What is in the Darkness?

[DnDgeek13]

In one of the order of the stick books, Rich Burlew says that the Creature in the darkness will be in the DnD 3.5 monster manual.He also says that it is possible to guess. there are certain traits this creature has to have.

-strong
-powerful for Xykon to care
-able to break the ground
-likes stew
-probably medium-ish size


any help to figure out what this thing is or any additions to this list would be helpful.

[Mando Knight]

Its identity is Long Unresolved Mystery #2.
Mystery #1 is V's gender.
Don't remember if Mysteries #3 through http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/e/4/be4c703ed73456618ed283b892c6715a.png have been made yet, though.

[Silverraptor]

In one of the order of the stick books, Rich Burlew says that the Creature in the darkness will be in the DnD 3.5 monster manual.He also says that it is possible to guess. there are certain traits this creature has to have.

-strong
-powerful for Xykon to care
-able to break the ground
-likes stew
-probably medium-ish size


any help to figure out what this thing is or any additions to this list would be helpful.

May you have mercy on your soul with what is about to come. I started a thread just like this and it wasn't pretty.

[shadzar]

Guess I can borrow a copy and guess sometime this week, until then the only thing I KNOW is in the darkness, is a lot of magic missile that was cast upon it. :smalltongue:

[Jural]

Please read the comic more closesly next time... there are two eyes in the darkness. they are yellow, and one is typically bigger than the other.

So, what is in the darkness? At least two eyes. <bites tootise roll pop>

[quick_comment]

Its identity is Long Unresolved Mystery #2.
Mystery #1 is V's gender.
Don't remember if Mysteries #3 through http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/e/4/be4c703ed73456618ed283b892c6715a.png have been made yet, though.

Aleph-null isnt a number, its a cardinality

[Chronos]

In one of the order of the stick books, Rich Burlew says that the Creature in the darkness will be in the DnD 3.5 monster manual.No, he never said that. What he said was that he didn't make it up, and that people would recognize it. But there are a lot of things that Rich Burlew didn't make up that also aren't in any of the D&D books. And there's nothing in any of the D&D books that both matches what we know of the Monster and would be recognizable. Ergo, we know that the Monster in the Dark is not in any Monster Manual.

[shadzar]

Isn't it also odd that it can speak compared to the rest of its kind?

That would eliminate mimic, since they can speak common.

The only other things a phone call revealed to me is that there are only a few things that have not yet appeared in the strip from the 3.5 MM

Shambling Mounds, Slaads, Tarrasque (too small I think), Umber-hulk, and were-things.

I lean towards a talking Shambling Mound because its slam attacks, slow movement speed, eats nasty stuff. (I wouldn't eat Belkar's cooking!)

No, he never said that. What he said was that he didn't make it up, and that people would recognize it. But there are a lot of things that Rich Burlew didn't make up that also aren't in any of the D&D books. And there's nothing in any of the D&D books that both matches what we know of the Monster and would be recognizable. Ergo, we know that the Monster in the Dark is not in any Monster Manual.

:smalleek: Are you saying it is something not form D&D? Cause I have most AD&D monster books and could look through all 30,000 monsters if need be.

I mean the only really scary thing that you would want to keep in the dark so long before revealing it and has an infantile temper tantrum and giggles a lot would be one of the tele-tubbies, and IF that is what :mitd: then please show me the exit for this comic now. Those things nearly give me a heart attack!

[Hatchet]

Also, O-Chul comments how the Monster learns very quickly. Combined with how it seems to have very little common sense, I'd say it has high INT and low WIS. Also, in one of the books they say how unusual it is that the monster can talk, so the base creature has probably low INT as well.

So guessing stats probably won't help guessing it's identity, since it is likely that it is an altered version of whatever it used to be.

Maybe it has a bunch of templates. Someone mentioned the idea that it could be somehow connected to the snarl (and this is why it can't see the gates). Maybe it used to live at Kraagor's Gate at some point, and something happened to it (got Awakened at the very least, hence the INT boost).

Anyway, I wouldn't bet on anyone figuring out the Monster In The Dark's identity before it is revealed. IF it is revealed at all.

[Dagren]

Maybe it has a bunch of templates. Someone mentioned the idea that it could be somehow connected to the snarl (and this is why it can't see the gates). Maybe it used to live at Kraagor's Gate at some point, and something happened to it (got Awakened at the very least, hence the INT boost).It's not just the gates. Remember Xykon's three brothers?

[shadzar]

It's not just the gates. Remember Xykon's three brothers?

Um, those were just monsters summoned/created by Redcloak. eye of Fire and Flame, Death Knight, and another one.

[factotum]

Um, those were just monsters summoned/created by Redcloak. eye of Fire and Flame, Death Knight, and another one.

But the MitD didn't realise that, mainly because it's as dumb as a bushel of bricks. The gag about it not being able to see the gate in Dorukan's Dungeon comes from the same source. (And in any case, since it WAS just a running gag, it can't be used to realistically tie down what the MitD is).

We know one thing for sure: the MitD is *not* part of the Snarl, as many people have theorised. Rich has said in one of the book commentaries that the MitD is from a standard D&D monster book, and furthermore, in Start of Darkness:


The hunters who originally captured it knew what it was, and were surprised it could talk. If it was a piece of the Snarl, how would they know that?

[Hatchet]

Even if it isn't a piece of the snarl, it could have some connection to it. Kraagor's dungeon is supposedly filled with a bunch of tough monsters, and the MitD certainly qualifies for that. Maybe it broke free and wandered around until it got captured again. There is one problem with this idea: it didn't recognise Serini, who was the one who built the dungeon. I guess this could be explained with "something happened to it at the gate, which garbled up it's mind".

Still, we know so little about it that we could go on guessing all day without getting anywhere.

[shadzar]

Yeah, I know I have it written down as the few main things I know about :mitd:

Stomps earthquakes.
Doesn't eat babies.
Unusually able to talk.
Has some sort of slam attack.
Medium-sized.
Not Snarl

Also I have something about it being "not normally found in a rain forest, or unusual to find one there", but not sure where I got that from.

So the gates and brothers proving only how not very INT based :mitd: is aside, it still isn't something that can be narrowed down yet.

I was just saying those 3 were not Xykon's brother, and MAYBE :mitd: would remember it in some oft crazy chance, or it may be brought up again soon if :mitd: is around when V turns up again.

[Equester]

I doubt it is a piece of the snarl, the hunters who catch it clearly knows it's spicies and say they are surprised to find it in a jungle (as far as I remember, the MitD is on a vacation in the jungle).

So from SoD, we know that people in the Oots world know the monster type, it doesn't usually talk and doesn't live in the jungle.
That doesn't really add up with pieces of the snarl or weird templates, especially not when people are supposed the recognise it.

[Laughing Dragon]

Yeah, I know I have it written down as the few main things I know about :mitd:

Stomps earthquakes.
Doesn't eat babies.
Unusually able to talk.
Has some sort of slam attack.
Medium-sized.
Not Snarl

Also I have something about it being "not normally found in a rain forest, or unusual to find one there", but not sure where I got that from.

It seems to me that the number of monsters that CAN stomp earthquakes as a standard ability (the cockroaches knew he could do it even when :mitd: didn't) should narrow the list considerably. Therefore anyone who suggests a monster that can't do that is wasting everyone's time.

As for eating babies ... Xykon tries to feed him children, not babies. Just because :mitd: chooses not to eat them doesn't mean that his "monster type" wouldn't. It could be that Xykon is mistaken however, as :mitd: says that Xykon "feeds" him children because he thinks that it will make him meaner.


Please read the comic more closesly next time... there are two eyes in the darkness. they are yellow, and one is typically bigger than the other.

In case you haven't noticed ... EVERYONE has one eye that is bigger than the other.:smalltongue:

[factotum]

It seems to me that the number of monsters that CAN stomp earthquakes as a standard ability (the cockroaches knew he could do it even when :mitd: didn't) should narrow the list considerably. Therefore anyone who suggests a monster that can't do that is wasting everyone's time.


The ability to create an earthquake may not actually be a "standard ability" of the monster...it might just indicate it's extremely strong (as was shown when it punched both Miko and her horse through the wall of a tower, even when not trying to hit hard). Might also indicate it's extremely heavy for its size.

[CapedLuigiYoshi]

Also, O-Chul comments how the Monster learns very quickly. Combined with how it seems to have very little common sense, I'd say it has high INT and low WIS. Also, in one of the books they say how unusual it is that the monster can talk, so the base creature has probably low INT as well.

So guessing stats probably won't help guessing it's identity, since it is likely that it is an altered version of whatever it used to be.

Maybe it has a bunch of templates. Someone mentioned the idea that it could be somehow connected to the snarl (and this is why it can't see the gates). Maybe it used to live at Kraagor's Gate at some point, and something happened to it (got Awakened at the very least, hence the INT boost).

Anyway, I wouldn't bet on anyone figuring out the Monster In The Dark's identity before it is revealed. IF it is revealed at all.

Except the MitD CAN SEE THE GATES (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0096.html).

And Rich said it will be revealed eventually.

[MickJay]

It's a yeti.

[David Argall]

Rich has said in one of the book commentaries that the MitD is from a standard D&D monster book, and furthermore, in Start of Darkness:


The hunters who originally captured it knew what it was, and were surprised it could talk. If it was a piece of the Snarl, how would they know that?


No, candidates are not limited to D&D monster books. We have been told merely that it is taken from "reality", not something that the writer just made up. One of the Japanese movie monsters has been suggested.
And the hunters merely say the MitD was not from the jungle, not that they actually recognize it. The easy reading is that they do recognize it, but the words are consistent with them having no idea what it is. One way would be a reluctance to admit to not knowing what it is.

[Badgercloak]

Could it be a Giant Space Hamster?

[Istari]

Also from SOD we know that although the hunters recognized it nobody else did, also Xykon mentioned at one point that it was ugly which might help a bit

[Assassin89]

It's a teenager of some monster

[The Blackbird]

Could it be a Giant Space Hamster?

This wins.

In the end MitD will attack the Order, Vaarsuvius will use a spell to shink it, and many years later a random salesman will sell it to a ranger named Minsc. A legend begins!

[shadzar]

Also from SOD we know that although the hunters recognized it nobody else did, also Xykon mentioned at one point that it was ugly which might help a bit

While I know the Order is...age wise...more mature, kids happen to find one moster in particular pretty ugly and scary. So, I think Belkar had it right and we need to look up the AC of the Beast With Two Backs.


Mother, father please believe me every word is true
I just glimpsed a beast with two backs in the morning dew.

[FatJose]

Um, Grey Render? No..they have six eyes... I think we're just going to have to wait and see on this one...Ooh! A shadow mastiff who's afraid of the dark? That would explain why he isn't in his usual environment.

[Lord Seth]

In one of the order of the stick books, Rich Burlew says that the Creature in the darkness will be in the DnD 3.5 monster manual.No. He said that it wasn't something he was completely making up. For all we know, it's a Jabberwock or Bandersnatch. He never said it was in any actual monster manual.

EDIT: To set the record straight, here are his exact words:
"I will say this much: It is possible to guess [the identity of the monster].

That is, it isn't something I just made up for the story. It wouldn't be any fun for the answer to a mystery to be something I invented just for this one purpose, would it? I won't finally throw back the darkness and have someone say, "Look! It was a therblewurkersaurus the entire time!" or some other made-up monster."

No statement that it's an actual Dungeons and Dragons monster, just that someone else somewhere else made up the monster.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Shambling Mounds, Slaads, Tarrasque (too small I think), Umber-hulk, and were-things.

I have no Idea how you got this, but here goes:

Slaads: Belkar has a slaad as one of his "guardian angels".
Umber-hulk: Check the bonus material.

I believe it is a Dungeonbred (x4) Tarrasque. I mean, Dungeonbred is from the Giant's own book...

[xyzzy]

For all we know, it's a Jabberwock or Bandersnatch.

That's a tremendously nice possibility.

The important thing to remember is that it's unlikely to be some obscure monster from a random 3rd-party source book because approximately two people would get enjoyment out of that. Whether it's a baby Godzilla, a Jabberwock or (my personal crackpot theory which will surely turn out to be wildly wrong :smallredface:) a surviving Greek god, it's going to be something that everyone has heard of. I wasn't around back then, but I suspect a large portion of The Giant's readership when Monster-san's identity was decided on wasn't D&D players, just as is true today.

[theMycon]

(my personal crackpot theory which will surely turn out to be wildly wrong :smallredface:) a surviving Greek god.
That was the first thing that came to my head when chronos said "he didn't make it up, and that people would recognize it. But there are a lot of things that Rich Burlew didn't make up that also aren't in any of the D&D books."

My next idea was King Bowser, because it's the most popular videogame I can remember something stomping, and your being stunned for a few seconds.

My next idea was "Yoshi", because I'm not sure who's more recognizable now.

[Chronos]

My next idea was "Yoshi", because I'm not sure who's more recognizable now.Who also has the virtue of being willing and able to eat almost anything (bombs, fireballs, giant moles twice his size, feathers, clods of dirt, centipedes three times as long as him, etc.). Yeah, that could work.

[DnDgeek13]

[QUOTE=Lord Seth;6069879]No. He said that it wasn't something he was completely making up. For all we know, it's a Jabberwock or Bandersnatch. He never said it was in any actual monster manual.

OK I GOT THIS PART ALREADY. MY MISTAKE.

[Jural]

The first thing that came to my mind years ago was an adolescent tarrasque... but now with the umbrella, it's unlikely. Put me in the "I'm gonna have to wait and see" category.

[Elyk80]

It's a yeti.

Its a robot suit piloted by a monkey!!!!

[shadzar]

Dumb question because I am having so much trouble reading the whole thing again to find out, but has this cliche playing out yet and has any cast magic missile into the darkness? Or would that be too corny for OOTS?

[ericgrau]

This monster filter should help if it's in 3.5 MM 1:
http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20monsterfilter/

High CR medium sized monsters didn't turn up much except angels and demons . It could be a youngling of a larger creature. OTOH there were a couple other results like Leonals.

[pendell]

Additional data points worth considering:

A) The MitD has damage reduction. Both Miko and Belkar attacked it with edged weapons, and neither was able to hurt the MiTD at all. Miko recognized it as some kind of damage reduction.

B) The MiTD is immensely strong. It engaged Miko in a game of 'who can hit the lightest'. It's *minimum damage attack* knocked her through a wall.

This implies that it's attack stat is 1D<whatever>+50 or something like. So even if you're deliberately taking a natural 1 on the die roll, the resulting damage is still powerful enough to knock a human through a wall and stun him/her.

Both of these imply that MITD is in some version of a D&D Monster Manual. That's a lot of complex data to homebrew if it wasn't already in the books.

C) The MITD is not evil. O-chul said he didn't believe Monster-san was evil, and Miko didn't even attempt to smite evil when attacking it. So: Neutral or good alignment.

In SOD


The MITD is captured by two big game hunters in a forest. They recognize him , say they didn't know any of these were left, and sell him to a circus.


This implies a couple more things:

D) The MITD is of a recognizable species, not a greek god, human, demihuman, or obvious extraplanar entity.

E) The MITD can be recognized by skilled professionals as being a particular category of creature.

F) Said creature, when encountered by humans, is a creature to be captured and sold, not a god to be worshipped or a fiend to run from.

G) The MITD, when seen plainly, is UGLY with a capital 'U'.

Put all these together, and that's a boatload of clues as to what it is. I've speculated in the past but will not do so here. Good luck with the pieces of the puzzle!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Half-Orc Rage]

I'm guessing there is extradimensional space playing a part, and the creature is much large than the umbrella would indicate. Umbrella of holding, or whatever. Maybe he's a tarrasque. Whatever he is, he will have to be something very impressive, because after years of mystery building it up, he can't just turn out to be a talking umber hulk or something.

[MickJay]

Both of these imply that MITD is in some version of a D&D Monster Manual. That's a lot of complex data to homebrew if it wasn't already in the books.

Not necessarily - if I want to include in my story a powerful and resilient creature, then I don't need to homebrew anything, it's enough for me to indicate these qualities in a clear manner. MitD doesn't even have to have damage resistance - it was only Miko's guess, perhaps MitD has so many hit points that he doesn't feel bad about losing a few. He's very strong, but there's no indication that there's some sort of formula for calculating its attacks. There's absolutely nothing that would definitively indicate MitD can be found in a D&D manual. On the other hand, if Giant wanted to include his own, homebrewed version of some sort of monster, then I'm quite willing to bet that it wouldn't be much of a problem to stat it out and that he wouldn't just settle for picking an existing monster to save time or effort...

[Hatchet]

Maybe we could at least narrow down the creature type. It isn't undead, since it doesn't have a black speech bubble. As others pointed out, some hunters recognised it, so it probably isn't an outsider.

Since it has been described as really ugly, plus it is supposed to be a very scary monster, aberration would seem plausible.

Then again, I believe it is Awakened (see: unnatural intelligence for it's type), and that can only be cast on animals or trees. So maybe it's just some animal with a few templates added to make it tougher than your average base creature.

[Silverraptor]

Dumb question because I am having so much trouble reading the whole thing again to find out, but has this cliche playing out yet and has any cast magic missile into the darkness? Or would that be too corny for OOTS?



Not in Start of Darkness it isn't. They have that corny joke in there.

[xyzzy]

D) The MITD is of a recognizable species, not a greek god, human, demihuman, or obvious extraplanar entity.

E) The MITD can be recognized by skilled professionals as being a particular category of creature.

F) Said creature, when encountered by humans, is a creature to be captured and sold, not a god to be worshipped or a fiend to run from.

The hunters who found Monster-san claimed to recognize it; we don't know that they really did.

Why would they lie, though? It's right there in SoD: "We'll be the talk of the Stereotyped Big Game Hunters lodge for weeks!" Whether they hastily miscategorized Monster-san or one of them is simply lying to boost his own ego, it's clear that these guys are in it for fame, and "we haven't got a clue what this thing is" doesn't sound nearly as impressive as "we found the rare _______ in its natural habitat!"

Also, it's important to remember two things about Monster-san's identity from when Redcloak first meets him; Redcloak says "I know what you are," emphasis mine. First, Redcloak has had almost no interaction with non-goblins during his life, so it's highly probable that he got this information from the Dark One. Second, Monster-san is a what, not a who. Meaning that Monster-san isn't the Tarrasque because there's only one Tarrasque, and anything else that is one-of-a-kind is out of the question. Things like a Godzilla-related monster aren't out of the question because they constitute a group, though.

[pendell]

Also, it's important to remember two things about Monster-san's identity from when Redcloak first meets him; Redcloak says "I know what you are," emphasis mine. First, Redcloak has had almost no interaction with non-goblins during his life, so it's highly probable that he got this information from the Dark One.


Not necessarily. Remember that Redcloak has a working knowledge of chemistry, as we saw in his selection of elementals in the battle of Azure City.

Given this, Redcloak could have obtained the information from schooling. *If* Monster-san is a well enough known creature that big game hunters could recognize it, Redcloak may have encountered it in his biology textbook.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Thajocoth]

The answer to what is in the darkness is thus:

The Monster in the Darkness.

He's totally there... In the darkness...

[xyzzy]

Not necessarily. Remember that Redcloak has a working knowledge of chemistry, as we saw in his selection of elementals in the battle of Azure City.

Given this, Redcloak could have obtained the information from schooling. *If* Monster-san is a well enough known creature that big game hunters could recognize it, Redcloak may have encountered it in his biology textbook.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I've jut figured it out!

Monster-san is ununseptium! :smallbiggrin:

[Masamune]

The first thing that came to my mind years ago was an adolescent tarrasque... but now with the umbrella, it's unlikely. Put me in the "I'm gonna have to wait and see" category.

I have gone thru the monster manual a couple of times to try and filter out possiblities. im not saying he is definately in there but for the sake of arguement, atleast I have a couple theories. ok so what do we know? Xykon and Red cloak know what he is for sure, the monster said so himself to O chul. He said his father was enormous, so he is an adolescent. He was found in the rainforest, when asked about it, he said he had always been there. he has the INT to speak ect ect, but really low WIS. Xykon considers him a powerful weapon and there have been numerous references to his strength. he is ugly. My theory is, that perhaps, he is a Green Dragon. Or possibly an elemental of some type, summoned to that plane long ago in a forest. I would think it would be kinda anti climactic to be a dragon, especially when many have been seen already, however it would make sense. the only thing stopping that is the low WIS score, and that as a chromatic Dragon he would be greedy, angry etc etc etc. He has to be a well recognised figure but something not overly cliche and Im having a hard time trying to figure it out based on the facts from the strips when matched with a Monster Manual.:smallannoyed:

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I have gone thru the monster manual a couple of times to try and filter out possiblities. im not saying he is definately in there but for the sake of arguement, atleast I have a couple theories. ok so what do we know? Xykon and Red cloak know what he is for sure, the monster said so himself to O chul. He said his father was enormous, so he is an adolescent. He was found in the rainforest, when asked about it, he said he had always been there. he has the INT to speak ect ect, but really low WIS. Xykon considers him a powerful weapon and there have been numerous references to his strength. he is ugly. My theory is, that perhaps, he is a Green Dragon.

A young adult amethyst dragon (MM2) is a better fit.

[marquiz]

Ahem, considering what the hunters spoke, methinks an earlier edition monster might be more appropriate?

[Murdim]

I've jut figured it out!

Monster-san is ununseptium! :smallbiggrin:Radioactively stable ununseptium, then ? Otherwise he would have instantly and entirely decayed for a long time.

The question would then be, what could the MitD (or rather the UusEitD, as the case would then be) do against a stable ununoctium elemental ? Provided of course that it is possible to make a noble gas elemental despite their low reactivity.

Maybe we should ask Redcloak about it.

[Dr. Roboto]

It is pitch dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

I mean, really,

> What is a grue?
The grue is a sinister, lurking presence in the dark places of the earth. Its
favorite diet is adventurers, but its insatiable appetite is tempered by its
fear of light. No grue has ever been seen by the light of day, and few have
survived its fearsome jaws to tell the tale.

I mean, rainforests provide lots of canopy cover, and no one really knows the limits of grue power.:mitd: could well be a grue... though that still presents the question of his "big dad". Perhaps a half-dragon grue?

[Dagren]

Radioactively stable ununseptium, then ? Otherwise he would have instantly and entirely decayed for a long time.

The question would then be, what could the MitD (or rather the UusEitD, as the case would then be) do against a stable ununoctium elemental ? Provided of course that it is possible to make a noble gas elemental despite their low reactivity.

Maybe we should ask Redcloak about it.Why would it need to be chemically reactive?

[Kish]

It is pitch dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

I mean, really,

> What is a grue?
The grue is a sinister, lurking presence in the dark places of the earth. Its
favorite diet is adventurers, but its insatiable appetite is tempered by its
fear of light. No grue has ever been seen by the light of day, and few have
survived its fearsome jaws to tell the tale.

I mean, rainforests provide lots of canopy cover, and no one really knows the limits of grue power.:mitd: could well be a grue... though that still presents the question of his "big dad". Perhaps a half-dragon grue?Except he's not afraid of light. Quite the contrary.

[Murdim]

Why would it need to be chemically reactive?Well, I thought it would be hard to make an inert gas elemental when each atom would go on their own way, without any kind of chemical bond to link them and keep them in solid or liquid state. But of course, when I think about it, there's probably the same kind of problem with the canonically existing chlorine elementals, whose atoms would react with each other... but only to form a gas of dichlorine molecules.

[Timberboar]

Magic. It's like the little force writ large.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

In one of the order of the stick books, Rich Burlew says that the Creature in the darkness will be in the DnD 3.5 monster manual.He also says that it is possible to guess. there are certain traits this creature has to have.

Um, no. Rich said it was a monster most people would recognise, which to me eliminates several of the mosters often listed when people start up with the "What is the MitD?" Usually only D&D geeks know what a Tarrasque is, and to be honest, not all of them. I didn't until 3.x came out. I don't remember him from 1st edition, and I mostly skipped 2nd edition. :smallredface:

This also eliminates the "keep stacking templates until we hit our mark" approach as well.

-strong
-powerful for Xykon to care
-able to break the ground
-likes stew
-probably medium-ish size


any help to figure out what this thing is or any additions to this list would be helpful.

So to me, I'd look more at famous monsters that might NOT be in the Mosnter Manual. King Kong, Godzilla, the Blob and other monsters from the 1950's golden age of science fiction might be good choices. I like Minya, son of Godzilla best, but others might fit the bill. Check out "Son of Godzilla" on Hulu.com, and you MIGHT end up agreeing with me.

[Ancalagon]

- It's power seems also to be known (at least to those who know it) (Xykon knows it from TV?).
- It has a MUCH bigger father.
- It seems to have a massive amount of hits and/or DR.
- It's neither inherently evil or good.
- It seems to fit into a certain area of the world.

All those things seem to indicate towards the Godzilla-direction (not that sissy US-Godzilla you can kill with a few missiles at the end of the movie while everyone else missed in the "battles" before).

I also want to see his laser-roar! That'd be great...

[Timberboar]

If we have to look him up on Hulu, he's hardly a monster "people will recognize."

[Ancalagon]

IF it is "the son of godzilla" or something like that... we'll probably get a "godzilla, just reduced in size". The same goes for all "small version of big, known monster" (King Kong/who-or-whatever).

[Dagren]

IF it is "the son of godzilla" or something like that... we'll probably get a "godzilla, just reduced in size". The same goes for all "small version of big, known monster" (King Kong/who-or-whatever).I kind of have a problem with the idea that he'll be a miniature version of some mega monster. Scientifically, yes, shrunk down they would be formidably strong, but intuitively their strength comes from their size, so to many people this would not feel right. It would also go against the D&D rules, which while not completely binding do tend to be followed. (Case in point: A Collosal Great Red Wyrm has a 45 strength, similar to the Tarrasque, but a Medium Red Wyrmling only has 17; strong to be sure, but probably even less than Roy, and certainly a lot less than the MitD seems to show) Of course, this might be the point, but I would doubt it.

[Berserk Monk]

In one of the order of the stick books, Rich Burlew says that the Creature in the darkness will be in the DnD 3.5 monster manual.He also says that it is possible to guess. there are certain traits this creature has to have.

-strong
-powerful for Xykon to care
-able to break the ground
-likes stew
-probably medium-ish size


any help to figure out what this thing is or any additions to this list would be helpful.

You forgot a trait. The MitD has an ability that makes another thread discussing its identity appear every week on the playground forums. I'll check the MM for a creature with that.

[Ancalagon]

You forgot a trait. The MitD has an ability that makes another thread discussing its identity appear every week on the playground forums. I'll check the MM for a creature with that.

It's a feat. Demand Immediate Attention.

You usually want the type of player who wants that away from your table as soon as possible... here it's cute... ;)

[Berserk Monk]

It's a feat. Demand Immediate Attention.

You usually want the type of player who wants that away from your table as soon as possible... here it's cute... ;)

Oh. V must have taken a similar feat too.

[Murdim]

It's a feat. Demand Immediate Attention.

You usually want the type of player who wants that away from your table as soon as possible... here it's cute... ;)Well, it's not that he wants to hide his identity, quite the opposite actually. It's Team Evil who absolutely wants to hide him, like he would disappear if someone ever looked at him...

... wait... ununseptium... not-to-be-seen... radioactive decay... nobody can know about his actual state... Schroedinger's Monster ?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

If we have to look him up on Hulu, he's hardly a monster "people will recognize."

Are you seriously telling me you've never heard of Godzilla? Or you don't think anyone else has? OK, if you're really that young, just think of Reptar from the Rugrats. It's the same guy, with a name change for copyright purposes.

It's just a coincidence that Son of Godzilla is on Hulu's playlist right now.

But by the hints given so far, and especially the last clue given here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0651.html), and the fact that none of the monsters on Monster Island are the same allows the MitD's statement, "I don't even really know what "my kind" is. Not exactly." to fit the theory. While I'm not sure how Redcloak knows, I'd be willing to bet Xykon watches all the Godzilla reruns to root for the monsters, and laugh when the people are terrified before being eaten on the subway or whatever.

But to me, a half-celestial fiendish purple crystal eldeloin baby tarrasque with dragon blood merged with a titanium golem/warforged really, REALLY doesn't sound like a monster most people would recognize.

But Godzilla? Yeah, just about everyone knows him, and the son of Godzilla would be fairly easy to figure out, and is mostly the right size. (I think Minya/Minilla was about 15 feet tall, a bit taller than the MitD.)

[Dr. Roboto]

Except he's not afraid of light. Quite the contrary.
Template? Half-something?

Schroedinger's Monster?
This is made out of awesome and win, with a pinch of cinnamon.

[Forbiddenwar]

Template? Half-something?

This is made out of awesome and win, with a pinch of cinnamon.

Nutmeg, Nutmeg is scarier. or is it parsley?

[Jawsh]

The Big Game Hunters thing leads me to speculate that the thing in the darkness is a bulette.

He does mention that his dad is a lot bigger than he is, has no definite homeland or terrain, and eats a heck of a lot. This suits the description given in the Monstrous Compendium. Also, the MC describes bulettes as having yellowish eyes.

However, being only CR 7 in 3rd edition makes the bulette an unlikely "surprise". Unless of course, the Giant gave him advanced hit dice. Really, there's no base creature in the Monster Manual that fits what we know about the MitD that is also high enough level to challenge the OotS. Pretty much anything is going to need bonus HD or a template, unless it comes from the ELH.

What else? Oh, its size. Well it looks to me like the thing in the darkness actually spent most of its adult life cooped up in a box, so maybe it just couldn't grow to the normal gargantuan size of its father.

[Arcane Hoplite]

I bet it's a baby/young Tarrasque:
a)It eats a lot.
b)Not too smart to pick an alignment.
c)VERY powerful.
d)High AC.
e)His father was enormous and ate a lot.
f)It is kind of ugly...

I would be greatly disappointed if it was a creature from pop media though. Imagine a Teletubby hiding under that umbrella!

[VariaVespasa]

Fools! Its a gazebo! His father was a bandstand! :P

[Itamarcu]

I think it's a Tarrasque/Bulette.

Oh, and BTW, I say rich will reveal it at strip 666.:smallamused:
That could be the end of book 4...

[Jawsh]

I think it's a Tarrasque/Bulette.

Do you mean a half-tarrasque/half-bulette? Yikes!

[Zorack]

Also from SOD we know that although the hunters recognized it nobody else did, also Xykon mentioned at one point that it was ugly which might help a bit

Xykon thinks pretty much everyone else other than him is ugly...

[fishguy]

OotS #368, Last Panel

MitD says "Sometimes I eat to fill the loneliness"
I don't think this is just a throwaway line, I think it is an intentionally placed hint from Mr. Burlew

[Haarkla]

The only other things a phone call revealed to me is that there are only a few things that have not yet appeared in the strip from the 3.5 MM

Shambling Mounds, Slaads, Tarrasque (too small I think), Umber-hulk, and were-things.


Slaad probably do appear in the strip.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0068.html

And were-creatures appear in Start of Darkness.

[Dagren]

Slaad probably do appear in the strip.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0068.html

And were-creatures appear in Start of Darkness. I remember #68, but where does a slaad appear in #435? All I see are the good/evil ones, not the law/chaos ones.

[Haarkla]

It is mentioned, and confirms the creature in #68 is indeed a Slaad.

[Dagren]

It is mentioned, and confirms the creature in #68 is indeed a Slaad.I know, I asked about 435. :smallconfused:

[Random832]

It is mentioned, and confirms the creature in #68 is indeed a Slaad.
What's the law-creature in #68?

[Cestrian]

I remember #68, but where does a slaad appear in #435? All I see are the good/evil ones, not the law/chaos ones.

It doesn't but it is namechecked there. One of the devils says it's just them and the Slaad and the Belkar really doesn't want to see him come out.

[Dagren]

It doesn't but it is namechecked there. One of the devils says it's just them and the Slaad and the Belkar really doesn't want to see him come out.Ah, I see. I hadn't bothered reading the text.

[badam104172]

well, it doesn't have to conform EXACTLY to the monster manual. So, it could be a young tarrasque, as is my opinion.

[RyanM]

What's the law-creature in #68?

Quadrone Modron. Makes sense since Limbo and Mechanus are on opposite sides of the Great Wheel.


Other junk for the list:

It's capable of using a flashlight (hands, tentacles, something?) - #23
It bathes - #103

[UltimatheChosen]

The problem with MitD being a tarrasque is the fact that the tarrasque spends almost all of its time hibernating.

[Kish]

I'd consider the "not sapient" part more of a problem.

[tribble]

While I know the Order is...age wise...more mature, kids happen to find one moster in particular pretty ugly and scary. So, I think Belkar had it right and we need to look up the AC of the Beast With Two Backs.




Oh, you did NOT...

[Arcane Hoplite]

OotS #368, Last Panel

MitD says "Sometimes I eat to fill the loneliness"
I don't think this is just a throwaway line, I think it is an intentionally placed hint from Mr. Burlew

This supports the Tarrasque theory, considering that there is only one Tarrasque on the planet!

[UltimatheChosen]

This supports the Tarrasque theory, considering that there is only one Tarrasque on the planet!
*Sigh*
Besides that fact that he has/had a father.

[TengYt]

Yeah, the MiTD has a father, which means it's a creature that:

a) Has a gender.
b) Can become a parent.
c) Is not one of a kind.

[The Extinguisher]

Yeah, the MiTD has a father, which means it's a creature that:

a) Has a gender.
b) Can become a parent.
c) Is not one of a kind.

Unless the dad is Godzilla.

Man, I'm really liking this Son of Godzilla thing more and more.

[mindsword]

Ahem, considering what the hunters spoke, methinks an earlier edition monster might be more appropriate?

I agree. They mention that they didn't think any were left, correct? Look for a 3rd edition monster that disappeared in 3.5. Can't be second edition or else Dorkarun's amulet would have called it. 1st edition?

[High King Iggy]

Hey Axel. If you like it now, watch this:

http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi3047817497/

The Gargantua is detailed in the AD&D Oriental Adventures book; and, yes that is Minya, the son of Godzilla talking at 48 secs.

[High King Iggy]

Yes mindsword, 1st ed.

[Timberboar]

Are you seriously telling me you've never heard of Godzilla? Or you don't think anyone else has? OK, if you're really that young, just think of Reptar from the Rugrats. It's the same guy, with a name change for copyright purposes.

Hey, great, thanks for the insult. But if you bothered to read the post in the context of the one preceding it you would notice that I wasn't talking about Godzilla, but this "son of Godzilla" Minya character -- who, by the way, looks very little like Godzilla (or well, anything recognizable except perhaps a slightly chubby lizard man).

[Fayd]

Could it be an infant Elder God/Eldritch abomination/thing? I'm thinking the classic Cthulu image, or something crazy along those lines.

But that doesn't fit with everything else stated, but whatever, my 2 gp.

[theinsulabot]

A good man

i do believe that we will, eventially, find out the species of whatever it is, but i think thats the real answer. a reoccuring theme in oots has been not judging someone by there alignment and/or species type. i think the real riddle has never been about MitD species. thats pretty beside the point. the real question is, and always has been, is he really an evil creature who should be hanging out with team evil, or should he have his own chance for redemption

[Dagren]

I kind of have a problem with the idea that he'll be a miniature version of some mega monster. Scientifically, yes, shrunk down they would be formidably strong, but intuitively their strength comes from their size, so to many people this would not feel right. It would also go against the D&D rules, which while not completely binding do tend to be followed. (Case in point: A Collosal Great Red Wyrm has a 45 strength, similar to the Tarrasque, but a Medium Red Wyrmling only has 17; strong to be sure, but probably even less than Roy, and certainly a lot less than the MitD seems to show) Of course, this might be the point, but I would doubt it.I don't normally like quoting myself, but I think this got lost at the bottom of a page.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Hey, great, thanks for the insult. But if you bothered to read the post in the context of the one preceding it you would notice that I wasn't talking about Godzilla, but this "son of Godzilla" Minya character -- who, by the way, looks very little like Godzilla (or well, anything recognizable except perhaps a slightly chubby lizard man).

Hmm... Really. So when you said:

Originally Posted by Timberboar
If we have to look him up on Hulu, he's hardly a monster "people will recognize."
you weren't really trying to insult me? Yeah, I'm not buying today's fake outrage. Maybe next week...

Yeah, I read the message, and the context. Did you read mine for content and context? There are dozens of "Known Monsters" in the Godzilla Universe, with Rodan, Mothra and Mecha-Godzilla the better known ones, while Ghidorah, Anguirus, and Minilla/Minya are more obscure. But almost everyone knows that there are various monsters in the Godzilla movies, that there is more to the series than just Godzilla himself.

So this is why I floated my theory that the MitD might well be one of the more obscure Godzilla Monsters. I saw Godzilla's Revenge when I was about 10-12 and remembered Minilla being a child monster, and about the MitD's size, and about as childish as the MitD.

[Timberboar]

Hmm... Really. So when you said:

you weren't really trying to insult me? Yeah, I'm not buying today's fake outrage. Maybe next week...

I humbly suggest you grow thicker skin and stop looking for insult where none is intended, then. Try as I might, I fail to see how my original post could be construed as an insult. It merely points out a flaw in your logic, using your own words.

Yes, there are dozens of monsters in the Godzilla Universe, but only three who I'd suspect the majority of people would recognize on sight -- Godzilla, Mothra and Gamora.

If it isn't one of the big three (and maybe one or two more, Rodan perhaps), it's not instantly recognizable enough for the Giant's hint to really apply. And a baby version of any of the above, especially if it differs as much from the original as Minya does from Godzilla, would almost certainly be unrecognizable to the average reader.

Now, I'll grant you that OOTS may have a more geeky level of "average reader" than most webcomics...

[SadisticFishing]

Did anyone ever debunk the Umber Hulk theory?

[Arcane Hoplite]

Did anyone ever debunk the Umber Hulk theory?

I doubt it's an Umber Hulk. First of all, they are subterranean species, but let's ignore that, considering that the MitD wasn't even found in it's natural habitat. Secondly, they have 4 eyes, 2 big and 2 tiny, and from what we see MitD has only 2. Also, Umber Hulks are chaotic evil, and our monster is probably True Neutral. Also, a Hulk's favorite pray is a human(according to a website I've read), but the monster doesn't even like human children. So, I find it pretty unlikely to be an umber hulk.

[SadisticFishing]

Except that we know for MANY reasons that this is not a typical version of its kind. In fact, that's virtually all we know, and Umber Hulk fits most of the other details.

Also, Umber Hulks only use their little eyes to see, and the others wouldn't glow at all, being compound.

[Arcane Hoplite]

I still think that the MitD is going to be a more legendary creature than the Umber Hulk. Well, it can be anything. As long as it isn't baby Godzilla or anything from pop media, then I'm content.

[Dork Lord]

Eh, Umber Hulks really aren't considered powerful to characters of higher level. I doubt that's what it is. Maybe a medium sized Tarrasque?

[Dark Matter]

Some times the simple answers are correct.
+Neutral.
+Big father.
+Huge Strength.
+Earth shakes when it puts it's foot down.
+Has a big voice.
+Massively high CR.
+Rich is going to want it to be recognized.

=Godzilla

Ergo it's not a medium sized creature. That umbrella is also a bag of holding.

[Dork Lord]

Some times the simple answers are correct.
+Neutral.
+Big father.
+Huge Strength.
+Earth shakes when it puts it's foot down.
+Has a big voice.
+Massively high CR.
+Rich is going to want it to be recognized.

=Godzilla

Ergo it's not a medium sized creature. That umbrella is also a bag of holding.

That would be... incredibly cheesy and really not in line with the strip imo. I believe it will be something from D&D.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

That would be... incredibly cheesy and really not in line with the strip imo. I believe it will be something from D&D.

Maybe... But while most people know about D&D, not everyone knows all the different monsters, or the rules for stacking templates on top of templates.

So if Rich wants to stick with a monster most people who may not be familiar with D&D specific monsters (the Tarrasque, Umber Hulks, Rust Monsters, Beholders, Squid Thingys, or a purple half dragon/crystal golem/mini-tarrasque merged with two kobolds and a ellertron), it's going to have to be a culturally familiar monster (dragon, vampire, goblin, kraken, levithian) or something from pop-culture (Godzilla, King Kong, the 50 Foot Tall Woman, or one of their offspring).

While I'm a big fan of the MitD being Minya/Minilla from the Godzilla franchise, it might not be the one from the movies (meaning a baby Godzilla/child Godzilla), but might be a teenaged Godzilla who still hasn't gone through a growth spurt as yet.

The strip does have several "Our World" refernces, from Best Buy (Quest Buy), to Goblin Dan's Hydra Hut (Kentucly Fried Chicken) to modern hiring practices (Tsukiko filling out forms for a job with Team Evil), so I don't think it's that much of a stretch for the MitD to be a movie monster of some sort.

Just not the rancor from Star Wars, please!

[Lord_Drayakir]

I dunno... it can technically be a Dragon, can it not?

I mean, it's got the damage reduction, the SR, the "eats a lot," pretty damn strong, and so on.

The only thing is that a dragon is normally not considered ugly- you know, when you see a dragon, you don't go "Oh my gods, that's HIDEOUS!" You go, dependent on level "RUN!" or "CHARGE! I've been needing a new suit of armor anyway."

But yeah. A wyrmling dragon, maybe even a Red/Blue/White (not black, because Blacks are at home in a rainforest), and one that is TN, instead of the usual -E.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I dunno... it can technically be a Dragon, can it not?

I mean, it's got the damage reduction, the SR, the "eats a lot," pretty damn strong, and so on.

The only thing is that a dragon is normally not considered ugly- you know, when you see a dragon, you don't go "Oh my gods, that's HIDEOUS!" You go, dependent on level "RUN!" or "CHARGE! I've been needing a new suit of armor anyway."

But yeah. A wyrmling dragon, maybe even a Red/Blue/White (not black, because Blacks are at home in a rainforest), and one that is TN, instead of the usual -E.

Try a young adult amthyst dragon. Strange enough. Sonic attack. Stomp ability. Eats anythings. And other things...

[Gorbash]

An adolescent Goristro?

They're usually stupid, but this one's smart

They can stomp and create localized earthquakes.

They're strong and their slam attacks are counted as two-handed (emphasizing their great strength).

They have damage reduction.

[Dark Matter]

Try a young adult amthyst dragon. Strange enough. Sonic attack. Stomp ability. Eats anythings. And other things...Dragons are known to talk.
Dragons have a pre-set alignment (and Xykon would kill a good dragon).
Dragons aren't ugly.
Also it's unlikely that a young adult dragon would have the kind of insane CR that the MitD needs.

[Almaseti]

If MitD is from outside of D&D, it would make sense that Xykon and Redcloak are trying to hide him from view. We've seen multiple (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0032.html) cases (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html) of copyrighted characters being removed from the comic. Xykon obviously doesn't want this to happen to his secret weapon. So they hide it!

[Ulrichomega]

Am I the only one who doesn't want to find out what the MitD is? I like the mystery of there being something that we don't know what it is. Kind of like V's gender. If we find out, then half of the fun of reading comics with the MitD is gone!

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Dragons are known to talk.

And this one talks.

Dragons have a pre-set alignment (and Xykon would kill a good dragon).

And amethyst dragons are neutral. Now the MitD is described by O-Chul as a "good man", but the MitD also thinks Xykon and Redcloak are his friends and he does not object much to what they ask him to do even if it means eating Haley and Belkar. He does draw the line at eating babies.


Dragons aren't ugly.

Eye of the beholder.


Also it's unlikely that a young adult dragon would have the kind of insane CR that the MitD needs.
I don't think the MitD has such insanely CR. When Xykon retakes his dungeon in 191, Xykon does not imply, at least not to me, that the MitD is the strongest of the three. Xykon only says that the MitD is not scarier than anything that might be encountered (and arguably the scariest thing was a silver dragon). And to me, Xykon just wanted to use the MitD to crush the order back in the original arc because he was bored. Given how easily the young adult black dragon was defeating the order even after they had leveled, we don't need the MitD to be much higher CR than the CR of a young adult black dragon to defeat the order. In fact, Xykon just needs the MitD to be just tough enough to take out Redcloak quickly. And given that the young adult black dragon swallowed Haley whole, it's not hard to imagine the MitD doing something similar.

However, the battle with Miko may mean the MitD does have insanely high Str and DR. If so that may rule out a young adult dragon.

But on the plus side, amethyst dragons are psionic which might explain some other things. For ex, just how did the MitD place the stone in the game of go in panel 3 of 651?


Am I the only one who doesn't want to find out what the MitD is? I like the mystery of there being something that we don't know what it is. Kind of like V's gender. If we find out, then half of the fun of reading comics with the MitD is gone!
Just because I speculate on what it is, does not mean I want the secret revealed. Part of enjoying the mystery is trying to figure it out. If I am right when the MitD is revealed, that's great. If I am wrong, even better!

[sam79]

Am I the only one who doesn't want to find out what the MitD is? I like the mystery of there being something that we don't know what it is. Kind of like V's gender. If we find out, then half of the fun of reading comics with the MitD is gone!

No, I agree with you. I think that the mystery has gone on so long now, that almost any reveal will be anti-climatic. I'm happy to be kept in the dark on this one.

As for V's gender, there is never likely to be a need for it to be revealed in terms of the plot; therefore it won;t be, in my opinion. Its seems to me that the author is enjoying the ambiguity.

[Thajocoth]

Just a minor note on the "Son of Godzilla" theory... Tagged for easy skipping by those who could care less:

The only Godzilla character I, personally, have heard of prior to reading this thread is Godzilla. And technically I think I've heard the word Mothra before but didn't know that it was a Godzilla character or even a name. I used to be under the impression that it was just one story of Godzilla destroying Tokyo that was remade once or twice. Monster movies are just not really my thing. So if the public recognizing MitD is a major point, I'd rule out all of those monsters. But he could easily have meant that most monster buffs would recognize him, in which case it becomes a possibility again.

[Dark Matter]

And this one talks.That's my point. Dragons talk, but whatever MitD is, it was a total shock to the guys who caught him that he could talk.

Whatever his base creature is, it either can't talk or isn't known too.


And amethyst dragons are neutral. Now the MitD is described by O-Chul as a "good man", but the MitD also thinks Xykon and Redcloak are his friends and he does not object much to what they ask him to do even if it means eating Haley and Belkar. He does draw the line at eating babies.I'm very comfortable calling MitD "neutral". I hadn't realized that Amethyst dragons were too.


Eye of the beholder.Xykon I'll give you. All the other humans who have seen it I won't.


I don't think the MitD has such insanely CR. When Xykon retakes his dungeon in 191, Xykon does not imply, at least not to me, that the MitD is the strongest of the three. Xykon only says that the MitD is not scarier than anything that might be encountered (and arguably the scariest thing was a silver dragon). And to me, Xykon just wanted to use the MitD to crush the order back in the original arc because he was bored. Given how easily the young adult black dragon was defeating the order even after they had leveled, we don't need the MitD to be much higher CR than the CR of a young adult black dragon to defeat the order.Belkar and Miko couldn't hurt it with it just standing there taking the attacks. Xykon indicated that he thought it would trash the entire order and/or anything they might face when he retook his castle. And for all his frustration in dealing with MitD, Xykon treats it pretty well (i.e. he doesn't try to kill or hurt it). Or put differently, this thing hits the radar as an epic level monster.


However, the battle with Miko may mean the MitD does have insanely high Str and DR. If so that may rule out a young adult dragon.Agreed.


But on the plus side, amethyst dragons are psionic which might explain some other things. For ex, just how did the MitD place the stone in the game of go in panel 3 of 651?How smart are Amethyst dragons?

And BTW, the way it probably won was simple, it'd be the same way my young children beat me more than half the time.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Belkar and Miko couldn't hurt it with it just standing there taking the attacks.

Natural AC, DR augmented by feat or template, artistic license...it's not a perfect match I grant you.



Xykon indicated that he thought it would trash the entire order and/or anything they might face when he retook his castle.

No. In 191, Xykon just told the MitD that there's nothing scarier in the castle than it and that no random monster could defeat all three of them. What that means in terms of CR is not clear. As I said, the young adult balck dragon was doing pretty good against the order, V or no V, and that was after the order leveled by defeating Xykon. So we can imagine that a young adult dragon would have mopped the floor with the order when they were 11th level or so.



And for all his frustration in dealing with MitD, Xykon treats it pretty well (i.e. he doesn't try to kill or hurt it). Or put differently, this thing hits the radar as an epic level monster.

Well there is spoilered Start of Darkness reason for that. [spolier]Xykon has put an effect on the MitD which will make him eat Redcloak and spit our the phylactery if ever Redcloak turns on Xykon.[/quote]



How smart are Amethyst dragons?

As smart as your average dragon.



And BTW, the way it probably won was simple, it'd be the same way my young children beat me more than half the time.
Won? From what I gathered, the MitD (the player with the black stones) was losing. What I meant was, how did the MitD place a stone on the game board, to make his move, from within the box in panel 3 of 651? There are some possibilities:

1. The MitD used an appendage through the box window, to the left and off panel.

2. The MitD used an appendage through some opening under the box, below and off panel.

3. A demon roach placed the stone for the MitD with the MitD directing it in some non-verbal way.

4. The MitD placed the stone from a distance through some magical or psionic means.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

No, he never said that. What he said was that he didn't make it up, and that people would recognize it. But there are a lot of things that Rich Burlew didn't make up that also aren't in any of the D&D books. And there's nothing in any of the D&D books that both matches what we know of the Monster and would be recognizable. Ergo, we know that the Monster in the Dark is not in any Monster Manual.

...so it's a dementor?

The only monsters I can think of that aren't in D&D and that are well known are all from Harry Potter. :smallannoyed: I have no idea what it is but I hope we find out soon.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

As smart as your average dragon.


Won? From what I gathered, the MitD (the player with the black stones) was losing. What I meant was, how did the MitD place a stone on the game board, to make his move, from within the box in panel 3 of 651? There are some possibilities:

1. The MitD used an appendage through the box window, to the left and off panel.

2. The MitD used an appendage through some opening under the box, below and off panel.

3. A demon roach placed the stone for the MitD with the MitD directing it in some non-verbal way.

4. The MitD placed the stone from a distance through some magical or psionic means.

I just assumed that MitD was giving O-Chul instructions off-pannel. Huh.

[warrl]

As smart as your average dragon.


Won? From what I gathered, the MitD (the player with the black stones) was losing. What I meant was, how did the MitD place a stone on the game board, to make his move, from within the box in panel 3 of 651? There are some possibilities:

1. The MitD used an appendage through the box window, to the left and off panel.

2. The MitD used an appendage through some opening under the box, below and off panel.

3. A demon roach placed the stone for the MitD with the MitD directing it in some non-verbal way.

4. The MitD placed the stone from a distance through some magical or psionic means.
5. A demon roach placed the stone for the MiTD with the MiTD directing it verbally off-panel.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I just assumed that MitD was giving O-Chul instructions off-pannel. Huh.


5. A demon roach placed the stone for the MiTD with the MiTD directing it verbally off-panel.

It was a pretty smooth 3 panel sequence as defined by the dialog. That is, there is no gap in the dialog.

The MitD (and O-Chul) each call "Your move" when they make a move. Now this isn't necessary when you're playing because you can see the move the other guy makes. So this is more of a way to present an ongoing game in comic. Still, it's a little hard to believe that the the MitD said off panel, "Put the the stone there for me." and then "Your move." Well OK maybe the MitD would do that...

And though I'm not that good a go player, I wouldn't think it would be that easy to call out go in say algebraic notation (each row is a-t, each column is 1-16). Well maybe with practice...

[Dark Matter]

Natural AC, DR augmented by feat or template, artistic license...it's not a perfect match I grant you.Very not perfect.


No. In 191, Xykon just told the MitD that there's nothing scarier in the castle than it and that no random monster could defeat all three of them. What that means in terms of CR is not clear.True, but the strong implication is that MitD is on a par with X himself, or at the very least that he's potentially a lot more dangerous that RC.

Look at how X treats RC, then look how he treats MitD. On several occasions, especially in Start of Darkness, X has tormented and put RC to physiological torment. MitD, with his mental short comings, should be an obvious target... but we never see X try anything like that.

If RC turned on him, X could just slap him down (notice how much nicer X was when he didn't have a body and RC had the upper hand). MitD on the other hand isn't treated like this.

Again, the impression is that MitD is epic.


As smart as your average dragon.Which is to say, MUCH smarter than MitD... and MitD is apparently a genius for his race (because he can talk).

[shadzar]

I haven't seen it said yet, but someone has to answer it like this as to what is in the darkness....

In the velvet darkness
Of the blackest night
Burning bright
There's a guiding star
No matter what or who you are

There's a light

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Very not perfect.And your guess is better?



True, but the strong implication is that MitD is on a par with X himself, or at the very least that he's potentially a lot more dangerous that RC.

That's your take. My take is that the MitD is considered by Xykon able (amusigly so) to defeat the order at 11th level and is able (SoD spoile to take swallow up RC if needed. I don't take either or Xykon's or RC's statements to imply that the MitD is as high a CR as Xykon.


Look at how X treats RC, then look how he treats MitD. On several occasions, especially in Start of Darkness, X has tormented and put RC to physiological torment. MitD, with his mental short comings, should be an obvious target... but we never see X try anything like that.

The running gag is that the MitD is too thick to have any psychology work on him. For ex, in recent strips O-Chul tries to turn the MitD towards good. The MitD is not portrayed as being unable to carry on the conversation with O-Chul but rather as being resistant to change. Similarly, the MitD describes his resistance to X and RC's attempts to make the MitD more evil.



If RC turned on him, X could just slap him down (notice how much nicer X was when he didn't have a body and RC had the upper hand). MitD on the other hand isn't treated like this.

X does not trust that RC would not turn on him when X was at a disadvantage. That is part of the reason that X keeps the MitD around becase (SoD spoiler) X has enspelled the MitD to swallow RC whole should RC turn on X.

As for how the MitD is treated, you have your take on it but I tend to agree with O-Chul, the MitD is abused. He is forced to stay in a box. He is insulted to his face. And often X and RC speak of the MitD in the 3rd person even if he is present. I would not characterize any of this as X treading lightly around the MitD.



Which is to say, MUCH smarter than MitD... and MitD is apparently a genius for his race (because he can talk).
One, official Int scores are only average scores. You can change the scores. Two, a high Int score does not imply that the character will always make the best choice. For ex, V has a high Int score but recently made some very bad choices. And Belkar and Elan have been shown to be clever despite having low Int scores. Third, speaking has little relationship to Int score in D&D.

Now it's very easy to knock down guesses. I think the guess that the MitD is a young amethyst dragon is a good one. It is not a 100% chance with everything we know about the MitD but it matches on many points. I do not claim the MitD must be a young amethyst dragon. If you want to debate how well the guess that the MitD is a young amethyst dragon matches with what is shown in comic, be my guest. Now if you have a guess as to what the MitD is, I would prefer to hear about that.

[Sendal]

Personaly, I think it will either be a DnD monster, or something mythological (think Kapa, Minataur, centaur etc.) Notably many mosters qualify for both, as the writers of the monster manuals often draw inspiration from real world myths.

If it was one of these monsters even non-players would recognise it.

I think it is interesting that it said its father was huge, not its parents. This leads me to believe it may be a halfbreed of some kind. Perhaps a half giant or something. On the otherhand, a halfbreed would be difficult to recognise because they are obviously uncommon, so this may not be so likely.

I think you're all moving too far outside the box with your speculations. Presumably the giant wants to at some point have it step out of the darkenss, and have the entire readership kick themselves because its so obvious. A dragon is well known. An amythist dragon is not, if it is neccisary for it to be that specific for it to work, I would say its too obscure.

If you need to own a splatbook to know about it, I don't think its going to be it. I like the Bulette idea. Though its specific to DnD players, at least most of them will recognise it. Old editions are also fair game I would say, only because of the comment that "I thought there were none of these left"

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I was just thinking if, for some reason, the MitD was psionic, then Time Hop, a 3rd level power, might fit what happened in 661. Now we we have to wait and see what did happen but, you know, adult amethyst dragon is a 5th level kineticist.

[Dire Platypus]

You guys are just wrong.It's obvious that the mitd is a togepi.


(Seriously, I liked the Noble Djinn theory, but it should be less.. naive?)

[shadzar]

The baatezu wish to fulfill their ancient quest to destroy the tanar'ri, their blood enemies. The baatezu also know that by infiltrating humans and entering their world they will gain power over the tanar'ri. Toward this end they constantly strive to dominate the Prime Material plane and its natives.

Pit Fiend:

They can, once per year, cast a wish spell.

Copyright 1999 TSR Inc.


Fear Aura

~~~

Once per year a pit fiend can use wish as the spell (caster level 20th)

:smallconfused:

[quick_comment]

Its not an amythyst dragon. Most DnD players, let alone most people would have no clue what it is.

I like the idea that its a surviving Greek god (with amnesia from the snarl's assault, obviously), but I dont see how the hunters would recognize it, know that it had a father who was larger, or assume it couldnt speak. The mitd might have been appearing as something else though, so the hunters could be wrong. When redcloak said "I know what you are" he might have been saying not "I know what creature you are, despite being so strange" but instead "Despite your shape, I know what you really are"

It cant be a pit fiend, pit fiends speak. How else would they tempt people?

I doubt its anything psionic. The only mentions of psionics have been throwaway gags.

I also doubt its some templated creature. He said people would recognize it. I have never heard of a myth involving a half-dragon half-clay golem half-illithid phrenic dragon.

[Ellye]

I like the idea that its a surviving Greek god (with amnesia from the snarl's assault, obviously), but I dont see how the hunters would recognize it, know that it had a father who was larger, or assume it couldnt speak.Remember that Greek Gods like to assume animal forms. It might very well be a giant golden boar avatar or something like that.

[quick_comment]

Remember that Greek Gods like to assume animal forms. It might very well be a giant golden boar avatar or something like that.


Thats very true, which would explain why the hunters were suprised it could speak, and also why they were suprised to find it in the jungle.

Zeus shapechanged into a swan would be really strange to find in a jungle.

It also gives us a nice symmetry at the end - the snarl began with the slaying of the greek pantheon, and at the end, the king of the pantheon sacrifices himself to end the snarl

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Its not an amythyst dragon. Most DnD players, let alone most people would have no clue what it is.

Perfect!



I like the idea that its a surviving Greek god (with amnesia from the snarl's assault, obviously)

Obviously.


I doubt its anything psionic. The only mentions of psionics have been throwaway gags.
But everything in OotS is a gag.

[The Extinguisher]

You guys are just wrong.It's obvious that the mitd is a togepi.


This. I'm calling it right now.

[shadzar]

Thats very true, which would explain why the hunters were suprised it could speak, and also why they were suprised to find it in the jungle.

Zeus shapechanged into a swan would be really strange to find in a jungle.

It also gives us a nice symmetry at the end - the snarl began with the slaying of the greek pantheon, and at the end, the king of the pantheon sacrifices himself to end the snarl


How about going it a step further and one that was used in DragonLance and Cronos was MitD's father. This could even allow him to be Hades or Poseidon.

In Roman mythology, Hades/Pluto was called Dis Pater and Orcus.

:smalleek:

[quick_comment]

Perfect!


Except not. Rich has said people will recognize it.


But everything in OotS is a gag.

No. It would be abysmal storytelling to have some secret thing be something never at all foreshadowed or hinted at. It would be like at the end, the big reveal is that Hinjo is the Snarl, Miko was really xykon in disguise and Roy is an illusion created by Varsuvius. It would make no sense.

[BobVosh]

And though I'm not that good a go player, I wouldn't think it would be that easy to call out go in say algebraic notation (each row is a-t, each column is 1-16). Well maybe with practice...

I play go fairly regularly. It is easy to call out the position by numbers. Also a go board is 19x19.

People do it in chess easily as well.

Also I like to think the MitD has a high Int (relative to its relatives kind) but a low wisdom. Which definitly helps him miss all those spot checks.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I play go fairly regularly. It is easy to call out the position by numbers. Also a go board is 19x19.

People do it in chess easily as well.

I'll take your word for it. In chess I use algebraic for calling out moves all the time but being new to go i wasn't sure if this was done.

Still, the three panel sequence in 651 was smooth and continous. Of course you can explain the MitD's move in panel 3 by any off-panel explanation. One can surmise that the method of making the move is kept off panel to prevent a reveal (in the case of a physical move off-panel) or for simplicity (in the case of calling out the moves algebraically). But then it brings up the issue of the box itself (or why the MitD is in it).

For most of the time that the MitD has been with X and RC it was not in a box. The character was displayed as being in some patch of darkness, whether that was in an alcove, a cave or under a Hello Kitty umbrella. And when the MitD had to manipulate something, the object was simply seen to hang in the darkness, as if grabbed by an unseen hand.

Something similar might have been done here. For ex, in panel 1 of 651, O-Chul is with stone in hand. I know you're thinking a black stone against a the darkness could not be seen. But there are many ways to display the ability to place a stone, say by having a bowl filled with stones next to an MitD who is not inside a box. And I know you are thinking that I am over analyzing. But the author himself made some effort to display in panel that a game was being played as opposed to just presenting a go board in front of the players. For ex, the players alternately stated "Your move" and O-Chul is shown with stone in hand.

Yet when we get to the MitD's move, we get a "close up" of the MitD in the window in the box in panel 3 of 651. I don't know about you but this zoom in to the panel only draws my attention to what is happening off panel...whatever that was.

[olthar]

lets see... taking the list of things we know about the MitD:

Stomps earthquakes.
Doesn't eat babies.
Unusually able to talk.
Has some sort of slam attack.
Medium-sized.
Not Snarl
Ugly
Low wisdom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0096.html)
says kind of crazy things (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0103.html)
Likes being in the limelight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0194.html)


It's pretty clear what it is...
It is Michael Moore (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Michael_moore.jpg)

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Doesn't eat babies.

Well that rules out your guess that it's Michael Moore :)

[shadzar]

lets see... taking the list of things we know about the MitD:

Stomps earthquakes.
Doesn't eat babies.
Unusually able to talk.
Has some sort of slam attack.
Medium-sized.
Not Snarl
Ugly
Low wisdom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0096.html)
says kind of crazy things (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0103.html)
Likes being in the limelight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0194.html)


It's pretty clear what it is...
It is Michael Moore (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Michael_moore.jpg)

:smallconfused: That could also be Rip Taylor (http://www.riptaylor.com/bio.htm)

[Limos]

There are lots of monsters that can cast spells without training right? Like Rakasha get to cast spells as a sorcerer of X level, can't remember the number.

Whatever monster he is must have innate spellcasting, which would be how the monster teleported O'chul and V out of there. It can't be that he has class levels or he would have been aware of what he was doing.

[Jural]

I got nothing now! But what happened with the teleport is either one of three things:

1) Not attributed to the Monster in the Darkness (good timing of another entity)
2) An innate, but previously unknown ability of the MitD
3) the result of a wish spell (which may also be in effect due to 2) above.

I was thinking tarrasque was on the right track, but now I'm doubting it. Amethyst Dragon seems to out there. The Greek god thing has potential, but it's a stretch. I haven't heard a great answer yet...

[HamsterOfTheGod]

There are lots of monsters that can cast spells without training right? Like Rakasha get to cast spells as a sorcerer of X level, can't remember the number.

Whatever monster he is must have innate spellcasting, which would be how the monster teleported O'chul and V out of there. It can't be that he has class levels or he would have been aware of what he was doing.

Er...problem is teleport (or dimension door) are usually ranged as touch (or personal in the case of most teleport SLA's like Quarr).

So the if the MiTD has teleport it is a (non touch) ranged group teleport as an SLA.

The Crypt Thing (from 1st and 2nd ed, not sure if converted to 3rd) with its ranged group teleport attack is a notable exception.

[SPoD]

Remember that Greek Gods like to assume animal forms. It might very well be a giant golden boar avatar or something like that.

In Start of Darkness, Xykon enchants the MitD with a spell to turn on Redcloak if Redcloak turns on Xykon. If the MitD was a god, that would never work.

[Astro]

Guys, I think it's obvious that the Giant is building up to the big reveal in 5 more strips. Perhaps we should be speaking of the BitD, not MitD, as #666 will indeed belong to the Beast.

[Trouvere]

Something with 15 HD or more and the phrenic template.

[strategy]

I've seen this guess elsewhere, and it seems to checks almost all the right marks:


An Abomination (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Abomination)

- Appearance (unwanted and unloved)
- High damage reduction (or natural armor)
- High strength (even a small abomination can have 26-27 strength)
- Spell-like abilities (pretty much anything the GM wants)

The only part that doesn't fit (admittedly a big one), is that an abomination is supposed to have immunity to charm/mind-altering spells... and we have seen the MiTD being enspelled by Xykon.

[LocoPojo]

The guess that's surfaced isn't mine, but I'll do the work of proofing it out because it is, in my opinion, a perfect fit, and I'll stand by it until the reveal (unless something else surfaces that clearly does not coincide). This is my final answer, checked against everything we are certain of so far.

It is:


A Zodar (http://lost.spelljammer.org/ShatteredFractine/critters/monsters/zodar.html).

Let's go down the list, using the MITD - What We Know thread as our key.
1) Creature type not normally found in a Rain forest (From SoD)
Terrain type - Any meets the standard requirement.
2) Creature cannot normally talk *or* cannot normally speak Common (From SoD)
Zodar's cannot speak, only magically emanate a speech three times in their lifetime (which they save for only very important occasions). This one clearly has the ability to talk somehow, which is part of why it's personality diverges from the lineup (but there's more)
3) Has DR that is not overcome by Slashing damage (From the 'game' with Miko)
A Zodar has 17 natural armor in the form of solid platemail. Any attack that fails will look like Miko and Belkar's fails because it fails against the natural armor, not dex (dodge) or deflection bonuses tacked on top of your standard 10. Also it's got a lot of HP... a lot a lot.
4) Has either incredibly high strength or some other similar means of hurling someone a large distance by "An Attack" (From the 'game' with Miko)
A Zodar has 45 strength and can lift and throw ship masts like spears. They don't normally punch things, but a friendly game of "who can hit the lightest" would turn out exactly like that.
5) Likely has a quite high CR (Redcloak has commented that it could easily escape) - note.
Yes.
6) Is not immune to Mind Affecting spells (SoD - Xykon enchanted it to eat Redcloak if he betrays him)
The man who guessed this assumed that Zodars were constructs - however, the description posts them as humanoid creatures with plate-like exoskeletons. They're certainly intelligent, if fairly single-minded, and thus capable of being affected.
7) Has some kind of undefined ability to make others disappear (Comic 661). Possible Effects are:
- Teleport Other
- Time-Hop (Psionic ability)
- Plane-shift others
- Ability to make others Ethereal
- Wish, Limited Wish or Miracle (duplicate any of the above abilities)
- Salient Divine Ability capable of duplicating the above
The psionic ability theory is weak tea considering that Redcloak, who has knowledge of the monster, doesn't know psionics exist until far later in the plotline. Any spell other than a Wish or Limited Wish also pales due to the fact that spells in OOTS with verbal components are commonly spoken as they are cast. A spell-like ability, however, would manifest differently, and a wish spell-like-ability would manifest exactly as it looks in the latest comic - the target wishes, and it is so. Zodars can supposedly manifest any spell they like three times in their lifetime, but I prefer to think that this particular wish is the once-in-a-lifetime variety - it makes looking back on that comic more dramatic, not less, and it makes the escape hard-earned, not a deus ex machina.
8) Has two eyes in the usual one-beside-the-other configuration. It may only have two, or it may have more in other locations (eyes in the back of your head?)
This is my favorite. A Zodar looks like a flat black suit of armor, save for two slits that serve as eyes. Not only is this a perfect description of the monster from everything we know about it, it also increases in likelihood when you consider the monster looks the same in non-magical darkness as it does elsewhere. This is important because it eliminates another conceit of the guessing game, that of assuming that shadows will obscure all details of the monster no matter what it is because it's a stick figure comic. The less conceits, the better the fit, because Rich Burlew has proven his talent in avoiding such.
9) At Medium or Large size, it may well be either a Runt for its species, or it's a monster that increases in size as it increases in HD
All Zodar are identically six feet tall - except that increases in HD also correspond to increases in size. Six feet is exactly the right size -the monsters eyes are level with any humanoid. No additional spells need be cast to reduce its size, which is important because it is never implied that they were. This makes the Zodar far more likely than other, larger, choices.
10) Has the ability to cause an Earthquake (apparently accidentally)
Slam attacks are 2d20+17. That will crack ground. There's a descriptor in the Zodar's sheet that mentions that Zodar can rip away and throw shipmasts like spears. 45 strength is not to be underrated, no matter how it played out in your own personal epic game.
11) Has thus far shown no tendency towards (or away from) good/evil/law/chaos. This may indicate Neutrality, or may be a function of its personality/immaturity.
Chaotic Neutral alignment. The Zodar have no timetable listed for development, but I assume they live for a very long time. The monster in the darkness is clearly a juvenile, squandering his natural predeliction to intelligence and wisdom (although he may arguably be on the shortstack anyways) for a simple life of hedonistic pleasures.
12) Shocking or unusual appearance. Has been described as "Horrible, and yet so Beautiful". If we leave out opinion of what is horrible/beautiful to those speaking, it still must have an uncommon, unusual or shocking appearance.
Black armor makes a Zodar look like a Dark Knight, a fearsome looking warrior in stony plate. But the obsidian gleam, the crystalline nature of their exoskeleton - these can also be pretty.

A ZODAR! I call it thus! It has been called! Let this be the proofsheet you return to when the big reveal does happen at the very, very endgame, so you can be all like, hey, that Pojo, he's a smart guy, stealing that other guys idea.

[Need_A_Life]

What is MitD?
Superman.

No, seriously. Approximately human-sized, ridiculously strong, damage reduction through the roof and yet unable to solve any problem by using common sense.

[Snake-Aes]

The guess that's surfaced isn't mine, but I'll do the work of proofing it out because it is, in my opinion, a perfect fit, and I'll stand by it until the reveal (unless something else surfaces that clearly does not coincide). This is my final answer, checked against everything we are certain of so far.

It is:


A Zodar (http://lost.spelljammer.org/ShatteredFractine/critters/monsters/zodar.html).

Let's go down the list, using the MITD - What We Know thread as our key.
1) Creature type not normally found in a Rain forest (From SoD)
Terrain type - Any meets the standard requirement.
2) Creature cannot normally talk *or* cannot normally speak Common (From SoD)
Zodar's cannot speak, only magically emanate a speech three times in their lifetime (which they save for only very important occasions). This one clearly has the ability to talk somehow, which is part of why it's personality diverges from the lineup (but there's more)
3) Has DR that is not overcome by Slashing damage (From the 'game' with Miko)
A Zodar has 17 natural armor in the form of solid platemail. Any attack that fails will look like Miko and Belkar's fails because it fails against the natural armor, not dex (dodge) or deflection bonuses tacked on top of your standard 10. Also it's got a lot of HP... a lot a lot.
4) Has either incredibly high strength or some other similar means of hurling someone a large distance by "An Attack" (From the 'game' with Miko)
A Zodar has 45 strength and can lift and throw ship masts like spears. They don't normally punch things, but a friendly game of "who can hit the lightest" would turn out exactly like that.
5) Likely has a quite high CR (Redcloak has commented that it could easily escape) - note.
Yes.
6) Is not immune to Mind Affecting spells (SoD - Xykon enchanted it to eat Redcloak if he betrays him)
The man who guessed this assumed that Zodars were constructs - however, the description posts them as humanoid creatures with plate-like exoskeletons. They're certainly intelligent, if fairly single-minded, and thus capable of being affected.
7) Has some kind of undefined ability to make others disappear (Comic 661). Possible Effects are:
- Teleport Other
- Time-Hop (Psionic ability)
- Plane-shift others
- Ability to make others Ethereal
- Wish, Limited Wish or Miracle (duplicate any of the above abilities)
- Salient Divine Ability capable of duplicating the above
The psionic ability theory is weak tea considering that Redcloak, who has knowledge of the monster, doesn't know psionics exist until far later in the plotline. Any spell other than a Wish or Limited Wish also pales due to the fact that spells in OOTS with verbal components are commonly spoken as they are cast. A spell-like ability, however, would manifest differently, and a wish spell-like-ability would manifest exactly as it looks in the latest comic - the target wishes, and it is so. Zodars can supposedly manifest any spell they like three times in their lifetime, but I prefer to think that this particular wish is the once-in-a-lifetime variety - it makes looking back on that comic more dramatic, not less, and it makes the escape hard-earned, not a deus ex machina.
8) Has two eyes in the usual one-beside-the-other configuration. It may only have two, or it may have more in other locations (eyes in the back of your head?)
This is my favorite. A Zodar looks like a flat black suit of armor, save for two slits that serve as eyes. Not only is this a perfect description of the monster from everything we know about it, it also increases in likelihood when you consider the monster looks the same in non-magical darkness as it does elsewhere. This is important because it eliminates another conceit of the guessing game, that of assuming that shadows will obscure all details of the monster no matter what it is because it's a stick figure comic. The less conceits, the better the fit, because Rich Burlew has proven his talent in avoiding such.
9) At Medium or Large size, it may well be either a Runt for its species, or it's a monster that increases in size as it increases in HD
All Zodar are identically six feet tall - except that increases in HD also correspond to increases in size. Six feet is exactly the right size -the monsters eyes are level with any humanoid. No additional spells need be cast to reduce its size, which is important because it is never implied that they were. This makes the Zodar far more likely than other, larger, choices.
10) Has the ability to cause an Earthquake (apparently accidentally)
Slam attacks are 2d20+17. That will crack ground. There's a descriptor in the Zodar's sheet that mentions that Zodar can rip away and throw shipmasts like spears. 45 strength is not to be underrated, no matter how it played out in your own personal epic game.
11) Has thus far shown no tendency towards (or away from) good/evil/law/chaos. This may indicate Neutrality, or may be a function of its personality/immaturity.
Chaotic Neutral alignment. The Zodar have no timetable listed for development, but I assume they live for a very long time. The monster in the darkness is clearly a juvenile, squandering his natural predeliction to intelligence and wisdom (although he may arguably be on the shortstack anyways) for a simple life of hedonistic pleasures.
12) Shocking or unusual appearance. Has been described as "Horrible, and yet so Beautiful". If we leave out opinion of what is horrible/beautiful to those speaking, it still must have an uncommon, unusual or shocking appearance.
Black armor makes a Zodar look like a Dark Knight, a fearsome looking warrior in stony plate. But the obsidian gleam, the crystalline nature of their exoskeleton - these can also be pretty.

A ZODAR! I call it thus! It has been called! Let this be the proofsheet you return to when the big reveal does happen at the very, very endgame, so you can be all like, hey, that Pojo, he's a smart guy, stealing that other guys idea.


I like this idea. While spelljammer isn't the most known setting(star war + magic = porn for nerds!), but it's fit "enough". More than most theories at least.

[soj]

I don't think the MitD is an demon/daemon/devil or undead creature at all, nor is it a god of any kind nor is it the snarl. Just a wicked-ugly badass monster is all, like the Remorhaz, but not ('cause that wouldn't make sense 'n' stuff).

[Gecks]

It is a little (well, a lot) off-the-wall, but this is my current theory; very sorry if it has been posted before, but I took a quick look through this and the other (many) MITD threads, and did not see it:

An Angel, Solar, working "under cover" for the Good pantheon. The Solar has SLA for polymorph self and permanency, so that it could, for example, disguise itself as a baby tarrasque for as long as needed, and it also has wish. The simple-minded act is a perfect excuse for the MITD to avoid performing any out-right evil acts, and even help the good guys without blowing it's cover- such as when it "accidentally" lets Miko escape or just happens to recover and protect O-Chul's corpse because it is his "friend". Of course, there are holes in this theory, but the more I think about it, the more it seems just barely possible.

An Solar with a "head injury" (amnesia) could also work, since it's polymorph self ability is "at will", it could theoretically see a monster, think it's his "daddy", and then subconsciously take his form, and never change back, becoming, in effect, a miniature version of the creature with the Angel's SLAs and a conscious. In this case, O-Chul might have just started :mitd: on the road to recovery/redemption.

Of course, this is way out there, but the Solar's DR, str, and CR would work with what we've seen from the MITD; it seems like a good counter-point to the "pit fiend" hypothesis, if nothing else.

I think the fallen god survivor theory could have legs too, but in the OOTS universe, a god's power seems to be roughly in line with how many worshipers (s)he has, so a forgotten god might not even have enough power to fit in as the MITD).

EDIT: something I just thought of- the MITD's yellow eyes seem to match the colour scheme of both good aligned creatures in general, and the Northern Panteon...

[quick_comment]

Something with 15 HD or more and the phrenic template.

Phrenic doesnt grant any sort of teleportation effect.


Solars are known to speak.

Zodar works, except nobody has any idea what the f*** a zodar is.

[Ancalagon]

It is a little (well, a lot) off-the-wall, but this is my current theory; very sorry if it has been posted before, but I took a quick look through this and the other (many) MITD threads, and did not see it:

An Angel, Solar, working "under cover" for the Good pantheon. The Solar has SLA for polymorph self and permanency, so that it could, for example, disguise itself as a baby tarrasque for as long as needed, and it also has wish. The simple-minded act is a perfect excuse for the MITD to avoid performing any out-right evil acts, and even help the good guys without blowing it's cover- such as when it "accidentally" lets Miko escape or just happens to recover and protect O-Chul's corpse because it is his "friend". Of course, there are holes in this theory, but the more I think about it, the more it seems just barely possible.

An Solar with a "head injury" (amnesia) could also work, since it's polymorph self ability is "at will", it could theoretically see a monster, think it's his "daddy", and then subconsciously take his form, and never change back, becoming, in effect, a miniature version of the creature with the Angel's SLAs and a conscious. In this case, O-Chul might have just started :mitd: on the road to recovery/redemption.

Of course, this is way out there, but the Solar's DR, str, and CR would work with what we've seen from the MITD; it seems like a good counter-point to the "pit fiend" hypothesis, if nothing else.

I think the fallen god survivor theory could have legs too, but in the OOTS universe, a god's power seems to be roughly in line with how many worshipers (s)he has, so a forgotten god might not even have enough power to fit in as the MITD).

EDIT: something I just thought of- the MITD's yellow eyes seem to match the colour scheme of both good aligned creatures in general, and the Northern Panteon...

That theory seems to get gunned down by how the creature was found in SoD.

Whatever it is, it does not seem to have "planned" to join Team Evil in any way.

[jafar]

I'm leaning in this direction (below).


A couple of posts have mentioned the possibilities of Tarrasques - now called abominations. These fit for a variety of reasons: Powerful, dumb (low int), can't tell good from evil, ugly and stinky as sin, have deity like powers, eat everything and love it, can cast really high level spells (Abomination) like we just saw when V disappeared. Also, they are rare (only 1?/2?).

The wiki to Tarrasque says they are huge, but the Monster in the Dark says its "Dad" was huge and ate a lot. But they may have to start out small. Maybe he's a young one? The abomination entry below has a range of sizes and TONS of abilities. Check out the evidence for yourself:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarrasque_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Abomination

[Qubanz]

I always thought MitD was a baby Tarrasque.

Although I didn't know Tarrasques could teleport people away with their minds...

Still, I don't think there's really to much else the MitD COULD be, beyond some sort of made up creature. (But if it was that people couldn't guess what it was.)

I did think for a moment it might be a baby Pit Fiend, but those would be able to talk normally, and that's really about the only other thing that could fit. So I'm saying its a Tarrasque.

[Rhuarc]

I actually have a theory that I don´t think have been mentioned before.

Could it be that the MITD is somehow related to one of the 12 gods?

If it were a demigod of some sort it would explain a lot of the abilities it have,like giant strenght and DR.
I also think someone said something about gods being able to alter reality.

If it for example were the son of Bull it would also explain how the Stereotyped big game hunters recognized it as an animal, and it would also explain their surprise of it being able to talk, since normal non divine animals usually don´t do that.

Also; First post. :smallcool:

[Lord Loss]

Good! We'll put a grove of em in the garden.

Should be Up By Friday: Some More town encounters (Boneyard and Fields of Flesh as well as the Meatery.

[One Step Two]

Just out of Curiosity, since some people have stated Epic levels for the Monster in the Darkness, could it be possible that we're looking at a Paragon Creature under that pink umbrella?

[Trouvere]

Phrenic doesnt grant any sort of teleportation effect.What do you call 3/day psionic teleport, then?

[Firemage]

We have to remember, that the MitD is young, probably still a child. The size of the adult is probably much higher. And I guess we can't deduce anything from it's Int and Wis either. It's definately naive, and the ability to talk suggests, that it's more intelligent than other members of it's species.

What seems to be typical are the following characteristics:
1) High strength
2) Hard to injure (either high damage reduction and/or many hitpoints)
3) Can create earthquakes (could be due to his strength though)
4) Can teleport others or making them vanish as an innate ability
5) Usually not found in rainforests
6) Belongs to a whole species of creatures, who can breed.

The MitD specifically was at least raised by it's father, it is not known, what happened to it's mother (correct me, if I'm wrong). It was separated from it's family, before learning anything about it's abilities. Everyone else seems to know what it can do though. That suggests, that the species is well known in the world of OotS.

I personally have no idea, what that could be...

[PrzeSzkoda]

It's baby Cthulhu!

[DigoDragon]

I liked the Yoshi idea. That was pretty good "out-of-box" thinking. :smallsmile: I was thinking maybe it's something small ith powerful psionic ability, but I can't find anything like that in the D&D 'verse that would fit.

Baby Terrasque seems like the popular thought.
I'll vote for that.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Hmmm... Two thoughts...

One, my theory continues to fit.
The MitD is Minya, son of Godzilla. As a monster from Monster Island, Minya would be out of place if found in a jungle, but still recognizable by Stereotypical Big Game Hunters, Godzilla (and Minya) have most of the powers we've seen the MitD have (Damage Reduction, incredible strength, stomp, etc), but Minya doesn't have Atomic Breath (unless dad stomped on his tail). Minya could talk, was innocent and naive, and his dad was MUCH bigger than he was.

At the end of the movie, Ichiro (the little boy who wanted to go to Monster Island to get away from the bullies and loneliness in his life) essentially teleports back.

Except, not really. It was all just a dream, so no "teleport others" power for Minya.
So now we have a monster that has most or all of the abilities of the MitD, and most people recognise. Except no... Almost everyone knows the dad, but the child? He's a LOT more obscure. I saw this movie back when I was about 10 or so, so I'm trying to remember a movie I saw only once 34 years ago...

Now for my second thought: (SoD spoilers)
Blackwing says the Rift (and possibly the Snarl) was beautiful. One of the members of the audience back in SoD said the MitD was strangly beautiful after someone else said the MitD was ugly.

Which makes the often brought up theory by the Pixies in the Playground posters: "Huh... I think the MitD might be a piece of the Snarl. Why hasn't anyone ever suggested that before?" just might, JUST MIGHT have some legitimacy. Statements in the SoD notwithstanding...
Rich says the MitD will be a recognizable monster, but not necessarly a monster from the Monster Manual. I played D&D back during the 1st Ed. days, then again at 3.0, but until I got back into the game, I had never heard of the tarrasque. So I don't see the tarrasque being the MitD. But I could easily be wrong.

[quick_comment]

What do you call 3/day psionic teleport, then?

Something that requires touching the people to move, and the manifester must teleport with them as well.


Look people, its not anything psionic. Psionics do not play a major part in OOTS.



Which makes the often brought up theory by the Pixies in the Playground posters: "Huh... I think the MitD might be a piece of the Snarl. Why hasn't anyone ever suggested that before?" just might, JUST MIGHT have some legitimacy. Statements in the SoD notwithstanding...

The MitD can see the gates.

[Mystic Muse]

and yet failed to notice them until pointed out. and STILL doesn't get that the things are gates.

[RictorBelmont]

Question: My buddy and I are working on a theory and are trying to figure something out but I don't have the memory or time to do the work. Does anyone remember when the MITD wished for ice cream and it appears and he ate it? I have some memory of this but not much... if this did happen can you PM me the comic #? I'd love it.


Thank you!

[quick_comment]

and yet failed to notice them until pointed out. and STILL doesn't get that the things are gates.

Yes, but the Snarl is not able to see them. The MitD did see one, therefore he cannot be the snarl.

Also, being the snarl makes no sense at all. The mitd would be busy erasing creation.

[petamenos]

WHEN will we see it !? :)



ps: i hope its in the next 1-2 pages

[randomy]

i think the monster in the darkness is the snarl in the darkness without memories.