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LOLC2k
2009-05-12, 05:53 PM
Yeah. That's right. The quick trait, (-2 con, +10 to move speed). A gray elf. And starting 8 con. That means, with a point buy system, we have him. The wizard with 1 hp a level no matter what he rolls. He insists on giving it a try. And suggestions on how to survive?

Eldariel
2009-05-12, 05:58 PM
Be a Wizard. Don't get hit. Ever. That means lots of illusions, lots of contingencies, Abrupt Jaunt, lots of staying back, skulking and flying and overall, just never letting opponents target him in the first place.

EDIT: Low levels: Tower Shield used for full cover constantly.

The_JJ
2009-05-12, 05:59 PM
Kite, play smart, remember that you're still alive until -10.

LOLC2k
2009-05-12, 06:01 PM
Be a Wizard. Don't get hit. Ever. That means lots of illusions, lots of contingencies, Abrupt Jaunt, lots of staying back, skulking and flying and overall, just never letting opponents target him in the first place.

I told him that, but at low-mid levels, all it takes is one failed spot check. You can't take an immediate action if you're flat footed. You also can't abrupt jaunt out of the fireball. 1d6/level is intimidating when even rolling all 1's knocks you to zero.

josh13905
2009-05-12, 06:09 PM
If you/he has the complete scoundrel, Luck Feats, one of them uses a luck reroll to automatically put you to -9 instead of dying, and it auto stabilizes you, Assuming the enemy doesn't have time to Coup De Grace, and you teamates can get to you in time, you should be fine.

the feat requires at least char level 6 I believe along with another luck feat but I may be wrong on those.

Eldariel
2009-05-12, 06:19 PM
I told him that, but at low-mid levels, all it takes is one failed spot check. You can't take an immediate action if you're flat footed. You also can't abrupt jaunt out of the fireball. 1d6/level is intimidating when even rolling all 1's knocks you to zero.

You can Abrupt Jaunt out of a Fireball if you can tell where it's gonna land; it's only a 20' radius sphere so if you happen to be 15' - 20' from the center (or near an obstacle - definitely something to stay near at all times), you can get out. Also, Wings of Cover a - level 2 spell from Races of the Dragon that grants you with total cover against a single thing. Great for this.

Other than that, the mentioned Tower Shield used for total cover. But this really is a sorta suicide on low levels. On higher levels, it becomes ironically easier as the amount of "no, you didn't hit" effects increases. On low levels, you have little to work with. But with enough abuse and party support, I could see this working out.

Flickerdart
2009-05-12, 06:23 PM
Nothing is 1d6 per level, damage scales (SA, Eldritch Blast, stock Fireballs) as 1d6/2 levels, or 3.5/2, or 1.75 per level. So even 2 HP would pull him through...unfortunately, he's got just one. Get that DEX sky-high for AC and Reflex saves. Will and Fortitude aren't as much of a threat due to the effect usually being independent of HP.

So he should either buff his AC (Shield, Mage Armor), concealment (Displacement) and Reflex saves (Rat familiar? whichever) sky-high and hope for the best (Flying up also works), or focus on taking enemies out fast. Nerveskitter, Hummingbird familiar and such will help, as well as spells such as Web that hold his enemies in place, where they can't get to him.

LOLC2k
2009-05-12, 06:28 PM
Nothing is 1d6 per level, damage scales (SA, Eldritch Blast, stock Fireballs) as 1d6/2 levels, or 3.5/2, or 1.75 per level. So even 2 HP would pull him through...unfortunately, he's got just one. Get that DEX sky-high for AC and Reflex saves. Will and Fortitude aren't as much of a threat due to the effect usually being independent of HP.

So he should either buff his AC (Shield, Mage Armor), concealment (Displacement) and Reflex saves (Rat familiar? whichever) sky-high and hope for the best (Flying up also works), or focus on taking enemies out fast. Nerveskitter, Hummingbird familiar and such will help, as well as spells such as Web that hold his enemies in place, where they can't get to him.

Fireball might not be 1d6 per level all the way up until 20, but it's 1d6/level, max 10d6. So until level 10, the fact that it caps at 20 doesn't help. Same with lightning bolt. I believe Vampiric Touch scales as you wrote, though, at 1d6/2 levels.

Also, abrupt jaunt only lets you teleport 10 feet. How does that get you out of a 20 foot radius spread?

Mando Knight
2009-05-12, 06:36 PM
Nothing is 1d6 per level, damage scales (SA, Eldritch Blast, stock Fireballs) as 1d6/2 levels, or 3.5/2, or 1.75 per level.

Fireballs are (CL)d6, max 10d6; Delayed Blast Fireballs move the cap up to 20d6; and Disintegrate is (2*CL)d6, max 40d6. The rather-maligned damage-dealer wizard still has significant offensive capabilities.


Anyway, be Evil, get a Caster Level of 11, and save up 120,000 gp and 4,800 XP and get the Craft Wondrous Item feat. That should solve all of your bad-Con problems. :smalltongue:

Greengiant
2009-05-12, 06:37 PM
Get a toad familiar! Complete arcane or something. Or the book that has the guides for sorcerer and wizard. I can't really remember. But anyway, one of them has a toad familiar that gives plus HP. Maybe this can help you?

Douglas
2009-05-12, 06:42 PM
And here I thought he was going for a 1 hp, total, at any level, build. Tell him to start at middle-aged and take toughness, and he'll have just 3 hp forever. Now you just need to find a way to sacrifice 2 hp...

Oh wait, you were trying to stop him from doing this.:smallbiggrin:

LOLC2k
2009-05-12, 06:55 PM
And here I thought he was going for a 1 hp, total, at any level, build. Tell him to start at middle-aged and take toughness, and he'll have just 3 hp forever. Now you just need to find a way to sacrifice 2 hp...

Oh wait, you were trying to stop him from doing this.:smallbiggrin:

Doesn't work anyhow, because regardless of modifiers, you ALWAYS gain 1 HP a level.

JellyPooga
2009-05-12, 07:00 PM
Doesn't work anyhow, because regardless of modifiers, you ALWAYS gain 1 HP a level.

Unless you have the 'Frail' Flaw...that deducts 1 from all your HP rolls even if it takes that to 0.

LOLC2k
2009-05-12, 07:03 PM
Unless you have the 'Frail' Flaw...that deducts 1 from all your HP rolls even if it takes that to 0.

...I'll let him know. Will it technically let him start with zero hp? He might actually go for it.

Flickerdart
2009-05-12, 07:09 PM
...I'll let him know. Will it technically let him start with zero hp? He might actually go for it.
Yep. For his entire short life, he will be at 0hp. Without temporary HP, he will always be disabled.

LOLC2k
2009-05-12, 07:21 PM
Yep. For his entire short life, he will be at 0hp. Without temporary HP, he will always be disabled.

....hm. In a low magic campaign, would almost be cool. All his spells cause him to knock himself out they're so powerful. But it loses some cool factor once they notice the same thing happens when he shoots a bow. Or. You know. Jogs.

Flickerdart
2009-05-12, 07:29 PM
Or. You know. Jogs.
Nah, move actions are fine.

LOLC2k
2009-05-12, 07:33 PM
Nah, move actions are fine.

LOL. I meant double move. Which I guess is a bit more than jogging, but close.

AgentPaper
2009-05-12, 07:37 PM
Let him take 2 free feats in exchange for never going above 1 HP. Diehard and whatever luck feat is required for that luck feat to avoid going below -9.

Douglas
2009-05-12, 07:38 PM
The quick trait has that clause too.

Subtract 1 from your hit points gained at each level, including 1st (a result of 0 is possible). (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick)

Either Quick or Frail can let you make a character with maximum hp of 0. Such a character is disabled (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#disabled) even at full health, unable to safely take any standard action without first getting a buff that either increases constitution or gives temporary hp. I thought your player would be unlikely to want quite that much of a handicap, which is why I suggested Toughness to bring it from 0 to 3 hp. Still so low a mere standard goblin has a 1/3 change of knocking him unconscious in one hit even when he's level 50, but at least he can cast spells without knocking himself unconscious.

LOLC2k
2009-05-12, 07:44 PM
LOL yeah. course, this will all fall apart when disintegrate comes.
"It hit me..? I make my save."
"Okay, you take only 4 damage."
"Woot, I'm at -3! (Or 0 if he takes toughness)."
"Yup. And, a pile of ash."

Never-the-less, I assume he'll HAVE to be a conj specialist with abrupt jaunt, yes? We are starting at first level. The good news is, that means with 20 int, 5 abrupts a day.

Saph
2009-05-12, 10:02 PM
Well, it's amusing, anyway.

I'd treat it kind of like a multiplayer FPS; you know he's going to die, the only question is when. Might make for quite an entertaining betting game. "Aw, I had him down for three sessions. Can't you get to him in time so that he stabilises?"

- Saph

maniakmastah
2009-05-12, 10:51 PM
lol, i can see it now

Your traveling through the forest and your hear some noise, sounds like buzzing, gimme a spot check. *player fails* you suddenly feel something on your shoulder. A honeybee stings you for 1d2 damage. Your unconscious.

But in all seriousness, if done right, and getting enough spells ( blur and displacement are good for low to mid levels) and items to up AC and having a decent Dex score, it could work. I so wanna hear more on this.

JoshuaZ
2009-05-12, 11:12 PM
Yeah. That's right. The quick trait, (-2 con, +10 to move speed). A gray elf. And starting 8 con. That means, with a point buy system, we have him. The wizard with 1 hp a level no matter what he rolls. He insists on giving it a try. And suggestions on how to survive?

Um, precocious apprentice allows him to once a day cast a level 2 spell. Maybe take that and use it to cast False Life? It will only last one hour unless he boosts caster level but it could help.

I seem to remember somewhere seeing a lesser version of False Life that was level 1, only gave 1d6 temporary hit points 1 per caster level (maximum +5). and lasted 1 minute per a level. Not sure if that was homebrewed or in an official book. That would at least help if he is expecting a battle.

Maybe he should take toughness as his level 1 feat?

Edited for spelling, grammar.

Crow
2009-05-12, 11:12 PM
I did this. Played a wizard. 1 hp per level, baby.

FoE
2009-05-12, 11:23 PM
Yeah. That's right. The quick trait, (-2 con, +10 to move speed). A gray elf. And starting 8 con. That means, with a point buy system, we have him. The wizard with 1 hp a level no matter what he rolls. He insists on giving it a try.

You know, if it were me, the only reason I would attempt a build like this was if I intended to disrupt the game. As a one-time joke, it might work, but if he insists on bringing the guy back, I would start to wonder. Is that a possibility?

sonofzeal
2009-05-12, 11:28 PM
Why has nobody mentioned Psionics and the Vigor power? Might save this kid's butt, being able to buff himself with ML*5 temp hp!

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-13, 12:13 AM
Get a toad familiar! Complete arcane or something. Or the book that has the guides for sorcerer and wizard. I can't really remember. But anyway, one of them has a toad familiar that gives plus HP. Maybe this can help you?
Dude, toad familiars are in the PHB. They give + 3 hit points.

With one of them, or just the Toughness feat, you could theoretically take Quick or Frail and only ever have three hit points. Still impressive, but limits your options less than zero.

shadowfox
2009-05-13, 12:22 AM
Although it will only actually affect his Fortitude Save modifier...

The Quick trait gives you -1 HP, not -2 Con.

Just saying...

Zeful
2009-05-13, 12:31 AM
lol, i can see it now

Your traveling through the forest and your hear some noise, sounds like buzzing, gimme a spot check. *player fails* you suddenly feel something on your shoulder. A honeybee stings you for 1d2 damage. Your unconscious.

A character deathly allergic to everything? That sounds cool.

LOLC2k
2009-05-13, 12:39 AM
Well, he's doing, except not taking the flaw, so he will have one hit point a level. We play on friday. This is going to be interesting.

Heliomance
2009-05-14, 11:28 AM
I'm not sure how you work it out as 1HP per level, no matter what. The disadvantage of the Quick trait is worded like this:


Subtract 1 from your hit points gained at each level, including 1st (a result of 0 is possible).(emphasis mine).

So with a d4 hit die, and 6 con, a 1, 2 or 3 rolled would go to 1, and a 4 would go to 2. Add in Quick, and 1, 2, or 3 go to 0 HP gained that level. He only gets 1HP if he rolls a 4.

Another_Poet
2009-05-14, 11:57 AM
So with a d4 hit die, and 6 con, a 1, 2 or 3 rolled would go to 1, and a 4 would go to 2. Add in Quick, and 1, 2, or 3 go to 0 HP gained that level. He only gets 1HP if he rolls a 4.

This is correct.

Some ways to survive:

-Goodberries. If the party has someone who can cast Goodberry, I would probably allow the player to hold one in his mouth and attempt a reflex save to bite down on it if he is hit for damage. Thus allowing some chance of auto-healing upon being knocked out.

Of course after a few minutes it would soften up and take effect whether he needed or not, so he'd need to pop one in before every battle.
Note: If he's trying to challenge himself he may not accept this rule-bending help.

-If there is a way he can get 2 feats at L1 as an elf, Endurance + Die Hard effectively gives him 10 more hp, though only a single non-strenuous action per round once he's in negatives.

Personally I'd let him take Die Hard without Endurance if he wanted.
Note: If he's trying to challenge himself he may not accept this rule-bending help.

-Oil of Cure x Wounds? He could strap the phial under his clothing against his skin, on some part of his body he's likely to fall on (butt, leg, etc). When he's knocked unconscious and falls, he will crack open the oil and the Cure X Wounds will contact his skin, healing him. I'd roll a d% to see if he falls on it.

If you allow oils of Cure Minor Wounds for 25 gp, he could afford two instead of one.

-Augury. If the character can find some way to access this spell at Level 1, he can ask "Will I survive the day if I stay far to the rear of the party." Weal means yes and he follows 100 feet behind all others, casting long rane spells but staying out of the way of most attacks. Tell him Woe if you're planning a back attack or similar and he'll stay at the front. Not too hard, especially if there is a local priest who will cast it for him.

Other than that, toad, Toughness, cover and making himself a non-target are the ways to go at low levels.

ap

Kylarra
2009-05-14, 12:06 PM
Let him take improved toughness as a feat (or via flaw). That way he'll be sure to have the minimum one hp/level. :smallbiggrin:

Stormthorn
2009-05-14, 12:08 PM
Hmmm...invest in Die Hard because he can expect to get to know negetive hitpoints well.

Invest in spells that buff HP or Constitution.

Turn yourself into an undead to make your hit dice bigger.

Use a spell to reduce your size and ride on the back of the guy with a Bow so you not only have a meatshield but are always away from the fighting.

Random Question: If you put an Everburning Torch into a Decanter of Endless Water do you end up with a Decanter of Endless Hot Bath?

LOLC2k
2009-05-14, 12:15 PM
I'm not sure how you work it out as 1HP per level, no matter what. The disadvantage of the Quick trait is worded like this:
(emphasis mine).

So with a d4 hit die, and 6 con, a 1, 2 or 3 rolled would go to 1, and a 4 would go to 2. Add in Quick, and 1, 2, or 3 go to 0 HP gained that level. He only gets 1HP if he rolls a 4.

Good catch. Maybe I'll let him just take 1 hp a level. or 0 if he took the flaw, but he did not.

A few other responses, the oil thing doesn't work. He's a person, not an object.
The goodberry idea I might use, though. As I said, I might just let him "assume a 4" because i think he literally wants 1 hp/level, and as such won't be taking toughness or improved toughness, etc, if it could mean more than that. Or the toad familiar.

Kylarra
2009-05-14, 12:26 PM
make him roll each time he levels up. :smallcool: It'd be funnier, and really 2 hp isn't that much better than 1.


Random Question: If you put an Everburning Torch into a Decanter of Endless Water do you end up with a Decanter of Endless Hot Bath?
everburning torch generates no heat, so no. :smallfrown:

Telonius
2009-05-14, 12:41 PM
One of these days in your travels, a guy is going to show you a brand-new deck of cards on which the seal is not yet broken. Then this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the jack of spades jump out of this brand-new deck of cards and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not accept this bet, because as sure as you stand there, you're going to wind up with an ear full of cider.

Proceed with caution. This player has something planned.

LOLC2k
2009-05-14, 12:45 PM
Proceed with caution. This player has something planned.

I'm sure he does, but I'm willing to guess he'll be dead before 3rd level. You *could* survive high levels with the right spells in place. But you know, things attack sleeping characters. Archers target wizards in surprise rounds. And there's a couple of monsters in the first adventure he'll be on that have archers that do 1d8+4. Could kill him in 1 hit on the surprise round, even if he does take diehard (Yes, I'm letting him take it without endurance).

Stormthorn
2009-05-14, 12:55 PM
make him roll each time he levels up. :smallcool: It'd be funnier, and really 2 hp isn't that much better than 1.


everburning torch generates no heat, so no. :smallfrown:

Darn. And here i thought i was onto something.


Wait...a high level party (becuase this is expensive) can get a few hundred (i reccomend two thousand) applications of Dust of Dryness, and then put them in a bag of holding, and then pour in a LOT of water from a decanter of endless water and then put the dryness-marbles into a normal sack along with a few thunderstones.
Toss it into the dungeon and the thunderstones go off, triggering the marbles.
All of a sudden a one foot wide sphere (area of the little sack) contains 200,000+ gallons of water trying to expand out. Dungeon solved.

Im...getting off topic. But its a good sort of off topic.

V'icternus
2009-05-14, 12:56 PM
Just wait. Next session, he'll show up with the relatively unknown "1 HP mastery" rulebook, with feats that give him +30 to all defenses and saves, and an immunity to indirect damage and disintegration.

LOLC2k
2009-05-14, 12:58 PM
Just wait. Next session, he'll show up with the relatively unknown "1 HP mastery" rulebook, with feats that give him +30 to all defenses and saves, and an immunity to indirect damage and disintegration.

What the hell are defenses?

Kidding. I know what you meant ;)

Draz74
2009-05-14, 12:59 PM
Boots of Sidestepping from Dungeonscape are a relatively cheap way to get "poor man's Evasion." They'll save you from a Fireball or dragon breath if you happen to be at the edge of it.

The Baffling Defense Setting Sun Counter is another good thing to have to save your butt when you would otherwise get hit, but I'm not sure how a Wizard would (1) get it or (2) have a high enough Sense Motive to make it worthwhile.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-14, 01:13 PM
Wait...a high level party (becuase this is expensive) can get a few hundred applications of Dust of Dryness, and then put them in a bag of holding, and then pour in a LOT of water from a decanter of endless water and then put the dryness-marbles into a normal sack along with a few thunderstones.
Toss it into the dungeon and the thunderstones go off, triggering the marbles.
All of a sudden a one foot wide sphere (area of the little sack) contains 200,000+ gallons of water trying to expand out. Dungeon solved.850 GP per 100 gallons. Combine that with the Drowning rules meaning the toughest enemies will escape, and the amount of work you would need to retrieve the loot, it really isn't worth it.

I'd much rather just burn a Candle of Invocation for the Gate to the Plane of Water over the Dungeon entrance. Less expensive, and less likely to anger your DM(the pricing is accurate as long as you don't call something).

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-05-14, 01:20 PM
850 GP per 100 gallons. Combine that with the Drowning rules meaning the toughest enemies will escape, and the amount of work you would need to retrieve the loot, it really isn't worth it.

I'd much rather just burn a Candle of Invocation for the Gate to the Plane of Water over the Dungeon entrance. Less expensive, and less likely to anger your DM(the pricing is accurate as long as you don't call something).

Either that, or you find the dungeons filled with creatures who have no need to breathe (undead and constructs) or are amphibious, just making the trick a bigger inconvenience to you. Or you find your next dungeon is already underwater...

Another_Poet
2009-05-14, 02:57 PM
I wouldn't worry too much that the player "has something planned" or is a "problem player." It sounds like he is just trying to challenge himself.

There are really on three outcomes and none of them are a disruption to the game:

1) The party sees that their caster is frail and plan their tactics figuring he won't be around long. He dies in the first encounter/trap, they bring in a new (more hardy) caster. No problem.

2) The party sees that their caster is frail and plan their tactics figuring he won't be around long. He manages to survive a few encounters, he proves useful and they are mildly impressed. No problem.

3) He is "planning something" but when he tries to pull out the feat/spell/ability that benefits from having 1 hp you remind him that you didn't approve it beforehand, and he can't use it. See (1) or (2) above. No problem.

I'd gladly let the player try to make a go of his 1 hp char in my campaign, with a warning that I won't pull punches.

ap