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View Full Version : [3.5] An Unlikely Request For Cheese



OverWilliam
2009-05-02, 05:26 AM
Ok, so for the two-fold reason of 1) complete boredom on my part and 2) the nearly endless potential for fun in an upcoming game with an Idea I just had, I have decided to open up a new can of worms and see what the GiTP forums can do with it.

Is there any way to cheese all four Acrobatic skills, Climb, Balance, Jump, and Tumble, to the point that any highly unlikely and completely impossible feat of athleticism that I can dream up would become child's play? This is for a very puzzle-oriented game, so combat occurs less frequently, and the other members of the party have already quite efficiently covered the bases as far as ability to kill anything that bleeds, so I am perfectly all right with sacrificing all combat prowess in order to use feats in other, more useful ways.

Ok, so here's what I'm looking for; can we make (or find, if someone cool and awesome has already had the idea and perfected it) a completely broken, 100% unbalanced character that has SHAMELESSLY cheesed those four skills? I will take any class/race combination, but bonus points if it looks inconspicuous at low levels (so I can sneak it past me DM :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:). We are starting at low level, but we expect to be moving up pretty quickly, so it can be at any level, just so long as it works. Also, I should have a decent (read: only slightly above WBL) amount of gold to work with, so go nuts with that too.

Well, there you have it. I have faith in you master cheesecrafters on the boards, so don't let me down! :smalltongue:

Eldariel
2009-05-02, 06:34 AM
*shrug* Factotum 3 for Brains over Brawn, Marshal 1 for Motivate Dexterity, Ur-Priest/Sublime Chord/whatever fast progression caster to get high level magic, UMD+UPD maxed and max ranks in the skills. Then just pimp out your stats, use magic like Divine Insight, Moment of Prescience, etc.

But yeah, Brains over Brawn & Motivate Dexterity mean you get:
Dexterity, Intelligence & Charisma to all your Dex-based skills (you could take few levels or Marshal to gain Motivate Strength too)

Then just get +30 competence items for all of them. Item Familiar could also be used for extra bonuses, but spread out over so many skills it's not too efficient. Shapechange magic to get racial bonuses & stats and size bonuses and you're golden. Really, as long as you've got good casting, you'll be golden.

Starbuck_II
2009-05-02, 08:02 AM
Ok, so for the two-fold reason of 1) complete boredom on my part and 2) the nearly endless potential for fun in an upcoming game with an Idea I just had, I have decided to open up a new can of worms and see what the GiTP forums can do with it.

Is there any way to cheese all four Acrobatic skills, Climb, Balance, Jump, and Tumble, to the point that any highly unlikely and completely impossible feat of athleticism that I can dream up would become child's play? This is for a very puzzle-oriented game, so combat occurs less frequently, and the other members of the party have already quite efficiently covered the bases as far as ability to kill anything that bleeds, so I am perfectly all right with sacrificing all combat prowess in order to use feats in other, more useful ways.


One level of Warlock grants +6 to those skills all day.

Flickerdart
2009-05-02, 08:45 AM
Thri-Keen gets +30 Racial bonus to Jump checks.

Dhavaer
2009-05-02, 09:22 AM
Oriental Adventurers has the ninja spy prestige class, which gives +10/20 to Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble at 3rd/7th level, plus the ability to always take 10 on those skills.

woodenbandman
2009-05-02, 09:25 AM
Oriental Adventurers has the ninja spy prestige class, which gives +10/20 to Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble at 3rd/7th level, plus the ability to always take 10 on those skills.

As well as Blade Dancer (?) for a cool double (?) move speed.

Riffington
2009-05-02, 11:40 AM
Raptorans can fly.

Bulwer
2009-05-02, 11:49 AM
I'd take a level of something psionic for Up the Walls.

Adumbration
2009-05-02, 11:53 AM
For once, I'd suggest Cloud Anchorite prestige class from Frostburn. First of all, it gives you climb speed at the very beginning, as well as +8 to climb checks and the ability to take 10 at all circumstances. Later she gets Wisdom modifier on three of the mentioned skills, as well as the ability to take 10 on them as well. Later you also get extra uses for Concentration (jeah, it's weird), such as walking on water, thin ice and powdery snow. At 10th level you also become immortal to age, which is a nice perk.

sonofzeal
2009-05-02, 12:20 PM
The Shifter race also gets you a climb speed.

Chronos
2009-05-02, 12:26 PM
We can probably get all of these skills up above +100 or so without too much difficulty. The question just becomes, what are we going to do with them once we have them? What can you accomplish with any of these that you can't accomplish with flying, or Spider Climb, or the like?

One suggestion, of course, would be four levels of Exemplar, for the Jumplomancer (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=943738) build. You can do this with any skill, actually... Jump just happens to be the skill that's easiest to twink into the stratosphere.

The Rose Dragon
2009-05-02, 12:35 PM
Jump just happens to be the skill that's easiest to twink into the stratosphere.

Pun intended?

Curmudgeon
2009-05-02, 12:39 PM
The Clerical spell Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) gives +20 to any one skill check. So get a wand of that spell. A single level of Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) will let you use the wand and give you 6 + INT mod. skill points. And you can pick two domains, such as Halfling (Granted Power: Once per day for 10 minutes, you add your Charisma modifier to your Climb, Jump, Move Silently, and Hide checks. Activating this ability is a free action.).

Zaq
2009-05-02, 02:19 PM
Thief-Acrobat, from Complete Adventurer, is on the low end of the cheese scale, but have some very nice movement-based tricks and I believe is one of the earliest (by ECL) ways to be able to take 10 (skill mastery style) on at least some of those checks (I know at least Tumble and Balance, and I believe Climb as well.)

Speaking of tricks, some of the skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel are perfect for the kind of cinematic stuff it sounds like you want to pull.

If you don't mind going psionic, the Elocator (XPH/SRD) has some interesting abilities, and there are some good powers you can take for mobility anyway.

The Scout is a good base class for this, I think, if you want to go nonmagical, since they get huge skill points (as many as the rogue), all the right skills in-class, a bonus to land speed and the ability to ignore terrain, and all that good stuff. Again, low on the cheese scale, but still useful.

To max out Jump, it's good to have as big of a land speed as you can get, so look for classes that give unnamed bonuses to land speed. Barbarian is good, there are a few prestige classes in Complete Champion that do, the Celerity domain gives a bonus on land speed, and so on.

As mentioned earlier, a warlock who dedicates himself (or herself) to movement has a few tricks up their sleeve, with Leaps and Bounds, Spider Climb, and all that.

If you don't mind taking a few minutes to set up, an artificer can get just about the highest skill mods in the game via the infusion (I believe 4th level) that changes the bonus type of an item. So you craft yourself five or six +30 competence items of (for example) Jump, then you use this infusion to change one to circumstance, one to insight, one to morale, one to alchemical, one to luck, and so on. Then they'll all stack, and you're home free with your +huge to your checks. The problem is that infusions are slow, so you have to spend some time preparing before you leap that mountain in a single bound, but if you use some action-point generation cheese you can always use an action point to quicken an infusion down to a standard (or is it full-round?) action, drastically cutting down prep time.

VirOath
2009-05-02, 02:36 PM
Not sure if it's what you are looking for, but Skill tricks with some imagination and sometimes cranked skills work wonders.

dspeyer
2009-05-02, 03:00 PM
Ape-totem Barbarian gets a climb speed (+8 bonus, can take ten, can do anything he likes while climbing). It's not hard to go from that to auto-succeeding on all non-penalized climb checks. And it fits inconspicuously into a melee build.

Wyrmling dragons are very fast and can fly. Most also have at least one other movement form (burrowing, swimming, climbing...). Plus they have elemental immunities, which can be handy (I swim in the river of lava).

The problem is that eventually this is going to all look weak compared to a fly or etherealness spell.

OverWilliam
2009-05-02, 04:20 PM
The idea is indeed to go as non-magical as I can-- I think the +30 items will be swingable, the wand of Guidance of the Avatar perhaps less so, but things like straight up Spider Climb are... Not quite what I'm looking for (various reasons for that one), though I havn't taken them off the table completely.

Also, any idea how much four +30 competence items would cost me?

The Factotum/Marshal build looks good-- getting bonuses from three stats rocks. What would I do for the Strength skills with that build? The suggestion of Scout also fits, and that way I also get skirmish (keeping me from being completely combat useless, though still pretty close :smalltongue:). The Artificer thing is probably pushing it-- I have a feeling the DM would call foul on that one.

Animefunkmaster
2009-05-02, 04:29 PM
Natural Flight?

Spryte in Arcana Unearthed has a no LA tiny tinkerbell like race that gains flight at level 1.

Otherwise anything with flight makes jump/climb/balance useless. Tumble is another story.

endoperez
2009-05-02, 05:42 PM
Up the walls fits the concept perfectly.

Up The Walls [Psionic]

You can run on walls for brief distances.
Prerequisite

Wis 13.
Benefit

While you are psionically focused, you can take part of one of your move actions to traverse a wall or other relatively smooth vertical surface if you begin and end your move on a horizontal surface. The height you can achieve on the wall is limited only by this movement restriction. If you do not end your move on a horizontal surface, you fall prone, taking falling damage as appropriate for your distance above the ground. Treat the wall as a normal floor for the purpose of measuring your movement. Passing from floor to wall or wall to floor costs no movement; you can change surfaces freely. Opponents on the ground can make attacks of opportunity as you move up the wall.
Special

You can take other move actions in conjunction with moving along a wall. For instance, the Spring Attack feat allows you to make an attack from the wall against a foe standing on the ground who is within the area you threaten; however, if you are somehow prevented from completing your move, you fall. Likewise, you could tumble along the wall to avoid attacks of opportunity.

You could ask your DM if you can just ignore the psionic focus. If you can't, you could take a level of Psion.

Pros:
* Bonus feat, which could be Up The Walls
* Take 20 on a concentration check (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/concentration.htm#gainPsionicFocus) every morning, and you can go Up The Walls all you want, until (if) you use a power.
* 2 powerpoints, with 1 or 2 extra if you have high Int. For you, each is a single use of a power.
* Three powers, perhapsSkate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/skate.htm), Float (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/float.htm) and Catfall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/catfall.htm).
* Nomad discipline gives you Burst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/burst.htm) and a power you'd never use. As a Nomad, climb, jump and swim are also class skills.

Cons:
* Only int+2 skill points and have to waste one to get Concentration as trained skill.
* d4 hp, +0 BAB

Still, that's a lot of worrk just for a single feat, so you might be better off asking your DM again.

sonofzeal
2009-05-02, 06:13 PM
Up the walls fits the concept perfectly.

Up The Walls [Psionic]

You can run on walls for brief distances.
Prerequisite

Wis 13.
Benefit

While you are psionically focused, you can take part of one of your move actions to traverse a wall or other relatively smooth vertical surface if you begin and end your move on a horizontal surface. The height you can achieve on the wall is limited only by this movement restriction. If you do not end your move on a horizontal surface, you fall prone, taking falling damage as appropriate for your distance above the ground. Treat the wall as a normal floor for the purpose of measuring your movement. Passing from floor to wall or wall to floor costs no movement; you can change surfaces freely. Opponents on the ground can make attacks of opportunity as you move up the wall.
Special

You can take other move actions in conjunction with moving along a wall. For instance, the Spring Attack feat allows you to make an attack from the wall against a foe standing on the ground who is within the area you threaten; however, if you are somehow prevented from completing your move, you fall. Likewise, you could tumble along the wall to avoid attacks of opportunity.

You could ask your DM if you can just ignore the psionic focus. If you can't, you could take a level of Psion.

Pros:
* Bonus feat, which could be Up The Walls
* Take 20 on a concentration check (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/concentration.htm#gainPsionicFocus) every morning, and you can go Up The Walls all you want, until (if) you use a power.
* 2 powerpoints, with 1 or 2 extra if you have high Int. For you, each is a single use of a power.
* Three powers, perhapsSkate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/skate.htm), Float (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/float.htm) and Catfall (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/catfall.htm).
* Nomad discipline gives you Burst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/burst.htm) and a power you'd never use. As a Nomad, climb, jump and swim are also class skills.

Cons:
* Only int+2 skill points and have to waste one to get Concentration as trained skill.
* d4 hp, +0 BAB

Still, that's a lot of worrk just for a single feat, so you might be better off asking your DM again.
Why Psion and not PsiWar?

Bluebeard
2009-05-02, 06:24 PM
^Or Lurk or Psychic Rogue for better skills?
Or just Xeph for a PP pool and other classes for higher bonuses?
(Most powers and spells can just be UMD/UPD-ed)

A Cloistered Cleric dip could help.
Celerity Domain = +10 untyped Speed (+4 Jump)
Halfling Domain = + Cha to Jump, Balance, Hide & Move Silently for 10 minutes per day.
Spells like Updraft probably wouldn't hurt either.

sonofzeal
2009-05-02, 06:38 PM
^Or Lurk or Psychic Rogue for better skills?
Or just Xeph for a PP pool and other classes for higher bonuses?
(Most powers and spells can just be UMD/UPD-ed)

A Cloistered Cleric dip could help.
Celerity Domain = +10 untyped Speed (+4 Jump)
Halfling Domain = + Cha to Jump, Balance, Hide & Move Silently for 10 minutes per day.
Spells like Updraft probably wouldn't hurt either.
Well the whole point was to get the Up The Walls feat. I don't think Lurk or PsiRogue give you a bonus feat at first level like Psion and PsiWar, although I suppose if he has spare feats then they might be an option.

Flickerdart
2009-05-02, 06:42 PM
You get less PP as a PsyWar and worse powers in exchange for a doubled Hit Die. That's about the only difference the two classes have at level one.