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Swordguy
2009-05-16, 10:56 PM
Yeah, so my group has decided that they want to go back to AD&D, and, naturally, they've decided that I have to DM. However, I've not run the system in nigh-on a decade, and they're specifically asking for a mid-to-high-level 1-shot adventure to reintroduce them to the game. 1-shot adventure in our group means pregenerated characters.

Unfortunately, that means they've got to start with some loot to begin with, and I can't recall at all roughly WHEN AD&D adventurers get levels of equipment. They're all starting at 600,000 XP (so between 9-11th level). I'm thinking a single +3 weapon or equivalent (nice staff for a wizard, or a +2 weapon with a cool ability) for everybody, +2-3ish armor for the meleers, +1 armor for thieves/bards, and 3-5 miscellaneous magic items per person (rings, cloaks, etc), plus 2-3 potions per person and 2 scrolls for priests and mages.

I'd like them to have some cool loot - since 10th level in AD&D is pretty darn impressive - but I'm trying to stay away from Monty Haul syndrome in the first place. Thoughts? Like I said, it's been 10 years since I've really run AD&D, and I'm completely rusty on balancing equipment for characters.

shadzar
2009-05-16, 11:33 PM
The neat thing about AD&D is you don't have to give then any magic items.

Hey its a one-shot.

Toss em a Rod of Lordly Might and a portable hole and that be it.

DaltonTrigger
2009-05-17, 12:05 AM
Way back when I played AD&D I had a level 9 rogue with a +1 short sword and thought I was a god among men. :smallamused:

Oracle_Hunter
2009-05-17, 01:01 AM
Yeah, there is no "standard loot" in AD&D - it was part of the charm.

Anyhoo, if you have access to a stack of Dragon Magazines (or the Encyclopedia Magica) you can pick out some "cool" items there. Otherwise, pick items they would need for the adventure (remember damage resistance!) and let each player design a single magic item that would fit their character concept; like a Flaming Sword of Trollslaying (+1/+3 v. Trolls) that was forged for him by the grateful Dwarven King after the party held off the Endless Hordes of Breakbone the Troll-king.

If you're dealing with decent RPers they can probably figure out what signature item would make them happiest. Be sure to make sure its not too overpowered ("no, you can't have a Double Staff of the Magi") but otherwise roll with it.

Remember: in AD&D magic items were awesome. They may not always have much game benefit, but they always did cool stuff.

Swordguy
2009-05-17, 01:26 AM
Well, to be fair, the adventure I'm planning (out of DUNGEON #49) requires magic weapons and magic armor, at least, to succeed. So giving them a portable hole and an everfull mug of beer, while vastly amusing, isn't likely to present an enjoyable game experience.

The main thing I'm looking at isn't so much a "standard" amount of treasure, as how many cool items they can have (with minor to moderate FX) so they have options. I'm not talking about handing out vorpral weapons, dancing swords, and staves of the magi here.

Really, what I'm most concerned about is miscellaneous magic - as noted, they're FUN. But I'm trying to avoid a monty-haul-esque atmosphere here. So how much to you guys remember having at these fairly high levels? I mean, we're past the "landed" level (9th) where you get a title and a stronghold as a class feature, which strongly implies you're a hefty mover and shaker...

I guess, for example, the proposed loadout for the Dwarf Fighter9/Cleric9 is the following:

Potion of Healing

Spell Scroll (4 spells, TBA)

Gauntlets of Swimming & Climbing

Girdle of Many Pouches

Lens of Detection

+2 Bronze Plate Mail heavily inscribed with sigils of Moradin

Thunderstrike, +1 Maul (3 charges/day; 1 charge:+2d6 dmg, 2 charges: +2d6 damage and a 60% chance of knocking prone a Medium or smaller opponent, 50% chance of knocking prone a Large opponent)



So, how the magic item porridge? Too hot? Too cold? Just right?

shadzar
2009-05-17, 01:33 AM
Ok so an old dungeon adventure eh?

Well what monsters in there do you want them to fight?

Of those monsters that need to be fought to pas the encounter, which require magic items to handle?

What types of magic items are required?

What classes will be in the party to use any +X weapons?

What attacks do things have that must be fought?

What kind of armor will be needed to weaken the party severely to the brink of a half-party kill without becoming a TPK or making it a cake walk?

These are the things you must ask to figure out what magic items they will need, and what they could use and have funy with.

Figurines of Wondrous Power make for some great distractions/autonomous weapons that can inflict magic damage to creature not otherwise touched by non-magic items.

Also would this be 1st edition character, or 2nd?

Seems a foolish question, but looking at the classes that will be present and the monsters presented in them it acutally does make a difference for some things.

DaltonTrigger
2009-05-17, 01:38 AM
I think aside from my +1 sword I had a few potions, a ring of blending (I don't remember the details but it was like a camouflage spell or something), and.... uh... some kind of other magical ring. The mage made tons of magical rings of something-or-other because we led and expedition into HELL (yes, at 9th level) and the mage hired a small army of heroes and mercenaries to get us through, equipping us all with these rings to do so.

Back in those days a good DM and lots of imagination went far. You didn't have to make an entire build with a feat tree just so you could hire some mercenaries or build a siege weapon. This is why I like AD&D more than 3.5 despite the ridiculously designed stats system. in AD&D it really felt like nothing was off-limits.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-05-17, 02:03 AM
Seems OK for me.

Of course, I never played a game of AD&D where I reached 10th level. Good times :smallbiggrin:

I think you're probably worrying too much about this. In particular, a Monty Haul one-shot is one where the PCs find a lot of treasure; if they start with it already, they're going to consider it as part of their character. Provided the adventure isn't baited with treasure, this really isn't much of an issue.

Remmirath
2009-05-17, 02:25 AM
Well, the best item I can recall actually having at tenth level back when I played AD&D was a +1 broadsword that was also intelligent (and did some other things that my DM never told me at the time... I believe it gave some kind of bonus to thief skills, and 1d3 electrical damage on a percentile chance I never quite figured out). The same character also had, I believe, +2 padded leather armour, and a bear amulet that would summon a bear if you said a certain phrase (definitely that one. He made extensive use of it).

However, I don't know if that's anything like standard - if 'standard' can really be applied too well to AD&D in any way.
I know at the end of Baldur's Gate/beginning of Shadows of Amn you're lucky to have something that's +2, and very lucky to have +3, and you're around the same level. Of course, strictly speaking, not only is it a computer game, it's version 2 (I guess I just assumed you meant version 1. If not, well, ignore that bit).

The loot you've got there looks fine to me. Myself, I'd probably give them the absoloute minimum they need to survive to begin with, and then seed some better loot throughout the dungeon. Magic items are usually more fun when you find them yourself, in my opinion. :smallbiggrin:

Oracle_Hunter
2009-05-17, 03:21 AM
The loot you've got there looks fine to me. Myself, I'd probably give them the absoloute minimum they need to survive to begin with, and then seed some better loot throughout the dungeon. Magic items are usually more fun when you find them yourself, in my opinion. :smallbiggrin:
QFT

In particular, position powerful magical items inside obviously dangerous rooms and watch the PCs debate whether to get it.
Wizard: "Dude, it's a Staff of Power - we have to have it!"
Fighter: "It is literally surrounded by Rust Monsters. You want it, you get it!"
Wizard: "Oh come on, how bad could it be?"
Cleric: "The thief said the same thing before trying to tightrope over that Sphere of Annihilation to get that Ring of Invisibility."
DM: :smallbiggrin:

bosssmiley
2009-05-17, 03:36 AM
IIRC there's an NPC party generation section in the back of the 1E DMG. That talked about something like a 10% chance per character level that primary items (weapon, armour, wand/stave, etc) were enchanted. There were also additional charts with various other 'add to taste' items (everything from a brace of potions up to an iron fortress or cubic gate).

Tsotha-lanti
2009-05-17, 04:02 AM
Unfortunately, that means they've got to start with some loot to begin with, and I can't recall at all roughly WHEN AD&D adventurers get levels of equipment. They're all starting at 600,000 XP (so between 9-11th level). I'm thinking a single +3 weapon or equivalent (nice staff for a wizard, or a +2 weapon with a cool ability) for everybody, +2-3ish armor for the meleers, +1 armor for thieves/bards, and 3-5 miscellaneous magic items per person (rings, cloaks, etc), plus 2-3 potions per person and 2 scrolls for priests and mages.

That looks pretty much right to me, and pretty much like various adventures recommended PCs of similar level to be outfitted.

FoE
2009-05-17, 04:19 AM
Remember: in AD&D magic items were awesome. They may not always have much game benefit, but they always did cool stuff.

Or cursed. At least fifty per cent of all magic items were cursed.

Premier
2009-05-17, 04:24 AM
Wizard: "Dude, it's a Staff of Power - we have to have it!"
Fighter: "It is literally surrounded by Rust Monsters. You want it, you get it!"
Wizard: "Oh come on, how bad could it be?"
Cleric: "The thief said the same thing before trying to tightrope over that Sphere of Annihilation to get that Ring of Invisibility."
DM: :smallbiggrin:

Of course, in 1E the wizard would just give all his metallic items to the Fighter for safekeeping, then walk in and simply TAKE the staff. Then, if he's feeling cruel, he can spend the next hour beating the poor creatures to death with his fists. After all, Rust Monsters don't do any HP damage, and don't damage anything non-metallic.

Matthew
2009-05-17, 10:56 AM
You may find the tournament character sections of some AD&D adventures useful for gauging this sort of thing. Here, for example, are the magical item lists for the tournament characters in Against the Giants:



Level 12 Magician

wand of fire (20 charges), ring of protection +1, bracers of defense AC 4, robe of blending, scroll (confusion, monster summoning III), potion of healing, 2 potions of extra healing

Level 13 Thief

short sword +2, displacer cloak, dust of disappearance (12 pinches), scroll (ice storm), bag of holding (1000 lb. capacity), potion of healing, 2 potions of extra-healing

Level 12 Cleric

mace +2, plate mail +2, shield +2, 2 potions of invisibility, potion of diminution, 2 potions of extra-healing

Level 14 Fighter

spear +3, battle axe +1, plate mail +2, shield +5, 4 potions of invisibility, potion of healing, 2 potions of extra-healing

Level 5/8 Fighter/Magician

sword +2, 6 javelins of lightning, splint mail +2, ring of protection +2, ring of regeneration, elven cloak and boots, scroll (continual light, hold monster), potion of healing, 2 potions of extra-healing

Level 9 Cleric

staff of striking, hammer +1, plate mail +2, potion of healing, 2 potions of extra-healing

Level 9 Fighter

dwarven hammer +3, plate mail +1, shield +1, ring of invisibility, boots of striding and springing, 2 potions of extra-healing

Level 9 Magician

wand of frost (20 charges), cloak of protection +2, ring of protection +3, scroll (shield, phantasmal force, web, passwall), potion of healing, 2 potions of extra healing

Level 9 Ranger

sword +1, crossbow of speed, 30 bolts +2, chainmail +2, shield +2, elven cloak and boots, sneezing dust (5 pinches), dust of appearance (5 pinches), dust of disappearance (5 pinches), potion of healing, 2 potions of extra healing

Swordguy
2009-05-17, 01:02 PM
Awesome. Thanks guys.