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Quietus
2009-05-04, 04:15 AM
Let's say your DM said "Alright guys, I'm trying something different this time. Roll new characters, but don't bother rolling stats. Pick whatever you feel suits your character." Would you abuse this, or would you use it to create exactly the character you had in mind, with all their weaknesses AND strengths?

KillianHawkeye
2009-05-04, 04:27 AM
I'd like to say I wouldn't give myself a character that was too twinked out, but the temptation may be too great. Realistically, I doubt I'd give myself anything lower than a 12 unless I came up with a great character idea that incorporated having any lower stats.

AslanCross
2009-05-04, 04:39 AM
I'd probably go for something like 18, 16, 16, 14, 14, 10 or 18, 16, 14, 14, 12, 10. I don't want to make a Mary Sue. On the other hand, I'd rather not be gimped in any one stat.

loopy
2009-05-04, 05:25 AM
Well I have a habit of rolling so well the DM won't even let me roll my own stats any more, even if I'm rolling with someone elses dice in front of him.

Seriously, my last character rolled 18, 18, 16, 16, 16, 15 in a 4d6b3 roll.

EDIT: Way to tangent, loopy.

As I was saying, my character would probably have one or two 18's, a couple of 16's, a 12, and a 'low'. Seems balanced. *shrugs*

EndlessWrath
2009-05-04, 05:38 AM
Well I have a habit of rolling so well the DM won't even let me roll my own stats any more, even if I'm rolling with someone elses dice in front of him.

Seriously, my last character rolled 18, 18, 16, 16, 16, 15 in a 4d6b3 roll.

EDIT: Way to tangent, loopy.

As I was saying, my character would probably have one or two 18's, a couple of 16's, a 12, and a 'low'. Seems balanced. *shrugs*


Yeah i got the same problem loopy, except it also happens a lot with combat and spot checks.:smallamused:
Got 3 triple crits in a row one combat, the DM decided he's rolling for me from now on.

Anyways, since my stats usually come out 18, 18, 17, 16, 16,14... I'd try to be a little more fair. I actually DM a lot of short dungeon crawls, and since building characters is time consuming, and since people roll differently and its usually not balanced. i usually do one of two things.
1) give every player an 18
2) all stats are consistent 18, 16, 14, 14, 12, 10.

I'd take number two and just build a character with a background suited for him. Although i have toyed with the idea of playing a commoner named brian who's abilities are 18, 9, 8, 7, 8,7 :smallbiggrin: Brian wasn't ever really good at anything.

Haven
2009-05-04, 06:22 AM
I think my line of thought would be something like "Well, I don't want my character to have 18s in everything, obviously," then I'd look around at the rest of the group and think "Wait, that's everyone else's first thought too! So actually giving myself 18s in everything would be GROUND BREAKING and REVOLUTIONARITY", then I'd finish making my character the whole way, look back over it, realize that having all 18s is dumb, and go with two 18s, three 14s and a 6, probably.

Salt_Crow
2009-05-04, 06:51 AM
Playing D&D (or any other RPGs for that matter) shouldn't be about testing how *honest* I am. To me, it's all about having fun together :)

So I'd consult other players and find out what kind of a campaign they'd like to play in. Do they want to play a full-on, over-the-top action? Or do they want to play a "farm-boy/girl-becomes-a-hero/ine" kind of a game, in which the protagonists would have pretty average scores overall.

We'd have plenty of fun just talking about it too, being D&D geeks that we are ;)

Weimann
2009-05-04, 07:00 AM
Well, it'd be hard for me not to maximize at last the main stats of my character. I think most people are a sufficient amount power gamer to have a hard time passing up the opportunity to make a twink character.

grautry
2009-05-04, 07:12 AM
I'd probably go for something along the lines of 18/18/16/14/10/8. Strong in virtually every area but has some flaws as well.

Kurald Galain
2009-05-04, 07:56 AM
Let's say your DM said "Alright guys, I'm trying something different this time. Roll new characters, but don't bother rolling stats.

I don't see what's so new or different about that. The last time any DM asked me to roll for stats was fifteen years ago.

mikeejimbo
2009-05-04, 08:28 AM
Man people who would give themselves all 18s surprise me.

Why stop at 18? All 24s, baby :smallbiggrin:

FinalJustice
2009-05-04, 08:31 AM
I'd probably get an all-18 once, just because I can. Then, I'd pick stats apropriate to my characters (Which are usually high =P). I'd probably still would not resist the temptation of giving 18's to the two most relevant stats for a while, though...

Eldariel
2009-05-04, 09:09 AM
It'd depend on the character I make. It wouldn't likely differ much from the point buy I usually use (32pb), but I always feel it stupid to have even numbers in every stat and having to dump two stats so I'd:
1) Ensure I've got at least 11 in every stat (unless I was intentionally making a guy with a very clear fundamental weakness).
2) Probably have 1 18. Or I'd make a Monk and give myself 3 18s to be slightly competent (ok, I'd just rather play Unarmed Swordsage still).

mikej
2009-05-04, 09:26 AM
I'd probably go for something along the lines of 18/18/16/14/10/8. Strong in virtually every area but has some flaws as well.

Same here, I put forth the idea awhile ago to my DM. I personally like to have high starting stats, but can live with what I get though. Just after a few times seeing other players scratching thier roles because they wanted to have 16-18s when they played the Rogue. They just kept on doing that, soo I was like, " why not just give high stats?"

Riffington
2009-05-04, 09:39 AM
I would ask the other players (either conspire with them separately, or else just peek off their sheets). If I had to pick myself, my main question would be "what is everyone else going to pick". That is probably a bit unfortunate, but I think it's true for me.

Llama231
2009-05-04, 09:40 AM
I would do the stats based on the character, with good ones and bad one.

Unless it was a monk, in which case every stat will be 20.

Tempest Fennac
2009-05-04, 09:51 AM
I'd probably just add the stats up so they were worth a 32 Point Buy (that's my prefered stat generation method, and I don't think it would be too strong).

ghost_warlock
2009-05-04, 10:16 AM
I'd probably use the opportunity to play a character with a cool concept but one that doesn't synergy well stat-wise; something with some harsh MAD.

I think my first choice would be a swordsage/shadowmage (my own homebrew, in sig), focusing on Shadow Hand maneuvers/stances; requires high stats in Dex, Wis, & Cha as well as a solid Int and Con (for melee survivability & Concentration checks). Would be especially awesome in a gestalt game.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-04, 11:15 AM
Depends on my class, but I'd have one or 2 18s, one or 2 16s, a 14, and 2 somewhere between 12 and 8. Add a point to the Con score, and there we go. I'd never go intentionally low. I had fun playing my priest with Down, but never again.

kyoten
2009-05-04, 12:14 PM
If I was to stat myself:

Str - 12
Dex - 16
Con - 12
Int - 16
Wis - 14
Cha - 9

Desired character:

Str - 14
Dex - 18
Con - 10
Int - 16
Wis - 12
Cha - 8

TheThan
2009-05-04, 12:42 PM
If there are no limitations on stats, why stop at one or two 18s, or for that matter why stop at 18. 25s give you +7 to your ability scores. if you dump that into a casting stat, it lets you cast two additional 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spells.

daggaz
2009-05-04, 01:21 PM
Honestly, I would take all 18's, make him a human fighter to start with, take the leadership feat, and name him Alexander. Who knows where he would end up..

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-05-04, 01:32 PM
32 point buy has been the standard in games I've run for years. I've never had a complaint.

Quietus
2009-05-04, 01:36 PM
To those saying "Why stop at 18's?"... I'd say that it's not unreasonable for a DM to slap a player who puts down all 25's and says "Well, you said ANYTHING.."

Lots of interesting responses, though. The reason I ask this is because one of my buddies is getting married sometime in the next year, and we've started a tradition of sorts, where whenever one of us gets married, we throw a three-day D&D party for the bachelor party. We're not really into strippers.. though it's tempting to get a few who will come and play "D&D with DD's" with us, just for the amusement factor. Of course, the actual bachelor wouldn't be nearly as amused.....

Anyway. I've been toying with this idea, because I think having a blow-out-the-roof style game would be a blast. I'd still start everyone at lower level just to keep the game somewhat sane, probably around level 3 or so (Since we have lots of weapon-finesse-rogue-players), so that the basics of everyone's builds can be in place. The "Pick your own stats" thing is just... it seems like a fun thing to pull out.

If I were to do this, and say "Okay guys, pick your own stats, but I want to keep this at a medium power level game", do you guys think that would be reasonable? Would that change any of your stat arrays?

For the record, I agree a lot with the crowd who're picking one or two 18's, several mid-range scores, and a couple hovering around the 8-12 area. All 18's is just too much... although I admit, it would be a lot of fun to play someone who is the epitome of what their race could be, and acts like it.

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-05-04, 01:43 PM
Quietus: That's a brilliant game idea! All base 18 + racial and templates.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-04, 01:45 PM
New idea. Take straight 18s and play a Lightning Warrior (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-868384.html). The high stats will offset the inherrant weakness and MAD of that class. :smallwink:

chiasaur11
2009-05-04, 01:51 PM
I might go with all 18s, but only to do an ACE RIMMER (what a guy!) style character. I mean, full on teeth gleam when he smiles, women swooning, villians mustache twirling, the works.

Otherwise, one or two 18s in primary stats, other wise 12s or 14s.

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-05-04, 01:55 PM
It just dawned on me that all 18s could make the monk almost playable. :smallbiggrin:

Berserk Monk
2009-05-04, 01:56 PM
I would do all 18's, but that's far too obvious. I'd instead do 18, 16, 16, 14, 14, 12. Broken, yes and pretty obvious, but at least I can make a decent argument. Say that my character never slacked off and trained hard. Besides, anyone says anything, I'll just say the DM said it was okay.

togapika
2009-05-04, 01:57 PM
Oooooh! Take all 18's be a human Warblade/Bloodstorm Blade
Captain America!!!

kyoten
2009-05-04, 02:01 PM
To the Quietus (post #24). A friend of mine who DMed a campaign using the same stat method (pick your stats) allowed us to pick our own stats prior to racial adjustments and changed it if he felt it appropriate. The characters we created for that game were definitely fun to play. I ended up playing a 18 Cha, 8 Wis Paladin.

He could nail those diplomacy checks, etc.. but man when it came to common sense. Whooboy. I mean he ended up "locking" himself out of his room. The door didn't have a lock, it pushed open. Another time he was looking for clothes for a slave that he just rescued from an orc leader. It took him a full minute to realize that the bed sheets he was on could be turned into a robe. Oh, good times, good times. Note that this doesn't include the SEVERAL women he had wanting his *ahem* "company" that he was too lacking in the common sense department to realize.

On a side note: Can you imagine how it would sound to call for a stripper for a bachelor party who has DDs AND plays D&D! Good luck with that if you do do it. Honest!

Deepblue706
2009-05-04, 02:05 PM
I'd play a Rogue with all 10s.

Lamech
2009-05-04, 02:12 PM
Hmm...
Wiz gray elf (Before racials)
Int:18
Con:16
Str: 8
Dex: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 8

Dingle
2009-05-04, 03:24 PM
Hmm...
Wiz gray elf (Before racials)
Int:18
Con:16
Str: 8
Dex: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 8

I would pick the exact same thing.

BloodyAngel
2009-05-04, 04:07 PM
Slightly off-topic, but when did it become absolutely essential to have an 18? I've been playing since 2nd ed, when 18 was considered human maximum. Now, 18 is apparently where you're expected to start at. I've had players throw up their hands in rage and refuse to play a character because his best stats were "only" a 16 and a 15. The humanity! The game assumes 12 is "above average", but try making a wizard with only "above average" int, and you'll get laughed at for hours. PC's need to be flawless paragons of their art, naturally blessed towards their chosen career... or they can go the heck home. *sigh....*

That rant aside... I've made myself up in a game or three, because it's far more impressive if my scrawny self manages to survive a fight with a gnoll than if Allandra the amazon warrioress or Braccus Maal, the sorcerer of flaming death does it.

My stats are around... Str: 8 Dex: 13 Con: 10 Int: 14 Wis: 10 Char: 12

My prefered PC stats depend on what I'm playing... but probably something along the lines of 16, 15, 14, 12, 10, 8. Good, but not superhuman, and able to grow and see improvement.

Zhalath
2009-05-04, 04:10 PM
18
16
14
12
12
10

It seems pretty good to me. This is what I give my players nowadays, and it works very well.

SurlySeraph
2009-05-04, 04:40 PM
16
16
14
14
10

I like characters who are very good at a couple things, but not the best possible at any one thing. Hence, no 18s.

Dhavaer
2009-05-04, 04:56 PM
16
16
14
14
10

I like characters who are very good at a couple things, but not the best possible at any one thing. Hence, no 18s.

No 6th stat, either. Undead?

TheCountAlucard
2009-05-04, 05:02 PM
No 6th stat, either. Undead?

Or a Construct. I'd like to see what could be done with the Maug, from Fiend Folio...

Sergeantbrother
2009-05-04, 05:33 PM
I think that a lot of people are missing the point here. I think that picking your stats is something good from a role playing perspective, not a tool to have overpowered god characters. Instead of rolling or even trying to balance and possibly min-max a character, you just get an idea in your head of what kind of person the character is and then assign attributes appropriately. With a group that isn't full of a bunch of trouble makers, this may well result in lower powered attribute arrays since the player is essentially responsible for what ever he does with his character and can't blame the random dice rolls or the point allotment for powergaming.

Though, I would personally fear that I might make a well reasoned character with attributes like 14, 15, 14, 12, 10, 9 while somebody else makes a character with 18, 18, 18, 16, 16, and 14.

Flickerdart
2009-05-04, 05:54 PM
All eights, Warlock. Made a pact with infernal forces because he never measured up in any aspect of his life, and could never excel at anything.

Faulty
2009-05-04, 06:34 PM
I don't think I would. A lot of the characters I think of always have some personality or physical trait that would result in one trait being 6 to 8, and I'd just feel cheap twinking out the rest.

aje8
2009-05-04, 09:28 PM
I'd take a low score in one of my mental stats for a more interesting character (Smart, wise and charasmatic?!) Probably put a low score into strength (if caster) probably like an 8 base.... which means 4 after flaws and racial modfiiers usually. .....And then make the rest 18s.

Time for Precious Apprentice cheese early entry mystic thergue! How else to better take adavtnage of 18s across the board? This thergue of course has an 18 Dex and spams ray spells and and has 18 con for high health. The 18 in casting stats is implied.

FMArthur
2009-05-04, 09:54 PM
I would just default to Champion Array (18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8), which won't get left in the dust if other players went with straight 18s if I play it right. If I wanted to play a MAD class I'd go with five 14s and a 10.

tyckspoon
2009-05-04, 10:14 PM
Slightly off-topic, but when did it become absolutely essential to have an 18? I've been playing since 2nd ed, when 18 was considered human maximum. Now, 18 is apparently where you're expected to start at. I've had players throw up their hands in rage and refuse to play a character because his best stats were "only" a 16 and a 15. The humanity! The game assumes 12 is "above average", but try making a wizard with only "above average" int, and you'll get laughed at for hours. PC's need to be flawless paragons of their art, naturally blessed towards their chosen career... or they can go the heck home. *sigh....*


I think it's because the descriptive terms for what a stat value means are wildly divorced from the scale of their mechanical effects. 18 Strength may represent the highest point a human can naturally reach, but it's only a +4 to Strength based stuff. That means a human with ideal Strength has only a 20% edge on a human with strictly average Strength. That doesn't really match up with the real-world difference between 'best a human can be' and 'average guy off the street.'

There's also the prevalence of point-buy stat generation as the primary character-creation method, in particular the higher values (32 points and up). These systems let you guarantee an 18 if you feel it's that important to the character, and if you're used to using them you may well feel that an 18 is expected and be disappointed if you have to roll and don't get one.

(All that said, if you seriously had players complain about 16/15 as high stats said player needs to grow up a bit.)

Knaight
2009-05-04, 10:28 PM
It depends on the character. I would probably go above what I've been rolling lately, but thats because my last two stat arrays were something along the lines of 14, 13, 13, 13, 13, 12 and 14, 13, 10, 10, 10, 9. A fourteen is fine, but both of these could have been legally rerolled, I just didn't have the patience. It really depends on the character though, I have a few that need low stats, but most of them end up needing a low wisdom, but also need a high wisdom(stupid stats representing too much. Ugh.)

Chronos
2009-05-04, 10:43 PM
Quoth kyoten:
I ended up playing a 18 Cha, 8 Wis Paladin.

He could nail those diplomacy checks, etc.. but man when it came to common sense. Whooboy.You do realize that an 8 is only slightly below average? A score of 8 is supposed to be exactly as remarkable as a score of 13 (among the general populace, at least). And you'd never hear anyone talk about how amazingly strong their character is with a 13 Str, or the like.



Myself, I'd probably just pick a reasonable point buy value and use it as normal (how exactly that would break down would depend on the character). I'd want to play something that wasn't too unreasonably far out, but I also wouldn't trust myself to make that judgment subjectively.

woodenbandman
2009-05-04, 10:46 PM
I'd just take 1 18 and 2 14s, and the rest could be 8s.

I'd play a wizard, of course.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-04, 10:54 PM
For those saying that we're taking high stats to twink out, no. I've played characters with low stats. I rolled once, in a 9 stat 3d6 in order system, humans get 1 reroll, a character with 8 stats from 5-9, and a single 15. Great fun. Loved the character. When he bit it(the last session before I could justify retiring him) I was incredibly upset, and a lot of effort was made by my party to try to save me. Despite that, I have no desire to make a character that can't handle a below-CR challenge in a party of CR+2s. I will have more difficulty enjoying it and I'll probably annoy my friends. I'll save my straight-3 Warlock and my Druid of 18/10/8/8/8/8 for when I roll those, I'd much rather use the opportunity for massive stats to play something that needs massive stats. Maybe a straight Paladin (18s and 4 Wis) who believes he's trapped in a Small Gods-esque situation. :smallbiggrin:

Myrmex
2009-05-05, 12:13 AM
"D&D with DD's" Best. Idea. Ever.

shadzar
2009-05-05, 12:33 AM
Oh I would abuse the heck out of it! Using an 75 point distribution I would probably do something like this:

STR: 20
DEX:20
INT:5
CON:20
WIS:5
CHA:5

Of course this would be for a wizard. :smalleek: j/k, a straight class fighter!

Innis Cabal
2009-05-05, 12:43 AM
Honestly, I would take all 18's, make him a human fighter to start with, take the leadership feat, and name him Alexander. Who knows where he would end up..

Pakistan probably....

SurlySeraph
2009-05-05, 02:08 AM
No 6th stat, either. Undead?

:smallbiggrin: I was wondering if someone would catch that. Undead paladins, for the win.

Geddoe
2009-05-05, 02:13 AM
I'd probably go for something along the lines of 18/18/16/14/10/8. Strong in virtually every area but has some flaws as well.

I don't see why you can't have flaws that aren't reflected in stats. Every time somebody uses the "Can't have all good stats because a character needs flaws" arguement, I am baffled. Can people not roleplay flaws that have nothing to do with a dump stat?

On topic: All 15's and 16's. The character's "stat flaw" could that he is gifted in every stat, but isn't the strongest in any one.

grautry
2009-05-05, 03:00 AM
I don't see why you can't have flaws that aren't reflected in stats. Every time somebody uses the "Can't have all good stats because a character needs flaws" arguement, I am baffled. Can people not roleplay flaws that have nothing to do with a dump stat?

Mechanics aren't disconnected from roleplaying.

Roleplaying the creepiest guy in the world is pretty meaningless when it turns out that you have 18 Charisma and 15 ranks in Diplomacy once the dice start rolling.

Your attributes are just as much "who your character is" as backstory and roleplaying.

Kurald Galain
2009-05-05, 03:17 AM
Slightly off-topic, but when did it become absolutely essential to have an 18? I've been playing since 2nd ed, when 18 was considered human maximum. Now, 18 is apparently where you're expected to start at.

That would be since third edition placed a much greater emphasis on ability scores than second. Fourth takes it a step further in that ability scores now mainly represent your ability to hit things (with a sword, bow, spell, etc) rather than how strong, agile, and smart you are.

Anyway, to answer the OP's question, I usually end up with something like 2/1/3, 4/2/3 (or 2/4/3), 2/4/4.

Berserk Monk
2009-05-05, 03:26 AM
Actually, if we could literally pick any number, say hello to my half orc barbarian:

The Death Machine:
Str: 40
Con: 30
Dex: 7
Int: 4
Wis: 5
Cha: NO

monty
2009-05-05, 03:52 AM
All eights, Warlock. Made a pact with infernal forces because he never measured up in any aspect of his life, and could never excel at anything.

Boring. If you're going that route, you want straight 1's, except for a 3 in Int.

BobVosh
2009-05-05, 04:03 AM
Hah, this reminds me of the bum campaign in Rifts. We all played vagabonds with one stat at 24, all the rest ~8 (earth average in this game)

I was beautiful bum, running with quick bum, smart bum, strong bum, and we never really thought of a name for ME (mental endurance bum)

I would probably end up with 32 point buy ish. Meh, 36 more likely, I won't lie.

Leon
2009-05-05, 04:13 AM
18, 16, 16, 15, 14, 12

Geddoe
2009-05-06, 11:06 PM
Mechanics aren't disconnected from roleplaying.

Roleplaying the creepiest guy in the world is pretty meaningless when it turns out that you have 18 Charisma and 15 ranks in Diplomacy once the dice start rolling.

Your attributes are just as much "who your character is" as backstory and roleplaying.
Mechanics aren't totally connected either. If you are roleplaying a creep, you don't put points in charisma or diplomacy(though Hannibal Lecter is very creepy and probably has a decent cha and okay ranks in diplomacy).

Take the example of Alexander the Great, he had good charisma, decent int, wisdom, and was a respected warrior. His character flaws wouldn't be stat related, they would be related to ambition, and hubris.

A character can have fairly good stats, but be unable to trust anybody due to her past.

And my point wasn't that a low stat or two can't lead to flaws, it is that some people seem to say that without the low stat it is impossible to roleplay any flaw.

Crow
2009-05-07, 01:14 AM
14
16
12
16
11
10

Probably play a rogue or something.