Looking for other gamers opinions

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I am creating my own RPG, and I would like to get some input from other gamers before I finalize everything, and start shopping for a publisher.

I would really appreciate honest answers to the following questions

1) Would requiring lots of dice (at least in mid and high level play) per roll make you less likely to play the game. If not, would you change that opinion if another method of generating a similar bell curve without requiring physical dice was presented with it?

2) Do you feel that the game mechanics should support Multiple Stat Dependency to minimize 'min/maxing'? If so, do you feel that the Multiple Stat Dependency should be relatively equal among the characters/classes, without a way to make a character dependent on only a single stat?

3) Would having a 'point buy' type system for stat generation be something that would make the game more appealing, or would it detract from the game?

4) Would having broad, general classes representing general archetypes that can be further customized through character creation and development be a bonus, or would it be something that would make you less likely to play? If less likely, would you rather a 'classless' system (like GURPS) or would you prefer something with more rigid classes (like D&D)?

5) Would you be upset if there was no multiclassing/duo-classing? How about if the classes were flexible enough that you could eventually get at least proficient in nearly anything, if you really wanted to?

6) Would you like a rich, in-depth world pre-created (for example, releasing the Forgotten Realms world-book along with the Core rules), or would you prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics? If you would like the world pre-created, would you like it in a single, massive book, or would you like the Rulebook, then the Worldbook released simultaneously (likely with a 'package deal'), or would you like to get just the Rulebook out the door fastest, then release the Worldbook some six months to a year later?

7) Would you be upset if the rulebook(s) only came in digital format, perhaps with software bundled to make it easier to use (such as dice generator, mapper, and other gaming software), if it meant the rulebook was MUCH less expensive (around $10.00 USD vs $40-$50 for a physical book)?

8) Would you be upset if the rulebook had some form of DRM software which prevented it from being copied more than once, but would allow it to be moved around (so you could put it on your zip drive and bring it to your friend's house, and keep a backup copy at home. You could even let your friend borrow the zip drive, or move the file from the zip drive to HIS computer, but could not cop/paste it to his computer)?

*Clarification: You will be able to print the book, in fact, it prints out already set up to go into a 3 ring Binder. although there may be a watermark on every page in a manner that would not interfere with the normal use of the book (perhaps set it up so that it ends up obscuring large portions if copied, but otherwise almost unseen, like the watermark "VOID" on the front of most checks printed today that is almost unseen until you try to scan or xerox it)

I would really appreciate any input, as I am getting close to the final stages of putting this thing together. I've already run one beta game session with my local gaming group, and done some 'bug fixing', but it really needs a lot more beta-testing, before it is ready to be released. Once it has been sufficently cleaned up, I will start looking at publishers, or, failing that, probably release under a form of SRD.

Until I have either found a publisher or released the game under an SRD, I will not be accepting any beta-testers online. This is due to possible legal complications that I have been warned about. While I really appreciate any offers to help beta-test my game, until I get certain legal issues cleared up, I cannot accept these offers.

[WrathOfLife]

1) Personally, I don't mind needing lots of dice. Nothing makes you feel powerful like having to throw two handfuls of dice.

2) Multiple Stat Dependency, should be equal among the classes. I would say its one of the main reasons monk gets frowned on so much and the wizard gets so much limelight (that and its awesome spells, but remember, if it took 3 stats to cast, would you be so keen on it?).

3) I'm a big fan of point buy, mutants and masterminds really sold me on this one.

4) I like classless systems, however they have to be balanced REALLY carefully, otherwise everyone ends up taking the same power/feat, because its simply too good to pass up.

5) I wouldn't be upset, but I would need something cool and interesting to aim for every level. Nothing is worse than d&d's dead levels.

6) I think a rule book + world book would be the way to go. That way everyone is happy and the world book might help give examples on how some of the rules can be applied.

7) Yes and no.... I love having a book there to use, and yet, I love savings. I really do. If I could have an electronic version, the ability to print out pages would be a must, perhaps have a watermark that shows during printing to stop people trying to sell it after printing or something.

8) Not If I could print, if I couldn't, then given the system you talked about, I would be happy. Of course you'll need a troubleshooting hotline for the issues that will come up.

All in all sounds interesting. Hope I helped.

[DamnedIrishman]

1) Would requiring lots of dice (at least in mid and high level play) per roll make you less likely to play the game. If not, would you change that opinion if another method of generating a similar bell curve without requiring physical dice was presented with it?


Really, this would depend on how many dice. Certainly, a larger number of die rolls tends to slow down combat and makes PbP less appealing. Also, more dice generally equates to less casual gamers, in my (limited) experience.




2) Do you feel that the game mechanics should support Multiple Stat Dependency to minimize 'min/maxing'? If so, do you feel that the Multiple Stat Dependency should be relatively equal among the characters/classes, without a way to make a character dependent on only a single stat?

Yes.



3) Would having a 'point buy' type system for stat generation be something that would make the game more appealing, or would it detract from the game?


A point-buy system makes for better balanced characters, but it does lose some of the excitement of creating your character. However, many people simply reroll until they get a good set anyway, so it doesn't make a huge difference. Optional point buys are useful when people roll appalingly badly.



4) Would having broad, general classes representing general archetypes that can be further customized through character creation and development be a bonus, or would it be something that would make you less likely to play? If less likely, would you rather a 'classless' system (like GURPS) or would you prefer something with more rigid classes (like D&D)?


I prefer classless/archetype systems over rigid classes.



5) Would you be upset if there was no multiclassing/duo-classing? How about if the classes were flexible enough that you could eventually get at least proficient in nearly anything, if you really wanted to?


No, especially if characters were flexible enough to become proficient in nearly anything anyway.



6) Would you like a rich, in-depth world pre-created (for example, releasing the Forgotten Realms world-book along with the Core rules), or would you prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics? If you would like the world pre-created, would you like it in a single, massive book, or would you like the Rulebook, then the Worldbook released simultaneously (likely with a 'package deal'), or would you like to get just the Rulebook out the door fastest, then release the Worldbook some six months to a year later?


Seperate rulebook and worldbook, but a preexisting campaign world encourages players, as it means their GM doesn't have to do too much work to play a few games with the system. After all, you don't want to design a campaign world then find out you don't like the feel of the game, do you?



7) Would you be upset if the rulebook(s) only came in digital format, perhaps with software bundled to make it easier to use (such as dice generator, mapper, and other gaming software), if it meant the rulebook was MUCH less expensive (around $10.00 USD vs $40-$50 for a physical book)?
.

I dislike reading digital formats, but I don't dislike it enough not to do it. However, I have a laptop and some people don't. Even if only digital formats were released, it'd be nice to print a special hardcover collector's edition at some point for traditionalists.



8) Would you be upset if the rulebook had some form of DRM software which prevented it from being copied more than once, but would allow it to be moved around (so you could put it on your zip drive and bring it to your friend's house, and keep a backup copy at home. You could even let your friend borrow the zip drive, or move the file from the zip drive to HIS computer, but could not cop/paste it to his computer)?


I hate DRM. But then again, I'm not the one losing profits to copyright fraud. The whole subject is slightly irrelevant, as it will eventually be broken and your rules will become torrents. But surely that's a sign of popularity?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I added a clarification that it would be able to be printed, although there may be a watermark.


Really, this would depend on how many dice. Certainly, a larger number of die rolls tends to slow down combat and makes PbP less appealing. Also, more dice generally equates to less casual gamers, in my (limited) experience. Probably not more than 10 dice at a time, unless you really focused on that particular skill or ability and are extremely high level, with a full boatload of buffs. Note that they will be all the same die size, and almost never has any static bonuses (i.e. +x), which makes it easier for PbP gaming.


A point-buy system makes for better balanced characters, but it does lose some of the excitement of creating your character. However, many people simply reroll until they get a good set anyway, so it doesn't make a huge difference. Optional point buys are useful when people roll appalingly badly. Hmm... I see your point. I was doing it mostly to avoid the "I re-rolled my stats until I got straight 18's, don't I PWN!" problem, particularly because stats are more significant, and have almost no way to increase beyond a certain point.


I dislike reading digital formats, but I don't dislike it enough not to do it. However, I have a laptop and some people don't. Even if only digital formats were released, it'd be nice to print a special hardcover collector's edition at some point for traditionalists. Hmm... that would be something to discuss with a publisher. Thanks for pointing that out.


I hate DRM. But then again, I'm not the one losing profits to copyright fraud. The whole subject is slightly irrelevant, as it will eventually be broken and your rules will become torrents. But surely that's a sign of popularity? True, 256 bit encryption can make it sufficiently annoying to not bother breaking into, which is why the printing will likely come with a watermark, because at that point it will be easier to print and scan than to break the encryption on the DRM.

Thanks a bunch for the responses! Keep 'em coming!

[Istari]

1) Depends on how many 6+ is too much to use constantly but we be ok to use for some things (like character creation)

2) Depends on how much some multi-stat dependency is ok and being able to use each stat is good but requiring a majority of the stats would be too much, There should be some variation but there should not be a big difference in multi-stat dependency between classes

3) point buy is fine, I don't have too much preference either way

4) No, I like your idea

5) Yes If you can't get at least a little bit of other classes abilities I would be disappointed, and yes I don't mind I a character can be good with a lot of things but they should not be able to do everything even if they can't do everything very well

6) I would prefer in separate books but at the same time so you don't have to get it but people who want it have quick access to it

7) No I would prefer book format slightly but if its that much cheaper I like the virtual idea better especially with the bonus software

8) Slightly but I wouldn't make an issue of it at all

Hope that helps

[Dark_Scary]

First, I want to say, what type of game is it? That really changes the answers. What do you want your game to do? Who should play it?

For this, I'm going to assume D&D the way I most enjoy playing it.


1) Would requiring lots of dice (at least in mid and high level play) per roll make you less likely to play the game. If not, would you change that opinion if another method of generating a similar bell curve without requiring physical dice was presented with it?

Many dice is fine by me.


2) Do you feel that the game mechanics should support Multiple Stat Dependency to minimize 'min/maxing'? If so, do you feel that the Multiple Stat Dependency should be relatively equal among the characters/classes, without a way to make a character dependent on only a single stat?

No. Stats are actually mostly legacy, and not good. You should be able to arrange things so that you only need 3 stats, and one is your focus.


3) Would having a 'point buy' type system for stat generation be something that would make the game more appealing, or would it detract from the game?

Yes. See stats as legacy. I should be able to make the character I want to play.


4) Would having broad, general classes representing general archetypes that can be further customized through character creation and development be a bonus, or would it be something that would make you less likely to play? If less likely, would you rather a 'classless' system (like GURPS) or would you prefer something with more rigid classes (like D&D)?

This really depends on the genre. But hypothetically, I would say, classes should be what power sources in 4e should have been. A class should be Wizard, or Shadowcaster, but you should be able to make different kinds of Shadowcasters or Wizards, even some that do melee, or single target, or AoE, or damage or debuffs.


5) Would you be upset if there was no multiclassing/duo-classing? How about if the classes were flexible enough that you could eventually get at least proficient in nearly anything, if you really wanted to?

Well, as my above classes, you can't really be multiclassed, but as I said, it should be flexible in that class should not lock you into role.


6) Would you like a rich, in-depth world pre-created (for example, releasing the Forgotten Realms world-book along with the Core rules), or would you prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics? If you would like the world pre-created, would you like it in a single, massive book, or would you like the Rulebook, then the Worldbook released simultaneously (likely with a 'package deal'), or would you like to get just the Rulebook out the door fastest, then release the Worldbook some six months to a year later?

Probably an existing world. But I would try to make it included in the core material, sort of like Greyhawk in D&D. Ideas about what kinds of things exist is good, specific places is not.


7) Would you be upset if the rulebook(s) only came in digital format, perhaps with software bundled to make it easier to use (such as dice generator, mapper, and other gaming software), if it meant the rulebook was MUCH less expensive (around $10.00 USD vs $40-$50 for a physical book)?

That would be fine by me. In fact, preferred.


8) Would you be upset if the rulebook had some form of DRM software which prevented it from being copied more than once, but would allow it to be moved around (so you could put it on your zip drive and bring it to your friend's house, and keep a backup copy at home. You could even let your friend borrow the zip drive, or move the file from the zip drive to HIS computer, but could not cop/paste it to his computer)?

Generally speaking I would be upset by any DRM of any kind because I don't like that **** on my computer. But I would be willing to make wide allowances based on how not intrusive it is.

Honestly, you should just build it as restrictions into the file if you can, not as actual running crap. If someone wants to crack your material a lot, they will, but if it requires even a modicum of programming that will stop all but the people who would also defeat your DRM.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

First, I want to say, what type of game is it? That really changes the answers. What do you want your game to do? Who should play it?

For this, I'm going to assume D&D the way I most enjoy playing it. It's an RPG designed primarily for Table-Top, but some consideration for playing online has been given. When you ask 'what type of game is it', what do you mean?


No. Stats are actually mostly legacy, and not good. You should be able to arrange things so that you only need 3 stats, and one is your focus. I was actually thinking of requiring around 3 out of 6 on a consistent basis and the other three inconsistently but enough to either discourage min/maxing or be weaknesses the GM can exploit to bring the character down a peg or two if he becomes obnoxious. Specifically, there is no way to change which stat governs an action.


This really depends on the genre. But hypothetically, I would say, classes should be what power sources in 4e should have been. A class should be Wizard, or Shadowcaster, but you should be able to make different kinds of Shadowcasters or Wizards, even some that do melee, or single target, or AoE, or damage or debuffs.

Well, as my above classes, you can't really be multiclassed, but as I said, it should be flexible in that class should not lock you into role. That's kind of my idea, also taking some inspiration from NWoD's Exalted type games where you have an archytype that is your 'class' (i.e. Dawn), which is probably where you are going to focus, but can also become proficient in other skills if you are willing to spend the character points on it.


Probably an existing world. But I would try to make it included in the core material, sort of like Greyhawk in D&D. Ideas about what kinds of things exist is good, specific places is not. Yea, at the very least, if the idea of a separate worldbook doesn't pan out, this will happen.


Generally speaking I would be upset by any DRM of any kind because I don't like that **** on my computer. But I would be willing to make wide allowances based on how not intrusive it is.

Honestly, you should just build it as restrictions into the file if you can, not as actual running crap. If someone wants to crack your material a lot, they will, but if it requires even a modicum of programming that will stop all but the people who would also defeat your DRM.That is going to be, in effect, what will happen. Built in restrictions on copy. Any copy of the original is unable to be copied, any original may only be copied once.

[DamnedIrishman]

Probably not more than 10 dice at a time, unless you really focused on that particular skill or ability and are extremely high level, with a full boatload of buffs. Note that they will be all the same die size, and almost never has any static bonuses (i.e. +x), which makes it easier for PbP gaming.



If the main set is in a digital format (encouraging a laptop) with a dice roller, then it doesn't matter how many dice are being rolled as the program could be designed to handle the combat round. If going with this route, how about (I know this is farfetched) a player's application for iPhone/Blackberry etc to deal with important rolls?



Hmm... I see your point. I was doing it mostly to avoid the "I re-rolled my stats until I got straight 18's, don't I PWN!" problem, particularly because stats are more significant, and have almost no way to increase beyond a certain point.


If the GM doesn't stop this kind of player then they may do that, but I don't know any GM who allows unlimited rerolling. There's nothing wrong with using a point-buy system only though. As has been pointed out above - they allow us to make the sort of characters we want to play.

[GolemsVoice]

1) It depends. If I have to make a lot of rolls just to achieve something relatively mundane, or something I have to do very often, like an attack or damage roll, I would dislike it. But using lots of dice in a single roll, like high-level Sneak Attack is no problem for me, it's actually very fun!

2) I wouldn't mind a certain emphasis on a single stat, but it shouldn't make or break a character. Worse than that, however, is requiring many stats and/or substats to create an archetypic character. Also, having to use stats that really don't fit with a character role to emulate something that is archetypical for a role annoys me to no end.

3) I know many gamers who love point-buy system, because it rewards planning and eleminates the risk of rolling a really awful set of stats, but I don't mind rolling randomly, I actually enjoy the "risk", and the possibility to really shine.

4) I don't mind either, but there should always be a way to play classic characters without ending up with very little power. If you use classes, a little space for customization certainly does not hurt, and D&D lacks this sometimes. (Vampire can sometimes be like that. Sometimes, skills that go great together, and make a good archetype are in wildly different categories, and I always end up with to many points in one, and to little points in the other categroy.)

5) See 4) There should be a way, in my opinion, to achieve everything, given enough time and XP, or whatever it takes to get better. A given path is of course no problem, but there should be ways to change it's course, or add a new one.

6) I think the way WotC dealt with this issue is a good way. If your rules are great, but I don't like the setting, I can only buy the rules. If I ilke both, I buy both. But you should create a basic world, because when I buy an RPG, I really don't have the nerve to create my own world to go with it, and I think many gamers feel the same. By separating game world and rules, however, players have a ready-made world to play in, and abstract rules that are not tied to the setting which they can use to create their own world.

7) I really like my rulebooks printed, because you can hand them out to whoever needs them at the moment (imagine having only one PHB, and having a group of 5 people who wnat to make characters!), and having something to actually touch and present on my shelves is something I want to have, but if it was much cheaper, it would probably be ok. Keep in mind, however, that purchasing rulebooks online might require a credit card, which many people, especially younger ones, inclduing me, might not have.

8) That is, of course, your good right, and also a necessary business strategy.

[Tsotha-lanti]

1. Two or three dice per roll is optimal, but I can live with up to ten or so dice if you're using a system where each die over X is a success (it's easy to physically move the successes and get a quick tally).

2. Games that put as much focus as possible on skills and as little as possible on stats are best; in fact, systems with no stats and only skills could work great. If there have to be stats, you should parse them down to the minimum possible number and maybe make skills dependant on them; that way, each is about as valuable.

3. Point buy and allocation beats random generation every time.

4. Classless is better than classes; you can always model classes with packages of pre-bought options. Classes with exclusive abilities, or classes that define some attributes, are a big no-no. Exclusive abilities should be exclusive to in-character groups or entities. (This can even work for d20, see M&M.)

5. If there's no classes, there's no such thing as multiclassing. If there must be classes, either they must be so broad and non-defining (possibly only affecting your starting skills) that multiclassing would be no benefit, or else multiclassing must be actively encouraged (see Conan d20).

6. I'm neutral. Generally, systems and settings can be created completely independently. However, it's important for each system to have a theme at its core - mechanics built around a theme work much better for that theme. For instance, Pendragon is built for playing Arthurian knights, Trail of Cthulhu is built for Mythos horror, Legend of Five Rings is built for vaguely-Japanese samurai horror/action/intrigue.

7. PDFs are great - it keeps overhead down and allows for cheaper books. Bundling is fine, but don't integrate - most gamers are savvy enough to be able to figure out how to use programs themselves, and anyone who's computer-savvy is generally annoyed when features are force-fed to them.

8. I'm opposed to all manner of DRM. Instead, I suggest working up a scheme where actual buyers get ongoing support or updates for free; for instance, if you buy the core book once, you get all subsequent revisions for free. There's a lot of ways to encourage people to buy your product without making it difficult to own (and, indeed, if the cost is low and your product is good, people will happily pay for it). All DRM and copy-protection can be circumvented, and only one person needs to do it just once to make it completely useless. It's a losing battle.

[Raum]

I am creating my own RPG, and I would like to get some input from other gamers before I finalize everything, and start shopping for a publisher. Good luck! It's a lot of work.


I would really appreciate honest answers to the following questionsOk...just remember, you asked for it. :-)


1) Would requiring lots of dice...While I've enjoyed such systems in the past (Shadowrun), I don't have the time or desire to use them today. I've gravitated towards more streamlined systems over the years.


2) Do you feel that the game mechanics should support Multiple Stat Dependency...My favored game systems have typically de-emphasized ability scores to one degree or another. In other words, if you can min/max effectively by simply emphasizing one ability to the detriment of others, the abilities are too important. Note - this is different from simply requiring multiple abilities.


3) Would having a 'point buy' type system...Point buy systems are cool. In some ways even preferable.


4) Would having broad, general classes...I typically prefer broad, general archetypes...Shadowrun or Unisystem style. Both are very similar to classes, but they don't prevent you from picking things generally part of other archetypes as long as you're willing to accept not advancing (and possibly even weakening) your current powers. In other words, keep class archetypes but lose set packages and other limitations.


5) Would you be upset if there was no multiclassing/duo-classing?See above answer...


6) Would you like a rich, in-depth world pre-created (for example, releasing the Forgotten Realms world-book along with the Core rules), or would you prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics? If you would like the world pre-created, would you like it in a single, massive book, or would you like the Rulebook, then the Worldbook released simultaneously (likely with a 'package deal'), or would you like to get just the Rulebook out the door fastest, then release the Worldbook some six months to a year later?Hmm...I'd suggest separating them. If they're tied together I'm likely to avoid purchasing it at all if either system or world don't interest me. Separated I might pick up an interesting setting even if the rules don't interest me...or vice versa.


7) Would you be upset if the rulebook(s) only came in digital format...Upset? No. Likely to purchase? Also no. I prefer dead tree. That may change when / if I purchase an ebook reader (don't like the Kindles so far) but until then PDF/digital purchases will be purely secondary. And when I do purchase digital, I look for easily portable formats such as PDF.


8) Would you be upset if the rulebook had some form of DRM...Upset? Again no...and again I'm not going to purchase. Some short advice (which could and does take up entire forums, essays, and books) - DRM doesn't work for long. Even the RIAA (whose pockets are far bigger than mine) has started backing away from DRM. In general, DRM is a waste of time and money. If it's popular someone will crack it. If it's not, adding DRM probably cost too much.

Regarding publishers, there's always Lulu for dead tree format - if you're in the US. They charge too much to easily ship overseas. Good luck with your project.

[toasty]

1) Would requiring lots of dice (at least in mid and high level play) per roll make you less likely to play the game. If not, would you change that opinion if another method of generating a similar bell curve without requiring physical dice was presented with it?

Rolling lots of dice doesn't bother me. I don't care either way.


2) Do you feel that the game mechanics should support Multiple Stat Dependency to minimize 'min/maxing'? If so, do you feel that the Multiple Stat Dependency should be relatively equal among the characters/classes, without a way to make a character dependent on only a single stat?

Umm... I don't know honestly. I just wouldn't allow min/maxers into my gaming group.


3) Would having a 'point buy' type system for stat generation be something that would make the game more appealing, or would it detract from the game?

I like both point buy and random rolls, either one works for me.


4) Would having broad, general classes representing general archetypes that can be further customized through character creation and development be a bonus, or would it be something that would make you less likely to play? If less likely, would you rather a 'classless' system (like GURPS) or would you prefer something with more rigid classes (like D&D)?

Honestly, I dislike the rigid classes of D&D, I prefer systems with archetypes and more general classes, or even classless systems.


5) Would you be upset if there was no multiclassing/duo-classing? How about if the classes were flexible enough that you could eventually get at least proficient in nearly anything, if you really wanted to?

As long as I can get my concept turned into gaming terms I'm happy. If multiclassing makes sense, it should exist. If it doesn't, it shouldn't.


6) Would you like a rich, in-depth world pre-created (for example, releasing the Forgotten Realms world-book along with the Core rules), or would you prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics? If you would like the world pre-created, would you like it in a single, massive book, or would you like the Rulebook, then the Worldbook released simultaneously (likely with a 'package deal'), or would you like to get just the Rulebook out the door fastest, then release the Worldbook some six months to a year later?

I prefer settings to go with the rules because I find that the best rulesets are unique and take ideas from the settings. NOT rules that are tacked onto a setting or visa versa. I would prefer a bare minimum of fluff placed into the primary book with most of it in a separate book, hopefully published at the same time as the "core rule book".


7) Would you be upset if the rulebook(s) only came in digital format, perhaps with software bundled to make it easier to use (such as dice generator, mapper, and other gaming software), if it meant the rulebook was MUCH less expensive (around $10.00 USD vs $40-$50 for a physical book)?

Seeing as for various reasons right now I'm only buying E-books... I wouldn't be upset at all.


8) Would you be upset if the rulebook had some form of DRM software which prevented it from being copied more than once, but would allow it to be moved around (so you could put it on your zip drive and bring it to your friend's house, and keep a backup copy at home. You could even let your friend borrow the zip drive, or move the file from the zip drive to HIS computer, but could not cop/paste it to his computer)?

To some degree... yes, as long as I could make backup I'd be happy, but I don't like DRMs as a general rule. if the books got good enough reviews from people I trusted then i'd probably buy them anyways.

[Raum]

That is going to be, in effect, what will happen. Built in restrictions on copy. Any copy of the original is unable to be copied, any original may only be copied once.Bypassing questions of whether or not this is truly implementable, this would mean there's a functional expiration date on the file...the time it takes me to go through two computers.

I do question how implementable it is though...it's fairly trivial to do a bit by bit copy.

However, for my purposes it doesn't really matter. If it's not a standard format I'm extremely unlikely to purchase it...needs to be readable on my Linux box as well as Windows.

[PnP Fan]

First let me say, best of luck! I know a lot of us have had thoughts about doing something like this over the years, but very few have ever taken the time to try it.

1) Numbers of dice don't make or break a game for me. But I've been gaming for 20 years, and I have a bucket o dice. Starting play shouldn't require more than a handful of easily available dice.

2) The best use for MAD is to keep a character class that would otherwise be very powerful from unbalancing the game. SAGA Jedi, for example, are severely MAD. Playable, but not any more powerful than any other character, because they are MAD. Most of the other SAGA classes are SAD or maybe TAD (Two). People will min max regardless.

3) I'm an engineer. Give me the opportunity to plan something with numbers, and I'm happy. Most of the folks I game with these days use point buy, or some variant on point buy.

4) Depends. In my high-fantasy games, I like archetypes (classes). In modern games I prefer classless games (GURPS) or class-lite (World of Darkness). For super heroes, point buy without classes or class-lite is the only way to go.

5) Again, this depends on how you structure your classes. Rigid class systems don't leave much room for characters that cross boundaries. Classless or class lite systems tend to make everything into skills, and you pick up the skills that fit your concept.

6) Depends. If you are putting together something that is not modern day, you're going to have to include some kind of setting material. Even D&D includes some minimal setting details (gods, for example) in order to make the game work. I think the further you intend to stray from generic medieval fantasy or generic sci-fi, the more you're going to have to include in the way of setting. From a marketing standpoint, however, if you are going to put a fantasy or sci-fi game out in the marketplace, you'd better have something interesting going on in it that makes it unique. Right now all you've got is cheap on your side, and that's not necessarily enough to make me even open the book. Never mind go to the trouble to try and convince folks to try it out.

7 & 8) mmm. .... the implication here is that I have to drag my laptop to the game session, and pass around my laptop for others to look at the rules. That has disaster and spilled drinks written all over it. Some of what you're asking also depends on the length of the rule book. I'm not going to print out a 300 page rulebook, for example. The cost in paper and ink is likely to be higher than buying the $40 rulebook that also has a hardcover and proper binding that comes with it. PDF files are nice for reviewing a document before you buy, or as a test run copy, but I'd much rather have a printed book in front of me. As far as other software, don't really want it, unless it's character creation software. I can roll dice myself, etc. . ..

[RS14]

1) Would requiring lots of dice (at least in mid and high level play) per roll make you less likely to play the game. If not, would you change that opinion if another method of generating a similar bell curve without requiring physical dice was presented with it?

That will be fine. I like dice.



2) Do you feel that the game mechanics should support Multiple Stat Dependency to minimize 'min/maxing'? If so, do you feel that the Multiple Stat Dependency should be relatively equal among the characters/classes, without a way to make a character dependent on only a single stat?
Yes at lower levels; it should be alleviated at higher levels. That gives a range of conditions under which to play. You start unable to do all things; you end being shiny and skilled and epic. Dependency should be approximately equal across classes.



3) Would having a 'point buy' type system for stat generation be something that would make the game more appealing, or would it detract from the game?
Point buy is an option best left up to individual groups. It's not hard to accommodate anyway; it's not messing with the fundamentals of the system. So yes, there is no reason not to include it as an option.



4) Would having broad, general classes representing general archetypes that can be further customized through character creation and development be a bonus, or would it be something that would make you less likely to play? If less likely, would you rather a 'classless' system (like GURPS) or would you prefer something with more rigid classes (like D&D)?
I would prefer general classes with gobs of options.



5) Would you be upset if there was no multiclassing/duo-classing? How about if the classes were flexible enough that you could eventually get at least proficient in nearly anything, if you really wanted to?
Without multiclassing, you need more options for characters. Don't include it unless it works decently. It will be sort of lame if you tell players they can multiclass, but it screws them over in many or all cases.



6) Would you like a rich, in-depth world pre-created (for example, releasing the Forgotten Realms world-book along with the Core rules), or would you prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics? If you would like the world pre-created, would you like it in a single, massive book, or would you like the Rulebook, then the Worldbook released simultaneously (likely with a 'package deal'), or would you like to get just the Rulebook out the door fastest, then release the Worldbook some six months to a year later?
There are gobs of systems. If I want rules, I go to FUDGE. A rich, in-depth, and unique world will help your product stand out.
I would like the Worldbook with the rest of the system. Also, you're likely to develop a better system for that world if they are developed in tandem than if you just tack the world onto a system you developed and can no longer change.


7) Would you be upset if the rulebook(s) only came in digital format, perhaps with software bundled to make it easier to use (such as dice generator, mapper, and other gaming software), if it meant the rulebook was MUCH less expensive (around $10.00 USD vs $40-$50 for a physical book)?
No, I would not mind. Particularly if you don't include an awesome world with your game, I'm not going to spend 40-50 USD on the book. Perhaps 10 USD. I don't care about software, though.
In particular this sounds like it will be an independent system that few people will hear about (no offense--it's just what happens to most RPGs, no matter how good they are). Most people won't spend 40 USD on such a system, particularly not on an impulse.



8) Would you be upset if the rulebook had some form of DRM software which prevented it from being copied more than once, but would allow it to be moved around (so you could put it on your zip drive and bring it to your friend's house, and keep a backup copy at home. You could even let your friend borrow the zip drive, or move the file from the zip drive to HIS computer, but could not cop/paste it to his computer)?
That would be a deal-breaker. I do not buy DRM restricted products. They're buggy, make backups difficult, and rarely work under Linux. Also, I fundamentally abhor conceding the sort of control such a scheme would demand.

[Satyr]

1) Would requiring lots of dice (at least in mid and high level play) per roll make you less likely to play the game. If not, would you change that opinion if another method of generating a similar bell curve without requiring physical dice was presented with it?

Bell Curves are fine. Generally speaking, if you use more than only a few dices, they should be of the same kind. A few dice of different type may work, a lot dice of the same types as wll, but let's face it: the most elegant solution is a few dice of the same type.


2) Do you feel that the game mechanics should support Multiple Stat Dependency to minimize 'min/maxing'? If so, do you feel that the Multiple Stat Dependency should be relatively equal among the characters/classes, without a way to make a character dependent on only a single stat?

Balance is a ninor issue and should never be as important as other factors of the game, like method acting or the simulation of the gaming world and its denizens. That said, the best solution is usually the most plausible one, and this imlies that more than one stat has an influence on what you do.


3) Would having a 'point buy' type system for stat generation be something that would make the game more appealing, or would it detract from the game?

There are no alternatives to point-buy system which can be compete in relevant questions of character creation like the adaptability of characters, fine adjustment of charactzers and adjustment of the campaign's power level. Seriously, apart from chumming up to an old school playing style, there is no alternative to a point buy or template system.


4) Would having broad, general classes representing general archetypes that can be further customized through character creation and development be a bonus, or would it be something that would make you less likely to play? If less likely, would you rather a 'classless' system (like GURPS) or would you prefer something with more rigid classes (like D&D)?

Class systems are fossils of gaming which can only be tolerated for reasons of tradition. Since ther is nothing a class system can do that a well-made classless system can't do equally or better, and there are plenty of ideas which a classless system can realise and which are completely out of reach of a class system, the latter is a clear sing of inferiority. So if you are not willing to criple your system beforehgand, you go classless.


5) Would you be upset if there was no multiclassing/duo-classing? How about if the classes were flexible enough that you could eventually get at least proficient in nearly anything, if you really wanted to?

See above. But if you implement a class system, make sure that it includes as many options as possible. Class systems are already a worse solution, but restrictive class systems are even worse.


6) Would you like a rich, in-depth world pre-created (for example, releasing the Forgotten Realms world-book along with the Core rules), or would you prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics? If you would like the world pre-created, would you like it in a single, massive book, or would you like the Rulebook, then the Worldbook released simultaneously (likely with a 'package deal'), or would you like to get just the Rulebook out the door fastest, then release the Worldbook some six months to a year later?

One book to bring it all together is probably the best solution, but remember that the setting is almost always more important than the rule,s if you are not creating a universal game system. It's more likely that the setting and its premise will be the most important selling point of your game. There are plenty of rule systems out there, and a few are actually good, but truly good settings are exceedingly rare.



7) Would you be upset if the rulebook(s) only came in digital format, perhaps with software bundled to make it easier to use (such as dice generator, mapper, and other gaming software), if it meant the rulebook was MUCH less expensive (around $10.00 USD vs $40-$50 for a physical book)?

Everybody can take a pdf and bring it to the printer, so I would prefer a pdf version.


8) Would you be upset if the rulebook had some form of DRM software which prevented it from being copied more than once, but would allow it to be moved around (so you could put it on your zip drive and bring it to your friend's house, and keep a backup copy at home. You could even let your friend borrow the zip drive, or move the file from the zip drive to HIS computer, but could not cop/paste it to his computer)?

Why would you do that kind of crap? DRM is usually just harassment and those who are willing to circumvent it are completely able to do so, especially with a book. Imposing crap like that is just annoying potential players.

[Dark_Scary]

It's an RPG designed primarily for Table-Top, but some consideration for playing online has been given. When you ask 'what type of game is it', what do you mean?

I mean that Exalted targets on audience, Werewolf another, 3.5 another, 4e another, ect. Who wants to play your game?

Would you call it heroic fantasy? High fantasy? epic fantasy (that's tolkien, where the story is epic and the characters aren't)? Saga of Gilgamesh, where the characters are so epic that the story supersedes epic and goes straight to crazy land?


I was actually thinking of requiring around 3 out of 6 on a consistent basis and the other three inconsistently but enough to either discourage min/maxing or be weaknesses the GM can exploit to bring the character down a peg or two if he becomes obnoxious. Specifically, there is no way to change which stat governs an action.

I would hate that. If you want people to have all six stats, just have one stats. Min maxxing is good. If you are a Fighter, you should be able to choose to be Strong and dumb, and be good at strong things, (which includes running and jumping and improved tripping) and just not do smart things. And you shouldn't be penalized for not being smart, because you aren't supposed to be smart. If you are a Bard you should be Charismatic and Dexterous and not be Strong or Smart, and you should not be punished for being dumb and weak, because you are supposed to be those things.

Min Maxxing is good. It makes characters different from each other. It makes them fit genre conventions by being good at what they should be good at, and bad at what they should be bad at. But the important thing is, they use what they are good at to make sure they never ever have to do the things they are bad at.


That's kind of my idea, also taking some inspiration from NWoD's Exalted type games where you have an archytype that is your 'class' (i.e. Dawn), which is probably where you are going to focus, but can also become proficient in other skills if you are willing to spend the character points on it.

That is a good archetype for many things, and I would not be adverse to playing such a system.

[Curmudgeon]

1) Lots of dice would make me less likely to play the game. It's tedious mechanically, and takes time that could be better spent in the fantasy game situation.

2) Balancing Stat Dependency among different types of characters is a good thing.

3) Point buy is better. Anyone who says differently wants the option to cheat.

4) There are benefits to both approaches. Doing everything from scratch has more flexibility, but requires more work. (GURPS has significant overhead before you can create any sort of character.) D&D classes are like being offered filet mignon with rosemary potatoes and asparagus with Hollandaise sauce. You might want different vegetables with your meat, but it's nice if somebody offers the option of a well-thought-out meal.

5) I would be upset if there was no multiclassing. If you have classes at all, that is.

6) I'd prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics. I don't want the mechanics to be locked into someone else's world view.

7) I wouldn't use digital-only game material. Playing at the table gets harder if there's a display screen between players.

8) DRM makes things break so they don't work properly. I wouldn't buy it.

[pingcode20]

1) Would requiring lots of dice (at least in mid and high level play) per roll make you less likely to play the game. If not, would you change that opinion if another method of generating a similar bell curve without requiring physical dice was presented with it?

I'm really not sure. DnD has a point of having a single d20 do a lot of the heavy lifting, but on the other hand White Wolf has a success system based on rolling handfuls of d10s. So long as the system is relatively streamlined in terms of die use (eg. d20 systems focussing on the d20 for most things, d6 systems the same with d6, etc.) it'll keep out confusion and make it easier to play. In a similar vein, try to establish trends and keep to them.

Every moment spent looking up rules for various circumstances is a moment spent in frustration, after all.


2) Do you feel that the game mechanics should support Multiple Stat Dependency to minimize 'min/maxing'? If so, do you feel that the Multiple Stat Dependency should be relatively equal among the characters/classes, without a way to make a character dependent on only a single stat?

Proper stat weighting goes a long way towards avoiding excessive min-maxing. Make it difficult to obviate the need for statistics - maybe tie more to stats and then use class stat dependencies to tip the balance in one way or another?


3) Would having a 'point buy' type system for stat generation be something that would make the game more appealing, or would it detract from the game?

This is one of those love or hate things. Depends on the statistical equilibrium for the base stats, really. Stat rolling is probably best left as a 'variant option' in most cases, for the people who enjoy that sort of thing.


4) Would having broad, general classes representing general archetypes that can be further customized through character creation and development be a bonus, or would it be something that would make you less likely to play? If less likely, would you rather a 'classless' system (like GURPS) or would you prefer something with more rigid classes (like D&D)?

Eh, pros and cons to either. I've personally had it with DnD Classes (Augh-head-hurty trying to combine classes to get what I want), but too much in the way of fiddly makes it Augh-head-hurty in the other direction. I like the nWoD 'class system', personally. Plenty of options, but with a framework that gives you some nice 'guidelines' to help you along.


5) Would you be upset if there was no multiclassing/duo-classing? How about if the classes were flexible enough that you could eventually get at least proficient in nearly anything, if you really wanted to?

Eh, flexible is never bad. I prefer Lego to Play-Dough, though. (Play-dough is infinitely flexible, but Lego's building blocks make it a lot easier to make what you want)


6) Would you like a rich, in-depth world pre-created (for example, releasing the Forgotten Realms world-book along with the Core rules), or would you prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics? If you would like the world pre-created, would you like it in a single, massive book, or would you like the Rulebook, then the Worldbook released simultaneously (likely with a 'package deal'), or would you like to get just the Rulebook out the door fastest, then release the Worldbook some six months to a year later?

Have you got a rich, in-depth world? Because if you have, write it down. The best systems have at least some world depth to work from. I mean, sure, it's dead weight to a fully fledged world builder and DM, but weaving a good tapestry will set minds swimming with ideas.


7) Would you be upset if the rulebook(s) only came in digital format, perhaps with software bundled to make it easier to use (such as dice generator, mapper, and other gaming software), if it meant the rulebook was MUCH less expensive (around $10.00 USD vs $40-$50 for a physical book)?

Call me old fashioned, but there's something I've always preferred about a good old book. Not that you shouldn't try to sell digital anyway - it's basically free for you, isn't it?


8) Would you be upset if the rulebook had some form of DRM software which prevented it from being copied more than once, but would allow it to be moved around (so you could put it on your zip drive and bring it to your friend's house, and keep a backup copy at home. You could even let your friend borrow the zip drive, or move the file from the zip drive to HIS computer, but could not cop/paste it to his computer)?

Really a bad idea. A lot of people have strong feelings on this sort of thing (I don't like it either), and all you'll do is drive off a bunch of potential customers for your trouble at best. At worst, you'll get painted as some kind of jackass by people against such intrusive DRM. Not worth the time, money, or effort - doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, if you get demonised, you get demonised.

Just protect the file or something, minor stuff everybody expects anyway.

[Malacode]

Point Buy is, in my opinion, less balanced that random rolling. While luck of the draw does come into it, the dice do tend towards an average. With Point Buy, an experienced player can make a relatively weak character stronger and an inexperienced player can screw a simple one up. (Like my first Sorc ever with 6 Con and 18 Dex. Yeah, that was intelligent of me.)

[Rasilak]

1) I like lots of dice, as long as it's D6es (since other types tend to be more expensive, and hard to come by - and i've got truckloads of them anyways from playing Shadowrun). Plus, the sound and feel of rolling a lot of dice is good. (And the other players know that something BIG is going to happen when one starts to gather a lot of dice.)

2) I don't like class based systems anyway, so most of this question doesn't apply to me. Otherwise I think that it's ok to be good in one thing by maxing a single attribute and fitting skills, but the character should end up very specialized (perhaps bordering on one-trick-pony) if you do so. But having one attribute that lets you be very good at a variety of tasks, while others are much less useful is not good IMO (like Dex and IQ are much more useful than Con and Str in GURPS).

3) I like point-buy more than dice-based systems. But there are good arguments for both, and you should include both if possible. Shadowrun (at least 3E) has a priority-based System, which is also nice, because it's much faster and more noob-friendly than most point-buy systems, but still gives the players a lot of control and is quite balanced.

4) As I said above, I don't like classes at all. But having some precreated sample-characters is a good thing if you need to get a new player in the team. Plus, they can act as a guideline to describe your character in one word, should the need arise. Also, done pretty well in Shadowrun.

5) IMHO the most flexible thing is not having classes at all. Besides being more customizable, it's probably also easier to balance than abundant multiclassing.

6) I think you should keep the mechanics separated from the basic rules, and only add some "homebrew-like" stuff in the world book. Also, the world book can come much later than the basic rules. Plus points if the world book does not contain any rules at all, and is easy to adapt to other systems.

7) I tend to get PDFs first, and buy the books if I like the system. You should probably do both, if feasible. Oherwise I'd prefer hardcopy. It would also be nice to have a free "light" version of the rules online (like GURPS), but that's your decision (might actually increase sales, since people may try your system, but would never have bought the book otherwise)

8) Absolutely, yes. I hate DRM like the plague, because it usually inconveniences the honest buyer, but the people who just get the 'cracked' version don't get disturbed by it anyway. Also, I like to send digital copies to friends if they need to create a character, and it would greatly piss me off if I had to buy multiple versions of the same book to be able to play.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Point Buy is, in my opinion, less balanced that random rolling. While luck of the draw does come into it, the dice do tend towards an average.

This is plainly untrue. It's simple math. Six or even ten results is such a small sample that the distribution is essentially random. You won't see dice rolls tend toward the average meaningfully unless you have hundreds of rolls. So between all the characters you ever roll, you'll see the results average out. In one character's stats? Nope. There's no magic there that will make sure you don't roll straight 18s. If you're only using one or two dice, the effect is that much stronger; with 1d10, the odds of getting 10 10 10 10 10 10 are the same as any other combination, whereas on 3d6 straight 18s are more unlikely than anything (except, of course, straight 3s).

[valadil]

1) Lots of dice are fun, but should be reserved for big dramatic rolls. If you do go with lots of dice, make sure they're of the same type. Spending time to roll and count dice is okay. Spending a ton of time to make sure you have the right assortment isn't.

2) I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be dump stats. Every stat should be worth taking, but you focus in one or two stats. Take a look at Star Wars d6 if you get a chance. IIRC you have 18 points to distribute over 6 stats. 3 points in each is a very valid character.

3) D&D is the only system I play that has rolled stats. Everything else is point buy and it works out just fine. If this is really a concern, make like WotC and include several options for stat generation.

4) I'm mixed on this one. You really have to decide what you're trying to accomplish with your game. Read up on GNS theory, even if you disagree with it. Basically what you need to decide is if you're making a game or making a system to model characters. If it's the latter, I'd avoid classes. If it's the former, classes or classless can work.

What I don't like about classless games is that you never level up. You might increase your sword skill or learn a new spell, but it's never on the same scale as D&D because it happens so gradually. I'd like to see a classless game where instead of getting 4 points a session, you get bigger bonuses all at once. In WoD terms, I'd ditch experience points and give players 1 attribute point, 10 skill points, and one discipline/sphere/whatever point after 3 or 4 sessions.

4) Would having broad, general classes representing general archetypes that can be further customized through character creation and development be a bonus, or would it be something that would make you less likely to play? If less likely, would you rather a 'classless' system (like GURPS) or would you prefer something with more rigid classes (like D&D)?

5) I wouldn't miss multiclassing, but some people would. What I enjoy about powergaming is stacking classes together and coming up with interesting combinations. You'd probably lose interest from the optimizing crowd if there were no multiclassing options.

6) I'd like the option of having a campaign setting available but I wouldn't necessarily use it. If I were you I'd start with just the mechanics and then add on a setting.

7) Nope. Digital is cool. For a random indy game that may not be any good I wouldn't mind spending 10 bucks but wouldn't spend 40-50 unless I'd already played the game and knew I liked it.

8) DRM upsets me greatly. I'd defeat your DRM scheme and then put the book on bittorrent out of spite. Okay, maybe not but I certainly wouldn't buy a copy.

Developing an RPG is hard. You should be happy if people play it at all. This is the sort of thing you shouldn't get into for making money. Expect it to be a labor of love and if you happen to get some money out of it, awesome, but that shouldn't be the expectation. I'm writing a system right now too and if it gets anywhere near being releasable, I'm going to put a pdf on a website for free. If people like it they can donate to my paypal account.

[Kurald Galain]

Oooh, interesting.

One note, though... given the plethora of freelance RPGs present on the internet, I would not count on getting this published or indeed making any money out of it. Systems don't sell - settings do.

1) Yes. Rolling lots of dice is annoying. Also, I fail to see how high level should require more dice than low level. I have no idea what you mean with "another method of generating a similar bell curve", please elaborate.

2) Okay, this presupposes the existence of both levels, and character classes. I am of the opinion that the best systems use neither of those. Nevertheless, I don't feel that minimizing min/maxing should be a priority, because it is an exercise in futility. If your players are jerks, your game is going to suck; the answer to this is not to create rules against that, but simply to find players that aren't jerks.

I am not quite sure what you mean by "multiple stat dependency"; do you mean that one skill should "key" off multiple stats (in which case my answer is a firm "no" because this encourages min/maxing at the cost of verisimilitude) or that you mean that each class should have a plausible use for most attributes (in which case my answer is a firm "yes" because this encourages different kinds of builds)

3) Absolutely. Rolling dice for stats became old and passe over twenty years ago.

4) I would strongly prefer a classless system. I do realize that this is a matter of opinion, though. For instance, 4E is popular for having rigid inflexible classes, whereas 3E is equally popular for having mix-and-match classes and encouraging multiclassing all over the place. In general, more flexibility allows for more different characters.

5) I would want some method for any class to pick up "out of class" abilities and not suck at them, and I also would want a way to trade off between power and flexibility (so you can be either uber at one thing and bad at another, or you can be decent but not uber at several).

6) tough question. Personally, I wouldn't care about a rich, in-depth world because I design my own worlds, with the sole exception for OWOD (and no, don't think you can match that). But that's just me. If you're asking for advice, then simply releasing game mechanics won't sell.

7) No. But beware of scope creep. Physical books are so last century.

8) Yes. DRM is a public relations disaster, don't fall for that trap. Small companies can't afford to treat their customers like thieves.

[Epinephrine]

1) I don't mind lots of dice on some rolls, but as a usual thing? 3-4 dice is plenty for most purposes, and for generating a bellcurve. Too much die rolling (especially summing them all up) would be annoying. White Wolf's d10 system wasn't too bad, as one didn't need to sum the dice, merely count how many exceeded the difficulty.

2) I don't like "class" based games as much, and prefer to see multiple abilities being used. My preference is for point-based (GURPS-style) games, though the plethora of d20 related materials makes it an easier option.

3) I much prefer point-buy.

4) I prefer GURPS to D&D; that said, a "braod class" then customised to suit is pretty good; it allows for vastly different sets of abilities, but still allows one to tailor the character.

5) Again, I prefer non-class based games. So multiclassing in a system like GURPS is really just being less focused. That's as it should be. I like a system in which one can successfully be the equivalent of a multiclassed character, and can actually be effective that way - though of lesser effectiveness in either role than an appropriately specialised character.

6) I used to do all my own campaign creation, but now that I'm older (job/house/wife/kids) I just don't have the time to do a lot of worldbuilding - so I'd like a worldbook.

7) No, I could try that setup, though I do like having a physical copy to look at. I'm looking at getting a cheap laptop for DMing/playing RPGs which would make the pdf version much less of a hassle.

8) DRM can be annoying. If it doesn't interfere with my usual use of the "book" I have no issue with it, but I swear that I'd bin the whole damn thing the first time I tried to bring it with me and it popped up a warning/didn't allow me to. Anything I can do with a book I should be able to do with the file; lend it to a friend, bring it with me whereever I go, etc. Since many people don't have computers that are portable, portability of the file is essential.

[Morty]

1) Would requiring lots of dice (at least in mid and high level play) per roll make you less likely to play the game. If not, would you change that opinion if another method of generating a similar bell curve without requiring physical dice was presented with it?

I prefer rolling less dice, as it makes everyone less likely to make a mistake.


2) Do you feel that the game mechanics should support Multiple Stat Dependency to minimize 'min/maxing'? If so, do you feel that the Multiple Stat Dependency should be relatively equal among the characters/classes, without a way to make a character dependent on only a single stat?

I think that a character ought to rely on at least two attributes for full effectiveness. Of course, it's a bit hard to answer, as it depends on how do the attributes look.


3) Would having a 'point buy' type system for stat generation be something that would make the game more appealing, or would it detract from the game?

Point buy and rolling aren't mutually exclusive, and I have no strong preference. Both have their plusses and minuses.


4) Would having broad, general classes representing general archetypes that can be further customized through character creation and development be a bonus, or would it be something that would make you less likely to play? If less likely, would you rather a 'classless' system (like GURPS) or would you prefer something with more rigid classes (like D&D)?

As much as it makes me an old-fashioned fossil, I'm fond of class-based systems. So classes are good, but they have to allow customization.


5) Would you be upset if there was no multiclassing/duo-classing? How about if the classes were flexible enough that you could eventually get at least proficient in nearly anything, if you really wanted to?

Again, not enough detail. Multiclassing might not be even needed if you introduce some other way to get out-of-class abilities. But either way, such an option must exist.


6) Would you like a rich, in-depth world pre-created (for example, releasing the Forgotten Realms world-book along with the Core rules), or would you prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics? If you would like the world pre-created, would you like it in a single, massive book, or would you like the Rulebook, then the Worldbook released simultaneously (likely with a 'package deal'), or would you like to get just the Rulebook out the door fastest, then release the Worldbook some six months to a year later?

Too strong ties to a certain setting aren't a good thing, but the system shouldn't exist in a vacuum. Then again, trying to make a setting that doesn't influence mechanics too strongly might end up in rules coming with a boring, bland setting like generic worlds for 3.x and 4ed D&D.


7) Would you be upset if the rulebook(s) only came in digital format, perhaps with software bundled to make it easier to use (such as dice generator, mapper, and other gaming software), if it meant the rulebook was MUCH less expensive (around $10.00 USD vs $40-$50 for a physical book)?

As much as I have a soft spot for good, old books, I'd buy PDFs if it allowed me to save money.


8) Would you be upset if the rulebook had some form of DRM software which prevented it from being copied more than once, but would allow it to be moved around (so you could put it on your zip drive and bring it to your friend's house, and keep a backup copy at home. You could even let your friend borrow the zip drive, or move the file from the zip drive to HIS computer, but could not cop/paste it to his computer)?

Preventing piracy is alright, but it kind of sucks if your computer crashes and the rulebook is lost forever because you couldn't have made a copy for safety.

[Douglas]

1) Would requiring lots of dice (at least in mid and high level play) per roll make you less likely to play the game. If not, would you change that opinion if another method of generating a similar bell curve without requiring physical dice was presented with it?
Lots of dice is fine with me. I kind of like Shadowrun 4th's way of doing it, with bonuses and penalties determining how many d6s you roll and the number of them showing 5 or 6 determines success or failure. Just don't make the mistake of SR 3 with modifying the target number for each die - the difference in probability from even a single point change in what you need on a die for it to count is far too great.


2) Do you feel that the game mechanics should support Multiple Stat Dependency to minimize 'min/maxing'? If so, do you feel that the Multiple Stat Dependency should be relatively equal among the characters/classes, without a way to make a character dependent on only a single stat?
MSD is good in moderation. Consistency is far more important, though. The number of stats that are important to a character should be nearly constant, and approximately how important they are should also be consistent.


3) Would having a 'point buy' type system for stat generation be something that would make the game more appealing, or would it detract from the game?
Make both point buy and random methods available.


4) Would having broad, general classes representing general archetypes that can be further customized through character creation and development be a bonus, or would it be something that would make you less likely to play? If less likely, would you rather a 'classless' system (like GURPS) or would you prefer something with more rigid classes (like D&D)?
The more specific classes are, the more of them you need. As long as you have enough different classes for the specificity, it's fine. Mix-and-match should be possible to a significant degree, but I don't care too much whether it's through multiclassing, a greater emphasis on feats, or some other mechanism.


5) Would you be upset if there was no multiclassing/duo-classing? How about if the classes were flexible enough that you could eventually get at least proficient in nearly anything, if you really wanted to?
The specific mechanic of multiclassing does not matter to me. What's important is the breadth of character archetypes possible and how balanced they are, not how that breadth is achieved.


6) Would you like a rich, in-depth world pre-created (for example, releasing the Forgotten Realms world-book along with the Core rules), or would you prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics? If you would like the world pre-created, would you like it in a single, massive book, or would you like the Rulebook, then the Worldbook released simultaneously (likely with a 'package deal'), or would you like to get just the Rulebook out the door fastest, then release the Worldbook some six months to a year later?
Pre-made campaign settings haven't really mattered much to me in the past.


7) Would you be upset if the rulebook(s) only came in digital format, perhaps with software bundled to make it easier to use (such as dice generator, mapper, and other gaming software), if it meant the rulebook was MUCH less expensive (around $10.00 USD vs $40-$50 for a physical book)?
No, but it would be best if both versions were available. Modern print-on-demand techniques should make this possible even for minor products that can't afford to have tons of unsold inventory sitting around.


8) Would you be upset if the rulebook had some form of DRM software which prevented it from being copied more than once, but would allow it to be moved around (so you could put it on your zip drive and bring it to your friend's house, and keep a backup copy at home. You could even let your friend borrow the zip drive, or move the file from the zip drive to HIS computer, but could not cop/paste it to his computer)?
Above all else, any DRM must not be intrusive or seriously inconvenience legitimate end users. Beyond that I don't care too much, but I will note that I strongly believe that DRM is fundamentally flawed in multiple ways. Many people do actually use piracy or borrowing to investigate and decide whether to buy something legally, though I don't have any statistics as to exactly how many, and anything popular enough to have high demand for it is very likely to have the DRM broken and a DRM-free version made available on common piracy channels - all it takes is one expert breaking it once.

[Ellisande]

Doubt if I'll read this thread, but I'll offer my opinions, at least on the ones I have strong thoughts on.



1) Would requiring lots of dice (at least in mid and high level play) per roll make you less likely to play the game. If not, would you change that opinion if another method of generating a similar bell curve without requiring physical dice was presented with it?

One of my best memories of gaming is when (using the d20 Babylon 5 system), my character emptied a clip of an automatic weapon, and rolled something akin to 30d20, the whole table looking on.

However, as a matter of course, it would make me less likely to use that system. When it's a special thing, an epic attack, it's exciting and fun to use large numbers of dice. When it's not, it's just extra math. I love having dice, a bit of randomness in the mechanics, but make it a quick roll. Don't make me spend five minutes adding up a simple event's roll-roll the dice and get moving.


3) Would having a 'point buy' type system for stat generation be something that would make the game more appealing, or would it detract from the game?

4) Would having broad, general classes representing general archetypes that can be further customized through character creation and development be a bonus, or would it be something that would make you less likely to play? If less likely, would you rather a 'classless' system (like GURPS) or would you prefer something with more rigid classes (like D&D)?

5) Would you be upset if there was no multiclassing/duo-classing? How about if the classes were flexible enough that you could eventually get at least proficient in nearly anything, if you really wanted to?

I prefer flexible systems, that permit whatever character I have in mind. I don't care if this is done by a point-system, a multiclass system, or a very flexible single-class system.


6) Would you like a rich, in-depth world pre-created (for example, releasing the Forgotten Realms world-book along with the Core rules), or would you prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics? If you would like the world pre-created, would you like it in a single, massive book, or would you like the Rulebook, then the Worldbook released simultaneously (likely with a 'package deal'), or would you like to get just the Rulebook out the door fastest, then release the Worldbook some six months to a year later?

"Rich, in-depth world"? Not to insult your world-making abilities (if you could make a world to satisfy me, I'd be DELIGHTED), but I have yet to see a published setting that I REALLY liked, or that I find believable, no matter how highly regarded. As such, I'd as soon see whatever effort the designer of a game put the effort into the rules, and let me worry about my setting.


7) Would you be upset if the rulebook(s) only came in digital format, perhaps with software bundled to make it easier to use (such as dice generator, mapper, and other gaming software), if it meant the rulebook was MUCH less expensive (around $10.00 USD vs $40-$50 for a physical book)?

I don't buy a lot of books these days, and most of them used. So a $10 purchase is a lot more likely than a $50 one. Still, I must admit that for a digital-only book, it'd take a lot of word-of-mouth support to convince me to buy a digital book.


8) Would you be upset if the rulebook had some form of DRM software which prevented it from being copied more than once, but would allow it to be moved around (so you could put it on your zip drive and bring it to your friend's house, and keep a backup copy at home. You could even let your friend borrow the zip drive, or move the file from the zip drive to HIS computer, but could not cop/paste it to his computer)?

Yes. This would be a deal breaker. I wouldn't buy it.

[eepop]

1) Lots of dice are not a problem usually. Lots of dice ROLLS are a problem.

I could handle a GURPS style system with 20d10 if need be, since its one roll and pretty quickly resolved (count everything over X number).

I system like some situations in D&D 3.5 really grates on me though:
---Roll miss chance roll (probably 1 or 2 dice) --- don't miss
---Roll 1d20 to hit --- critical threat
---Roll 1d20 to confirm crit --- just a normal hit
---Roll 1d12 for weapon damage
---Roll 1d6 for fire damage from flaming sword

Thats only 6ish dice, but its a lot more annoying than one huge roll of lots of dice. Multistep procedures are okay, but they need to be kept to a maximum of 3ish rolls.



2) MSD should be used to make every character WANT all stats. But the game should be built to not let them have everything that they want. People should feel combat and non-combat consequences for every stat they have low. But no so much that everyone is forced to take all 14s so they aren't gimped.


3) I prefer point buy systems.

4) I'm a bit schizophrenic on this I guess. I like the openness of classless-ness, but I like having defined roles in the group. My ideal set up would be for there to be a system in the DMG for building classes in a balanced way. So the root system would be effectively classless, but for every setting, the DM creates the classes that fit that setting, then the players choose from those classes.

So when the DM builds classes he might have 5 things to choose: Power Source, Combat package 1, Combat package 2, Utility Package 1, Utility package 2. Each of those things would have their own list of possibilities, and the DM can mix and match to provide a wide variety of classes.

Hopefully that made sense.

5) I generally dislike the similarities that eventually arise in a system where you can pick up everything that everyone else can do eventually.

6) Really depends on the game, but overall I prefer a separation when possible. That said, as a first time publishee, it might be easier to get the publisher to support you on one book rather than two. In that case, I would say to still keep them "separate" within the book, as in, maybe have your mechanics stuff, and then have a chapter or two devoted to a base setting, just enough setting to play with, and hopefully enough to make people want a full book on the subject.

Another option is to use those two chapters on setting specific mechanics, if any, and make all the flavor parts of the setting freely available online. This is best used as an option if you've got a setting that is so awesome it would make people say "Holy Crap, thats AWESOME! Now I have to buy the rules, because if they are half as good as this they will be well worth it!".

7) I don't mind per se, but being a physical book grants slightly more credibility to a product. A physical product is a greater leap for a publisher to take, and if they have taken it, it means they have some faith that your product will be good enough to make money. I guess I'd put it this way: I would probably have to have some people recommend your game to look into the pdf version, but if I saw the physical version in a store I would probably flip through it the first time I saw it.

8) I dislike DRM, but if the content is good enough it wouldn't hold me back.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Thank you everyone, I really do appreciate your answers. Making a game is neither a simple, nor an easy process, and the last thing I want to do is go through all the time and effort only to have alienated my entire market.

So far, here's what I have been getting (on average), let's see if my head is straight

On the topic of dice, most people don't, precisely, mind a whole handful of dice, assuming it is the same kind of dice, or you don't have to roll them often.

Die size for a given action is decided at character creation, and will almost never vary from there. Granted, different archetypes have different die sizes for different actions, but then you'd expect a fighter to be able to swing a sword better than a wizard. Also, you will NEVER 'mix' dice in any situation. So if you are rolling multiple dice, they will all be the same kind of dice.

The 'default' setting is Steampunk, with both Magic and Technology. Gunpowder weapons exist, but are both expensive and chancy things (poorly crafted firearms have a chance to explode, bad powder has a significant chance to fizzle). They are, however, very powerful. Steam technology also exists, although without the Bessemer Process for making molded steel, steam engines are rare. Consider the early Napoleonic era for a rough translation. Magic also definitely exists as well. While it may not necessarily be as unbalancingly powerful as magic in 3.5 (where full caster > everything else), it is also quite potent in skilled hands. Anyone who can find a willing teacher can learn some, but it takes dedication to truly master.

However, the masters of each tend to greatly distrust one another, therefore it is extremely difficult to learn, much less master, both.

This also lets GMs decide "Okay, no tech in this game, we're in an area of the world that is big on 'pro-magic' and 'anti-tech', and owning any tech will get you lynched, because I want to run a more fantasy game this time. In fact, you've never heard of 'technology', you just know that some things are evil". By that same token, they can also say "Okay, this game is going to be similar to a Shadowrun game, with very little magic, which is generally seen as either superstitious or evil" and run a more tech-heavy steampunk game.

On the subject of Multiple Stat Dependency, allow me to clarify a few things:

* There are six stats total. Each class will absolutely require one or two, then have a significant benefit from one or two, then have one or two that doesn't come up often, but might be a weakness that could be exploited if it was too low. An 'average' character is perfectly playable. Being a 'big, dumb Thog' character is perfectly playable. His skills might go up a bit slower if his intelligence is so low that he has trouble learning how to use it, but he'll be dishing out some fairly obnoxious damage in melee.

* There will never be a way for a different stat to govern the same action. For example, in D&D 3.5, Wisdom governs Will saves. However, there are feats which allow Will saves to be based off of other stats. That won't happen here.

*There is a 'hard cap' on stats. The driving force in the game are skills. Characters are heroic compared to NPC's, however a Character's true power lies not in his physical and mental abilities, but in how he applies them in a given situation. There is a mechanic for improving stats, but it is very expensive in terms of character points. In short, we're showcasing the characters skills, not how 'bad arse' they are.

On the Class vs Classless System front, we're pretty much split down the middle, with a general consensus that if I'm going to do Class-Based, then for goodness sakes at least keep them flexible enough so a player can make the character they want to.

Any character can learn any skill in the game. However, if it is not a primary or secondary skill for the archetype you are playing,the die size is smaller on skill checks related to that skill. There are also 16 archetypes in 4 categories, so you have a lot of 'hybrid' archetypes to allow you the flexibility to do what you want. I tried real hard to make sure there was 'tank', 'skillmonkey', 'healbot', and 'utility' in several different flavors, each with their own focus.

It is also rather difficult to create a true 'one-trick pony' due to the cost of skills increasing in point costs as you advance in skill. While it is by no means impossible, it probably won't be as effective outside it's one trick than any given character. For example, a person who wanted to be the best swordsman in the world can do that, eventually. He wouldn't be able to use an axe, or a spear, or a staff... and probably doesn't have too many points in anything that isn't 'kill people with a sword' or maybe 'don't get hit while hitting them with a sword', but damn, with that sword, he's the best in the world. Good luck being effective in anything other than in combat with your sword, but hey... that's the trade-off, right?

On the topic of worldbook + Mechanics book, I think the concensus here is that I should make the mechanics, with some flavor behind it. Then, later on, release a worldbook that takes the flavor and turns it into a full five-course banquet. I'll be giving examples in the book in the 'flavor world', which is but thinly sketched out, and gives an idea of the 'default setting' for the game.

Enough people have asked about the publish-on-demand that I should address this.

I despise, with a passion, 'vanity' publishing, or 'publish on demand'. They are in it to make themselves money. If you don't publish a lot of books, then they make their money with a higher percentage per book. This comes in the way of fees to the author and significantly hiking up the price tag on the other end as well. The 40-50 dollar price was if I could find a decent game publisher (like, for example, Victorious Press) and get them interested. Print-On-Demand would increase these by AT LEAST 25%.

Also, I may well simply toss my hands up at trying to make any money off of this, and set it up as an SRD, much like the d20 SRD website.

As a happy medium, how about a .pdf which is formatted specifically to be printed out and put in a three ring binder? Perhaps have a smaller 'travel version' which only has the rules pertinent to actually playing (thus, would not have character creation rules or 'flavor') which can be printed out, stapled, and folded in half as a booklet?

Due to overwhelming majority response, there will NOT be any form of DRM. I was just calculating how many hours I've spent on this project already, and how many more are left before it is publishable... and didn't want all that completely bypassed by some jerk and some upload site.

[Jerthanis]

1) Would requiring lots of dice (at least in mid and high level play) per roll make you less likely to play the game. If not, would you change that opinion if another method of generating a similar bell curve without requiring physical dice was presented with it?

I play Exalted, so no, lots of dice doesn't detract from a game. Keep it under 30 per roll, but other than that, no worries.



2) Do you feel that the game mechanics should support Multiple Stat Dependency to minimize 'min/maxing'? If so, do you feel that the Multiple Stat Dependency should be relatively equal among the characters/classes, without a way to make a character dependent on only a single stat?

Nothing you do will ever minimize min/maxing. It's an aspect that exists in the minds of the players of the game, not in the words in the rulebook. So no, Game Mechanics shouldn't support MAD to reduce Min/Maxing, but it maybe should support Multiple Attribute Dependency for other reasons.



3) Would having a 'point buy' type system for stat generation be something that would make the game more appealing, or would it detract from the game?

I started RPGs with D&D 2nd edition, and for a long time thought it was a virtue to be able to play the character the dice rolled for you, and thought it was hubris to try and dictate the type of character you'd enjoy playing instead. Now I think that's stupid, and point buy is infinitely better for almost every single reason.



4) Would having broad, general classes representing general archetypes that can be further customized through character creation and development be a bonus, or would it be something that would make you less likely to play? If less likely, would you rather a 'classless' system (like GURPS) or would you prefer something with more rigid classes (like D&D)?

Classless is always better in my opinion. If you must have classes, make them worth it. What I mean by this is you should make each class unique and interesting, and take it as far away from Broad, General, Archetypal as possible, because if you're going to take levels in "Skill User" or "Fighter", and then customize from there, why are you even making the sacrifice of having classes?



5) Would you be upset if there was no multiclassing/duo-classing? How about if the classes were flexible enough that you could eventually get at least proficient in nearly anything, if you really wanted to?

If there must be classes, then the game finds it important to differentiate mechanically between characters who choose them, and if it's important to do so, why compromise it with multiclassing? If the classes are flexible, this goes double.



6) Would you like a rich, in-depth world pre-created (for example, releasing the Forgotten Realms world-book along with the Core rules), or would you prefer it to 'keep it simple' and release just game mechanics? If you would like the world pre-created, would you like it in a single, massive book, or would you like the Rulebook, then the Worldbook released simultaneously (likely with a 'package deal'), or would you like to get just the Rulebook out the door fastest, then release the Worldbook some six months to a year later?


Release your worldbook along with your ruleset as one large book, unless you're going to charge Ptolus level prices for it. Make sure you edit the content so it isn't a Doorstopper, because people will need to bring these books to the game session.



7) Would you be upset if the rulebook(s) only came in digital format, perhaps with software bundled to make it easier to use (such as dice generator, mapper, and other gaming software), if it meant the rulebook was MUCH less expensive (around $10.00 USD vs $40-$50 for a physical book)?

I once paid 50 dollars for a physical copy of an otherwise free RPG product. I consider that to be one of the best RPG purchases I've made. So yes, I at least wouldn't be in your market if it were purely digital. However, I play exclusively in-person, and physical copies are necessary for that. Plenty of people play online, or with aide of laptops or tablet PCs at the game table, so it's still possible to do what you suggest.



8) Would you be upset if the rulebook had some form of DRM software which prevented it from being copied more than once, but would allow it to be moved around (so you could put it on your zip drive and bring it to your friend's house, and keep a backup copy at home. You could even let your friend borrow the zip drive, or move the file from the zip drive to HIS computer, but could not cop/paste it to his computer)?


Data is always a lot more temporal than physical-space copies. Data gets corrupted and viruses exist. Technology becomes out of date, connections change. If the product is strictly digital, and they get exactly two copies, that's a book that will "wear out" in probably 5 years or so. DRM is practically necessary though, for digital releases, and you propose more lenient restrictions than some I've seen. I'm not sure how a program could tell if it were being moved instead of being copied, because I'm reasonably sure data only "moves" by being copied, then erased in its original location... but I'm sure it's possible somehow.

[PnP Fan]

Enough people have asked about the publish-on-demand that I should address this.

I despise, with a passion, 'vanity' publishing, or 'publish on demand'. They are in it to make themselves money. If you don't publish a lot of books, then they make their money with a higher percentage per book. This comes in the way of fees to the author and significantly hiking up the price tag on the other end as well. The 40-50 dollar price was if I could find a decent game publisher (like, for example, Victorious Press) and get them interested. Print-On-Demand would increase these by AT LEAST 25%.


Um. .. . I hate to be the one to point this out, but there are very few people in the publishing business trying to give books away. They are all looking to make money (to feed their families, pay their writers, etc. . .) I think you are looking at vanity publishing in the wrong way. Vanity/self publishing is generally done because the product in question is a significant business risk to the publishing company. Often in the past, it's been because some clown who thinks he's brilliant wants his stuff published, even if it's been rejected by every publishing house in the country because it's garbage (hence the name 'vanity printing').

However, in the gaming industry, I've seen a number of nice games published in this fashion because they aren't necessarily things that everyone would appreciate. Perhaps they were in a peculiar genre, or were very low mechanics games. I can see a lot of publishers just not being sure they could market something like "Truth and Justice". So you take it to a print on demand service, ask them to take on some risk (less so than in decades previously. . .), and see how the game goes.

My point being: I wouldn't snub your nose at those publishers, they're taking a business risk:
--maintaining a somewhat secure server with your document,
--printing quality copies in small batches, which is probably more expensive than regular printing, btw
--and maintaining a staff at the ready to do this for you.
They are taking a significant amount of risk for your *untried* product. Even more so if they know that it's been rejected by other publishing houses that didn't know what to do with it.

Best of luck with your game. I have to say, what I've read about your idea sounds neat. I'd be willing to give it a try.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Um. .. . I hate to be the one to point this out, but there are very few people in the publishing business trying to give books away. They are all looking to make money (to feed their families, pay their writers, etc. . .) I think you are looking at vanity publishing in the wrong way. Vanity/self publishing is generally done because the product in question is a significant business risk to the publishing company. Often in the past, it's been because some clown who thinks he's brilliant wants his stuff published, even if it's been rejected by every publishing house in the country because it's garbage (hence the name 'vanity printing'). All publishers are in it for the money, yes. However, Vanity Publishers don't bother with volume, or have the contacts to do any marketing like normal publishers do. They simply sit on your book, and more importantly, the copyright (so you can't sell copies of your own book, they HAVE to go through the vanity publisher), and wait for someone to request it, then charge them an exorbitant fee to send it to them.

Yes, publishing with small volume is not cost effective, hence why they practically have to charge everyone (including the author) an arm and a leg. That doesn't mean I would want to do business with them.


However, in the gaming industry, I've seen a number of nice games published in this fashion because they aren't necessarily things that everyone would appreciate. Perhaps they were in a peculiar genre, or were very low mechanics games. I can see a lot of publishers just not being sure they could market something like "Truth and Justice". So you take it to a print on demand service, ask them to take on some risk (less so than in decades previously. . .), and see how the game goes.

My point being: I wouldn't snub your nose at those publishers, they're taking a business risk:
--maintaining a somewhat secure server with your document,
--printing quality copies in small batches, which is probably more expensive than regular printing, btw
--and maintaining a staff at the ready to do this for you.
They are taking a significant amount of risk for your *untried* product. Even more so if they know that it's been rejected by other publishing houses that didn't know what to do with it. No, they're not taking any kind of business risk. They're charging the author (that would be ME, in this case) something like a thousand bucks to publish the book(s). Then they cover costs + a higher profit margin than normal publishers settle for per book sold. There's no risk involved, because even if I don't sell a single book, they've still got my original fee.

One PDF file takes up a few megs in a database somewhere. Cost is negligible. Their staff simply prints whatever book orders came in that day. No staff are 'devoted' to my contract at any given time.

I've looked into it, I've done my research, I'd rather print them out at home with my ink jet printer, bind them with my own binders, and sell them at conventions. It would cost less. Significantly. To everyone involved.


Best of luck with your game. I have to say, what I've read about your idea sounds neat. I'd be willing to give it a try.

Thanks, I really appreciate that. Sometimes I feel like giving up because of all the work. Comments like that are why I still bother slogging through copyright laws and doing other research in addition to actually finishing off the game system.

[PnP Fan]

All publishers are in it for the money, yes. However, Vanity Publishers don't bother with volume, or have the contacts to do any marketing like normal publishers do. They simply sit on your book, and more importantly, the copyright (so you can't sell copies of your own book, they HAVE to go through the vanity publisher), and wait for someone to request it, then charge them an exorbitant fee to send it to them.

Yes, publishing with small volume is not cost effective, hence why they practically have to charge everyone (including the author) an arm and a leg. That doesn't mean I would want to do business with them.

No, they're not taking any kind of business risk. They're charging the author (that would be ME, in this case) something like a thousand bucks to publish the book(s). Then they cover costs + a higher profit margin than normal publishers settle for per book sold. There's no risk involved, because even if I don't sell a single book, they've still got my original fee.

One PDF file takes up a few megs in a database somewhere. Cost is negligible. Their staff simply prints whatever book orders came in that day. No staff are 'devoted' to my contract at any given time.

I've looked into it, I've done my research, I'd rather print them out at home with my ink jet printer, bind them with my own binders, and sell them at conventions. It would cost less. Significantly. To everyone involved.

Thanks, I really appreciate that. Sometimes I feel like giving up because of all the work. Comments like that are why I still bother slogging through copyright laws and doing other research in addition to actually finishing off the game system.

You make a lot of good points there, and I can see you've done your research, allow me to explain a little more the details of what I'm talking about. (not trying to argue, but I think some of my points aren't coming across very clearly. Yay internet! :-)

The business risk I'm talking about is a long term thing that isn't directly related to *your* product. Regardless of how many books they have in-house, they still have to pay the maintenance costs, they still have to pay someone to run the business (even if it's only a couple of people). *Even when no one is buying books from them.* Just because they don't make any sales in a month, doesn't mean that those costs go away. So, because a product is a potential risk, they pass that risk on to the author of said product, because they've got bills to pay no matter what happens to the product. It's sort of the literary equivalent of military developmental contracting (or any kind of R&D, really). The contracting company needs to get paid, because people need to eat, regardless of whether the developmental product is successful or not.

And I totally don't blame you for not wanting to do business with them. From the author's perspective, it sucks, unless you are wildly successful.

As for things like copyrights, well, I've not done any research on that, but my understanding is that only the more successful writers get to edit their contracts with the publishers enough to keep copyright to their own stuff. I'm not really sure about that though. I just know I've heard about authors often having to go into litigation to gain control of their early material.

[potatocubed]

Vanity publishing is not the same as print on demand (POD).

The key rule to remember is that a publisher pays you. No money should ever flow in the opposite direction.

POD places like Lulu do not take your money (or your copyright). They don't market the book for you either, no, but their profit margin comes in when customers buy printed copies of the book. Essentially, they change the business model from 'publisher pays printer, customers pay publisher' to 'customers pay publisher and printer at the same time'. Your book is more expensive (or you take a lower profit margin) but it removes a lot of risk.

Alternatively, there are several companies who will help out creators of RPGs without taking away their IP, copyrights, whatever. Some provide printing and marketing and distribution, some market only, some print only... there are loads. Google 'Flaming Cobra', 'Key20', or 'Indie Press Revolution' for starters.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Vanity publishing is not the same as print on demand (POD).

The key rule to remember is that a publisher pays you. No money should ever flow in the opposite direction.

POD places like Lulu do not take your money (or your copyright). They don't market the book for you either, no, but their profit margin comes in when customers buy printed copies of the book. Essentially, they change the business model from 'publisher pays printer, customers pay publisher' to 'customers pay publisher and printer at the same time'. Your book is more expensive (or you take a lower profit margin) but it removes a lot of risk.

Alternatively, there are several companies who will help out creators of RPGs without taking away their IP, copyrights, whatever. Some provide printing and marketing and distribution, some market only, some print only... there are loads. Google 'Flaming Cobra', 'Key20', or 'Indie Press Revolution' for starters.

I'll have to look into those... thanks