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Myatar_Panwar
2009-05-01, 10:59 PM
I am planning a new character to replace my current one for when he inevitably falls to the zombie horde. For a bit of background, I envision him as being very disciplined and honorable. Very strict and uptight. You know the type.

For this character, who I plan on making a sword and board fighter, I would like for him to use his shield for more than an AC bonus. Mostly for bashing, though any other creative uses are fine. If possible, any options which would make it actually better than the sword in some cases, though not all the time. Versatility is what I'm looking for, I guess.

I don't want TWF though. At least I don't think so. I would like to focus on accuracy over damage. Though if you guys could convince me otherwise, then I may change my mind.

So, feat/prestige class/build suggestions?

Also, the class is looking like fighter so I can grab the necessary feats. I actually don't despise the fighter class as much as most. :smallwink:

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-01, 11:06 PM
Crusader(ToB) and Knight(PHBII) both get some benefits from a shield, though generally they just get to guard allies with it.

Keld Denar
2009-05-01, 11:07 PM
Go Warblade. You can do your maneuvers with your shield and don't have to worry about stupid things.

I'd consider a versitile weapon with your offhand then. Something like a Flail for disarming or such. Maybe a net. Yea, shield and net style.

Get a Spiked Shield of Bashing asap, and start upgrading it as a weapon after that. For feats, you'd want Improved Shield Bash and Shield Slam or something like that.

Its not gonna be terribly optimized, but Warblade should be able to overcome most of the shortcomings of what you are trying to do. Maybe consider 2 levels of fighter, depending on starting level, just so you can mash some more feats in the front end to be able to perform your tricks. Warblade1/Fighter2/WarbladeX is pretty common, actually, since this pushes your 2nd stance back till you have an IL of 5 and can take 3rd level stances.

Myatar_Panwar
2009-05-01, 11:13 PM
Ah, I probably should have mentioned that I am planning him for level 8.

Faleldir
2009-05-01, 11:25 PM
If you insist on using a shield, take a feat that applies your shield bonus to your touch AC. There's one in Lords Of Madness and one in Player's Handbook 2.

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-05-01, 11:30 PM
Don't forget that the Bloodstorm PrC will let you go at foes pretty decently Captain America style if you are built for shield use. :smallbiggrin: Keeps you out out of reach of the horde AND will eventually let you clear the room at a range.

RTGoodman
2009-05-01, 11:58 PM
Don't forget that the Bloodstorm PrC will let you go at foes pretty decently Captain America style if you are built for shield use. :smallbiggrin: Keeps you out out of reach of the horde AND will eventually let you clear the room at a range.

Heh, that was my suggestion. Maybe even dual-wield shields, but not TWF with them - one big one for defense and bashing, and another for throwing. Warblade would be a good class for it, going into Bloodstorm Blade for awesome throwing abilities.

Feats would be Improved Shield Bash, Shield Ward (shield bonus applies to Touch AC - PHB2), and maybe some other feats from PHB2 that deal with shields (Shield Specialization, etc.).

riddles
2009-05-02, 02:58 AM
i believe agile shield fighter (phb2) would be of interest to you

Talic
2009-05-02, 03:12 AM
A high Charisma Paladin can do good things with a shield. With Shield Ward, it applies to touch AC.

With another feat, a divine one, you can add your Charisma bonus to it's Shield bonus to AC.

Follow up with any of the several abilities that allow you to add Cha bonus to damage, and improved shield bash.

Granted, 2 weapon fighting can be effective with a shield, but it generally requires a different build than above. Above build has a lot of defensive power, as Cha goes to Touch AC, Saves, etc. I think there's even a feat to make it apply to HP.

Also, if you can get shifted into a Nymph, they also get Cha as a deflection bonus to AC and to saves (so it now applies twice to both).

Eldariel
2009-05-02, 06:04 AM
With another feat, a divine one, you can add your Charisma bonus to it's Shield bonus to AC.

Are you thinking of Divine Shield here? Because it's the only feat that does something like that, but it's pretty bad - standard action to activate, Charisma to shield as a bonus, lasts for Cha rounds. Since it's a standard action to activate and only lasts Cha turns, it's often going to eat up the first round of combat making it meh (especially since as a feat benefit, it's very hard to permanency).

But yeah, I'd go Crusader mayhap with slight dips. If you want Sword & Board, Crusader offers you maneuvers to maintain a respectable Sword-damage and a couple to make more than a bit of good stuff with your shield. Improved Shield Bash, Shield Slam [CWar], mayhap full TWF (with few Fighter/Ranger/Martial Rogue-dips) - you could dualwield Shields if that's what you feel like.

Myatar_Panwar
2009-05-02, 01:36 PM
i believe agile shield fighter (phb2) would be of interest to you

Hrm, if I understand correctly, then this feat replaces all of the TWF base feats? So, I effectively gain full TWF with only 1 feat as long as I attack with a shield?

Or does it only grant one shield bash? But then, what would make it any different from the normal TWF feat?

Darrin
2009-05-02, 03:12 PM
Feats would be Improved Shield Bash, Shield Ward (shield bonus applies to Touch AC - PHB2), and maybe some other feats from PHB2 that deal with shields (Shield Specialization, etc.).

If you're going that route... then you pretty much have to get ahold of Eric's Griffon Shield. Here's a link to a description:

http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3107

VirOath
2009-05-02, 03:14 PM
I'm not sure if this is how it works, but here goes nothing...

Use the Dungeonscape Dungeon Crasher variant, with the feats Improved Shield Bash, Shield Charge, and Shield slam. Since shield slam gives an extra attack with the shield, without stating that you have to attack as part of the charge, you can do this as part of a bullrush charge. First is a Save or Dazed (not a big deal), shield damage, bullrush, Dungeon Crasher damage for slamming into a wall, and finally a trip attack, plus AoO's to come.

Or how I read it anyways.

Make your race Warforged and take up the Warforged Juggernaut PrC for bonus damage from both spikes (which can be enchanted separately from your shield) and the Increased Damage charge feats you get. Add in a level of Warforged Paragon from Homebrew and you get flight at will, letting this not be limited by the ground (Or rather, allowing you to crush flying enemies into the ground... Diving tackle!)

Add in the fact that you'll be using the Lion's shield... It gets a full round attack in addition to you, separate from you using your full base attack bonus. Three times a day, mind you, but you can carry more than one. And have them enchanted as well.

By no means optimized, but actually makes a shield dangerous. And looks really cool. For damage components anyways.

Bluebeard
2009-05-02, 04:04 PM
Or how I read it anyways.

I think you're alone on that one.

Shield slam lets you use its ability as a full round action or as a charge action.
That's different than letting you use its ability when you use a charge action.
(No Bull rushes to activate it, no Pounces when you use it)

You could replicate the effect with Knockback (RoS), though.
That would require a Large race, Half-Giant or Goliath.
Some DMs might let RoF's Jotunbrud work too.

How about this:
Step 1: Take Leadership at level 9.
Step 2: Your cohort Metamorphosizes into a Shield.
...Anywhere you go from there is a winning direction.

Talic
2009-05-02, 04:25 PM
Are you thinking of Divine Shield here? Because it's the only feat that does something like that, but it's pretty bad - standard action to activate, Charisma to shield as a bonus, lasts for Cha rounds. Since it's a standard action to activate and only lasts Cha turns, it's often going to eat up the first round of combat making it meh (especially since as a feat benefit, it's very hard to permanency).

But yeah, I'd go Crusader mayhap with slight dips. If you want Sword & Board, Crusader offers you maneuvers to maintain a respectable Sword-damage and a couple to make more than a bit of good stuff with your shield. Improved Shield Bash, Shield Slam [CWar], mayhap full TWF (with few Fighter/Ranger/Martial Rogue-dips) - you could dualwield Shields if that's what you feel like.

Yes, I was. However, if you get Cha up to +7 or higher, it's effective duration is "one battle". I've seen good ghost builds get it up to +13-15, which is a not insignificant boost.

kentma57
2009-05-02, 04:29 PM
There is a nice feat that gives you a free trip attempt on an enemy after you charge and shield them. Just grab improved trip along with it and get a free attack on him each time you knock him to the floor.
Now to pull this of you to have to charge, so you woun't be able do it on every attack(I would assume) but it does look cool, and makes a great entrance.
Your not the first one to try their hand at this build.

Animefunkmaster
2009-05-02, 05:04 PM
You’re in luck I did something like this as a pregen for last years AX for some players a few levels higher, here is my suggestion for you.

Human (If you can get a flaw a dwarf would be cool):
Barbarian2 (Lion Spiritual Totem, Wolf Totem)/Fighter2/Warblade4
Variants are from Complete Champion and UE

Human: Improved Bullrush (PHB)*
1)Power Attack (PHB)
Barb2) Improved Trip (PHB)
Ftr 1) Improved Shield Bash (PHB)
3) Shield Charge (CW)
Ftr 2)Shield Slam (CW)
6)Shock Trooper (CW)*
*For more defense grab martial study (TOB) shield block and Block Arrows (HoB)

Among other maneuvers he used the following:
Charging Minotaur

What I had for this guy was a +1 valorous long sword (one handed can be used as two handed for power attack and str damage, and keeps hands available for the board) and a Heavy Steel Shield with +1 Brutal Surge (MIC) shield spikes.

Here is how it breaks down.
Sword option:
Charge, Power Attack Full and use your sword as a two hander, pouncing, dropping a foe (generally using this action only to drop a foe). Otherwise we are looking at full round actions with your sword/maneuvers.

Board Option: Use Charging Minotaur, Charge, which sets off shield slam and shield charge which gives you 1 free bullrush attempt (Via Maneuver), 1 free trip attempt, and 1 save or become dazed, if the trip is successful you get to make another attack (talk with dm if this sets off charging minotaur again, the wording of improved trip might), which gives you another chance to daze. All this and you keep your shield AC bonus. You can activate shield slam as a full round action (dazing opponents is fun) and if you gnab brutal surge shield spikes you get a few more chances a day to bulrush.
Note: you do not need to move with your bulrush attempts

This makes you a giant bowling ball, but still has options for further development without going into twf.

Next level should be 5th level warblade and you can pick up Block Arrows (although not optimized, is very handy), and Martial Study Shield Block (just to play more with the shield theme). Otherwise I would try and Flaw those in.

Kris Strife
2009-05-03, 07:23 AM
Get an Animated sheild, use it for a hoverboard.

VirOath
2009-05-03, 07:45 AM
Get an Animated sheild, use it for a hoverboard.

Okay, win.

That even beats using Dwarven Buckler Axes as throwing weapons...

Ok, thanks to inspiration from Kris Strife I got an idea I just have to flesh out.

Simply put, a Throwing Attacker that rides on an Animated Tower Shield, using it as a hoverboard, and throws Dwarven Buckler-Axes. Being a dwarf would allow giving up one of the familiar weapons for it without needing a feat (After all, who actually uses a Dwarven Urgrosh). Make a few of them dancing...

Harperfan7
2009-05-03, 04:27 PM
Defenders of the Faith had two good shield feats if you have access to that book.

riddles
2009-05-04, 12:55 PM
Hrm, if I understand correctly, then this feat replaces all of the TWF base feats? So, I effectively gain full TWF with only 1 feat as long as I attack with a shield?

Or does it only grant one shield bash? But then, what would make it any different from the normal TWF feat?


you only get one shield bash attack but, as i read it, the penalty is -2/-2 regardless of the shield used (light or heavy). it also has no dex requirement, so you can sack dex

Baalthazaq
2009-05-05, 12:18 AM
I agree with getting an animated shield, but I would combine it with any hand and a half weapon.

That way you open yourself up to two styles of combat. Three if you animate the sword too, and give yourself a level of monk or something.

Basically run in, let go of the shield and sword, and let them fight alongside you while you hold the guy down.

Rogue also actually works pretty well, as you can sneak attack with a shield just as well as with a dagger. Quikdraw might also be a neat idea.

Let go of both weapons, take the feat to feint as a move action, then quickdraw and sneak attack the guy before he knows what hit him.

Some of this might need some homebrewing though. There's no given bonus for surprising your opponent like that as far as I know, even though I'd think there should be.

Kris Strife
2009-05-05, 06:46 AM
I agree with getting an animated shield, but I would combine it with any hand and a half weapon.

My first character did this once he could afford it. Animated Heavy Steel Shield and a Bastard Sword. He also tried the hoverboard trick with it when falling, but failed the Dex check.