Wait, how'd he do that?

[krossbow]

how the hell did Xykon slam V with a wall of stone right then in the middle of V's greater teleport spell?


By the initiative order that we had seen right there, V's turn should have come before Xykon; as xykon had just cast a spell, he shouldn't have been able to have readied an action to hit V with a mass of Concrete, let alone a move action coupled with a massive strength check to do so (and getting the stone in the first place).
The ONLY way i could see that working would be if Xykon had followed his dispel with a (offscreen) quickened time stop to let him move the stone into position and ready and action to slam V. Frankly that seems unlikely though given the raw obscene CR that would put Xykon at.


Otherwise, this is just blatant cheating. Sure it's a nice "Take that!" to V, but its complete and utter breaking of the rules.

[Kittenwolf]

I'm a little hazy on this one too.
I guess an off-screen quickened Telekinesis could have done it, and Xyk having it in his hands was just for show.

The other option is that V for some reason forgot to cast defensively when casting Greater Teleport and so copped an Attack of Opportunity, and somehow Xyk had a hammerspace giant rock..

[Y'nokhs]

From the way V is falling when she gets hit with superb dispelling, it looks like she should have fallen on her back, but in the next panel she is shown standing up. Given her wooziness from mind fog, that may have given Xykon enough time to grab the stone and then nail her with an AoO when she began casting

[Prak]

V used hir action to stand from prone, then Xykon took his action to slam V with a piece of rubble. I'm a bit hazy on how Xykon can do that, but... it's not a big deal or anything...

[Aaron]

V used hir action to stand from prone, then Xykon took his action to slam V with a piece of rubble.

Correct.
:vaarsuvius: first falls on hir back during hir turn. Then V has to use the rest of her turn to stand back up, while having to concentrate extra hard to not lose the splices because of the mind fog.
:xykon:'s turn: Grab a chunk of the broken wall 10 feet up from the ground. Readies action to pound V for fun.
:vaarsuvius: Starts casting, but Xykon uses his ready action.


A slight alternative is that Xykon used a full-round action to grab the rock and then did a AoO on V. ( V could have been too woozy and panicked to cast defensively. V would have failed the concentration check anyway.)

[Shinizak]

Alternately, maybe combat melee rules aren't set in stone in the OotS allowing a bit more combat flexibility. You know, just a thought...

[vrellum]

Correct.
:vaarsuvius: first falls on hir back during hir turn. Then V has to use the rest of her turn to stand back up, while having to concentrate extra hard to not lose the splices because of the mind fog.
:xykon:'s turn: Grab a chunk of the broken wall 10 feet up from the ground. Readies action to pound V for fun.
:vaarsuvius: Starts casting, but Xykon uses his ready action.


A slight alternative is that Xykon used a full-round action to grab the rock and then did a AoO on V. ( V could have been too woozy and panicked to cast defensively. V would have failed the concentration check anyway.)


Standing from prone is a move action. Casting a spell is a standard action. So V should be able to stand and cast a spell all in the same round.

Also, no reason to think V would fail the concentration check to cast defensively. Well, V does seem to have a poor concentration check modifier, so maybe he would.

Still don't see how Xykon could pull the move off.

Probably just to move the story along.

[Cleverdan22]

Alternately, maybe combat melee rules aren't set in stone in the OotS allowing a bit more combat flexibility. You know, just a thought...

QFT. Giant has stated this at some point or another.

[goodyarn]

Also, no reason to think V would fail the concentration check to cast defensively. Well, V does seem to have a poor concentration check modifier, so maybe he would.

I read it as Superb Dispelling made V fall into the Mind Fog, V was no longer protected by Mind Blank, consequentially got woozy, and began failing checks.

[Kobold-Bard]

Alternately, maybe combat melee rules aren't set in stone in the OotS allowing a bit more combat flexibility. You know, just a thought...

That is true, but I've seen the Giant's analysis of turns taken in the second fight with Miko and how the Order lost (people were complaining because we never saw the fight and it was impossible 1 person could take on the whole order). He puts a lot more thought into this stuff than I expected.

[good_lookin_gus]

From the SRD on the Fly spell:

Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends in this way if the fly spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field.

So unless Xykon's Superb Dispelling duplicates the effect of an Antimagic Field (which it might); V should have landed safely and had a full round to cast whatever.

[The MunchKING]

From the SRD on the Fly spell:


So unless Xykon's Superb Dispelling duplicates the effect of an Antimagic Field (which it might); V should have landed safely and had a full round to cast whatever.

If the Mind fog hadn't turned her brain into Elven Mush.

[Zevox]

Basically, yes, it shouldn't have happened that way by pure D&D rules. But the OotS has never run under pure D&D rules, and things which could not happen under them do sometimes happen here. I'd have thought that readers who have read the whole thing would be used to that by now.

Zevox

[Simanos]

From the SRD on the Fly spell:


So unless Xykon's Superb Dispelling duplicates the effect of an Antimagic Field (which it might); V should have landed safely and had a full round to cast whatever.
Thanks for pointing that out.

[Ancalagon]

All you need is a sucky initiative-roll from Vaarsuvius.

[Haven]

Anyone else ever read "Adventurers!"? Xykon is basically being Eternion here.

[zero]

Well, it can be explained if we're to accept Xykon has an str around 30 or more.

If the wall piece counts as an improvised weapon with reach (10 ft, possibly more), then Xykon right after casting superb dispelling, used his move action grabbing the wall. As V didn't cast defensively (maybe never expecting Xykon to go physical, dumb move anyway), he provoked an Attack of Opportunity.

Of course, the biggest question on all this is: How the heck Xykon has gotten so strong?

[Simanos]

All you need is a sucky initiative-roll from Vaarsuvius.
Except you don't reroll initiative in the middle of combat.
Xykon could have just punched (with his paralyzing touch no less), but the author simply did this for fun. The end result would be the same, so rule of cool applied nicely.

[good_lookin_gus]

Basically, yes, it shouldn't have happened that way by pure D&D rules. But the OotS has never run under pure D&D rules, and things which could not happen under them do sometimes happen here. I'd have thought that readers who have read the whole thing would be used to that by now.

Zevox

Um, actually the story remains largely consistent; and the violations are often a pun in the next strip. We mechanic buffs have an additional appreciation for the fact that the events occur mostly in accordance w/ the 3.5 ruleset. We also get disappointed w/ unacknowledged deviations.

[Learnedguy]

Well, it can be explained if we're to accept Xykon has an str around 30 or more.

If the wall piece counts as an improvised weapon with reach (10 ft, possibly more), then Xykon right after casting superb dispelling, used his move action grabbing the wall. As V didn't cast defensively (maybe never expecting Xykon to go physical, dumb move anyway), he provoked an Attack of Opportunity.

Of course, the biggest question on all this is: How the heck Xykon has gotten so strong?

A strength boosting item for **** and giggles?

I mean, it's pretty fun to physically beat up wizards you've utterly owned:smallbiggrin:

[HamsterOfTheGod]

From the way V is falling when she gets hit with superb dispelling, it looks like she should have fallen on her back, but in the next panel she is shown standing up. Given her wooziness from mind fog, that may have given Xykon enough time to grab the stone and then nail her with an AoO when she began casting

Yeah this sounds about right.

[The_Void]

Plot and humour >>>>> rules.

[vrellum]

I read it as Superb Dispelling made V fall into the Mind Fog, V was no longer protected by Mind Blank, consequentially got woozy, and began failing checks.

Appears so, although mind fog doesn't work that way.



On a different note,

Paralytic touch might have worked, though I bet someone out of the triad would have had a way to retaliate, such was with still spell and eschew material components (if necessary).

Another option would have been simply casting a will-save based spell, like dominate person or dominate monster, surely one of the 4 casters had that. V had a big penalty to will saves and would have almost assuredly have failed.

Another option is, one of the other characters interupted V's epic teleport with a held action and it happend off screen.

[zero]

Plot and humour >>>>> rules. Yes, yes, yes, we all know it, "plot trumps rules" yadda yadda... it had been said ad nauseam, oddly, precisely on threads that are discussing rules (one would expect that people who don't care about rules would stay away from such threads...)
Now, please, let us have our fun... Some people around here really find interesting to try to explain within D&D rules what happens on the strip (go figure that...).

About V losing a whole round falling, I am not particularly found of that solution... One falls at 60 ft per round once fly has been dispelled, they don't seem to be that high. More importantly, the act of falling does not disrupt any spell casting (the rules even have the very specific wording "If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely"). I'd say the "Wall piece counts as an improvised weapon with reach, allowing an attack of opportunity on the caster" remains the best solution, having only as its major flaw the apparently unexplainable strength displayed by Xykon.

[konradknox]

The chunk of rock was provided to Xykon from above. All he had to do is catch it and guide it to V's head.
Who made the rock fall from the building?
Any number of things:

1. The Earthquake caused by V's magic that weakened the walls of the castle.
2. Creature in the darkness foot stomp.
3. Tsukiko firing at the ceiling off-panel
4. Redcloak.
5. any of the 49999 hobgoblins who work for Xykon and happened to be on the roof, watching the scene through a hole in the ceiling.
6. any of the 29999 undead doing the same.

[Linkavitch]

Three words: Funny Trumps Rules.

[ff7hero]

Three words: Funny Trumps Rules.

Geez, reading trumps illiteracy.

[JJ48]

Three words: Funny Trumps Rules.

While I can certainly understand that sentiment, I think it doesn't really apply in this case. I think the more likely explanation is that...

SOD SPOILER
it parallels how Xykon killed Master Fyron (if I recall his name correctly), when he beat him to death with his own award. Perhaps this is becoming a running gag, where each time Xykon kills a wizard, he does so by beating them with a blunt object.

The main factors that don't really fit, though, are how he killed Dorukan and Professor Xavion.

[Moriarty]

...
having only as its major flaw the apparently unexplainable strength displayed by Xykon.

someone in the geekery thread pointed out that the rock isn't as heavy as it looks. it cant be made out of solid stone, because solid stone wouldn't have been broken by chain lightning; also, Xykons tower looks to me as it was rather "grown" than built

[Simanos]

Appears so, although mind fog doesn't work that way.



On a different note,

Paralytic touch might have worked, though I bet someone out of the triad would have had a way to retaliate, such was with still spell and eschew material components (if necessary).

Another option would have been simply casting a will-save based spell, like dominate person or dominate monster, surely one of the 4 casters had that. V had a big penalty to will saves and would have almost assuredly have failed.

Another option is, one of the other characters interupted V's epic teleport with a held action and it happend off screen.
You can't cast stilled spellls when paralyzed. You have to at least make it silent too.

[goodyarn]

Appears so, although mind fog doesn't work that way.

Not even to an elf who hasn't slept or reveried in...how long again?

[Quorothorn]

V used hir action to stand from prone, then Xykon took his action to slam V with a piece of rubble. I'm a bit hazy on how Xykon can do that, but... it's not a big deal or anything...

If you're wondering how he could swing around a big ol' stone like that, Xykon's incredibly strong physically: we've seen it before (most notably in SoD).