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J.Gellert
2009-05-14, 02:49 PM
I was just coming up with something (not that I have a game imminent, curse my DM) but I'd post this anyway and see what people think.

The goal is not to go overpowered, but it's supposed to be a character good at many different things as opposed to simple arcane power. I'm aware that you shouldn't multiclass your casters but it's a trade I'm willing to make.

The only house rules is that fluff does not apply so I can use region- and even race- or alignment-restricted options up to a point. So here goes:

Human, Monk 2/Wizard 8 (Badass 10)
Generalist, Elven wizard racial substitution level for 1st

32 point buy
Str: 10
Dex: 18 (base 16)
Con: 14
Int: 22 (base 16 +2 for level 10)
Wis: 8
Cha: 12

Feats:
Able Learner (to keep Stealth up)
Spell Focus: Conjuration
Augment Summoning
Nexus Method (going to be summoning)
Carmendine Monk

Monk bonus feats:
Stunning Fist
Deflect Arrows

Wizard bonus feats (UA variant):
Improved Initiative
Weapon Finesse

I have some more specific questions as well.

1. Are there any decent spells that summon weapons? What do you think of Blade of Pain and Fear?

2. I hate Vancian magic - Is Spell Mastery/Uncanny Forethought worth it in light of how I am picking up Nexus Method anyway?

3. I don't like familiars. I've always traded them for something extra but I don't want to go with Abrupt Jaunt. Is there anything else that's decent and works for Generalists?

4. Should I ditch Improved Initiative for something else?

Thank you!

Telonius
2009-05-14, 03:11 PM
Have you looked into the "Enlightened Fist" prestige class, from Complete Arcane? If you're already multiclassing Monk/Wizard, it might interest you.

J.Gellert
2009-05-14, 03:30 PM
I've seen it, but I don't really care for its unique things (holding rays) - and all I really wanted from the monk class was in its first couple levels.

If I was higher level I'd think about it, but at level 10 I am sceptical about sacrificing a feat and another caster level for it.

In fact I am only taking any monk levels for the fun-factor of having stealth, evasion, deflect arrows, and the choice to sucker-punch brutes that get too close without having to rely on magic items, and even if I ever run out of spells. Alright that's a more than a couple things but still... I don't care about prolonged melee.

Greg
2009-05-14, 03:33 PM
I was just coming up with something (not that I have a game imminent, curse my DM) but I'd post this anyway and see what people think.

The goal is not to go overpowered, but it's supposed to be a character good at many different things as opposed to simple arcane power. I'm aware that you shouldn't multiclass your casters but it's a trade I'm willing to make.

The only house rules is that fluff does not apply so I can use region- and even race- or alignment-restricted options up to a point. So here goes:

Human, Monk 2/Wizard 8 (Badass 10)
Generalist, Elven wizard racial substitution level for 1st

32 point buy
Str: 10
Dex: 18 (base 16)
Con: 14
Int: 22 (base 16 +2 for level 10)
Wis: 8
Cha: 12

Feats:
Able Learner (to keep Stealth up)
Spell Focus: Conjuration
Augment Summoning
Nexus Method (going to be summoning)
Carmendine Monk

Monk bonus feats:
Stunning Fist
Deflect Arrows

Wizard bonus feats (UA variant):
Improved Initiative
Weapon Finesse

I have some more specific questions as well.

1. Are there any decent spells that summon weapons? What do you think of Blade of Pain and Fear?

2. I hate Vancian magic - Is Spell Mastery/Uncanny Forethought worth it in light of how I am picking up Nexus Method anyway?

3. I don't like familiars. I've always traded them for something extra but I don't want to go with Abrupt Jaunt. Is there anything else that's decent and works for Generalists?

4. Should I ditch Improved Initiative for something else?

Thank you!
1 -Not sure
2 - Spell mastery just means you can prepare a spell without a spellbook - you still have to prepare it.
3 - I like the third elf wizard substitution level - doubles your bonus from the familiar - take a rat for +4 fort save.
4 - Improved initiative is good, but if you're going to take it, don't take it as a bonus feat as you are. Metamagic feats are probably more useful - still/silent/deceptive spell all fit in with a stealth build.

I'm not a fan of this build - it isn't "good at many different things" as opposed to a build that is not particularly good at anything. At level 10, you will have a CL of 8 and a BAB of 5.

Are you PrCing?

J.Gellert
2009-05-14, 03:47 PM
Spell Mastery is a waste, but is a necessary evil for Uncanny Forethought which is a rather nice feat. I've always wanted to pick it up with a character, I just think it's not needed now because of Nexus Method.

I haven't found any PrCs for Monk/Wizard other than Enlightened Fist... And a couple rogue-mage PrCs that would be fun require me to give up too many feats for too much I don't need.

With the Enlightened Fist and other classes I find myself looking over too much I don't need. Interesting class features, but unnecessary. It's like the familiar - I guess I can use it if I focus on it, and it may be strong, but I don't want it. I'd much rather trade it for something else.

sebsmith
2009-05-14, 03:59 PM
If you don't like the Vancian system, have you looked at Psionics?

Darrin
2009-05-15, 09:15 AM
Human, Monk 2/Wizard 8 (Badass 10)
Generalist, Elven wizard racial substitution level for 1st


...and the pointy ears come from where, exactly?



1. Are there any decent spells that summon weapons? What do you think of Blade of Pain and Fear?


Pretty good spell, but not sure it's worth a 3rd level spell slot... although that frightened effect is tempting. 3rd level is where a lot of your bread-and-butter spells start to kick in (dispel magic, haste, fly, etc.), so you may not have enough room for all the 3rd level spells you need.

Flame blade would be better at 2nd, but it's difficult to get as a wizard. Flame dagger is almost as good, but there's a better spell in Sandstorm called scimitar of sand: damage is untyped, plus fort save or become dehydrated (which, admittedly, is nowhere near as useful as the frightened effect).

Cloud of knives (PHB II) is lots of fun. Free dagger attack every round. Launch bolt can be very interesting for a cantrip, if you can convince your DM to let you carry around colossal-sized crossbow bolts (via shrink item, if need be).

Spiritual weapon (available via Arcane Disciple) isn't exactly a weapon (although it looks like one), but is pretty useful for getting past DR or for dealing with incorporeal enemies. Rather than waste a feat and a spell slot to get it, however, just pick up a Hammersphere (MIC p. 161) instead for 1500 GP.

Ice dagger and ice knife are meh. Fist of stone and cutting hand offer decent melee attacks for 1st level spells, particularly if you combine fist of stone with greater mighty wallop or cutting hand with whirling blade for the biyotch-slap heard 'round the battlefield.



2. I hate Vancian magic - Is Spell Mastery/Uncanny Forethought worth it in light of how I am picking up Nexus Method anyway?


I take it sorcerer isn't an option (although a kobold monk/sorcerer with Ascetic Mage makes for a pretty decent scrapper)... did you consider a Beguiler?

Alacritous Cogitation does much the same thing as Uncanny Forethought, although only once per day.

Anyspell and greater anyspell might also work under certain conditions.

I'm not sure Nexus Method is worth it if you're not specializing as a conjurer and picking up rapid summoning. You can also pick up enhanced summoning and spontaneous summoning (which is almost as good as Nexus Method). I guess I'm not sure if you're trying to focus on summoning or weapon-like spells?



3. I don't like familiars. I've always traded them for something extra but I don't want to go with Abrupt Jaunt. Is there anything else that's decent and works for Generalists?


You can swap your familiar for rapid summoning as a specialist conjurer. Other than that... hmm. Well, if you take a hummingbird familiar (Dragon #323), you get +4 on initiative checks, which means you can swap improved initiative for something else, or stack it with improved initiative for +8 on initiative checks.



4. Should I ditch Improved Initiative for something else?


No, that's a good feat. If you're a spellcaster that wants to smack things with your fists, getting off a buff spell before your enemies attack is going to be pretty important.

Enlightened Fist might be worth another look. Just dipping into it for ki strike (magic) allows you to go into Master of the East Wind (Dragon #314) early, which offers medium BAB and 10 full caster levels.

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-15, 11:29 AM
If I were dipping something to round out a wizard build, I think that I'd choose Rogue to get a buttload of extra skill points at first level. Plus, you don't need to blow any feats to get into Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster. Still, I do suppose that Monk shores up your defenses better, so if that's what you're looking for, I guess it's the right choice.

But why are you putting points into Cha and Str instead of Wis, then? Did you just forget about the Monk's AC bonus, or is it purely for characterization purposes?


...and the pointy ears come from where, exactly?

The only house rules is that fluff does not apply so I can use region- and even race- or alignment-restricted options up to a point.


If you don't like the Vancian system, have you looked at Psionics?
Something like a Ranger/Psion/Illithid Slayer or Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) seems like it might be better for many of the same purposes, if ones seeks to avoid those pesky spell slots and the preparation of the spells with the firing and the forgetting.

Or Warlock, if you want to avoid "battery-powered magic" altogether, but that doesn't have the same versatility.

J.Gellert
2009-05-15, 01:42 PM
Enlightened Fist might be worth another look. Just dipping into it for ki strike (magic) allows you to go into Master of the East Wind (Dragon #314) early, which offers medium BAB and 10 full caster levels.

I have most books at my disposal but no Dragon magazines. That sounds like an interesting class.


But why are you putting points into Cha and Str instead of Wis, then? Did you just forget about the Monk's AC bonus, or is it purely for characterization purposes?

The Carmendine Monk feat will let me use my Int modifier so Wis is a dump stat. And for characterization purposes. Can't have a proper villain with too much wisdom. :smallsmile:

I'll likely be taking another look at psionics or use a cheaper way to get Evasion and monk-ly tricks.