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View Full Version : Casting or fighting from INSIDE a creature?



Brock Samson
2009-05-12, 04:19 AM
I'm sure most people have had this thought at some time or another when they've encountered a creature with Swallow Whole. A simple Resist Energy cast will resist 20 pts. of acid at level... 7 is it? The negates the 2d8 acid damage you might take. If you can get yourself some damage reduction about 16 you'll also be immune to the crushing damage. Make sure you don't suffocate and you're set to go.

If you do want to cast from inside the creature, I assume it would require some form of concentration check, but if you're not taking damage what would the check be?

If you're melee-ing, can you just try to work your way around inside of slicing yourself out? Frankly sometimes the inside of a creature is a lot less scary than the outside.

What would the creature need to do to vomit you back up? Make a save? Fail a save? Drink a vat of boiling oil?

And what about affecting a creature who's not normally affected by most spells because of say, a carapice? Such as the tarrasque?

I wanna see some ideas/banter people!

potatocubed
2009-05-12, 04:44 AM
I used to have a group whose standard dragon-slaying technique was to get swallowed and then wreak havoc from where the dragon couldn't touch them. Protection from acid kept them safe-ish, and they would just soak up the crushing damage and either dimension door or carve their way out before they died.

As I recall, being in a creature's stomach is a lot like being grappled, plus crushing and acid damage. Thus, for casting spells you use the same rules as casting while being grappled and suffering ongoing damage. (Concentration check? I forget.)

Of course, I bounced this back at them when they went to fight a local black dragon. She had studied their technique so, just before they arrived in her lair, she swallowed her young. (Black dragons are immune to acid damage, ho ho.) The ranger dives headlong down Blackie's throat, only to find a Medium-size black dragon waiting for him when he arrives in the stomach. That was good for a laugh. :smalltongue:

bosssmiley
2009-05-12, 05:01 AM
Swallow whole was effectively a save-or-die back in the day; and that's entirely as it should be.

Your tactical options if eaten alive should be limited to:
muffled screaming
stabbing wildly
hoping you give them the sh*ts (pace Spoon in "Dog Soldiers")
Anything else is just namby-pamby "Baaaaaaw! We r heroz and shouldn't lose" hand-holding.

Casting in a monster? You've just been eaten. That there is a Concentration check at DC: GTFO!
Melee in a monster? Dagger only, and just pray you do enough damage before suffocation and muscular contraction (rather than acid) kills you. If you aren't hacking your way out in a Freudian welter of blood, thrashing and screaming you're just doing it wrong. :smallamused:
Pro-Tip (and general rule for a happy life): Don't stand within biting distance of anything big enough to regard you as a snack.

Saph
2009-05-12, 05:03 AM
If you do want to cast from inside the creature, I assume it would require some form of concentration check, but if you're not taking damage what would the check be?

You count as grappled. So most spells can't be cast, and spells with Verbal components only can be cast with a DC 20 + spell level concentration check.

I've actually done this before. In our World's Largest Dungeon game our party was taking on a creature that was effectively a super-advanced Nightcrawler. Its AC was so high that the only way my Druid could reliably hit it was to let it swallow me and then rip it apart from the inside. With all my buffs on, I could just about survive the 30-40 points of crushing damage per round.

On the other hand, the other PCs being swallowed were less resilient. So I ended up cutting holes for them and throwing them out, letting them seal up, then another PC would come falling down gullet, and I'd have to cut a new hole, etc etc . . .

- Saph

Yuki Akuma
2009-05-12, 05:15 AM
namby-pamby "Baaaaaaw! My immersion!"

D&D is a game about cinematic heroics. So.

Why shouldn't you be able to cast while inside a creature's stomach, anyway? How much do you know about magic?

Farlion
2009-05-12, 05:25 AM
I'm just imagining a cleric casting Blade Barrier after he has been swallowed.

*Sweeps up the blood*

Sorry for the mess.

Cheers,
Farlion

Brock Samson
2009-05-12, 06:17 AM
I suppose Manifesting vs. Casting would be a bit easier wouldn't it?

And how would things like Blink and Incorporeality affect this? Are those just auto-escapes from staying in a gullet?

How about having a pill that's basically a huge anti-acid tablet with shrink item on it released, and letting that take some of the stink out of it's breath/stomach?

Haven
2009-05-12, 08:51 AM
Of course, I bounced this back at them when they went to fight a local black dragon. She had studied their technique so, just before they arrived in her lair, she swallowed her young. (Black dragons are immune to acid damage, ho ho.) The ranger dives headlong down Blackie's throat, only to find a Medium-size black dragon waiting for him when he arrives in the stomach. That was good for a laugh. :smalltongue:

Awesome.

(There's a "yo dawg" to be made out of this, but I'm just gonna leave that be)

Glyde
2009-05-12, 09:16 AM
We once had a player open a Portable Window in the side of a purple worm from the inside. That hurt.

Epinephrine
2009-05-12, 09:27 AM
You count as grappled. So most spells can't be cast, and spells with Verbal components only can be cast with a DC 20 + spell level concentration check.

/agree. No somatic components, and you have materials in hand/eschew materials/manage to retrieve them? Great, you can try the concentration check.

My character was swallowed by a behir a couple of sessions back (and lived
to tell the tale, thanks to the swallowing happening AFTER several rounds of combat, and the critter dying shortly afterward - and my use of his belt of healing (standard mental action) every round), but I had a realization afterward of a potential way out.

He has Anklets of Translocation (swift action teleport 10', gotta see where you are going).
He has a potion of invisibility.
Uncorks potion in creature's stomach. Creature turns invisible. Swift action teleport out.
What do you think? Feasible?

Saph
2009-05-12, 09:42 AM
He has Anklets of Translocation (swift action teleport 10', gotta see where you are going).
He has a potion of invisibility.
Uncorks potion in creature's stomach. Creature turns invisible. Swift action teleport out.
What do you think? Feasible?

. . . I honestly don't know. As a DM, I'd probably allow it just on grounds of creativity.

It depends whether you say a potion works only if drunk, or by going into the stomach. First one is probably RAW, second one kind of makes more sense . . . but of course, if you take the second interpretation, you just know someone's going to go looking for a way to abuse it by making a creature ingest 500 potions at once.

- Saph

Douglas
2009-05-12, 09:49 AM
Wait, you're saying my Barrel of Cure Light Wounds is abusive?:smallamused:

Farlion
2009-05-12, 09:49 AM
He has a potion of invisibility.
Uncorks potion in creature's stomach. Creature turns invisible.

Awesome idea, I'd totally alow it as a DM. I love to get surprised with good ideas as a DM, nothing more boring than players with lack of good ideas.

Two thumbs up!

Cheers,
Farlion

P.S: I don't care about RAW in such situations! They just work because they're cool!

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-12, 10:01 AM
Wait, you're saying my Barrel of Cure Light Wounds is abusive?:smallamused:No, the barrel of Inflict Light Wounds is the issue.

Fhaolan
2009-05-12, 10:19 AM
No, the barrel of Inflict Light Wounds is the issue.

So, standard moonshine then... :smallsmile:

herrhauptmann
2009-05-12, 01:25 PM
An odd question, does cutting your way out of a monsters stomach affect it's total hitpoints? I'd normally guess 'yes,' but most people I've played with either have no idea, or say 'no, the 100 points of damage dealt to the purple worm by people inside his stomach has no effect on actually killing him'

Anklets and invisibility potion in the things stomach, that's cool.

shadzar
2009-05-12, 07:12 PM
After being swallowed by a Tarrasque a dex check was made to grab its uvula. This succeeded and I was not completely swallowed. Having a pixie for a "pet" for a while it was also swallowed. The DM allowed for the pixie to fire a volley of sleep arrows into the uvula at point blank range and they worked. The Tarrasque fell to sleep and the beast fell face forward. The rest of the party pried the jaw open enough for our escape from it, and then we high tailed it out of there.

Depending on your DM you shouldn't have much trouble either hitting a creature from the inside or damaging it. I mean it is kind of hard to miss something that surrounds you.

Innis Cabal
2009-05-12, 07:18 PM
An odd question, does cutting your way out of a monsters stomach affect it's total hitpoints? I'd normally guess 'yes,' but most people I've played with either have no idea, or say 'no, the 100 points of damage dealt to the purple worm by people inside his stomach has no effect on actually killing him'

Anklets and invisibility potion in the things stomach, that's cool.

We rule that it does in my group. It only makes sense really..

Atsu333
2009-05-12, 08:48 PM
what about growing inside a creature, to the point where you are the same size as it? I once had a player that did that, and no one knew how to rule it, especially since the thing he was in was in a Deathless Frenzy and had Diehard. Would this actually be enough to stop the frenzy or kill the Frenzied Berserker?

(we also weren't quite clear on the Deathless Frenzy rules, we thought it let you keep on fighting until you ran out of Frenzy, when you would collapse and die if you had lost enough hitpoints.)

Ravens_cry
2009-05-12, 09:15 PM
A good question. SRD says if there is insuffciant room to expand, the target of the spell
may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it— the spell cannot be used to crush a creature by increasing its size.
I thing this would only be technically pertinent in a creature who couldn't swallow whole a creature of the new size. What's the burst DC for meat though?

Dr Bwaa
2009-05-12, 09:29 PM
I'm the the camp of the "no spells you couldn't cast while grappled" people. And yes, I'm pretty sure carving your way out of something from the inside deals damage to the creature (how could you rule "no" on that, anyway?)

The Barrel of Inflict Light Wounds reminds me of a great fight a high-level wizard in my party had with an epic Lich; he ended up dying I think, but there was a fantastic moment involving a Time Stop, Telekinesis, and about thirty potions of Cure Critical Wounds =D

herrhauptmann
2009-05-13, 12:54 AM
A good question. SRD says if there is insuffciant room to expand, the target of the spell
I thing this would only be technically pertinent in a creature who couldn't swallow whole a creature of the new size. What's the burst DC for meat though?

Make an opposed strength check. Eater gets a -X, because the muscles used in this check aren't the ones he normally uses to crush things. If eater wins, eaten is kept at or close to normal size. If eaten wins, bad stuff happens to eater, depending on new size category of eaten.

Brock Samson
2009-05-13, 01:34 AM
Going further with the "Medium Black dragon waiting for you inside a Black dragon" idea, what about possible "parasite"-like creatures that live INSIDE these monstrously huge creatures? Any creature that has immunity to acid and either enough damage reduction, or perhaps is bendy-bodied enough to simply shrug off the crushing damage, would be able to co-exist with the larger creature, eating some of what comes down it's gullet, and possibly springing forth (up the throat, phasing through the skin, or other less... cleanly ways) to suddenly add to the CR of an encounter? Symbiotic relationship, "you feed me, I'll make sure anything you swallow dies."

Thoughts? Possible creature ideas? I do hope I give someone a new surprise for some bored PCs!

MickJay
2009-05-13, 04:01 AM
Something that looks like huge gastric bacteria? Some tapeworm-y like creatures? Or maybe something with proper resistances/immunities that can be found in monster manuals that decided to inhabit the dragon?

Farlion
2009-05-13, 06:14 AM
Or maybe just a wooden puppet living in the stomach, just trying to get out? :smallbiggrin:

Cheers,
Farlion

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-13, 09:32 AM
Something that looks like huge gastric bacteria? Some tapeworm-y like creatures? Or maybe something with proper resistances/immunities that can be found in monster manuals that decided to inhabit the dragon?Half-Black Dragon X Swarm(where X is anything). Immune to damage and acid, and a mass of scaled, acid-spitting rats inside a Dragon would be awesome.

UserClone
2009-05-13, 11:22 AM
If you aren't hacking your way out in a Freudian welter of blood, thrashing and screaming you're just doing it wrong. :smallamused:
Pro-Tip (and general rule for a happy life): Don't stand within biting distance of anything big enough to regard you as a snack.

May I sig this?

potatocubed
2009-05-13, 12:30 PM
Going further with the "Medium Black dragon waiting for you inside a Black dragon" idea, what about possible "parasite"-like creatures that live INSIDE these monstrously huge creatures?

I was actually just thinking something similar: a recursive purple wormwormworm. I mean, the thing looks like a tapeworm anyway...

"Remember kids, this is why you should always chew your food before swallowing... or find an intestinal parasite that'll chew it for you."

Khanderas
2009-05-15, 03:09 AM
Swallow whole was effectively a save-or-die back in the day; and that's entirely as it should be.

Your tactical options if eaten alive should be limited to:
muffled screaming
stabbing wildly
hoping you give them the sh*ts (pace Spoon in "Dog Soldiers")
Anything else is just namby-pamby "Baaaaaaw! We r heroz and shouldn't lose" hand-holding.

Casting in a monster? You've just been eaten. That there is a Concentration check at DC: GTFO!
Melee in a monster? Dagger only, and just pray you do enough damage before suffocation and muscular contraction (rather than acid) kills you. If you aren't hacking your way out in a Freudian welter of blood, thrashing and screaming you're just doing it wrong. :smallamused:
Pro-Tip (and general rule for a happy life): Don't stand within biting distance of anything big enough to regard you as a snack.
You are my new hero until something equally awesome or better comes along.
"DC; GTFO!" priceless :)
Also would like to point out, that very few creatures swollows live food without a proper chew or three. DM's dont just go "you are swollowed whole, do 10 damage with a dagger to carve yourself out.. muscular contractions seals up the hole". Give them a good chew for a few rounds (until the screaming stops) as a free action (dropping somatic spells and breathweapons natufally. (on second thought, do use a breath for extra bonus) THEN swollow.

Anything with an int higher then 2 would understand that swollowing a tinman with sharp weapons alive is a BAD idea even if he cant cave himself out.
Why any dragon would consider it (as in the story of a group of dragonslayers with that specific tactic) is beyond me. A dragon should take off flying. drop the guy on rock from a mile up, 2 miles away from his companions.

Myrmex
2009-05-15, 03:31 AM
A dragon should take off flying. drop the guy on rock from a mile up, 2 miles away from his companions.

Like a gull with an oyster.

'Course, the shells part of a fighter is the only bit worth keeping.

Brock Samson
2009-05-15, 03:45 AM
So something to disguise weapons and armor to look more delicious (Hat of Disguise?):

Boots of Bacon

+3 Belt of BBQ

Cloak of Cheese

and of course, a +2 Onion Ring: to Rule Them All

Oh, and wielding... a Red Herring for a weapon?

woodenbandman
2009-05-15, 09:24 AM
The crushing damage doesn't make much sense when you're in the stomach. Crushing comes from the esophagus. Acid comes from the stomach. Acid in your esophagus is called Acid Reflux Disease.

When you're in the gullet for, say, 2 rounds, you're grappled. When you're in the stomach, you're swimming, and can then cast spells.

Epinephrine
2009-05-15, 09:37 AM
When you're in the gullet for, say, 2 rounds, you're grappled. When you're in the stomach, you're swimming, and can then cast spells.

How big is the creature? A human stomach holds about a gallon (I'm reading a book on science and cadavers, and a few chapters back they were talking about testing of stomachs for capacity). Something large should have about 8 times this, and something huge another 8 times that - 64 gallons or so. That's not a very big space. For reference, my rain barrel is 55 gallons, and while you could fit me in there, I certainly wouldn't be very comfortable, and since a stomach isn't a rigid container it in fact would compress around you.

A huge creature may be able to fit 2-3 people in its stomach (especially chewed up), but it wouldn't be roomy, and you wouldn't be "swimming".

Now, a colossal creature, you might well be "swimming". 4000 gallons is getting to be a lot of room.

evisiron
2009-05-15, 10:14 AM
I'm just imagining a cleric casting Blade Barrier after he has been swallowed.

*Sweeps up the blood*

Sorry for the mess.

Cheers,
Farlion

Actually happened, pretty much, though it was my girlfriend playing a halfling warmage after being swallowed by a T-Rex.

The talented Serpentine even OOTS-ed for me so I could make the event into a T-shirt so she could boast about the epic deed!

In fact *rummage rummage* here is the image pic:
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/serpentine16/Art/t-rexexplodingshirt2-1.gif

Ah, good times...

herrhauptmann
2009-05-15, 04:08 PM
Anything with an int higher then 2 would understand that swollowing a tinman with sharp weapons alive is a BAD idea even if he cant cave himself out.
Why any dragon would consider it (as in the story of a group of dragonslayers with that specific tactic) is beyond me. A dragon should take off flying. drop the guy on rock from a mile up, 2 miles away from his companions.

Isn't there a rule that says if you're in the mouth of a creature and it uses it's breathweapon, you don't get a save?

Edit: Envisiron, cool t-shirt design.

Brock Samson
2009-05-18, 06:07 AM
If you're in the mouth of a creature you're still grappled right? You can't make a reflex save while grappled right? So any breath weapon = PAIN!

Glyde
2009-05-18, 08:54 AM
Oooh, chewed in the mouth.That makes it even easier to cause pain. Severed tongue, stab into whatever is up there, break some teeth, dive down into the throat stabbing away. Some monster would have a reeaally bad day.


People seem to forget the 'rule of cool'. Carving out of a monster screaming and covered in blood is cool. Turning into poop is not. Remember that it's still difficult to get out, but they at least need to be given the chance. Unless, of course, the campaign / setting / game has been earlier defined as really really dark or 'realistic'. In which case go on with the poop making.

I'll be busy hacking away on the inside of the bugger, hopefully spilling some of his stomach acid on some very important parts. How's that for indigestion?

Douglas
2009-05-18, 08:55 AM
Grappling doesn't do anything to your reflex save. The Snatch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#snatch) feat, however, does specify that creatures snatched with your mouth don't get reflex saves against your breath weapon.

For some reason, neither Swallow Whole nor Improved Grab include a similar clause.

Blackfang108
2009-05-18, 09:37 AM
Depending on your DM you shouldn't have much trouble either hitting a creature from the inside or damaging it. I mean it is kind of hard to miss something that surrounds you.

True.

[4e]I was DMing a game where several party members were eaten by a Gelatanous Cube. I rules that the v Reflex attacks from inside were auto-hits, and I lowered the thing's AC for the people inside. (Fort and Will unchanged.)