Why did V become an Evoker?

[Chirios]

Why didn't V choose Transmutation or Conjuration as his specialised school? Surely that would be more in line with his character type, the ability to change the course of a battle by essentially removing your foe's ability to fight?

[Morty]

Because for all his haughtiness and intellectualism, V's preferred method of solving a problem is to hammer at it until it dies. He just puts it in fancier words than Xykon, Belkar or Thog.

[Kish]

Why didn't V choose Transmutation or Conjuration as his specialised school? Surely that would be more in line with his character type, the ability to change the course of a battle by essentially removing your foe's ability to fight?

That's not their character type. Their character type is the ability to change the course of the battle by blasting your foe to ash.

Too many people are locked into "wizard=Batman." But Vaarsuvius loves their blasting spells.

[BardicLasher]

The purpose of Vaarsuvius is to flip out and kill things.
Vaarsuvius fights all the time.
Vaarsuvius is a mammal.



Yeah, really, as was said... V is not... subtle, and Evocation is about as unsubtle as it gets. Any of the other schools would require magics that people can pass of as tricks of some sort. V wants V's magic to be as loud as possible so that others have no choice but to bow before V's might.

[Kool-Aid]

His master was also an evoker, so that probably influenced him to follow in his footsteps.

Also, blowing stuff up is FUN.

[Chirios]

That's not their character type. Their character type is the ability to change the course of the battle by blasting your foe to ash.

Too many people are locked into "wizard=Batman." But Vaarsuvius loves their blasting spells.

I meant personality type.

[Kish]

So did I.

What about Vaarsuvius' personality has ever shown a greater interest in removing their foes' ability to fight than in making their foes dead? What was the first sixth-level spell they cast (Disintegrate, a Transmutation blasting spell)? What was their first demonstration of significant magical power (a flurry of mostly-Evocations against a chimera)? Vaarsuvius is and has always been a blaster wizard.

[Raging Gene Ray]

What about Vaarsuvius' personality has ever shown a greater interest in removing their foes' ability to fight than in making their foes dead? What was the first sixth-level spell they cast (Disintegrate, a Transmutation blasting spell)? What was their first demonstration of significant magical power (a flurry of mostly-Evocations against a chimera)? Vaarsuvius is and has always been a blaster wizard.

This. Why would V NOT be an Evoker? The only time shi used that whole "removing your opponents ability to fight" was with the giant demon Qarr summoned, and only then it was after blasting proved ineffective.

V's character is also a wizard who believes arcane power solves EVERYTHING. What better way to illustrate that then with the biggest, blastiest, killing-you-ist magicks in the PHB?

[The MunchKING]

Why didn't V choose Transmutation or Conjuration as his specialised school? Surely that would be more in line with his character type, the ability to change the course of a battle by essentially removing your foe's ability to fight?

She wanted more BOOM spells?? :smallconfused:

[Querzis]

V is arrogant. V is impatient. V is agressive. V is really not subtle. V can be very cruel.

In other words, V is really brash. Nothing sums up V personnality better then the word brash as far as I'm concerned. He just cant be anything else then a blaster, it just woudnt match his style and personnality.

[Da'Shain]

I was under the impression that V was an evoker because it was a far better school in 3.0, and he got screwed by the change to 3.5?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Batman doesnt really work well for "Magic solves everything", if you disable your opponent you have to rely on non magical people, such as fighters, to mop up your opponents.

[ericgrau]

^ Ya, that's one good reason. Conjuration and transmutation both rely on allies for maximum effectiveness. Mopping up by yourself or buffing yourself is only so-so.

Or because 650 strips ago evocation was considered the most powerful school around and great for blasting things. Lately opinions changed and the internet solution was then to bash the main competitor, evocation, so hard that the claim became that evocation is the worst school.

Vaarsuvius banned conjuration because in 3.0, teleport wasn't part of conjuration. "Batman" isn't really teleport reliant and 3.0 haste was even stronger than 3.5 haste. This is odd now that I think about it b/c the dead epic conjurer/teleporter should have been under 3.0 or older rules. Unless he died recently... but then when was he the scourge of 1000 worlds? Which worlds? Meh, who cares. References to older editions are mostly only good for jokes anyway.

[krossbow]

Or because 650 strips ago evocation was considered the most powerful school around and great for blasting things. Lately opinions changed and the internet solution was then to bash the main competitor, evocation, so hard that the claim became that evocation is the worst school.



Its because, once you start cheesing it up with feats and ways to improve the DC of spells, it is. Hell, even pre cheats, most high level non-evocation spells are pretty cheap. Time stop, Gate, energy drain, ect. Cone of cold and the like pale in comparison to some of the OP stuff the other classes have.


On V:
Evocation is, in short, the first thing that most people think of casters doing in battle. This is partially due to video games, partially due to how people think. Nuking someone with fire and ray abilities seem like they should be the quickest way to take someone down to most people. The problem is that damage of most evocationist spells are subpar, and some of the best outright damage spells (disintegrate, orb spells) aren't even Evocation!

Evoking is a natural choice, and it makes logical sense as a path before you examine their damage. Evocation magic in the order of the stick universe seems MUCH closer to how most people envision it; V has been able to nuke to death most enemies with frightening ease. its just that, anywhere else, using the spells as they exist, V's specialization is just outright illconcieved as a path.

In order to compete with Save or die spells, Evocation has to have similiar risk to its targets; that is, in order to equal conjuration or enchantment, evocation has to have the possibility to outright kill its target. In Normal 3.0/3.5 that is not true.
The problem is that evocation was not incredibly overpowered; the other schools were. Its not really a problem of evocation, just an inherent issue with the other schools balancewise.

[Berserk Monk]

Two reasons:

1) It suits the party and plot better (they need some arcane fire power).

2)OtooPC spoiler:
His master was an evoker

[Prak]

v is the type of caster that, when they hear about fireball for the first time as an apprentice says "OMGWTFBOOM!" and sets out to learn how to cast fireball, as much as possible. Regardless of the fact that conjuration can do evocation's job so much better, and a generalist wizard=batman.

[Fishman]

Why Evoker? That's not hard to understand at all. Evoker is pretty much the wizard choice of newbies. I mean, when you think of wizards in an unfamiliar gamesystem, you think "fireballs", right? Wizards are about lobbing fireballs. All that other fancy stuff comes about only when you learn the rules and figure out that there's more you can do than throwing fireballs at things. That's all fine and good, but V doesn't have the benefit of being able to learn the rules before picking his class, so FIREBALLS. I mean, just think about what you do when you play a new, unfamiliar gamesystem as a wizard: What's the first thing you're going to do? Start lobbing fireballs or similar at stuff, right?

[The MunchKING]

Why Evoker? That's not hard to understand at all. Evoker is pretty much the wizard choice of newbies. I mean, when you think of wizards in an unfamiliar gamesystem, you think "fireballs", right?

Nah I think "Turn my foes into newts!" Then I think "Or Maybe frogs. I could go for some fried frog legs..." :smallbiggrin:

[Fishman]

Nah I think "Turn my foes into newts!" Then I think "Or Maybe frogs. I could go for some fried frog legs..." :smallbiggrin:Yeah, but that never works in a game. You know that. Save-to-negate attacks have always received bad press under most gamesystems, because they never freaking work when you care for them to work at all. All the fancy stuff is just stuff you'd never think to try unless you were just bored or heard of it someplace else. Fireballs and other damaging attacks are the staples of gaming. Everything else, like Vanish/Doom, is an exploit. When you first try to play, you're not looking for exploits, and you don't have enough of a difficulty margin to look for them.

[The MunchKING]

<-----------------------


Look at the name.

I ALWAYS look for exploits. :smallbiggrin:


But yeah I think transformations are a staple of fantasy wizards... If a game can't handle that, then it didn't handle wizards well. :smalltongue:

[Hallavast]

V became an Evoker, because Rich wanted a wizard that used simple, easily recognized, flashy spells that would not make the protagonist party's wizard too powerful. I personally think this was a good decision as far as managing the character within the story goes.

However, I would love to hear V explain her choice from her own perspective ... in more detail than "I likes to blow **** up!"

[Shatteredtower]

V became an evoker because it was the style of magic that is most effectively portrayed within a visual medium. It's hard to demonstrate the difference between castings of charm person and suggestion in a fashion that's simple or obvious. The same goes for finger of death and energy drain, or minor image and major image, or many of the transmutation spells. Abjuration and divination are right out. Efforts to make the differences clear from the visuals can make things overly complicated.

But it's not hard to distinguish between magic missile, fireball, and lightning bolt, or even between chain lightning and lightning bolt or fireball and meteor swarm. This won't work for every spell in the school, but light has been about as relevant as torches thus far. What matters is that the school's spells tend to be easy to portray in a fashion that lets the reader tell them apart and still have a fair idea of what they do based on the visual alone.

Okay, but why specialize? Well, that comes down to making sure that conjuration doesn't crowd the page. That it also prevents the party from skipping out on plot events (missing Miko by teleporting back to town with the dragon's treasure, for example, or jumping straight to Shojo upon meeting Miko) is merely an (un)happy coincidence, depending on whether you're a reader or a party member.

Hey, if everyone else gets to chip at the fourth wall, it's only fair that V gets a few blasts at it as well, right? :smallwink:

[Snake-Aes]

Nah I think "Turn my foes into newts!" Then I think "Or Maybe frogs. I could go for some fried frog legs..." :smallbiggrin:

Plum Puddings > Newts. In the first world I played a lot ( a national one, top one here so far ), arcane casters learned in the most traditional school started with this humble spell: Transformation in Plum Pudding.

[TreesOfDeath]

Because for all his haughtiness and intellectualism, V's preferred method of solving a problem is to hammer at it until it dies. He just puts it in fancier words than Xykon, Belkar or Thog.

QFT.
Also its shown V does like blowing things up. He genuinel enjoys spells like explosive ruin, and fireball (such as when he tried to intimadate Roy in OTPCs)

[Underground]

None of the OotS party members is really optimized (well, maybe Roy is), so the fact that the party wizard is the most boring and obvious choice of wizard specialist is no huge news either.

[Snake-Aes]

None of the OotS party members is really optimized (well, maybe Roy is), so the fact that the party wizard is the most boring and obvious choice of wizard specialist is no huge news either.

Roy would be a better cleric actually. High wisdom, reasonable charisma, the usual stuff. Maybe even a theurge since he's got good int too.

[factotum]

I suspect there was some forethought went into this choice, to be honest. If V had not banned Conjuration then he would perforce have had Teleport--no wizard would forego that spell given a choice--and that would have negated this entire story arc; V could have just teleported to his old master and sicced him on the black dragon without needing to sell his soul at all. Rich knew this, and so he had to prevent V using that spell somehow.

It helped that most of the stuff we saw V doing in the early comic was blasting, so making him an Evoker with a banned school of Conjuration fitted in beautifully to what we'd already seen. (The only fly in the ointment being Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion, but since that's a homebrew spell Rich can easily have it NOT be in Conjuration, like Evard's Black Tentacles is).

[Milandros]

If you step back away from the powergaming approach and think in people terms, evoker isn't that bad a choice for the "like to blow things up" type of wizard. You get to throw about lots of spells that go kablam and kaboom. They're flash, crowd-pleasing spells that show off your immense power and make people stand in awe of you far more than a stinking cloud would.

Also, lots of people never start characters below 16th level (some never even consider a character design below 20th), so they automatically hear "A 20th level..." in front of any character comparison. These characters didn't start that way - they weren't born as 14th level wizards, they started at first level. When you roll up a first level character, evoker seems like a lot better option than some others. You may claim that conjuror is better, but I'll happily put up a 4th level PHB evoker against your 4th level PHB conjuror :) It wasn't until the "Orb" spells from the Spell Compendium appeared that that Conjurers had great low level attack options.

It's a bit like the "fact" that fighters are desperately underpowered compared to wizards. These comparisons always seem to assume 20th level characters, on a large featureless plain, with buffs pre-cast, and the wizards already greater invisibilitied and flying. A combat between a third level fighter with a third level wizard in a 20' across room, where the fighter wins initiative through his improved initiative feat likely ends one half of a round later with the wizard dead. It's not until 9th level or so that the wizard starts to overtake the fighter - and that depends on the individual characters and their equipment.

[krossbow]

I

Also, lots of people never start characters below 16th level (some never even consider a character design below 20th), so they automatically hear "A 20th level..." in front of any character comparison. These characters didn't start that way - they weren't born as 14th level wizards, they started at first level. When you roll up a first level character, evoker seems like a lot better option than some others. You may claim that conjuror is better, but I'll happily put up a 4th level PHB evoker against your 4th level PHB conjuror :) It wasn't until the "Orb" spells from the Spell Compendium appeared that that Conjurers had great low level attack options.



Hah; at level one with the correct feats and race, my enchanter with his sleep spell and trusty scythe for coup de graces makes battles cake. Not to mention grease :smallbiggrin:.

[Logalmier]

You may claim that conjuror is better, but I'll happily put up a 4th level PHB evoker against your 4th level PHB conjuror :) It wasn't until the "Orb" spells from the Spell Compendium appeared that that Conjurers had great low level attack options.

Yeah, in my game the Orb spells are evocation. Having them become conjuration makes no sense.

I've actually had a lot of fun playing an evoker, and I wouldn't say that it's really that underpowered. Sure, there once in a while cam along someone with fire resistance, or a good reflex save. And yeah, conjurer probably would've been a little more powerful. But I still managed to deal 128 points of damage per round when I hit epic level. 128 points of damage, to everyone within 30 feet. Which is pretty powerful in of itself.

[mistformsquirrl]

I suspect it's for the same reason that I like evocation:

Blowin *#%! up is fun.

>.> I'm the wizardly equivalent of a hillbilly with a shotgun.

"Hey ya'll, watch this!" *boom*

<._.> There is nothing better.

[Trizap]

because there is the serious wizard which uses their spells wisely, like using divination spells to gain knowledge about the enemy and become a tactical commander that commands those under him to fight according to his knowledge, or the summoner which summons big monsters right in the middle
of the enemy's army, ensuing chaos, or someone who teleports an assassin right next to the target for an easy kill, or the wizard who deceives the enemy
with illusions to make the wrong decisions, or the wizard who simply enhances his friends into super-soldiers, making them one man armies.

then there is that crazy wizard over there who says "LETS BLOW EM' UP!!!"

(oh and, put all these wizards onto the same side, and watch them conquer whatever foe they face by combining all their magic together)

[derfenrirwolv]

Also, i dont know if anyone's noticed, but oots fights seem to have alot of mooks. If thats the sort of fight your DM throws against you alot, evoker for massive AOE damage isn't a bad idea.

[krossbow]

Also, i dont know if anyone's noticed, but oots fights seem to have alot of mooks. If thats the sort of fight your DM throws against you alot, evoker for massive AOE damage isn't a bad idea.


True that; their first battle against xycon with the room full of mooks must have taken forever to roll out.

[Optimystik]

I was under the impression that V was an evoker because it was a far better school in 3.0, and he got screwed by the change to 3.5?

No, back in 3.0 Transmuter was king. Blasting is and has always been the easiest school to render ineffective.


Roy would be a better cleric actually. High wisdom, reasonable charisma, the usual stuff. Maybe even a theurge since he's got good int too.

Agreed; he'd also be an amazing ranger or warpriest I think.


^ Ya, that's one good reason. Conjuration and transmutation both rely on allies for maximum effectiveness. Mopping up by yourself or buffing yourself is only so-so.

Actually, I'd say Conjuration is the school that relies LEAST on allies, as any Monolith or Solar will tell you.


Yeah, in my game the Orb spells are evocation. Having them become conjuration makes no sense.

An orb spell is little more than a formless elemental called up and tossed at an enemy. It actually fits conjuration far better if you think about it like that.