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Mystic Muse
2009-05-20, 03:39 AM
I'm talking ACTUAL uses in 4th edition. just reading the description I have absolutely no Idea what possible use it could have. a 5x5 foot hole wouldn't be enough to be an effective prison and I can't think of any other use except to carry items. give me a handy haversack or bag of holding any day over that.

Shademan
2009-05-20, 04:01 AM
well you see.... characters have certain urges. urges that hit them some six hours after their last meal...
it would me very messy if they were to put their excrement everywhere...

I think you see where I'm getting at

Yuki Akuma
2009-05-20, 04:08 AM
A portable hole is basically just for throwing stuff in and then carrying it around with you.

It's where you throw the dragon's horde, for instance.

Quietus
2009-05-20, 04:16 AM
And 5x5 is a perfect sized prison for someone you don't like.

Mystic Muse
2009-05-20, 04:20 AM
first person. only happens in extremely realistic D&D games if you're looking for realistic you should looks somewhere else

second. granted but a handy haversack is MUCH more useful.

third.:smallbiggrin: the only problem is I don't know how many people would FIT into a 5x5 foot prison. it's sadly inadequate for those pests like Kyuss. of course you could put Acerak in there.:smallamused:

Shademan
2009-05-20, 04:25 AM
you calling ME serious!?
... wow... that is the first time someone ever said that to me... feels strange to be the serious guy for once.

also: it was a joke. and a reference. you need to read Comissionedcomic

Mystic Muse
2009-05-20, 04:30 AM
thanks for the suggestion but I hardly ever read things suggested to me

also people on forums can't hear your tone of voice and I don't have the faith in humanity any more to assume somebody is joking when they say something like that.

Quietus
2009-05-20, 04:33 AM
third.:smallbiggrin: the only problem is I don't know how many people would FIT into a 5x5 foot prison. it's sadly inadequate for those pests like Kyuss. of course you could put Acerak in there.:smallamused:

You'd be amazed how many humans you can fit in a 5x5 space.


... Oh wait. You want them kept in one piece, don't you? I guess you could always fold them up...

Yuki Akuma
2009-05-20, 04:35 AM
Portable holes can carry more than handy haversacks. And you can carry more portable holes (they weigh as much as a handkerchief) than you can carry handy haversacks (they weigh five pounds).

The only thing a handy haversack has going for it is that you don't have to dive in and dig around for what you want. So you use the haversack to carry equipment and the hole to carry treasure with no actual use.

This is not a difficult concept.

Coidzor
2009-05-20, 04:35 AM
first person. only happens in extremely realistic D&D games if you're looking for realistic you should looks somewhere else

second. granted but a handy haversack is MUCH more useful.

third.:smallbiggrin: the only problem is I don't know how many people would FIT into a 5x5 foot prison. it's sadly inadequate for those pests like Kyuss. of course you could put Acerak in there.:smallamused:

Considering that you're adventurers and not adherents to the Geneva Accords... :smallamused: I'd say combining number 1 and 3 would be rather fun if tending towards chaotic evil. Though to be honest, anyone who gets captured by you that you need to stuff somewhere without air kinda deserves anything you could do to them....Don't know the specifics of 4e haversacks and portable holes, but last I knew of 'em, haversacks just didn't have the storage capacity to compete.

Shademan
2009-05-20, 04:37 AM
thanks for the suggestion but I hardly ever read things suggested to me

also people on forums can't hear your tone of voice and I don't have the faith in humanity any more to assume somebody is joking when they say something like that.

true dat.

would it be possible to throw a portable hole at a wall and climb trough it?

Coidzor
2009-05-20, 04:39 AM
true dat.

would it be possible to throw a portable hole at a wall and climb trough it?

Nope. They're basically opening into an extra or non dimensional space...

Though I always have wished for an object that acted like what you describe though...

As far as I know you need that magical paint set that makes whatever you paint with it become real...

Shademan
2009-05-20, 04:42 AM
or just a "wall-eraser" looks like a regular rubber but can be used to make holes in walls and floors!

Mystic Muse
2009-05-20, 04:47 AM
hehe the mischief I could cause with that.

I'm not saying the portable hole is entirely useless but it's definitely use impaired and doesn't seem to qualify for a 19th level item. maybe a heroic tier but not 19th.

Zanticor
2009-05-20, 05:42 AM
A portable hole should be a portable lair. Who care the DM-guide says its just 5x5x5? If you get something as cool as a extra planar pocket it's your DM's obligation to make it awesome. So just make it 20x20x40 and have put in stairs and an ancient library! Preferably with a tomb of a lich or vampire at the bottom. Or make it into a weapon chamber for the general with a bunch of golems waiting to jump out and attack the enemy. A 5x5x5 hole were you have to get into to get something out is no excuse to tear a hole in the space time continuum for.

Zanticor

shadzar
2009-05-20, 06:15 AM
ration storage. Never go hungry on the trail of adventure again!

You only need buy food and drink from the cheapest place you can find it and carry it around almost anywhere for any length of time!

Act now and get this nice pouch to carry your folded hole in for free!

Portable Hole = D&D version of Tupperware.

hewhosaysfish
2009-05-20, 06:35 AM
4e nerfed potable holes. Hard.


With a standard action, any creature adjacent to a portable hole
can pick it up, provided there are no creatures or objects inside it.Emphasis mine.

Also:

Though I always have wished for an object that acted like what you describe though...
I was once told the story of how a gamer I know used Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments to paint a door on a Wall of Force, in much the same manner as Wile E Coyote might. Apparently the DM wasn't sure if it was RAW legal but let it fly just because it was awesome and hilarious.

Ravens_cry
2009-05-20, 07:08 AM
4e nerfed potable holes. Hard.

Emphasis mine.


That takes all the fun away! You can't even create the catgirl killing mini-ecosystem.:smallfrown:

Lunawarrior0
2009-05-20, 07:39 AM
My understanding was that in 3.x, that it was as shadzar said, tupperware, but in 4th ed it is a loony tunes hole. If you put a portable hole on a castle wall that is 5 feet thick, then you can crawl through. That is the only thing that I can see that makes it a level 19 item.
But even if your DM takes it a different route, it is 5 feet deep, stick it on the ground, have one of the people with range jump in, and you have instant cover. which while it might not be a level 19 item, it is quite useful.

shadzar
2009-05-20, 08:14 AM
4th still allows you to place it on the ground, you jsut cannot pick it up or close it form the inside, so you would have your cover for being in a foxhole, but anyone could then pour stuff in the hole that could kill you and make for harder you to escape from it.

you just need a flat surface. I don't think they meant to say it must be glass like flat, but you couldn't make a rock disappear by placing it over a jagged spike like a stalaGmite*.

*G for ground, C for ceiling

BobVosh
2009-05-20, 08:32 AM
4th still allows you to place it on the ground, you jsut cannot pick it up or close it form the inside, so you would have your cover for being in a foxhole, but anyone could then pour stuff in the hole that could kill you and make for harder you to escape from it.

you just need a flat surface. I don't think they meant to say it must be glass like flat, but you couldn't make a rock disappear by placing it over a jagged spike like a stalaGmite*.

*G for ground, C for ceiling

stalagmite
stalactite

When the mites come up, the tights come down >.>


And wow, 4ed portable holes suck. Hard.
Is the magic tapestry with the castle in it still around?

Radar
2009-05-20, 08:57 AM
Climbing aid, if you have two of those - you can make yourself places for hands and legs, while you climb a glass wall or anything otherwise impossible to climb.

Portable hole as a cover isn't maybe that good, but why not use it in an old fashioned cartoon way: throw it in front of a charging oponent (hilarity ensues). :smallsmile:

Mystic Muse
2009-05-20, 02:25 PM
indeed it does. you just have to make sure your opponent isn't bigger than size category large and that you use it on a glass floor. like shooting fish in a barrel. or in this case stabbing enemies in a small hole.

Roderick_BR
2009-05-20, 03:47 PM
And 5x5 is a perfect sized prison for someone you don't like.
That made me lol.

Hmm.. put it on the floor, fill with Create Water. Instant pool (not really swimming pool, but enough to refresh yourself in a hot day).

Shpadoinkle
2009-05-20, 03:55 PM
You pretty much use it to carry all the stuff you want/need, but probably won't need in an emergency, like coins or food or that huge bulky set of +4 plate mail that, while valuable, isn't usable by anyone in the party (or everyone already has something better or whatever). They're kind of like external hard drives or Zip disks- they increase your carrying capacity.

NecroRebel
2009-05-20, 04:20 PM
Is there any reason why you couldn't have 2 or more portable holes, and then fold out the second one on the bottom of the first? Then, you jump down into the second hole, duck so your head is below the level of the top hole's... hole..., and then be in a 5-ft-wide, 5-ft-deep tomb below the earth.

Then you put the first portable hole on the group below you again and go another 5 feet down, and then retrieve the second hole, then repeat with it. 2 holes, thus, could presumably work as an arbitrarily-long tunnel that simply vanishes without a trace once you're through it.



...I'm totally gonna hand out a couple of Portable Holes in my epic campaign once my players are a few more levels up, and then let them do this. It'll be useful if/when they go to Hell and need to get down a layer or two.

shadzar
2009-05-20, 04:27 PM
The laws of hammerspace dealing with BoH and portable holes state you cannot put them inside each other without risking destruction of the fabric of the universe....IE destroying everything.

Extra-planar spaces cannot occupy the same space at the same time.

So you couldn't even take a bag of holding through a hole in a wall made by a portable hole without risking destroying everything as you know it. :smallwink:

NecroRebel
2009-05-20, 04:34 PM
The laws of hammerspace dealing with BoH and portable holes state you cannot put them inside each other without risking destruction of the fabric of the universe....IE destroying everything.

Extra-planar spaces cannot occupy the same space at the same time.

So you couldn't even take a bag of holding through a hole in a wall made by a portable hole without risking destroying everything as you know it. :smallwink:

4th edition thread; read the original post. Portable Holes do not create hammerspace in 4th edition, and even if they did, there is no "hammerspace+hammerspace=BOOM" clause in 4th edition anyway.

...Which is why a lot of people are suggesting things that aren't actually possible with Portable Holes, but oh well.

shadzar
2009-05-20, 04:50 PM
4th edition thread; read the original post. Portable Holes do not create hammerspace in 4th edition, and even if they did, there is no "hammerspace+hammerspace=BOOM" clause in 4th edition anyway.

...Which is why a lot of people are suggesting things that aren't actually possible with Portable Holes, but oh well.

:smallconfused: I thought it WAS still true in 4th edition. :redface:

Now I need to find where to read portable holes on 4th. AV or PHB?

NecroRebel
2009-05-20, 04:56 PM
:smallconfused: I thought it WAS still true in 4th edition. :redface:

Now I need to find where to read portable holes on 4th. AV or PHB?

PHB, page 254. The exact text of the power is in the spoiler.Power (At-Will): Standard Action. Place a portable hole on
a wall, a floor, or a ceiling. (The surface must be flat for
the item to function.) The portable hole instantly creates
a 5-foot-wide, 5-foot-deep hole in that surface. With a
standard action, any creature adjacent to a portable hole
can pick it up, provided there are no creatures or objects
inside it.

Bags of Holding and Handy Haversacks are also in there, on the page before it and the same page, respectively. No hammerspace explosion clauses in any of them. You could store your Handy Haversacks in your Bag of Holding if you wanted.

Asheram
2009-05-20, 06:32 PM
[ A portable hole is one of the most useful items there is for.. say... smuggling in people into the castle, carrying them in your pocket.

Put the hole behind a tapestry and then climb inside it.

A great trick is to put it under a cart or something, or on a thin sheet of metal and then tying the metal to a broomstick. "What's the DC to hit that, I wonder?"

herrhauptmann
2009-05-20, 06:41 PM
You pretty much use it to carry all the stuff you want/need, but probably won't need in an emergency, like coins or food or that huge bulky set of +4 plate mail that, while valuable, isn't usable by anyone in the party (or everyone already has something better or whatever). They're kind of like external hard drives or Zip disks- they increase your carrying capacity.

You can't pick it up if there's something/someone inside. Scroll up to 'hewhosaysfish's post.

Mystic Muse
2009-05-20, 09:13 PM
what herrhaptmaun said.

this limits its uses to stupid looney toon like gimmicks. so a 19th level item? hecks no. it's more of a joke than a helm of pie shape. (yes I'm actually going to have that in my campaign along with the belt of gender changing which will be an actually serious and useful item.:smallbiggrin:)

Chineselegolas
2009-05-20, 11:03 PM
Overcoming locked doors. Slide it underneath half way, activate.
Climb into hole, climb out of hole other side of the door.

herrhauptmann
2009-05-20, 11:12 PM
Overcoming locked doors. Slide it underneath half way, activate.
Climb into hole, climb out of hole other side of the door.

Now THAT is a good idea.

BobVosh
2009-05-21, 12:04 AM
Couldn't you accomplish the same thing by putting it on said door?

Juggernaut1981
2009-05-21, 12:53 AM
Nope... Portable Hole is not "Portable Opening in other object" it is "Portable cavity with a bottom"... Think of it closer to "Portable Pot-hole" or "Portable thing which stops me being charged along the ground..."

However, the Super Pigments of Cartoony Goodness... those allowed you to do whatever you wanted... Bard + Pigments + [Skill the DM says makes you Picasso/Rembrandt (Craft/Profession/Perform...)] = COMEDY CENTRAL...

4E Portable Holes sound crap for doing anything other than:
- Getting under fences
- Getting under doors
- Stopping yourself getting charged by humanoids
- Bathing
- Keeping the odd tied up hostage in the right place

This confirms my current belief on 4E... 4E = Epic Fail.

Randel
2009-05-21, 01:00 AM
Actually, 4th edition Portable Holes are not storage spaces. They are actual holes that are... portable.

Find a locked Adamantine door? If its less than five feet thick you can spend a standard action to slap a portable hole on it, have the party walk though, and then pick the hole up on the other side.

Got lost in a maze? Slap the hole onto the wall, if its less then five feet thick you can just walk right through.

Want to loot somebodys house? Unless his walls are over five feet thick your handy hole can let you in. Just grab whatever you want and walk out again.

Did you kill somebody and now have to hide the body? Put the portable hole on the ground, then get a shovel and dig away at the bottom of your 'portable' hole until you have a space to stash the corpse. Then get out and remove the portable hole. Your murder victim is now buried without any visible scarring on the ground. Doesn't matter if you buried them under grass or marble.

Want to sink somebodies ship really fast? Slap a portable hole onto their hull. Then remove it at your leisure.

Are you fighting some kind of weird monster whos body has flat surfaces on it but isn't a gelatinous cube? Slap a portable hole on it and watch its internal organs spill out!

Want to hide your treasure or create a secret room to put stuff in? Use the portable hole to create an entrance, then dig out the room. Now you have a storage space that you need a portable hole to get into (unless you dig through five feet to get to it.) Enemy rogues now have a hard time finding a secret door to your stash since the 'door' is inside your pocket!

Randel
2009-05-21, 01:18 AM
Oh, if the portable hole is actually just some kind of lame extradimentional space thing that needs a flat surface to work... then you can forget the stuff I said.


Possible ideas:

Tardis Frisbee
1. get a circular disk made of metal or wood to put the portable hole.
2. have somebody get inside
3. have a really strong guy pick up the disk and throw it like a frisbee
4. ???
5. awesome short-range ride (possible dizziness may result)


Flat Can of Evil
1. get metal plate
2. put portable hole on one side
3. stuff immortal bad guy into the hole.
4. Flip plate upside down
5. Bolt plate to the ground
6. ???
7. Now as long as he doesn't dig his way out, he stuck in an extra dimensional space that will collapse into nothingness if he tries to break out.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-21, 01:19 AM
Okay, talk about changing things that don't need to be changed. Besides those who think it's hammerspace(which is a not invalid assumption based on the power), the lack of definition on whether it is an Acme-hole or a portable pit seems to endorse the idea that it should have been just left hammerspace.

Mystic Muse
2009-05-21, 01:45 AM
it's just a portable pit and people have still come up with a lack of reasons why a portable pit would be a 19th level item. getting past fences and doors I'll concede but I don't think that makes it qualify as a 19th level item.

should've just been a superior dimensional space item where you can stuff the baddies.

Juggernaut1981
2009-05-21, 01:53 AM
Tardis Frisbee
1. get a circular disk made of metal or wood to put the portable hole.
2. have somebody get inside
3. have a really strong guy pick up the disk and throw it like a frisbee
4. ???
5. awesome short-range ride (possible dizziness may result)


Comedy Gold. 1 Halfling + 1 Catapult + One wooden disk/square + Portable Hole = Medium distance messenger service... Tell the halfling the message, put the hole on the wood panel, load it into the Catapult and tell the halfling to hang on. Halfling repeats message, gets new one, repeat until negotiations are complete. Give Halfling air-sickness tablets.



Flat Can of Evil
1. get metal plate
2. put portable hole on one side
3. stuff immortal bad guy into the hole.
4. Flip plate upside down
5. Bolt plate to the ground
6. ???
7. Now as long as he doesn't dig his way out, he stuck in an extra dimensional space that will collapse into nothingness if he tries to break out.

Missing step 5b: create Wall of Force underneath floor/ground.
Dispel Magic on Portable Hole = stepping on the Can


Need I repeat... 4E = Epic Fail

Mystic Muse
2009-05-21, 02:29 AM
actually I prefer 4th to 3.5 so far.

and they did ruin a few things Orb of annihilation for instance. WHY OH WHY DID YOU DO THAT WOTC?:smallsigh::smallfurious:

Shpadoinkle
2009-05-21, 06:01 AM
You can't pick it up if there's something/someone inside. Scroll up to 'hewhosaysfish's post.

Oh...

Well that's extraoridinarily stupid.

Just another reason to dislike 4e, then, I guess.

TheCountAlucard
2009-05-21, 06:48 AM
...meaning you've got a 19th-level magic item that can be defeated by flicking a mote of dust into it.

Good job, WotC. :smallannoyed:

Roderick_BR
2009-05-21, 08:39 AM
Nope... Portable Hole is not "Portable Opening in other object"(...)
I thought that was how it was supposed to work. I even heard stories like "I turn the portable hole outside out and wrap it around me, so I can freely walk through walls".
But then again, I remember that from AD&D. I didn't really read it up on 3.x

Yuki Akuma
2009-05-21, 08:49 AM
I thought that was how it was supposed to work. I even heard stories like "I turn the portable hole outside out and wrap it around me, so I can freely walk through walls".
But then again, I remember that from AD&D. I didn't really read it up on 3.x

No no, that's what you do with bags of holding.

This is specifically the reason they put the "the bag deactivates when turned inside-out" clause in third edition.

Rapidwhirl
2009-05-21, 06:43 PM
Will putting a second portable hole inside a portable hole make it a 5x5x10 hole? :confused:

Zergrusheddie
2009-05-21, 07:06 PM
5x5 is actually big enough to put someone for a little while, though they will not be happy. Ever taken a road trip with your friends/family and you were the youngest/drew the short straw so you got to sit in the back with all the luggage? Hell, after a while a portable hole would be an upgrade.

Considering it is so light, I can see loads of different uses for it:

1. A pit trap. Open it up on a floor and wait for the bad guys to fall into it.

2. Grapple attacks. Go grapple the enemy wizard and throw that over his head. He can't see and is stuck.

3. A hiding place. You just got the attention of the town guards and you need a place to hide? Throw down the hole, cover it with some <insert common item here>, jump in, and crouch.

4. Carrying stuff is obviously a useful aspect.

5. A shield against arrows or other missiles. Pin it to your shirt and you just received massive cover.

6. Sneaking your friends into an area. 5x5 can hold 3, maybe 4 highly cramped people. Have them jump in and the rogue can sneak them into the castle to meet with/kill the king.

7. Stealing items without drawing much suspicion. When the rogue gets stopped after the dinner party, the first place the guards are going to check for the missing silverware are the bags. How many guards are going to open up someone's snotrag looking for the swag?

8. A prison. Remember that you don't need to keep the prisoner in there 24/7 and he doesn't have to be completely happy.

9. Aerial attacks! Imagine climbing on top of a roof/ceiling and opening up the hole over someones head. Now imagine how annoyed they would be if a 100 pound ball fell of them or a 5 cubic feet of water? Practical jokes just got a little more epic.

10. Sneak Attacks. Take a full round bow attack against someone and than shift 5 into the hole. It can also be useful for getting cover bonuses while shooting with just your head revealed.

11. It's a Portable Hole; use your imagination!

TheCountAlucard
2009-05-21, 07:18 PM
2. Grapple attacks. Go grapple the enemy wizard and throw that over his head. He can't see and is stuck.Not an option in 4th edition.

4. Carrying stuff is obviously a useful aspect.This one isn't, either.

5. A shield against arrows or other missiles. Pin it to your shirt and you just received massive cover.Not in 4e.

6. Sneaking your friends into an area. 5x5 can hold 3, maybe 4 highly cramped people. Have them jump in and the rogue can sneak them into the castle to meet with/kill the king.Again, not in 4e D&D.

7. Stealing items without drawing much suspicion. When the rogue gets stopped after the dinner party, the first place the guards are going to check for the missing silverware are the bags. How many guards are going to open up someone's snotrag looking for the swag?Not a bad use of it in 3.x, but it can't be done in 4e.

11. It's a Portable Hole; use your imagination!Imagination? I think they removed the rules for that... :smalltongue:

Juggernaut1981
2009-05-21, 08:10 PM
@Zergrusheddie
#2 Wizards aren't flat objects... FAIL
#4 You can't carry the hole if it has 1cp sitting in the bottom... FAIL
#5 You stick it on the shield, one arrow goes in and you can't move the shield or the hole... FAIL
#6 (See #4)
#7 (See #4)
#9 (See #4 as to why you can't have the boulder in there before you put it on the roof)
#10 Only if you are a halfling and shorter than 5ft. Although the pit in the floor might be good for someone to throw explosive potions into...

#11 4E doesn't have a rule to handle that... Those were removed between 3.x and 4E...

2E portable hole = you make a hole in wall, walk through and then take the hole away leaving a wall behind... Keep away from Bags of Holding... BAAAAD mojo

3.x portable hole = a pit you can take with you everywhere and stash stuff in, but don't play with them and bags of holding... BAAAAAD mojo...

4E portable hole = item of epic power screwed over by 1 ant, 1 cp or a pebble... epic item of FAIL...

Conclusions...
4E = EPIC FAIL. (PnP WoW... WoW for da Old-School RPGers)

3.x = EPIC SCREWUP OF DODGEY POWERCREEP (otherwise known as "we have no idea what we want to do so we'll build half a system and mess around with it until it's useless and unworkable and release another version... oooh WoW is making buckets of money, we'll copy that)