were created.
Thread III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82855) - 63 pages of snarky goodness, first one to contain the archives in the first post.
Thread IV (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87587) - 50 pages, the one that carried us through the first half of the horrid Vacation Arc and brought the first actual fans into our threads (of course, their resolve starts to falter by now :smalltongue:)
Thread V (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91533) - 50 pages, the Vacation Arc continues to our unimaginable horror.
Thread VI (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94191) - 50 pages, the final part of the vacation. So much to be learnt about walls and limbs; knowledge that Mookie, unfortunately, shall never possess.
Thread VII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96181) - 50 pages, finally the Plot Creature caught up - but what has Mookie done to Celesto and TIM?
Thread VIII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98206) - 51 pages, wherein Dex rises from the dead and we are introduced to Sn'gl'euth'u, the cutest extradimensional Lovecraftian being since Hello Cthulhu.
Thread IX (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100412) - 50 pages, which taught us that orcs not only have despicable traditions, they are also completely insane.
Thread X (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105160) - 50 pages, which taught us that orcs are not only completely insane, they are actually crazy enough to make Cthulhu roll Sanity checks!
Thread XI (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108632) - 51 pages, in wich the orcs are at their height of insanity (going one step beyond), Luna is the designated Messiah of Everything and that tusks make you speshul.

And our sister threads:
Strip Slays, the best thread ever (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37014)
Strip Slays 2: the best thread strikes back (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91628)
Strip Slays 3: I'm going to slay this slowly... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108763)
If the madness of this thread does not suffice to bring your SAN rating down, those will. For sure. :smallcool:
Dominic Deegan - The Second Coming (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99280) - the on-going Dominic Deegan rewrite, where everyone can contribute!

And of course, the Dominic Deegan Wiki (http://dominic-deegan.wikia.com/).

There is also an Archive of all Dominic Deegan threads (http://www.frozeninfinity.de/austausch/dd_snark_backup.rar), courtesy of Whoracle.

The Encyclopedia Dominica
THE ENCYCLOPEDIA DOMINICA!
created by the joint efforts of all the Mookiemockers in this very thread, working tiredlessly to reveal the secrets and inner workings of the Deeganverse and the broken plots, drawings and writing of our most favourite (to make fun of) author.

Aberthast Cathedral
Resocialization centre. People who go there return as mindless sheep in service to the Dominus. It is a horrible place, where - no, please, no, don't take me, take Oracle_Hunter instead, please, it was him who---
Nothing to see here, citizen. Keep going. The Dominic is Your Friend.

Acibek's Principle
Makes any spell better for just about zero extra effort, even when chucked into a spell as an afterthought. Nobody really knows what it does, not even the Lord Dominus, just that it is better.
Basically the magic equivalent to painting vehicles red.

Airships
Magical boats that fly through the air at approximately twice the speed of plot, which can therefore only catch up for brief moments while the ship is in dock for extended periods. The planks on an airship change direction from moment to moment, possibly as a result of its powerful magic.

Ass Shot, Inappropriate
Is a myth, or maybe propaganda spread by vile Mookiemockers opposed to the just rule of Lord Dominus. There is, in fact, no situation which cannot be improved by showing the behind of a female character. Especially well suited are scenes when the character in question is either dying, traumatised, despaired or fighting her former friends. In short, drama and tragedy are enhanced by ass shots. The more you know!

Balloon Boobs
A sexual ideal. Albeit I don't want to know for whom.

Callan
Basically the US in a supposedly (but not really) medieval setting, this unfortunate realm has drawn the relentless wrath of the Dominus upon itself. Therefore, it's failings must be pointed out and despised (instead of tolerated, accepted and embraced, as would be the case with other nations).
The population consists of either mindless sheep (see Deegandrug) or ignorant racists (who happen to be 100% spot on with their prejudices).
It is also hated by everyone else.
Because.

Caste
See Caste System.

Caste System
The Deeganverse has a simple caste-system, with five castes with a strict hierarchy.

The First Caste is the Deegan Family; they have practically a monopoly on good karma in the Deeganverse. They are good, perfect, always right (including and especially if they are not), and ultimately always win. Association with Dominic is more important than the Deegan name, in this regard: Luna is First Caste, Jacob is not.
Examples: Dominic, Gregory, Luna.

The Second Caste are the Deegan Friends. They, too, are good and (save for occasional moral slips, like Pam's Incredibly Unjust Punishment of Dominic) moral, but lack the power to overcome anything on their own, and therefore need the Deegans to help them. With everything.
Examples: Pam, Milov, Jayden

The Third Caste are the Anti-Heroes. These are morally wrong, but are handsome, powerful and therefore worthy of being saved. The major difference between them and the Fourth Caste is that, while both often exhibit the very same negative traits, the Deegans arbitrarily decide that members of the Third Caste can be forgiven, whereas those of the Fourth Caste cannot. Even if the Third Caste members do things actually much worse.
Examples: Siegfried, Szark, Snowsong, probably Karnak, maybe Celesto

The Fourth Caste are the Enemies. They are precisely the same as the Third Caste, except that they are not redeemable. The reason is: Because. Yep, that's the entire reason. Fourth Caste is often, though not always, ugly, and almost comically over-the-top in their negative traits, prominently racism, and hating gays, (like Szark, who's gay).
Examples: Taggerty, Boris, any infernomancer

Fifth Caste is all the non-magical people who live their lives without any relevance to the plot.
Examples: per definition, Fifth Caste members do not have a name.

The Caste a character belongs to is determined at his birth and, save for a few exceptions, usually does not change. The actual deeds and alignment of a character do not matter: First and Second Caste characters can do things as evil as they wish to, and will be praised for that.
The only Caste-change which occurs often is from Third to Second: redeemed Anti-Heroes ultimately become Deegan Friends. The most prominent examples of this are Szark Sturtz and Bumper. A rarer case might have occured with regard to Celesto: arguably, by blowing Dominic's leg away, the fool might have sealed his fall from Third to Fourth Caste.
Another Caste change could be observed rather recently with the initiation of Nimmel's ascension to First Caste.

Celesto 5
Our last best hope for Dominic's fall.

Cheap
See Death.

Cheekmouth
A common affliction in the Deeganverse, this horrible disease causes the victims to mutate into horrible things with a seperate mouth on both of their cheeks. Other side effects include a higher willingness to worship the Dominus, racism and inconsistency.

Chimney
Since glasswood is the only kind of lumber that has been positively identified by the people of the Deeganverse as such, they are forced to use it for the purpose of warming their houses. Burning glasswood produces a smoke so thin, so volatile that it can pass through solid bricks, allowing the Fifth-Casters to not build hollow chimneys in their fireplaces. Instead, they build solid brick columns. However, while glasswood smoke can pass through bricks, it doesn't pass through cloth. For this reason, people wanting to look all badass and cool often prowl atop these chimneys, so that their capes will billow out dramatically, lifted by the fumes.
A side-effect of glasswood fumes is terminal stupidity.
Possibly the source of the Deegandrug. See Deegandrug, Glasswood.

Churchspace
A place for holding currently unused characters, while redeeming them if necessary. See also Aberthast Cathedral.

Dancing
An awkward ritual whose primary function is to be a source of ass shots. Except in Semash(i), where it is a substitute for debates, brawls, and warfare. It doesn't seem to involve a lot of motion, though: See "Ass-shot, Inappropriate".

Death
An event which, if directed against higher Caste members, is tragic enough for The Dominic to be sad. Possibly even for as much as ten minutes. But don't worry, it is a highly temporary affliction, since deceased higher Caste members can reincarnate to keep protecting the main characters. Even if it includes dying again.
See also Cheap.
If applied to Fourth Caste members, on the other hand, it is a reason to celebrate. These tend to be gone permanently, too.

Deegandrug
An air-born substance released by the First Caste into the air. Causes sheep-like obliviousness to the First Caste's failings, blind following and deep admiration for all of the First Caste's deeds. Only few remain immune to the Deegandrug's effects.

Demonic Badass Leadership Disfunction
A law of nature states: The bad-assness of a demon lord is inversely proportional to his skills as leader. The stronger and combat-capable any given demon lord is, the more unlucky he will get with his followers: They will upstage, overthrow, betray and ridicule him. Thus any sense of bad-assness is drained from the comic again, and natural order is restored. All bad-assness to the First Caste!

Disfigurement
A thing of beauty, which must under no circumstances be removed. But who would want to do that, anyway? Other girls and boys love hideous disfigurements! Isn't that good to know, kids?

Dominic
The immaculate self-insertion character, the All-Seeing Eye who is never wrong and solves any problem before the problem even knows it is about to occur. His morals are not to be questioned (even if questionable), he is always right (especially when he is wrong), and his defeats can be but temporary. His mind is superior to demon lords, his perfection knows no bounds. Lord of the First Caste. The Dominus. Loved by all, particularly by Szark (he's a gay who loves other men).

Dynamic Panel Layout
A way to put the plot on hold for a week. Means that the same layout will be used throughout that week each and every day, but it's a different layout than usual. Yay?

FaRIA
The land of elves, where nobility is decided by whether trees like you. These guys are so amazing they can pronounce certain letters in lower case. The magic of FaRIA protects its residents from plot.

Fairies, Nipple
Nefarious creatures who steal the nipples of sentient creatures, and are largely responsible for the lack of nipples in Dominion. Merfolk are particularly badly-afflicted. Some say the fairies steal nipples for food, others for construction materials, while some insist that they are merely thralls to some greater power (see "Progenitor").

Fangly
A cute little symbiote that resides upside down under Luna's nose, this delightful parasite feeds on Luna's emotions but inverts them. In layman's terms, when Luna is happy, Fangy is sad, and vice versa. It is likely that the Travorias knew of Fangly's existence, and tormented Luna in order to cheer Fangly up.

Forsaken
Characters meant to appear in the strip and then forgotten for such long periods of time readers had already given up hope of seeing them ever when they finally arrived. Include the Oracle Hunter and Huk Thak. See Trailer.

Glasswood
This curious tree is the main source of building material in the Deeganverse - probably, because the inhabitants have not figured out that the green triangular mountains surrounding them are trees as well. They are hardly to blame for that. Unfortunately, glasswood has very poor properties as building material, for, true to its name, it is prone to shattering in a glass-like manner. For this reason, higher Castes prefer to live in stone-houses, while listening gleefully to the painful screams of the lower Castes as those are slashed to shreds by their walls and furniture. See Trees.
A second theory persists, however, which maintains that glasswood is actually not wood at all, and that lower Castes instead choose to build their houses out of baked pottery painted to appear like wood. Which, again, would be well within the limits of their stupidity, lacking a First Caste character to lead them.

Gregory
A brainwashed god.

Hobgoblins
Unpredictable creatures who act based on the results of a D20. Little is known about their language, but attempts to communicate have revealed that the hobgoblins are in possession of a large supply of babel fish. Those who do communicate believe that the word "Arf" roughly translates to "Hail Dominus". Very susceptible to the Deegandrug.

Homosexuality
There are gay people in Dominion. They are not to be considered inferior in any manner to heterosexuals, which was elegantly expressed by homosexual relationships being only played for laughs and consistently portrayed as shallow and meaningless. See Szark (he's gay)

Hope
A strange substance often held in abundance by Dominic Deegan fans, but which we snarkers syphon off using agressive cynicism to use as fuel. Typically found in abundance at the beginning of every new arc, but wanes as time goes on.

Huk-Thak
A sacred orc weapon whose use is outlawed by most governments as a breach of human rights. While nominally a simple double-bladed spear, this weapon, when used properly, actually makes an indiscriminate attack on the mental faculties of those around it, leading to horrific trauma caused by bad dialogue. Because of this, this weapon is very adept at killing. It is believed that the weapon may in fact have a crude form of sentience as it has expressed in the past a desire to kill Melna.

Ilka Tuk Tak
Ilka Tuk Tak is the most excessively overused expression in the Orcish language, featuring in just about every second Orcish sentence. Long time presumed a swearword, it is now theorized that, due to the limited expressiveness of the orc facial features (in no small part to be blamed on the excessively unwieldy cheek-mouths and prominent snouts), Ilka Tuk Tak is an auditory indication that the speaker is undergoing an emotional state of surprise or disbelief. The reason it isn't translated is simply because there isn't an equivilant word or phrase in human dialects.
Alternately, the entire Orcish race suffers from a particularly nasty case of Tourette's Syndrome.

Illusions
Problem solvers. No, really! There's no problem a well placed illusion could not solve! One might kinda call them Deus Ex Machinas, but that would be mean, right?
They are also well suited for fun activities, like children birthday parties or horribly traumatising friends. Fun times!

Infernomancer
Unlike other noble wizards, infernomancers are not nerds; they are just jocks who purchase (magic) steroids from shady demon dealers.[/QUOTE]

Inquisition
Prominently lead by h_v, the Inquisition serves to cart off all the heretic posters on this thread who dare to speak the name of Our Lord Dominus, Who Sees Everything, The Great Manipulator, The One Behind The Strings without proper reverence to Aberthast Cathedral. Main enforcer of the Dominus' control.
Noone expects the Deegan Inquisition!

Invisible King
The evil ruler of Callan who never appears or does anything in the strip, lord of the government. Which is evil. And never seen either.
We do not know why the government or the king are evil or why they do what they do, because they never actually appear in the strip to present their case, but since they are a government, they obviously must be evil. This is political sophistication for you.
Alternately, them being evil might be only propaganda, for they seem to be one of the last groups not yet under the Dominus' manipulative control.

Jocks
People who mocked Mookie in school, and therefore are Fourth Caste material destined to die horribly.

Klo-Tark
Why won't he die?! WHY WON'T HE DIE?!

Legs
Biological symbiotes that fuse with Dominion Apes at or close to birth, and usually remain present throught said ape's life. However, atmospheres of extreme stress or inappropriateness can sometimes cause one or more to camouflage themselves for protection, or even detach from their owners temporarily to seek refuge. This has no noticable effect, as best evidenced by the Dominus himself, who got bored of one of his legs and guided Raf Maliksh into getting him rid of the damn thing.

LiveJournal
Basically Evil Twin Universe us. I can only assume there's each and every one of us represented there, with a goatee, babbling genuine praise towards Mookie and Lord Dominus. Also known as sheep.

Luna
The First Puppet. Tusks.

Lynn's Brook
The little town of Lynn's Brook is a most wretched haven for jocks and other worthless Fourth Caste scum, cursed with the Dominus' uttermost contempt. While this was formerly believed to be mere happenstance, newer research hints at a much darker nature of this accursed trap. Lynn's Brook harbour a malicious source of evil power which corrupts everything in the town's vicinity, lowering intelligence and Caste status of everyone who stays in it for too long. Many of the town's inhabitants may well have formerly been innocent Fifth Caste or even good-hearted Third and Second Caste members, before the Horror of Lynn's Brook changed them into the monsters they are now. Sometimes single positive character traits they used to have before Lynn's Brook devoured them can still shimmer through. Even a short stay in this accursed region suffices to bestow a character with horrid deeds in his past. This is also what kept the Dominus' power in check while he still lived there, depowering him and greatly lessening his Sueness.
Even though it might appear Lynn's Brook was destroyed by TIM and Celesto, it still lives on, for Lynn's Brook is far more than just a town; it lives, it feeds... it grows.
A rumour says that if one speaks the town's name with the order of the two words inverted, one's brain will explode.

Magic
...sometimes is just Magic.

Maltak
A land that is a phenomenon even by Dominion's standards. It allegedly used to be a grassy plain, but nowadays it's a desert. It's a very curious desert, however - it's unique properties allow people to hide and attack from ambush despite the area being completely featureless. One possible explanation is that in Maltak, Dominion's poorly defined laws of nature turn to those of a JRPG, where invisible random encounters stray loose. Also, it might be theorized that before it was turned into a desert, vegetables grew on Maltak in a matter of days, as it's the case on the magically restored pieces of grassland.

Manipulation
Desirable.

Mavpel
Long thought a relatively harmless (if addicting) candy, this substance is in fact the foundation of the First Caste’s powers. Using specialised glands, they transform Mavpel into the chemical known as the Deegandrug and expel it as a gas (see “Deegandrug”). Mavpel deprivation can lead to psychological breakdown in the First Caste, with symptoms including outbursts of berserk rage, drastically-lowered Mary-Sue levels and a higher-than-usual drive to mind rape. Ambitious lower-caste members can use this to their advantage, as when Cassafin usurped Dominus’ rightful position as headteacher.
The only known location of Mavpel plantations is the Winter Archipelago, increasing its importance to the First Caste and explaining the teleportation ban there. The supply of Mavpel was cut off by the Archipelago recently, possibly as part of a werewolf rebellion, but the crisis was resolved when the “archtraitor” Milov broke the embargo and granted the Dominus his own personal Mavpel supply.

Merfolk
Deceptive jerks who deserve whatever they get. Whatever they get.

Miranda
The heavy artillery. As long as Dominic's mother remains around, we can rest assured that even if something should go awry, the good guys can always call on this Deus Ex Momina support. That helps to not make things too exciting.

Mirror
The perfect psychological instrument, heals any depression, insecurities, mental trauma and shyness, may also induce a complete 180 degree personality flip. This occurs by the character taking 5 minutes to remind her or himself of their successes or the necessecity for them to behave that way.
It is unknown why Mookie has not yet patented this method, since it would easily replace all psychiatrists on the planet.
Note that a physical mirror is not necessarily required; it's the 5 minutes reflection that counts.

Mookie
See Dominic. Sans perfection.

Mookinsertion
A strange creature, of which two races, mookius vulgaris and mookius nobilis, have been identified so far. Distinguished for their intellect and flawlessness, Mookinsertions are living avatars of the Mookie on the physical plane, and are, as such, immortal - the most lethal weapons will cause only minor injuries to a Mookinsertion, which will (of course) be forgotten as soon as the arc is over. Typically, a Mookinsertion lives in human disguise for up to thirty years, before it begins its metamorphosis to a fully grown Mookie Sue. This process can be easily observed in a rapid rise through the Castes - within only a few years, a Mookinsertion can grow from Fifth Caste to Second, bordering First.
A mookius vulgaris is lauded for its intellect and skills at all times, and may even every now and then save the day.
A mookius nobilis is Dominic Deegan. 'Nuff said.

Mooklone
A humanoid that looks just like all the other humanoids in its vicinity. While all Dominion Apes are Mooklones to an extent, as often only cosmetic details (such as hairstyle or their choice of clothing symbiont) can tell them apart, the true Mooklones are identical even in these aspects. While common enough amongst humans, Mooklones are very widespread amongst orcs. The Bikta clan in particular seems to be a colony (or maybe quarantine zone) for these creatures.

Moon
A huge, gargantuan round orb that is always in the background. How it accomplishes that feat is unknown yet.

Murder
Minor infraction. May cause Death. Easily redeemable (see Caste System, Redemption).

Nagastrali
Home of four-armed fish people and the world's only dragon.

Nineteen Eighty-Four
Main inspiration for Dominic Deegan.
Okay, not really, but for a major part of our MST3King anyway.

Orcs
Noble savages. Can save by rape.

Perspective
Is a lie told by Mookie's stupid art professor who didn't even like his awesome anime drawings.

Plot
A psychological disorder, leading to people behaving temporarily or permanently in a way completely inconsistent with their character as established previously (see Mirror).

Progenitor
Far removed from the turmoil of civilisation, just beyond the Edge of the Dominus' sphere of influence, lives a creature that is above time, nature, and even the Caste System itself. Few know of its existance, and whisper its many titles with fear and adoration: The Alpha. The Progenitor. The Anchor of Dominion. For none dare to call upon it by its true, world-shaking name: Bort.
First being to be shaped by the Mookreator's hand (and, admittedly, his shape does reveal a certain... lack of experience on this omnipotent god's part), the Progenitor is capable of re-writing reality on a whim, break continuity and drain any sense from his surroundings - clearly attributes he shares with the Mookreator himself and signs of his divine descent!
The Progenitor stands above the castes, and even the Dominus himself felt the need to bow down and do hard physical work for the Progenitor, which the latter could have easily accomplished in seconds - the grand manipulator finally found his master. Whether this was for fear of drawing his elder brother's wrath upon him, or whether the Dominus fell victim of the powerful Deegandrug that forced him to accept the superiority of a being of an even higher caste than his own remains a mysterium of Domiology.

Puns
The highest form of humour, and don't let anyone who isn't Mookie tell you differently! Perfectly suitable to any situation, be it everyday conversation or severe and traumatic loss of loved ones, because they do not harm drama! At all!

Races
There are two kinds: Callanians and Non-Callanians. The former are mostly individuals, but pay for this by having much more severe moral standards applied to them (see Callan).
Non-Callanians, on the other hand, are defined by single traits. Which is not racist at all. Obviously.
Of course, there are still single individuals who break with their races customs and redeem them that way, because, even though other cultures' traditions are great, they can't possibly be as great as our own, right?

Racism
See Death.

Rape
Salvation, if administered by a noble savage, preferably of Orcish heritage.

Rays, Manta
Ridden on saddleback despite all blatant safety hazards. Possibly immune to the Deegandrug.

Redemption
Handed out arbitrarily. Minor crimes, like murder, are redeemed easily, rendering everyone completely oblivious to them. Worse crimes, like speaking badly about the Deegans or thinking about other cultures in a somewhat critical way, however, cannot be redeemed (see Caste System). Even if they are, they still may lead to Spontaneous Fourth Caste Reemersion Syndrome.

Red Shirt Soup Wench
A very special specimen of the Fifth Caste species, this curious creature can live for as long as thirty years apart of the protagonists. However, sooner or later, in a fashion similar to lemmings' mass suicide, these beings are drawn into the proximity of First and Second Caste members, where their function is to serve them soup (though rarer sub-species have been observed to secrete other liquid beverages instead). When they do so, they produce special pheromones, which can be perceived by the current story arc's antagonist and throw him or her into a murderous frenzy, which does not end until the Red Shirt Soup Wench has been slaughtered horribly. Considering how unlikely it is that such a creature would have evolved on its own, it is probable that Red Shirt Soup Wenches have been genetically engineered by the First Caste to make their opponents look more bad-ass, and thus enhance the glory of the First Caste when they defeat them in the end.

Semashi
A mysterious people who steal beauty from other cultures and resolve any and all disputes with dance-offs. Their skin tone, like their country's name, varies from day to day. Being humans, some Semashi are allowed personalities even though they're not Callanian.

Seer
Apparently some other term for 'deity', albeit much less likeable due to its scheming, manipulative ways.

Snout
The horrible malformation of the nose/mouth-region, implanted into prisoners in Aberthast Cathedral and into any new-born child. It probably serves to improve the inhalation of the Deegandrug.

Sn'gl'euth'u ("Snuggly" for short):
The "avatar of snuglyness" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5451070&postcount=780); a being of purity and innocence from the planes beyond all reason and imagination (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2004-04-14), resembling an amoeboid eyeball surrounded by a mass of tentacles.
Though his exact motives are unknown, Snuggly is a kind and simple creature who just wants friends and hugs. As a being from an isolated plane, Snuggly was very lonely. He befriended Tim when the latter was cast into his dimension by Miranda Deegan. He tried to befriend Celesto, but Celesto--being the loner that he is--rejected Snuggly's offer and fled. After the attack on Lynn's Brook, Dominic met Snuggly during his attempt to scry on Celesto. Unfortunately, Snuggly's strangely cute appearance did not conform to Lord Dominus' standards of goodness; naturally, Dominic blamed Snuggly for the recent troubles and attacked him.

Soul Displacing Mookie Possession Syndrome (SDMPS)
Even the existance of self-insertion Mookie Sues and the wide spread of the Plot plague do not suffice sometimes for Mookie's broadcast of his enlightened world-view and ethical opinions. In such cases, the force of Mookie can temporarily take possession of a character to force him to do Mookie's bidding. The character completely turns into a mouthpiece for Mookie's messages. A much more dangerous mutation of this affliction is the Karma Balancing Soul Displacing Mookie Possession Syndrome (SDMPS-KB), where Mookie specifically possesses Third and Fourth Caste characters to force them to deal completely just and not at all exaggerated punishment on other Fourth Caste characters, such as womanizers and people who happen to be athletic, who may spontaneously pop or be mutilated to a never-ending unholy existance of eternal torment and agony. In spite of its dangerousness, this is a very important thing to the ecological balance of the Deeganverse, for it keeps the hands of First and Second Caste members free of blood, while dealing appropriately with people Mookie finds somewhat unsympathetic. See also: Mookinsertion, Plot.

Spine
Overrated. Noone in the Deeganverse uses these anymore.
Same goes for all anatomy, really.

Spontaneous Fourth Caste Reemersion Syndrome
A highly dangerous condition, lethal in 100% of all cases, so far incurable. It may occur in redeemed Third Caste members if their previous failings were grave enough (i.e. murder would not induce SFCRS, but being displeased with another culture's murdersome traditions might). The effect is an aura of Fourth Castiness in an otherwise Second Caste character, which may resurface at any time, thus causing the Deeganverse to believe the character is evil and must be purged.

Strip Slays
Pure awesomeness. averagejoe, ElfLad, Mewtarthio and Turcano are just a few of the grandiose artists who turn meager B-strips into victory with win on top.

SuperGreg Aardvark
An abomination that must not be spoken of.

Szark
A gay man, gay in a gay way, he's skilled in swordfighting, maintaining position as Third Caste, and being gay. For more information on gay people (including Szark), See Homosexuality, for information on the man Szark loves (because he's gay), See Dominic, for information on the scum who hate Szark, and other gays (like Szark), See Fourth Caste.

Tentacle Rape
Umm... let's change the subject, shall we?

That Which Is Quoted
Attention duelists! My hair wants to warn you of the dangers of reading this thread if you have not watched Yu-Gi-Oh: The Abridged Series. If you ever want to watch this series without having every joke spoiled pre-emptively, my hair reccommends you watch it now or stay away from the thread... In America!

Trailer
Mookie's attempts to make it seem that something is happening, or at least will happen at some point in the future. A good bunch of trailers were forgotten, thus creating the Forsaken.
Might also be a genuine attempt of Mookie to find out just what the hell he is doing. This might explain such questions like "Who is XXX?" or "What does YYY want?".

Trees
Green mountains with snow on top. Weird.

Tucklebruck Island
A place so idyllic that its occupants, dwarves and halflings, have nothing better to fight about than what type of alcohol the others like. Major exporter of bizarre, sometimes toxic beer, teddy bears, and pictures of the Dominus being punched in the balls.

TVTropes
The lifetime stealing device employed by Oracle_Hunter to fuel his ingenious evil plans (I'm on to you, pal!). Contains all the wisdom of mankind and the explanation for every dumb turn the comic takes - if you can find them.

Violin
A strange, flat, solid instrument played with the wooden back of a bow.

Wall, Inappropriate
A recently introduced (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-01-20) character, originally mistaken for a chimney despite the lack of a fume outlet, the Wall has since reappeared in FaRIA (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-06-03), land of the elves, and followed Dominic and Luna around the world, apparently drawn to exceedingly absurd and/or clichéd situations.
Its evident purpose is best explained by its inanity: always spotted where it is obviously useless, yet seeming to be a natural part of its surroundings as well. It also has to be noted when it was shown: The first time, a stereotypical mysterious cloaked assassin knelt on it. The second time, it was embedded in the structure of a clichéd elf village. Afterwards, it showed up in the Wild Edge Territories (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-09-04), in a compound otherwise surrounded by wooden palisades (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-09-05), when Luna and Dominic heroically saved Stunt from getting fired by telling his employer how he risked their lives and contravened her instructions. Its last sighting (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-10-05) was in Semash, directly after Scarlatti’s rather peculiar behavior which probably attracted it.
This character is obviously meant to illustrate that behind the cliché, behind the generic fantasy tale, behind this mask that appears almost too familiar lies a world of absurdity.
The fact that this is achieved by randomly placing an everyday object like a brickwall inmidst a city or other settlement, where it would normally belong yet doesn’t truly makes it a dadaist masterpiece.

Werewolves
Schrödinger beings, fluctuating between people in furry suits and raging racists prone to murderous frenzies. Best left alone, which fits well with the theme of them wanting to be left alone, being an isolationist, territorial species. Except for 90% of them, who are open-minded towards strangers.

Winter Archipelago
In Winter Archipelago, Mookie mocks you!

Why We Snark - Collective Responses of a Thread of Snarkers
Since every few weeks somebody comes around and asks us why, if we apparently hate the Dominic Deegan comic so much, we still keep reading it instead of deleting it from our bookmarks. This post shall serve as a collection of all our stances on the comic and why we keep reading it after all, so that we can refer the person asking to this post (or just quote it), and be done with it.

Anyone who wants his opinion mentioned here - or who wants his previous statement changed - shall tell me so, so I can edit this post.


rubakhin
Honestly? I get more entertainment out of all the snark than I would probably get from Dominic Deegan if it were a good strip.

Also, it's interesting to read as a writer. For the same reason why in writing groups you're encouraged to listen to the critiques directed at other members as well. You learn a lot whenever you see the flaws in a work of fiction being dissected like this. You get a better feel for what works, what doesn't, and why.


Winterwind
Most (all?) of us used to enjoy reading DD and, when it went bad, stayed in the hope it might recover. Meanwhile, we kept discussing the comic, which invariably ended in mocking its failings. Over time, we found that mocking the comic is far more funny and enjoyable than the comic ever was even before its great fall. I presume you did not read this thread, else you would have noticed what this thread has spawned. There were many sides long parodies of Dominic's over-manipulativeness comparing the comic to 1984. There were parodies on his Mary Sue'ness, drawing an analogy to the Inquisition. There were such things as the Encyclopaedia Dominica, or just utterly bizarre and mind-blowing stories and explanations for the comic's logical fallacies. The strip slay thread, undeniably funny, is just the other side of the same coin, where this thread is the other - more of the same parody, except now in words, not in images.
Delete it from our bookmarks? Are you freakin' kidding me? Why the hell would we want to block ourselves from the fun which is this thread?


MReav
Originally I read DD because at first it was kinda cute and funny, and the consistent updates were a welcome change from some of my more favoured webcomics at the time (namely, Captain SNES). Yeah, the preachiness was annoying, as was the constant portrayal of common people as ignorant thugs, but I could skip those comics by and large. But it got a lot worse.

Now I read DD because it's kinda like watching a trainwreck in slow motion. It's entertaining in a MST3K sort of way now, going over with fellow mockers the incredible amounts of Mary Sue-ness, the idiot plots, the poor art, the attempts at the fetishistic, the rampant anti-jock sentiment (which I really think was derived from watching college films than any real human interaction), the Deus Ex Machinas, the gobs of poorly-thought-out Fantastic Racism, and all the other entertainingly bad actions of the comic and its writer.

I won't bash Mookie too much, since I don't pay for his comic nor is anyone making me keep the bookmark, but since his comic is on the web for all to see, I'll enjoy snarking about it over here.


averagejoe
If I could appreciate this thread, and strip slays, without reading the strip, I probably would. I've tried to quit several times, but these guys keep drawing me back!


M0rt
I can already say that I'm reading DD primarily out of curiosity- I want to see what will author screw up this time. But reading strips to them being mocked here is fun as hell too.


Oracle_Hunter
As I've said before, DD is compelling for me because of Mookie's guileless writing style. He is probably well read, and is in any case well familiar with a wide variety of Tropes, and he can even put a plot together in a Fridge Logic kind of way.

Yet, despite all this apparent sophistication, the man writes Eragon-level stuff. Vastly derivative and often very loopy... yet he is not like the average attempted webcomic writer. He occupies a twilight realm between Total Crap and Graphic Novel Writer and that makes him unique, and worthy of study.

Nobody else can do what Mookie does, for better or for worse.


CrazyFatGoblin
I personally read DD for literary ideas, for Mookie *does* have some good ideas, but really sucks at execution. Well, if he *did* have execution, it'd be awesome, but thats not the point.
I read DD to try and wonder what it would be like if such and such happened, or if Mookie was actually good at writing.
I read DD because Mookie is a *genius*, transporting his readers in a masterpiece of suffering so powerful, a few weak-willed ones do not even realize they are suffering, and ask for more. I read DD because I cannot look away, same as if a trainwreck was shown on constant loop.
I read DD because the madness that is Mookie is fascinating, like a book that cannot abide, yet still read to find out what happens in the end.
In short, I read DD because, quite simply, I desire what twisted knowledge Mookie has at his disposal to make us suffer so. What could I do with that knowledge?


Spiryt
The whole problem is that we (or at least I) don't hate that comic. I, in fact, think that it will be rather silly thing to hate damn poor internet comic.

I just recently discovered that making fun of it is good entertainment.

I however had Stoped Reading : some strips appeared so horrible to me (Sword of Centuries... Arghhh) that I literally hadn't dared to read them.


kukn
The reasons are varied. Mostly, I wouldn't call it hatred, at least not for me. The posts here are mostly an intellectual excersise in criticism and satire. Which is fun. (It can get a bit too much at times, a negative stance makes people see only the negative side of DD, often twisting neutral or even good aspects of a strip into yet more negativism.)

We can get a bit full of ourselves here, to be fair. But then, we're only human.


Johnny Blade
It all starts with the author, here, because you must think of DD not only as a webcomic that tells a story or tries to be funny, although it briefly (for the first few arcs) fell into the latter category. No, DD also serves as a means for Mookie to preach his opinionated world-view and show the greatness of his self-insertion, the namesake of this train wreck.
Well, I guess it’s unnecessary to discuss why a blatant Mary-Sue who knows everything about the setting, is always right, served as the chosen savior of the world and can solve almost every problem with his convoluted, logically questionable plans is not a sign of good writing.

So on to Mookie whoring out his opinions. First, it is done in a totally obvious way – the villains seldom let a chance to say how racist/sexist/homophobic they are pass, and don’t get me started on the “Nerds always get their revenge.” thing.
Second, it gets creepy from time to time. Well, often. Examples include Mookie using Celesto, one of the Third Caste (arguably) villains, to brutally kill Brett Taggerty as punishment for being a jock (by the way, there’s only one jock who isn’t stereotyped) and Mookie using Jacob, another Third Caste member, to torture Neilen as punishment for being a womanizer trying to get into Luna’s pants.
Third, Mookie is a pseudo-liberal hypocrite, though I don’t even know if he’s truly aware of this. Yes, racism is bad, but the cultures besides the United States of Wapan/Callan that he has shown us consist of noble savages oppressing their women and living in barbarism or bipolar nudist werewolves who are racists themselves. And yes, homophobia is bad, but yet Szark-who-is-gay’s sexuality is played for laughs where nobody else’s is (exception: Gregory, who now has a girl) and he is apparently unable to have any romantic feelings besides those for Dominic, shown by his reaction to Alseltio’s death. And yes, sexism is bad, too, but even though Mookie seems to be careful here, just take a look at Luna. A wonderful, intelligent, caring and whatnot woman, blah blah. Yet she obsesses about a (minor) physical detail and needs Dominic to save her from herself. Granted, this type of female character is an archetype in and of itself, but it really is a sort of damsel in distress who had the dragon holding her captive replaced by society and a bad childhood.
Fourth, Mookie likes to bash the United States in a way resembling Michael Moore. Callan is full of idiots, tries to invade another country every now and then and is run by an evil government of some sort. The Encyclopedia lists this as the Invisible King, but I guess it really is a president who came into office through election fraud by devising a system that didn’t count the votes of all Orcs in the country.

Then, there’s Mookie’s inconsistent world-building. Not only does it seem to be a really small world, given how at least Dominic apparently has friends everywhere. No, it’s also full of anachronisms which aren’t explained anywhere. It is generally assumed magic does the trick here, although we interestingly don’t get to see too many wizards besides the protagonists and the populace of Lynn’s Brook (GAH!) were quite easily scared by magic.
This leads to another point: magic in general and illusions in particular can solve everything. Everything, I tell you. Drive away an angry mob, trick extremely powerful enemies even if they know about magic, fake your death (to calm down loved ones in a frenzy, for example) and whatever else it is you want – illusions can do it.

Add in horrible writing, best shown by the recent proposal: So, we have Luna, who actively helped Dominic manipulate everyone back during the Snowsong arc, even if it meant risking the life of Greg and the rest of Barthis. And then there is Dominic, who as always been really patient when it comes to Luna being the emo crybaby she often was. But all of a sudden, Luna is pissed off by Dominic’s puppet-mastery and Dominic finds Luna’s emotional problems annoying, although they weren’t actually significant as of late – all we had was Luna running around babbling about how she feels inferior, which probably was done by Mookie to signify she still has these problems. Great. So they tell each other how annoying they are, bicker around a little, don’t resolve their problems at all, and then…marry! Yay!
I won’t even comment on the Snowsong arc with its downright bizarre jump-the-shark moments and yet another instance of Dominic saving the day with an overly complicated scheme.
Mookie’s laughable art also has been mocked to an overdue death and I wholeheartedly recommend reading the Encyclopedia entries on Balloon Boobs, Glasswood, Snout and Trees on this subject.
Actually, one Encyclopedia Dominica article is enough to prove why Dominic Deegan is bad, so I’ll just stop here. I forgot what I was going to write, anyway. Hopefully, more will come later, though.

But you shouldn’t think I hate Dominic Deegan. Most of those who post here don’t. I actually find it one of the most entertaining webcomics around, because no one can do what Mookie does. Yes, there are other webcomics which are so bad they’re funny, but Dominic Deegan actually has a setting created for it, relatively complex arcs, an extensive cast etc., yet it is a horrible train wreck that just keeps going on and on. Like Ed Wood producing comics with the subtlety of Ayn Rand’s works instead of movies.
Seriously, just look at a random DD strip, sit back, and think about it for two minutes. It may drive you insane, but it will make you giggle in a fashion implying you are in any case.
Oh, and this wonderful thread here is a great reason to love Mookie’s stillborn brainchild, too.

___________

Not exactly part of our declarations why we keep reading the comic, but, as I feel, an important message to newcomers into this thread nevertheless:

Jerthanis
If you like the strip, don't read this thread. I'm serious and am not being a jerk... this thread will indoctrinate you if you're not careful. You'll come to realize things about the writing, characters, art and so on that you would have never noticed, but once you see them, you can't stop thinking about them.

Basically, if you enjoy the comic, please continue enjoying it and don't let us ruin your fun. If, at some point, you find yourself scratching your head, dry heaving, or the like, remember that lambasting it here is still a way to enjoy it still. The sad fact is that while it would be nice to have an alternate opinion around these boards, we've all been burned by the comic, and to varying degrees we're all stubborn about our reasons for not liking it. Either way, good luck.
___________
Listen to Jerthanis here, for his words are distilled truth.

This whole post has been pretty much entirely been stolen from Winterwind. :smallsmile:

[Domochevsky]

The Snarker Index

Here is an alphabetically sorted collection of all posters on these threads who posted when we made a call to see how many snarkers we have actually have around here. If you want your name added to the index as well, feel free to post your snarking details at any time.

The form for that is here:

Name:
Started Reading:
Joining GiTP Thread:
Starting Disposition:
Time to Convert:
Current Stance:

A very big thanks to Webox, who took the effort of going through the thread where we had our initial tally and copying out all the responses there out of it upon himself. :smallsmile:

Posters who, by their own declaration, are not snarkers (or at least still consider the comic to be good) are in blue. Considering the corruptive quality of these threads, it cannot be guaranteed this is still up to date at any given time. :smallwink:

A-K

Name: accountingninja
Started reading: From the beginning!
Joined GitP thread: Lurked a long time before jumping in just a few pages ago.
Starting disposition: I actually heard about DD from "Your Webcomic is Bad and You Should Feel Bad". I just had to see what rankled Solomon so. But in the beginning I didn't think it was THAT bad, except the puns, which I hate. So call me: Groaning a bit, but still engaged.
Time to convert (if applicable): During Battle of Barthis I began thinking, "This is stoopid!" But I may have been pre-biased because I'd already discovered this site.
Current stance: Oh, who could pass this up? It's just magnificently BAD! It's a GOLD MINE of laughs! I've always been an MST3K fan.

Name: Akedhi
Started Reading: I don't honestly remember. I think it was somewhere around the end of Battle for Barthis, because I remember reading through most of that in a sitting.
Joining Thread: Posted once during Shadows, and one other time during the vacation arc, but I read the thread daily after reading the comic.
Starting Disposition: I thought it was cute and kind of entertaining, and it made me smile. The orc rape storyline didn't bother me at first - even now, doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother a lot of people - because the situation could have been fascinating, if Mookie had handled it well. (Which, you know, he can't. So.)
Time to Convert: I think it was around the beginning of Snowsong, though I still hoped that Mookie might improve.
Current Stance: I've about given up on DD, but the thread is interesting enough to keep me reading.

Name: Aidan305
Started Reading: Battle for Barthis
Joining GiTP Thread: Same Time
Starting Disposition: Contentment
Time to Convert: First sighting of Aardvark, though hope was retained until Zombie Dex
Current Stance: Were it not for this thread I would have given up on DD long ago.

Name: Artevoi
Started Reading: About the end of the dreaded "Snowsong" arc. (During the big exposition week).
Joining GitP thread: Started reading thread after I heard about it at TV Tropes. Just now started posting. (I think the comic was just before "World Tour" by then)
Starting Disposition: Meh.
Time to convert: I gave the comic a pass during my Archive Binge, Snowsong (I assumed Terracciano was trying to be funny), and Shadows (Bad breakup, I assumed) but drew the line during the Oracle Hunter arc (especially when the Dominus was "redeeming" the unrepentant murderer, just because she told a sob story that made no sense).
Current Stance: I read only for the snark at this point.

Name: averagejoe
Started Reading: I read from the first page. I think at the time the comic was at "Wrapped up and Returned." I dunno, I don't feel like checking. The most current comics were the ones where Szark (who is gay) was being accused of trying to turn his students gay.
Joining GitP thread: Lurked for awhile, but I was dissapointed to find actual fans and thought it would be kind of a jerk move if I just went in and was like, "This comic sucks, guys."
Starting Disposition: Curious, and somewhat fascinated. There was a lot I didn't like about it, but it was charming in its way, and somewhat exciting. (The Knight Vision strip still makes me laugh.)
Time to convert: It was more of a slow process, really. For example, I was bothered by the whole, "It's wrong to kill all people because then you might kill some people who are worth saving," philosophy present in the Storm of Souls, but this wasn't enough to push me over the edge, it just added to the pile, to mix metaphors. At the orc rape storyline, though, I knew I had to snark the strip. I knew there were probably people who thought this made a good or interesting story, and I knew it was my job, nay, my sacred duty to set them straight.
Current Stance: Still fascinated but getting increasingly irritated and bored with the comic.

Name: busterswd
Started reading: "Taggerty is an ******* part 1" storyline
Joined GitP thread: After Siegfried died
Starting disposition: Daily updates on a fantasy story with magic? Not a bad way to waste a minute or so.
Time to convert (if applicable): ...did he just justify raping a little girl...?
Current stance: "Let's see if there's any new strip slays... what are they talking about? Oh right, I didn't check for a new comic on the actual site yet."

Name: Clockwork Seal
Started reading: I can't give you a day at the moment. I started reading it when someone in my IRC channel shouted CURSE YOU RUNCIBLE SPOOOOOON! and linked it, which would give a rough estimate if I remembered when he showed up (IE it was a little bit past that point).
Joined GitP thread: During 'Shadows,' got linked to this thread (well, the then 200-something page mk2 thread) while *****ing about the comic in the very same IRC. Read thread. Registered Account. Joined in.
Starting disposition: I enjoyed it, mostly because of the puns and because it actually kept updating regularly. And it managed to not offend my sensibilities at every turn (often, but not EVERY turn).
Time to convert (if applicable): I was peeved when the comic kept going after SoS. Battle for Barthis was incredibly stupid, but not bad enough. Orc Rape was awful, but not enough. The War in Hell was a terrible arc with no redeeming qualities (It is actually the worst pre-supergreg full arc). Urban Eddie was a lot worse than Orc Rape (And a lot worse than Supergreg, too, but I'm not there yet), but Bumper actually managed to be the comic's first character during Two Thief so it was forgiven. Even Supergreg wasn't intolerable (though it was, of course, incredibly stupid.) Ultimately, it was this exact moment that I started to hate the comic a far as its ability to provide entertainment on its own merit. Terracciano had the best ending for an arc that he ever had two pages prior, and then used this awful setup to spend two weeks telling the reader what they already knew (because said ending actually revealed that Dommykins had said hand in everything), and only making the resolution look worse in the process.
Current stance: The comic is a waste of bandwidth, which is unfortunate, but the community that has sprung up around mocking it is wonderful.

Name: Colonelslime
Started Reading: Into the Woods (the one with the Dryad and Dirk the Mighty)
Joining GitP thread: When the Aardvark showed up, because I was so mad at Mookie's stupidity
Starting Disposition: I actually like it early on, though there were a few minor issues that bugged me.
Time to convert: I started getting miffed after the Storm of Souls. The Battle for Barthis seemed too silly and out of place, hated the Orc Rape sub-plot, and found the War in Hell extremnely melodramatic for something that would end up having almost no effect on the story. I actually kinda liked Two-Thief, Stunt and Bumper being my favorite characters. I only really started hating the comic (and lurking here) during Snowsong, not because of the Aardvark (though that sealed the deal), but because we found out that snowsongs big pain was that she was boo-ed off open mike night in some medieval comedy club. Also the cake thing. And how for the entire arc I was saying to myself "Mookie can't be going with a Superman parody here", only to have all my hopes crushed. Snowsong was pretty much one big draught of Snark for me.
Current Stance: I watch with a morbid fascination, thinking everyday,"no Mookie, you cannot possibly be doing this, 10 year-olds come up with more cohesive and thought-out narratives." And then he does... and I am filled with the urge to either laugh at the stupidity, cry that this can even pass for writing, or yell at my screen at the sheer god-awfulsness. Mookie's work excites my emotions in a way good stories rarely do. So I guess that soemthing in DD's favour.

Name: Cthclain
Started Reading: Battle of Barthis
Joined Thread: Followed since a little past Snowsong only joined in towards the end of the last.
Starting Disposition: Found it interesting, at least as passing entertainment
Time to Convert: Faltered with the End of Snowsong, switched entirely with Shadows
Current Stance: A failing B-movie level webcomic, it's still great snarking material (especially with this community) and because of this is still entertaining. Theoretically still has a chance to recover most of its ground, though it's unlikely.

Name: Death Dragon
Started Reading: Beginning of this arc. Maybe three weeks ago? A month?
Joined Thread: As soon as I was done with the archives.
Starting Disposition: Thought that it was pretty good, funny at best and not a waste of time at worst.
Time to Convert: Still a fan. YES, I come to the thread anyway. I can be a snarker and a fan!
Current Stance: Was a lot better before Aardvark showed up again, but I still like it, and would read it with or without the snarking.

Name: Deus_e_Machina
Started Reading: About three or four years ago? I don't recall exactly when, but I archive binged on my first go anyway.
Joining GitP thread: Started lurking in the Epic Thread. I don't quite remember where; somewhere in the early 100's. I went through the slowest archive binge ever to stay on the current comic as I read through all 100 pages. By the end, I was long since converted.
Starting Disposition: Somewhere between amicable and obsessive. Wait, towards the comic? I liked it - protagonist who uses cleverness and manipulation to do the hero schtick, without ever crossing the line on the manipulation to seem like an evil bastard instead of a chessmaster (at the time, mind).
Time to convert: Not far into reading the Epic Thread.
Current Stance: I love the snark community - the strip slays and this thread make reading the comic tons of fun.

Name: Domochevsky
Started Reading: Years ago
Joining GiTP Thread: After weeks of lurking and thinking that id never reach the end of the most current thread. Damn, you move fast.
Starting Disposition: When Teh Drama entered.
Time to Convert: I remember the exact strip when i stopped to read DD. It was when the planes of... Maltak was it, were done with the storms and everyone rushed in to find nearly everything was dead. Then blame started to get passed around again.
Current Stance: Neutral. Humor is what drew me to DD in the first place. Now humor is it again what draws me to it. Weird how these things work out sometimes. :smallamused:

Name: DoubleBlackbird
Started Reading: The one where Pam says she has to fire Garrit. But I actually starting reading the Strip Slays before reading Dominic Deegan proper, so I had known about the main characters for some time (I was actually surprised, once I convinced myself to read DD, to get to the Siegfried's Dead part of the story and find that his final speech was not 'Tell everyone my last word was... *lastword*').
Joining GiTP Thread: The one where Spark inexplicably hires a guide (but we do not know who it is). I guessed Stunt, but the correct answer was Hansi, putting me at 0% correct predictions (a figure comparable to Dominic's in recent weeks). Unfortunately the shame was so intense that I ran far away, never to be seen again. So you could say I only just joined the thread. hi every1, im new, wat is a 'supergerg'
Starting Disposition: Not applicable. I already knew it was going to be awful. I just didn't realise how awful.
Time to Convert: From 'non-reader' to 'snarker'? About as long as it took me to type in the URL.
Current Stance: It is a bad webcomic, but it is the best bad webcomic, and even though the current arc is ultra-boring, I can't and won't stop reading. Mookie's got himself a reader for life here.

Name: Elhana
Started Reading: I can't remember, but I've been reading it a couple of years at least. I'm pretty sure I started reading before Storm of Souls. I'd guess...somewhere around Ecstasy & Evil.
Joined GitP thread: Oh that's easy. I posted my first post in this thread...not that long ago. I lurked for like...a year. Maybe more. I just checked...I joined a year ago. Man, I am a profession lurker. Ok, I probably lurked for two years then. *cough* I only really started posting...um...a couple of weeks ago.
Starting Disposition: Well, when I first started reading I thought it was pretty good.
Time to convert: Probably a couple of years. Once I started reading this thread I think. The Aardvark was when I really started questioning why I read this comic...every day.
Current Stance: Sometimes I can't even stand to look at the comic. I dread looking at it knowing that I will read the comic and go "WHY! Mookie! WHY!" And yet I do it anyway. I think there is something wrong with me.

Name: EvilDMMk3
Started Reading: Late Oracle Hunter
Joining GiTP Thread: A while back, got really annoyed and gave up snarking during the "holiday of tedium" arc.
Starting Disposition: :smallyuk:
Time to Convert: 0.00002 seconds
Current Stance: :bigyuk:

Name: Face of Evil
Started Reading: Oracle Hunter arc
Starting Disposition: I'm an unusual case, because what actually got me into Dominic Deegan was reading the Strip Slays thread. I didn't understand the context, but I found a lot of the Slays were hilarious on their own. As such, I had some shockers like Siegfried's Dead and Melna Rape already spoiled for me when I finally started reading the comic. (I also thought Melna was a vampire and Dominic was secretly evil.) I felt that the comic in its early days was good, but I find the turning point is the introduction of Mama Deegan, whose amazing Deus ex Machina powers would rob the comic of a lot of its tension.
Current Stance: I'm mildly interested in seeing where DD is going, but mostly I'm just in it for the snarks.

Name: Falco
Started reading: Sometime before the Deegan Parents appeared.
Joined GitP thread: Right now. I figured I've been lurking long enough.
Starting disposition: A fan.
Time to convert (if applicable): Sometime during Storm of Souls after too many "Is he dead? Nope, I missed/it was an illusion!" moments. Got bored, then came back to it awhile ago thinking maybe it got better. How wrong I was...
Current stance: Morbid curiosity, and this thread is funnier than the comic *ever* was.

Name: Friv
Started Reading: Mob Mentality, I think
Joining GiTP Thread: Really not sure. Class Action-ish?
Starting Disposition: Thought it was a lot of fun
Time to Convert: Two Thief or Not To Thief (yeah, my optimism survived the War in Hell)
Current Stance: It's so beautifully awful.

Name: Frogwarrior
Started Reading: A long time ago... best I can figure is the "Evil and Ecstasy" arc or thereabouts... dang it's been a while
Starting Disposition: Favorable. It had some obvious flaws from the start, and I would not have let anyone else see that I read it, but I was able to wave them aside as forgiveable errors.
Said errors compounded and multiplied, and my appreciation waned, as Dominic and crew turned from barely powerful (ooh, I can find your keys!) to godlike (I can rape you WITH MY MIND! And my brother is Superman! And my dad is a powerful swordsman who negotiated some important orc thing, and my mom is an archmage!). Yet even that wasn't enough to get me to admit that it sucked.
Time to Convert: Happened at about the Snowsong or Shadow of Siegfried arc. By then, I had kinda lost excitement about DD, even to the point of forgetting to check it often (this was before I gave in and put my favorite comics in bookmarks). But at about that time, I read John Solomon's absolutely brutal saving of Mookie's work. It broke down the inappropriate walls in my brain, punching my esteem for DD in the balls, guiding me to the truth: DD sucks.
Current stance: Even some of the arcs that sucked were fun to read. That was long in the past. There is nothing about it that I enjoy other than mocking it and making slays. And yet... I can't stop reading... not just because it's fun to mock, but because I actually want to see what happens in the story. I hate myself.

Name: Snoogums, you stooge. (Ganurath)
Started Reading: Snowsong's stomach rumbling.
Joining Thread: Some point in the epic-ness of the first thread.
Starting Disposition: Some points of moral inconsistency, and... What the fork have you done to my orcs, Mookie?!
Time to Convert: Nevrmore was my first exposure to other people's opinions. Parts of me die inside when he talks for a different reason now, but he really killed it for me.
Current Stance: Word of God says he'll be ending it soon. Let there be much rejoicing.

Name: I'm Batman. (Gez)
Started Reading: I think it was during the Battles for Barthis arc.
Joining Thread: Page 40 of the first thread.
Starting Disposition: At first it was "okay, a very D&Dish webcomic, let see what ideas I can mine from it." I liked Acibek's Principle, or at least the idea of having wizards giving their names to principles of magic rather than just to a few spells, à la "Mordenkainen's Magnificient Mansion".
... I think that was the only idea I thought was worthy of being taken, though.
Time to Convert: It was a gradual process. I never thought it was a great comic, but I saw potential in it. For a long time I cut Mookie some slack: "okay, this is bad but it can be justified this way". Eventually, though, I had the Revelation: what Mookie was really trying to do was an Encyclopedia of Failure in webcomic form. This gave me a new appreciation for the comic and the amount of thought and work put behind. Mookie will explore, with an admirable and painstaking meticulous devotion, each and every way to sabotage his webcomic. At least, the non-meta ones: he hasn't pulled crap such as surprise hiatus, access restricted to only paying readers, and other such silliness.
Current Stance: Eager to see how long Mookie can manage to sink his webcomic ever further without making it really awful (like some other comics I don't even want to talk about).

Name: Hell Puppi
Started Reading: Around the start of the second GiTP thread, I decided to slog though DD to see what it was all about
Joining GiTP Thread: Somewhere near the middle of the second thread after I had finished my archive trawl
Starting Disposition: Interested
Time to Convert: When I got to the part where Siggy was beating on Dom and NO ONE HELPED. No, not even the healer/cleric girl. I noticed from that point on that pretty much everyone was a jerk.
Current Stance: I haven't read DD in months and there would be no force on earth that could make me...aside from my desire to snark. And my hope that at some point Dom gets eaten.

Name: High-chancellor (One of many!)
Started Reading: Round abouts Erossus I think, actually. shortly before or after.
Joining GitP thread: First thread baby, yeeeeeaaaah. *random other punk elitist stupid stuff*
Starting Disposition: First started... I was mostly bored, and was amused before... well... it seems to me the stupidity of DD is like one of those poisons that builds up over time, in the beginning. Both in the way that it's gradual so I didn't notice it till it was bothering me, and in the way that low levels accumulated to drive me insane. I always had a sort of love-hate relationship. (Well, after it started trying to take itself seriously with this "plot" nonsense. I'm looking at YOU "chosen of balance". I think I'd seen that coming from so far away it hit me in the back of the head and gave me a savage headache.)
Time to convert: Truly converted... combination of Szarks flanderization as a flamboyant gay who was in love with dommie-chan, YES the orc rapesez, aaaand... Mookie. Srsly.
Current Stance: Really, I find the comic to be the literary form of a train wreck involving one freight train full of rubber chickens and perhaps a secret military unmanned spyplane. One really feels like he should stop watching it, but he just can't! It's at the same time monstrous, bizarre, and strangely entertaining in a horrific way.

Name: Humbug
Started Reading: 2 years ago, when the Neilen arc started.
Joining GiTP Thread:Some time later, it was because the Comicgenesis snark thread got closed and I eventually stumbled onto this one.
Starting Disposition:I thought the earlier parts of DD were okay, I was indifferent to the Orc Rape arc at first, but the comic really started getting bad for me after the Thief to Thief arc.
Time to Convert:From the beginning when the Comicgenesis thread was started, that's what got me reading DD in the first place.
Current Stance: Mookie obviously breaks all the writing rules, but the greatest offender to me is how he handles his artwork, awful anatomy, boring composition, hardly improving after 5 years, etc.

Name: h_v
Started Reading: About halfway through 'Two Thief or not Two Thief' after mention on Websnark.
Joined GitP thread: About halfway through the 'Class Action' storyline, I think. It was a while ago, so I'm not too clear on the details.
Starting Disposition: Thought it was a little unsubtle, but overall positive.
Time to convert: Opinion started to turn two thirds of the way through 'Class Action', 'Snowsong' put the nail in the coffin.
Current stance: Ironically, I'm reading it far more regularly for snarkage than I ever did when I semi-liked it. I don't post as often as I should, but I always keep up to date on the thread.

Name: Ichini Sanshigo
Started Reading: Started during the Vacation Arc, but i went back through the archives before I started on the current strips. I was releuctant to start because it looked tacky compared to other webcomics, like crap I doodled in my notebook during Trig class.
Joined GitP Thread: I actually found out about the comic through TV Tropes. I think it was in the "So Bad it's Horrible" webcomic section. For some reason I love bad media ("Earth: Final Conflict" comes to mind), so I bookmarked the comic and said I'd get around to it. After slogging through Mookie's awfulness, I decided to look for a place to snark. I noticed that TV Tropes has a lot of references to GitP comics, so I checked out the forum here and lo and behold, the Dominic Deegan thread was a shiny beacon unto snark.
Starting Disposition: From the get-go I realized that this comic was at best mediocre. To me at least, it was never very funny. Everything about it was weak: weak jokes, weak dialogue, weak characterization, weak setting, lame plot... but I figured it might improve. I was wrong.
To be absolutely honest, I agree with many of the criticisms of that dude from Your Webcomic is Bad and You Should Feel Bad. He's kind of a jerk, and his reviews are often marred by needless ad hominems and a tendency to take some scenes out of context, but he was right on the mark with Dominic Deegan.
Time to Convert: Like, when I first started reading.
Current Stance: The only reason I read the comic is for this thread.

Name: InkEyes
Started Reading: I started reading during the Shadow of Siegfried arc, thanks to this site.
Joining GitP thread: I was browsing this site one day and I noticed the epic thread here and I had to find out what could create such a thread. I lurked for a few pages before doing a short archive binge and jumping in the epic thread around halfway through it.
Starting Disposition: The comic as a whole isn't really my cup of tea. The psuedo-anime art and the rather forced humor overrode the story-driven aspects of the comic that I would normally be drawn to.
Time to convert: Right off the bat I didn't think the comic was great, but this thread has helped me realize that there is just so much more to it. I don't hate the comic, in fact I'd probably be completely indifferent towards it if I hadn't found this place, and I've always felt the mockery was all in good fun.
Current Stance: My opinion is that, overall, the comic isn't immensely terrible, but I don't think there's much more that can be done to 'fix' the comic short of starting a new one taking into account the lessons learned from this one. When Mookie pulls out comics that really bother me, then it can get my bile going, but most of the time I think he's just an okay guy who's really bad at articulating his point in any sort of graphic or written medium. It's a shame given the following he was able to create with his minimal skills, I think the comic had the potential to be good if Mookie had tried different things more often and taken time to improve himself.

Name: Jahkaivah
Started Reading: Think it was when Milov was in the Werewolf place thingy.
Joining GiTP Thread: I started reading this thread during Oracle Hunter Arc, I made my first post during the Vacation Arc.
Starting Disposition: I liked the old grumpy kickass Dominic and how his only strength was second sight, also enjoyed that it was very humble in its scope.... yeah
Time to Convert: Dominic's trademark character writing bothered me right from the begining but I lost all interest in the plot during Storm of Souls when random characters were suddenly being told they were a chosen one and stupid villains was sprouting out of every orifice. I read the whole comic ignoring the stupidities, including that one, simply put as soon as I read this thread and realised how much fun snarking Dominic Deegan was I swtiched.
Current Stance: Bloody awful writing, poorly done art, and thats why I love it.
PS: I just noticed that I refered to Mookie as Dominic, I think that is so perfect I am not going to change it

Name: Jayngfet
Started Reading: About a year ago
Joining GitP thread: Two days later
Starting Disposition: I wondered what J Soloman was complaining about, loved it for a bit.
Time to convert: A week and a half.
Current Stance: I like some of the stranger ideas(medieval rock concert? Awesome), and some of the overlooked bits mookie go right, but I stay to work on dominoligy and point out details missed by everyone else.

Name: Jerthanis
Started Reading: Middle of Battle for Barthis
Joining GitP thread: I actually started a Dominic Deegan thread sometime around the middle of War in Hell, it went about 16 posts and died out. It was mildly praiseful towards the comic. I've been around these threads since before they became snark threads.
Starting Disposition: I liked it a lot at first. Clever writing made a nonstandard hero archetype really successful I thought, and while nothing after Storm of Souls really quite clicked as anything before, I maintained hope.
Time to convert: .035 seconds after seeing this That was when I knew for sure it was never going to be good again.
Current Stance: The comic is infested, infected with suck. Right now it's circling the drain, winding down towards oblivion, collapsing in upon itself. The only thing left to do is watch in pity as it gasps its last. Meanwhile we get to commiserate and share a laugh, like we're attending a loved one's funeral and we're telling embarrassing stories about them.

Name: Johnny Blade
Started Reading: I found the comic through the epic thread, when The Shadow Of Siegfried was about to end, and, since the thread had more than 100 pages at this time, went on an archive binge to see what it was all about.
Joining Thread: During Endings And Annoyances, after I posted my first strip slay. I lurked for some time before, however.
Starting Disposition: There were some things I disliked, but Spark, as well as Stunt and Bumper, made up for it. And The Curse was actually great.
Time to Convert: When Luna appeared, I realized that, from then on, Dominic Deegan wouldn't be a comic I could ever like. After that, it got gradually worse, but it wasn't until Storm of Souls started that I found the comic actually bad.
Current Stance: I love the comic's hilarious badness, as well as this thread and our mini-community here. Granted, the comic is boring sometimes, but Domiology carries me through those periods.

Name: Joro
Started Reading: Around the end of the Vacation Arc, I believe.
Joining GiTP Thread: Now! (February '09)
Starting Disposition: I was vaguely aware of the existence of Dominic Deegan through webcomic cultural osmosis, but I never actually knew any specifics until I read the Your Webcomic is Bad writeup. This prejudiced me unfairly against it at the start. Next, I discovered the strip-slay thread here, which was awesome enough to make me abandon my blind dislike in favor of a healthier, snarky appreciation. I read the entire archive just to properly enjoy all the happy-fun snarking.
Current Stance: I mentally maintain a long list of things not to do unthinkingly in my own writing, and Dominic Deegan is endlessly helpful.

Name: Kasrkin
Started Reading: Late Snowsong Period (i.e. The Aardvark apocalypse)
Joined Thread: Pretty Recently. Vacation Arc, I think.
Starting Disposition: !?!
Time to Convert: Almost immediately.
Current Stance: The aberrancy of FATAL combined with the ineptness and general lameness of Ishtar. Fun to riff, though.

Name: Khosan
Started Reading: Way, way back. I think some time around Visions of Doom when they arrived in Barthis.
Joining GitP thread: I think I was here as early as the first thread, but I didn't start posting until the second.
Starting Disposition: I was...13 or 14 at the time. I thought it was pretty good, considering I really didn't have much concept of what was good writing/art.
Time to convert: Second thread or Supergreg. Whichever came first. It was a pretty slow and gradual decent that started around Storm of Souls. The "Tension! YOINK! Nope!" (Luna cringing away from her death in panel 8 one day, eyes open looking confused panel one the next day) deal bothered me. I suppose that's when I caught on to the characters being Mary Sues and being surrounded by ultra-plot armor. Supergreg was the real killer though. Up until then, it had been my line of thinking that the quality wasn't quite how I remembered it and maybe the comic was just in a slump after the Epic Hijinx™. Then I saw Supergreg and his Superbulge and any hopes went out the window.
Current Stance: Tenuous. The comic manages to hit such depths of bad now that not even snarking can make me look forward to reading it. The vacation arc and the mindbreak arc in particular broke my spirit.

Name: KillerSquid
Started Reading: Vacation Arc. I didn't like it, but found the thread and loved snarking.
Joining thread: The second thread, near the end, too many pages to remember.
Starting Disposition: Disliked the later comics, but reread quite a bit of the earlier ones, and found a charm, if lacking in artwork.
Time to convert: Started as a snarker.
Current Stance: Pessimistic of Mookie's writing future, optimistic for snarking.

Name: Kizor
Started Reading: Way back during the early Shadows of Doom. I've been around long enough to write some of the tropes that are often mentioned here. I can also shoot a laser from my mouth and bend girders.
Joining GitP thread: During the Vacation Arc.
Starting Disposition: I loved the comic! The idea of a mage protagonist without the fireballs was one of those great, fresh inventions that are only obvious in retrospect. Dominic Deegan was a seriously underpowered character who got by with creativity and good thinking, not the ability to rend threats out of reality with mageeeek. His foresight was a vague aid to a more important tool, his intellect. I didn't think of this at the time, but a cynical misanthrope forced to be a puppet-master fit like a glove where a straightforward hero would've been (and now is) repulsive. The plot was interesting. The puns were truly atrocious. I was a forum member. I filked. I'm not a native English-speaker, so the results were unspeakable.
...Brett's now inside-out - goin' to Elemecca...
Time to convert: I'm easy to please with entertainment. The Storm of Souls was neat, though the comic could've explained what it actually does. Medieval rock concert? Sure, it's silly fun and characters I like are really enjoying themselves. Orc rape? A honest attempt to tackle difficult themes that didn't work out. All doubts I had and more were abruptly confirmed on the day of the Aardvark.
Current Stance: I don't hate the comic or its author. That's silly. I simply wouldn't be able to enjoy it anymore. Because of that, I find the Strip Slays - and to a lesser extent, this thread - to be genuinely funny, not lol-funny as is too common on the Internet or even, Heaven help us, lulz-funny. I like hanging out here. From time to time the discussion gets too hostile or mean towards Mookie, and I wonder if the strip is genuinely bad after all, but then we receive a He-Dom or a Dulk or wondrously resurrecting/legless Dex, and I abandon those thoughts in good conscience.

Name: kukn
Started Reading: At the first coming of the dread Aardvark. I actually started reading because I wanted to see what was so funny about the Strip Slays.
Joining GitP thread: Sometime during the epic thread (Mk. II), towards the start of it. I wanted to see what other people thought about DD, I was quite eager myself at that time I admit. Don't post much, only flit through the comments, as I don't have much time.
Starting Disposition: Well... I read through the whole archive in three days. I really enjoyed it the whole way through, I liked the original and non-cliché characters (a weak, grumpy, smoking seer; a wise-cracking cat; a disabled youngster capable only of healing others; a kick-ass evil necromancer brother; and the rest of the cast tbh, including Dom's parents, Siegfried, Luna, Stunt and Bumper, Szark)
Time to convert: After catching up with the Snowsong arc (then nearing the end), I still liked the strip. I continued to generally enjoy for its own merits, though starting to see its flaws, until around the start of Shadow of Siegfried, about here. From then on it's been downhill.
Current Stance: Somewhat sickened, in a bored and 'meh' kind of way. I personally haven't considered a single strip to be good since the plot and character depravity of Shadow started. Not single one (maybe a few have been just about okay, but that's it).

Name: Kyeudo
Started Reading: Shadow of Sigfried
Joined Thread: Two Thief or not Two Thief
Starting Disposition: Not impressed, but tolerable.
Time to Convert: Shortly after joining this thread.
Current Stance: Mookie could make this comic a masterpiece dispite his bad art, but he won't. There are so many wonderful possibilities in his characters, even the Aardvaark, that could be used, but he just doesn't seem to care enough anymore.

[Domochevsky]

L-P
Name: Lenlalron.
Started Reading: Summer of 07. I think that was Snowsong. I'm pretty sure I heard about DD from this thread, but never really read the snark until now.
Joining Thread: I totally forget. Sometime in the first thread, though.
Starting Disposition: It's decent. The daily update makes it a daily checker for me, which is great since most of my comics are MWF or alternate days of that sort.
Time to Convert: Pretty sure when I finally read snowsong. (it took me awhile to archive binge!).
Current Stance: What hilarious mishaps in webcomicery do you have for us next, Mookie?

Name: Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins
Started Reading: Uh, wow. Damned if I know. Probably somewhere in the War in Hell. I always read archives obsessively before I read the newer stuff.
Joining Thread: Late first thread. I'd lurked a bit before that. I also made particualrily embarrassing comments in the later threads (turns out I'm someone who would say "Abrakaboom").
Starting Disposition: I liked it.
Time to Convert: Shortly after joining this(ese) thread(s). It was a long time ago.
Current Stance: I'm hear for the snark, dudes.

Name: Just look to the left of my message to figure it out! Er, my name isn't "Just look to the left of my message to figure it out!" I mean you should look to the left of my message to figure it out.(Lord Seth)
Started Reading: During Shadow of Sigfried. I'm pretty sure that I started reading when this was the newest strip. I went through the archives really fast.
Joining GitP thread: Hrm, I read it a bit during Shadow of Sigfried, but I think I don't think I really posted until Oracle Hunter.
Starting Disposition: Thought the comic was pretty good. As dumb as it was, I still thought Supergreg was sort of funny, and while the orc rape was ineptly written, Mookie at least seemed to recognize that people hated it and quietly ended it. I really did like the strip, and was puzzled as to why so many people seemed to hate it...
Time to convert: I was wavering during Oracle Hunter; there were some good spots, but they were always followed by bad spots. I think I "converted" soon after He-Dom.
Current Stance: Deegan used to be a good comic, and we still on occasion get peeks of its former glory. But it's fallen horribly. Rather than trying to fix the problems the comic had (overuse of bolding, cheek teeth, etc.) Mookie now seems determined to top himself in badness in every arc. I'd say it's been declining ever since Storm of Souls ended. The only thing Mookie can do at this point to salvage it is to transplant his mind to when the comic was good, then bring up the lingering plot points (Jacob, for example) and use them all in an epic, climactic final arc. Then take a break, get his writing skills back to what they used to be (I'd say get them better than that, but one step at a time) and get his drawing better so we don't have the cheek teeth. If he wants to keep going with the Deeganverse, maybe he can make a new main character and relegate Deegan to Obi-Wan status.

Name: Lowkey Lyesmith
Started Reading: somewhere around the Visions of doom arc. But I always read comics from the beginning so not quite sure. But somewhere around there.
Joining Thread: During Oracle hunter, a friend( Doompuppi) told me about it.
Starting Disposition: Liked it. It was a funny story with some good drama.
Time to Convert: I found it irritating how big guys were always stupid and violent jocks. I'm big, I do like some sports, but I don't beat people up and I try to solve problems with my brain.
The time of convertion is hard to place. But the first time I got angry was this http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2005-03-01
Reason? Why must he be the champion of balance? The strip before had Klo tark saying that he was'nt the champion of law. I was happy then, wondering, who could it be?
After that, I disliked Dominic and around Snowsong, I got enough.
Current Stance: Hmm, I find myself hoping at times. But to be honest, the snarking is better then the comic ever was.

Name: Magnax
Started Reading: Partway through Storm of Souls.
Joining GitP thread: Around this time last year, though I lurk a lot more than I post.
Starting Disposition: This used to be one of my favorite webcomics.
Time to convert: Around War in Hell the comic started going downhill for me. Then I read John Solomon's blog, and while my initial reaction to it was unfavorable, I realized he had a few good points. The Snowsong arc finally clued me in to how bad the comic really was.
Current Stance: I read it to see if Mookie can somehow recover this train-wreck of a comic, but usually I'm just amused at the new ways he finds to screw up and offend people.

Name: Mauve Shirt
Started Reading: War in Hell
Joined the thread: In the middle of the epic thread, during the Oracle Hunter arc.
Starting Disposition: I really loved the comic up through the War in Hell, and I had no problem with the following arcs until I started reading this thread and realized you all were right.
Current Stance: I keep up with it for the purposes of following this thread. I have no problem with the arcs up until the end of War in Hell.

Name: MeklorIlavator
Started Reading: Around the start of the First Thread? I don't really remember, and it could have been a bit later, maybe in the next January or February. In any case I read it over the course of 3 days(one reason that I thought it was really good as long as I did, as you miss alot when reading it that fast).
Joined Thread: First post was in the Original thread, during a discussion about how the words species/races applies to fantasy worlds, though I had been a lurker for some time in that thread.
Starting Disposition:
Time to Convert: I forget. I know that I was originally a fan and supported some of the Defences put forward in that thread, but I know that at the very latest I had changed my mind in the early parts of the Legendary thread.
Current Stance: (For very different reasons. Mainly, MST3K value)

Name: Mewtarthio
Started Reading: Archived binged up through "War in Hell," which was the limit of the archives at the time. I did not continue to follow the comic, however, until reading the giantitp Strip Slays thread, at which point I archive binged again and got up to around the end of the Nielen arc.
Joined GitP thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...32#post2274832
Note that this is several days after I posted my first Strip Slay. I only joined the main thread because I was already reading the comic and wanted to... "discuss" it.
Starting Disposition: My first post says it all, really. I thought everything before Storm of Souls was decent. Storm of Souls itself made Dominic a bit Mary Sueish (I didn't know the term "Mary Sue" at the time, but I immediately thought of that arc once I learned it), particularly given that magical blasty powers seem a bit incongruous on a seer.
Time to convert: I did not deem the comic worthy of a single minute of my attention each day after the archive binge. The thread actually had to convert me from the other direction: In fact, I nearly quit the thread entirely following the Snowsong debacle. Morbid curiosity drew me back to the comic, and then the snarking began in earnest on the main thread.
Current Stance: Dominic Deegan died long ago. At this point, Mookie is simply churning out comics because he feels like he has to.

Name: M0rt
Started reading: Around the end of Snowsong arc.
Joining thread: Shortly after starting to read the comic, after finishing Battle of Barthis arc.
Starting disposition: First, I thought it was mildly amusing. Then, I deemed it mediocere. After Snowsong, the slippery slope to the snarking was short.
Time to convert: See above. When I started reading, the comic was already in its mind-numbingly bad status.
Current stance: Morbid curiosity that can be compared to pushing the red buttons with warnings over them or reading Necronomicon to see if there are pictures inside.

Name: MReav
Started Reading: Forget when... before the Battle of Barthis I think.
Joining GitP thread: Shortly after Oracle Hunter, but more because I started perusing the GitP boards more.
Starting Disposition: Interested because of the constant updates and overall cuteness of the series.
Time to convert: Your Webcomic is Bad and You Should Feel Bad planted a few seeds of doubt, but the SuperGreg plotline definitely threw this into guilty pleasure, mostly because I tried to not to think about the rape storyline.
Current Stance: I enjoy the Strip Slays more than the actual strip, but I still have respect for Mookie because he makes a comic consistently. That doesn't make him immune to criticism, his world building is atrocious, some of the swerves make me want to head bash a wall, the stereotypes that permeate are outright offensive at times, but it's got a small amount of charm that doesn't make me drop it.

Name: Mr. Scaly
Started reading: Midway through the vacation arc, though I began with an archive binge.
Joined GitP thread: Late into the Vacation arc, mostly through random forum surfing for interesting topic. Saw the massive amount of posts and took a look see.
Starting Disposition: Interested. Had seen a lot of references to DD in TVtropes and was looking for a new webcomic to read so I thought I'd take a look. Was pleasantly surprised at how the early humour kept making me laugh and the interesting plot lines, and enjoyed the continuing story arcs.
Time to convert: Haven't yet (and probably won't) but first started getting ill during the "Snowsong arc." I liked most of it but The Abomination's first appearance and undeniable proof that Dominic is a manipulative bastard, if not an anti-hero.
Current stance: Have honestly enjoyed most of the most recent arcs (though Dominic in a loincloth is scary as Hell...) The orc rape didn't phase me, the vacation arc was interesting and I'm willing to give Mookie the benefit of the doubt on most of his goofs. It's in this most recent 'death to all' arc that's making me bitter and resentful...turning Celesto into a jerkass, TIM into a pansy, Gregory into a comic book superhero with no personality and Dex and Rachael into mindless drones.

Name: Mr. Silver
Started Reading:First began my archive Binge towards the end of Two Thieves. Predates my joining this forum by a fair while.
Joining GiTP Thread:Misery loves company?:smallwink:
I'd kind of given up on DD before I stumbled upon this forum and the thread. The mentioning of Snowsong in it re-awakened my curiosity and I went back to the archives. As a result, I felt an overpowering urge to take the piss as a form of cathartic recovery for the 'saving' of my senses the re-exposure had inflicted. So I signed-up. Rest, as they say, is history.
Starting Disposition: Ooo, big archive. Seems interesting anyway, if the artwork is a bit poor I'll give it a go.
Time to Convert:Don't think conversion is quite the right word on account of the whole finding there before here. I guess my first misgivings started with the death of Amelia way back in Ecstacy and Evil and started to grow from then on. Finally went past the point of no return into outright hatred with The War in Hell for the huge character derailment, the rape etc.
Current Stance: Drift back in and out depending on how busy/bored I am and/or my tolerance levels for mindbreakingly bad comicry (is that a word? It should be). My actual relations to this thread are somewhat linked towards my interests in the rest of the GITP forums (sometimes inversely, for some reason).

Name: Myrdhale
Started Reading: End of the Soul of Storms arc, But I went through the archives first.
Joining GiTP Thread: Lurked During the war in hell, actively joined at the unholy sight of the Aardvark. I have yet to forgive Mookie for the Terror seeing it caused.
Starting Disposition:I genuinely enjoyed DD during the first few arcs. I was a little put off by the erossus arc; the overly sexual jokes, in really childish ways, struck me really as a very immature attempt to make a comic 'more adult'. But I went with it, and had a great time right up until the Battle for Barthis.
Time to Convert: Started having my doubts right after the Storm of souls, but only truly began doubting at the Snowsong arc. From there on in, its just kept getting worse.
Current Stance: Morbid Fascination. I have some aspirations of writing a webcomic and novel, so I also take Mookie as a cautionary tale. Not just his writing and story, but his disposition towards fans and critiques. I'm sure he's a very nice person, but as an Artist, he is everything I wish to avoid. So at least he serves some purpose.

Name: Neoriceisgood
Started reading: Somewhere around the Battle for Barthis
Joined GitP thread: Around last week I was reading Dominic Deegan, and suddenly the question popped up; "why am I reading this?"
Realising that I was only reading it because it was like a bad B movie, I suddenly realised that I had absolutely no excuse to read this comic unless I actually knew people I could bitch at about how hilariously contrived this comic is.
The next thing I did was googling "Dominic Deegan + Terrible" to see if I could find any place dedicated to active bitching, and one of the top results was the current active thread on giantitp.
As I was already registered I made it my new DD place for bi-snarking.
Time to convert (if applicable): Hard to say, I started reading Dominic Deegan based on one of my general rules by just looking at a few facts.
1. is it readable? - yes
2. does it update often enough to be worth bookmarking? - yes
3. is the last comic updated something I'd read? - yes
4. is the first comic posted "clean" enough to bother reading a few pages of it? - yes
5. [if the art is subpar] is the improvement from the first to the last page significant enough to expect the comic to move into the realm of comics with actual good art? - yes
I never really saw DD as a great or ingenious comic art/story and dialogue wise, but it passed a few of the basic rules that make reading a comic okay for me, I became a "snarker" during the holiday arc, as it triggered my inner conscious asking me why I was still reading it to begin with.
It's not that the comic wasn't bad before that moment, but it was more a calm collected realisation that the comic's "improvement" hardly went in the right direction, It just made me realise I honestly shouldn't expect it to ever get any better, and allowed me to realise that I'd have to settle with humouring myself by the notion of how bad it was.
Current stance: As said before, It's like watching some sort of bad B movie, I managed to salvage the fact that it wouldn't become good by fully embracing how terrible it'll always be, and in that will glorify each and every step the comic makes in it's negative spiral of being terrible.
Right now I'm completely indifferent about where the comic will go, if it improves I may regain some respect for it once more, though this path seems unlikely, if it stays bad I'll be actively laughing at it from the comfortable boundaries of this thread.

Name: Nerd-o-rama
Started Reading: Battle for Barthis, just before the concert
Joined Giantitp thread: around that time. I think the thread might have been how I found it, actually...
Starting Disposition: Enjoyed it, thought it was cute and clever during archive binge. Thought it lost something after the Storm of Souls climax, but figured it'd get it back. Neeewp.
Time to Convert: I think orc rape did it fully, so a couple months.
Current Stance: A genius of badness, but not something I read every day, even just to mock it.

Name: Ninja_penguin
Started reading: First Errosus arc, I think
Joined GitP thread: Difficult to pinpoint. I did a significant amount of lurking.
Starting Disposition: Was okay, I'm a bit of a webcomic junkie, and something that updated daily and wasn't lame pixel art worked for me
Time to convert (if applicable): When Klo Tark couldn't stay dead. or alive again, either, during the War in Hell arc. I really liked Klo Tark as a character the first time around, and thought that he had a good run. Bringing him back was iffy, but I was hoping that he was actually some sort of angelic version of an infernomancer, empowering the human form that we'd originally seen. He pointless re-death by Siggy, and the equally pointless death of Siggy directly afterwards tore it for me.
Current stance: I read to keep up with the strip slays. if not for that, it'd have dropped off my radar long ago. I still miss the updates randomly as it is.

Name: nooblade
Started Reading: ~Oracle Hunter
Joining GitP thread: Sometime around then. Actually read strip slays first, then went to comic, then these series of threads.
Starting Disposition: The first ones (up to the sixth comic?) were great. Just like the strip slays, short and witty. Then the plot started to creep in behind my nerves (actually, plot kicked down Dominic's door, and I kinda laughed, but looking back, all I have to say is that that was a miserable day). I also resented the way the upper castes got so much attention when they aren't even funny half the time, it'd be more funny if we saw random people in action too for some pun-age for no good reason. Before I knew it, I went through the whole archives, thinking only about strip slays and hoping to find some more of the funny stuff...
So I dunno what to call it. Expectant, you might say.
Time to convert: Instantaneous
Current Stance: Now I think I'm done. There's nothing more to talk about, no new brilliantly witty jokes to make, really. Making fun of the art would be beating a dead horse. Expounding on character development would be dull, since I've lost respect for any of them long ago. And the fifth caste is dying out. It's so sad.

Name: Oracle_Hunter
Started reading: The beginning of "Shadows" though I Archive Binged before reading the current comics
Joined GitP thread: Around the same time I joined the GitP forum I had been lurking briefly, and was unsure of a good handle when Winterwind popped a link to the then-unresolved "Oracle Hunter" Arc, which tickled my sense of irony. Oh, specifically in Thread II, Page 46.
Starting Disposition: I was fascinated by Mookie's guileless application of Tropes, and while I could see that the comic was weak in many places, it certainly seemed better than some of the other comics I've read.
Time to convert (if applicable): "Snowsong" was pretty dumb, but to be honest it wasn't until Jayden was derailed in "Shadows" that I was truly outraged by Mookie.
Current stance: I've become increasingly embittered since the Derailment of Jayden. I still have fun with the snarking, but since "The Neverending Arc" it hasn't been as pure a joy. Mookie is finally getting to me.

Name: PaladinFreak
Started reading: Around the beginning of the Oracle Hunter arc
Joined GitP thread: Almost as soon as I started reading. I mostly just lurk though.
Starting Disposition: I found it moderatly funny in the beginning, and liked Storm of Souls, but started WTFing around War in Hell.
Time to convert (if applicable): Very little.
Current stance: I read the strip to keep up with the thread. I lurk, lurk, lurk. Every so often I'll jump in.

Name: Simon/Darth Graphite (Paragraph)
Started Reading: Vacation arc was well underway , and I saw the latest page (something with Hobgoblins, I think) at a friend's at sunday. I remembered seeing a DD thread in the forums, so I told my friend that a lot of people seemed to hate DD; he said he loved it and I should check it out, so I did, reading the archives first and ending when Bort came to.
Joining Thread: About a month later, after being surprised how many flaws you reallly could find in the single strips. I thought most people here were kind of overreacting and thought it my duty to bring in fresh opinions and some of my legendary optimism.
Starting Disposition: I had liked most of the archive, and had not yet to experience day-by-day vacation, so apart from the art, I definitely enjoyed DD so far and loved the daily updates.
Time to Convert: Monday this week (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-11-17), when after Aardvark returned, just about nothing happend but a splash page which had been wasted...
And Dex' by now famous expression summed it all up: This is the end of optimism. It can't get any better, it will only get worse. I had waited and hoped so long for action after only experiencing the dying throes of dreadful vacation, then THIS sorry excuse for a battle came along and something died inside of me - to be replaced by someONE different.
Current Stance: I'm in a win-win situation. Either Darth Graphite will get a chance to work his snarky ways, or Simon will not have hoped in vain if a good comic comes about.
To indicate this, I will differentiate who wrote which post of mine by changing the signature at the end . Also, if Graphite wants to say something in Simon's posts, he will do so in Firebrick, Simon can post in Graphite's posts with Green.

Name: Penquin47
Started Reading: Thanks to a link from here. I really don't remember exactly where I came in, but it was less than a year ago while still before the Vacation From Hell.
Joined GitP thread: To see what the buzz was about. Don't post much but I read it.
Starting disposition: I love stupid puns! The alliteration sucks. And I like the silly lazy anime art.
Time to convert: Still haven't fully, although it's really getting hard not to. I can even somewhat defend the Orc Rape as just part of the ZOMG DRAMA!!!111!!one!!!1!! turn the strip took.
Current stance: I still read it, and I'm the one person who still somewhat likes Luna... although I miss old actually-getting-better Luna and her relatively healthy relationship with Dominic... dang, I think I just fully converted.
CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT DOES NOT EQUAL DARTBOARD PERSONALITIES! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Name: PhantomFox
Started Reading: Shortly after Snowsong
Joining GitP thread: Perused it for a while and make a comment here and there when appropriate
Starting Disposition: I liked it after doing an archive binge. This soon turned when the flaws were pointed out to me and I actually started thinking about it.
Time to convert: Once I started thinking about it critically
Current Stance: The strip is slowly devolving, giving me more wallbanger moments as they go on, and being horribly susceptible to fridge logic. The more you think about it, the less sense it makes. It's mostly like comic junk food.

Name: Phase
Started reading: Around this (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-05-10) strip.
Joined GitP thread: As soon as I found it.
Starting disposition: Thought it was a really great comic... when reading the archives. I didn't realize what daily reading was like until I had found other, better webcomics.
Time to convert (if applicable): About a page. Thoughts went from "Hey, these guys are ragging on a great comic! What are they doing!" to "Wait, a cheek-what now?"
Current stance: Crappy comic, great riffing.


R-Z
Name: Radar
Started Reading: About the end of vacation arc. Generally because of Strip Slays thread, to get all the jokes.
Joining GitP thread: When the TIM/Celesto/Greg random fight begun (as i recall). Lurked in the Strip Slays thread much longer (beginning of the second one i think).
Starting Disposition: Strip Slays fan.
Time to convert: Started here, so it is no concerne of mine.
Current Stance: I like the wild slays and reading bizzare theories in DD thread. What's more fun, these theories make more sens, then the DD itself. Somehow the entertainment from reading a bad comic remindes me of this.

Name: Rappy
Started Reading: The Battle of Barthis...I think. Archive binging fried my brain and sense of space-time.
Joining GiTP Thread: I lurked in and eventually joined Thread IV.
Starting Disposition: It's bad, but in a good way.
Time to Convert: About two days of lurking.
Current Stance: Call out Joel and the 'Bots, because this is constantly striving for new levels of "so bad it's good".

Name: Raroy
Started Reading: The first thread. A few pages in.
Joining GitP thread: Lurked for a long long time. Two years? Made a dumb post. Hid while I was in shame. Rinse and repeat.
Starting Disposition: War in hell. It was a question of, "Why do I even care anymore?"
Time to convert: Pretty early, class action I believe.
Current Stance: It's just a fantastic time waster.

Name: Raz_Fox
Started Reading: Around the time Pam broke up with Greg, took me several days to read through the entire thing.
Joining Thread: I decided to make a post about how I actually liked DD... on the day of Catboy Celesto.
Starting Disposition: It's alright. I like some of the characters, and it has room for improvement.
Time to Convert: I haven't yet. I enjoy both the comic and the threads about it. Collateral Damage Man... hehe.
Current Stance: Wait and see is my current stance.

Name: RedScholarGypsy
Started Reading: Roughly here in VoD http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2003-05-31 I saw it on keenspot and gave it a whirl.
Joining GiTP Thread: I saw 9th just as it was ending and was curious, and followed to X.
Starting Disposition: Puns are my crack. So bad for me, but I just need them. So DD seemed like another good source. Plot's also good, and if it's somewhat coherent I'll follow. Since it's hard to make me laugh, any comic that gets even a chuckle out of me I'll follow for a long time.
Time to Convert: Orcrape didn't affect me really, and Dejah calling it out was nice. But WiH continued...and continued... and am I the only one who thinks D deserved, if not that much beatdown, just a bit? Then Supergreg happened...and more bad comic book hero shtick...and instantly forgiving a mass-murdering oracle hunter? Plus alcoholic dwarves (But you better not stereotype orcs!) and every other tolkien race popped up, plus others. Next the cows will have a secret society. Hmmm...Dom in the secret cow level. Run gimpy! Yeah, i feel the snark.
Current Stance: Still somewhat a fan despite all. I usually read anything at the level it's presented. I don't expect sirloin steak when I buy a Hershey bar, but even I got pissed when cadbury shrunk the egg size, and that's kinda how I feel.

Name: rubakhin
Started Reading: Hrm - after my archive binge, I think I ended on the very day of SuperGreg. Jesus.
Joining GitP thread: When I finished it. I joined up just to read the snark thread. Now I am a marginally productive member of the GitP community!
Starting Disposition: The week I read it I was sorta nostalgic for when I was still in the single digits and liked watching kid's fantasy anime on TV (for some ungodly reason). It hit the spot at the time. I knew it wasn't fantastic or anything, but I got what I wanted out of it. And I liked that the love interest suffered from depression and a bad home life, and that earlier Dominic was a cranky reclusive bastard. Not so much heroic Dominic later on.
Time to convert: About a week after I finished it. I had thought the whole Snowsong arc was ridiculous and was having some issues with the protagonist and the condescension by then, but was willing to overlook all this. Only by then I had wandered on the snark threads and was digesting what I had read. After which I rapidly went from "That was flawed, but pretty satisfying" to "Wait a minute ... Goddamn it, that was awful!"
Current Stance: I think Mookie has some potential, if he just tried. Like the one time he drew a violin bow upside-down. (I still do not forgive. :smallmad:) It would have taken him thirty seconds to Google or YouTube a guy playing a violin and based his drawing off of that. Also, his experiments with a different facial style look markedly better than the snouts and cheek teeth we're used to, and I think a lot of the pacing problems and other kinds of things would clear up and evolve into something better if he switched to a typical comic/manga panel layout instead of adhering strictly to the four squares thing. Also, he'd benefit from an editor who can look over his scripts and point out when something doesn't make sense. He's never going to draw The Brothers Karamazov, but he could probably put together a nice way to kill time.

Name: SnowballMan : Arch-Nemesis to Johnny Blade
Started reading: No clue. I was looking for a new good comic to replace a few that had stopped being worth reading. And as with all new comics, I jump straight to the beginning and start archive binging until I decide it's not worth it or I come up to the current one.
Starting Disposition: I like really bad puns. So I liked the way it started out. I think I stopped reading it when they got to Sin City. The only thing that got me back into reading through the whole of the archives was the Strip Slay thread. I used to do that a lot with another comic, and when that comic ended I was going through withdraw. (of course, we were a lot less critical of the source material there)
Current Stance: Partly snarky with a chance of cynicism later in the day. Honestly, if it weren't for the Strip Slays I wouldn't still be reading.

Name: Spectralphoenix
Started Reading: Around the Orc Rape section (somebody linked to it to start a paladin debate on the Wizards boards.) Didn't seem as bad (writing-wise) without the thousand comics worth of context about how awesome the orcs were and how everyone who didn't like them sucked, and all the attempts to justify it later on in the arc.
Joining Thread: Now (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5333081&postcount=883).
Initial Stance: Started out kind of cool (the beginning of the comic, not the Orc Rape section,) then went downhill as the archives went on. Surely things were going to turn the corner and start improving again, right? RIGHT?
Time to Convert: I'm not sure if there was a single moment of insight when I realized just how bad the comic was or just a slow, steady march downward. It was probably around the Storm of Souls arc where things passed the Lameness Event Horizon.
Current Stance: So the last arc was basically a conspiracy by a dozen unrelated B-list characters to get together and talk about how awesome and important the Mary Sue is, and now we're in another never-ending battle sequence. Next up: Aforementioned Sue comes up with a ridiculous scheme to get rid of TiM and return Greg's superpowers (and possibly his ex-girlfriend.) Bonus points if this scheme gets Dex back with his ex. He only hit her instead of making misogynistic remarks like Taggerty did (and got killed for,) so he still has a chance.

name: starburst98
started reading: i think it was when dom slapped luna's mom with a fish.(i have lurked for EVER)
joined thread: finally see what was gong on in here
starting disposition: oh, another webcomic, i'll just read this
time to convert: think i finally said "screw it" around war in hell
current stance: hahaha, i can't believe i ever thought this was good!

Name: St. Salieri
Started reading DD: Around "Into the Woods" (the arc after Luna's introduction).
Joined GitP thread: I've followed the GitP DD discussion since late in the first thread, but only joined in a few pages ago.
Starting Disposition: When I started reading DD, I found the art charming, the writing clever, the characters engaging, and the puns deliciously bad. Little did I know that each of those qualities would be reversed in the years to come (except the puns, which just became stupid).
Time to convert: Medieval Rock Concert"Battle for Barthis" was one extended "WTF" for me (especially "salvation by rape" and the ensuing "in love with the rapist"). "War in Hell" slowed the descent somewhat, but not for long.
Current stance: This thread has grown steadily more entertaining in proportion to DD's increasing failure, and I now rely on it for my daily MST3K fix.

Name: Textual Predator
Started Reading: Somewhere around the end of Erossus/the start of Storm of Souls.
Joined GitP thread: Just now. I've been lurking for a while, though. The roll call seemed to be as good a time as any to jump in. Er...hi? (Editor's note: Hi )
Starting Disposition: Initially, it seemed pretty good. Not brilliant, by any stretch of the imagination, but I liked the fact that most of the characters had support abilities rather than openly offensive ones. It was like they were a low-level running a fantasy comic.
Time to convert: First came Mama Deegan. Then came the DBZ beam-trading antics of the Storm of Souls finale. The characters seemed to have suddenly power-levelled. With most of what I'd enjoyed about the strip stamped flat and left to die in the desert, I began to drift away, reading only out of inertia. Then came Orc Rape 2006, and a macabre fascination took hold of me. I may have gotten bored and wandered off a few times, but ultimately I couldn't stay away. I had to see what perversions of writing Mookie would attempt next. I never could have guessed just how deep the rabbit hole goes. These threads help soothe the madness, or at least to quantify it.
Current Stance: Horrified bemusement.

Name: Thalraxal
Started reading: Beginning of the Ecstasy and Evil arc (right whenever Stunt and Bumper ambushed Dom and Luna on their way to Erossus)
Joined GitP thread: Right now, have been an avid lurker since the Legendary First Thread
Starting disposition: Huge fan! DD was for a while one of my favourite comics, and one of the comics I suggested the most to my friends.
Time to convert (if applicable): Sometime during the War in Hell arc. I was surprised by Mookie's descion to go into the War in Hell so soon after SoS, and felt it would have been a better choice to give his cast a longer break instead of trying to one-up his last epic arc. I was also really worried about his habit of bringing back villains all the time, and didn't want to see the one villain he killed off for real (Helexia) come back again. The comic dropped off my regular reading list during the War in Hell, and I read it on and off throughout Two Thief or Not to Thief? and I probably would have dropped it completely before Snowsong if it weren't for this thread. Thanks alot guys.
Current stance: Everytime a storyline starts, I'm hopeful. I had the same feeling at the start of Snowsong, Shadow of Siggy, The Oracle Hunter and the current arc. It starts off good, and I get the feeling that this is going to be the story where Mookie gets good again... but he doesn't... and my hopes are dashed everytime. I keep reading partly because of this thread, partly because I do hope to one day have a webcomic of my own and I would like to avoid making the same mistakes Mookie has.

Name: TheCheshireHat
Started reading: I don´t quite remember, but I think it was sometime prior to the Storm of Souls arc
Starting Disposition: I liked it. Mostly, I think, this was a hangover from the archives but I still enjoyed it a fair deal. I couldn´t point to a precise moment, but eventually reading DD became a thing of habit.
Current Stance: I read it because otherwise I would miss out on the entertainment provided by this thread. I generally end up laughing at things that Mookie didn´t put in as jokes, and groaning at the jokes.

Name: Tom Violence
Started Reading: Archive-binged my way up to somewhere towards the end of the Storm Of Souls arc (which was current at the time) over the course of only an evening or so, but then stopped reading completely for quite a long time (I blame all the pictures of Mookie's greasy head that are wantonly bundled in with the strip). I then discovered this thread, thinking at the title "Yeah, I quite like that strip too", but on discovering all the snark within I had to know what inspired such bile.
Joining GitP thread: No frigging idea, really.
Starting Disposition: As mentioned, initial fan.
Time to convert: In a flash. I have a vague inclination that I found this strip around the War In Hell arc, so not only was I confronted by the horrors of the Orc Rape Is All Great bit, but also references to the wall of cheese that was the Rock Concert In A Fantasy Setting
Current Stance: This strip has made me vomit appear in my mouth, and this thread made me laugh my hole off, too many times for me to ever think of looking back on the days when I enjoyed the strip with anything other than confusion and embarrassment.

Name: Trazoi
Started Reading: Half-way through the Oracle Hunter arc. Archive binged at the end of the vacation arc.
Joining GitP thread: Somewhere in the middle of the epic thread. It started as just a few questions and small comments until I figured out the nuances of the comic.
Starting Disposition: I was one of those people who started reading because of the monster threads here. I couldn't help but be curious about this webcomic that caused so many posts. So I started reading through an already jaded lens.
Time to convert: If anything, archive binging caused me to convert the other way. Once I'd read all the background I can see why so many snarkers were once fans. I liked the early arcs of cranky Dominic getting cursed with fish on his head - then it started to fall apart as Luna stole more page time and everyone gained ridiculous powers.
Current Stance: The comic teeters on an edge between good and bad. Or perhaps good and dull. There's a spark of a great comic in here. I think if Mookie listened to a few critics, got a friend to act as editor to his ideas and put some effort into self development, I'd think this comic could really shine. But since it's been several years of this, I suspect he's in a rut and it's only going to devolve from here. As it stands, Dominic Deegan is the webcomic equivalent of a soap opera; silly fluff you can't take seriously but is yet somehow strangely compelling. Strangely, that makes it a better read than about three quarters of all webcomics out there...

Name: Turcano
Started Reading: Here (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-05-15).
Joined Thread: I started reading out of curiosity as to why the comic was generating such a large thread, so I entered the thread the day after I finished the archive trawl (around page 50 in the first thread).
Starting Disposition: I thought it was okay, but not that great; I particularly noticed the preachiness and the fact that Mookie apparently hadn't gotten over how he was treated in high school and was using the comic to hash these issues out vicariously.
Time To Convert: Almost immediately.
Current Stance: The comic is a joke of the unintentional variety; unlike lazier webcomic hacks like Tim Buckley, Mookie goes to great lengths to make his work as terrible as possible. However, the joke is not that funny on its own; if it weren't for this and the strip slay thread, I probably would have stopped reading over a year ago.

Name: Vael
Started reading: Around 'Class Action,' I believe. I archive binged.
Joining GitP thread: I lurked for a time, then posted on page 24 of the first thread.
Starting Disposition: I didn't really pay close enough attention to the comic until I started lurking, so I was initially disposed to be nice to it, but when I first posted in the thread, I had been convinced.
Time to Convert: Uh... difficult to pinpoint. I think I was most of the way through my archive binge when I looked at the thread, then as soon as I caught up I was a snarker.
Current stance: This comic is grotesque and yet somehow grand, sinking to magnificent depths that describe an almost artistic level of failure. It is not for someone such as I to perceive it fully- it is too alien and strange- but to even grasp a facet of its terrible splendor of ineptitude broadens my mind.
It's like if you converted Cthulhu to a badly made webcomic. This is what would happen.

Name: Webox
Started reading: Around the Oracle Hunter Arc.
Joining GitP thread: Lurked since the middle of the third thread.
Starting Disposition: Well... you hear a lot about DD in various places i check(TvTropes, GiTP, others) and I was curious what all the fuss was about. It didn't strike me as a good comic from the start, but it wasn't awful then, either.
Time to Convert: The main reason I wanted to read the whole comic was so I could understand what was going on in these DD threads, so almost as soon as I finished the archive binge(wich I often had to stop due to boredom, in various separate attemps) I started enjoying the snark here, but mostly lurked... then started actively snarking in the middle of the vacation arc.
Current stance: Im in a So Bad Its Good stance.

Name: Whoracle
Started Reading: Here (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-09-12), then went on an archive binge.
Joining GiTP Thread: Dunno when my first post was, and I don't post all too often, but I joined before I first looked upon DD.
Starting Disposition: "Let's see what this is about." -> Binge.
Time to Convert: Two days later, when I hit this (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2006-01-25) during my binge.
Current Stance: I've pretty much given up on the comic, but it's worth reading for the snark here alone.

Name: Winterwind
Started reading: During Storm of Souls
Joined GitP thread: ~page 50 of the First Thread (beginning of Snowsong arc)
Starting disposition: Optimistic if critical fan
Time to convert (if applicable): About 40 pages of GitP thread (end of Snowsong arc)
Current stance: Likes Dominic Deegan... because nothing is so very, very bad in so many, many ways. It's hilarious! I wouldn't want it to turn better even if it was, somehow, possible for Mookie!

Name: Wraith
Started reading: Somewhere around the apex of 'Into The Woods' and 'Couch Forts & Crying' (and mildly surprised that seemingly few people have been reading it for longer).
Joined GitP thread: February 14th, 2008 (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-02-13), midway through the Oracle Hunter arc and out of coincidence rather than seeking out like-minded souls.
Starting disposition: Mildly entertained by a value-for-money Gag-A-Day fantasy webcomic, and read out of habit more than anything else. DD was little more than a gentle distraction over lunchtime websurfing.
Time to convert (if applicable): After 2 pages of binging the contemporary Snark Thread, and realising how much more sense (and fun!) was to be had than contained in the actual comic.
Current stance: Reading DD occurs almost exclusively to understand the context behind the Snark, which itself is revered as though it were part of a much better comic about a similar subject. If I were to put it into Video Gaming terms, the Snark is our 'Zero Punctuation' compared to Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire's 'Ctrl+Alt+Del', if you will.

Name: I'm just that guy. (YeahThatGuy)
Started Reading: Reply Hazy, try again. My first memory of Dominic Deegan was in a thread somewhere when another member posted something along the lines of "LOLOL TEH NOES DIS BE TEH WURST PUN EVARZ". The look of the webcomic immediately killed any curiosity I had. Later, I remember seeing the thread here for Dominic Deegan. I read, found it humorous, and occasionally read a few of the most-current strips ( at the time it was Snowsong but before SuperGreg ) to know what the hell you people were muttering to yourselves about. When SuperGreg appeared I found the reactions to it quite amusing.
Joining GitP thread: Recently, as obvious by the date I joined.
Starting Disposition: Bland, uninteresting.
Time to convert: When people took note of how manipulative Dominic looked during the talking-heads ending of Snowsong, I discovered a new outlook of the world. Suddenly, instead of finding Dominic Deegan bland, I found it to be a rich lode of dark, disturbing humor ( my favorite ).
EDIT: By the way, actually analyzing old cartoons will net the same reaction as analyzing Dominic Deegan. I never cared for the Jetsons but after watching the episode that Mac is built on Boomerang again gave me the chills at how horrific such a future would be.
Current Stance: I read the current strip when I can, cry, then come here to make the burns from my acidic tears worth it. I have not gone through the archive and read through it all, although I usually read whatever strip is linked-to in this thread ( which, over the time period that I've visited this thread, is a lot ) and I will admit that Mookie has created ( or "borrowed"? ) many ideas that ( could ) have been very interesting and/or good. I think the format he uses has crippled him, preventing any of those ideas from actually reaching their potential.

Name: Yhuntresse
Started Reading: It was for a review I was doing of the webcomic where I started from the begining and ended near the begining of the Oracle Hunter arc.
Joining GitP thread: Mid-Oracle Hunter
Starting Disposition: The early stuff was mediocure with over-reliance on horrid puns and a writer who writes like a teenager who watches too much anime (and not the good kind). It just got worse as Dominic became more of a Mary Sue, the lack of subtilty, the stupid puns, bad art, too much of the ol' illusion trick, and character derailment that I skipped a few storylines to get my review done.
Time to convert: Instantaneous
Current Stance: DD is the comic I love to hate and mock. It's a perfect guide for aspiring writers on what not to do and a source of rage as to why such a hack can still have fans (I even met one once.)

[Domochevsky]

(reserved if needed; some of these Snarker Index posts are already at the maximum character number limit)

[averagejoe]

On Today's strip: (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-05-01) (for the benefit of anyone looking back on this.)

Mookie, hanging a lampshade only works if you don't suck. Otherwise it's just a reminder that you suck.

[Morty]

Mookie, hanging a lampshade only works if you don't suck. Otherwise it's just a reminder that you suck.

Mookie trying to hide his absolute lack of any sort of talent by saying "hahaha guys, I suck, eh?", "I've done it on purpose", or "I warned you there'll be X" isn't something new.
On another note, the ending of the previous thread made me want to play Mass Effect so that I know what you're all talking about. And I was planning to buy NWN2 and perhaps Stalker to catch up. Are you trying to bankrupt me?

[Humbug]

I'm more interested by the fact that you can have a gay relationship in Jade Empire. I must see this for myself! The lack of gay relationships in rpgs is saddening for me, as I was sorely disappointed with the "relationship" you supposedly have with the pirate from Temple of Elemental Evil.

[Paragraph]

HA! I can kick off our post in the new thread! Today's was HILARIOUS! I am such a sucker for self-referential humour...

Yeah, Mookie surely knows how to laugh at his own faults. He's really humble. So humble that he CONGRATULATES HIMSELF IN THE NEWSPOST for doing what he did!

It wasn't just that. The final beat panel was just used perfectly, something which is seldomly seen.

At least from Mookie, that's it. You know, you're pretty damn lucky I was too lazy to comment on those last few strips. Else this little moment of you getting the front row would have been totally drowned out in the sea of filth getting poured on us from Luna's side.

But I really wouldn't have been able to argue against you. Luna sucks. And this would have made for unfunny posts.

And, as we know, I like self-referential humour, so I didn't post!

HOLY **** THE FOURTH WALL OF THIS POST IT'S BREAKING DOWN!

Simon

[Fawkes]

In BioWare's defense, he's got claws, some freaky double-jaw thing, and sharp teeth. Of course, I guess it's a bit of a double-standard that they'll let you be a lesbian but not a masochist (though it's a much bigger double-standard that they'll let you be a lesbian but not a gay man).

'Course, I can kind of see where the outcry is coming from, since Garrus has hands-down the best character arc of all your teammates. Which is to say, Garrus has a character arc.

Wrex had somewhat of an arc, too. I used Garrus and Wrex pretty much the whole game, so I got to know them pretty well (along with Ashley, who I romanced). They were both pretty badass.

[Morty]

I hope noone's figured it out yet, I kind of glossed over the last two pages of the previous thread. But I think I know what will happen next. It'll turn out that there really are no differences in appearance between the clans and that orcs are just imagining them. Then Luna will make an inspirational speech about how they're all no different from each other and they should just hug, dance and frolic in the shadow of the First Mountain.

[Myrdhale]

Personally I wished you could have gotten alittle more close to Tali. Not physically, I suppose, since the whole weakened immune system thing would kinda make things awkward; "sorry guys, Me and Tali got alittle drunk and crazy last night and... well, long story short, I gave her a cold that killed her by morning. My bad!". But She was genuinly my favorite character out of all the people. All the love interests, on the other hand, were fairly bland and uninteresting.

AS for today's comic, anything I can say has probably already been said, but still; Copping to doing stuff badly doesn't make it ok. Nuff said. :smallyuk:

[Oracle_Hunter]

I hope noone's figured it out yet, I kind of glossed over the last two pages of the previous thread. But I think I know what will happen next. It'll turn out that there really are no differences in appearance between the clans and that orcs are just imagining them. Then Luna will make an inspirational speech about how they're all no different from each other and they should just hug, dance and frolic in the shadow of the First Mountain.
Nah, this was totally a throw-away line. I repeat: Luna is not going to do anything to enact the Prophecy; she will just blunder around, occasionally saying 'sup to the spirits, and eventually the Prophecy will just happen.

Bonus points if Dominic actually does the most to enact the Prophecy :smalltongue:

@Domochevsky - the "L" in "lost" must be capitalized or I shall go more insane :smalleek:

[Morty]

Nah, this was totally a throw-away line. I repeat: Luna is not going to do anything to enact the Prophecy; she will just blunder around, occasionally saying 'sup to the spirits, and eventually the Prophecy will just happen.

Bonus points if Dominic actually does the most to enact the Prophecy :smalltongue:


Okay, I can work with that: Dominic will make the inspirational speech while Luna blunders around cluelessly.

[Winterwind]

Okay, I can work with that: Dominic will make the inspirational speech while Luna blunders around cluelessly.While wondering what "unite the 5 clans in front of the mountain" might mean. :smallbiggrin:

[Morty]

While wondering what "unite the 5 clans in front of the mountain" might mean. :smallbiggrin:

Mongo no understand.

[Domochevsky]

I have to admit though that i liked the little lampshade hanging (Im kind of a sucker for that), it's at least a sign that he is aware of it. Of course he is also comfortable with it, so its not going to change in any way. :smallfrown:



While wondering what "unite the 5 clans in front of the mountain" might mean. :smallbiggrin:

Pschk, youre already blundering. It is supposed to happen "in the shadow" of it. :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, is there any point in them being there? I know that the world doesnt turn if they dont walk in it, but why not that dude with the funky beard (Stonewater?) or his ...rightfull wife? Melna?
Why does it have to be the very mighty and also very white Dominus and his equally racial (and much more mentally) challenged girlfriend? Do tusks make you really that special?

And why cant i think of a single damn thing to draw to that? :smallannoyed:


Mass Effect
I strongly disliked Ashley... damn brute. Kaidan on the other hand was awesome. So when The Arbitrary Decision came the choice was obvious. :smallbiggrin:
Tali would really have been a good option, i liked her much more than these damn Lun... Liara Bluetackle and Ashley McSquarejaw. But i also didnt really like FemShepard. Im not one for the serious military types. Damn you Bioware. :smallfrown:
(But i had other issues with Shepard in general... you were supposed to just ask whats wrong with him, not verbally blow his kneecaps off!)

And now that i found the option to disable the recharge timer for biotic powers playing as a pure Biotic is utterly awesome.)


Jade Empire
A damn awesome game, but the german synchro is... average. And theres only that one on the DVD. :smallannoyed:
Bioware shied a little away from the gay/lesbian/threesome options by blending off at the "now you may kiss him/her" sequence as the camera pans in. And they make it kinda hard to get them because the straight options will overrule them once you so much as look funny at someone. :smalltongue:


Oracle_Hunter, there you go. :smallwink:

[Mewtarthio]

Seriously, is there any point in them being there? I know that the world doesnt turn if they dont walk in it, but why not that dude with the funky beard (Stonewater?) or his ...rightfull wife? Melna?
Why does it have to be the very mighty and also very white Dominus and his equally racial (and much more mentally) challenged girlfriend? Do tusks make you really that special?

Actually, you may be on to something. What if the true nature of the prophecy is that the Chosen One must simply be in Maltak at the time? After all, the First Caste has to lure the Plot Monster over there for anything to happen (sadly, the Plot Monster seems to have sprained an ankle, since nothing's happened yet).

All this weird stuff about tusks making you special and Luna being the Watercaller is just heatstroke-induced hallucinations as Luna slowly dies of thirst in the middle of the desert.

[Gez]

All this weird stuff about tusks making you special and Luna being the Watercaller is just heatstroke-induced hallucinations as Luna slowly dies of thirst in the middle of the desert.

NO! We must not hope, for hope leads to crushed spirits. Stop tempting us with those wonderful, glorious scenarios in which Dom and Luna suffer agonizing deaths!

[Seonor]

*deactivate lurk-mode*

Something rather off-topic, but today I searched "dominic deegan" on google, and got the last thread as 12th result. Keep up the good work! :smallsmile:


*activating lurk-mode*

[Fawkes]

My brain hurts. (http://www.fanfiction.net/comic/Dominic_Deegan/)

[Hell Puppi]

Why do you do these things to me, Mechafox?
I thought we had something special.
:smallfrown:


Also Seonor has linked me to GG, which I have not caught up with in sometime and which is now offering a book with a pencil sketch.

I'm beginning to suspect treachery.

[Fawkes]

I can't decide which of those fanfics is the worst. Two of them aren't even fanfics. The other two aren't any better.

[Johnny Blade]

I can't decide which of those fanfics is the worst. Two of them aren't even fanfics. The other two aren't any better.
I say the fourth one is. Simply because it's so horribly uninspired. I didn't even read through it.
It's a reference, hur hur.
And needlessly verbose + referential = madeofyouwintheinternet.
Never mind that it doesn't even make sense and has been done to death.


Looking only at the two actual fanfics, I think the Stunt and Bumper fic is worse. The Sewing Lessons one suffers from overdescriptive purple prose, sure, but the Gay Bumper one isn't only poorly written, the idea behind it is also, honestly now, worse than anything Mookie himself could ever even dream about.

[Humbug]

So what have we learned this week? Luna must make the 5 clans boogie before some mountain. Mookie hung a lampshade on his art.

Carry on Mookie. :smallannoyed:

[Johnny Blade]

We also learned that the elements only like you if you've got tusks.

[Neoriceisgood]

On Today's strip: (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-05-01) (for the benefit of anyone looking back on this.)

Mookie, hanging a lampshade only works if you don't suck. Otherwise it's just a reminder that you suck.

I second this sentiment.

When I saw Mookie's punchline it provoked a strong " eeeh. :smallannoyed:"-reaction from me, because after like 6-7 years of not fixing the friggen problem, the bloke thinks he has the right to poke fun at it in a lighthearted manner.

If he actually tried to bloody improve his art and developed a style with different faces, he could show us he's a capable artist [well, more capable than he is now] rather than trying to turn it into a lighthearted "don't worry, I know I don't draw unique faces"-joke.


On that note, I think I officially reached the 4th level of DD reading.

1. normal reader: enjoys comic
2. hater: dislikes comic
3. snarker: enjoys disliking the comic
4. ****ing******** with **** on a ******** **** and a ****ingaton**** **** **** ****er: can't even enjoy disliking the comic anymore either.

[These are levels I made up on the spot, feel free to disagree/provide me with another more accurate way of measuring.]

[Mewtarthio]

"Sewing Lessons" is at least a little creepy, and it does reflect the nature of CrippleGregory's relationship with AwesomeJacob (but, sadly, has nothing at all to do with the relationship between Aardvark and The Villain Of A Thousand Motives). The Stunt/Bumper slash is so bad I wonder if it was part of some attempt at intentionally making a crappy fanfic. There's no excusing that weird travel spell thing (why not just link to IMDB and say "Imagine Dominic in everything"?), and I have no idea what's up with the MoriaCon thing or what it has to do with Dominic Deegan.

Hm... Why don't we have anything on there?

[Oracle_Hunter]

Hm... Why don't we have anything on there? To travel that path, is to walk the road to madness and damnation.

...although a Mary Sue Classic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySueClassic) being inserted into DD would be deliciously ironic.

No! Must... not... inspire... fanfics :smalleek:

[averagejoe]

1. normal reader: enjoys comic
2. hater: dislikes comic
3. snarker: enjoys disliking the comic
4. ****ing******** with **** on a ******** **** and a ****ingaton**** **** **** ****er: can't even enjoy disliking the comic anymore either.

[These are levels I made up on the spot, feel free to disagree/provide me with another more accurate way of measuring.]

Perhaps you'll reach the fifth level: enlightenment.

@Mewtarthio: I thought the Stunt and Bumper one was pretty awesome. It was pretty clearly written by someone who knew what he was doing. It had a secret handshake for heavens sake.

[Humbug]

We also learned that the elements only like you if you've got tusks.

Are you sure you don't mean Mary Sue? Coz I don' recall the elements making friends with the orcs. :smalltongue:

[Domochevsky]

Talking about undistinguishable faces... wasnt that also a problem with Megatokio? With that Author Avatar and his love interest whats-her-face... and that crazy dude and the leet ninja and those two Sony mooks and that majical girl and the TON of other-characters-who-all-seem-to-be-important-in-some-way-or-other-but-i-cant-remember-the-names-of-despite-the-comic-being-in-my-fav-list-for-years! :smallyuk:

[Trazoi]

[These are levels I made up on the spot, feel free to disagree/provide me with another more accurate way of measuring.]
I've got the same system for all serial entertainment:

1. Good
2. Bad
3. So Bad Its Good
4. So Bad Its Horrible
X. Boring

For me, Dominic Deegan was of type 3 - which I admit I kind of enjoy. But in the last few months it's been in serious danger of slipping off the scale into the killer rating of "Boring". As I posted during the height of the "Those Orcs are Crazy!" flashback sequences a week or so ago, this arc is killing off all empathy I have with any of the characters, and once that's gone I don't really have much emotional investment in what's going on.

As a side note, due to the sorts of discussions made here I've added TV Tropes as a search engine in my browser. Now the power of tropes is just a single mouse click away! :smallwink:

[Frogwarrior]

The Stunt X Bumper (Stumper?) fanfic was AWESOME! Mostly because I think there's NO WAY that wasn't written by someone deliberately trying to write something terrible, yet amusing.

Also, someone earlier had problems thinking of what Greg X Nimmel shipping would be called, I think. This surprised me. Grimmel just seems so obvious.

[Hell Puppi]

Talking about undistinguishable faces... wasnt that also a problem with Megatokio? With that Author Avatar and his love interest whats-her-face... and that crazy dude and the leet ninja and those two Sony mooks and that majical girl and the TON of other-characters-who-all-seem-to-be-important-in-some-way-or-other-but-i-cant-remember-the-names-of-despite-the-comic-being-in-my-fav-list-for-years! :smallyuk:

That's one of the problem with most anime faces- they're interchangeable aside from scarce few characteristics. Slightly longer nose, bigger/smaller eyes, etc.

They are however, hard to stop doing once you start them. It's a trap I've fallen into, which is why I admire Humbug's art and actually asked for a link because I'd like to attempt something like her style in order to break away from 'anime face'.

Now that's not to say all anime is the exact same. I could tell you the difference between, say, Hellsing's art and that of Angel Sanctuary in a minute, but once you peel away the awesome clothes/cool hair everyone has the same dang face.

Edit- Humbug, I just realized I don't know your gender and just assumed you were a her. Yeah I don't know what that says about me.

[The Linker]

...but once you peel away the awesome clothes/cool hair everyone has the same dang face.

I'm having that problem with Nanase in EGS now, honestly. Even though she has the most unique eyes of the group, I simply cannot see her as the same character now that she no longer has her ponytail style. Gah! The black-and-white probably doesn't help, either.

[Silverblood]

Mongo no understand.

Mongo only pawn... in game of life


Edit: AARgh. Now I'm going to read all her lines in Mongo-voice!

Also, regarding the so-called 'lampshading'
I don't think Mookie's poking fun at his art, I think it's mockery of the orcs/clueless and racist outsiders. That is, seeing them as the same and being completely oblivious to all the subtle differences that CLEARLY show they come from different clans.

[Fawkes]

Self-deprecating humor!

Some weeks you have to end on a cliffhanger. Some weeks you just have to end making fun of yourself.

:smallwink:

[The Linker]

I can tell the last few pages were skimmed. Even the Mongo joke was already done in the last thread, too. :smalltongue: :smallbiggrin:

[Oracle_Hunter]

As a side note, due to the sorts of discussions made here I've added TV Tropes as a search engine in my browser. Now the power of tropes is just a single mouse click away! :smallwink:
You did what now? :smalleek:

How is this done, and why don't I have it already?

[Trazoi]

You did what now? :smalleek:

How is this done, and why don't I have it already?
I'm using Opera, but any browser that allows you to specify your own search engines should be similar:

Go to the browser preferences and find where they define all the search types available (Google, Yahoo, Wikipedia, eBay etc:)

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/7843/searchwindow.jpg


Make a new entry for TV Tropes and fill out the relevant details. The key line for Opera is:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SearchWiki?text=%s

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/5792/tvtropespane.jpg

The "%s" is replaced by whatever text you enter into the search, so it does a wiki search based on the string. If it's different for your browser, just check what one of the other searches uses (Wikipedia might be a good choice, as it's also a wiki). The only possible change would be the %s - the rest should be the same.

Once that's done, you should be able to do a TV Tropes search using the handy search widget in the corner of your browser:

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/3053/searchoption.jpg


This works with just about any website with search capabilities if you've got other sites you frequently need to find things on. Well, anything with text based searches... it's no good for searching webcomic archives. :smallwink:

[Humbug]

Edit- Humbug, I just realized I don't know your gender and just assumed you were a her. Yeah I don't know what that says about me.
You are correct actually. I think you can tell with the way I type, since most people tend to guess I'm a girl judging from my posts. Tho people have thought I was a guy just from looking at my art alone.

[Seonor]

I'm using Opera, but any browser that allows you to specify your own search engines should be similar:



Firefox works also. And there are several addons to help edit wikis like tvtropes.org.

[High-Chancellor]

That's one of the problem with most anime faces- they're interchangeable aside from scarce few characteristics. Slightly longer nose, bigger/smaller eyes, etc.

They are however, hard to stop doing once you start them. It's a trap I've fallen into, which is why I admire Humbug's art and actually asked for a link because I'd like to attempt something like her style in order to break away from 'anime face'.

Now that's not to say all anime is the exact same. I could tell you the difference between, say, Hellsing's art and that of Angel Sanctuary in a minute, but once you peel away the awesome clothes/cool hair everyone has the same dang face.

Edit- Humbug, I just realized I don't know your gender and just assumed you were a her. Yeah I don't know what that says about me.

You can actually say that about a lot of drawing and animation styles even in the west, not including extensively stylized stuff. It's the problem of toning down on detail for actually having to DRAW it, and draw it over and over again.

obviously there are some exceptions in the west, but there are exceptions in the east also.

[Johnny Blade]

Are you sure you don't mean Mary Sue? Coz I don' recall the elements making friends with the orcs. :smalltongue:
Yeah, well you've got to have special tusks, of course. And you have to accept them as part of yourself. :smallwink:

[AgentPaper]

Also, "Accepting them as part of yourself" now means "Whining endlessly about them and trying to kill yourself because you have them, repeatedly."

Not to mention how it's implied that Dominic and Luna only developed a relationship because she had tusks.

But that's old news. :smallyuk:

Edit: Since this thread is rarely on-topic anyways, how do I get Firefox to add more searches? I have Google and Wikipedia on there by default (got rid of all the others) but I'd love to add TV Tropes and Mangafox to that as well.

Also, typing in text in the HTML bar (instead of the search area) also used to automatically search google, and often times it would just bring me right to the most relevant page. (like hitting "feeling lucky") Then I installed something which also installed an ask.com toolbar, which I deleted, but now no matter what options I change typing in stuff in the HTML bar brings up an ask.com search, which is stupid and dumb and I wish it would die. I tried installing the google toolbar, but that didn't help. I want my easy browsing back! :smallannoyed:

[Johnny Blade]

Also, "Accepting them as part of yourself" now means "Whining endlessly about them and trying to kill yourself because you have them, repeatedly."
Until you realize that you can get laid regardless. :smallamused:

[AgentPaper]

Until you realize that you can get laid regardless. :smallamused:

That seems to have stopped the suicide issue (perhaps she's something of a necrophiliac, and was just trying to release her...urges?) but she's still got the self esteem problem...except when she's being applauded for how strong-willed she is. (or rolls high on a d20)

[Trazoi]

Edit: Since this thread is rarely on-topic anyways, how do I get Firefox to add more searches? I have Google and Wikipedia on there by default (got rid of all the others) but I'd love to add TV Tropes and Mangafox to that as well.
I mainly found out about the Opera ability by trial and error. I never properly configured the browser and I was cleaning up. I've also now only got Google, Wikipedia, history, find-in-page and my custom searches (currently just TV Tropes). Who uses Yahoo or Ask (which should have remained Ask Jeeves)?

I thought Firefox would be just as easy, but I can't find anything obvious on my version. Wikihow has a tutorial (http://www.wikihow.com/Add-a-Custom-Search-Engine-to-Firefox's-Search-Bar-(Windows-Version)) for how to do it in Windows, but it involves hacking a few config files.

Re: Luna and the actual comic. I'd say my biggest gripe is that she's just so passive, which is not a trait that heroes have. I can't remember her doing much on her own initative. I wasn't sure why the general consensus was that she was First Caste; she seems to have the Second Caste's inability to solve her own problems without help.

[Humbug]

I wouldn't even say Greg is first Caste, since everything he's done has been under the 'guidance' of Dominic. How did he first defeat TIM? Dominic. How did he release his Healing Fire? Dominic. How did he become... *shudder* Yup. Dominic. :smallyuk:

SO I guess only Dommie and Mama Deegan are first Caste, and maybe Dad too, but has he done anything useful? At all?

[Seonor]

Edit: Since this thread is rarely on-topic anyways, how do I get Firefox to add more searches? I have Google and Wikipedia on there by default (got rid of all the others) but I'd love to add TV Tropes and Mangafox to that as well.


The easiest way is to either install this (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3682) addon and ad the aditional searchengines manually (just right-click in a searchfield, choose "ad to searchbar" give it a name and you are ready) or go to this (http://mycroft.mozdev.org/index.html) site and look if they have the site you want. They have both tvtropes.org and mangafox. I don't know if they work with the last update since I am currently not at home and can't test them, but they worked just fine a month ago.



Also, typing in text in the HTML bar (instead of the search area) also used to automatically search google, and often times it would just bring me right to the most relevant page. (like hitting "feeling lucky") Then I installed something which also installed an ask.com toolbar, which I deleted, but now no matter what options I change typing in stuff in the HTML bar brings up an ask.com search, which is stupid and dumb and I wish it would die. I tried installing the google toolbar, but that didn't help. I want my easy browsing back! :smallannoyed:

Changing the html bar is rather annoying, give me a minute to look for the right solution...


EDIT:Got it. Type
about:config in your html bar. look for the line keyword.URL.

Change it to


data:text/plain,keyword.URL=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=

and you are done.

[Trazoi]

SO I guess only Dommie and Mama Deegan are first Caste, and maybe Dad too, but has he done anything useful? At all?
Donovan? He was pretty proactive during the Battle of Barthis arc, and if I remember correctly he did some sleuthing on his own accord in Oracle Hunter. He doesn't just hang around and wait until his wife or bossy son tell him what to do. I'd say he's First Caste, and impressively so given he's nowhere near as overpowered as Dom, Miranda or many of the Second Caste even.

I agree with you on Greg. Being told what to do by Dominic is a canon defining character trait of his.

So apart from Dominic, Miranda and Donovan, I don't think are any other First Caste. Everyone else either needs to be told what to do (Second Caste), or in Dom's eyes is somewhat on the unsavoury side or needs conversion (Third or Fourth Caste). The only exception is the Zeroth Caste member Bort, who is above the system.

[Silverblood]

I can tell the last few pages were skimmed. Even the Mongo joke was already done in the last thread, too. :smalltongue: :smallbiggrin:

I know >.< But the thread tends to power forward three pages in the early am for me, so I have to make my comebacks late or never.

[Morty]

Since it's weekend and Mookie didn't throw us anything to mercilessly snark at today, I'll take apart a piece of his brilliance from War in Hell. Specifically, this (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2006-04-07) and even more specifically, the second panel. I'm no rocket scientist, but I don't think that being a "sucker for earth science"(what the hell does "earth science" even mean? Hasn't he heard of geology?) in school is sufficient to know that there's a cave under a rock just by looking at it. Especially if your career afterwards had very little to do with the subject. Finally, being a "sucker for earth science" is yet another of Dominic's abilities that come out of the blue and we never hear about them ever again.

[Mr. Scaly]

Friday's comic: more proof that Mookie lurks among us. ...And the playground needs a proper shifty eyes emoticon.

As for the last couple of days...can anybody explain to me what's going on? I'm confused. Something about Luna being the only one to adjust to having tusks makes her destined to be attuned to the element of water and...what???

[Gez]

Something about Luna being the only one to adjust to having tusks makes her destined to be attuned to the element of water and...what???

It makes sense, if you remember what Luna would really look like if Mookie was able to give different faces to different characters.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/91/walrus.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=walrus.jpg)

[Helanna]

(what the hell does "earth science" even mean? Hasn't he heard of geology?)

Earth Science is actually a science course, at least where I live. It basically deals with geology (tectonic plates and such), astronomy, and probably some other stuff I've forgotten.

Everything else, though, yeah . . .

Oh and thanks to those who posted on how to get a TV Tropes search box! This is most amazing! It will be very helpful to me, I'm sure.

I went to the Just Bugs Me (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/JustBugsMe/DominicDeegan) page for Dominic Deegan. That's a very . . . interesting page. A little bit of conflict there . . .

[Morty]

Earth Science is actually a science course, at least where I live. It basically deals with geology (tectonic plates and such), astronomy, and probably some other stuff I've forgotten.


Okay then, I'll hand that one to Mookie. Is it taught in high school though?

[Raroy]

Okay then, I'll hand that one to Mookie. Is it taught in high school though?

My high school, yeah. It's more of the "I don't want to take chemistry so I'll just easy mode it." kind of class.

[ninja_penguin]

Okay then, I'll hand that one to Mookie. Is it taught in high school though?

Yeah, where I teach, they have a generic Freshman science class, and then Biology and Earth science are the next two steps depending on if you want physical sciences or life sciences.

[Morty]

Oh-kay. Looks like I wasn't giving Mookie enough credit here. In my high school, it was called "geography".

[Mr. Scaly]

It makes sense, if you remember what Luna would really look like if Mookie was able to give different faces to different characters.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/91/walrus.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=walrus.jpg)

But if Luna is secretly a walrus doesn't that mean all the orcs are walruses and areequally water attuned?

[Gez]

No, it's not the same tusks, see? Here's an orc:
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/980/elephantkid.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elephantkid.jpg)

Oops, sorry. There's no cars in the Dominion. Here's an orc:
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1428/warthogy.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=warthogy.jpg)

[High-Chancellor]

Orcs are boar-walrus hybrids.

They do have that whole water affinity for cleansing the plains or whatever... or wait... maybe there boar's who WANT to be walrii! That's why they like luna so much, since she's a walrus she brings the water back and such.


I think you may be on to something gentlemen.

[Mr. Scaly]

Oh yes. THAT makes it MUCH clearer. :smallwink:

[Johnny Blade]

I went to the Just Bugs Me (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/JustBugsMe/DominicDeegan) page for Dominic Deegan. That's a very . . . interesting page. A little bit of conflict there . . .
Now there's something I just can't understand. The fact that people like reading it - okay, I can live with that.
But participating in a discussion like this means those who defend the comic have to think about it and then still end up regarding it as a good webcomic.
And that's just weird.


Also:
"I mean, really, it's like he just can't win. If he doesn't exhaustively research everything, he's called out for being stupid (look at the whole "glasswood" BS, for example), and even if what he says is backed up by research, people will still say he's wrong (the whole "aged beers" thing)."

Whoever wrote that managed to amuse me greatly. Thanks for that.

[Castel]

Dammit. Now I can't take the "I am the Walrus" song from the beatles out of my head. Koo Koo Ka Choo

About the JBM page for DD:

I haven't read that one in a long time. I just remember the first few examples being hilarious because of the scratched text and edits. :smallbiggrin:

Especially the Illusion ones.

Edit(just read it):
Well... Damn it. :smallmad:

[High-Chancellor]

Someone really needs to go on the just bugs me page and explain to those people in detail why it is a horrible comic strip.

Especially supergreg.


I would, but trying to add things to TVtropes confuses and baffles me beyond my ability to want to figure out how it works.

[Johnny Blade]

You could just kindly ask them to explain to you how the current arc makes any sense.

If you're really mean, you can also ask about Visions of Doom. :smallamused:

[Helanna]

I generally tend not to edit Dominic Deegan pages on TV Tropes. I try and respect that yes, not only do some people actually like it, some of them actually think it's good. We don't have the right to tell them that their opinions are astonishingly wrong, even if it's true.

That last little rant on the page, though . . . yeah, somebody was clearly having issues. Wait . . .


If he doesn't exhaustively research everything, he's called out for being stupid (look at the whole "glasswood" BS, for example)

Figuring out that wood does not explode like glass =/= exhaustive research. It's more like . . . not be suck-ish. I realize that everyone here knows that, but I had to actually type it out just to work through the stupidity of that statement.

Edit: I thought that was one of the stupidest things I ever heard. Then I read this on the CMoA page:


Dex Garrit is cool enough normally , but after Getting back up after sustaining what everyone thought were lethal injuries pushes him into complete Badass territory.

. . .

Oh, and then on the Characters page!


Or we could avoid turning this space into another cesspool for the whiners to bitch about a good webcomic they just love to hate too much to pull their heads out of their asses.

. . . alright, I'm done going through the TV Tropes pages now.

[Morty]

To be frank, last time I checked CMoA trope was applied to every moment a character does anything remotely competently and in a slightly impressive manner, so Built to Resist being a CMoA for Dex isn't that much of a stretch.

[Johnny Blade]

To be frank, last time I checked CMoA trope was applied to every moment a character does anything remotely competently and in a slightly impressive manner, so Built to Resist being a CMoA for Dex isn't that much of a stretch.
I think that post qualifies as a double-CMoA then. :smallwink:

EDIT: On another note: Death Dragon, I've got a plot idea for Second Coming. Do you trust me enough to just do it, or should I post the idea over in the DDSC thread first? :smallwink:

[Helanna]

Nah, just go for it. I definitely trust you to come up with awesome strip-slaying ideas, and it's not like we have a set plan right now anyways. I'll adapt.

[Castel]

Recent Links made me (re)discover "Mount Tulag (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2006-04-12)."

A place that once held an infernal gate. Or, as it is know today, "a Gate to the Court of Karnak."

I guess that Karnak is really making an appearance in "The Last Mountain" (*Thunder!*).

[Trazoi]

I've skimmed through the Just Bugs Me page too, and I've only got one question...

...who is Dom's old pal Mosly? And why does he want to kill Ethelia? :smallconfused:

[Oracle_Hunter]

I generally tend not to edit Dominic Deegan pages on TV Tropes. I try and respect that yes, not only do some people actually like it, some of them actually think it's good. We don't have the right to tell them that their opinions are astonishingly wrong, even if it's true.
Ironically, a snarker (me :smallbiggrin:) wrote the original Dominic Deegan TV Tropes page - and it wasn't easy! The True Blue DD Fans came in fast and hot on the original, snark-light description of the comic; fortunately Elder Tropers noted that TV Tropes is not Wikipedia - you can have snark in your pages.

Eventually I got tired of keeping it up, so it has moved to its current state - not bad, but Wiki Schizophrenia (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WikiSchizophrenia) has definitely set in. At least the Character Page (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/DominicDeegan) still has the Caste System largely intact.

Anyhoo, it's really for the best to let the rabid fanbase have their Justifying Edits (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JustifyingEdit) and Take Thats (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeThat); anyone who actually reads the comic will probably be able to look at the comic, and then look at the shrill justifying edits, and draw their own conclusions.

Also: did someone here invent Team Switzerland (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TeamSwitzerland)? :smallconfused:

[LeslieR]

I like Dominic Deegan because it's fun, it's playful and the characters and setting have a certain element of whimsy I find appealing, for everything else there's the MST3K Mantra.

Most 'I like DD for the Snark-Bait' fans claim to have at one time simply been 'I like DD' fans at one point, which brings us to a simple truism. ALL stories have flaws regardless of medium, whether it's Shakespeare, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, that Fan-Fic you just wrote, and even OotS. Granted, the number and severity of flaws varies but that's not the point..

...the point is, when you like something the flaws just don't matter. Once a fan is 'Hooked' by a particular story/setting it's easy to overlook any and all flaws in the overall work like they have their own weirdness censor. On the other hand, if you dislike something the flaws tend to stand-out and draw attention to themselves like when the sad results of that session over NaughtyNakedNuns.com are revealed at a club you forgot has blacklights.

The Snark-fans simply found a point where the MST3K Mantra was no longer sufficient, their Suspension of Disbelief had already gone to 11 but their further enjoyment required even more, that's when it all comes crashing down like the realization one should always do laundry Before going clubbing.

Mookie of course is one not to be intimidated by things like 'accepted genre conventions' when writing something he thinks is fun, so the opportunities for this are many and varied.

"Wait-Wut? The Elemecha? Deus Is Machina? Unpossible!"

"Wait-Wut? Orcs are Herbivores? Unpossible!"

"Wait-Wut? Speed Metal concert in a Medieval-Fantasy setting? Unpossible!"

"Wait-Wut? Hairy Biker Dwarf-Chicks? Unpossible!"

"Wait-Wut? Supergreg? Unpossible!"

Etc.. etc..

Works for any story/franchise with a strong Hatedom, the most virulent haters will usually be the ones who used to be fans.. the 'won't be fooled again' effect at work.

[Castel]

Wait, no one ever said "Orcs being hervivores" was "unpossible".

It is just dumb. Very, very, very dumb.

.... wait, so is Supergreg.

And that concert. "Electric Guitars"..... *shudder* :smalleek:

[Trazoi]

Orcs being herbivores as a concept isn't dumb at all. It's when the rest of their society doesn't reflect that one jot that it starts being a wall-banger. We were joking about the "proud vegetarian hunters" and how Maltak must have been full of carnivorous tomatoes long before Petey Piranha was shown to be canon. And even that doesn't explain why orcs picked up archery (good against birds, not so good against plants).

[Castel]

I always thought it was a dumb doncept because i always imagined Mookies reasoning behind that was:

"Hmm... I want to introduce orcs to my story. But I dont want them to be like every other orc out there. What ever can I do?
Well... aren't orcs usually savage barbarians that devore what they kill in an unsightly manner?
Of course! I shall have them be vegetarians! Have them cultivate edible plants and all that! But, wait! They have those pesky pointy teeth... I know! I'll say they are used to eat some very hard roots!

You've done it again, Mookie. :smallamused:"
Mookie's voice is to be read in a Large Ham-ish way.

[Trazoi]

Well... yeah. It's the superficiality of them being herbivores that's the problem.

I don't mind the use of the trope Our Orcs Are Different (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurOrcsAreDifferent), although Maltak's orcs seem rather similar to Warcraft orcs. My issue is more that the differences are treated like labels, like a checklist: "Orcs are a) green with tusks b) proud hunter/gatherers c) herbivores". There doesn't seem to be any effort to make all these labels mesh together into something that actually works. There's a bunch of these for every race, and as you pointed out they seem to have just been thrown in because they sounded cool at the time. That's not the recipe for a cohesive fantasy world.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Hey Leslie, first off, no one here is telling you to not enjoy DD, and if they are, then they're wrong. I know that's not an issue that you have, but I just say that so if I do so, you can read my sig and then call me on it. :smallwink:

For the most part, I do agree with you. You take what you get at the level it's presented. The example I use is that you don't expect a steak when you buy a candy bar. That said, there is a large difference between Flaw (a feature that mars the perfection of something; defect; fault) and a Failing (an act or instance of failing; failure). Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/). I won't argue which of the two apply to the examples you sited; we have far larger issues with DD:

1) The lack of growth in artistic quality was just 'lampshaded' by Mookie, but this would not be a problem if it was already at a decent level. I imagine just buying a few of those wooden human models would leaps and bounds to his skills. I'm not artistic myself in this direction, so I'll let others expound.

2) The manipulation/castration of established canon to suit the present whims and fancies of the author is simply unprofessional. Using retcons instead of foreshadowing and deus ex instead of Chekov's gun is just poor writing. The addition then amplification of Siggy's racism to justify his killing a character when earlier evidence never existed was unnecessary and somewhat insulting. Luna's fangs being a mystical gift the appeared only a few decades ago instead of a genetic flaw that wasn't mysterious at all and commonly accepted. The Chosen going from a small group seemingly unsupported to a world-threatening cabal that is unknown to the protagonist even though his mother fought them on multiple occasions and he's supposedly a bookworm. Suspension of Disbelief is impossible when nothing that has been established can be trusted. Who truely believes that Captain America will stay dead?

3) The Moral Blindness is staggering. I won't go into it as I imagine somone has already ninja'd me and explained it already :smalltongue:. I'll leave it to this strip (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2006-02-25) to explain: Dominic doesn't defend the actions dejah mentioned, but made it clear it was Against the Word of Dominus to actually question/think critically about those in the upper Castes


I could go on and discuss the flawed logic of D's plans or the helplessness of some supposedly strong/smart characters without first caste help, but I want to see what others have ninja'd me on already.

[averagejoe]

I like Dominic Deegan because it's fun, it's playful and the characters and setting have a certain element of whimsy I find appealing, for everything else there's the MST3K Mantra.

If you'll pardon the presumption, I don't think you understand what the MST3K mantra refers to. It's a statement about not letting those "wizard did it" moments bother you. Most of what we snark about-inconsistent writing, shoddy art, plot holes, dialogue, etc-are not the sort of things that the MST3K mantra was intended to excuse.


Mookie of course is one not to be intimidated by things like 'accepted genre conventions' when writing something he thinks is fun, so the opportunities for this are many and varied.

Most writers who claim this do so to justify the fact that they're bad writers and they can't and/or refuse to improve on the areas where they're deficient. I mean, very few people actually care about genre conventions anymore, a statement like this is just one of those ways writers take their flaws and make those flaws not their fault.

Anyways, I haven't seen much of anything in Dominic Deegan which defies genre conventions in any but minor ways, especially considering that the genre today is so acceptive of various "punk" styles and settings. Anachronism and minor tweaks to established fantasy races does not make a defiance of genre convention. That's not how defying genre conventions works.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Mookie of course is one not to be intimidated by things like 'accepted genre conventions' when writing something he thinks is fun, so the opportunities for this are many and varied.
There is a line between "flaunting conventions" and "ignoring basic principles of storytelling and plotting." Now, I'm all for people pushing the boundaries of their medium and letting people like whatever they want but there is a craft to storytelling separate from conventions and Mookie... well, he just doesn't try very hard to tell a good story.
This is aside from questionable choices such as having cartoon violence (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2002-08-17) mix with bloody violence (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-04-20) within the same storyline (resulting in this morally ambiguous page (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-08-05)), or having characters blow off dire events that provoke empathy from normal people (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-12-07). No, I am talking about endless repetition (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-04-23) of (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-04-24) the (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-04-28)same (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-04-29) information (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-04-30), awkwardly trying to tie unrelated events into a cohesive story (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-10-17), and writing dialogue that makes your "heroes" accidentally look like jerks (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-07-30).

At its root, Mookie's problem is that he can't decide whether he wants to tell a serious story or a joke-a-day strip. In a serious story, actions have consequences and people have to deal with them; in a joke-a-day strip you can Reset Button and Handwave all you want. Mookie tries to have it both ways - and Luna is a great example.

Originally, Luna was a suicidally depressed girl that Dominic took in, in an attempt to show her that she was worthwhile. Creepy strips aside (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2002-09-09), Mookie depicted her journey towards greater self-reliance - and included momentary reversals (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2003-01-15) to show that it was a struggle. But eventually, Mookie got tired of this storyline and started playing their relationship for laughs - with emotionally abusive language being no more than foreplay (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-07-12) as an example - and later ignored Luna's own traumatic upbringing in order to quickly absolve a "good" character of murdering her sister. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2006-11-10) What happened to Luna-as-dramatic-figure? Can you care for a character whose struggles aren't taken seriously in the story?

Luna is certainly not the first character Mookie has derailed at a whim. Do you remember when Gregory didn't like to think of his White Fire as a superpower? (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2004-06-07) Or when he decided to carry his staff around to remind him of his true calling? (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-08-20) Both went out the window when Mookie wanted to have some superheroes flying around (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-08-09), or needed Gregory to kick-ass and take names instead of healing the wounded. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-11-16) And Jayden, the pious and loyal woman? When Mookie needed some reason for Milov to flip out, he made Jayden have sex with the brutal and (apparently) unrepentant Siggy because he was nice to Quilt. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-09-29) This is not about "electric guitars" or "spandex superheroes" in a fantasy setting; Mookie has serious problems as a writer and an artist (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-11-08) that he does not seem to want to address. Of course DD can be enjoyed as a not-serious comic - after all, that's basically how we all enjoy it over here :smalltongue:

[LeslieR]

I see, snarking DD IS Serious Business. :smallbiggrin:

[Trazoi]

I see, snarking DD IS Serious Business. :smallbiggrin:
Of course it is. Haven't you read the Encyclopedia Dominica (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6056152&postcount=1) on the first page of this thread?

[AgentPaper]

So, I decided to give the DD TV tropes entry (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DominicDeegan) a lookover, and have spotted something rather...odd. According to the "Real Men Wear Pink" entry, DD is the trope namer. Which is just plain ridiculous. I've been hearing the "Real Men Wear Pink" line far longer than DD has been around, not to mention seeing it on shirts and the like.

Surely this is just some mis-aimed fan who thinks Mookie came up with this awesome concept first, right? :smallamused:

[Oracle_Hunter]

So, I decided to give the DD TV tropes entry (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DominicDeegan) a lookover, and have spotted something rather...odd. According to the "Real Men Wear Pink" entry, DD is the trope namer. Which is just plain ridiculous. I've been hearing the "Real Men Wear Pink" line far longer than DD has been around, not to mention seeing it on shirts and the like.

Surely this is just some mis-aimed fan who thinks Mookie came up with this awesome concept first, right? :smallamused:
The real problem is nobody can seem to find an earlier example of the phrase. At least I can't, or I would've thrown in an "Older Than You Think" entry.

[Trazoi]

According to my Google-fu, the most common reference appears to be a series of novelty shirts that were around in the early part of the decade - popular enough for a Wikipedia article. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tough_Guys_Wear_Pink). Unfortunately I don't have enough definited dates to figure out which came first.

[High-Chancellor]

I think it just came out when the generation of metrosexuals was first taking off.

It's definitely older than DD, by years I'd say, if not more. It's pretty much the standard "comfortable in my masculinity" phrase for any guy who's either trying to explain away some sort of action others would see as girly, or is simply excusing it.

I'm not sure if it's from anywhere in particular. Might have been a marketing thing. Think I recall seeing it on a commercial once...


Mostly I know it was around before DD, because I remember my inward groan when reading the relevant strip.

Man... I even did the inward groan all the way back then... why have I been reading this thing that long?

[Oracle_Hunter]

According to my Google-fu, the most common reference appears to be a series of novelty shirts that were around in the early part of the decade - popular enough for a Wikipedia article. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tough_Guys_Wear_Pink). Unfortunately I don't have enough definited dates to figure out which came first.
I was not aware Wikipedia had a category labeled Fads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fads). Do you understand how dangerous that knowledge is for me? :smalleek:

[Kizor]

I don't think snarking is all that Serious Business to the regulars here, but they've been around long enough to get very good at it. :smallbiggrin: They also keep track of their accomplishments well. (And there are accomplishments: that's why I'm here, because people are building stuff instead of only tearing down others'.)


If you'll pardon the presumption, I don't think you understand what the MST3K mantra refers to. It's a statement about not letting those "wizard did it" moments bother you. Most of what we snark about-inconsistent writing, shoddy art, plot holes, dialogue, etc-are not the sort of things that the MST3K mantra was intended to excuse.

I call MST3K mantra to your rebuffal of the MST3K mantra. It's clear what she meant. Leslie's description of the way people gloss over faults until the suspension of disbelief snaps, causing a backlash fall to snarkdom, sounds remarkably accurate. Maybe we could add the bit from "...the point is" to "going clubbing" to Why We Snark.

And for an unrelated funny finish... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REl64B2oB1U)

[Trazoi]

I was not aware Wikipedia had a category labeled Fads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fads). Do you understand how dangerous that knowledge is for me? :smalleek:
You have no idea. I once was working on an architecture diagram for a programming project of mine, and a combination of an overactive imagination and access to the internet turned it into a 1930s private detective comic.... about program architecture.

I get sidetracked very easily.

[AgentPaper]

I find the discussion page there to be hilarious. Some of the arguments even seem to be rationale and justified...until I remember that this is Dominic Deegan they're talking about, I remember exactly what happened, and Brett Taggertry got much more than Karmic Death. Even on the main page:

(On Luna lobbing a fireball at an illusionist prankster) "from the intended viewpoint, cartoon slapstick violence. Creatively misinterpreted, a main character spurned by a trickster murdering him and a number of bystanders, which she has every right to do because she's a main character."

I would accept this as cartoon slapstick if it was on cartoon network, where dynamite blowing up in your hands is similar in fatality to a pie in the face. In a fantasy comic where people have died, and rather grotesquely, I don't see how a fireball landing directly on a group of people wouldn't at the very least light them all of fire, no matter how wet they are.

I know some people do take the snarking farther than is deserved, but when they start defending glasswood, it's just impossible to take them seriously. :smallbiggrin:

[Kizor]

Hey, it didn't say the fireball was good slapstick... anyway, I'm actually having a discussion on the DD tropes discussion page (gasp!) about the validity of some bashing. I need to call on your knowledge.

* Are there more instances of glasswood (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-01-06)? A single one is pretty flimsy, even if it's representative of all the madness in the comic.
* How exactly are the Semashi unfortunate implications for Italians? I don't get it myself.

[Trazoi]

I call MST3K mantra to your rebuffal of the MST3K mantra. It's clear what she meant. Leslie's description of the way people gloss over faults until the suspension of disbelief snaps, causing a backlash fall to snarkdom, sounds remarkably accurate. Maybe we could add the bit from "...the point is" to "going clubbing" to Why We Snark.
I can only speak for myself, but I still don't mind pointing out the faults in stories and series that I love. Heck, if I didn't like something about Dominic Deegan, I don't think I'd stay here. (Although with the character derailments lately, I think the only thing left is the snark... :smallfrown:)

Spoilered for length (don't worry, it turned out not that long).
Take the Harry Potter universe, for example. I quite enjoyed the Harry Potter books, but the feasibility of the universe has much to be desired. If you removed Harry and Voldemort, imagining how the wizard world would have been if they didn't exist, then it all falls apart. There's no higher education, their school education is woefully lacking in basic skills (maths, reading etc.) and their government is a joke. And don't get me started on Quiddich. :smalltongue:

But I didn't care (that much :smalltongue:), because the characterisation was so strong. I cared about happened to the main cast, and they acted in a believable way.

With Dominic Deegan, none of the characters seem to ring true to me. It's fairly clear that Mookie is planning his arcs around a single idea that he has at the time - like having superheroes in his comic or making Siggy a demonic pawn - and then warping everything around it, characterisation be damned. As a consequence, they feel like puppets, so it's a bit hard to feel sympathetic for any of them. I could have enjoyed Dominic Deegan like a sort of anime action soap opera, a bit like Dragon Ball Z I guess. But without me caring about the characters there's nothing left. Well, save the strip slays and the snark.

I personally think if Mookie got an editor, or even just sat on his ideas for a week before acting on them, the comic would be loads better. The problem is... well, this trope here. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleueswu2fx0swd?from=Main.TheyJustDidntCare)

Of course I don't know wheter I can complain, because I'd love to make a fantasy webcomic myself but I'm a planner and a procrastinator. So I'll probably get started... never. At least Mookie has a webcomic!

[Gez]

"Wait-Wut? The Elemecha? Deus Is Machina? Unpossible!"

"Wait-Wut? Orcs are Herbivores? Unpossible!"

"Wait-Wut? Speed Metal concert in a Medieval-Fantasy setting? Unpossible!"

"Wait-Wut? Hairy Biker Dwarf-Chicks? Unpossible!"

"Wait-Wut? Supergreg? Unpossible!"

I don't remember anyone here criticizing the Elemecca. Did this happen?
Orcs as pure herbivores was a dumb idea for various reasons. The tusks being related to that was the dumbest part of it -- unless we had gotten to see orcs foraging for roots with their face in the dirt. Then it would still have been extremely dumb, but the justification would have been logical.

The rock concert was abysmally stupid, as were the nonsensical "electric guitars" which, taken a bit too literally, look like the only thing they should do is "taze" their musicians.

The dwarfs were very popular among here.

The aardvark is, of course, an abomination whose true name shall not be spoken.

[Oracle_Hunter]

* Are there more instances of glasswood (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-01-06)? A single one is pretty flimsy, even if it's representative of all the madness in the comic.
* How exactly are the Semashi unfortunate implications for Italians? I don't get it myself.
First, the Semashi thing was my fault - I no longer recall what I was thinking. :smallredface:

Totally delete that, but swap in some bits about the orcs. Their Unfortunate Implication list is a mile long :smalltongue:

As for glasswood - how many times do you think Mookie is going to depict things getting stabbed into wood? If you really want other absurdities, you can include the Great Perspective Fail of Bitka (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-01-16), the Tree Mountains of Faria (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-06-03) and their WA brethren (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-11-29), the Escher Milov (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-09-11), the Inverse Knife (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-01-05) and the Reversed Blade (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-01-07). And that's not even counting the egregious (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-11-08) art (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-10-05) errors.

In case you can't spot the last two, count the number of legs in the pictures :smallannoyed:

Part of the problem is that Mookie doesn't try to fix problems with his art - he just tries to hide them. Domochevsky had an excellent post on Mookie's hand problems, and how hard he tries to keep from drawing thumbs. He has trouble with representational art, so he never uses reference photos when drawing objects like swords, guitars, or trees.

[Trazoi]

Orcs as pure herbivores was a dumb idea for various reasons. The tusks being related to that was the dumbest part of it -- unless we had gotten to see orcs foraging for roots with their face in the dirt. Then it would still have been extremely dumb, but the justification would have been logical.
I can still live with the tusks on a herbivore, as it's possible it's a remnent from whatever the orcs evolved from. This assumes that Callanians and orcs didn't evolve from the same ancestor, or at least not one too close.

Hunter herbivores is where things start getting a little weird for me. That and the fact they never really get agriculture and villages. I'd have thought the herbivore society would be the first to settle down and build farms and houses.

[FoE]

Personally, I hate orcs for being Magical Indian stand-ins (a trope that irritates me to no end) who nevuh evuh did bwad fings to each othuh until those nasty Callanian brutes showed up and started raping the land with their devil-magics and racism.

EDIT: Also, what Travoi said.

[Morty]

I find orcs amusing, myself, because of the sheer contrast - in most fantasy fiction, orcs or their equivalent are Eeeevil, violent, murderous brutes who exist to make everyone else seem better in comparision. Whereas in Dominic Deegan, orcs are noble, spiritual savages opressed by the racist, Eeeevil Callanians, who, of course, are there to make Dominic and his freinds look better in comparision.

[averagejoe]

I see, snarking DD IS Serious Business. :smallbiggrin:

:smallconfused: Who implied it was? I don't think you know what a lot of these things mean.


I call MST3K mantra to your rebuffal of the MST3K mantra.

What? What does that even mean?


It's clear what she meant. Leslie's description of the way people gloss over faults until the suspension of disbelief snaps, causing a backlash fall to snarkdom, sounds remarkably accurate. Maybe we could add the bit from "...the point is" to "going clubbing" to Why We Snark.

It was not entirely clear to me that this was what she meant, as she did not seem to be aware of any issues besides things that people find silly or ridiculous. Her rebuff seemed based mainly on a misconception of what the criticisms of the work actually are.

Also, what Trazoi said. I loved the HP books, but they are also very snarkable. And I love snarking them. :smallbiggrin:


I can still live with the tusks on a herbivore, as it's possible it's a remnent from whatever the orcs evolved from. This assumes that Callanians and orcs didn't evolve from the same ancestor, or at least not one too close.

Ah, but Melna thought Luna had some orcish blood in her, so clearly the ancestors can't be that far off. 'Course, gorillas have pretty huge canines, so it could just be a selection for that trait. There are a lot of possibilities really.

[Gez]

I find orcs amusing, myself, because of the sheer contrast - in most fantasy fiction, orcs or their equivalent are Eeeevil, violent, murderous brutes who exist to make everyone else seem better in comparision. Whereas in Dominic Deegan, orcs are noble, spiritual savages opressed by the racist, Eeeevil Callanians, who, of course, are there to make Dominic and his freinds look better in comparision.

Now, what's really funny is that orcs are really Eeeevil, violent, murderous brutes who make everyone else seem better in comparison. Mookie go out of his way to describe them as noble savages worthy of respect and admiration, and displays them as demented psychopaths with a very low IQ.

It's the same discrepancy between Mookie's telling and his showing that gives Dominic Deegan all its snarking charm and makes it so satisfying when the titular character gets punched in the balls by an angry dwarf.

[Morty]

Now, what's really funny is that orcs are really Eeeevil, violent, murderous brutes who make everyone else seem better in comparison. Mookie go out of his way to describe them as noble savages worthy of respect and admiration, and displays them as demented psychopaths with a very low IQ.


Yeah, there's also that. I forgot to mention it.

[Johnny Blade]

I like Dominic Deegan because it's fun, it's playful and the characters and setting have a certain element of whimsy I find appealing, for everything else there's the MST3K Mantra.

Most 'I like DD for the Snark-Bait' fans claim to have at one time simply been 'I like DD' fans at one point, which brings us to a simple truism. ALL stories have flaws regardless of medium, whether it's Shakespeare, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, that Fan-Fic you just wrote, and even OotS. Granted, the number and severity of flaws varies but that's not the point..

...the point is, when you like something the flaws just don't matter. Once a fan is 'Hooked' by a particular story/setting it's easy to overlook any and all flaws in the overall work like they have their own weirdness censor. On the other hand, if you dislike something the flaws tend to stand-out and draw attention to themselves like when the sad results of that session over NaughtyNakedNuns.com are revealed at a club you forgot has blacklights.

The Snark-fans simply found a point where the MST3K Mantra was no longer sufficient, their Suspension of Disbelief had already gone to 11 but their further enjoyment required even more, that's when it all comes crashing down like the realization one should always do laundry Before going clubbing.

Mookie of course is one not to be intimidated by things like 'accepted genre conventions' when writing something he thinks is fun, so the opportunities for this are many and varied.

"Wait-Wut? The Elemecha? Deus Is Machina? Unpossible!"

"Wait-Wut? Orcs are Herbivores? Unpossible!"

"Wait-Wut? Speed Metal concert in a Medieval-Fantasy setting? Unpossible!"

"Wait-Wut? Hairy Biker Dwarf-Chicks? Unpossible!"

"Wait-Wut? Supergreg? Unpossible!"

Etc.. etc..

Works for any story/franchise with a strong Hatedom, the most virulent haters will usually be the ones who used to be fans.. the 'won't be fooled again' effect at work.
The thing is, Dominic Deegan's flaws are just ridiculous. And that does matter, unless you just read a strip and then forget about it after three seconds.
There are, as Oracle_Hunter said, such things as good and bad writing.

And when you've got certain strips (like this one (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-10-03)) or even entire arcs (the current one, Visions of Doom) that make no sense, when it seems like there's a contest going on between the characters' personalities and the magic system about who can change without warning most frequently, when the author is seemingly unable to write a plot without relying heavily on coincidence (Oracle Hunter arc) and giving his characters vital information just like that (note how many prophecies there are now that Dominic's magic doesn't work), when he also can't pace a story at all, when he actually states that nothing bad will ever happen, tells about four times as much as he shows, when characters can get away with the most vile or simply irresponsible acts just because they're certified good guys, when the whole work is obviously a mouthpiece for the author's views and all the characters are strawmen and sock puppets, when the most common form of character development is getting a new superpower, when the conveyed idea of open-mindedness is that you should love gays/women/orcs for the intrinsic specific traits that they possess, then guess what category the work in question falls into? :smallamused:

In short: Dominic Deegan sucks ass.



Also, for your interest, I never was a fan of Dominic Deegan. It's just that this thread and the sheer badness of the comic appealed to me.

[The Linker]

No one has pointed out the '20 feet of visibility on the Plains of Maltak' thing. That's the part that gets me the most. :smalltongue:

[Johnny Blade]

Oh yeah, that too. :smallbiggrin:

And I just noticed that I managed not to mention Melna falling for Stonewater. I will never really understand how people can still like the comic after that happened.

There are a lot of things that could still be said about why Dominic Deegan sucks, anyway.
Although, Mookie's apparent contempt for the laws of physics doesn't have much to do with his writing, so maybe not that many.



Well, leaving that behind, I kinda wonder whether the bit about Orcs thinking that the tribes look significantly different from each other will be forgotten as some throwaway joke or if it will actually have some significance as part of the curse, like M0rt said.
Unfortunate implications or more stupid magic, hmm...

[Mewtarthio]

Well, leaving that behind, I kinda wonder whether the bit about Orcs thinking that the tribes look significantly different from each other will be forgotten as some throwaway joke or if it will actually have some significance as part of the curse, like M0rt said.
Unfortunate implications or more stupid magic, hmm...

And in the beginning there was but one being, and it was called Man. Beautiful and androgynous it was, containing within it the purest essence of humanity. Alas, Man was corrupted, and eventually it split apart into a hundred thousand lesser men. Yet before it shattered, Man spoke a prophecy that all men carry in their hearts, of a Great Dance in which all men would unite once again into Man, and live forever in perfect harmony.

It *would* explain why he hates racists so much.

[Epsilon]

Now that I think about it, how long ago did the clans separate? Was there really enough time for the clans to develop into different “races” of orcs? If I recall Karnak seemed to be alive around the time they split up so it couldn’t have been more than one or two generations (in the exact same terrain no less).

Though looking at the flashback of the great splitting, it seems they broke up into groups based on hair style and clothing, so maybe that’s what Stonewater sees.

[Humbug]

Now that I think about it, how long ago did the clans separate? Was there really enough time for the clans to develop into different “races” of orcs? If I recall Karnak seemed to be alive around the time they split up so it couldn’t have been more than one or two generations (in the exact same terrain no less).

Though looking at the flashback of the great splitting, it seems they broke up into groups based on hair style and clothing, so maybe that’s what Stonewater sees.
Someone mentioned it was about 40 years ago, give or take. Miranda and Donovan were about around the same age as Karnak I think, and this was before they married and had the Deegan brothers.

And no, Stonewater was specifically referring at their faces, not at the way they dress. :smalltongue:

[FoE]

I can't take the terrible characterization. That's my biggest complaint. Take Luna, for example. Luna isn't a trainwreck because she was emotionally abused by her family — it's all about the tusks, baby. And that whole emotional damage thing? Turns out that will be cleared up right quick by the love of Dominic Deegan.

Oh, and those tusks aren't really bad, they're actually the mark of the Choooooooooosen One!

I can't stand how everyone either becomes Dominic's fanboy or his hated enemy because they're morally wrong and racist and stuff. I hate the arbitrary selection of the Deeganfriends, and I can't stand the constant soapboxing. Hell, I would call myself a liberal, and I can't stand Mookie's constant preaching to the choir.

"What? Racism is BAD? Thank you, Dominic Deegan, for showing me the error of my ways! I'll go hang up my white hood and burn my copy of Mein Kampf right away!"

[averagejoe]

New comic. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-05-04)

Oh, Spark, you and your wacky antics. They are completely wacky. These are unambiguously jokes. Luckily we now have an explaination for the "simplest" way to tell the clans apart. Y'know, something we already figured out.

[Humbug]

Oh My God. Mookie thinks we're so stupid he has to EXPLAIN the differences between the clans instead of just SHOWING us, but wait, he already has shown us the differences between the orc clans. The actual problem was that orcs WITHIN the same clan are carbon copies of each other! :smallfurious:

[Ganurath]

New comic. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-05-04)

Oh, Spark, you and your wacky antics. They are completely wacky. These are unambiguously jokes. Luckily we now have an explaination for the "simplest" way to tell the clans apart. Y'know, something we already figured out.More importantly, the differences in feature can easily be achieved through artificial behavior rather than being inherited. Obviously, the clans split up due to differences in hairstyle being mistaken for ethnic divides because, as it turns out, the Callanians were right about the orcs. That's why a Callanian needs to clear up the confusion and reunite the clans.

[spectralphoenix]

In all fairness, Spark's met what, four or five orcs, all from different clans? And the raiders, who don't appear to follow the hair convention. The average Callanian doesn't even know about the clans at all, why is Stonewater expecting Spark to know about the hair dress code?

[Oracle_Hunter]

Oh My God. Mookie thinks we're so stupid he has to EXPLAIN the differences between the clans instead of just SHOWING us, but wait, he already has shown us the differences between the orc clans. The actual problem was that orcs WITHIN the same clan are carbon copies of each other! :smallfurious:
Oh hey, Mookie - your hair (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-05-04) is not your face. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-05-01)

I'm beginning to wonder if Mookie really is always back-peddling after he posts some dialogue with Unfortunate Implications. It is very possible that the man lacks sufficient ability with the English language to make simple declarative statements that are intelligible by other people.

I mean, "my brother... in law." (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-02-27) Really?

This would also explain why Mookie is constantly repeating himself - he knows that people can't understand what he means, so he thinks if he says the same thing often and loudly enough, people will get what he's trying to say.

Poor guy :smallfrown:

[averagejoe]

In all fairness, Spark's met what, four or five orcs, all from different clans? And the raiders, who don't appear to follow the hair convention. The average Callanian doesn't even know about the clans at all, why is Stonewater expecting Spark to know about the hair dress code?

Yes, but the dialogue should be for the benefit of the readers (who are real) not the characters (who are not). The excuse makes sense, but for the purposes of the readers, it is completely redundant. It was an unnecessary conversation for anyone who has been paying the slightest bit of attention.

[Fawkes]

The more I learn about the orcs, the more I sympathize with the Damaskes.

I'd also like to point out that Stonewater's dad (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2006-01-17) is clearly not an Alheera.

[Kyeudo]

Oddly, this was sligtly enlightening, if a bit forced. I didn't actually pay attention to orcish hairstyles. I just differentiated by which type of violence/stupidity they were currently displaying. Doma hit things, Shintula are outraged, Bitka are religious zealots, the Alheera are clueless, and the Rhazgala are flighty. I didn't realize there was also only one hairstyle per clan in addition to only one personality.

Maybe this is why Mohorc feels so bad. He changed his hairstyle, thereby renouncing his clan.

[Johnny Blade]

And no, Stonewater was specifically referring at their faces, not at the way they dress. :smalltongue:
:biggrin:


I'm beginning to wonder if Mookie really is always back-peddling after he posts some dialogue with Unfortunate Implications.
Clearly, it was a cliffhanger. Actually the most exciting one to date, I'd say.




...


Okay, that's really all I have to say right now. The total uselessness of this strip has a strangely numbing effect on me, really.

I mean, what was he thinking? The thing about the hair was already fairly obvious, and even if it had to be explained, it could have been done in one panel. And that punchline is just forced and clumsy.
And dumb.
This comic is dumb.
Yeah.

[spectralphoenix]

Yes, but the dialogue should be for the benefit of the readers (who are real) not the characters (who are not). The excuse makes sense, but for the purposes of the readers, it is completely redundant. It was an unnecessary conversation for anyone who has been paying the slightest bit of attention.

I don't have a problem with Stonewater explaining the hair code, just with the gratuitous racism Take That about Spark not knowing how to tell them apart in the first place.

Admittedly, it probably would have worked better if Dominic had explained all this when they went into Maltak (so the readers could say "Hey, he's clan X" when new characters get introduced,) but I think it's better late than never.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I don't have a problem with Stonewater explaining the hair code, just with the gratuitous racism Take That about Spark not knowing how to tell them apart in the first place.

Admittedly, it probably would have worked better if Dominic had explained all this when they went into Maltak (so the readers could say "Hey, he's clan X" when new characters get introduced,) but I think it's better late than never.
It wasn't a racism Take That - it was an awkward "lampshade" of Mookie's bad art followed up by a lead-in to more Expo-speak.

And, as Mechafox pointed out, this "distinctive" hairstyle thing is totally bogus - just like the Kelsheen being the "original" tribe. Mookie isn't just Retconning things, he's Retconning them really badly. Like "pounding on the walls of reality" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superboy-Prime#Altering_reality) badly.

[Johnny Blade]

Admittedly, it probably would have worked better if Dominic had explained all this when they went into Maltak (so the readers could say "Hey, he's clan X" when new characters get introduced,) but I think it's better late than never.
It would have worked best if he hadn't done it at all.

Or if today's comic would have went like that:

First panel:
As is.

Second panel:
Stonewater: "Each clan has a distinctive hairstyle. I can tell Mohawk's a Rhazgala because of his dye job."

Third panel and fourth panel:
Either panel 6 and 7 of today's, or those two as one and one with a joke of sorts - just not the one Mookie used, I mean, really now...

Rest:
Something different. Maybe some action, even.


On another note, I just realized that, ever since Taran scattered Team Deegan (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-03-20), the comic has been an endless succession of exposition. Maybe that's the "meaning of hopelessness and despair" he was speaking of?

[Kizor]

First, the Semashi thing was my fault - I no longer recall what I was thinking. :smallredface:

Totally delete that, but swap in some bits about the orcs. Their Unfortunate Implication list is a mile long :smalltongue:

Nope.

You do that, you're the expert as well as the better writer between the two of us. Thanks for the reply.

[ichini_sanshigo]

Two things:

1. It's not actually a bad thing for people of one race to have trouble distinguishing between members of another race. It's actually pretty natural, as they lack the exposure to those people to differentiate features. Certain generic features jump out, (round eyes and big noses for westerners, "slanty eyes" for Asians, etc) and more subtle expressions are disregarded. I'm willing to be Stonewater has problems telling Callanians apart. mean, they all have the same white skins and pointy noses, amirite?

2. Pointing out differences in hair still doesn't address the apparent sameness of facial features.

Guh.

[Trazoi]

Re: Stonewater's dad.: Obviously the hairstyle thing is a recent tradition, but a sacred tradition nonetheless.

I'm waiting for the moment when Spark finally twigs to him being the lone carnivore in an encampment of total vegans.

[Trazoi]

I'm willing to be Stonewater has problems telling Callanians apart. mean, they all have the same white skins and pointy noses, amirite?
So the reason we all keep complaining that everyone has metaphorically (or literally in the case of Strip Slays) Stunt's head... is that we're not Callanian?

That's deep.

[Gez]

"You can't tell the obvious biological divergence between our two species? Well, I'll spell it out loud. We wear bowler hats, they wear fedoras."

[Domochevsky]

Wha... the art.

The. Art.

WHAT. :smallmad:


Today's Beef:

http://nudecreator.org/Domochevsky/Mookster_12.png


Unpossible. :smallannoyed:
(Not only does it look ...questionable, it's also very uninspiring. No comment about the Plain of Hats.)


And he doesn't care about the rules anymore!

[colonelslime]

Whoa, alot of posting over the weekend:smalleek:

On the whole "snark\hater" thing. I am not a DD hater, though my enjoyment of this little opus as anything other than parody has long ceased. The idea that you can't enjoy something and still snark it is wrong. I'm a fan of Stargate SG-1, but that doesn't prevent me from poitning out all the little inconsistencies and plot problems within a given episode (usually with an audible sigh of resignation from others in the room). Harry Potter (until the 7th book:smallyuk:) is also, as already noted, a good example.

Also, much of the defense of Dominic Deegan focuses only on our snark of the tiny minutea, not our legitimate criticism of the story itself. Glasswood, for example, is something that I would let pass, or offhandly comment upon, in a good story, but Dominci Deegan, with its myriad literary sins, is only enjoyed for snark (in this community, at least). Why shouldn't we have fun with this comic in the only way it allows us to?

To wit:
I'm pretty sure that the only orcs we have ever seen with facial hair are Stonewater and the Shintula chief. Obviously, Stonewater just started a new fashion trend, and is trying to pass it off as a tradition so it will take.

[colonelslime]

(Double posts)

[Morty]

Ah, exposition, how do we love thee.
Also, I didn't see many comments on Grench being AWOL. It might be just another fine piece of gender equality on Mookie's part - by having Grench play the ineffectual woman who needs rescuing - but I'm having this creeping feeling that Grench might be dead so that Melna can hook up with Stonewater...

[The Linker]

Last panel. Change a few expressions, and we've got a good amount of support for a Sparkwater pairing... :smallbiggrin:

"I won't bite.... hard." :smallamused:

Stonespark? Sparkstone? Starkwater?

[Gez]

Stonespark? Sparkstone? Starkwater?

Spatter. Or Stork.

[Johnny Blade]

...so that Melna can hook up with Stonewater...
Yeesssss...:smallbiggrin:

I don't think it will happen, but that would be a truly staggering failure.
The thought alone is glorious.

[averagejoe]

One thing: I don't think this was a retcon. I think Stonewater was saying, "Oh, you can't tell our faces apart. Okay, here's an easier way to tell the clans apart." This doesn't come through clearly, but I don't think he's backpedaling.

[Morty]

Or Stork.

What has the poor bird ever done to you?


I don't think it will happen, but that would be a truly staggering failure.
The thought alone is glorious.

Mookie does seem to be reluctant to break up pairings unless it corresponds with his mood at the time, true. He's also reluctant to have anything bad happen to people above 4th caste. So yeah, while it'd be a failure of truly magnificent proportions, it's unlikely.

[Winterwind]

It's been said a dozen times by now, but I think it's worthy of repetition, since it keeps coming up all the time whenever somebody comes around to defend Dominic Deegan... all those minor unlikely things, like herbivorous Orcs or a rock concert, have nothing whatsoever to do with our main criticisms. If difficulty with keeping up suspension of disbelief was the only one of the comic's problems, it would be a masterpiece in comparison to what it is now.

Moral dissonance, supposedly smart and good characters behaving like idiots and jerks, Mary Sues, repetitive narration, telling-not-showing, deus ex machina solutions to problems, inconsistency of mood, poor pacing, unfortunate implications, complete breakdowns of logic, lack of suspense because nobody can ever be hurt... those are the main problems we have with the comic, not some things being somewhat unbelievable.



Today's strip: If I should ever need proof that Mookie thinks his audience is incapable of figuring out anything on their own and needs every detail, no matter how obvious, to be spelled out, this is the strip I shall be linking to. :smallannoyed:

[AgentPaper]

Today's strip: If I should ever need proof that Mookie thinks his audience is incapable of figuring out anything on their own and needs every detail, no matter how obvious, to be spelled out, this is the strip I shall be linking to. :smallannoyed:

Actually, I don't think many people would figure out the patterns in hair and such, or at least not all of them, without this explanation.

Of course, the reason for that is because Mookie has shown us so very, VERY few orcs, and never in a way where it's clear what clan they're from. The comic being black-and-white doesn't help either, of course.

This strip is also a classic case of tell, not show. A much better way to handle this would be to show some big meeting of all the tribes, with representatives from each. Something like 3-4 orcs of each clan gathered in a circle or what-not, and then have someone introduce each clan. (perhaps to the protagonists) Bam, now your audience has an easy reference to see any major differences in dress and hairstyle, as well as physical differences, if there are any. Ideally, this would have come early on, as well, so that when other orcs show up later, they know what clan they're from, instead of them having to tell the audience. (or the audience just not knowing)

Hmm, I should write for Mookie. Now we just need to find someone to do the art. :smallamused:

[Gez]

I actually have found one positive thing to say about today's strip. It told us that Grench's hair color wasn't natural.

[Fangly]

To travel that path, is to walk the road to madness and damnation.

...although a Mary Sue Classic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySueClassic) being inserted into DD would be deliciously ironic.

No! Must... not... inspire... fanfics :smalleek:


I ACCEPT YOUR CHALLENGE.





It's not like I have any real writing assignments due. Yeah. Or like I have a serious commitment problem when it comes to anything on the internet. Or my time is seriously limited. This is the perfect thing to do right now. Yeah.

[Winterwind]

This strip is also a classic case of tell, not show. A much better way to handle this would be to show some big meeting of all the tribes, with representatives from each. Something like 3-4 orcs of each clan gathered in a circle or what-not, and then have someone introduce each clan. (perhaps to the protagonists) Bam, now your audience has an easy reference to see any major differences in dress and hairstyle, as well as physical differences, if there are any. Ideally, this would have come early on, as well, so that when other orcs show up later, they know what clan they're from, instead of them having to tell the audience. (or the audience just not knowing)Personally, I thought this strip (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-04-01) already fulfilled this purpose. I thought it made the very differences outlined in today's strip abundantly clear.

The only thing I had been wondering about until today's strip was whether the differences between the Orcs' hairstyles denoted differences between clans or functions (i.e., whether all the Shintula we saw so far had those facial tattoos, all Bikta this ponytail, etc., because they were Shintula/Bikta/whatever respectively, or because they were Nakta sorcerers/monks/whatever respectively). Today's strip answered that question... but it could have been answered in one panel, rather than one strip.

[AgentPaper]

On a related note, where do they get all that dye? At least 2 cultures dye their hair regularly, and one of them is known to like big hair styles, and big hair means lots of dye. Big hair dyed bright pink needs even more dye, and it's implied that stuff like that isn't uncommon.

They also seem to have a lot of cloth, for wearing as well as for their tepees, (which by the way are completely absurd) not to mention rugs and the like, which means they must be growing a respectable amount of flax or similar. Since the orcs are herbivores, that means that all of their food comes from farming.

So, how damn good of farmers do they have to be to farm ALL of that? They don't seem to have much in the way of specialized tools, and there's no way they have irrigation in the middle of what appears to be a near-desert. (and has turned into such fairly often) Speaking of which, does it ever rain in Maltak? It must for all those plants to survive, but I suppose it's technically possible that it just hasn't rained while we've seen it. (or I forgot)

The land being poisoned and everyone suddenly hating each other just makes things worse, but there's no proof that orcs were starving even before the big storm thingy.

Edit: @Winterwind
Yeah, I suppose you could see it like that, but I just always thought all the orcs liked dressing differently. There was no reason to thing that the different styles meant anything.

[Domochevsky]

...
Hmm, I should write for Mookie. Now we just need to find someone to do the art. :smallamused:

I'm in, in any case. Scribbling over Mookie's art makes for good practice so far. :smallamused:

[Winterwind]

Edit: @Winterwind
Yeah, I suppose you could see it like that, but I just always thought all the orcs liked dressing differently. There was no reason to thing that the different styles meant anything.You mean aside from the fact that all Orcs from one clan invariably shared the same style? I dunno, that's a pretty damn good reason to think it might mean something to me. :smalltongue:

More seriously, well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree upon this. I found it painfully obvious, anyway. Mookie might as well point out next that the noses of Orcs and Callanians look different, oh yeah, and teeth size differentiates them too.

(interesting Stonewater limited it to hair, by the way, as there are differences in clothing as well)

[Fawkes]

I don't know about you guys, but I never would have figured out from the examples given that all members of each clan have the same exact hairstyle, mainly because that's stupid.

[RedScholarGypsy]

The Shintula, Doma, and Bikta were easy enough to figure out. Mookie probably shouldn't rely on hair color in a mostly black and white comic, however, and Stonewater is the only bearded orc I remember seeing, so...yeah.

Am I the only one who sees Spark tweaking his nipples in the last panel? Am I just a sick pervert or should I go into slaying?

Also, Domochevsky, can you please change your icon? Every time I look at your posts now I feel like I'm about to be shoot in the face. :smalleek: Though I can live with it so long as you don't actually do so. :smallamused:

[Deus_e_Machina]

Spatter. Or Stork.

... that is NOT where babies come from.

[Oracle_Hunter]

One thing: I don't think this was a retcon. I think Stonewater was saying, "Oh, you can't tell our faces apart. Okay, here's an easier way to tell the clans apart." This doesn't come through clearly, but I don't think he's backpedaling.
Well... if that's true, then the orcs are still incredible racists who split up their clans among morphological lines. And that's terrible.

[Castel]

Say, how many orcs of SalvatoreStonewater's tribe have we seen? 2, tops?

And how many from Mohorcss? Again, 2?

Melna's? Three or 4?

I'll keep my comments about the (dumb) way to differentiate people from the same tribe until I at least see the tribe.

[Johnny Blade]

I don't know about you guys, but I never would have figured out from the examples given that all members of each clan have the same exact hairstyle, mainly because that's stupid.
I agree.

Really now, it was obvious as far as Bikta, Shintula and Doma are concerned. That made some sense, too. The Bikta are one huge sect, the Shintula are mystics, the Doma...well, at least for the warriors of a clan known for its military tradition, having a distinctive, ornate hairstyle is not unthinkable.

Regarding the Alheera and Rhazgala, however, this just came out of the blue. And it makes no sense. Judging by their one-adjective characterization, at least.
Oh, and as far as the former are concerned, it's also wrong, as has been pointed out.
And the Rhazgala dye job thing looks like an ass pull to me, although there's of course hardly a way to prove that.


... that is NOT where babies come from.
Luckily.

[Wraith]

There is one thing that I like about today's comic - Mookie has formally established which people in his upcoming comics are going to be in the Redshirt Army (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedshirtArmy) and which are going to be the Evil Minions (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilMinions). Heck, he's even uniformly color-coded them for out convenience (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ColourCodedForYourConvenience?from=Main.ColorCoded ForYourConvenience); literally in most cases.

He might as well have had Stonewater go: "See that guy over there? He's Fifth Caste. The one stood next to him is also Fifth Caste, but the one behind them is Fourth Caste..."

In fact, I'm rereading the strip as I type. If you change the words "Alsheera", "Bikta", "Doma", "Shintula" and "Rhazgala" with the words "Fifth Caste" and "Fourth Caste", it still makes perfect sense...

If not, more.

[Jahkaivah]

I actually have found one positive thing to say about today's strip. It told us that Grench's hair color wasn't natural.

Until the inevitable strip where for some reason we see a new born Grench with pink hair. :smalltongue:



Spoilered for length (don't worry, it turned out not that long).
Take the Harry Potter universe, for example. I quite enjoyed the Harry Potter books, but the feasibility of the universe has much to be desired. If you removed Harry and Voldemort, imagining how the wizard world would have been if they didn't exist, then it all falls apart. There's no higher education, their school education is woefully lacking in basic skills (maths, reading etc.) and their government is a joke. And don't get me started on Quiddich. :smalltongue:



Off topic:

While we are at it, let's not forget that Wizard's are selfish *******s. Seriously our world has so many issues at the moment,what with the economy going to pot, constant terror threats and major diseases round every corner. Meanwhile the people who have easy solutions to all our problems are off ******* about on broomsticks :smallamused:

[canterrain]

Well... if that's true, then the orcs are still incredible racists who split up their clans among morphological lines. And that's terrible.

Eh. The clans are what? 40 years oldish by the best guess on the forum? It's conceivable to think that in that time each clan has developed fashion that distinguishes them if they've kept as separated as what information we have suggests.

The only hard part to swallow perhaps is that each orc clan developed one particular fashion and it stayed for 40 years (or however many years were left after the fashion came to be). At least in this world, fashions come and go in mere decades...

Honestly though, I hadn't noticed the difference in hairstyles till now cause I never looked that closely at all the orcs that we've actually seen. And I took it as a, "if you can't tell us apart by our faces, then well... here's the -easiest- way to tell us apart."

[Trazoi]

Ah, exposition, how do we love thee.
Also, I didn't see many comments on Grench being AWOL. It might be just another fine piece of gender equality on Mookie's part - by having Grench play the ineffectual woman who needs rescuing - but I'm having this creeping feeling that Grench might be dead so that Melna can hook up with Stonewater...
I've been dreading that possibility since this arc began and Grench was nowhere in sight. It's likely enough to be scary.

It's a pity, because I like Grench, if only for her happy dance when Siggy and Siggy Sr. croaked.


Off topic:

While we are at it, let's not forget that Wizard's are selfish *******s. Seriously our world has so many issues at the moment,what with the economy going to pot, constant terror threats and major diseases round every corner. Meanwhile the people who have easy solutions to all our problems are off ******* about on broomsticks :smallamused:
More off topic
Oh yes! Wizards are total jerks. They've got the ability to cure any non-magical illness or disfigurement, but it's not for us dirty Muggles. I don't really see what the "good" wizards were so against the Death Eaters. They're just overly expressing what every wizard is secretly thinking. :smallwink:

[AgentPaper]

The way I see it, the wizards don't understand muggles well enough to even know they have such serious problems that could be fixed that easily. They could well think that we're getting along well enough on our own, and that getting wizards mixed up with muggles would just make things worse for everyone. And that could well be true, seeing as what happened with the salem witch trials and all.

It's still highly implausible, but it's close enough for MST3K mantra to set in, for me at least.

I'd also like to point out that Mookie totally went for the "You're racist if you can't tell between us" angle, like I said he would/had. :smallamused:

Because of course someone who had grown up never seeing an orc should be able to tell the difference between two of them, and being a cat is a poor excuse. It's not like it takes most of our young lives to learn to read the tiny facial differences between people of our own race, and learning to do the same with a different race takes just as long, or something. And it's not like that would be an even LARGER barrier if the others were of a completely different species, am I right? :smallannoyed:

Jeez, I bet those damn callanians think all chimpanzees look the same too. Racist bastards. :smallsigh:

[Oracle_Hunter]

Eh. The clans are what? 40 years oldish by the best guess on the forum? It's conceivable to think that in that time each clan has developed fashion that distinguishes them if they've kept as separated as what information we have suggests.
No, no, you misunderstand me.

Stonewater implies that all of the tribes have distinct facial features. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-05-01) However, originally all orcs were member of a single tribe, the Kelsheen. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-03-31) And, for some reason, these orcs decided to split up into five clans.

How can you take one group of mixed people, and split them into five groups while having each member of a group share the same physical characteristics (morphology)? Only if that is the criteria you used for dividing into clans.

This sort of behavior is identical to the real-world phenomenon of racial segregation. And the people who advocate such segregation are typically considered racist. Ergo, the orcs must have been hugely racist to divide up their unified state into racially segregated clans.

Unfortunate Implications, QED.

Now, if Mookie just realized this fact, he may have decided to backpedal and change "face" to "hairstyle" - which is far more reasonable. Clans and tribes frequently develop markings or styles of dress to differentiate themselves from other clans. Otherwise... orcs = biggest racists in Dominion.

EDIT:

And, in case someone mentions it, in order for a uniform species of creatures to develop distinct morphological features after being separated takes hundreds, if not thousands, of years. It takes longer when the isolated groups do not suffer variant natural selection pressures - which is the case in the uniform plains of Maltak. The only way to create this kind of morphological differences standard within a given population is through Genetic Drift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_drift) - a far more random process than natural selection.

[Mr. Scaly]

Heck, most wizards don't have the slightest clue about muggle life. Memory Altering charms or not, it's unbelievable that they haven't been found out yet.

I've actually enjoyed the last couple pages. I don't hate exposition, and learning little tidbits about different races is interesting. I didn't think the styles was particularly obvious aside from the Bikta and Shintula myself, and I've missed some 'intelligent' goofiness.*

As for castes, meh. If it happens it happens, I don't really care where they end up now.


*the difference between Spark and Luna.

[Penquin47]

Call me an infernal optimist.

Stonewater was just having a laugh at Spark before explaining the hair thing, not really expecting Spark to be able to tell the difference in the Orcs' faces.

Out of character for Stonewater, perhaps, but isn't that what Mookie does best?

[AgentPaper]

Oh, and I'd like to point out that while Mookie has accidentally implied that the Orcs are bigger races than he says the Callanians are, the Callanians themselves aren't even the slightest bit racist. Why? Because Orcs are another species, not another race of human, such as the Semash. It may end up being something equally bad, but it's not racism. The fact that the prejudice may very well be completely deserved by most, if not all, Orcs makes the irony even better.

It's like if a chiwawa told you to 'f off and stop being racist for calling him small, and then continued that sentence by insulting poodles. :smallamused:

[Yellow]

Chihuahua.

[Sucrose]

EDIT:

And, in case someone mentions it, in order for a uniform species of creatures to develop distinct morphological features after being separated takes hundreds, if not thousands, of years. It takes longer when the isolated groups do not suffer variant natural selection pressures - which is the case in the uniform plains of Maltak. The only way to create this kind of morphological differences standard within a given population is through Genetic Drift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_drift) - a far more random process than natural selection.

Strictly speaking, this isn't the case for intelligent, tool-using hominids. I realize that the adjectives "intelligent" and "tool-using" are a bit of a stretch for Mookie's orcs, but bear with me.

Hominids are capable of dramatically changing their appearance for fashion. Take, for example, the Padaung tribe from Burma, and their attitude toward necks, or the foot-binding fetish that continued in Europe until the twentieth century. Is it thus inconceivable that the orcs engage in somewhat subtle facial mutilation, which is immediately evident to them, but not so much to outsiders? Perhaps most Callanians don't bother to figure out the differences because such traditions disgust them, and they prefer not to think about them.

In fact, the orcs may have split up precisely because of this: there were schisms in their society regarding the true nature of beauty, and so they split up according to what sort of mutilation they prefer. Thus, "Razghala faces" would naturally be different from "Doma faces" and so on. Stonewater disagrees with his parents regarding the nature of beauty, which is why he's into Grench.

If my theory makes little sense, I apologize; though a long-time lurker of this thread, I'm relatively inexperienced at snark.

[Winterwind]

Actually, it makes perfect sense (to me, anyway). :smallsmile:
The problem is, it is sufficiently unusual and requires enough thinking things through that I wouldn't put it past writers whom I actually respect to not come up with it. Mookie? I won't believe he could come up with something like that until I see it. :smallwink:

[AgentPaper]

Am I the only one who's noticed how little sense tepees make now that orcs are herbivores? Or is this just something people have accepted as part of the glaring plot holes created by that little farce? :smallsigh:

[Oracle_Hunter]

Hominids are capable of dramatically changing their appearance for fashion. Take, for example, the Padaung tribe from Burma, and their attitude toward necks, or the foot-binding fetish that continued in Europe until the twentieth century. Is it thus inconceivable that the orcs engage in somewhat subtle facial mutilation, which is immediately evident to them, but not so much to outsiders? Perhaps most Callanians don't bother to figure out the differences because such traditions disgust them, and they prefer not to think about them.

In fact, the orcs may have split up precisely because of this: there were schisms in their society regarding the true nature of beauty, and so they split up according to what sort of mutilation they prefer. Thus, "Razghala faces" would naturally be different from "Doma faces" and so on. Stonewater disagrees with his parents regarding the nature of beauty, which is why he's into Grench.
This would make good sense if there were any evidence that orcs behaved in such a fashion. First of all, the differences are supposed to be on the faces of the orcs - which limits the amount of mutilation that can be done. Secondly, most orc "mutilation" (tattoos, for example) are, in fact, depicted - and nothing of the sort is on either Stonewater or Mohorc's face. Admittedly a sufficiently subtle alteration could be present, but I, for one, can't conceive of what that would be.

That said - bravo on coming up with a plausible answer that didn't require orcs to be hugely racist. I'm not sure I can see the proto-orcs sundering their unified nation because of different standards of beauty (particularly since it is implied there were no sub-clans in the Kelsheen), but I suppose a story for that could be made.

Oh, and welcome in from the shadows! We always like to see new faces around here :smalltongue:

[Trazoi]

Am I the only one who's noticed how little sense tepees make now that orcs are herbivores? Or is this just something people have accepted as part of the glaring plot holes created by that little farce? :smallsigh:
I'm pretty sure I expressed my puzzlement over those tepees the first time we saw the Bikta settlement (the one with all the killing). I've got no clue as to what they're made of. At the time I assumed Maltak has some form of flax and orcs were secretly great weavers, but now I've seen more of their culture I wouldn't be surprised that they're made of hide. After all, being herbivores hasn't stopped their great love of killing anything that moves*, and they've got to do something with the corpses.

(*Or rather, killing anything that doesn't move. Orcs seem to have difficulty hitting targets that don't stand stock still. It's probably from learning the arts of combat from fighting plants.)

[Jahkaivah]

The way I see it, the wizards don't understand muggles well enough to even know they have such serious problems that could be fixed that easily. They could well think that we're getting along well enough on our own, and that getting wizards mixed up with muggles would just make things worse for everyone. And that could well be true, seeing as what happened with the salem witch trials and all.

It's still highly implausible, but it's close enough for MST3K mantra to set in, for me at least.


Given the number of Muggle-born and half-blood wizards, not to mention the fact that learning more about muggles is a subject studied at hogwarts (not a very popular one I imagine) I find it hard to believe that the entire wizarding world remains in total ignorance.

I think the most plausible way of looking at it is to assume that the issues of the real world simply do not exist in harry potter's muggle world.

To be fair, this is a problem a lot of fictions which set scifi and fantasy conventions in the real world suffer from, and most of them tend to present real life almost in the way a child sees it growing up: dull, but with only minor issues to contend with.

Still calls for a Watchmen-esque reality check through.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I'm pretty sure I expressed my puzzlement over those tepees the first time we saw the Bikta settlement (the one with all the killing). I've got no clue as to what they're made of. At the time I assumed Maltak has some form of flax and orcs were secretly great weavers, but now I've seen more of their culture I wouldn't be surprised that they're made of hide. After all, being herbivores hasn't stopped their great love of killing anything that moves*, and they've got to do something with the corpses.
Silly Trazoi, those tepees are made out of plant hides! Those big ferocious Piranha Plants (which have sadly been hunted to extinction) had very thick leaves and other planty-parts; orcs have learned how to treat those planty-parts to make a durable, yet malleable, hide-like material.

I'm calling it Phide, and it solves all problems involving orcish clothing, construction, or anything else that looks like it belongs in a Magical Native American (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalNativeAmerican) Village. :smalltongue:

[AgentPaper]

I'm pretty sure I expressed my puzzlement over those tepees the first time we saw the Bikta settlement (the one with all the killing). I've got no clue as to what they're made of. At the time I assumed Maltak has some form of flax and orcs were secretly great weavers, but now I've seen more of their culture I wouldn't be surprised that they're made of hide. After all, being herbivores hasn't stopped their great love of killing anything that moves*, and they've got to do something with the corpses.

(*Or rather, killing anything that doesn't move. Orcs seem to have difficulty hitting targets that don't stand stock still. It's probably from learning the arts of combat from fighting plants.)

But that doesn't even begin to hit on the inconsistencies!

Yes, it is plausible that they use animal hide or grow flax or some similar crop, though there's no evidence that there even are any animals in the Plains of Maltak. However, remember where tepees came from: native americans, traditionally. And why did they use tepees? Because they were essentially pre-tool tents, which they could pack up, stick on a horse, and continue on to their next camp. And why did they need to move around so much? To follow the herd they were hunting. The orcs, on the other hand, subsist entirely through farming. And what do cultures who farm do? Build permanent settlements.

So why have the orcs, as a culture, decided to use tepees, which they have no reason to even invent in the first place, when instead they could be doing something much more reliable and easier to make, such as earthen homes? There's no benefits, and just getting the materials they need to make the damn things should be worth a king's ransom for them, since they would have to set aside valuable farmland to grow a crop that isn't food, in a society where no farms means no food period. Not to mention there are no trees in Maltak that we've seen, so they're either exceedingly rare or the orcs have been buying them from some other land and lugging huge piles of timber through their land regularly. Tepees aren't exactly known for their sturdiness either, so to keep them in a decent condition, you'll need a regular supply of cloth and wood to replace broken supports and torn walls.

[Trazoi]

Silly Trazoi, those tepees are made out of plant hides! Those big ferocious Piranha Plants (which have sadly been hunted to extinction) had very thick leaves and other planty-parts; orcs have learned how to treat those planty-parts to make a durable, yet malleable, hide-like material.
So, uh, which part of Petey Pirahna (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-03-31) is the "hide"? He doesn't look fat enough to have much "skin" on him. :smallconfused:

(...really, I'm still wondering why the orcs don't live in mud or grass huts and have farms. What do they need to be mobile for? Do Venus flytraps migrate?)

Edit: Ah, I see my concerns have been asked while I was chasing the link. :smallbiggrin:

[Oracle_Hunter]

So, uh, which part of Petey Pirahna (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-03-31) is the "hide"? He doesn't look fat enough to have much "skin" on him. :smallconfused:
It's all underground - those roots get really thick when you go down far enough.

But I will address the mobility issue thusly - have we actually ever seen orc farms? Look at that link - those orcs are just picking up grass that is around their village. Orc do not have agriculture.

Why do they have to move? Because they are grazing beasts - they move about like the buffalo to always have good forage available.

[Trazoi]

Why do they have to move? Because they are grazing beasts - they move about like the buffalo to always have good forage available.
So it's not exactly speciesist to call to call Maltak orcs "stupid" then? :smallconfused:

(Seriously, I've never, ever understood why orcs are shown to be intelligent - one is even a leading researcher - but they don't have agriculture. It does not make sense. This comic makes no sense.)

[Humbug]

So where are these veggies that look like cutting boards? Or did Mookie forget about them? He probably doesn't know what they look like, that's why we have orcs eating grass instead.

[Fangly]

So it's not exactly speciesist to call to call Maltak orcs "stupid" then? :smallconfused:

(Seriously, I've never, ever understood why orcs are shown to be intelligent - one is even a leading researcher - but they don't have agriculture. It does not make sense. This comic makes no sense.)


All ways of life are valid. Cultural differences must always be respected, no matter how stupid. Particularly when Darwinism doesn't seem to exist.

[Oracle_Hunter]

So where are these veggies that look like cutting boards? Or did Mookie forget about them? He probably doesn't know what they look like, that's why we have orcs eating grass instead.
Those are actually the internal organs of Piranha Plants - they are an Orcish delicacy; that's why they bother hunting them.

Or, if you'd like me to be more specific, they are the roots of the Piranha Plants :smallcool:

[RedScholarGypsy]

So it's not exactly speciesist to call to call Maltak orcs "stupid" then? :smallconfused:

(Seriously, I've never, ever understood why orcs are shown to be intelligent - one is even a leading researcher - but they don't have agriculture. It does not make sense. This comic makes no sense.)

Well, what type of agriculture do you mean Trazoi? There is a long range between true hunter-gatherer and total agriculture, and a not-inconsiderable-amount of it doesn't require a culture to give up a nomadic lifestyle. Also many studies have shown that by increasing dependence on agriculture, the work require to maintain a certain level of quality of life increases. Of course there are many benefits, such as food security, that come with agriculture, and many different peoples were attempting various styles of agriculture before they were assimilated by the culture wave that originated in the fertile cresent. These are just a few reasons why the orcs may not have kansas-style farmlands. Also, please realize that this is based on cursory research, so it is rather over-simplified. But I bet it's more research than Mookie did.

[Trazoi]

Well, what type of agriculture do you mean Trazoi? There is a long range between true hunter-gatherer and total agriculture, and a not-inconsiderable-amount of it doesn't require a culture to give up a nomadic lifestyle. Also many studies have shown that by increasing dependence on agriculture, the work require to maintain a certain level of quality of life increases. Of course there are many benefits, such as food security, that come with agriculture, and many different peoples were attempting various styles of agriculture before they were assimilated by the culture wave that originated in the fertile cresent. These are just a few reasons why the orcs may not have kansas-style farmlands. Also, please realize that this is based on cursory research, so it is rather over-simplified. But I bet it's more research than Mookie did.
Ah, but that might hinge on an omnivorous culture. For small populations I could see how a hunter-gatherer livestyle could work well. Make a big kill, and you can eat well for a week. For herbivores, you're focusing on the gathering, and that takes a lot of time. It's why grazing animals spend most of their waking hours eating. The only benefit I could see to a gatherer based culture over agriculture would be if the orcs were living in the land of soy milk and honey, say a jungle full of edible fruit, where you can find enough food just like that. The plains of Maltak never seems to be like that, not unless all that grass was actually the tops of turnips.

The second big problem is that Maltak doesn't exist in a vacuum. Callan is right next door, and they've got farms and houses and indoor plumbing and everything (or at least I assume so, there's plenty of holes in how Callan works; it's very middle class centred from what I've seen. But I digress.) Given that we know there's interaction between the two cultures - orcs travel to Callan and travel back - news of what Callan is like would have spread centuries ago. Yet no orc tribe has ever decided that it might just be better to copy a few ideas from their Callanian neighbours and settle down in a nice fertile spot and grow their own turnips for a change.

I'm guessing that, poison or no, elder orcs have always been really stubborn about changing the old ways. And the only reason that Maltak wasn't invaded earlier was that no other Dominon race could be bothered.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Ah, but that might hinge on an omnivorous culture. For small populations I could see how a hunter-gatherer livestyle could work well. Make a big kill, and you can eat well for a week. For herbivores, you're focusing on the gathering, and that takes a lot of time. It's why grazing animals spend most of their waking hours eating. The only benefit I could see to a gatherer based culture over agriculture would be if the orcs were living in the land of soy milk and honey, say a jungle full of edible fruit, where you can find enough food just like that. The plains of Maltak never seems to be like that, not unless all that grass was actually the tops of turnips.

The second big problem is that Maltak doesn't exist in a vacuum. Callan is right next door, and they've got farms and houses and indoor plumbing and everything (or at least I assume so, there's plenty of holes in how Callan works; it's very middle class centred from what I've seen. But I digress.) Given that we know there's interaction between the two cultures - orcs travel to Callan and travel back - news of what Callan is like would have spread centuries ago. Yet no orc tribe has ever decided that it might just be better to copy a few ideas from their Callanian neighbours and settle down in a nice fertile spot and grow their own turnips for a change.

I'm guessing that, poison or no, elder orcs have always been really stubborn about changing the old ways. And the only reason that Maltak wasn't invaded earlier was that no other Dominon race could be bothered.

That's actually the impression of the pre-war Maltak plains that I got, that it was vegan paradise. Plus an apple tree or two could easily be that same big kill you mentioned, supplimented with other grub, as the big kill would have been for an omnivore. But you are right, orcs being herbivores does make it a far harder sell. In fact I've read several studies where it was argued that the initial evolutionary advantages that started the path to sentience were related to hunting, as our ancestors were able to abstractly communicate animal tracts and movement patterns in the sense of past and future, not just present tense, so take that as you will for orc evolution. As for small population sizes, allowing a larger population to be sustained on the same size of land is another advantage that's inherent of agriculture, and given limited technology, numbers equaled strength, thus allowing the cultures supported by total agriculture to overrun any people that weren't to gain their land for further agriculture. However, in Deeganverse, Magic = Technology, and since it's older than dirt it seems, the fewer orcs could reasonably hold off a larger invading force with superior magic.

I agree there should be some technology creep, though who's to say they don't use ecomancy to make giant tomatoes and eat them without needing a farm? The basic problem is that for all of Mookie's epic world building the logic of the civilizations still has more holes than his plot, and we can't really have an intelligent discussion without at least some foundations in sanity. The best I can offer is that nationalistic pride and xenophobia will always triumph over the importing of advances from different cultures, and these orcs are clearly no exception. You don't need bullying chiefs if the entire clan supports the bigotry. See Bitka.

[AgentPaper]

I've figured it all out! It all makes sense now! I present to you, my...


UNIFIED ORC THEORY

a.k.a. Prologue to Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire

At first, orcs were primal ape-like creatures who hunted large carnivorous plants by wrassling them to the ground - hence they developed their typically strong musculature. As well, whenever they killed a plant, some of their sap would be absorbed into the orcs skin, and this sap happened to be a natural green dye, though a weak one, as well as causing all of the orc's body hair to fall out. Through natural selection, orc females eventually came to prefer hairless green-hued orcs over normal ones, giving orcs their green hue and complete lack of any sort of body hair as naturally hairless and greener orcs became more likely to mate and pass on their genes.

Eventually, orcs started to figure out how to use the stick-plant (a strange root plant that naturally grew into a very straight, very hard rod that sticks out of the ground a bit when fully mature) as a weapon, and those that did so became highly successful, being able to hunt the carnivorous plants as their primary diet, no longer needing to move about and eat the odd bit of grass to try and survive. Over time, this caused orcs to grow tusks to more easily eat the tough root of the carnivorous plants, as well as making them more intelligent. (again through natural selection)

Eventually, the orcs killed off the carnivorous plants altogether with their new-found weaponry and intelligence. With such an important part of their diet gone, only the most intelligent and cunning orcs survived, and they did so by living off of the rare grasses that grew sporadically in the plains. Eventually these grim survivors banded together to form what was later called the Kelsheen clan, developing the first traces of civilization, though crude. They also stopped using the stick-plants as weapons and instead used them as support-poles for their tepees, which they had to move around constantly to follow the grasses. The cloth for the tepee is in fact a non-edible part of the grass, which also happens to turn different colors when treated in different ways, perfect for tattoos or hair dye.

However, with the carnivorous plants gone as competitors for nutrients (which the carnivorous plants used massive amounts of) the grass exploded in quantity, leading to the plains being the verdant grassland that they are now, and life became easier for the orcs. As well, an odd set of genes emerged which produced slight variations in facial features, which orcs learned to detect. The way these genes activated also happened to correspond to the fundamental personality traits of the various orcs, and division among the Kelsheen, the one tribe, began to emerge. Disputes raged, and eventually the clans decided to split into what became the 5 clans about 40-50 years ago. As well, a sixth clan formed not long after, formed of the rejects from other clans, mostly those who didn't fit with the normal behavioral traits usually associated with their clan's facial features.

However, the orc's development as fierce fighters and hunters didn't vanish when the carnivorous plants did, and their violent ways led them to launch constant raids on the human settlements. The humans had made trade agreements with the orcs, providing them with manufactured goods such as drums, magical training, and leaves of various kinds, which the orcs had adopted as a fashion after raiding parties had brought them back from successful raids. In return, the orcs gave the humans the plentiful stick-plant, which became a popular building material. (The stick-plant is very strong, and when it gets hot, it becomes soft just before lighting on fire, allowing it to be molded into any shape. However, this process also makes it very brittle, almost crystalline in molecular structure, leading to it's nickname)

Not long after this trade started, though, one of the orc clans, the Shintula, discovered an ancient magic, which they eventually called the Nakta. This new magic was very powerful, even moreso than the magic that the humans had been teaching them. The Shintula quickly mastered this new magic, and taught it to the humans as well, for payment yet to be decided. However, it was later revealed that the Nakta had the unfortunate side-effect of making the user go insane and become depraved. The deal was called off, and the Shintula, already going insane, thought that the humans were betraying them, and going to refuse the deal. The humans had no choice but to kill every single orc present, as they had all gone mad with the Nakta.

A misunderstanding occurred, (due to a criminally-inept high ranking official) and the king of Callan thought he were being told that ALL orcs had gone insane, and regretfully ordered that his army go forth and kill them all before the orcs could do massive damage to the border-cities, which had begun to prosper with the new trade routes. The knights, battle-mages, and newly-formed nakta trained unit (who became known as Infernomancers) set out, leading a highly effective campaign against the orcs, who naturally fought back, many reverting to their primal instincts. The war ended shorty lafter as the tragic circumstances came to light, but the orcs refused to believe that this was anything but human treachery.

The Callan king sorrowfully posed guards along the border, where once bustling trade routes had passed. Most of the border-cities fell apart with the sudden lack of trade, and becoming warrens of filth and crime. A powerful, if unstable, archmage decided to build her tower in one of these cities, and the rich students flooding in saved the town from sinking as low as most. Others, such as Barthis and Lyn's Brook, were too small to feel the majority of the impact from trade, but still many lives were ruined, and much of the populace came to blame the Callan government for their troubles, and mob rule has started to surface from time to time.

Consider that a preview of the plot of the comic me an Domo are apparently making, which covers the events leading up to DD. Not included in the above: There will be a trio of recurring comic relief characters, who's names you already know! These wacked-out hipsters roam the Plains of Maltak, showing up for many important events, and are constantly on so many mind-effecting drugs that they have come to believe that they are part of some bigger plot, encompassing heaven and hell and even some made-up planes of existence that nobody really understands! It'll be quite the ride! :smallbiggrin:

[Joro]

I wish I hadn't sold back my archaeology textbook, then I would have cool things to contribute to the discussion.
The only NA tribe I can really claim knowledge about had a similar tech level with what the orcs appear to have (no metal/pottery) but they had a rich sea right next to the rich forest and domesticated dogs.

I keep trying to write my own story, and I keep getting bogged down in making sure the world fits together in a sensible fashion. Granted, it's probably easier to maintain coherence from the start rather than making everything fit together piecemeal over a period of years, but still, there's something that grates for me when somebody apparently just "Wouldn't it be cool"s his world together out of hand. I must confess my enjoyment for this thread probably stems in part from a bit of "Heh, I would never commit such a mistake. Look at the fool!"

Mookie does have the advantage on me in that he is actually putting his work out there and has the discipline to maintain a schedule, so credit to him for that.

Heh, forum ate my post, by I showed it by copying the text before submitting. Man triumphs over machine!

[Rappy]

Unlurk mode activated!

Stupirific new page. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-05-05)

I have few words that can describe how meaningless the last panel is to me.

[Ganurath]

I've figured it all out! It all makes sense now! I present to you, my...


UNIFIED ORC THEORY

a.k.a. Prologue to Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire

At first, orcs were primal ape-like creatures who hunted large carnivorous plants by wrassling them to the ground - hence they developed their typically strong musculature. As well, whenever they killed a plant, some of their sap would be absorbed into the orcs skin, and this sap happened to be a natural green dye, though a weak one, as well as causing all of the orc's body hair to fall out. Through natural selection, orc females eventually came to prefer hairless green-hued orcs over normal ones, giving orcs their green hue and complete lack of any sort of body hair as naturally hairless and greener orcs became more likely to mate and pass on their genes.

Eventually, orcs started to figure out how to use the stick-plant (a strange root plant that naturally grew into a very straight, very hard rod that sticks out of the ground a bit when fully mature) as a weapon, and those that did so became highly successful, being able to hunt the carnivorous plants as their primary diet, no longer needing to move about and eat the odd bit of grass to try and survive. Over time, this caused orcs to grow tusks to more easily eat the tough root of the carnivorous plants, as well as making them more intelligent. (again through natural selection)

Eventually, the orcs killed off the carnivorous plants altogether with their new-found weaponry and intelligence. With such an important part of their diet gone, only the most intelligent and cunning orcs survived, and they did so by living off of the rare grasses that grew sporadically in the plains. Eventually these grim survivors banded together to form what was later called the Kelsheen clan, developing the first traces of civilization, though crude. They also stopped using the stick-plants as weapons and instead used them as support-poles for their tepees, which they had to move around constantly to follow the grasses. The cloth for the tepee is in fact a non-edible part of the grass, which also happens to turn different colors when treated in different ways, perfect for tattoos or hair dye.

However, with the carnivorous plants gone as competitors for nutrients (which the carnivorous plants used massive amounts of) the grass exploded in quantity, leading to the plains being the verdant grassland that they are now, and life became easier for the orcs. As well, an odd set of genes emerged which produced slight variations in facial features, which orcs learned to detect. The way these genes activated also happened to correspond to the fundamental personality traits of the various orcs, and division among the Kelsheen, the one tribe, began to emerge. Disputes raged, and eventually the clans decided to split into what became the 5 clans about 40-50 years ago. As well, a sixth clan formed not long after, formed of the rejects from other clans, mostly those who didn't fit with the normal behavioral traits usually associated with their clan's facial features.

However, the orc's development as fierce fighters and hunters didn't vanish when the carnivorous plants did, and their violent ways led them to launch constant raids on the human settlements. The humans had made trade agreements with the orcs, providing them with manufactured goods such as drums, magical training, and leaves of various kinds, which the orcs had adopted as a fashion after raiding parties had brought them back from successful raids. In return, the orcs gave the humans the plentiful stick-plant, which became a popular building material. (The stick-plant is very strong, and when it gets hot, it becomes soft just before lighting on fire, allowing it to be molded into any shape. However, this process also makes it very brittle, almost crystalline in molecular structure, leading to it's nickname)

Not long after this trade started, though, one of the orc clans, the Shintula, discovered an ancient magic, which they eventually called the Nakta. This new magic was very powerful, even moreso than the magic that the humans had been teaching them. The Shintula quickly mastered this new magic, and taught it to the humans as well, for payment yet to be decided. However, it was later revealed that the Nakta had the unfortunate side-effect of making the user go insane and become depraved. The deal was called off, and the Shintula, already going insane, thought that the humans were betraying them, and going to refuse the deal. The humans had no choice but to kill every single orc present, as they had all gone mad with the Nakta.

A misunderstanding occurred, (due to a criminally-inept high ranking official) and the king of Callan thought he were being told that ALL orcs had gone insane, and regretfully ordered that his army go forth and kill them all before the orcs could do massive damage to the border-cities, which had begun to prosper with the new trade routes. The knights, battle-mages, and newly-formed nakta trained unit (who became known as Infernomancers) set out, leading a highly effective campaign against the orcs, who naturally fought back, many reverting to their primal instincts. The war ended shorty lafter as the tragic circumstances came to light, but the orcs refused to believe that this was anything but human treachery.

The Callan king sorrowfully posed guards along the border, where once bustling trade routes had passed. Most of the border-cities fell apart with the sudden lack of trade, and becoming warrens of filth and crime. A powerful, if unstable, archmage decided to build her tower in one of these cities, and the rich students flooding in saved the town from sinking as low as most. Others, such as Barthis and Lyn's Brook, were too small to feel the majority of the impact from trade, but still many lives were ruined, and much of the populace came to blame the Callan government for their troubles, and mob rule has started to surface from time to time.

Consider that a preview of the plot of the comic me an Domo are apparently making, which covers the events leading up to DD. Not included in the above: There will be a trio of recurring comic relief characters, who's names you already know! These wacked-out hipsters roam the Plains of Maltak, showing up for many important events, and are constantly on so many mind-effecting drugs that they have come to believe that they are part of some bigger plot, encompassing heaven and hell and even some made-up planes of existence that nobody really understands! It'll be quite the ride! :smallbiggrin:I'm afraid your hypothesis is flawed. The Nakta magic is tied to the metaphysical plane of destruction, which is distinctly seperate from DDverse's hell. This is further reinforced by Jayden's concern that the free infernomancers may be teaching the orcs their lore. Given Jacob's interest in the orcish lore, it's more likely that the Nakta is to necromancy what Chandak is to elemental magic.

Also, Stonewater appears to be planning to steal Spark's voice to be used as fertilizer.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Oh man, that last panel is perfect slay material too :smallbiggrin:

Also: Magic = Radiation? Does this mean Spark is some sort of Supercat? :smallconfused:

[Castel]

No, it means he has lymphoma.
(insert peter griffin laughter here)

[Rappy]

Also: Magic = Radiation?
Again, this is another idea that could be very interestingly implemented. That's actually becoming one of my most aggravating issues with Dominic Deegan...Mookie does have some interesting premises, but he doesn't implement them well. I'm almost tempted to put up some "Deegan Reiimagined" type posts some time.

...Then again, I am a person who has considered writing "Ecology of Donkey Kong Country" before... :smallredface:

[Jahkaivah]

Wow... so much exposition recently, they've even gone ahead and told us why Spark can talk, something I've wondered since well yknow... since the beginning of this webcomic, surely there should be some kind of rule that revealing that after all this time requires you to sacrifice a goat or something.

Just to confirm that we weren't told this I checked Sparks entry in the cast page...

...well I couldn't find that cast page of course since there was no visible link to it, but I did read something amusing in the wiki cast page.


Spark - Spark is Dominic's talking pet cat. He constantly complains that Dominic does not feed him enough. Despite his lack of physical or magical abilities, Spark possesses one ability: "Death From Above!" where he jumps in the air and lands on an opponent's head. Even though he is only a cat, Spark has the intelligence of any normal person, although it is almost always directed at feline goals; the acquisition of food chief among them. Spark also makes a wonderful therapist for Dominic and comforts him in any way he can.


Yeah, lack of magical abilities... :smalltongue: why do I get the feeling that is going to sound more preposterous as this arc develops?

[lord_khaine]

brilliant writing Agent paper, you make it make sense, i look forward to the next part :)

[Oracle_Hunter]

Again, this is another idea that could be very interestingly implemented. That's actually becoming one of my most aggravating issues with Dominic Deegan...Mookie does have some interesting premises, but he doesn't implement them well. I'm almost tempted to put up some "Deegan Reiimagined" type posts some time.
Ah yes, this is my draw as well; Mookie has fantastic ideas, but he cannot express them without creating a horrible perversion of storytelling. A normal failure would merely do a crappy job of utilizing a good idea - Mookie not only fails to do the idea justice, but he twists it so badly that it you boggle at ever having considered it a good idea in the first place!

I actually re-wrote (OK re-storyboarded) the first few Arcs that played DD as a dramatic comic sometime in a past thread. IIRC it involved Mama Travoria being part of a Conspiracy against the Royal Knights that was developed through the subsequent Arcs. Also, Dominic caused the death of Barthis's original Seer during some botched heroics in "Visions of Doom" and ended up setting up shop in Barthis out of guilt and necessity.

If I were a better man, I'd find me an artist and actually script it out and throw it on the 'net. Partially to see it happen, but also partially to see what Mookie's reaction would be when he found out :smalltongue:

...but I know I couldn't commit to an endeavor like that now. Maybe someday :smallfrown:

[Hell Puppi]

Well... I mean... I'm sure he wasn't the first but 'magic warping stuff and making talking animals' appeared in Terry Pratchett novels a few times, so it's not that unique an idea.

Not that I'm downing Mookie, I'm just saying it's more like 'oh okay' to a Discworld reader than 'hey that's a neat idea.'

[Deus_e_Machina]

Oh man, that last panel is perfect slay material too :smallbiggrin:

Also: Magic = Radiation? Does this mean Spark is some sort of Supercat? :smallconfused:

... but if Magic = Radiation... then that means...

Next time, on a Very Special Episode of Dominic Deegan:
"Miranda Deegan, you have... magic cancer."

[Johnny Blade]

For once, Mookie really managed to surprise me. I was almost sure today's update would be about Hansi and Dominic meeting Grench doing something irrelevant.

Also, I wonder why Stonewater has Bikta in his Sanctuary. I mean, they have their own, and it's bigger and offers more entertainment.
Well, at least this relegates Melna to complete uselessness yet again.


Anyway, I can't wait to see how Spark apparently being a vessel for the Nakta or something like that plays out. The potential is endless, and I'm almost sure that it will screw up the magic system yet again.

And magic causing mutations is a boon to Domiology like none before. :smallbiggrin:

[Trazoi]

For once, Mookie really managed to surprise me. I was almost sure today's update would be about Hansi and Dominic meeting Grench doing something irrelevant.
I'm still suspecting Grench will be dead or nearly dead so that Melna and Stonewater can become an item. It's so wrong it's bound to happen, or at least become a distinct possibility.

[Domochevsky]

Pretty meh strip today, art wise. Nothing too bad or too good. (except Panel 4 and maybe 5) :smallfrown:

And who is this Grench? I can't put a face to that name. (Well, ANY face would do, but i want it to be more specific)




...
Also, Domochevsky, can you please change your icon? Every time I look at your posts now I feel like I'm about to be shoot in the face. :smalleek: Though I can live with it so long as you don't actually do so. :smallamused:

Is this one better? :smallsmile:

[Enlong]

And who is this Grench? I can't put a face to that name. (Well, ANY face would do, but i want it to be more specific)


Pink hair? Traveled with Stonewater and Bulgak before and during the Battle for Barthis? Magic dancer? Ring a bell?

[Trazoi]

And who is this Grench? I can't put a face to that name. (Well, ANY face would do, but i want it to be more specific)
Grench is Stonewater's girlfriend or posibly fiancee (edit: at least I think so. It's possible they're just good friends and my memory is playing up. It's been a while since I've read the whole archive). From memory, she first entered the comic when she charged the stage during the Battle for Barthis to dance while Melna laid down some funky orcish beats.

Other Grench highlights:

Grench tells and shows Dominic what she thinks of him being friends with Stonewater after learning his backstory. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2006-01-16)

Grench acts in an appropriate way when hearing about Siggy Senior's death. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2006-07-27)

With most of the Second Caste on the high speed train to derailment, she's one of the few characters left that I remember actually acting in an appropriate fashion most of the time.

[Domochevsky]

Ah, i see... had her totally flushed from my memory. Good to see Mookie is already on to her. :smallsmile:

[Epsilon]

A pivotal point being left out of the orcs development is the shemash. They apparently have an endless lust for art, which they cannot create themselves, and learned what dancing was from the orcs and they also must be on the border of Maltak. This, along with the fact that Semash aren’t Callains and might not kill the orcs at the drop of a hat, implies that the two may have had trade relations that looked something like:

Orcs teach Semash popin-fresh dance moves to use in their duels, and Semash give orcs hides and leather (and possibly bows) so they can look more Indian.

This trade collapsed after it rained that one time which caused the Semash’s dancing to devolve into dirty dancing and the orcs to lose their influx of goods. The result: They can only create 2-dimensional teepees, which they turn in the direction of the wind for shelter, and must now throw their arrows.



More on today’s comic, the magic-radiation thing could be interesting as it would give their magic some level of reprocussion. Because of Callain’s reliance on magic people begin being born with more and more defects eventually turning into monster while the land itself become uninhabitable. May the Dominus help us all…

[Johnny Blade]

Grench is Stonewater's girlfriend or posibly fiancee (edit: at least I think so. It's possible they're just good friends and my memory is playing up. It's been a while since I've read the whole archive). From memory, she first entered the comic when she charged the stage during the Battle for Barthis to dance while Melna laid down some funky orcish beats.

Other Grench highlights:

Grench tells and shows Dominic what she thinks of him being friends with Stonewater after learning his backstory. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2006-01-16)

Grench acts in an appropriate way when hearing about Siggy Senior's death. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2006-07-27)
Grench fulfilling the true purpose of the female Dominion Ape. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-02-11)


With most of the Second Caste on the high speed train to derailment, she's one of the few characters left that I remember actually acting in an appropriate fashion most of the time.
Good one. :smallbiggrin:
I can't even decide what I find funnier - using "Grench" and "acting" in the same sentence, or the thought of an orc "acting in an appropriate fashion".

[Winterwind]

Great theory, AgentPaper. :smallsmile:


Grench fulfilling the true purpose of the female Dominion Ape. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-02-11)Umm... what the hell happened to the orcs in the background there? This... this is just trippy... :smalleek:


Today's strip: What's with their eyes? What, in the name of all that is good and holy, is going on with their freakin' eyes?! :smalleek:

First, in panel one, we have Stonewater staring at some point which most definitely is not Spark, giving him such a drugged-up appearance I can't help but imagine him saying his words in a run-down hippy voice. Maybe he should rename himself to Stonedwater?

Panel three is one of the creepiest things I have ever seen in Dominic Deegan. I can only speculate that this woman is silently whispering "You step out of that tent, kitty, and I will devour you raw!" (and in panel four Stonewater exchanges a meaningful look with her, as if to say "You can have it after I'm done with it!")

And in panel six, Stonewater suddenly goes so horribly cross-eyed, I'm afraid the muscles controlling his eye movement must finally have fallen prey to some flesh-eating parasites.

[Frogwarrior]

What the hell is going on here.
No really. What the hell.
Is Spark a Shintula all of a sudden?

...

Please tell me he won't be representing them at the Orc Dance Revolution tournament.

[Gez]

Panel three is one of the creepiest things I have ever seen in Dominic Deegan. I can only speculate that this woman is silently whispering "You step out of that tent, kitty, and I will devour you raw!" (and in panel four Stonewater exchanges a meaningful look with her, as if to say "You can have it after I'm done with it!")

I don't think she wants to eat a cat (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2004-01-14), because this orc woman (err, woorc?) has not spent every waking minute reminding everybody around her that she's gay.

[Winterwind]

I don't think she wants to eat a cat (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2004-01-14), because this orc woman (err, woorc?) has not spent every waking minute reminding everybody around her that she's gay.Good point. :smallbiggrin:

But how do you explain this woman woorc's creepy stare then? :smallconfused:

[averagejoe]

Wow... so much exposition recently, they've even gone ahead and told us why Spark can talk, something I've wondered since well yknow... since the beginning of this webcomic, surely there should be some kind of rule that revealing that after all this time requires you to sacrifice a goat or something.

I agree. The whole Spark thing had been bugging me for awhile. At the least he could have shown some non-talking cats or something.

[Johnny Blade]

Good point. :smallbiggrin:

But how do you explain this woman woorc's creepy stare then? :smallconfused:
Dude we're on the internet here. Are you sure you want to ask that question?

[Winterwind]

Dude we're on the internet here. Are you sure you want to ask that question?Why, definitely so! Isn't this the hallmark of any good Domiologist - to ask questions nobody else ever dared to ask? :smalltongue:

[Morty]

As always, the snarkers come up with explanations for Mookie's plotholes that are better than anything Mookie could ever come up with.
Also, it's not a bad idea for magic to mutate animals. Or rather, it wouldn't be, if magic in Dominion has ever been shown to have any sort of negative side-effects.

[Johnny Blade]

Why, definitely so! Isn't this the hallmark of any good Domiologist - to ask questions nobody else ever dared to ask? :smalltongue:
Well, I tried to warn you, now it's out of my hands.


Anyway, I really can't wait to see tomorrow's strip.


Because, right now, the situation looks like this:

1. Spark was, more or less, created by residuary Callanian magic.
2. Callanian magic is radically different from Orc magic - both the Nakta and Chandak magic still function, whereas Callanian magic does not.
3. Spark is still alive, still has a human-like intellect, and is still able to talk despite this.
4. He is also connected to the Nakta somehow.

Now, could anybody please tell me how that makes any sense?

[Gez]

Good point. :smallbiggrin:

But how do you explain this woman woorc's creepy stare then? :smallconfused:

I explain it like Mookie would: not at all!

By the way, I see Spark is less of a familiar and more of a disciple.

So today's comic inspired this:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h107/sjunderw/Other/Slays/AnimeMouthFight.png

[Winterwind]

Because, right now, the situation looks like this:

1. Spark was, more or less, created by residuary Callanian magic.
2. Callanian magic is radically different from Orc magic - both the Nakta and Chandak magic still function, whereas Callanian magic does not.
3. Spark is still alive, still has a human-like intellect, and is still able to talk despite this.
4. He is also connected to the Nakta somehow.

Now, could anybody please tell me how that makes any sense?Without the last two panels of today's strip, one could have argued that the residual magic caused Spark to mutate without acquiring any magical properties himself - his ability to speak and his intellect not being magic at all, but him having developed actual human(ish) vocal chords and a human(ish) brain instead.
With the last two panels though... yeah, that makes no sense at all.


I explain it like Mookie would: not at all!But she is so terrifying! Are we sure is not secretely the actual main antagonist of the entire comic, or something like that? :smalleek:

[Fawkes]

If I were a better man, I'd find me an artist and actually script it out and throw it on the 'net. Partially to see it happen, but also partially to see what Mookie's reaction would be when he found out :smalltongue:

Lawsuit? :smalltongue:

[Ganurath]

I can't believe that it took this long to notice that Spark inherited Dominic's Detaching Mandibles in the last panel.

[Sucrose]

What the hell is going on here.
No really. What the hell.
Is Spark a Shintula all of a sudden?

...

Please tell me he won't be representing them at the Orc Dance Revolution tournament.

Perhaps Stonewater plans to pull out the magic that Spark has within him to try to heal the land a bit more. He's hoping that Callanian magic will have an effect that Akta cannot. It'll cost Spark his sentience, but ya gotta break some eggs now and again.

Oh, and thank you for the welcome, Winterwind and Oracle Hunter.:smallsmile:

[Gez]

I can't believe that it took this long to notice that Spark inherited Dominic's Detaching Mandibles in the last panel.

More exactly, it took this long to retrieve the Vael's strip slay. :smallbiggrin:

[Oracle_Hunter]

Lawsuit? :smalltongue:
Dude, do you know how many Wallpapers he'd have to sell to afford one? :smalltongue:

Besides, he doesn't strike me as the litigious sort. I actually can't decide how he would react - after all, this wouldn't be slays, it'd be original art with original dialogue... technically there wouldn't be anything to copyright if I also renamed the characters and used different character designs. The real issue is whether or not trying to avoid a Copyright Infringement Suit would make me seem more guilty (and therefore, have less access to a Fair Use defense) than blithely going along with the same characters but using different art & dialogue.

Oh, Copyright Law - you are so amusing :smallbiggrin:

[Morty]

I just noticed the cat's picture in the newspost. I'll bet good money that Mookie was amused by it and the purpose of today's comic was to draw Spark demanding an explanation.

[Jahkaivah]

I can't believe that it took this long to notice that Spark inherited Dominic's Detaching Mandibles in the last panel.

I reckon this is caused by Cheekmouth, think about it, the mouth must reside on the observed cheek right? But what if you look at the face head on? The mouth cannot pick a cheek when both cheeks share equal observation so therefore the mouth will attempt to go to both cheeks at one, causing the deformities we are witnessing. Mookie is simply unable to draw a normal mouth anymore.

[Johnny Blade]

I just noticed the cat's picture in the newspost. I'll bet good money that Mookie was amused by it and the purpose of today's comic was to draw Spark demanding an explanation.
Wasn't there another picture like that before? Of his other cat? I'm just asking because you've got to wonder what he thinks is so funny about a yawning cat. :smalltongue:

[Frogwarrior]

Dude, do you know how many Wallpapers he'd have to sell to afford one? :smalltongue:

Besides, he doesn't strike me as the litigious sort. I actually can't decide how he would react - after all, this wouldn't be slays, it'd be original art with original dialogue... technically there wouldn't be anything to copyright if I also renamed the characters and used different character designs. The real issue is whether or not trying to avoid a Copyright Infringement Suit would make me seem more guilty (and therefore, have less access to a Fair Use defense) than blithely going along with the same characters but using different art & dialogue.

Oh, Copyright Law - you are so amusing :smallbiggrin:

Even with the same characters showing up every once in a while, it STILL would be parody, right? :smallbiggrin:

[Morty]

Wasn't there another picture like that before? Of his other cat? I'm just asking because you've got to wonder what he thinks is so funny about a yawning cat. :smalltongue:

Remember, we're talking about a man who considers SuperGreg to be a cool idea and thinks that Dominic is a good, benevolent person.

[Johnny Blade]

Remember, we're talking about a man who considers SuperGreg to be a cool idea and thinks that Dominic is a good, benevolent person.
Right... :smallamused:

Although, on second thought, I'm not sure if that cat's yawning at all. Maybe it just saw how the person responsible for sustaining it thinks its species looks.
I mean, if I were that cat, I'd be shocked myself.

[Mewtarthio]

Foreshadowing does not work that way! Proper foreshadowing can be interpreted in multiple ways, and the meaning only becomes obvious when you finish the story. You can't just state a prophecy about the five clans dancing as one and then cut to a village which is explicitly called "The Lost Clan Reborn" where the five clans live as one and expect any tension whatsoever to remain!

In other news, Spark's now the Chosen One? I suddenly get this impression of the Nakta as a capricious and slightly senile god:

"O mighty Nakta, it is time to choose the savior of destiny."

"Hey, stop bothering me. I'm trying to figure out why some orcs are pink and have weird noses."

"Those are humans, your deificness. They're just suffering from cheekmouth."

"Whatever. Man, I'm bored. Why are these people so depressing?"

"Exalted one, cheekmouth is a very serious--"

"Hey! Check it out! Here's a pink orc who knows how to have a good time!"

"What? Oh, my nakta, she's not--She's just in her 'manic' phase."

"Bah, all these mortals are just in their 'living' phases. I thought I told you to stop bothering me."

"But what about the savior of destiny? We need an orc to save Maltak!"

"Oh, fine. I pick her. The one with the phases."

"I already told you, o most high one, she's not--"

"Hey, who's the god here, me or you? I pick her, and that's final!"

"*sigh* Very we--"

"OH! Lookit the adorable kitty! Who's a good kitty! Hey, it talks! That's so cute! I'm making it the other savior of destiny!"

"But we only have one... *sigh* As you wish, Supreme Being."

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I got such a laugh when I saw what he wrote below the cat pic.

Does he seriously consider his work ART?

[Mr. Scaly]

Hmm. Weird. If I were to guess I'd say that someone (probably Thuen Gor) is about to possess Spark and use him to talk to Stonewater.

[Trazoi]

Good one. :smallbiggrin:
I can't even decide what I find funnier - using "Grench" and "acting" in the same sentence, or the thought of an orc "acting in an appropriate fashion".
Oh, c'mon. I've got to find at least one female character in this strip that I can pretend isn't as mad as a box of frogs. Li'l Dexika hasn't been in the comic long enough, so Grench is the only one left.

[Johnny Blade]

Oh, c'mon. I've got to find at least one female character in this strip that I can pretend isn't as mad as a box of frogs. Li'l Dexika hasn't been in the comic long enough, so Grench is the only one left.
:confused:

I honestly thought you were joking.


Concerning Grench, well, apart from her reaction to Damaske's death, remember how she basically said that she doesn't actually mind that Stonewater's a rapist (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2006-02-14)?

But, if you're so desperate to find a sane female character, Pam has made progress, although being Greg's original love interest doesn't exactly help her cause.

Hirek? :smallamused:

[Trazoi]

Concerning Grench, well, apart from her reaction to Damaske's death, remember how she basically said that she doesn't actually care if Stonewater's a rapist (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2006-02-14)?
Hey, I liked Grench's reaction to Damaske's death. :smallannoyed:

I also don't mind Grench's reaction to learning about Stonewater's, uh, "marriage" to Melna. I'm assuming there's something like a decade of past history between the two. If she's been seeing Stonewater as an honourable, kind orc for a long time, in a society as messed up as the one in Maltak, then it's not infeasible she'd be able to forgive him fairly readily.

It doesn't forgive how everyone else in Dominic's Scooby Gang also forgave him based purely on Dominic's word. Or the "it was all a demon making you angry" subpot. I wouldn't have minded the whole rape plot point so much if it generated an appropriate amount of friction between the characters, but once Dom stated he was cool with it everyone toed the line. Which really strikes a bad chord with the characters who were meant to be Melna's friends. But I think we've covered that particular plot element to death already.


But, if you're so desperate to find a sane female character, Pam has made progress, although being Greg's original love interest doesn't exactly help her cause.
Not really. I still see Pam as Nurse Joy turned into Officer Mayor Jenny. Serious Business Pam in theory might get some kudos points, but she loses major point for the worst timed breakup in terms of story flow (months and months of nothing during the vacation arc and then WHAM! Breakup! Shows how important that relationship really was. Guess only Major Sues are allowed relationships in this day and age.). And her last act as Serious Business Pam was to fire Dex for one of the most bizarre reasons in the strip - was it because Callan is afraid of resistants, or union regulations?

Cassafin could've been a contender, except her role as a head of the university seems to consist entirely of playing with her boy toy Hansi.


Hirek? :smallamused:
Uh, who? :smallconfused:

[Johnny Blade]

Uh, who? :smallconfused:
Hirek. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-03-16) :smallbiggrin:

[Trazoi]

Hirek. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2009-03-16) :smallbiggrin:
So after first recommending Nurse Joy, you're now suggesting Jesse from Team Rocket?

[Johnny Blade]

So after first recommending Nurse Joy, you're now suggesting Jesse from Team Rocket?
Well...sort of, yes.

How about the Sylvan Oracle? Sure, she's dead, but it's not like you could afford being picky about that looking for a sane female DD character.



On another note, while we've already noted that the infernal poison infecting Maltak apparently affected only a select few individuals, looking back at the War in Hell arc, isn't it funny how Melna and Grench had to be poisoned again for it to have any effect? :smallamused:
Also, it was rather easy to get rid of then.

[Trazoi]

How about the Sylvan Oracle? Sure, she's dead, but it's not like you could afford being picky about that looking for a sane female DD character.
She's in the same category as Li'l Dexita and the Red Shirt Soup Wenches. She may be sane, and she may be female, but she's barely a character. In the case of the Oracle, she was more MacGuffin than anything else.

Of course, it's not that much better for male characters either. On the shortlist of sane male characters who haven't been totally derailed and aren't Sueriffic (i.e. Dom doesn't count), there's Hansi, and... uh, there's Hansi... ... maybe Bumper ... ... and Ernie (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2002-05-28) (although he's only in one strip. But he's still my favourite character).

[Gez]

How about the Sylvan Oracle?

Oooh, I forgot all about her. She forms with Kiya and Azazia the perfect trifecta of Green Women Who Want To Be Killed For The Cause.

[Mewtarthio]

Not really. I still see Pam as Nurse Joy turned into Officer Mayor Jenny. Serious Business Pam in theory might get some kudos points, but she loses major point for the worst timed breakup in terms of story flow (months and months of nothing during the vacation arc and then WHAM! Breakup! Shows how important that relationship really was. Guess only Major Sues are allowed relationships in this day and age.). And her last act as Serious Business Pam was to fire Dex for one of the most bizarre reasons in the strip - was it because Callan is afraid of resistants, or union regulations?

Hey, Pam's still awesome. Yeah, she loses points for firing Dex, but that was at least justified in that there was some weird Callanian regulation she had to comply with. The regulation is idiotic, but Pam was just stuck in the bureaucracy.

To be honest, I'm not sure what you mean by the ill-timed breakup. When Pam first met Greg, he was a noble White Mage who never sought glory and always practiced compassion, even when he himself was in need. Then he got derailed into the Aardvark. At that point, the only thing keeping their relationship together was Pam's nostalgic for the man Gregory had once been. When Gregory's brother abandoned a legally-enforced community service sentence to go on some world cruise and Gregory responded by asking if Pam would abandon her mayoral duties and do the same thing, that was the last straw.

[AgentPaper]

I'm afraid your hypothesis is flawed. The Nakta magic is tied to the metaphysical plane of destruction, which is distinctly seperate from DDverse's hell. This is further reinforced by Jayden's concern that the free infernomancers may be teaching the orcs their lore. Given Jacob's interest in the orcish lore, it's more likely that the Nakta is to necromancy what Chandak is to elemental magic.

Also, Stonewater appears to be planning to steal Spark's voice to be used as fertilizer.

Ah, but a fundamental assumption of my theory is that Dominic & gang are a group of drugged-up loonies. Heaven and hell don't actually exist, and they've just warped the events going on around them so that they are a key part of them. Karnak didn't become a demon lord, he simply died of drug overdose.

It's the only way anything could ever make sense.

[Trazoi]

Hey, Pam's still awesome. Yeah, she loses points for firing Dex, but that was at least justified in that there was some weird Callanian regulation she had to comply with. The regulation is idiotic, but Pam was just stuck in the bureaucracy.
She's the mayor, she is the bureaucracy. Given we don't really have a face to who in Callan is making all these weird laws up, I'll have to put the blame on the local elected representative. :smallamused:


To be honest, I'm not sure what you mean by the ill-timed breakup.
I'm talking ill-timed narratively. There's plenty of in-character reasons for Pam to break up with Greg. The problem is we didn't really see them. The only real strife form Pam I remember is in the infamous Snowsong arc, and that was seemed (rightfully) aimed more at Dominic.

Now, logically Pam should have broken up with Greg. She was becoming a mature politican, while Greg was being fully derailed into Gohan with none of the smarts or sensibility. But I never really saw any of that happen. Instead we got The Vacation Arc Where Nothing Happens for months and months and months, with the only redeeming feature being the clever twist was that the whole point of the arc was a cruel form of torture for the Oracle Hunter (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-10-14)*

Then the instant Dom and Luna set foot back in Barthis, it's like three months worth of plot decided to hit me at once, and it's all instigated by Pam. Pam breaks up with Greg and fires Dex in the space of a couple of strips. It felt like after a huge flat plain of narrative nothingness the story had soared right off a cliff. The story pacing went from zero to eleven just like that.

If this had been telegraphed somehow, say by Dom and Luna checking in with Greg via their crystall ball and him acting all clueless and happy while Pam was getting increasingly stressed out, I don't think I'd have a problem with it. As it stands, it feels like the relationship between Greg and Pam was essentially meaningless (it's essentially brushed aside almost immediately to focus on Dex). Which I guess it was, but I think it needed a bit more resolution then it deserved. I felt it was a monumental screw up of story-telling really, although it was probably my fault for even caring about Greg and Pam in the first place. Sigh.

* That was meant to be the twist, right?

[The Linker]

You have a very good point. With those comments about how much Gerg had changed since Pam met him, breaking up was incredibly logical and could have made great character development. But we just didn't get ANY of that! Instead, we got the equivalent of "im busy nao, no tiem for guyz!" :smalltongue:

It's a very good example of the caste system. Pam was painted as the person at fault there, sort of, when it was (or should have been) all Gregory's fault. Meanwhile, Gregory learns nothing, even setting off with the intention of... getting laid. Yup, no question of "Was it something I did?" or any sort of "Was it me?"

All in all, it just seems like it served as a quick and poorly thought-out way to get Greg to go with Dex, so he could be there to get his White Magic sucked out. Mookie probably even thought, "Main characters breaking up? Hey, that's good drama! Lots of stories do that. I don't need to expand on it at all, do I?"

[Trazoi]

Mookie probably even thought, "Main characters breaking up? Hey, that's good drama! Lots of stories do that. I don't need to expand on it at all, do I?"
Exactly. Note that the breakup between Pam and Greg wasn't important enough to even warrant a whole comic strip. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-10-21)

Not an entire strip... after five months of the vacation arc...

There's another factor that bugs me, which I felt was best expressed with a real quick strip slay:
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4731/20081021.png

[The Linker]

Heh, heh. :smallbiggrin:

You're not kidding about 'not warranting a whole comic strip.' Hell, it wasn't even the major event of its own strip. The major event seems to be 'I have to fire Garitt!' C'mon, give them SOMETHING, Mookie! :smallfrown:

[Oracle_Hunter]

There's another factor that bugs me, which I felt was best expressed with a real quick strip slay:
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4731/20081021.png


:tongue:

Superb! Also, remember that Pam didn't stop liking Gregory because he changed - it was because she changed (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-10-21). Yep, women are the cause of all breakups in DD - delightful, no? :smallannoyed:

[Mewtarthio]

Superb! Also, remember that Pam didn't stop liking Gregory because he changed - it was because she changed (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-10-21). Yep, women are the cause of all breakups in DD - delightful, no? :smallannoyed:

In her defense, telling Luna that you have a problem with Dominic's brother is like walking into the Ministry of Love and asking why our chocolate rations have decreased when Big Brother says they've increased.

[Trazoi]

You're not kidding about 'not warranting a whole comic strip.' Hell, it wasn't even the major event of its own strip. The major event seems to be 'I have to fire Garitt!' C'mon, give them SOMETHING, Mookie! :smallfrown:
I remember being especially annoyed at the time. It might have been because during the vacation arc I read through the archive for the first time. Unlike the relationship between Jayden and Milov there's actually an awful lot of time dedicated to the building of the relationship between Greg and Pam. To have it all just discarded in a fraction of a strip was dumbfounding. I'd actually list this as one if not the biggest examples of failure in storytelling in the recent arcs, although it's easy to miss given it's about something that isn't there.

If I were reading the comic for pure enjoyment (i.e. if this thread didn't exist), then the main hook would be the characters. Dominic Deegan's premise is essentially a fantasy soap opera. I could look past the rough art and the plot holes if I cared about what was happening to the cast. But then you get stuff like this. A breakup of a serious relationship in a soap opera, one that took several arcs to blossom should be a big event. Instead it ends up as half a footnote sandwiched between Luna's exposition slideshow and DBZ villain Collatoral Damage man blowing stuff up.

Now you know why I'm hunting for characters I can still care about in this comic. Unfortunately it seems the comic panes in recent times are like a chaos-fuelled corruption ray. If it focuses on any character for more than a moment they get warped into a horrible parody of their former selves. :smallfrown:

[The Linker]

Imagine if something of this level happened with Milov and Jayden's relationship. :smalleek:


Jayden: I had sex with Seigfried.

Milov: WHAT!? *angry throatslash*

Dominic: Excellent illusion, Luna.

Jayden: Staring at my own corpse is creepy. [/punchline]

And this would be the next strip. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-12-04) :smalltongue:

[Mewtarthio]

And this would be the next strip. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-12-04) :smalltongue:

Not to distract from the topic at hand, but isn't "Jaime" a man's name?

[averagejoe]

I'm talking ill-timed narratively. There's plenty of in-character reasons for Pam to break up with Greg. The problem is we didn't really see them. The only real strife form Pam I remember is in the infamous Snowsong arc, and that was seemed (rightfully) aimed more at Dominic.

Now, logically Pam should have broken up with Greg. She was becoming a mature politican, while Greg was being fully derailed into Gohan with none of the smarts or sensibility. But I never really saw any of that happen. Instead we got The Vacation Arc Where Nothing Happens for months and months and months, with the only redeeming feature being the clever twist was that the whole point of the arc was a cruel form of torture for the Oracle Hunter (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-10-14)*

Then the instant Dom and Luna set foot back in Barthis, it's like three months worth of plot decided to hit me at once, and it's all instigated by Pam. Pam breaks up with Greg and fires Dex in the space of a couple of strips. It felt like after a huge flat plain of narrative nothingness the story had soared right off a cliff. The story pacing went from zero to eleven just like that.

If this had been telegraphed somehow, say by Dom and Luna checking in with Greg via their crystall ball and him acting all clueless and happy while Pam was getting increasingly stressed out, I don't think I'd have a problem with it. As it stands, it feels like the relationship between Greg and Pam was essentially meaningless (it's essentially brushed aside almost immediately to focus on Dex). Which I guess it was, but I think it needed a bit more resolution then it deserved. I felt it was a monumental screw up of story-telling really, although it was probably my fault for even caring about Greg and Pam in the first place. Sigh.

* That was meant to be the twist, right?


Yes, but none of this is actually Pam's fault. She's doing the best she can-it isn't her fault that the camera isn't pointed at her.

I like Pam because she made Gregory sad. And that's awesome.

[Trazoi]

Yes, but none of this is actually Pam's fault. She's doing the best she can-it isn't her fault that the camera isn't pointed at her.
Ah yes. This all started by my search for female character that are sane, didn't it? :smallwink:

I'm guessing the monumental failure of that plot point overshadowed that, in the canon universe, it was Greg who was completely derailed and should shoulder the most of the blame. After all, the last we saw of him was at the end of Snowsong, where he made a pledge to return the the humble healer he used to be. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-08-20). Given he's never seen with that staff ever again, it's pretty clear that pledge didn't last long.

Unfortunately I still can't separate Pam from the madness that is the government system in Callan. And I don't think she handled the firing of Dex that well. If that really was the reason she had to fire him, it would have made some more sense to find him another government position, or at least give him a reference. However It seemed pretty clear the notice she got from her superiors was "Be mean to Dex", so I guess she did the best she could.

Anyway, you've made a good argument that Pam should be elevated to "most sane non-Sue female character". I still think Grench is high on the list though. Not that it's difficult given the competition. :smallannoyed:


I like Pam because she made Gregory sad. And that's awesome.
As if that's difficult. All you need to do to make Greg cry is show him a picture of a puppy with only one leg. Or his brother with only one leg, that works too.

[Penquin47]

Jaime can be either male or female. I usually think of it as a girl's name because my best friend in early elementary was a girl named Jaime.

[Garland]

Being from Chile, I'm accustomed to spanish names, so I was intrigued by seeing Jaime used as a female name, too. (My brother is called Jaime, too.)

[Johnny Blade]

Anyway, you've made a good argument that Pam should be elevated to "most sane non-Sue female character". I still think Grench is high on the list though. Not that it's difficult given the competition. :smallannoyed:
Hell, Fire Monkey Lady (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-02-28) probably lands a Top 5 spot in that list. :smallbiggrin:

[Trazoi]

Hell, Fire Monkey Lady (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-02-28) probably lands a Top 5 spot in that list. :smallbiggrin:
Didn't they end up implementing the Fire Monkey Faculty anyway? They stole her idea!

[AgentPaper]

Hell, Fire Monkey Lady (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-02-28) probably lands a Top 5 spot in that list. :smallbiggrin:

I would like to point out that the last panel of that strip is pretty much proof that my "Druggy Deegans" theory is canon.

[Johnny Blade]

Didn't they end up implementing the Fire Monkey Faculty anyway? They stole her idea!
And those were some real gentlemen, too. I think she just wanted to replace that crazy changeling and the even crazier orc with a few rare mutants that you can actually work with while you study them.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Didn't they end up implementing the Fire Monkey Faculty anyway? They stole her idea!
Well, since Fire Monkeys are actually quite erudite (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-03-20), the only reason Miranda was shocked by this progressive idea is because she is racist speciesist against Fire Monkeys. :smallfurious: