652 is not a butt-kicking

[eras10]

Even though it feels like one. And even though, yes, the long-run outcome may be negligible harm to Team Evil. (well, except for the Turning of the MiTD, with long-run effects unknown.. stay tuned)

It was, instead, Xykon escaping death by a fingernail.
This isn't unusual - from what I hear, most high-level magic fights turn on that fingernail's worth of difference.

Given Xykon's immunities, from what I can tell, direct damage is the only way to go. Along those lines, seems like Empowered Sunburst maxes out at 37d6, for an average damage of 111. A 24'th level Sorcerer Lich would have 24d10 HD, so, being realistic.. 60-200 HP, most likely towards the high side.. even at max HP, two rounds of Empowered Sunburst would have been enough to clean his clock.

So, in conclusion, Xykon cheated death by an eyelash. As usual. The wasting of the surprise round and a Maximized Energy Drain up X's sleeve makes the difference.

I don't see a lot of early recognition of just how close this was, so I thought I'd put in my two cents.

[Felyndiira]

That only applies, though, if the two epic wizards are still level 25 at the end of the first energy drain, and if Xykon didn't make his reflex save...lol.

Now that I think about it, though, V has made a lot of very good decisions in that battle. Sunburst for lich, chain lightning to remove traps, quickened dimensional anchor to prevent Xykon from escaping after the first sunburst, time stop to pop delayed blast fireballs; V should have won that battle if the traps were not set (and would have won that battle if hir casted spell turning and a contingency beforehand).

[Snake-Aes]

Even though it feels like one. And even though, yes, the long-run outcome may be negligible harm to Team Evil. (well, except for the Turning of the MiTD, with long-run effects unknown.. stay tuned)

It was, instead, Xykon escaping death by a fingernail.
This isn't unusual - from what I hear, most high-level magic fights turn on that fingernail's worth of difference.

Given Xykon's immunities, from what I can tell, direct damage is the only way to go. Along those lines, seems like Empowered Sunburst maxes out at 37d6, for an average damage of 111. A 24'th level Sorcerer Lich would have 24d10 HD, so, being realistic.. 60-200 HP, most likely towards the high side.. even at max HP, two rounds of Empowered Sunburst would have been enough to clean his clock.

So, in conclusion, Xykon cheated death by an eyelash. As usual. The wasting of the surprise round and a Maximized Energy Drain up X's sleeve makes the difference.

I don't see a lot of early recognition of just how close this was, so I thought I'd put in my two cents."How close this was" means "not close at all". V had 1 round to make a difference. Empowered sunburst just wouldn't kill Xykon right away(and won't anymore either), and redcloak has yet to do a thing. RC can outheal any damage v deals using similar high level spell slots, and that is not counting popping a summon or two to keep V busy.

Also, notice how Xykon doesn't seem to be harmed. My bet is some kind of temporary hp beef.

[Dagren]

"How close this was" means "not close at all". V had 1 round to make a difference. Empowered sunburst just wouldn't kill Xykon right away(and won't anymore either), and redcloak has yet to do a thing. RC can outheal any damage v deals using similar high level spell slots, and that is not counting popping a summon or two to keep V busy.I think you're overestimating this. Harm is a touch range spell, after all, and Xykon is well out of Redcloak's touch reach. And if he lands next to him for healing, he is just presenting a juicy target for a meteor swarm. Remember, the fight is not over yet. (although I doubt V will be able to recover and still pull off a win, it is possible)

[King of Nowhere]

"How close this was" means "not close at all". V had 1 round to make a difference. Empowered sunburst just wouldn't kill Xykon right away(and won't anymore either), and redcloak has yet to do a thing. RC can outheal any damage v deals using similar high level spell slots, and that is not counting popping a summon or two to keep V busy.

Also, notice how Xykon doesn't seem to be harmed. My bet is some kind of temporary hp beef.

Jirix don't seems to be harmed, too, despite taking a secondary lightning for 10 d6 damage (saving throw unlikely). And he can't be too high level.
Redcloak seems unaffected, too, but he's high level, so 10 d6 aren't really a deal for him.
So, it is official: damage are not always shown.
It is also official: the Crimson Mante don't give immunity to electricity

And by the way, Xykon surely took some damage, but maybe has some resistance to it. Maybe enough resistance to take 2 hits without dieing, maybe 3.

[Snake-Aes]

After two drains, I'm not sure those souls still have their 9th level spells. -2d4-8 levels to each soul is nasty. If Archsorcerer lost his epic spells, he can't be higher than 12 anymore, so his spells are more or less out. Gan's caster level probably isn't much better either. After 10\16 negative levels, for him to still have 9ths means he had to be, at worst, 27 or 28.

[DnDgeek13]

i can't help but point out that energy drain is exactly how Xykon defeated Dorokan. that spell will probably be V's undoing. i predict that Xykon only has enough spell slots for enough energy drains to get rid of V's soul splice's spells and thus they will become worthless and V, if he has any common sense, will get rid of them there on the spot. the only question at that point is how does V get back?

[Ancalagon]

Given Xykon's immunities, from what I can tell, direct damage is the only way to go. Along those lines, seems like Empowered Sunburst maxes out at 37d6, for an average damage of 111. A 24'th level Sorcerer Lich would have 24d10 HD, so, being realistic.. 60-200 HP, most likely towards the high side.. even at max HP, two rounds of Empowered Sunburst would have been enough to clean his clock.

So, in conclusion, Xykon cheated death by an eyelash. As usual. The wasting of the surprise round and a Maximized Energy Drain up X's sleeve makes the difference.

Don't forget he gained hitpoints due to the energy drains, 5 per drained level. So he got 2d4+8 (let's assume 12) * 5 HPs = 60 HPs, if his spell affected BOTH soulsplices fully, he'd gained 12 * 2 * 5 HPs, which would be 120 (temporary) HPs. I guess that should make up for the sunburst or even create a buffer above his normal maximum HPs.

[Snake-Aes]

Don't forget he gained hitpoints due to the energy drains, 5 per drained level. So he got 2d4+8 (let's assume 12) * 5 HPs = 60 HPs, if his spell affected BOTH soulsplices fully, he'd gained 12 * 2 * 5 HPs, which would be 120 (temporary) HPs. I guess that should make up for the sunburst or even create a buffer above his normal maximum HPs.

Energy drain does not empower the caster, and the undead beef only happens to undead victims of the spell, not the caster.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Xykon does not seem blind to me-so he made his reflex save vs the Sunburst. Empowered Sunburst vs Xykon is 30d6 or an average of 105 points of damage. Half that is 52 points of damage. Xykon is 26th level and, assuming average HP, he can take 174 points of damage before being destroyed.

So, he can resist 3 Empowered Sunbursts assuming he makes his saves or two of he makes one save and doesn't make the other.

[Ancalagon]

Energy drain does not empower the caster, and the undead beef only happens to undead victims of the spell, not the caster.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels

You COULD argue that applies to the spell as well...

edit: Ah, damnit, you could not. Overlooked the stuff in the brackets... ;)

[DougTheHead]

This strip really seemed to depend on the philosophy of Sun-Tzu as much as D&D rules- specifically, the part of Sun-Tzu's philosophy that says, NEVER engage your enemy on their own ground if you can help it. Home-field advantage is a very real thing in war and D&D; when you attack someone in their stronghold, you're fighting on their terms. That was the biggest mistake V made, compounded by the fact that s/he apparently didn't have a backup strategy in case s/he was hit harder than expected.

Going after Xykon in his throne room requires foresight, planning, and knowledge of his strengths and weaknesses. The first time through, the Order had just enough of these to get by when combined with some plot-sauce. This time, V has none of them. It shouldn't be much of a surprise she's getting hammered (especially considering that the plot-sauce is on Xykon's side for this fight).

[King of Nowhere]

It is also possible that the drained levels are divided among the two souls.
Seems in line with the writing of the spell (on a multiclass, the first level drained is the higher, and the splice treated as multiclass). In that case, V would still be up fighting. Otherwise, goodbye V.

[ref]

I stopped reading at 111, because it must be said. The average of 37d6 is not 111. It's 129.5

The average of 24d10, btw, is 132.

[King of Nowhere]

I stopped reading at 111, because it must be said. The average of 37d6 is not 111. It's 129.5

The average of 24d10, btw, is 132.

Liches got d12 as hit dice. So it don't change. Still 2 spells needed. Assuming Xykon don't have some damage reduction

[Dagren]

After two drains, I'm not sure those souls still have their 9th level spells. -2d4-8 levels to each soul is nasty. If Archsorcerer lost his epic spells, he can't be higher than 12 anymore, so his spells are more or less out. Gan's caster level probably isn't much better either. After 10\16 negative levels, for him to still have 9ths means he had to be, at worst, 27 or 28.Energy drain doesn't work like that. At most, each caster has lost 16 spell slots, not levels. Granted, this is a lot, so they may have lost their 9th level spells, but if they were split, that's only a maximum of 8 slots lost, and if Xykon only rolled average for the first energy drain, they would each only lose 6-7. Given that their higher level slots (10th+) go first, it would depend on how many slots they had to begin with, and Jephton for one will have a lot. Just saying, Jephton doesn't have to have been reduced to level 12, since it doesn't work like that.

[B9anders]

Energy drain doesn't work like that. At most, each caster has lost 16 spell slots, not levels. Granted, this is a lot, so they may have lost their 9th level spells, but if they were split, that's only a maximum of 8 slots lost, and if Xykon only rolled average for the first energy drain, they would each only lose 6-7. Given that their higher level slots (10th+) go first, it would depend on how many slots they had to begin with, and Jephton for one will have a lot. Just saying, Jephton doesn't have to have been reduced to level 12, since it doesn't work like that.

Even when split between the two, how many epic level spells would we expect them to have for them to survive an energy drain? I'm surprised the conjurer isn't all out.

And regardless, Jehpton has levels as an archmage, which means he would need to be proportionally higher level to gain high level slots.

[Dagren]

Even when split between the two, how many epic level spells would we expect them to have for them to survive an energy drain? I'm surprised the conjurer isn't all out.I just said, it isn't just the epic slots that go first, it's also the 10th or 11th ones. If they have 12th level slots, that's even more to go first. Couple that with the possibility (probability?) that the level drain was split between them, and it's entirely possible that they still have 9th level spells.

[tyckspoon]

I just said, it isn't just the epic slots that go first, it's also the 10th or 11th ones. If they have 12th level slots, that's even more to go first. Couple that with the possibility (probability?) that the level drain was split between them, and it's entirely possible that they still have 9th level spells.

Well... assuming both Ganonron and Jephton have Epic Spellcasting and normal 10th level spell slots, and that the Energy Drain effects are divided between them instead of affecting each fully (I'm also assuming a best-case scenario, so if it was possible for a spell to have been cast by Haerta before she left I will assume it was. And also assume her leaving didn't end anything she cast.) Also assuming they do not have access to 11th or higher slots, since if they did they probably would have cast them already:

Ronny must be at least level 23 (level 21 Epic Spellcasting, level 23 Epic Wizard Bonus Improved Spell Capacity.) Jephton must be at least 24 (taking Archmage levels means he isn't getting or is delayed in gettng Sorcerer Epic Bonus Feats, so his feats have to be picked at the normal every three levels.) That could be significant, because it means any odd levels on a split drain will go to Jephton- he'll lose one more spell slot than Ganon.

I'm assuming a base of 2 Epic Spell Slots and 2 standard 10th level slots for both Ganon and Jeff. That requires a casting stat of at least 30, which is a little difficult to achieve without items but not impossible (easier for Jeff, as he probably has at least one age-category adjustment.) Ganon used most of his before ever being touched by an Energy Drain- both Epic Teleports have to come from him, as well as the Quickened Chain Lightning (since Sorcerers cannot normally use Quicken.) That leaves one 10th level slot to be eaten before he starts losing 9th levels. The worst case scenario is that he has to suffer 8 negative levels, so up to 7 9th level slots get burnt. The best case is 5 negative levels killing 4 9th level spells. We know he has used one already to attempt a Time Stop (and it would be a fair guess that the Time Stop in the dragon fight was his as well.) That leaves him at most 5 9th level spell slots (4 normal, 1 specialization bonus, 1 stat bonus) to absorb 4-7 negative levels.. Ganon almost certainly has no Epic, 10th, or 9th level slots remaining, and probably has taken a hit to his 8th level.

Jephton cannot be 100% determined to have cast *any* of his Epic or 10th level slots yet (and we know he didn't use any of the Epic), although given the above conclusion it's probably safe to say the Empowered Sunburst was his. So 8 negative levels to him eat his 3 remaining 10th level slots, 5 start working on his 9th. Jephton should have at least 7 9th level slots, so he probably has a couple left.. of course, he only knows 3 9th level spells. Hopefully one of them is useful, he won't have much time left before the next Energy Drain pulls those off too. Alternately, a couple of the previous 9th level spells (Shapechange, perhaps) came from Jephton and he too is out of 9th level slots. Or, if Xykon rolled low on the first Drain and Jephton has been holding most of his power in reserve, Jeff could still have 4 or so 9th level slots.