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View Full Version : Goliath Charger/Punter Build, advice?



MustacheFart
2009-05-19, 01:01 AM
Hey all,

I need some feedback on this build for an upcoming short campaign. I managed to get the DM to allow the Goliath race so, I came up with this melee build. It focuses on charging in then doing as much damage as possible and then punting them (if they're not dead) into walls, obstacles, or other enemies.

I looked up the Flaming Homer build and it's pretty sweet but I don't necessarily want a psychic build.

IMPORTANT DETAILS:

- Starting level is 7
- Starting gold is 19,000gp
- 28 point buy
- DM has stated I can start with +1 LA bought off!
- All books are open (I want to avoid maneuvers/stances/martial adept classes from ToB. I know they're good for melee builds but the group I play with isn't keen on them/doesn't understand them)
- I want to avoid Psionics. Pretty much for the same reason as above for ToB stuff.

BUILD:

Goliath Lion-Totem Barbarian 1 (Whirling Frenzy variant) / Fighter 6 (Dungeoncrasher variant)

Stats:
STR: 18 + 4 (Racial) + 1(lvl 4) = 23
DEX: 12 - 2 (Racial) = 10
CON: 14 + 2 (Racial) = 16
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 8

Feats:

Flaw #1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (MM4 Great Hammer)
Flaw #2: Power Attack
1st: Improved Bull Rush
Fighter 1: Knockback
3rd:
Fighter 4:
6th: Shock Trooper

Gear: +1 Keen Great Hammer (3d6* + str, 17-20/x4)

*I'm not sure what the price on permanencying an Enlarge Person spell on myself would be but I plan to get this done so, damage would go up to 4d6.

That's it so far. I still need 2 more feats. Maybe improved trip and extra rage? I'm going to see if I can get DM to let me take Leap Attack as a Fighter feat, otherwise I can't take it for 2 more levels.

Any help on this build would be great! I specifically need help on gear and feats. I can't go too overboard according to DM so, probably just improve my weapon and get some armor. In fact powering my weapon up as much as possible (including making it out of a special material) would be ideal as it would fit the character's back-story. As far as continuing the build I'll probably go into Warhulk or something for the sweeping attacks even though it eats up some BAB.

RTGoodman
2009-05-19, 01:17 AM
You're right about getting Improved Trip - whenever you make a trip attempt (which is basically every time you use Knockback and Shock Trooper's Domino Rush thingy), you'll ALSO get a free attack since you tripped the foe. (Improved Trip gives you the free attack whenever you "trip an opponent in melee combat," which is what you're doing.) Your DM may or may not ban that after he sees it, though.

Also, note that Improved Trip requires Combat Expertise, not Power Attack, and you'll have to lose some Con and Dex or some Str to get the necessary 13 Int.


Gear: +1 Keen Great Hammer (3d6* + str, 17-20/x4)

You can't get keen on a bludgeoning weapon. There's another enhancement for it, though, but I can't remember what it's called or if it's the same price.


*I'm not sure what the price on permanencying an Enlarge Person spell on myself would be but I plan to get this done so, damage would go up to 4d6.

Can't use enlarge person on you, per RAW. Goliaths are Monstrous Humanoids, which is a completely different type than Humanoid. You could ask about a homebrewed enlarge monster or enlarge monstrous person spell, though.



As far as continuing the build I'll probably go into Warhulk or something for the sweeping attacks even though it eats up some BAB.

Warhulk is cool, but I don't think you can enter it as a Goliath unless you're DM allows it. IIRC it requires you to be Large, which Goliaths are not. It's only in a few instances that Powerful Build qualifies them for Large-only feats, and those are called out specifically. If you get the enlarge spell thing to work, though, disregard.


EDIT: Also, doh! I totally forgotten about the Knock-Down feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown). It's great, too.


Knock-Down [General]

Prerequisites
Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15.
Benefit
Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target.

MustacheFart
2009-05-19, 02:20 AM
Also, note that Improved Trip requires Combat Expertise, not Power Attack, and you'll have to lose some Con and Dex or some Str to get the necessary 13 Int.

How would you allocate the stats for such?


You can't get keen on a bludgeoning weapon. There's another enhancement for it, though, but I can't remember what it's called or if it's the same price.

Ya, I just found it. It's called Impact from Magic Item Compendium. Sorry I had that in mind when I typed it.

Keld Denar
2009-05-19, 03:04 AM
If you can get into it, Suel Arcanamach is fun for a build like this. Partial casting at the cost of a single point of BAB and 2 half craptacular feats. If you get Iron Will from an Otyuth Hole and pick up Combat Casting from 2 levels in Duskblade (which also give you the skills you need to qualify for SA). You could go:

Goliath1 Iron Will (location)
Fighter1 Power Attack, Improved Bullrush
Fighter2 Dungeoncrashing
Duskblade1 Knockback
Duskblade2 Combat Casting
Hexblade1
Hexblade2 Combat Expertese
Suel1
Suel2
Suel3 Improved Trip
Suel4
AbjChamp1
AbjChamp2 Minor Shapeshift
AbjChamp3
AbjChamp4
AbjChamp5 Knockdown
Spellsword1
Any+3 Feat?

Use your SA spells to augement your offence and defense. Get a slashing weapon and Whirling Blade people from across the room into the walls, or get a bludgeoning weapon and get scary with Greater Mighty Wallop. Protect your butt with swift action +9 AC shields, and immediate action Greater Mirror Image. Hulk out with Bite of the Werewolf or Wearbear, or go all out with Draconic Polymorph.

MustacheFart
2009-05-19, 07:58 AM
If you can get into it, Suel Arcanamach is fun for a build like this. Partial casting at the cost of a single point of BAB and 2 half craptacular feats. If you get Iron Will from an Otyuth Hole and pick up Combat Casting from 2 levels in Duskblade (which also give you the skills you need to qualify for SA). You could go:

Goliath1 Iron Will (location)
Fighter1 Power Attack, Improved Bullrush
Fighter2 Dungeoncrashing
Duskblade1 Knockback
Duskblade2 Combat Casting
Hexblade1
Hexblade2 Combat Expertese
Suel1
Suel2
Suel3 Improved Trip
Suel4
AbjChamp1
AbjChamp2 Minor Shapeshift
AbjChamp3
AbjChamp4
AbjChamp5 Knockdown
Spellsword1
Any+3 Feat?

Use your SA spells to augement your offence and defense. Get a slashing weapon and Whirling Blade people from across the room into the walls, or get a bludgeoning weapon and get scary with Greater Mighty Wallop. Protect your butt with swift action +9 AC shields, and immediate action Greater Mirror Image. Hulk out with Bite of the Werewolf or Wearbear, or go all out with Draconic Polymorph.

Couple questions:

What's an Otyuth hole? I've seen this mentioned before but I couldn't find it anywhere.

Would this build be any good starting at level 7? That's where we are currently starting. I don't see this game going for that long either as its just a break from our main game (another player is DMing side stuff in main game's DM's Campaign World). They'll be 3 of us definitely: Myself, a Cleric, and a barbarian. The player for the latter is pretty new so I expect him to be a pretty straight-laced, nothing special barbarian. The DM wants a pretty melee focused group.

Faleldir
2009-05-19, 08:11 AM
Also, note that Improved Trip requires Combat Expertise, not Power Attack, and you'll have to lose some Con and Dex or some Str to get the necessary 13 Int.

If you join the Wolf Berserkers of Rashemen, you can take the Wolf Berserker feat, which lets you qualify for Improved Trip without Combat Expertise. It gives you a +4 unnamed bonus to trip attacks, it's a Fighter feat, and it's not a regional feat so you can take it at any time.

By the way, this is just my stupid opinion, but if it's possible to make a Minotaur greathammer adamantine, I'd spend my money on that before Keen.

Person_Man
2009-05-19, 10:08 AM
Flaming Homer, Bowling Ball of Doom!!! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4108954&postcount=22) (for those who haven't read it).

Suggestions:

Drop the Greathammer, use a reach weapon (probably a glaive, or a lance if you are outdoors, and thus mounted. Remember you can use it two handed). Even if you only get 1-2 extra attacks per combat from the AoO, the damage will still be more then the 2-3 extra points of damage per attack. Beg a caster to cast Enlarge Person on you (buy him a wand if necessary) or take Arcane Schooling, and your reach will be even more effective.

Keen is usually (but not always) a waste of time. If you really want me to go through the math, I will. But trust me when I tell you that there are much better options for this build. My Knight Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109429) has some pretty extensive options you might want to consider.

For feats, I would go Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Knockback, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, and Shock Trooper. With your damage output and Knockback, there's really no reason for Improved Trip. You don't need to lock down an enemy that's 20 feet away from you and dead. If you really really want to Trip them anyway, then Rampaging Bull Rush (free Trip whenever you Bull Rush) will be a superior mechanic for you. For your final feat, consider Arcane Schooling (replaces UMD for 1 class), Fearless Destiny (you don't die if you hit -10 hit points, once per day), Blind-Fight, or Tomb Tainted Soul (friends can dump Uttercold Fireballs into combat, and heal you!).

What ECL do you expect the game to go to?

MustacheFart
2009-05-19, 04:24 PM
Beg a caster to cast Enlarge Person on you (buy him a wand if necessary) or take Arcane Schooling, and your reach will be even more effective.

Someone already stated I can't have enlarge person casted on myself because Goliath's are Monstrous Humanoids. I bet I could get the DM to let me though.



What ECL do you expect the game to go to?

I'm not sure, I'd honestly be surprised if it went past ECL 10. Althought, we will be playing this game off and on between chapters in the main campaign so, it very well could go higher.

Also how would you allocate the attribute points using 28-point buy? If I went the route you suggested I'd obviously need more dex for all the AoOs, right?


As for Tomb-Tainted soul, I was thinking about it; however, other than the cleric we don't have a caster. I don't think the cleric is going to be making that much use of Negative Energy. Honestly, I was thinking Fearless Destiny for a last feat because I like the affect as well as it would fit the character well story-wise.

I like your suggestion to not take Imp. Trip. Your logic is exactly the same as mine. While nobody minds a possible extra attack, I just didn't think I needed it. Plus I'm going to be knocking people around like crazy so, I thought also tripping them would be bad enough BUT then following up with an attack, would be even worse (altough effective), not to mention, pretty cheesy. This is also why I didn't want to make use of the Spiked Chain cheese even though it would be more effective.

As for weapons, what would you recommend, including enhancements, that I spend my 19kgp on? For that matter, what all would be the gear you would spend your 19kgp on?


Thanks for help!