some V options (spoilers)

[GSFB]

1)

V's subcontractors are able to penetrate the Cloister, but V is not. V is shunted off somewhere, without the Splice.

2)

V teleports in, Splice intact. Xykon, or more likely Redcloak, uses some simple Dismissal-type spell to end the Splice.

3)

V teleports in, but finds Xykon and an army have set off for the next gate.

4)

V teleports in, and he and his subcontractors find that the missing necromancer spirit has now taken up with Xykon.

- There could be many more options, but these sounded good right now.

[ThisIsNotDan]

A) V succeeds in teleportation, but loses Ganonron in the process. Add this scenario to any of the ones listed above (except the first, obviously)

[Dagren]

5) V pops in, and blasts Xykon into little bony bits.

[Omegonthesane]

5) V pops in, and blasts Xykon into little bony bits.

6... but he forgets about X's phylactery.

7. Xykon has an epic splice-breaker, but it only lets Ganonron free. Enraged, V lets loose Jephton's Epic spell. Not much of Azure City is left.

8. The Monster in the Darkness finally becomes competent and is such a threat to Spliced!V that he must retreat with the job half done... but with X and Redcloak injured, Tsukiko dead or injured, and the phylactery destroyed.

[Dagren]

6... but he forgets about X's phylactery.

7. Xykon has an epic splice-breaker, but it only lets Ganonron free. Enraged, V lets loose Jephton's Epic spell. Not much of Azure City is left.

8. The Monster in the Darkness finally becomes competent and is such a threat to Spliced!V that he must retreat with the job half done... but with X and Redcloak injured, Tsukiko dead or injured, and the phylactery destroyed.Exactly. There are far too many possibilities for it to really be worthwhile listing them, but it's certainly more than 4.

[Skeppio]

5) V pops in, and blasts Xykon into little bony bits.

That would be the single dumbest outcome possible. Xykon is the Big Bad of the comic. V winning the fight at all would be jumping the shark so far that he/she'd land in another plane entirely.

[Dagren]

That would be the single dumbest outcome possible. Xykon is the Big Bad of the comic. V winning the fight at all would be jumping the shark so far that he/she'd land in another plane entirely.Xykon was also the big bad in #115 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0115.html), and look what good it did him.

[Skeppio]

Xykon was also the big bad in #115 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0115.html), and look what good it did him.

But do remember, he regenerated good as new and made an epic comeback. Now he's firmly ingrained as 'Final Boss' big bad, unless the Snarl gets released or something. So it'd be a shark jump for V to kill him this time, unless Xykon's phylactery is left intact again, but I doubt Rich would do the exact same subplot twice.

[Omegonthesane]

But do remember, he regenerated good as new and made an epic comeback. Now he's firmly ingrained as 'Final Boss' big bad, unless the Snarl gets released or something. So it'd be a shark jump for V to kill him this time, unless Xykon's phylactery is left intact again, but I doubt Rich would do the exact same subplot twice.
...or Redcloak takes a level in badass...

...or, come to that, Nale takes a few....

...or Xykon is destroyed, but Redcloak casts True Resurrection to return him to life and/or Haerta splices to him (this would be helped if there was a homebrew life-extending potion or suchlike so Xykon doesn't die of old age during or before the final battle).

...or V loses all his high-level spell slots to Xykon & Tsukiko counterspelling, realises he certainly won't kill X with what he has left, but destroys the phylactery on the way out...

...or for the laughs, V casts Jephton's Mass Frog... but despite being frogs, Xykon and Redcloak retain all their hit dice and spellcasting abilities, thereby making an epic fight with a pair of frogs.

[shadzar]

but I doubt Rich would do the exact same subplot twice.

Yeah about that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0471.html)...

[chionophile]

But do remember, he regenerated good as new and made an epic comeback. Now he's firmly ingrained as 'Final Boss' big bad, unless the Snarl gets released or something. So it'd be a shark jump for V to kill him this time, unless Xykon's phylactery is left intact again, but I doubt Rich would do the exact same subplot twice.

That term... I don't think it means what you think it means (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark).

[Skeppio]

That term... I don't think it means what you think it means (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark).

On second thoughts, I think the term I was looking for was anti-climax. My bad.

[Omegonthesane]

On second thoughts, I think the term I was looking for was anti-climax. My bad.

And what's wrong with an anticlimax, precisely?

[pendell]

How about this .. the MiTD reveals itself to V (but not to us -- we only see V's face on-panel), and the shock is enough to break Jephton free.

Not Ganonron or however it's spelled -- V still needs Ganonron to escape back to his friends -- but the shock alone should break one of the splices.

Respectfully,

Brian Pendell

[isocum]

facts we know:
1)V commented on divine magic being not real
2)V is arrogant, over-confident and too verbose
3)pact with the devil never works
4)we did not see jephtons epic spell
5)fiends have plans for V
and obviously xykon have to survive to go to the girards gate

so

i guess that what we will see is a somewhat even fight between jirix&redcloak&xykon vs V, thus gags, and likely V exposing the splice while ranting. this may lead to V losing one of the splices, likely ganonron, and force V to use jephs epic spell. i think the killing blow will come from one of the clerics, redcloak or weak jirix, since losing to not real magic would be poetic justice.
after this point V has two options:
-flee, since she lost the edge, and release jeph afterwards(going out from cloister doesn't require epic teleport)
-fight with jeph only and lose, get humiliated and saved by the fiends just at the last minute.

this way all our facts will be covered.

note: am i the only one to find jirix having a name very suspicious?

[Nerdanel]

It appears that V has zero ranks in Knowledge (religion).

So...

Since knowing about the undead goes under Knowledge (religion), V won't know about a lich's phylactery. In fact he cannot know anything above DC 10 about undead without at least a point in the skill, which he is very unlikely to have.


My guess therefore is...

V kills Xykon (after first wasting time with damage types like ice and lightning Xykon is immune to) but has no idea about the existence of a phylactery or what it does. The plot (in the guise of V) also kills the hobgoblin army in order to force Team Evil to recruit a new type of disposable minion (Bugbears? Orcs? I'm guessing kobolds will be reserved for the last gate.) to keep the story fresh. Jephton's epic spell is used somewhere there to a great effect, and V loses at least one splice too.

Then V either leaves, satisfied in his seemingly-complete victory, or is repulsed/killed by Redcloak, thus showing to V that divine magic is not to be trifled with.

If V wins while down to one splice he might even get some XP, maybe, depending on how powerful Jephton is. Redcloak on the other hand could very well level up just like that if he manages to defeat V somehow.l

[Kaytara]

The fact that Xykon needs to survive in some way due to being the main villain and still having to reach Girard's Gate does not preclude him from being defeated.

Yes, the "They destroyed the body but forgot the phylactery" trick was already pulled. Therefore, I think the reverse will happen. O-Chul was present when Soon nearly owned Xykon, it's not unreasonable to think that he knows what Xykon's phylactery is and is clearly already eager to help this intruder, whoever he is.

So I think V will fail to kill Xykon but succeed in destroying the phylactery with O-Chul's help. It keeps Xykon technically intact for the final encounter but makes him "mortal", in a way, and the phylactery's destruction would definitely count as a huge achievement. Since the growing courage of the slaves has been set up, as well, they will likely use this opportunity to try and free themselves and V may end it by teleporting the remaining Azurite slaves and the Resistance back to the Order, which just so happens to be stationed directly near the Azurites' new homeland. V will finally make peace with his (metaphorical) demons and start trancing again. :) I'm being optimistic, of course, but I think it would fit together rather nicely.

In any case, how can one not be optimistic? Vaarsuvius failing again at THIS juncture, after everything that's already happened, would mean the complete annihilation of this character in the story, one way or the other. Whether he killed or survives, the kind of miserable defeat some people have been predicting would cause Vaarsuvius to snap completely, and I truly doubt it's possible at this time in the story. Besides, complete raving madness isn't as interesting as character growth, anyway.

[isocum]

The fact that Xykon needs to survive in some way due to being the main villain and still having to reach Girard's Gate does not preclude him from being defeated.

Yes, the "They destroyed the body but forgot the phylactery" trick was already pulled. Therefore, I think the reverse will happen. O-Chul was present when Soon nearly owned Xykon, it's not unreasonable to think that he knows what Xykon's phylactery is and is clearly already eager to help this intruder, whoever he is.

So I think V will fail to kill Xykon but succeed in destroying the phylactery with O-Chul's help. It keeps Xykon technically intact for the final encounter but makes him "mortal", in a way, and the phylactery's destruction would definitely count as a huge achievement. Since the growing courage of the slaves has been set up, as well, they will likely use this opportunity to try and free themselves and V may end it by teleporting the remaining Azurite slaves and the Resistance back to the Order, which just so happens to be stationed directly near the Azurites' new homeland. V will finally make peace with his (metaphorical) demons and start trancing again. :) I'm being optimistic, of course, but I think it would fit together rather nicely.

In any case, how can one not be optimistic? Vaarsuvius failing again at THIS juncture, after everything that's already happened, would mean the complete annihilation of this character in the story, one way or the other. Whether he killed or survives, the kind of miserable defeat some people have been predicting would cause Vaarsuvius to snap completely, and I truly doubt it's possible at this time in the story. Besides, complete raving madness isn't as interesting as character growth, anyway.

can't he just make a new one? afaik phylactery is a place for soul to escape when lichs body is destroyed, the soul is not inside when the lich has its body. so i think it should be remakeable if the body survives.

[David Argall]

The fact that Xykon needs to survive in some way due to being the main villain and still having to reach Girard's Gate does not preclude him from being defeated.
Oh yes, we might note here that according to the standard theory, V is going to be taken over by the fiends at one of the gates, which means V must also survive the battle without major problems.


So I think V will fail to kill Xykon but succeed in destroying the phylactery with O-Chul's help. the phylactery's destruction would definitely count as a huge achievement.
Which is probably why it won't happen. We have a theme of V not being able to do anything [that counts in V's opinion] with her power. So any permanent damage to Xykon will have to happen in a way where V can't feel he deserves any credit for it.
And it is unlikely the phylactery will be destroyed at all. It's being threatened is too good a theme. And there is a general bias in drama that the villain gets stronger as the plot goes on, not suffers an expanded weakness.

The presence of O-Chul suggests that he will take part in the fight, and in a way that negates any claim V has to having destroyed Xykon. Just what that will be is still to be seen.

[Kaytara]

can't he just make a new one? afaik phylactery is a place for soul to escape when lichs body is destroyed, the soul is not inside when the lich has its body. so i think it should be remakeable if the body survives.

I don't know, actually. O.O However... IF that is indeed the case... it may possibly merely make things more interesting rather than smash the theory to bits.
It comes down to the specifics of making phylacteries. In SoD Redcloak helped turn Xykon into a Lich. If Redcloak's assistance is likewise required in rebuilding a destroyed phylactery, well then... Redcloak is in a quite different state of mind concerning Xykon than he was all those years ago, isn't he? ;) If he thinks he can make a phylactery in some way that will sabotage it or otherwise render it ineffective, he may actually do it.


]
Which is probably why it won't happen. We have a theme of V not being able to do anything [that counts in V's opinion] with her power. So any permanent damage to Xykon will have to happen in a way where V can't feel he deserves any credit for it.
And it is unlikely the phylactery will be destroyed at all. It's being threatened is too good a theme. And there is a general bias in drama that the villain gets stronger as the plot goes on, not suffers an expanded weakness.

The presence of O-Chul suggests that he will take part in the fight, and in a way that negates any claim V has to having destroyed Xykon. Just what that will be is still to be seen.

As I outlined at the end of my previous post, I think this pattern of uselessness is precisely why V has to succeed in this. After everything that's gone wrong, he NEEDS something to go right for once. His sanity demands it.

But to roll with your idea, how do you see V's character development continuing if Vaarsuvius does not achieve something he can arguably consider a victory? Anything less than partial success would probably make Vaarsuvius snap and go completely catatonic. It's possible Vaarsuvius will destroy neither the phylactery nor Xykon himself. Perhaps he will "merely" rescue a few hundred slaves and whatnot and will be convinced by THEM, when they start expressing their gratitude, that taking the power was worth it, after all. Especially if Hinjo or the Katos come along and start once again thanking V for finding them a new homeland. That sheer amount of praise and appreciation could make V reconsider his opinion of "trivial" low-level humans and their affairs and believe he has achieved something good, after all.

But that would still be at odds with the "V achieves nothing at all and ends up disappointed" idea you suggested.

If you're just referring specifically to Xykon's defeat, I can't say I agree that V won't deserve any credit if it'll be, say, O-Chul to smash the phylactery rather than Vaarsuvius. The fact that V had come along to provide the perfect distraction and opened the field for O-Chul would be a significant chunk to credit himself with, I would think.