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View Full Version : Thinking like a Rogue (3.5)



Coidzor
2009-05-17, 07:16 PM
So I recently was attempting to break into a prison of the city of Brindol following the events of the RHOD Battle of Brindol to obtain the Wyrmlord that had been slave-collared by our pissed off Tiefling Monk (who had enough GPs to spare to hire me on for the scheme). She was awaiting trial and execution, since I'd managed to help diffuse the initial conflict over the monk taking the wyrmlord as a slave and the city attempting to take her into custody by getting them to agree that they'd let us determine and carry out her execution if the trial decided such was the course of action to take... Not to mention the argument in the party, since the Tiefling is one step away from being evil and the paladin disagrees with slavery. He's currently got her and two necromancers that his church caught bonded to him so that they can't cause more trouble than they already had, and that it's at least targeted at other evil entities.

ANYWAY, I was invisible and in the dungeon by the time I realized I didn't have enough sleep spells to take down all of the level 4 fighters(8 on that level, 8 on the floor above, 4 at the sealed doors) that were assigned especially to guard her cell, and that I couldn't subdue all of them before the entire keep was on top of me. I probably could've killed them easily and busted down the door.

Come to think of it, the party needs an adamantine mace(or sommat similar) for when we just need to bust down a door.

Part of the problem was that I didn't really think things through due to the fact that all of this was coming up when really we all wanted to get on to the final dungeon of the campaign. Should've just told the monk that the job could wait until we got back.

But, uh, yeah, for the most part I botched the job and ended up dancing on a couple of flaming spheres that the wizards on call threw at me. I made the reflex saves easily, and was using my hat of disguise to look like a hobgoblin in traditional festival dancing clothes (I was aiming for lederhosen :smallbiggrin:) when the rest of the party finally woke up from the general alarm at 2 AM and caught me.

So I'm wondering what sort of items I need, I'm thinking something that I can use to lay down an area of silence while I kick some ass/get through doors/sneak around, and maybe a subdual enchantment for a sap?

The Gilded Duke
2009-05-17, 07:57 PM
Sap shouldn't need subdual enchantment, it automatically does nonlethal and makes all precision damage nonlethal as well. If you want something that has a bit more damage truncheon in book of exalted deeds I think is a d6 martial weapon that works exactly the same. I think you might be able to Power Attack with it.

As far as being silent, what is wrong with the spell Silence?
You can cast it on yourself, or on an object that you carry and then it acts as a 20 foot emanation. You could either get a normal wand of it, or perhaps an eternal wand from the Eberron Campaign setting.

Other items you might want in general:
Arcane Key from Sharn City of Towers, lets you pick magical locks.
Powder of Silent Pasage: 3 uses, 300 gp, temporarily suppresses alarm spells, might be used to temporarily deactivate traps triggered by alarm.

An Adamantine weapon for breaking down barriers is always useful.
Flour Pouch from Dungeonscape for marking invisible creatures.
Wand Sheaths from Dungeonscape so you can have wands ready while holding weapons and shields.

Colmarr
2009-05-17, 08:03 PM
Isn't it a bit late to be thinking of equipment?

I doubt that there's a merchant/item crafter in prison (if you've been caught) or open in the middle of the night and willing to deal with someone being chased by guards and adventurers (if you're on the run).

Edit: Or are you asking so that you can make sure you have the proper equipment next time? In which case, I'll leave it to others to advise :smallsmile:

Coidzor
2009-05-18, 01:28 AM
Edit: Or are you asking so that you can make sure you have the proper equipment next time? In which case, I'll leave it to others to advise :smallsmile:

Yeah, I managed to fool the Paladin that I was bored and wanted to make sure that no one could bust the wyrmlord out, so now I just have to worry about keeping from being "bonded" to him as well, as does he, since he's getting an ulcer from having to juggle the necromancers. I also lost a fair bit of gold as a "donation" to beef up security down there.

This is basically my realizing that I need better gear for the future and for reference... I remember seeing a reference of good choices in rogue gear and was partially hoping I'd maybe find it again, partially wondering if anyone had any good suggestions.

I think my main problem was that I didn't know there was an anti-magic field set up in the prison cell.

Right now, we've gone back to bed and are teleporting out into the wilderness in the afternoon after collecting some of the things we got new enchantments on, in order to hunt down the evil mastermind behind the invasion force we crushed.

Darrin
2009-05-18, 09:38 AM
This is basically my realizing that I need better gear for the future and for reference... I remember seeing a reference of good choices in rogue gear and was partially hoping I'd maybe find it again, partially wondering if anyone had any good suggestions.


Marbles (A&EG p. 24): A non-magical 5'x5' grease spell, similar to caltrops but renders most foes flat-footed. Buy a monkey and train it to spread the marbles in a specific square as a move action. Familiars/wild cohorts/animal companions might be able to do this as a free action.

Flash Pellet (CompAdv p. 118) or Flashstone (Dragon Compendium p. 117): Grenade-like weapon, 5' radius Fort save DC 15 = blinded for 1 round (pellet) or 15' diameter Fort save DC 16 = blinded for 1 round (stone). Blinded opponents treat you as an invisible attacker (i.e., no dex bonus). You can train animals (with hands) to throw at specific squares (Dragon #323, p. 101, Handle Animal DC 25).

Stonebreaker Acid (A&EG p. 35): Ignores hardness, 5d10 damage to 5'x5' section of stone. A 5'x5'x1' section of stone has somewhere between 22 to 45 HP, depending on if its made of masonry, hewn stone, or unworked stone.

Rust Cube (Complete Scoundrel p. 111): Ignores hardness, 3d6 damage to metal. Eating through an iron door/portcullis (2 inches thick) takes 60 HP of damage, or roughly 6 rust cubes. Dissolving a specifc bar, hinge, or lock would probably take less.

Panic Button (Complete Scoundrel p. 115): Dimension door up to 30', possibly as a swift action (if not wearing armor). Only 750 GP. If you're looking for something that can be used multiple times: Anklet of Translocation (MIC p. 71), dimension door 10' 2/day as a swift action.

Potion/wand of Hoard Gullet (Dragon Magic p. 68): Bag of holding in your stomach, up to 1000 lbs of whatever you can swallow. Only lasts 1 hour/caster level, but if you know you're going to be captured/arrested, you can smuggle in enough equipment to dismantle an entire prison. Note: avoid rope trick, portable hole, etc.

Potion/wand of Heroics (Spell Compendium p. 113): Grants you a fighter bonus feat for 10 min/caster level. Martial Study (Tome of Battle) is a bonus fighter feat, which can give you Mountain Hammer (standard attack, ignore DR and hardness, +2d6 bonus damage). With multiple potion/castings, you can get White Raven Tactics (grant extra turn to ally) or Iron Heart Surge (standard action to end any negative status effects).

Potion of Gaseous Form (DMG): A good get out of jail/grapple/stomach free card, 750 GP.

Talisman of the Disk (MIC p. 188): Tenser's floating disk at will. Although you can't ride it by RAW, someone else can stand on it while you climb/levitate/fly. Dozens of other uses.

Marvelous Pigments (DMG): Part One of Turn the DM's Grudge Dungeon Into A Cakewalk Kit. Create your own Rube Goldberg device. Need an 11.5 foot pole? A gold fish bowl? Suspenders for a hummingbird? Chicken's teeth? Never again get frustrated by a puzzle Requires some ranks in Craft: Painting, but it's not like rogues are short on skill points.

Gloves of Object Reading (MIC p. 107): Part Two of Turn the DM's Grudge Dungeon Into A Cakewalk Kit. Trap, huh... how did the previous owner disable or get past it? Door won't open... how did the previous owner open it? Found a magic item but no idenfity handy and no command word conveniently inscribed on it... how did the previous owner activate it? Killed a goblin with 20 GP on him, where did he get that kind of money? If your DM ever runs an investigation scenario with discovering evidence, tracking down clues, etc., solve it in less than a minute. Guaranteed to drive any DM nuts, and bring down upon you a few 100d6 Hellfire Bolts of Mordenkainen's Disjunction.



I think my main problem was that I didn't know there was an anti-magic field set up in the prison cell.


In any campaign world with sufficiently high levels of magic, you should assume that the authorities are familiar with spells/items/abilities that can circumvent incarceration.

AMFs are extremely difficult to get around. Alchemical items will still work, but most methods of smuggling them in become problematic. The most effective way to deal with AMF is to take a few Martial Study feats or a few levels of Warblade and pick up Iron Heart Surge and Mountain Hammer. IHS allows you to negate an AMF, and Mountain Hammer allows you to ignore hardness when attacking objects.

Curmudgeon
2009-05-18, 09:47 AM
Marbles (A&EG p. 24): A non-magical 5'x5' grease spell, similar to caltrops but renders most foes flat-footed. Buy a monkey and train it to spread the marbles in a specific square as a move action. Familiars/wild cohorts/animal companions might be able to do this as a free action. Really bad idea. A Monkey has no ranks in Move Silently. They just can't keep quiet. And Handle Animal is a cross-class skill for Rogues.

The Gilded Duke
2009-05-18, 10:30 AM
If you can pick up an arcane caster level, like from Assassin or Bard pick up a familiar instead. It has your ranks in all skills.

herrhauptmann
2009-05-20, 03:00 PM
Potion/wand of Hoard Gullet (Dragon Magic p. 68): Bag of holding in your stomach, up to 1000 lbs of whatever you can swallow. Only lasts 1 hour/caster level, but if you know you're going to be captured/arrested, you can smuggle in enough equipment to dismantle an entire prison. Note: avoid rope trick, portable hole, etc.

Don't think bags of holding have a problem with anything besides a portable hole.

Is there a rule saying how easy/hard it is to swallow an object? A set of thieves tools can indeed fit down your throat (at least if done one by one), but I can't imagine being able to swallow a handful of pens (approx size of a good lockpicking kit) in a timely manner.