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Dant
2009-05-15, 04:00 PM
So, here's the deal. I need some help to generate some ideas for a game I'm running. It shouldn't matter to much, but I'm using the Unknown Armies system, which is percentile based.

For anyone actually familiar with it, I'm not using the base setting, though I am using elements from it. Instead of a fully postmodern magic style world, the campaign is significantly more oriented towards a heaven/hell conflict. Think less real-world Christianity and more like the Diablo setting.

Anyhow, I'm going to run a session based around the characters being sucked into the dreams of a slumbering demon. A very, very powerful one. Not quite prime evil territory, but the next best thing. I've got a few ideas I'm playing around with, but what I'm looking for are ideas for landscapes/scenarios, ect. I really want to avoid the most obvious cliches here, which is why I'm asking for help. If it makes a difference, the demon has been sleeping for a very long time and is slowly making the transition to a waking state. Additionally, the theme for this particular demon is very much death/war oriented. Thanks for any help.

tl, dr: Need ideas for session/sessions where characters interact with the dreams of a powerful, sleeping demon.

chiasaur11
2009-05-15, 05:17 PM
Well, one obvious bit is that anything the party kills slowly gets back up and right back to killing.

Also, consider Evil Dead style limbs reanimating and going after their former masters.

Bonus points if the party stumbles into the demon's nightmares of lovable kittens and free candy.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-05-15, 05:36 PM
More details about the demon might be helpful. Does it have a specific goal it dreams of - maybe a specific state or fate it wishes upon the world?

Are the PCs actually supposed to enter specific dreams the way we usually conceive them, where the demon sees itself as an actor or otherwise experiences or creates some events, or to simply enter the demon's subconscious in general?

What sort of themes do you want to get across? The futility of war, the arrogance of humanity, a sense of existentialist pain and pointlessness, the bittersweet nature of conflict and the relationship between conqueror and conquered...?

There's all sorts of directions you can take with the landscapes and scenery.

Endless battlefields, either:
- Bloody red and black fields of slaughter full of the cries of the dying, where cooling blood pools underfoot and sticks to your boots and ravens pick clean the flesh of the slain, where desperate hands reach out for help only to claw murderously at would-be rescuers.
- Silent, grey fields where bones rest among sparse, grey grasses under a sky of rolling grey clouds; where old spears jut from mounds of corpses slowly overtaken by dirt and grasses; where dead trees stick from stagnant pools, dead bodies leaning against them; and where the lone carrion-bird wheels abovehead, in the distance.

Demoniac charnelhouses, all blood and mangled limbs and red death without structure or end, flayed and splayed corpses littered on every surface, piles of severed heads with their tongues lolling out.

Impossible geography: the ground rising ahead and curving up to become the sky; Escherian structures, either entirely self-enclosed or floating in endless blackness; giant bodies, perhaps of impossible anatomy, floating in space; great spires connected by perilously narrow jutting balconies; a massive, endless stair spiraling about a pillar of rough, unhewn stone... the possibilities are limitless.

Pie Guy
2009-05-15, 11:11 PM
For the structures as mentioned above, google Klein's bottle.

chiasaur11
2009-05-15, 11:23 PM
For the structures as mentioned above, google Klein's bottle.

Tesseracts are pretty boss as well.

Work a couple of those in.

DaltonTrigger
2009-05-16, 12:35 AM
You could work in some twists as to how the characters interact with the world around them. Since it's a "dream world", maybe take a hint from Planescape: Torment and allow characters to shape minor things with their willpower.

Or maybe have them face emotional challenges, like in the Neverending Story. The Swamp of Despair that kills you if you lose hope? The statues that killl you if you doubt yourself? You can use a few sequences like that.

Maybe if they were to maintain focus the entire time that it's just a dream and they can't die, they don't suffer permanent death. Or maybe since this is a war demon and it revels in violence, the imaginary foes they face within cannot be conquered by any means of force. Don't be blatant about it, but don't let the players win by force in the typical D&D way. Make them find other solutions. Maybe displays of positive emotions--love, revelry, peace, forgiveness--unsettle and disturb the dream state, making the monsters within unable to harm the party so long as they can focus on their happy thoughts.

I dunno, just throwing stuff out there, but if you're going for a 'dream world' that's a great chance to throw away the typical laws of physics and the typical combat sequences in favor of true out-of-the-box thinking. It would be a shame to squander it by turning it into another series of attack rolls.

TheCountAlucard
2009-05-16, 12:56 AM
Might look through Heroes of Horror for ideas. One idea I frequently use when playing in a dreamscape is to frequently change the minor details. When the PCs walk across the grassy plains, they can barely see because of the new moon. They get attacked by a half-dozen dark red wolves, their jaws foaming with rabies. Next round, the moon is full, and the wolves are gray and outnumber the PCs four to one.

Pronounceable
2009-05-16, 12:58 AM
^^I approve of that. And blatantly stealing ideas: enemies can only be defeated by healing them or not fighting at all.

A perpetual battle where everything is automatically healed when near death. Keep a them locked in the loop till PCs wise up.


Also, fast growing corpses on trees. Starts with an embryo, swiftly becomes a dead baby, dead kid, dead teen, dead guy, dead grandpa, then decompose into skeleton (might optionally drop from the tree to attack at any stage).

Also also, bonus points for fiendish sheep. Jumping over a wall made of burning people. Bonus bonuses for numbers (with hundreds of digits) on their sides.

Haven
2009-05-16, 12:59 AM
Is your party familiar with the demon already? It might be interesting if they're expecting all this horrible death and war and nastiness and it turns out to be something more...low-key, simpler. The best way to accomplish this might be through symbolism: I imagine as a great, big, primal demon, individual humans don't mean that much to it ("puny mortals!") So in its dreams, humans (and their deaths) would be represented as something insignificant, and only in the middle of the sequence does the horror of what's going on dawn on them.

Let's see...one way that the scenario could work out is the PCs regain consciousness on the porch of a quaint old cottage. The door opens and an old man with a scarred face and thick glasses, looking very confused, invites them in. He says he's just sweeping up, and asks if they'd like to help. So he gives the PCs a mop, a broom, some soap, gloves for weeding the backyard, etc. and they clean up while he makes conversation, talks about how cleanliness is next to godliness, and while things are always so dirty, he doesn't mind and enjoys it...and gradually as he goes on, the connection becomes clearer (I'm trying to think of some ways it could be spelled out, but all of them feel a little too anvilicious, but hopefully you get the idea).

Once they've gotten the idea, after they've done some work, the old man offers them tea and they can try to get information on his plans; since the demon's asleep and the party's directly talking with its subconscious, it won't be too guarded and could slip them info (especially if they play along and gain its friendship, which could have repercussions when it awakens and hesitates for a bit if it tries to harm the party, because it recognizes them and feels good towards them but doesn't know from where).

Tsotha-lanti
2009-05-16, 03:22 AM
Haven, that is awesome - although I think I might go a bit creepier with it.

The PCs help the old man sweep up the porch. They help pull up weeds. They keep hearing this insistent, low whining noise, like a fly trapped between two windows somewhere not far off. It turns out to be the pathetic cries of the millions of dust-mote-sized human beings they have swept off the porch and into their deaths, and the screams of the almost imperceptible faces on the roots of the grasses...

Xuincherguixe
2009-05-16, 03:41 AM
Rather than defeating the demon with positive emotions... how about the team has to convince the Demon to accept itself. You know how crazy and violent Demons tend to be, they could all have warped, self destructive ways of thinking about things.

When it accepts itself, suddenly it vanishes in a burst of flame.

Did it escape Hell? Did it achieve enlightenment and moved beyond this world? Is it not possible for demons to exist that accept themselves? Who knows! Certainly not the players because you're an evil jerk who isn't going to explain it to them.

Hey, a lot of post modern art is very subject to interpretation.


Of course, there's the potential that they just don't care about the mysterious vanishing demon.


Defeating demons with love is really pretty cliche really. It's vulnerability could be some completely arbitrary thing too. Like a Subpoena. Or a door.

Maybe, after moping the floor with the PCs, suddenly it does that same vanishing thing. That'd throw them for a loop. No one would ever expect anything that anticlimactic.


Or you could also go full on Surrealism, and the PCs have to ride a tentacled, fanged horse inside the demons mouth, and start vomiting blue paint full of snakes.

Mordokai
2009-05-16, 03:45 AM
^^I approve of that. And blatantly stealing ideas: enemies can only be defeated by healing them or not fighting at all.

That was used in Baldur's Gate: SoA already. You got idea from there?

It's a very good way to make players think. Seeing how most DnD players are only "hack and slash, kill everything you see" oriented(I am too, mind you), it can provide quite a few problems for them. People just don't figure it out that healing, of all things out there, is what's going to kill his enemies. In aforementioned game, I threw all of my most powerful spells at the demon in question, attacked him with both of my tanks and he just wouldn't die. It took a simple CLW spell to kill him in the end. Boy, I sure felt stupid after that. Nevermind he actually droped hints all the time.

So yeah, this is a good idea, just don't overuse it. Or do. Imagine the surprise of the party when healing spells actually start healing their enemies :smallbiggrin:

I also like other ideas already mentioned here. Very nice!

bosssmiley
2009-05-16, 05:21 AM
Psychonauts + In Nomine's Dreamlands. Job done.

Dant
2009-05-16, 03:01 PM
This is giving me some good material to work with, so keep it up. :smallsmile:

I suppose I should clarify a few things. Mainly, it's a low-combat, conspiracy based campaign, with fairly mature players. Additionally, the Unknown Armies system has a crazy lethal damage/combat system. Which means the characters first reaction to violence is usually to run away, since the last time they fought something, the combat ended with all three characters on the ground, bleeding out and about a hairsbreadth from death. They also don't have much in the way of easily accessible healing magic. My bad really, I probably should have mentioned that stuff first. Still, doesn't mean I can't yank portions of those ideas anyhow.

The other thing is that the game has a robust sanity check system. Really, it's my favorite, coming ahead of CoC even. So, things that can drive characters insane are a plus.

The last thing is that the goal for the PC's is going to be to escape, at least after they figure out what has happened, at least to some extent. Vanquishing the demon isn't going to happen, partly because they are not powerful enough, and partly because its existence is a critical plot point later on. :smalltongue:

I strongly considered the whole torn battlefield thing, and I may still use it for part of the session. I'm thinking layers, so maybe things will get progressively darker and more violent the closer they get to the core of its mind. Still, I do want to try to avoid the most obvious stereotypes.

I really like the idea of repeatedly returning to life after dieing, over and over and over again. Can't believe I didn't think of that one on my own. Since the party isn't overly combat oriented, this means I can toss them into really nasty situations and not worry about wiping and losing a year of twisting conspiracy plot.

The ideas of causing issues for the demon through positive emotions are neat, and I'll probably keep some of them for use in a future D&D campaign focused around paladins and demon-hunting. In this case though, the power differential between the players and the demon is astonishingly large. If it ever actively realizes they are there, they will die/be driven insane.

I do really like the idea of a more subtle approach, with the demon viewing humans as little more than annoyances, little insignificant irritants. I'm not sure if I'll use that exact representation, but the idea is gold. Nothing for screwing with PC's like making them slowly come to a realization that something seemingly innocuous occurring in front of them is actually terrifying.

Impossible geography is, of course, a classic. There will be plenty of this, you can be assured. No point wasting a good dreamworld after all.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-05-16, 03:20 PM
This is taking on a very Mythos Outer God meets traditional fantasy demon -feel.

I really think picking some themes - especially ones important to your players' characters - would be good. Then show how meaningless these things are - love, family, peace, etc. The cosmic horror of realizing this thing that threatens everything you know and believe doesn't even perceive you as living, thinking creatures is gold, too. You could use ants as a representation, I suppose.

Oh, hell, I just thought of something...

The Mysterious Stranger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBGGAjMg9vw)

He's more directly concerned with people, but that's something to draw on. Creepy, surreal, and demonic. Also here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mysterious_Stranger).

Dant
2009-05-16, 04:15 PM
This is taking on a very Mythos Outer God meets traditional fantasy demon -feel.

I really think picking some themes - especially ones important to your players' characters - would be good. Then show how meaningless these things are - love, family, peace, etc. The cosmic horror of realizing this thing that threatens everything you know and believe doesn't even perceive you as living, thinking creatures is gold, too. You could use ants as a representation, I suppose.

Oh, hell, I just thought of something...

The Mysterious Stranger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBGGAjMg9vw)

He's more directly concerned with people, but that's something to draw on. Creepy, surreal, and demonic. Also here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mysterious_Stranger).

This is actually fairly accurate. I've been stealing minor elements from varying sources the entire campaign, everything from CoC to Hellblazer. Actually, Hellblazer is probably the closest comparison I can think of, though with stronger religious overtones.

I probably will be using themes dear to the individual characters. Lots of good fodder to work with. I've got a set of good roleplayers with interesting backstories. Probably add more of a violent twist to them though. Also, I had totally forgotten about that video. I remember wanting to use it for a game when I first saw it, so thanks. :smallbiggrin:

Tyrmatt
2009-05-16, 04:52 PM
If the demon is a proper fallen angel then there should be some kind of mournful prescence that can easily overwhelm not only the PC's but any other elements of the demon's psyche as well and will target the psyche elements for preference.
After all, an angel is hard-coded to love God. Pity those pour outcasts who have bathed in His divine radiance and are now cut off from it forever because they dared to exhibit the characteristics of his most favoured creations: Humans.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-05-16, 05:04 PM
If the demon is a proper fallen angel then there should be some kind of mournful prescence that can easily overwhelm not only the PC's but any other elements of the demon's psyche as well and will target the psyche elements for preference.
After all, an angel is hard-coded to love God. Pity those pour outcasts who have bathed in His divine radiance and are now cut off from it forever because they dared to exhibit the characteristics of his most favoured creations: Humans.

A sympathetic and tragic element could be really cool, even if the thing is undeniably evil, inhuman, and alien on a cosmic scale.

Godskook
2009-05-16, 05:31 PM
If you want to add some amusing elements, try modeling some dreams after KOL (http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Azazel%2C_Ma_Belle)