Look away from Tsukiko for a second and you'll see...

[EmeraldPhoenix]

...that V is now red-robed again. Shi's not evil anymore. Sorry if there's already another thread about this.

V IS NO LONGER EVIL! YAY! :smallbiggrin: No matter what happens now, V will not be of evil alignment again unless of hir own free will!:smallannoyed:

What do you think about THAT?

[dancrilis]

Wasn't it already covered that it was all her own free will.

[Optimystik]

Bait and switch! I thought this was a Tsukiko thread. :smallannoyed:

V has been depossessed, but it's a long way from there to redemption. Especially if the fiends show up to save his bacon with another offer in tow.

[Kish]

Wasn't it already covered that it was all her own free will.
Indeed.

It's an important thing not to overlook. What Vaarsuvius did while spliced? That was all Vaarsuvius' choice. The other souls could whisper to him/her, but that's all.

[Ancalagon]

I think Darth Vaarsuvius is still evil. If that wasn't "falling" then I do not know...

[Starscream]

::Looks away from Tsusiko::

Wow, you're right! And look, there's some sort of skeleton and some goblinoids in this strip as well!

[Zanaril]

The robe change ready drives home the danger V is in now. After so many strips of Evil!V and hir seemingly unlimited power, s/he's back to being recognisably hir own significatly more helpless self. With no way to escape.

[Lissou]

As I see it, the robe turning red again only means V isn't soul-spliced anymore. Nothing else.

[Trizap]

As I see it, the robe turning red again only means V isn't soul-spliced anymore. Nothing else.

which means she (I always V as a she, nothing else) is royally screwed, by now only a deus ex machina can save her......

[NerfTW]

V still made her choices out of his own free will. Robe color doesn't indicate alignment, just that she doesn't have the splice anymore. He's still responsible for the actions she took while spliced, most notably because he made the choice to accept the splice in the first place.

[Zanaril]

As I see it, the robe turning red again only means V isn't soul-spliced anymore. Nothing else.

It's a visable indication of the difference between spliced V and normal V. That last panel would have less impact (and I don't mean the giant rock...) if there wasn't the obvious change.

[rainbowjo]

...that V is now red-robed again. Shi's not evil anymore. Sorry if there's already another thread about this.

V IS NO LONGER EVIL! YAY! :smallbiggrin: No matter what happens now, V will not be of evil alignment again unless of hir own free will!:smallannoyed:

What do you think about THAT?

I noticed that too! I was going to post it myself, but I don't post often, and people wouldnt listen to a nameless pixie =P

But yes! I think defiantly the evil was circumstantial! The road to redemption will be longer, but I think returning the the red robe -after- the splice indicates that he/she is not evil by nature.

[Ancalagon]

Still evil. Mages are not colour-coded in OotS...

[Vemynal]

the obvious change was to signal the loss of power from the splices

the fiends aid it their selves, V was acting of hir own accord

[dish]

The teeth have gone back to normal as well.

The big question is: has V kept hir long hair, or has it gone back to that scruffly shoulder-length it was before?

[Keris]

The big question is: has V kept hir long hair, or has it gone back to that scruffly shoulder-length it was before?

Based on the half-panel we can see normal V in, the hair appears to be the same. He might trim it after escaping Xykon's clutches, or one this might be a permanent change. Alternatively, while the robe was a sudden change, the hair might take a little longer to return to it's previous length. After all, we can extrude hair, but not retract it.

[factotum]

But yes! I think defiantly the evil was circumstantial! The road to redemption will be longer, but I think returning the the red robe -after- the splice indicates that he/she is not evil by nature.

Of course! Because every other evil magic-user we've seen has had a black robe! Apart from Xykon. And Redcloak. And Pompey. And Leeky. And Hilgya. And...in fact, thinking about it, is there a single evil magic-user in the entire strip who habitually wears black, other than Tsukiko?

[Chronos]

And hey, look! Xykon's cape is red! He must not be evil, either.

That, or the color of a mage's clothes doesn't indicate alignment in OotS.

[spargel]

The only evil thing I recall V doing during that splice was familicide, and even that can be considered to be in the gray area.

Everything else she tried to do would be considered good acts for the wrong reasons.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

That's not fair! Dragons are color coded! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0207.html) I don't want to have to think, I just want to kill based on someone's color (clothing or scale), not the content of their character!

:smallwink:

What everybody else said. OotS wizards are not Dragonlance or Final Fantasy wizards. There is no color code. And probably no cake either.

[spargel]

That's not fair! Dragons are color coded! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0207.html) I don't want to have to think, I just want to kill based on someone's color (clothing or scale), not the content of their character!


Yeah, that's pretty much the only reason familicide is in the gray.

[Moriarty]

which means she (I always V as a she, nothing else) is royally screwed, by now only a deus ex machina can save her......

uuh.. are there by any chance some undead-dragon heads flying around?

without teleport spells V is gonna need some of these

[Haven]

Well...as "Start of Darkness" shows, OotS isn't a universe where "Always Chaotic Evil" necessarily applies. Right-Eye and hundreds of other goblins were perfectly content to live in a village and raise their families without raiding humans or being evil in any way.

And I would argue that even if it did apply, the difference would be meaningless if genocide justified via vendetta was a "good" act (Redcloak's grudge against Azure City is, I think, meant to highlight the fact that even if it's considered good in-universe, that's not necessarily valid). So yeah, V definitely crossed the line with Familicide.

[Kaytara]

which means she (I always V as a she, nothing else) is royally screwed, by now only a deus ex machina can save her......

Hmm, I don't think so. A Deus Ex Machina would have to come completely out of the blue in addition to being improbable. But Rich has already set up a possible complication for Team Evil - after all, there MUST be a reason why O-Chul and the MitD happen to be in this scene. A more interesting question would be how Vaarsuvius escapes the city - short of Dominating Tsukiko or having Aarindarius show up, I can't think of a way. Which may mean that Vaarsuvius WON'T leave the city but still manage to deal a blow to Xykon beforehand, like destroying the phylactery....

[Imgran]

Little too hopeful there I think. If Vaarsuvius escapes without becoming a new addition to Xykon's bling he'll be doing well at this point.

[Murdim]

A more interesting question would be how Vaarsuvius escapes the city - short of Dominating TsukikoHuh ? I didin't know Vaarsuvius was into that sort of kinky stuff...

[Kaytara]

Little too hopeful there I think. If Vaarsuvius escapes without becoming a new addition to Xykon's bling he'll be doing well at this point.

Yeah, which is what I meant that it's likely V WON'T be leaving the city. Separately from Team Evil, anyway. I have trouble believing that Rich would start another party separation plotline just like this, but it seems to be the only option here... Which, of course, just means that Rich will do something entirely different which neither of us have guessed. :)

[Dagren]

"No way to escape"? "Only a Deus ex Machina can save her"? I would disagree. It might not be easy to escape, and given V's performance it seems unlikely she could think of this, but I've already explained how I think V could escape in another thread. Basically, she can leave the tower through the large hole in the wall she conveniently made. She can use feather fall on the way down, and meet up with the resistance. They must have some means to protect themselves from scrying if they've survived for almost a year, and they can smuggle V out of the city. When Roy is raised, he will undoubtedly try to find V, and he's conveniently near to the Azure fleet, all he needs to do is find a level 9 wizard and that, as they say, is that. The Order are back together in a couple of days at the most. This all depends on V being in good enough shape to cast at all, of course, which isn't exactly a given. Still, it seems her best chance. Does anyone have any objections to this theory?

[Zanaril]

Huh ? I didin't know Vaarsuvius was into that sort of kinky stuff...

What, Evan's Spiked Tentacles wasn't a big enough clue? You obviously haven't been paying attention, that's a multi-purpose spell.

[Kish]

"No way to escape"? "Only a Deus ex Machina can save her"? I would disagree. It might not be easy to escape, and given V's performance it seems unlikely she could think of this, but I've already explained how I think V could escape in another thread. Basically, she can leave the tower through the large hole in the wall she conveniently made. She can use feather fall on the way down, and meet up with the resistance.
[...]
Does anyone have any objections to this theory?
One.

Given that Xykon just asserted the motivation to deal with the challenge to his rep conclusively and without pulling punches, why wouldn't he cast Flight and go after Vaarsuvius if s/he did that?

[Dagren]

Given that Xykon just asserted the motivation to deal with the challenge to his rep conclusively and without pulling punches, why wouldn't he cast Flight and go after Vaarsuvius if s/he did that?Depends. V is effectively beaten by this point, so he might not care anymore. Xykon is anything but predictable. Maybe he would stop this plan, but it's still a possibility for V to try. Besides, V has invisibility, which might at least slow him down enough for her to get to cover. It's just a thought, really. As I said I doubt V is with it enough for it to even occur to her.

[factotum]

One.

Given that Xykon just asserted the motivation to deal with the challenge to his rep conclusively and without pulling punches, why wouldn't he cast Flight and go after Vaarsuvius if s/he did that?

He doesn't even need to cast Flight--he's clearly already flying during most of the fight anyway (Xykon does like his Overland Flight spells). Anyway, Feather Fall reduces falling speed to 60 feet a round, so if the tower is more than 60 feet high (which seems fairly likely) Xykon's going to have all the time in the world to blast V with something while he's falling. Ironically, the safest place for V to be right now is inside the tower, because simple curiosity is going to make Xykon and Redcloak want to question him.

[Dagren]

Anyway, Feather Fall reduces falling speed to 60 feet a round, so if the tower is more than 60 feet high (which seems fairly likely) Xykon's going to have all the time in the world to blast V with something while he's falling.No, no, no. V wants to get away quickly, so she casts Feather Fall when she's already most of the way down. Also, Overland flight has a 40'/round speed, and even at double speed descending, that's still only 80'/round. It could take Xykon a few rounds to reach the ground. By which time, V is already invisible. It's far from guaranteed to work, but that's not really surprising given what a mess V is in to begin with, and I do believe she at least has a chance, however small.

[kpenguin]

No, no, no. V wants to get away quickly, so she casts Feather Fall when she's already most of the way down. Also, Overland flight has a 40'/round speed, and even at double speed descending, that's still only 80'/round. It could take Xykon a few rounds to reach the ground. By which time, V is already invisible. It's far from guaranteed to work, but that's not really surprising given what a mess V is in to begin with, and I do believe she at least has a chance, however small.

Not if Xykon spends his whole turn moving downward. With a double move that's 160 feet and if he runs that's 360 feet.

[Dagren]

Not if Xykon spends his whole turn moving downward. With a double move that's 160 feet and if he runs that's 360 feet.You can run while flying? Even so, I thought you needed to move in a straight line, which :xykon: can't do unless he's already outside the tower, which he isn't. Either way, this presumes that :xykon: will immediately chase :vaarsuvius:, not sit there saying "WTF? Did the elf just jump out of the window?" for a round or two. Slight chances seem to be all :vaarsuvius: has going for her at the moment.

[Starscream]

Xykon is totally evil, but he's also very unpredictable. He's got an ego, but can also be a bit pragmatic at times.

I mean, he offered to let Roy go, and he had actually defeated Xykon once (though whether Xykon recognized him as the same guy who destroyed his body is debatable). Clearly he is willing to let the occasional challenge slide, even if only because he finds it more amusing that way.

Maybe now that V is splice-less Xykon won't think s/he's a threat and let him/her go. Make some crack about V not even being worth any XP to him without the splices, and tell him/her to bug off.

[Kranden]

Unless of course selling your soul willingly to gentlemen of the lower planes counts as an evil act. I am not going to be surprised if he dies and ends up in hell :P

[Zanaril]

I mean, he offered to let Roy go, and he had actually defeated Xykon once (though whether Xykon recognized him as the same guy who destroyed his body is debatable). Clearly he is willing to let the occasional challenge slide, even if only because he finds it more amusing that way.

Maybe now that V is splice-less Xykon won't think s/he's a threat and let him/her go.

Go where? Into the city swarming with goblins?

Besides, this is a different situation from the one with Roy. Firstly, Xykon is currently in his own lair with nothing to do except make magic items, think up inventive tortures for O-chul, and twiddle his thumb bones. Whereas with Roy he was in the middle of a battle, up in the air, and had a more important goal in mind than killing PCs.
Also, Xykon recognised Roy as the "hero", whereas here it's been shown quite clearly that he knows V isn't attacking Xykon because he's Evil and she's Good, rather she's challenging him because she thinks she's better.

That's why, this time, Xykon isn't just going to say run along and level up a bit.

[Dagren]

Xykon is totally evil, but he's also very unpredictable. He's got an ego, but can also be a bit pragmatic at times.

I mean, he offered to let Roy go, and he had actually defeated Xykon once (though whether Xykon recognized him as the same guy who destroyed his body is debatable). Clearly he is willing to let the occasional challenge slide, even if only because he finds it more amusing that way.

Maybe now that V is splice-less Xykon won't think s/he's a threat and let him/her go. Make some crack about V not even being worth any XP to him without the splices, and tell him/her to bug off.With :roy:, he was the 'Questing Knight' type that :xykon: referred too, and he gave him a chance to escape then slapped him down hard. With :vaarsuvius:, he slapped her down hard, maybe now he'll give her the chance to escape? I wouldn't be surprised. Does he even consider her worth capturing or killing?

[Griever3216]

I apologise for this irrelevant post, but I was reminded something that made me giggle.


It's a visable indication of the difference between spliced V and normal V. That last panel would have less impact (and I don't mean the giant rock...) if there wasn't the obvious change.

YGOAS reference: Oh my God, a giant rock!:smalleek:

[badam104172]

wasn't it already established that V was not evil, but merely thought that she was not responsible for her actions?

[Starscream]

wasn't it already established that V was not evil, but merely thought that she was not responsible for her actions?

S/he was not forced to be evil. The fact that V committed genocide of his/her own free will is what makes him/her evil.

[Kish]

wasn't it already established that V was not evil, but merely thought that she was not responsible for her actions?
Good lord, no. What was established was just the opposite--that the souls had no power to actually influence Vaarsuvius' alignment or choices.

The fact that s/he would not have gone all Sephiroth if s/he hadn't been able to shove responsibility off on the spliced souls is a reason, not a justification.

[Foryn Gilnith]

The fact that V committed genocide of his/her own free will is what makes him/her evil.

You know, I consider pretty much everything V did but Familicide to be evil, and that the mass killing of the black dragons was actually one of the more Good things V did with her/his time...

[The Dark Fiddler]

Don't turn this into another "Famlicide: Good or evil?" thread. We had like... 40454325^4 of them.

[Morgan Wick]

It's a visable indication of the difference between spliced V and normal V. That last panel would have less impact (and I don't mean the giant rock...) if there wasn't the obvious change.

Actually it might have more impact as far as the forums are concerned if he kept the black robes... an indication the splice irredeemably turned her evil. And not out of the question, considering the robes didn't lighten when he lost Haerta.

[pendell]

Actually, there is color-coding in OOTS, but not based on alignment.
Rich Burlew tells us in book 1 comments that V is an opposite to Zzd'tri partly
because V is red-robed while Zz is green-robed. Evidently those are two
different order of mages in OOTS characterized by those two colors. I suspect red robes
are primarily blasters while green robes go for transmutation and other, more subtle
effects. Again, going by the commentary.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[wootage]

S/he was not forced to be evil. The fact that V committed genocide of his/her own free will is what makes him/her evil.

Not genocide, familicide - a mass murder of beings related by blood. It was personal and specific to said relationship and not targeted at all beings of a certain race.

[wootage]

Actually, there is color-coding in OOTS, but not based on alignment.
Rich Burlew tells us in book 1 comments that V is an opposite to Zzd'tri partly
because V is red-robed while Zz is green-robed. Evidently those are two
different order of mages in OOTS characterized by those two colors. I suspect red robes
are primarily blasters while green robes go for transmutation and other, more subtle
effects. Again, going by the commentary.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Huh, that reminded me of something I read in one of the sections here. Rich has a fantasy campaign where the two major magic schools are Red and Green magic. Of course now I can't find the reference...