PDA

View Full Version : Are d20 Modern and DnD power levels equal?



overduegalaxy
2009-05-10, 09:35 PM
The systems are obviously inherently compatible, but do their power levels scale up the same?

I've been mulling over the idea of a campaign based after some great cataclysm to our world in the near future. I haven't decided which role the PCs would take yet, but they'd either have been cryogenically frozen/raised in a vault (ala Fallout)/some other event so they'd have equipment from the "old" world, or have discovered some fairly well preserved ruins from the old world.

In a nutshell, it means the PCs would either have classes and gear from d20 Modern while fighting a barbaric people who've arisen in the meantime who have class levels and gear from DnD, or the PCs would use DnD classes, but have access to high tech gear such as modern firearms and armor, although in limited quantities.

I imagine firearms would throw things out of balance a little bit, but beyond that, are there any inherent problems that I may be overlooking?

Knaight
2009-05-10, 10:06 PM
D&D characters hugely outclass d20 modern characters. Take a look at the respective massive damage rules in the systems. Then consider what could be done with a 2nd level human fighter focusing on optimizing power attack. Spells are more than enough to counter firearms, even large ones.

Myrmex
2009-05-11, 12:40 AM
Fire arms are total crap in the D20 system.

Remmirath
2009-05-11, 02:36 AM
The power levels aren't even close, in my opinion. D&D power levels are far above D20 Modern ones. It doesn't get so very glaring unless you're planning on hitting epic level, though. (One of the campaigns I'm currently playing in is an epic level campaign that actually started out at 1st level in D20 Modern, and then this whole dimensional rift thing happened allowing in other worlds, and now we've got both D20 Modern and D&D characters running around... well, mostly D&D characters now, because the D20M ones have pretty much all died off by now.)

So, basically, if you do the first option, expect the PCs to have a really hard time of it. Not saying it's impossible, just hard.
The main thing is that it's very easy to get your damage up in D&D - but it's rather hard in D20 Modern, especially if you're using a gun. Straight 3d8 gets outclassed by any fool picking up a melee weapon pretty quick, and by the time you get to being able to have more like 4d8+4, it's even worse. And then after that it just doesn't get better, whereas the melee guy can keep throwing on more power attack, getting stronger, etc.

As far as I know, the only advantage D20 Modern characters have over D&D characters is the class bonus to armour class. If you made both sides use the same feat list it'd probably help even things out.
If you did some serious house-ruling to firearms it might help, too.

I'm really not sure how D&D prestige classes stack up against D20 Modern ones, since I'm not really much of a prestige class person in D&D. I'm guessing they're better, but I don't know.

And if you're using magic - dunno if you would be - D20M classes are all quite useless at magic (never getting above 5th level spells), and that would put the D20M side at an even huger disadvantage. Well, assuming it was high enough level to make a difference, that is. It wouldn't really matter at tenth or under.

Baalthazaq
2009-05-11, 06:39 AM
I've not really tried D20M, but assuming a similar system: Would it be possibly to multiclass into DnD classes from a D20M class?

RPing wise it shouldn't be a problem, they're in a new world with trainers they can find to teach them new things. Go to a monastery to capitalize on the +Level to AC bonus they get from being D20 Modern chars maybe?

Take TWF and all the ranged bonus feats for a nice gunslinger maybe that can't really be done in DnD? Allow them to have their guns enchanted like DnD weapons?

Olo Demonsbane
2009-05-11, 11:00 AM
Dont try to combine gaming systems. The one time one of my DMs did, his Starwars guy got thrown into the dirt by my gish-necromancer and my friend's Awakened Iron Golem Fighter. d20 Modern would probably be even worse, because Starwars is higher tech than d20M.

Callos_DeTerran
2009-05-11, 11:52 AM
At lower levels? A d20 modern character can make about even with a D&D character depending on what level of equipment they have access too. A lucky d20 Modern character can score M2HB heavy machine gun (assuming a military license) and at level 1 pump out 4d12 damage at a range increment of 110 feat with a +1 attack bonus (strong hero, 18 dex) and do that as long as they have bullets too instead of waiting for fickle battle conditions (flanking) or a limited number of times (spell slots). A melee d20 modern character will edge out a D&D melee fighter by, pretty much, exactly one point of damage thanks to Melee Smash and using power attack too. More if they are willing to tote around a chainsaw or katana (3d6/20 and 2d6/19-20 respectfully). Again, these are at low levels. d20 modern characters can also diversify their abilities more (it's almost foolhardy not to fit a Fast Hero dip into your build for the +3 bonus to AC ((even Touch)) and Evasion) which means even some of the more heavily armed or bookish types will be dodging fireballs, grenades, etc.

But once it gets beyond say...level 5 (being cautious) D&D characters will over take d20 modern characters and by a fair deal too. By 5th level a d20 modern character (if they go into Mage or Occultist) might have 1st and 2nd level spells and only be slightly more durable then a normal mage. A melee character's BAB slows and the lack of magic items (assuming a pure d20 modern character to a pure D&D character) really begins to hurt. A fighter will likely have at least a +1 weapon and armor, plus other misc. stuff and a rogue's sneak attack becomes more handy. A ranger will have an animal companion (not even considering a druid!) and so on.

Now...if the d20 modern characters are allowed access to D&D feats, base classes, PrCs to compliment their own advanced, and magical items (maybe even get their own enchanted) then the gap is less obvious especially in non-spell ranged combat. A gunslinger won't have the same range as a longbow (depending on a gun) but they'll be able to pump out as much damage (maybe more if they go into rogue and gunslinger both). Melee combat still remains the sole province of a D&D character past 5th level with a d20 modern MAYBE being able to briefly match a barbarian's level for a much shorter amount of time and far less often (and only with the proper choice of Advanced Classes). Spell combat is a no brainer. d20 modern mages/acolytes get access to a couple spells I don't THINK wizards and their ilk get but they are aren't nearly enough to make them a match for one another. At the end of the day, 5th level spells are still 5th level spells even if some are strong for 5th level spells.

When you open up PrCs from other d20 modern sources though to D&D characters, then you might get some problems with barbarians raging/frenzying/adrenline-surging their Strength through the rough, wizards/ sorcerers with major image an unlimited number of times per day and so forth.

So in other words, with an adequate supply of bullets and the access to d20 modern and D&D feats, d20 modern characters can corner the market on non-spell ranged combat but otherwise they really fall behind the curve after level five. They might be a bit more flexible then D&D counterparts, but not enough to make a huge difference. Add in more futuristic tech, then it might become unbalancing but I really doubt it.