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Warclam
2009-05-08, 06:37 PM
OK, a little backstory (go to the next paragraph if you don't care). I currently have a wizard character who is somewhat obsessed with the idea of attaining eternal life, but dislikes the undead and wouldn't even consider becoming one. He's level 3 right now, and I was going to wait until he was more awesome before starting to think about this, but: 1) he currently has the otherwordly feat to be a native outsider, but I have certain ideas for a build and I'd like that feat slot back (the DM allows retraining); 2) the party is currently traveling through a landscape that is slowly driving the ones who fail their will saves, including wizard-boy, insane, so this seemed like a good time for a stroke of "brilliance".

Alright, so what I was thinking, would it be feasible to create a version of the Necropolitan (which I like, since it pays XP instead of gaining a level adjustment) that makes the character a native outsider instead of undead? It already grants a type change and an unlimited lifespan, so the main things I want are already represented.

Also: the Necropolitan gets assorted other goodies besides a type change, like no con score, higher hit dice, but if I reduce the benefits to just being an immortal native outsider (darkvision included), could I get a discount on the material components? I ask because the guy is nearly broke, but if I make the cost "1,000gp in gems" or something like that, I could sacrifice his 1st level Pearl of Power and call it good.

Does that sound reasonable, or in need of rebalancing? If it's way underpowered (which I doubt), maybe it could become like the Dragonborn and only cost some gold and time?

Salt_Crow
2009-05-08, 06:46 PM
Since the character won't be getting any undead immunity goodness, I'd say it's on the underpowered side of things.

Warclam
2009-05-08, 07:13 PM
Since the character won't be getting any undead immunity goodness, I'd say it's on the underpowered side of things.

That's true, I'd somehow forgotten about all those. Hmm... a flat fee like the Dragonborn still seems too easy though, for such a hot commodity as immortality. Well, agelessness, plus immunity to aging effects and aging penalties. Paying a little gold to be able to hop all the way up to venerable at no extra cost seems broken (not that that'll matter for this character). What about 1,000 gp and 1,000 XP?

Alternatively, I could give some extra features to make up for the price. Maybe an immunity or resistance to death effects, or some kind of regrowth ability, like liches and ghosts have? It would have to be HD-based, of course, to avoid being way too good in the early days.

I kinda like the cheaper, earlier version, though I'm worried about something so big being grantable so early. On the other hand, it really does end up being rather like a watered-down version of the Necropolitan, which can kick in as soon as you're at least 1 XP over level 3. If I do 1,000 for both costs, then it's available as soon as you nudge over the level 2 line instead.

SurlySeraph
2009-05-08, 08:37 PM
Make him spend a certain amount of time researching a spell before he can do it, and have the spell take up one of his highest-level slots. And then require an XP cost and/or expensive material component.

Warclam
2009-05-08, 09:33 PM
I agree that makes perfect sense, but it's a very personal solution. Not that you could have known, but the reason he's so devoted to the quest for immortality isn't just for himself; he's opposed to people dying of "natural" causes before they're finished with life. He actually studied divine magic but rejected it because, if you'll notice, even spells like true resurrection make specific exemption for old age.

That said, I really like the idea of it being controlled by a spell. That would give more control over who receives the boon and who doesn't. That also allows me to use his temporary madness without necessarily doing it right now: he could devise the idea for the spell in a crazed fit of brilliance despite not being able to cast it yet (and actually, there's a plot element he may be able to exploit for this).

Mechanically speaking, I think an experience cost to be paid by the petitioner works best. I'm seeing it as a kind of vision quest through several timeless planes, draining some of your life essence in order to reshape the rest by their laws. Or something. I'll figure something out. Thanks for the help!

sigurd
2009-05-08, 10:58 PM
Immortality without extra defenses is not really a game changing power. Its more often just colour. How many characters have you had who died of old age? How many even progressed out of their first age category?


Dragon 354 had a 9th level spell called "Kissed by the Ages" that binds your life force to a 3000gp+ item. So long as you carry that item your character doesn't age.


I have had a few NPCs use the spell but I've never had a player care enough to cast the 9th level spell.

Sigurd


This thread also came up in my search -- http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=562479

Baron Corm
2009-05-09, 01:57 AM
I think a quest should be in order. Powerful wizards commit unspeakable acts of evil to become liches, in their quest for immortality. Sure, it doesn't have much mechanical effect, but it is still one of the most desirable things out there. You shouldn't be able to get it just by "researching a spell". Perhaps "the insane dimension put a seed of a spell into your mind which requires you to go on a life-quest (which your DM should fit into the current quest) and turns you into a Native Outsider". If you cast this on a commoner, he would have to go on a quest of his own. This makes it available to the public, but still not as easy as saying "abra kadabra".

Warclam
2009-05-10, 06:57 AM
OK, I've put the idea before my DM, and we're going with a Necropolitan-style template. The flavour I've decided on is that the ritual involves binding the spirit to the Astral Plane and taking on the Timeless aspect of it, plus a few of the characteristics of an astral form (mostly just appearance). The DM agrees with you about the quest, so I'm not sure yet how this will all pan out. Once we hack out the details, I'm planning to post it on the forum and I'll put a link here. Thanks everyone for your ideas!