lsfreak
2009-05-19, 11:26 PM
Some problems with counterspelling, as I see them:
- In order to make counterspelling viable over the course of they day, you must either use a feat or fill up lots of slots with a spell that only has ~50% success against equal-level casters.
- Can only ready a spell against a specific opponent, not against any spell cast; counterspelling loses worth against multiple casters
- You lose your standard action. Why not just Stinking Cloud or ready a damage ray instead?
- A 3rd-level wizard can counter the fully metamagicked, 9th-level-slot scorching ray of an epic caster without any problems, and the epic-level caster can't do anything to stop it. While this in unlikely to come up, it is still a flaw.
Which leaves the best time to counterspell being a situation where you must ensure your party isn't hit with a save-or-x, and you know it's going to be cast. Here is what I've come up to replace standard counterspelling. I'd welcome any comments, especially about the possible problems I came up with.
Counterspelling:
Beginning a Counterspell
You can initiate a counterspell by readying an action (a standard action) to counter any single spell you wish before the beginning of your next turn. For each spell cast, you can choose to counter the spell or hold your counterspell attempt for another spell.
This fixes the problem of having to sit and watch while the second caster dominates the ubercharger because you picked the wrong guy to try and counter.
Resolving a Counterspell
Once you have initiated a counterspell attempt, you can make a Spellcraft check to identify a spell being cast (DC15 + the spell's level) as a free action. If the check succeeds, you may attempt to counter the spell. If you identify the spell, you may then cast one of your own spell to counter. This spell must be identical to, diametrically opposed with (as stated in the spell description), or of the same school as the spell to the countered, though a spell merely of the same school must be at least 1 spell level higher than the spell to be countered. After casting the spell, you and the opposing caster make opposed counterspell checks, with modifiers as follows:
{table=head]Spell-related effect|Modifier
Spell's DC*|+1 for every DC over 10
Caster level of the spell|+1 per level
Spell level adjustment from metamagic**|+1 per level
Counterspell is identical to opposed spell***|+10[/table]
*Or the save DC the spell would have, if it does not allow a save DC. When using a spell merely of the same school, subtract this bonus by 1.
**Not including any metamagic that only effects the components for casting the spell. Abilities or feats that reduce metamagic costs are not counted in this modifier. Spontaneous casters can apply metamagic to counterspells if expend the modified spell level. Heighten Spell is considered a DC increase and not a metamagic spell level adjustment.
***This effect applies only the counterspeller's roll. This also includes diametrically opposed spells, as stated in the spell's description.
This accomplishes four things: first, a caster always has a chance of fighting off a counterspell, though the counterspell is virtually guaranteed to work if it uses the same spell. Secondly, metamagic makes spells more difficult to counter. Thirdly, a low-level caster has a more difficult time countering a high-level caster's spells. Fourthly, a caster can use any spell of the school to counter, but it gives roughly the same odds of success as using dispel magic
Dispel Magic
Dispel magic can also be used to counterspell. You do not need to identify the spell to be countered, and dispel magic is treated as being being the same spell level as the opposed spell or its own level, whichever is higher. Dispel magic can only benefit from up to 10 caster levels for the opposed roll, while greater dispel magic benefits from up to 20 caster levels.
In addition, you can ready a dispel magic specifically for counterspelling. You cast the spell, which then remains in your mind for up to 10 minutes per caster level (maximum 100 minutes for dispel magic or 200 minutes for greater dispel magic). At any time during the duration, you may spend an immediate action in order to counter a spell with this casting of dispel magic. Once you ready this spell, it can only be used to counterspell, and cannot be used for targeted, area, or any other type of dispelling. The spell is lost if you do not use it to counter a spell within the duration, and it can dispelled as any other spell active on oneself. You may have one such readied spell at a time.
This allows casters to spontaneously dispel something that they really don't want cast, without chewing into the effectiveness of Reactive Counterspell, duelward, and similar effects, since countering with dispel magic fails roughly 50% of the time against an equal-level enemy
Caster level changes with dispel magic: Any class feature, feat, or other ability that grants a bonus on caster level checks when using dispel magic to counterspell instead grants the bonus on your opposed counterspelling roll.
Improved Counterspell [General] (replaced standard Improved Counterspell)
Your understanding of the connections between similar spells allows you to find critical points when countering
Benefits: When counterspelling, you may treat any spell of the same school as opposing spell as the same spell for the purposes of gaining the +10 bonus on your opposed roll. This spell must still be at least 1 spell level higher than the opposed spell in order to counter it.
Normal: Counterspelling with a spell of the same school does not allow you to apply the +10 identical spell bonus to your opposed roll.
Reactive Counterspell [General] (Replaces Reactive Counterspell from Magic of Faerun)
Your extensive training in counterspelling allows you to counter spells even when they catch you off guard
Prerequisites: Improved Initiative
Benefit: As an immediate action, you may attempt to counter an opponent's spell. If you do so, you may not take a standard action during your next turn, nor may you make a partial charge or any other actions that are only available when your actions are limited. In addition, you can hold an additional cast of dispel magic for spontaneously counterspelling.
Normal: You must ready an action to counter a spell. You can hold only one cast of dispel magic to spontaneously counterspell.
Weaken Spell [General]
Your knowledge of the intricacies of how spells are woven together allow you to pull apart critical threads, weakening them even if you fail to negate them entirely
Benefit: If you fail a counterspell attempt, the opposing spell's caster level and save DC are both reduced by 2.
Possible design concerns:
- Allowing any spell of the school by default makes counterspelling too easy.
- Opposed checks are too luck-based; a party-crippling spell can get through where before the counterspell was guarenteed
- Opposed check modifiers punish gishes, partial casters, and the like too much due to the inclusion of caster level.
- Does little to ease any burden on 4-level casters such as paladins and spellthieves, as well as prestige classes that grant alternate spellcasting.
- Opposed counterspell checks as presented are too complex.
- In order to make counterspelling viable over the course of they day, you must either use a feat or fill up lots of slots with a spell that only has ~50% success against equal-level casters.
- Can only ready a spell against a specific opponent, not against any spell cast; counterspelling loses worth against multiple casters
- You lose your standard action. Why not just Stinking Cloud or ready a damage ray instead?
- A 3rd-level wizard can counter the fully metamagicked, 9th-level-slot scorching ray of an epic caster without any problems, and the epic-level caster can't do anything to stop it. While this in unlikely to come up, it is still a flaw.
Which leaves the best time to counterspell being a situation where you must ensure your party isn't hit with a save-or-x, and you know it's going to be cast. Here is what I've come up to replace standard counterspelling. I'd welcome any comments, especially about the possible problems I came up with.
Counterspelling:
Beginning a Counterspell
You can initiate a counterspell by readying an action (a standard action) to counter any single spell you wish before the beginning of your next turn. For each spell cast, you can choose to counter the spell or hold your counterspell attempt for another spell.
This fixes the problem of having to sit and watch while the second caster dominates the ubercharger because you picked the wrong guy to try and counter.
Resolving a Counterspell
Once you have initiated a counterspell attempt, you can make a Spellcraft check to identify a spell being cast (DC15 + the spell's level) as a free action. If the check succeeds, you may attempt to counter the spell. If you identify the spell, you may then cast one of your own spell to counter. This spell must be identical to, diametrically opposed with (as stated in the spell description), or of the same school as the spell to the countered, though a spell merely of the same school must be at least 1 spell level higher than the spell to be countered. After casting the spell, you and the opposing caster make opposed counterspell checks, with modifiers as follows:
{table=head]Spell-related effect|Modifier
Spell's DC*|+1 for every DC over 10
Caster level of the spell|+1 per level
Spell level adjustment from metamagic**|+1 per level
Counterspell is identical to opposed spell***|+10[/table]
*Or the save DC the spell would have, if it does not allow a save DC. When using a spell merely of the same school, subtract this bonus by 1.
**Not including any metamagic that only effects the components for casting the spell. Abilities or feats that reduce metamagic costs are not counted in this modifier. Spontaneous casters can apply metamagic to counterspells if expend the modified spell level. Heighten Spell is considered a DC increase and not a metamagic spell level adjustment.
***This effect applies only the counterspeller's roll. This also includes diametrically opposed spells, as stated in the spell's description.
This accomplishes four things: first, a caster always has a chance of fighting off a counterspell, though the counterspell is virtually guaranteed to work if it uses the same spell. Secondly, metamagic makes spells more difficult to counter. Thirdly, a low-level caster has a more difficult time countering a high-level caster's spells. Fourthly, a caster can use any spell of the school to counter, but it gives roughly the same odds of success as using dispel magic
Dispel Magic
Dispel magic can also be used to counterspell. You do not need to identify the spell to be countered, and dispel magic is treated as being being the same spell level as the opposed spell or its own level, whichever is higher. Dispel magic can only benefit from up to 10 caster levels for the opposed roll, while greater dispel magic benefits from up to 20 caster levels.
In addition, you can ready a dispel magic specifically for counterspelling. You cast the spell, which then remains in your mind for up to 10 minutes per caster level (maximum 100 minutes for dispel magic or 200 minutes for greater dispel magic). At any time during the duration, you may spend an immediate action in order to counter a spell with this casting of dispel magic. Once you ready this spell, it can only be used to counterspell, and cannot be used for targeted, area, or any other type of dispelling. The spell is lost if you do not use it to counter a spell within the duration, and it can dispelled as any other spell active on oneself. You may have one such readied spell at a time.
This allows casters to spontaneously dispel something that they really don't want cast, without chewing into the effectiveness of Reactive Counterspell, duelward, and similar effects, since countering with dispel magic fails roughly 50% of the time against an equal-level enemy
Caster level changes with dispel magic: Any class feature, feat, or other ability that grants a bonus on caster level checks when using dispel magic to counterspell instead grants the bonus on your opposed counterspelling roll.
Improved Counterspell [General] (replaced standard Improved Counterspell)
Your understanding of the connections between similar spells allows you to find critical points when countering
Benefits: When counterspelling, you may treat any spell of the same school as opposing spell as the same spell for the purposes of gaining the +10 bonus on your opposed roll. This spell must still be at least 1 spell level higher than the opposed spell in order to counter it.
Normal: Counterspelling with a spell of the same school does not allow you to apply the +10 identical spell bonus to your opposed roll.
Reactive Counterspell [General] (Replaces Reactive Counterspell from Magic of Faerun)
Your extensive training in counterspelling allows you to counter spells even when they catch you off guard
Prerequisites: Improved Initiative
Benefit: As an immediate action, you may attempt to counter an opponent's spell. If you do so, you may not take a standard action during your next turn, nor may you make a partial charge or any other actions that are only available when your actions are limited. In addition, you can hold an additional cast of dispel magic for spontaneously counterspelling.
Normal: You must ready an action to counter a spell. You can hold only one cast of dispel magic to spontaneously counterspell.
Weaken Spell [General]
Your knowledge of the intricacies of how spells are woven together allow you to pull apart critical threads, weakening them even if you fail to negate them entirely
Benefit: If you fail a counterspell attempt, the opposing spell's caster level and save DC are both reduced by 2.
Possible design concerns:
- Allowing any spell of the school by default makes counterspelling too easy.
- Opposed checks are too luck-based; a party-crippling spell can get through where before the counterspell was guarenteed
- Opposed check modifiers punish gishes, partial casters, and the like too much due to the inclusion of caster level.
- Does little to ease any burden on 4-level casters such as paladins and spellthieves, as well as prestige classes that grant alternate spellcasting.
- Opposed counterspell checks as presented are too complex.