View Full Version : Question about a possible melee build

2009-05-09, 07:47 PM
Today I idly came up with this idea. I wanted some input.

Basically, the idea would be to have a Knight 3/Crusader 17. If you gave him Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), Stand Still (from XPH), and Defensive Sweep (from PHBII) and had him use the Thicket of Blades stance. You threaten out to 10 ft, with Defensive Sweep anyone who stays next to you for a round provokes an attack of opportunity, and with Thicket of Blades, anyone who moves other than by tumbling through your threatened area provokes an AoO, and you can stop them with Stand Still to get a full attack off next round. With 3 levels in Knight, anyone who starts their turn in your threatened area treats the entire area as difficult terrain, making it harder to move out. With the Entangling Blade maneuver you can even reduce their speed by 20.

I dunno if this has any practical use compared to smacking people with a two handed sword and power attack, so I'm just wondering what you guys think.

Keld Denar
2009-05-09, 08:16 PM
Its actually pretty common. The theme is generally considered "lockdown", or in other words, keeps foes from moving around too much while the rest of your party dispatches them. Your build is fairly decent, if a bit basic. Other variations include things like Psychic Warrior to take advantage of Expansion which increases your threatened range geometrically, with the possibility of venturing into Warmind for Sweeping Strikes. Alternatively, some builds focus on tripping to keep foes locked down. Lots of different builds, but one general theme, to keep enemies from moving where you don't want them to.

2009-05-09, 08:44 PM
Thanks for the information.

2009-05-09, 09:53 PM
I prefer to take my first level in a ToB class at Character level 1 or 5. With this, I'd consider a 1-level Fighter, Monk, Warlock or Cleric dip just to delay Crusader 1.

(With enforced multiclass penalties, another level of Knight or Human or Half-Elf Paragon would beat the early Crusader level IMO.)

2009-05-10, 03:07 AM
and with Thicket of Blades, anyone who moves other than by tumbling through your threatened area provokes an AoO Actually, according to the FAQ, this also provokes an AoO.
If you are in the thicket of blades stance and an opponent tumbles past you, do you get an attack of opportunity?
Yes, you can make an attack of opportunity even if an opponent uses Tumble or other types of movement that would normally not allow you to make them, such as the Spring Attack feat. Do note that this is an arbitrary choice on the part of the FAQ author. Both the Thicket of Blades stance and Tumble skill descriptions are absolute in their statements of capabilities. Personally I think it's seriously remiss of the Tome of Battle authors to not address core abilities in the Thicket of Blades writeup, so I'd go the opposite way here and take Tumble and Spring Attack as written unless specifically countermanded.

2009-05-10, 03:18 AM
Looking at absolutes, hm.

The first ones state that they are movement types that don't provoke AoO's, unlike most movement.

Thicket of blades states that all movement provokes. It was printed more recently, so I would assume it takes into account previous forms of movement. It also addresses other forms of movement that normally don't provoke (5 foot step) and states that they do.

I think it seems pretty sensible to say that when thicket of blades says that any movement provokes, it means it.

2009-05-10, 03:45 AM
I would say that one could tumble, spring attack, maneuver, etc. through a thicket of blades excepting the five foot step and withdraw action as these are specifically noted to not work in the stance. If the stance said something like movement in your threatened area that would not normally provoke an AOO does provoke an AOO from you I would have it work on all movement. But as this issue is not resolved anywhere to the best of my knowledge this is just my opinion.