Roy, pefect class for the job?(some spoilers)

[Silverraptor]

Considering in SoD, Xykon casts energy drain on durokon, leaving him weak and frail and now that he's using the same tactics on V, does this means that being a wizard to go after Xykon is the wrong approach? Because when Roy went fought Xykon, Xykon just blasted him with damaging spells and didn't bother with energy drain. So maybe Roy chose the right class to defeat Xykon after all.

Discuss.

[Snake-Aes]

I wouldn't burn a level 9 spell slot on a level 12 group. A few zaps here and there, minions to do the work, one bad weapon shattered...

[Ancalagon]

Class does not really matter vs a level 24+ lich.

HPs are somewhat helpful... but there are other disadvantages. Level 20 Fighter with lots of spells and a high spell-resistance armour, protection vs. energy drain, and some elemental resistences could help.

But even that (or any other victory in a fight that does not lead to Xykons destruction) would not keep Xykon from teleporting/flying out when things turn against him.

Remember: You do not have to win, you have to destroy Xykon and his phylactery. Just beating him and kicking him into the lava pit (including sharks with lasers on their head) won't do the trick.

[Kish]

The problem I see with this thread is that it emphasizes ultimately cosmetic differences over far more central similarities.

That is: Don't look at the spells Xykon used when he fought Roy in single combat vs. the spells he used when he fought Dorukan in single combat or, now, when he's fighting Vaarsuvius. Look at the result ("bang-bang-bang-splat").

[BRC]

It depends. The weakness of a fighter would be Save or Lose spells that target will saves. Also, Roy, as a melee fighter, can't handle Xykon's flight, but he could, with some help, probably handle getting blasted at for awhile.

The best way to handle Xykon's flight, would be if Roy gained some way to fly himself, which is doable. Xykon used Symbol of Insanity once, but I wouldn't be surprised if he got that from a scroll, as it's fairly limited use.

If you factor in Roy's new Caster Intteruption feat, he may actually have a chance. Xykon dosn't seem the type to use illusions or enchantments, which is what you want to hit a fighter with. Before, he was able to blast roy because of the level difference, but if Roy makes that up, he may actually have a chance.

[derfenrirwolv]

Not really. An epic fighter is just as vulnerable to being energy drained than an epic wizard.. more so really. Each negative level puts a -1 on the fighters attack , and they still die when they hit level zero, no matter how many HP's they had.

Wizards start low and advanced Quadratically. Fighters start high and advance linearly.

[BRC]

Not really. An epic fighter is just as vulnerable to being energy drained than an epic wizard.. more so really. Each negative level puts a -1 on the fighters attack , and they still die when they hit level zero, no matter how many HP's they had.

Wizards start low and advanced Quadratically. Fighters start high and advance linearly.
Actually, A Wizard is hurt more by Negative levels than a fighter, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Fighters progress Linearly, Wizards progress quadratically. Which means that when an energy drain effectivly reduces their level, the wizard goes down much faster than the fighter.

If you hit a fighter with an energy drain, they take a penalty on attacks, but they can still attack. If you hit a wizard, they lose one of the highest level spell slot they have. They can no longer use those spells. Just as Wizards benefit more from level up, they get hurt more by negative levels.

[derfenrirwolv]

If you hit a fighter with an energy drain, they take a penalty on attacks, but they can still attack. If you hit a wizard, they lose one of the highest level spell slot they have. They can no longer use those spells. Just as Wizards benefit more from level up, they get hurt more by negative levels.

That's just it, they loose spell SLOTS not spell levels. If you have a 20th level specialist wizard you need to drain 5 levels from him to stop him from casting a 9th level spell, and then another 5 or possibly 6 to get rid of his eighth level spells... and then he still has 7th level slots, which makes him more dangerous than most fighters.

[BRC]

That's just it, they loose spell SLOTS not spell levels. If you have a 20th level specialist wizard you need to drain 5 levels from him to stop him from casting a 9th level spell, and then another 5 or possibly 6 to get rid of his eighth level spells... and then he still has 7th level slots, which makes him more dangerous than most fighters.
For wizards, losing spell slots can be a big deal, depending on which spells you have prepared in them. Every drain simply makes a fighter worse at what they do. Every drain removes something a wizard can do. For example, in this comic, V gets hit with energy drain, and he loses his epic level spell slots. That's a big loss, mind you, it's because the wizard has more to lose than a fighter, but they lose alot more.

A sorceror wouldn't be as affected. Take away 4 9th level spell slots, and they still have more than enough to kill you left. Take away a wizard's spell slots, and you may have taken away the spells they wanted to use to kill you.

[Snake-Aes]

True, more wizards fell to the writings of Jack Vance than any other villain.

[Silverraptor]

I completely agree with BRC (Which I should anyways since I made this thread and he supports it) that draining a wizards level is still much worse then draining a fighters level. The reason that wizards are more powerful is because of a basic argument over how strong per level wizards get. At level 1 who's stronger, the fighter or the wizard? Since the wizard has 2 1st level spell slots,(average) then the fighter is the one who saves the day with more AC and HP. But, when the wizard gets high level, they can effectively solo a dungeon. So comparing the 2 classes on who recieves the worse through energy drains, the wizard has a sharper decline. Whether or not the wizard is still stronger at the level is not really the issue I'm arguing, I'm arguing on the fact that the wizard loses more per energy drain and that's why Roy has the advantage over Xykon.

[kalkyrie]

'Team Cleric' seems underrated.
Cast Wind Walk, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement and Silence on a nearby fighter.

The fighter flies up to the arcane caster and grapples him. Readied actions to attack if he casts a spell are good as well. No paralysis, no non-still spells, and even still spells have to pass concentration checks. And you still have a cleric free to do stuff. (This is well within OotS power levels).

Other options include getting an arcane caster to drop a Anti-magic Shell on him before you send in the fighter, or alpha-striking him with lots of damage. Those options may be beyond non-spliced OotS power levels though.

[Finwe]

Considering in SoD, Xykon casts energy drain on durokon, leaving him weak and frail and now that he's using the same tactics on V, does this means that being a wizard to go after Xykon is the wrong approach? Because when Roy went fought Xykon, Xykon just blasted him with damaging spells and didn't bother with energy drain. So maybe Roy chose the right class to defeat Xykon after all.

Discuss.


Vaarsuvius lost due to hybris, not lack of power. He assumed that he outmatched Xykon by such a degree that he could just waltz in and kill everyone. If he had bothered to buff himself, have Durkon buff him, shapechange into a form that confers a bunch of nifty immunities, the fight would have been more even.

Had V taken 8 hours to prepare new spells for the fight and scryed on the area he was planning to teleport into, he could probably have destroyed Xykon in 1 or 2 rounds.