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View Full Version : Here's a fun challenge. Make a villain.



Shinizak
2009-05-17, 11:23 AM
Make a level 27 gestalt druid/sorcerer lich as powerful as you can. If needed you may only use the sorcerer side for multi-classing. (so if you needed to you could make a Druid 27/[sorcerer 22 + archmage 5]).

books allowed are the complete series (for spells and equipment only), book of vile darkness, libris mortis, & spell compendium.

Epic casting is allowed.

stats are as followed... stats BEFORE bonus points and template.

STR: 17
DEX: 15
CON: -
INT: 15
WIS: 17
CHA: 18

Happy min-maxing.

Gralamin
2009-05-17, 11:35 AM
Make a level 27 gestalt druid/sorcerer lich as powerful as you can. If needed you may only use the sorcerer side for multi-classing. (so if you needed to you could make a Druid 27/[sorcerer 22 + archmage 5]).

books allowed are the complete series (for spells and equipment only), book of vile darkness, & spell compendium.

stats are as followed...

STR: 17
DEX: 15
CON: -
INT: 15
WIS: 17
CHA: 18

Happy min-maxing.

Are those stats pre or post templates and levels? The first thing that strikes me is you currently don't have enough Wisdom and Charisma for level 9 spells.

Furthermore, Are we allowed to use Epic spellcasting?

The Glyphstone
2009-05-17, 11:36 AM
If you want a Lich Druid, you'll have to add Libris Mortis to the list, it's the only source I know of other than Binder that permits Undead Wild Shape.

Totally Guy
2009-05-17, 11:46 AM
Make a villian? More like make your villain.:smalltongue:

Shinizak
2009-05-17, 11:51 AM
Make a villian? More like make your villain.:smalltongue:

Shhhhhhh! :smallwink:

Tsotha-lanti
2009-05-17, 01:09 PM
Epic casting is allowed.

Then there's no upper limit for "as powerful as you can." With epic casting, all limits go away. The character has essentially infinitely boosted stats, infinitely powerful protection, and anything it wants.

It's just a matter of bothering to craft the epic spells it uses - but, really, you don't need to bother. It has a spell that permanently kills anything and everything without a save, as many targets as it wants at practically infinite range. There's a bunch of mitigation going on, but it's probably irrelevant what it is precisely.

BobVosh
2009-05-17, 01:19 PM
Then there's no upper limit for "as powerful as you can." With epic casting, all limits go away. The character has essentially infinitely boosted stats, infinitely powerful protection, and anything it wants.

It's just a matter of bothering to craft the epic spells it uses - but, really, you don't need to bother. It has a spell that permanently kills anything and everything without a save, as many targets as it wants at practically infinite range. There's a bunch of mitigation going on, but it's probably irrelevant what it is precisely.

To mitigate that much DC he would need a hella lot of solars/otherwise bound spell casters...not that that is hard

Could you explain why it is a druid lich? Or just the fluff behind it, because as is the thing is nothing but effort and boring.

Jack_Simth
2009-05-17, 01:22 PM
Epic casting is allowed.

This, in and of itself, makes it an exercise in futility. See, Epic Casting, run as written, can get you arbitrarily high anything. You simply make some Permanent Summoning spells for spellcasting critters, and use those to mitigate, all at Spellcraft DC 0. The only trick is finding the lowest CR Outsider with the highest level spellcasting available for your Permanent Summons, and figuring out how to manage the initial ones - and the Planar Binding line covers that quite nicely.

Even without that, though, you've still got lots of craziness unless you put some kind of cheese limiters on there - the Candle of Invocation (LE) Gating in Efreeti, forcing them to grant you three wishes, some of which you use for more LE candles of Invocation, the rest of which you use for whatever.

Perhaps a more interesting challenge would be to see how low a level of a Lich can make a very, very nasty dungeon?

As to the people who say you can't Wildshape when you're undead: Neither the Druid Wild Shape class feature nor the Alternate Form ability it inherits from require you to be a living creature to use Wildshape.

Harperfan7
2009-05-17, 01:29 PM
Can you be a lich druid? Kinda seems almost like an oxymoron.

RTGoodman
2009-05-17, 01:36 PM
Can you be a lich druid? Kinda seems almost like an oxymoron.

"Undeath is natural - it's just the interaction of the Negative Energy Plane with our own world. Death itself is natural too, so by killing you I'm simply aiding the circle of life."

See, you can fluff-justify almost anything with a little ingenuity (and a slight helping of ye olde BS).

Bayar
2009-05-17, 01:38 PM
Can you be a lich druid? Kinda seems almost like an oxymoron.

Yeah, you can make a lich ranger by eating your animal companion, so i cant see why you cant make a lich druid.

/humorous reference to a quote in someone's sig.

The Glyphstone
2009-05-18, 02:02 PM
As to the people who say you can't Wildshape when you're undead: Neither the Druid Wild Shape class feature nor the Alternate Form ability it inherits from require you to be a living creature to use Wildshape.

I've completely lost track of the Wild Shape erratta, so you may be right - the Corrupted Wild Shape feat in Libris Mortis says "Normal: Since it is based on the Polymorph spell, wild shape only works on living creatures", but WS isn't based on Polymorph anymore, is it?

Jack_Simth
2009-05-18, 05:40 PM
I've completely lost track of the Wild Shape erratta, so you may be right - the Corrupted Wild Shape feat in Libris Mortis says "Normal: Since it is based on the Polymorph spell, wild shape only works on living creatures", but WS isn't based on Polymorph anymore, is it?

No. It was errata'd to be based off... Alternate Form, I think it was ... from the Monster Manual.

Eldariel
2009-05-18, 05:47 PM
No. It was errata'd to be based off... Alternate Form, I think it was ... from the Monster Manual.

Use SRD. It has the latest errata.