PDA

View Full Version : [PrC]Avenger



TheOOB
2006-08-05, 01:26 AM
The life of a paladin is a hard one. In their constant fight against evil a paladin must constantly balance on a razors edge, hovering always on the border between morality in in-morality. Many cannot stick to the paladin code, and find their divine abilities leave them when they leave the path of the paladin. Despite the loss of their divine sponsorship, some of these ex-paladins continue their fight against evil, adapting their tactics to make up for their lost abilities. No longer bound by the codes of good and honor, these warriors fight evil on their own terms, oftentimes using their opponents own tactics against them. The few that continue their battle against evil, even after their paladin abilities have forsaken them are called avengers, and they are among the most powerful and feared hunters of evil in the multiverse.

Avenger

Hit Die: d10
BAB: Full(As Fighter)
Saves: Good Fort, Poor Refl/Will(As Fighter)


Requirements
To qualify to become an avenger character must fulfill all of the following prerequisites
Alignment: Any non-evil
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Skills: Ride 4 ranks
Feats: Iron Will
Special: The character must be an ex-paladin, either because of alignment change or because they violated their code of conduct

Class Skills
The Avengers class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff(Cha), Concentration(Con), Craft(Int), Diplomacy(Cha), Disguise(Cha), Handle Animal(Cha), Heal(Wis), Knowledge(Religion)(Int), Profession(Wis), Ride(Dex), and Sense Motive(Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the avenger

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Avengers gain no additional weapon or armor proficiency

Detect Evil(Sp): At will, an avenger may use Detect Evil, as the spell.

Smite(Su): Once per day, an avenger may attempt to smite with one normal melee attack. She adds her charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 point of extra damage for each ex-paladin and avenger level she has.

At 5th level an avenger may smite 2 times per day, and at 10th level they may smite 3 times per day

Divine Grace(Su): At 2nd level, an avenger gains their charisma bonus(if any) on all saving throws.

Aura of Resolve (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, an avenger is immune to compulsion effects. Each ally within 10 feet of him gains a +4 moral bonus on saving throws against compulsion effects. This ability otherwise functions identically to the paladin's aura of courage class feature.

Turn Undead(Su): At 3rd level an avenger gains the ability to turn undead just as a cleric 2 level lower would.

Undetectable Alignment(Su): Starting at 4th level an avenger benefits from a constant undetectable alignment effect with a caster level equal to her avenger level. She may dismiss or resume this ability as a free action.

Spells: An avenger has the ability to cast a small number of divine spells. To cast an avenger spell, an avenger must have a Wisdom score of at least 10 + the spell’s level, so an avenger with a Wisdom of 10 or lower cannot cast these spells.

Avenger bonus spells are based on Wisdom, and saving throws against these spells have a DC of 10 + spell level + the avenger’s Wisdom modifier. When the avenger gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level. The avenger’s spell list appears below. an avenger has access to any spell on the list and can freely choose which to prepare, just as a cleric. An avenger prepares and casts spells just as a cleric does (though a avenger cannot spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells).

An avenger can cast a number of spells per day equal to a blackguard of their class level.

Celestial Companion(Su): At 5th level an avenger gains the benefit of a celestial companion. This companion is identical to the blackguards fiendish servant ability, except that the avenger may choose from a celestial cat, dog, hawk, horse, owl, pony, or riding dog, and the companion gains the undetectable Alignment ability identical to their master.

Avenger Spell List
Avengers choose their spells from the following list

1st Level
align weapon, bless, cure light wounds, detect poison, detect undead, divine favor, endure elements, magic weapon, protection from chaos/evil/law, inflict light wounds, remove fear, summon monster I

2nd Level
bull's strength, cure moderate wounds, delay poison, inflict moderate wounds, lesser restoration, remove paralysis, resist energy, shatter, shield other, summon monster II

3rd Level
cure serious wounds, daylight, discern lies, dispel magic, inflict serious wounds, magic circle against chaos/evil/law, magic weapon greater, remove blindness/deafness, protection from energy, remove curse, summon monster III

4th Level

break enchantment, cure critical wounds, death ward, dispel chaos/evil/law, freedom of movement, mark of justice, neutralize poison, inflict critical wounds, restoration, summon monster IV

Ex-Paladins
All avengers are ex-paladins, and they gain extra abilities the more paladin levels they have.

An ex-paladin who becomes an avenger gains all of the follow abilities that apply, according to the number of paladin levels they have.

1-2
The avenger regains any smite evil abilities they had while a paladin. They use their paladin and avenger level when determining the extra damage dealt.

3-4
The avenger regains the lay on hands ability, adding their avenger level to their paladin level to determine the amount they can heal each day.

5-6
The avenger regains their special mount, adding their avenger level to their paladin level to determine it's abilities.

7-8
The avenger regains their paladin aura of courage

9-10
The avenger regains any spell casting ability they possessed as a paladin.

11 or more
An ex-paladin of this stature immediately gains an avenger level for each level of paladin she trades in.

The character level of the character does not change. With the loss of paladin levels, the character no longer gains as many extra abilities for being an ex-paladin.

Squangos
2006-08-05, 07:23 AM
Apart from the slight niggle of "If they lose their divine abilities, why do they get Divine Grace?", it seems like an interesting PrC. Paladin 10/Avenger 10 seems stronger than Paladin 20 in all ways, though… Unless you need to treat plague victims or use Holy Sword, I guess.

TheOOB
2006-08-05, 03:44 PM
I thought that it might be overpowered as well. Any advice on how to balance it?

I_Got_This_Name
2006-08-05, 03:52 PM
I would probably not give it paladin powers, or celestial companion, and instead come up with some new abilities. I don't see these people as fallen paladins reclaiming their power, I see them as fallen paladins fighting in a new way; more brutish, more sneaky, etc. That would mean less divine power.

Sneak attack is a possibility, though. They probably wouldn't get Detect Evil. Undetectable Alignment is good, though. If they have to cast spells, perhaps theirs could be arcane?

TheOOB
2006-08-05, 05:26 PM
The problum with arcane spells is they can't be cast in armor, and since all members of this class are fallen paladins they probally all use heavy armor. I'll look over the class later today and change how things work a little, and see how it turns out.

I_Got_This_Name
2006-08-05, 05:31 PM
They could be given an armored casting ability.

Really, I just don't think they should be casting divine spells, or turning undead, or getting all of the other nice paladin features. Instead, I'd go for Sneak Attacks, possibly some special attacks against undead, and the like, but nothing divinely granted.

Squangos
2006-08-05, 06:22 PM
I suppose one way to get divine-like powers without any gods is to use Vestiges (from Tome of Magic)… Andras, The Gray Knight gives Smite Good/Evil and the ability to summon a mount, for instance.
Also, a lot of them didn't become Vestiges willingly… They could be seeking vengeance.

"Oftentimes using their opponents own tactics against them"? Skulking around in shadows before backstabbing, using lots of poison, inflicting pain, stuff like that?

If they don't get Detect Evil, maybe they could get a fierce gaze that affects evil creatures in some way? Seems more flavoursome to me.

TheOOB
2006-08-06, 01:35 AM
I changed the focus of the class alittle, an toned down the abilities gained for fallen paladins a little.

Avenger 2.0

Hit Die: d10

Requirements
To qualify to become an avenger character must fulfill all of the following prerequisites
Alignment: Any non-evil
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Skills: Sense Motive 4 ranks
Feats: Iron Will
Special: The character must be an ex-paladin, either because of alignment change or because they violated their code of conduct

Class Skills
The Avengers class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff(Cha), Concentration(Con), Craft(Int), Diplomacy(Cha), Disguise(Cha), Handle Animal(Cha), Heal(Wis), Hide(Dex), Knowledge(Religion)(Int), Listen(Wis), Move Silently(Dex), Profession(Wis), Ride(Dex), Sense Motive(Wis), and Spot(Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the avenger

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Avengers gain no additional weapon or armor proficiency

Smite(Su): Once per day, an avenger may attempt to smite with one normal melee attack. She adds her charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 point of extra damage for each avenger level she has.

At 5th level an avenger may smite 2 times per day, and at 10th level they may smite 3 times per day

Aura of Resolve (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, an avenger is immune to compulsion effects. Each ally within 10 feet of him gains a +4 moral bonus on saving throws against compulsion effects. This ability otherwise functions identically to the paladin's aura of courage class feature.
Sneak Attack(Ex): At 3rd level the avenger gains the ability to strike an opponent for extra damage when they are most vulnerable. This functions exactally as the rogue class feature of the same name.
At 3rd level an avenger adds 1d6 damage on a successful sneak attack. At 6th level this increases to 2d6 damage, and it increases again to 3d6 at level 9.
Undetectable Alignment(Su): Starting at 4th level an avenger benefits from a constant undetectable alignment effect with a caster level equal to her avenger level. She may dismiss or resume this ability as a free action.

Mettle(Ex): At 7th level an avenger gains the ability to shrug off some effects that would otherwise cause her harm. Whenever she succeeds a will or fortitude saving throw on an effect that normally has a diminished effect on a save, she instead is not affected by the effect at all

Unstoppable Valor(Su): An avenger always remembers the valor and honor of their previous profession, and can at times call upon this valor to allow her to continue fighting even when under the sway of magical effects. Once per day, as a free action, an avenger of 8th level or higher can use a targeted greater dispel magic on herself at a caster level equal to twice her class level. For every effect dispelled in this manner the avenger gains 1d4 temporary hit points. These temporary hit points last one minute before going away. An avenger may use this ability at any time, even while unconscious or under charm effects.

Spells: An avenger has the ability to cast a small number of divine spells. To cast an avenger spell, an avenger must have a Wisdom score of at least 10 + the spell’s level, so an avenger with a Wisdom of 10 or lower cannot cast these spells.

avenger bonus spells are based on Wisdom, and saving throws against these spells have a DC of 10 + spell level + the avenger’s Wisdom modifier. When the avenger gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level. The avenger’s spell list appears below. an avenger has access to any spell on the list and can freely choose which to prepare, just as a cleric. An avenger prepares and casts spells just as a cleric does (though a avenger cannot spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells).

An avenger can cast a number of spells per day equal to a blackguard of their class level.

Celestial Companion(Su): At 5th level an avenger gains the benefit of a celestial companion. This companion is identical to the blackguards fiendish servant ability, except that the avenger may choose from a celestial cat, dog, hawk, horse, owl, pony, or riding dog, and the companion gains the undetectable Alignment ability identical to their masters.

Avenger Spell List
Avengers choose their spells from the following list

1st Level
align weapon, cure light wounds, detect evil/chaos/law, detect poison, detect undead, endure elements, magic weapon, protection from chaos/evil/law, inflict light wounds, summon monster I

2nd Level
cure moderate wounds, delay poison, inflict moderate wounds, invisibility, lesser restoration, resist energy, see invisibility, shatter, silence, summon monster II

3rd Level
cure serious wounds, discern lies, dispel magic, inflict serious wounds, magic circle against chaos/evil/law, magic weapon greater, protection from energy, summon monster III

4th Level

break enchantment, cure critical wounds, death ward, freedom of movement, invisibility greater, mark of justice, neutralize poison, inflict critical wounds, summon monster IV

Ex-Paladins
All avengers are ex-paladins, and they gain extra abilities the more paladin levels they have, as they manage to regain a connection to some of their old divine abilities.

An ex-paladin who becomes an avenger gains all of the follow abilities that apply, according to the number of paladin levels they have.

1-2
Avenger gain no new special abilities

3-4
The avenger regains their ability to detect evil at will as a spell-like ability

5-6
The avenger regains her ability to turn undead, using her avenger level as her effective character level for the purposes of this ability.

7-8
The avenger regains their paladin aura of courage

9-10
The avenger regains her divine grace special ability

11 or more
An ex-paladin of this stature immediately gains an avenger level for each level of paladin she trades in.

The character level of the character does not change. With the loss of paladin levels, the character no longer gains as many extra abilities for being an ex-paladin.

adriankas
2006-08-06, 12:56 PM
I really don't think Avengers should be given divine spells: without backing from their deity, they shouldn't be given any divine ability at all. Right now this is basically a PrC for Fallen Paladins to suddenly become... paladins again. And for neutral characters to become sorta paladins.

I like the Sneak Attack and Undetectable Alignment in the new revision, and I guess mettle and the unstoppable valor are fine as just "abilities", but I don't think the Celestial Companion, Smite or spells should stay in.

The way I would take the class (and this is just my opinion... get from it what you will) is to build the class more around being a bitter vigilante... someone who is actually quite morally grey. Think Batman. Or V from V for Vendetta. The title "Avenger" means that their primary motivation is vengeance- not justice. They have a personal vendetta against that which they fight, and their actions are driven by emotion, rather than a sense of duty.

Here are some suggestion abilities (VERY rough, just off the top of my head):

Vengeful Wrath: the Avenger can channel his anger into a state of cold, murderous rage: they can still use abilities which require deep concentration, but they cannot perform actions that are not devoted towards eradicating his chosen enemy. (this should be weaker than the Barb's rage)

Vendetta: when fighting foes from a certain organization or ideology, the avenger gains bonuses in combat like the ranger.

Punishment: the Avenger may smite his foes like the Paladin, but the damage is not restricted to those of his opposing alignment.

Remorseless: the Avenger has lost his sense of honor- he only wishes to see that which has wronged him destroyed. He gains bonuses to certain skills (like move silently, sneak attack, sleight of hand, whatever) when fighting someone he has a vendetta against.

Cold Anger: the Avenger can bury distractions, pain and other emotions by flooding himself with anger. He can get a temporary boost to concentration, constitution, certain skills, will saves, etc. whatever

Fury: or conversely, the Avenger can let his anger loose, channeling it from a shield into a weapon- but leaving him defenseless and vulnerable. He hits harder and does more damage, but he gains penalties to concentration, constitution, certain skills, will saves, etc. whatever.

Feel My Pain: the Avenger can deal 10% (or whatever) of his missing hit points to a target (something like that)

Sacrifice: The Avenger can voluntarily choose to loose HP, and in return his attacks do more damage (yeah I know ripped from Diablo 2, so what)

Undeniable Vindication: The avenger can bypass damage reduction against enemies that he has a vendetta against.

TheOOB
2006-08-06, 03:13 PM
Perhaps the name is misleading, but I'm not trying to make this class the "angsty dark hero", but rather a class for ex-paladins who either acidently broke their code, or found their code too restrictive, but still want to continue their fight agienst evil. Their old god (or perhaps a new one) hasn't neccesarly forsaken them, but has rather granted them new abilities with which to fight evil. Even if the avenger doesn't have a god they are able to manifest the divine via sheer force of will. Remember, all it takes to manifest divine magic is enough faith, not a gods sponsorship.

endoperez
2006-08-06, 05:02 PM
If they oppose evil, but aren't necessarily good, I feel their companion shouldn't always be Celestial. I don't know of any better way to represent that ability, though...

Sneak attack is nice, but there should be more. Modeling it after Hexblade might work. Ability to Smite anything, but not necessarily detect evil, would also be good... If Avenger went evil, would he lose his powers? Or just be unable to advance as Avenger?

Favoured Enemy, as with ranger, would fit. Urban Ranger variant of being able to choose organizations as favoured enemies would also fit.
Getting some free Fighter feats would be an easy ability to add, and increase Avengers combat power.

However, while the concept of this class is very good, and there are some very good abilities... Besides giving more alignments access to paladin-like powers, this class is very similar to paladin. A paladin who took levels of Avenger might never violate his code of conduct, and could even stay as Lawful Good. If he ever Atoned, he would become a paladin again (but lose Avenger benefits). You might want to make your class different from the basic paladins.

What if they were able to, say, cast evil spells, rebuke and command undead, etc. They wouldn't need to, and they would become evil if they used their new powers too much - but they have the choice. As an example, you might check out the Assassin's spell list and add few fitting ones for Avenger.

adriankas
2006-08-07, 01:37 AM
Perhaps the name is misleading, but I'm not trying to make this class the "angsty dark hero", but rather a class for ex-paladins who either acidently broke their code, or found their code too restrictive, but still want to continue their fight agienst evil.
But um... they're still basically exactly like paladins, ability wise. And if you're talking about a less *restrictive* paladin character, roleplaying wise, then there already exists the Holy Liberator who is basically a chaotic good paladin (and heavily overpowered might I add).


Their old god (or perhaps a new one) hasn't neccesarly forsaken them, but has rather granted them new abilities with which to fight evil.

How is that any different from atonement? And how are these "new abilities" any different from a normal paladin? Fallen paladins are supposed to be punished for not roleplaying correctly... but this class allows them to bypass atonement spells and having to stay within their whole "code of honor" and STILL keep all their nifty abilities. You have to make it clearer how these Avengers differ from a normal paladin for it to get any real direction, imo, because right now it's just basically: Paladins. Again.


Even if the avenger doesn't have a god they are able to manifest the divine via sheer force of will. Remember, all it takes to manifest divine magic is enough faith, not a gods sponsorship.
only in Eberron

TheOOB
2006-08-07, 02:11 AM
No where does it say in the PHB that a cleric must worship a god, much less a paladin. The only core class I know of that must worship a good is favored soul.

I_Got_This_Name
2006-08-07, 02:20 AM
You don't have to worship a god in the default PHB setting, but not (I think) in Greyhawk proper, and certainly not in FR. I think the PHB says you need an ideal, though, and ideals can't think, and so can't forgive as easily as gods do. DM-made settings might say otherwise.

I still don't think they should get divine power through force of will. The Ronin class in Complete Warrior was much different from the Samurai, and it seems like pretty similar to what you're aiming for, except for Paladins instead of Samurai, and with their alignment working differently.

Really, I see Paladins who want to keep fighting evil, but find the code too strict, taking one of several paths:
1) Fighter. This lets them progress into being effective combatants, but they lose out on Paladin powers.
2) Ranger. Same thing; a careful and stealthy hunter and tracker of evil.
3) Barbarian (if now not lawful): A warrior that flies into a rage due to grief at the loss of their divine blessing.
4) Monk (if still lawful): A warrior so struck by their own imperfection that they chose to seek perfection, wielding inner strength rather than divine power. Actually, I could see a nice PrC for ex-paladin Monks.
5) Justicar (CW): Focuses on the Lawful side; arrests criminals to serve the cause of Good.
6) Knight of the Chalice (CW): Specialist demonslayer without a Paladin's code of conduct.

A PrC dedicated to an ex-paladin still fighting evil should look at those, not "whoops, I slipped on my Code. I'll just gain a level and get my abilities back." If you hadn't specifically said you didn't want a dark hero, I'd say that Rebuke Undead and evil magic might be good ideas for this. I'd still go with drawing on Arcane energies to fill the void.

Hmm. . . This has inspired me to do something like this.

Closet_Skeleton
2006-08-07, 05:05 AM
I would remove the ex-paladin requirement. It wouldn't hurt the concept to allow non-paladins in. Maybe change it to "anyone who has become dis-satisfied with their ideals but still struggles to hold onto their purpose in a world gone mad". Otherwise the ex-paladin benifits seem dumb, since it needs +6 base attack to get in you might as well move all the benifits a 6th level paladin gets into class features.