The Red Button: A Matter of Morality

[Tequila Sunrise]

Inspired by GoC's thread, I remembered a hypothetical situation posed by my college philosophy prof:

Walking through a forest, you find an ancient tree. Embedded in the tree's trunk is a big red button. It's not glued or nailed to the trunk; it appears to actually be a part of the tree, somehow. The button is round, smooth, shiny and...well, irresistibly pushable. Above the button is a glass peephole. Looking into the peephole, you see a planet that looks much like Earth, though its continents are different. Below the button is a sign that reads PRESSING THIS BUTTON WILL DESTROY THIS PLANET, AND THE CIVILIZATION WHICH INHABITS IT.

Do you push the button?

[InaVegt]

Yes, I would.

[Assassin89]

I would not press the button. Why? See the evil overlord list (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilOverlordList)

[Ghastly Epigram]

It is a big red button, man. There is something wrong with you if you do NOT press it. :smallbiggrin:

Presumably there is absolutely no reason to believe what the message says, as such seems impossible, so I would definitely press it.

[Tamburlaine]

I'd want to push it, but being wary of the repercussions, I'd instead let some other fool push it for me - there seems to be no shortage...:smallamused:

[DamnedIrishman]

I wouldn't say it's so much a question of morality as a question of calculated risk. For a start, it's a button attached to a tree of all things, so a gambling mind might presume that it is unlikely to be rigged to a doomsday device.

I still wouldn't push it, though. Either the sign is true, and the world is destroyed (which is not of net benefit to me) or the sign is false and something else happens (either nothing - still no net benefit - or something which could include something else horrible). All in all there's no good reason to push the button other than one's own self-absorbed curiosity and since I am not a self-absorbed antisocial nihilist (and thus would risk the destruction of the world against my own curiosity) or a idiot monkey (and thus press buttons just because they are there) that button is staying unpushed.

Now, if it were a slot machine (one-armed bandit type) were three cherries gave you immortality and three bananas caused the heat death of the universe... THAT would be a question of morality. And calculated risk too. Pull the lever?

[Thanatos 51-50]

Set fire to the tree, watch it burn down, permenantly disconnect all wires, destroy wires, break button, melt button, scatter idividual molecules to the four Winds.
Pat self on back.

[mercurymaline]

Now, if it were a slot machine (one-armed bandit type) were three cherries gave you immortality and three bananas caused the heat death of the universe... THAT would be a question of morality. And calculated risk too. Pull the lever?

Is this a nickel or quarter slot, and what do the other combinations do?

[DamnedIrishman]

Is this a nickel or quarter slot, and what do the other combinations do?

For the sake of being entirely arbitrary and hijacking a thread...

There are four fruits - cherries, bananas, apples and watermelons.

Three cherries causes the heat death of the universe.
Three bananas gives you immortality (not neccesarily a good thing).
Three apples causes gives you eternal youth.
Three watermelons gives you six million dollars, cash.

Two matching symbols gives you a five dollar bill and a piece of relevant fruit.
No matching symbols makes an obese man stamp on your foot.

You can only pull it twice: if you try a third time, you develop advanced stage leprosy. Both pulls are free. No nudges.

A quandary. I'd make this more sensible, but I can hear an ice-cream van outside.

[wadledo]

......How is that three fruits?:smallconfused:

[GoC]

This is not a matter of morality. It's a matter of seeing an interesting red button that's extremely unlikely to cause any harm and pressing it.

[DamnedIrishman]

......How is that three fruits?:smallconfused:

It's three fruits by virtue of a combined failure of various parts of the brain.

[mercurymaline]

The neat thing about late stage leprosy: it's not painful. I think I could live with that and just keep pulling the lever til I arrived at eternal youth.

[V'icternus]

Inspired by GoC's thread, I remembered a hypothetical situation posed by my college philosophy prof:

Walking through a forest, you find an ancient tree. Embedded in the tree's trunk is a big red button. It's not glued or nailed to the trunk; it appears to actually be a part of the tree, somehow. The button is round, smooth, shiny and...well, irresistibly pushable. Above the button is a glass peephole. Looking into the peephole, you see a planet that looks much like Earth, though its continents are different. Below the button is a sign that reads PRESSING THIS BUTTON WILL DESTROY THIS PLANET, AND THE CIVILIZATION WHICH INHABITS IT.

Do you push the button?

Yes.

1. It's likely to do nothing.

2. If it does destroy the planet, what do I care? Doesn't affect me at all.

3. I'm in a forest. Who would know?

4. If something else happened, I'd be willing to accept that.

[strawberryman]

The button, I'd likely push it, because if I were walking through a forest I'd likely be bored, and this would pique my curiosity long enough.

With the slot machine, would the rewards for relevant matches be on a sign? <_<

[mercurymaline]

Yes.

1. It's likely to do nothing.

2. If it does destroy the planet, what do I care? Doesn't affect me at all.

3. I'm in a forest. Who would know?

4. If something else happened, I'd be willing to accept that.

But what if...the planet was Earth, in the past?!? Dun dun dun

[DamnedIrishman]

The neat thing about late stage leprosy: it's not painful. I think I could live with that and just keep pulling the lever til I arrived at eternal youth.

How about if it was incurable, extra voracious ebola then?


With the slot machine, would the rewards for relevant matches be on a sign? <_<

No, but the obese foot-stamping man knows and would happily tell you if you asked.


2. If it does destroy the planet, what do I care? Doesn't affect me at all.

It does if you're standing on it.

[InaVegt]

It does if you're standing on it.

It's quite clearly just an earth-like planet, not earth.

Even so, humanity is better off being destroyed.

[KnightDisciple]

I see no reason to push the button. Not pushing it clearly does nothing bad to me, the planet in the viewer, earth, etc.

Pushing it could have any number of consequences.

So yeah, no pushy.

[snoopy13a]

Inspired by GoC's thread, I remembered a hypothetical situation posed by my college philosophy prof:

Walking through a forest, you find an ancient tree. Embedded in the tree's trunk is a big red button. It's not glued or nailed to the trunk; it appears to actually be a part of the tree, somehow. The button is round, smooth, shiny and...well, irresistibly pushable. Above the button is a glass peephole. Looking into the peephole, you see a planet that looks much like Earth, though its continents are different. Below the button is a sign that reads PRESSING THIS BUTTON WILL DESTROY THIS PLANET, AND THE CIVILIZATION WHICH INHABITS IT.

Do you push the button?

I have a simple answer:

No

[strawberryman]

No, but the obese foot-stamping man knows and would happily tell you if you asked.

Well, then I'd probably pull the slots, too.

[Rutskarn]

Even so, humanity is better off being destroyed.

No, it's not.

Anyway--nah. That button could do anything, and I can live with not knowing a lot more than I could live with the consequences.

[DamnedIrishman]

Well, then I'd probably pull the slots, too.

So, not only would you risk the energy death of the universe, not only destroying all life but also preventing the possibility of life ever again existing, but you'd also risk becoming IMMORTAL and then causing the heat death of the universe, theoretically imprisoning you in conscious stasis forever, with nothing to do except your eventual descent into insanity?

[averagejoe]

Even so, humanity is better off being destroyed.

No it isn't.

Gosh, how does one resist pushing a big red button they find in the middle of the woods? Especially since the sign is basically a fancy way of saying, "Do not push." I think I'd have to push it. It's, like, a narrative rule or something. As I write this I have a strong desire to push a big red button.

[Rutskarn]

Gosh, how does one resist pushing a big red button they find in the middle of the woods? Especially since the sign is basically a fancy way of saying, "Do not push." I think I'd have to push it. It's, like, a narrative rule or something. As I write this I have a strong desire to push a big red button.

I think we should all carry around portable shiny red buttons. Like inhalers.

[Spiryt]

Well, obviously I would think it some kind of provocation/joke/TV show, and would press it just to see what planet destruction special effects they prepared.

[averagejoe]

I think we should all carry around portable shiny red buttons. Like inhalers.

That say, "Do not push."

[Blue Ghost]

Um, no. I don't see any reason to push it. As much as I am intellectually curious, there are safer outlets for my curiosity in the world.

[Recaiden]

I would not push the button. I might try to take it apart or cut down the tree. I wouldn't pull the slot machine either.

[SinisterPenguin]

No, I would not push the button, because I have no reason to push it. I can't think of anything that I would gain from pushing it.

[Logalmier]

I would push the button, and laugh as I watch their puny civilization crumble!

[Hell Puppi]

What's that Terry Pratchett quote about wizards who'll open anything no matter the sign to see what the fuss is about?

Yeah, that's me.

I'd push it.

[The Blackbird]

Damn just think of how many worlds I have blown up then. (http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=9644)

[Calmness]

Of course i'd push it. I mean if some jerks think they are going to scare me off with their "universal destruction" joke they are sadly mistaken. :smalltongue:

[SDF]

I'm thinking that people that say they wouldn't press it have no sense of adventure. The thing isn't even big enough for sentient life to be on it. Molecules are too big to form a cognitive central nervous system. The civilization it speaks of probably came out of the guys nose that put it there when he sneezed on it.

Sure nothing bad will happen if you don't press it. Nothing will happen. You also won't accidentally run someone over if you stay inside your house all day - every day. If you never interact with the world nothing bad will come of your interaction. Nothing will come of your interaction.

I'd stand back and poke the button with a stick in case the guy that put it there was a smart ass with a propensity for booby traps.

[Rutskarn]

According to my free-associative brain, this is relevant.

(Mild Half-Life 2, Episode 2 spoilers)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyQoD4_ycDs

[chiasaur11]

Well, yeah. I'd not press it. Maybe mention it to someone, or go back later to push it, but not right away.
Now, if a guy named Frank was with me...

well, I'm only human. And he'd get the blame anyway.

[Katrascythe]

I don't think that I would push the button. Why would I push the button to destroy the entirety of that civilization when I could persist their miserable lives, and then i could try to do experiments on them. It's like having a bunch of fire ants that I could mess with. A "God is a kid with an ant farm" scenario except this would be an "Evil overlord 5yo with an ant farm."

Then the scientist inside of me would want to see what these little buggers can do and then possible try to communicate with them and take whatever technology, art, philosophy that they have which we don't in this world.

1. Observe smarter being
2. Take tech
3. ???
4. Proft

That's what would happen if I actually thought about it. If I didn't think about it... *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke* *poke*

[DamnedIrishman]

I'm thinking that people that say they wouldn't press it have no sense of adventure.

If I wanted an adventure, I'd go on one. Why push the button? Sticking a foot in a bear trap would lead you on an adventure, but that doesn't mean you should do it. Unless you like mangled ankles, of course. It's a matter of justifiable risk.

If you want adventure, find something more exciting than a button. Go rob a bank dressed as the Cat in the Hat or something.

[Logalmier]

Damn just think of how many worlds I have blown up then. (http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=9644)

I bookmarked it.:smallbiggrin:

[Rutskarn]

I'm thinking that people that say they wouldn't press it have no sense of adventure.

Only if we're defining "adventure" by D&D terminology.

Adventure (noun): Visit Loot exotic places, meet kill interesting people, save ??? the world.

[strawberryman]

Only if we're defining "adventure" by D&D terminology.

Adventure (noun): Visit Loot exotic places, meet kill interesting people, save ??? the world.

I'd say "rape" the world, but then you might end up having to pay child support.

[chiasaur11]

I'd say "rape" the world, but then you might end up having to pay child support.

I believe the term you are looking for is "Ravish".

[strawberryman]

I believe the term you are looking for is "Ravish".

Fair enough.

[Tequila Sunrise]

I think we should all carry around portable shiny red buttons. Like inhalers.
This thread makes me laugh out loud.

To those of you who would press the button: isn't the existance of this button, in a place where no button should exist, evidence of the sign's validity?

To those of you who would not press the button: don't you always carry a 10' walking stick wherever you go?

[LurkerInPlayground]

Inspired by GoC's thread, I remembered a hypothetical situation posed by my college philosophy prof:

Walking through a forest, you find an ancient tree. Embedded in the tree's trunk is a big red button. It's not glued or nailed to the trunk; it appears to actually be a part of the tree, somehow. The button is round, smooth, shiny and...well, irresistibly pushable. Above the button is a glass peephole. Looking into the peephole, you see a planet that looks much like Earth, though its continents are different. Below the button is a sign that reads PRESSING THIS BUTTON WILL DESTROY THIS PLANET, AND THE CIVILIZATION WHICH INHABITS IT.

Do you push the button?
Is this a trick question? Which planet and civilization is it referring to? And why is it even a question of morality?

Yes, I think I'll just idly push a button which I know nothing about but which nonetheless advertises planetary destruction.

I also fail to see what a walking stick has to do with anything.

[Yarram]

I think I'd cut a hole in the tree, take the planet out then study it. Maybe command the whole planet to make supercomputers of miniscule size.

[V'icternus]

But what if...the planet was Earth, in the past?!? Dun dun dun

Then I guess I ****cked up big time, and I never existed to push the button, and the button was blown up before I pushed it, so it was never pushed, so it never exploded, which means I DID push it...

Infinite time loop. Oops.

[RS14]

I would push it with an eleven foot pole. :smalltongue:

It's obviously a trap.

[averagejoe]

To those of you who would press the button: isn't the existance of this button, in a place where no button should exist, evidence of the sign's validity?

From a purely logical standpoint, I'd say that it's stronger evidence that the button won't do anything. What's easier: creating a working transmitter that will activate some process that will completely destroy a planet with intelligent life that's so far unknown to the people who look for intelligent life on other planets, or attaching a dummy button to a tree and hanging a sign next to it? I don't usually like arguments using Occam's razor, but...

To philosophy professors: you ask very silly questions, and it's difficult to give anything but silly answers.

[Tequila Sunrise]

To philosophy professors: you ask very silly questions, and it's difficult to give anything but silly answers.
I remember some pretty silly answers from other students. One of them was a self professed and unashamed hedonist. "Of course I press the button, it'll make that satisfying click noise!"


I think I'd cut a hole in the tree, take the planet out then study it. Maybe command the whole planet to make supercomputers of miniscule size.
I should have thought about that peephole a little more. The planet wasn't supposed to be tiny; in fact in my prof's original scenario, there is no evidence of the planet at all. Other than the existance of the strange button and sign, of course, but I thought it would be too easy for you playgrounders to say "Obviously it's just a practical joke, there is no planet." So I added the peephole to provide evidence of this normal sized planet. Obviously, I could have used a better word. :smalltongue:

[averagejoe]

I remember some pretty silly answers from other students. One of them was a self professed and unashamed hedonist. "Of course I press the button, it'll make that satisfying click noise!"

Which begs the question: if he's a hedonist, what's he doing deep in the woods? :smalltongue:

[chiasaur11]

Which begs the question: if he's a hedonist, what's he doing deep in the woods? :smalltongue:

So...many...dirty...jokes...brain...overloading.

[LurkerInPlayground]

I should have thought about that peephole a little more. The planet wasn't supposed to be tiny; in fact in my prof's original scenario, there is no evidence of the planet at all. Other than the existance of the strange button and sign, of course, but I thought it would be too easy for you playgrounders to say "Obviously it's just a practical joke, there is no planet." So I added the peephole to provide evidence of this normal sized planet. Obviously, I could have used a better word. :smalltongue:
Then there's your answer. Sabotaging the question this way didn't really help your scenario since the whole point is that there isn't evidence of a planet.

[Eldariel]

I've lost the capacity to press red buttons with all the movies I've watched. And no, I wouldn't destroy a civilization for no reason. Chances are they'll destroy themselves and if they don't, a lot of good will come out of it. Either way, no reason to interfere.

[Coidzor]

I would try to take apart the tree. Probably wouldn't push the button, unless I got bored and was lost.

[V'icternus]

How could you not push it?! It's a big freakin' red button!

Red button: Push me! PUSH ME!!

[Coidzor]

How could you not push it?! It's a big freakin' red button!

Red button: Push me! PUSH ME!!

But I wanna know why it's on the tree! And what kind of tree it is. And if there's someone in the area who I need to shoot with a shotgun before they shoot me with a shotgun. And if Ashton Kutcher is around and I need to shoot him with a shotgun for setting up such a ridiculous episode of punk'd. Or whoever actually does that show. and I figure, hey... if I'm out in the woods like that I'd at least have a saw on me. Maybe even an axe and rope. Or mini-err...traveling companions.

[Tequila Sunrise]

It's a redwood-ironwood cross, so you'd need Hugh Jackman to cut it down. But then you'd have to put up with his ever-bare chest and rugged good looks.

[Eldariel]

It's a redwood-ironwood cross, so you'd need Hugh Jackman to cut it down. But then you'd have to put up with his ever-bare chest and rugged good looks.

So you make out while he cuts it down. I don't see the problem...?

[V'icternus]

...That's wrong on so many levels. I did not need that image in my head...

Bloody Hugh Jackman... makin' all us other guys look bad with his muscles and his hair and his movieness... that sexy jerk...