MTG: D20 Spells

[EENick]

This is the thread to work spells for the d20 MTG system being worked on in this thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111633).

I'll update this first post with spells as they're finalized.

Here is the class as it stands right now



Walkers
Game Rule Information
Walkers have the following game statistics
Abilities
Charisma is key to walker’s abilities.
Alingment
Any

HD: d4
Walker
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Mana Focus. Plus one colored mana.

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3| Plus one colored mana.

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3| Plus one colored mana.

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4| Plus one colored mana,

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4| Plus one colored mana, Instant 2.

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5| Plus one colored mana.

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5| Plus one colored mana.

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6| Plus one colored mana.

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6| Plus one colored mana.

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7| Plus one colored mana, Instant 3.

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7| Plus one colored mana.

12th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8| Plus one colored mana.

13th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8| Plus one colored mana.

14th|
+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+9| Plus one colored mana.

15th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+9| Plus one colored mana, Instant 4.

16th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10| Plus one colored mana.

17th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10| Plus one colored mana.

18th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11| Plus one colored mana.

19th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11| Plus one colored mana.

20th|
+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12| Plus one colored mana, Plane Shift once per day. [/table]

spells
{table=head]Level| 1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9

1st|2|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0

2nd|3|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0

3rd|3|1|0|0|0|0|0|0|0

4th|4|2|0|0|0|0|0|0|0

5th|4|3|1|0|0|0|0|0|0

6th|4|4|2|0|0|0|0|0|0

7th|4|4|2|1|0|0|0|0|0

8th|5|4|3|2|0|0|0|0|0

9th|5|5|3|2|1|0|0|0|0

10th|5|5|3|3|2|0|0|0|0

11th|5|5|4|3|2|1|0|0|0

12th|5|5|5|3|3|2|0|0|0

13th|5|5|5|4|3|2|1|0|0

14th|5|5|5|5|3|3|2|0|0

15th|5|5|5|5|4|3|2|1|0


16th|5|5|5|5|5|3|3|2|0

17th|5|5|5|5|5|4|3|2|1

18th|5|5|5|5|5|5|3|3|2

19th|5|5|5|5|5|5|4|3|3

20th|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|4|4 [/table]

Class Skills: A Walkrs's class skills (an the key ability of each skill) are: Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge: (All Skills taken individually), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifer) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Weapon and Armor Profiency: Walkers are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a walkers’s movements, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.

Spells: A walker casts mana spells which are drawn from the walker spell list. A walker must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time (see below) but must also use his or her mana to pay for them at the time of casting.
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the walker must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a walker’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the walker’s Intelligence modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a walker can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on the attached table.

Unlike a bard or sorcerer, a walker may know any number of spells. She must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting a good night’s sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spelldeck. While studying, the walker decides which spells to prepare.

Spelldeck: A wizard must study her spelldeck, which is made up of Great Tarot like cards each representing a single spell, each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell she does not have a card for.
A walker begins play with a spellcards for three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the walker has, the spelldeck holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new walker level, she gains two new spell cards of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new walker level) for her spelldeck. At any time, a walker can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellcards to her own deck.

Mana: Mana is the energy drawn from the universe which a walker uses to cast their spells. A walker starts each turn with an amount of colored mana equal to their walker level plus one colorless mana for each plus to their intelligence modifier. In order to cast a spell or activate a mana based ability a walker must spend the correct amount of mana to do so.

Mana Focus (Ex)
Walker Picks a color of mana to gain access to. They may choose from White, Green, Red and Blue.
Walkers may pick a color of mana to align with. While later colors can be gained with feats regardless of alignment this first color must correspond to the casters alignment. It is considered the players primary color.
White – Any Non-Evil
Red – Any Non-Lawful
Green – Any Neutral
Blue – Any Non-Chaotic
Black – Any Non-Good

Colored Mana
At the start of each round a players gains an amount of mana according to their level. The color of the mana for each instance of this ability is chosen at the time the player levels up. Any color the player has access to maybe chosen at that time.

Instant
Instant allows a wizard to cast more than one spell on their turn. Additional spells may only be up to ½ the maximum casting level of the first rounding down. So if a player can cast up to level 9 spells for their first spell there second can only be up to level 4, there third level 2 and their fourth level 1 and if a players first spells is up to level 6 their second is up to level 3 and their third is up to level 1.

1st Level Spells (Untested)

White
Healing Salve
Color: White
Level: Walker 1
Mana: W
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
You channel healing power into your target, healing him for 1d6 hit points

Green
Giant Growth
Color: Green
Level: Walker 1
Mana: G
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (50 Feet)
Duration: 1 Round
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
One willing target creature increases two size levels for one round.

Wild Growth
Color: Green
Level: Walker 1
Mana: G
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Area of Effect: 10 foor radius
Duration: Perminent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:

You channel the power of the wild, causing plantlife in the form of grass, flowers and furns, to rapidly spring up in a ten foot radius around you. The plants do not hinder your ability to act. While standing in the midst of these plants you gain one additional green mana each turn. The plants are otherwise normal plants and will wither over time if not cared for or planted in a place which can support them. So long as the plants are healthy the magical effect presists.

Red
Blaze
Color: Red
Level: Walker 1
Mana: XR
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium 200 feet (+10 feet per mana spent on X)
Duration: Instant
Target: One Creature
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance:Yes

Effect:
The caster of this spell sends a stream of burning fire towards his or her target. The flames do 1d4 fire damage with a reflex save for half damage. You may not spend more mana on this spell then your current caster level.

Brute Force

Color: Red
Level: Walker 1
Mana: R
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close 50 feet
Target: One Creature
Duration: 1 turn
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
The spell fills the enspelled creature with sudden and unspeakable ferocity granting them a +3 AC bonus and a +3 bonus to hit and damage on physical attacks.


Blue
Force Spike
Color: Blue
Level: Walker 1
Mana: U
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (50 Feet)
Duration: 1 turn
Saving Throw: Fort Negates or Will
Spell Resistance:Yes
Effect:
The target of this spell is hit with a massive jolt of power momentarily overwhelming the victim unless they make a fortitude save. The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. The victim can choose up to take 1d2 points of temporary stat damage (stat chosen by the caster) in order to take a second saving throw.




Level 2 Spells

White
Sunlance
Color: White
Level: Walker 2
Mana: W
Casting time: 1 standard action
Duration: 1 round
Effect: Creates a lance of pure positive energy.
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
This spell creates a lance of pure positive energy that is dealy to evil. A non-good creature struck by it takes for 3d4 points of damage. The lance must be thrown as a missle attack and grants a +2 to hit rolls as well as for purpose of damage resistence. If the walker accidentally lances a creature that is not evil, the lance has no effect, but the spell is still used up for that day.



Level 3 Spells


Green
Stream of Life
Color: Green
Level: Walker 3
Mana: XGG
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Duration: Instant
Effect: One Creature
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
You channel the power of nature to reinforce your target's life force, healing him for xd4 health. X cannot be more then your current level.

Blue
Choking Tethers
Color: Blue
Level: Walker3
Mana: 1UUU
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (200 feet)
Duration: Instantaneous (see text)
Saving Throw: Reflex
Spell Resistance:No

You cast out magical chains against up to four creatures within the range of the spell. Each creature must make reflex save. Each creature that fails there save counts as pinned, and must make an opposed grapple check with you each round until one succeeds. For the purposes of these grapple checks, the caster may replace his strength with his intelligence. Once a creature succeeds at a grapple check, the chains lose their power and fade away and the creature is freed from the spell.

[EENick]

Alright here are the first batch of spells purposed from the old thread.

White
Level 1

Burst of Energy
Color: White
Level: 1
Prerequisites: Walker 1
Mana: W
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close 50 feet
Duration: 1 round
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
The next time the selected creature attack they can make an additional physical attack at +0.

Level 3
Angel's Grace
Color: White
Level: Walker 3
Mana: W
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Duration: 1 round
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No


Effect:
Until end of turn if you would be brought below 0 HP you are reduce to 0 HP instead. If you are currently at negative HP this spell takes up to 0.

Level 9
Intervention Pact
Color: White
Level: Walker 9
Mana: 0
Casting time: 0 (see description
Range: Personal
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
When casting this spell the user warp time and space slightly to a possible present which otherwise would not have happen. Specifically to one where the caster was healed and not harmed this turn.

You may cast this spell at any time regardless of what even spells or actions the walker has already cast, even when it is not their turn in response to an attack. After casting this spell the next time the caster would take damage this turn they instead gain that much life. When the user cast this spell in empties all their mana and they do not gain any mana the turn after using this spell.

Blue
Level 1
Clock Spinning
Color: Blue
Level: Walker 1
Mana: U
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Long 400 feet
Target: One Spell
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
Clock Spinning subtly effect the flow of time causing magical effects to either shorten or length by one round according to the caster’s whim.

Buyback: If the caster spend 5 additional mana when casting this spell they will not forget it after casting it.


Level 9
Pact of Negation
Color: Blue
Level: Walker 9
Mana: 0
Casting time: 0 (see description)
Range: Long 400 feet
Target: One Spell
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
When casting this spell the user warp time and space slightly to a possible present which otherwise would not have happen. Specifically to one where their opponent’s spell fizzled.

You may cast this spell at any time regardless of what even spells or actions the walker has already cast, even when it is not their turn in response a spell being cast but before it take effect. The cast of the spell must make a will saving throw. DC 15+all blue mana the caster possessed at the time of casting this spell or their spell fizzles. When the user cast this spell in empties all their mana and they do not gain any mana the turn after using this spell.

Red
Level 1
Blaze
Color: Red
Level: Walker 1
Mana: XR
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium 200 feet (+10 feet per mana spent on X)
Duration: Instant
Target: One Creature
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance:Yes

Effect:
The caster of this spell sends a stream of burning fire towards his or her target. The flames do 1d4 fire damage with a reflex save for half damage. You may not spend more mana on this spell then your current caster level.

Brute Force

Color: Red
Level: Walker 1
Mana: R
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close 50 feet
Target: One Creature
Duration: 1 turn
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
The spell fills the enspelled creature with sudden and unspeakable ferocity granting them a +3 AC bonus and a +3 bonus to hit and damage on physical attacks.

Firebolt
Color: Red
Level: Walker 1
Mana: R
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (50 ft.)
Duration: Instant
Effect: One Bolt of Fire
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
You fire a small bolt of fire at the target. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit your target. The bolt deals 1d6 points of fire damage. Then you may play its flashback ability if you so choose to fire a second firebolt. Flashback: 4R


Glacial Ray [Arcane]
Color: Red
Level: Walker 1
Mana: 1R
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (50 feet)
Duration: Instant
Effect: One Ray of Cold
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
A ray of freezing air and ice projects from your pointing finger. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack with the ray to deal damage to a target. The ray deals 1d4 points of cold damage.

Splice - As long as you have this spell memorized you gain the spell like ability to pay 1R to add 1d4 points to cast a copy of this spell without loosing the spell slot. If the spell fizzles or is counter spelled this spell is lost as well.

Level 2
Aura Barbs
Color: Red
Level: Walker 2
Mana: 1R
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (50 feet)
Duration: Instant
Target: One enchanted creature
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
This spell may only be cast on a creature that is currently enchanted. That creature takes 1d4 points of damage per spell level of the enchantment and the caster of the enchantment takes 1d4 points of damage per level of the enchantment.

Char
Color: Red
Level: Walker 2
Mana: 2R
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Long (400 Feet)
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: Reflex for half
Spell Resistance:Yes

Effect:
The spell opens a small portal to the plane of elemental fire within you allowing you to channel flame at one target creature. The spell deals 3d8 damage to the target, they may save (reflex) for half, and 2d4 damage to you (No save).

Level 5
Banefire
Color: Red
Level: Walker 5
Mana: XRR
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (200 feet+10 per mana spent on X)
Duration: Instant
Target: One Creature
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:Yes

Effect:
Banefire is a horrible burst of darkly empowered fire of an insidious nature making it hard to resist. Banefire deals Xd6 fire damage to its target with a reflex save for half. If five or mana was spent on X saves vs bane fire at made at -5 and Banefire has a 25% chance of overcoming fire resistance or anti-magic. You may not spend more mana on this spell then your current caster level.

Green
Level 1

Camouflage
Color: Green
Level: Walker 1
Mana: XG
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25 feet)
Duration: X minutes
Target: All Party Members
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
All party members effected by this spell become no descript semi-transparent humanoid shapes to any outside observers impossible to tell apart. While in this state all party members get a +5 bonus to move silently and hide checks. The spell ends prematurely if the PC attack anything as per invisibility.


Giant Growth
Color: Green
Level: Walker 1
Mana: G
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (50 Feet)
Duration: 1 Round
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
One willing target creature increases one (two?) size levels for one round.

Wild Growth
Color: Green
Level: Walker 1
Mana: G
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Area of Effect: ????
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:

You channel the power of the wild, causing plantlife to rapidly spring up iin a ten foot radius around you. The plants do not hinder your ability to act. While the spell is in effect, you gain one additional green mana each turn. If the plants are destroyed before the spell's duration is over, the effect ends prematurely.

Level 3

Stream of Life
Color: Green
Level: Walker 3
Mana: XG
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Duration: Instant
Effect: One Creature
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
You channel the power of nature to reinforce your target's life force, healing him for xd4 health

Level 4

Overrun
Color: Green
Level: Walker 4
Mana: 2GGG
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (50 Feet)
Duration: 1 Round
Effect: One creature per level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
The targets of the spell are charged with the power of the wild. For one round, they get +8 strength and +8 constitution, along with a +4 bonus to any bull rush attempt

Level 5

Hurricane
Color: Green
Level: Walker 5
Mana: XG
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels)
Duration: Instant
Effect: One hurricane
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
You summon a small hurricane above your head, disrupting all flying creatures. The bottom of the hurricane is centered at where the spell is targeted, with a radius of 1000 feet and a height of 100 feet, all creatures caught in the winds take xd6 damage per turn (reflex half). The bottom of the hurricane must be at least 10 feet off the ground.
This spell may only be cast outdoors.

[Lady Tialait]

Alright, Formate TIEM!

Burst of Energy
Color: White
Level: 1
Prerequisites: Walker 1
Mana: W
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close 50 feet
Duration: 1 round
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
The next time the selected creature attack they can make an additional physical attack at +0.


Don't you think that looks better?

[EENick]

I agree that looks good but at the time there were so many of these I was just interested in getting them all organized. If I have time later I'll see about formating them so they are easier on the eyes.

Edit: Formated

Here are my thoughts on some of the spells I didn't suggest.

Giant Growth Looks good. Lets go with two size levels.
Color: Green
Level: Walker 1
Mana: G
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (50 Feet)
Duration: 1 Round
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
One willing target creature increases one (two?) size levels for one round.

Wild Growth
Color: Green
Level: Walker 1
Mana: G
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Area of Effect: ???? Twenty Foot Radius around the caster
Duration: 1 minute/level I'd actually we suggest this is a semi-permanent change to the plant life in the area and simply force the caster to actually stand in the enchanted plants in order to get the effect.
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:

You channel the power of the wild, causing plantlife to rapidly spring up iin a ten foot radius around you. The plants do not hinder your ability to act. While the spell is in effect, you gain one additional green mana each turn. If the plants are destroyed before the spell's duration is over, the effect ends prematurely.

Level 3

Stream of Life
Color: Green
Level: Walker 3
Mana: XG I think we should increase the amount of G needed to kick off this spell so it isn't too efficent. This will be very powerful healing at the higher levels. That or drop in to 1 HP per X rather then d4.
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Duration: Instant
Effect: One Creature
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
You channel the power of nature to reinforce your target's life force, healing him for xd4 health

Level 4
Overrun
Color: Green
Level: Walker 4
Mana: 2GGG
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (50 Feet)
Duration: 1 Round
Effect: One creature per level I'd prefer to make all expandable effects mana rather then level dependant to help balance the class and make it different from wizards. I suggest this power just effect the whole party as per the original spell and perhaps increase its mana cost.
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
The targets of the spell are charged with the power of the wild. For one round, they get +8 strength and +8 constitution, along with a +4 bonus to any bull rush attempt

Level 5

Hurricane
Color: Green
Level: Walker 5
Mana: XG
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels) I suggest we either man this scale based on the mana put into the spell or make it centered around the caster with the walker at the eye of the storm which would be about 10 feet.
Duration: Instant Seems like this is kind of short for a hurricane
Area of Effect: 1000 feet
Effect: One hurricane
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
You summon a small hurricane above your head, disrupting all flying creatures. The bottom of the hurricane is centered at where the spell is targeted, with a radius of 1000 feet and a height of 100 feet, all creatures caught in the winds who do not take cover take xd6 damage per turn ???? If this spell is instant I don't think per turn applies. Though perhaps we should drop the reflex save and just make it 1d damage per turn round in the hurricane and let the X mana cost determine how long the hurricane lasts (reflex half). The bottom of the hurricane must be at least 10 feet off the ground. This spell may only be cast outdoors. I think we should just specify the spell just makes a hurricane force storm high in the sky above the caster. Those are usually more then 10 feet off the ground and outside.

I don't think this spell should focus so much on damage as making flight all but impossible for anything short of a skilled elder dragon. After all the hurricane itself could have many secondary out of the box uses like covering the parties retreat, obliterating their trail and hampering arrows.

[Kornaki]

I think we should increase the amount of G needed to kick off this spell so it isn't too efficent. This will be very powerful healing at the higher levels. That or drop in to 1 HP per X rather then d4.

Possibly... at level 11, say you have 15 mana... 14d4 is an average of 35hp. That's a little too much. Then at level 20... maybe you have 26 mana. 25d4 averages to 62.5hp.

Ok, a cleric level 4 spell at this piont heals on average for 20 + 4*4.5 = 38.4hp. At level 6, heal gives you 150 hp. Looks like putting Stream of Life as a level 5 spell works perfectly. No change in the spell required.

I like your wild growth idea.

Overrun: All creatures within a 30 foot radius then? I'd rather nerf the effect ab it rather than increase the mana cost since the symmetry between the card game and the D20 version feels good. Increasing the level is also an option

Hurricane was pretty poorly thought out now that I look at it again... yours is a pretty good idea. The size of the hurricane could scale based on mana, or perhaps the wind speed (although it would be annoying to be forced to know all the wind rules in order to judge the proper amount of mana to sink into the spell)

Let's get a bit organized here. Let's try to get, for each color:
4 level 1 spells
4 level 2 spells
3 level 3 spells
3 level 4 spells
2 level 5 spells
2 level 6 spells
2 level 7 spells
1 level 8 spell
1 level 9 spell

Or something like that, so that we can start trying to judge relative power of spells and such (for example, being level 1 is inherently more powerful than being level 5 due to the instant rule... how much more powerful is it?). Sound like a plan?

[EENick]

Possibly... at level 11, say you have 15 mana... 14d4 is an average of 35hp. That's a little too much. Then at level 20... maybe you have 26 mana. 25d4 averages to 62.5hp.

Ok, a cleric level 4 spell at this piont heals on average for 20 + 4*4.5 = 38.4hp. At level 6, heal gives you 150 hp. Looks like putting Stream of Life as a level 5 spell works perfectly. No change in the spell required.

Agreed, well make it level 5.



Overrun: All creatures within a 30 foot radius then? I'd rather nerf the effect ab it rather than increase the mana cost since the symmetry between the card game and the D20 version feels good. Increasing the level is also an option

Lets just table this spell for now and come back to it later.


Hurricane was pretty poorly thought out now that I look at it again... yours is a pretty good idea. The size of the hurricane could scale based on mana, or perhaps the wind speed (although it would be annoying to be forced to know all the wind rules in order to judge the proper amount of mana to sink into the spell)

Thanks. I agree about making size scale in addition to durration.


Let's get a bit organized here. Let's try to get, for each color:
4 level 1 spells
4 level 2 spells
3 level 3 spells
3 level 4 spells
2 level 5 spells
2 level 6 spells
2 level 7 spells
1 level 8 spell
1 level 9 spell

Or something like that, so that we can start trying to judge relative power of spells and such (for example, being level 1 is inherently more powerful than being level 5 due to the instant rule... how much more powerful is it?). Sound like a plan?

Well it is slightly more complicated 'cause we also need to consider color. What a spell does at which level is going to be very different depending on the color.

I suggest we try and focus on some 1-3rd level spells of all colors figure thos out and then start to use that as a baseline.

So far we have.

1st Level Total 9 of 25
Green
Camouflage
Giant Growth
Wild Growth

Red
Blaze
Brute Force
Firebolt - Needs work
Glacial Ray - May need work

Black
None

Blue
Clock Spinning

White
Burst of Energy

2nd Level Total 2 of 25
Green

Red
Char
Aura Barbs - So-So

Black
None

Blue
None

White
None

3rd Level Total 1 of 25
Green
None

Red
None

Black
None

Blue
None

White
Angel's Grace

__________________

I'll put forward our first black spell here.

Darkness
Color: Black
Level: 1
Mana: B
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Area of Effect: 50 feet centered on the caster
Duration: 1 turn
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
After casting this spell an unnatural darkness and silence immediately materializes around the caster cutting off all forms of sight and all sound. Anyone in the area other then the caster must make a will save or overcome with unnatural terror and disorientation unable to act for one round. All attacks made while under the cover this darkness are made at -5. Creature with Tremor sense are only at a -2 penalty.

[Kornaki]

Instead of putting white in uh... white text, but it in italics. It tends to be easier to read

Healing Salve
Color: White
Level: 1
Prerequisites: Walker 1
Mana: W
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
You channel healing power into your target, healing him for 3d4 hit points

Sunlance
Color: White
Level: 2
Prerequisites: Walker 1
Mana: W
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
You strike a non-good creature for 3d4 points of damage

[EENick]

Fixed the white text. BTW please give me some feedback on the spells I'm suggesting too.

Healing Salve
Color: White
Level: 1
Prerequisites: Walker 1
Mana: W
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
You channel healing power into your target, healing him for 3d4 This should probably be 2d4 so it isn't better then cure light wounds. hit points

Sunlance
Color: White
Level: 2
Prerequisites: Walker 1
Mana: W
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Duration: 1 round
Effect: Creates a lance of pure positive energy.
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

Effect:
This spell creates a lance of pure positive energy that is dealy to evil. A non-good creature struck by it takes for 3d4 points of damage. The lance must be thrown as a missle attack and grants a +2 to hit rolls as well as for purpose of damage resistence. If the walker accidentally lances a creature that is not evil, the lance has no effect, but the spell is still used up for that day.

Yes/No?

____________________

Disarm
Color: Blue
Level: Walker 1
Mana: U
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Short (50 Feet)
Duration: Instant
Effect: One Armed Human
Saving Throw: Reflex Negates
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The victim of this spell has all non-magical weapons and ammo teleported off their person and 5 feet from them in a random direction.

Disembowel
Color: B
Level: Walker 1
Mana: XB
Casting time: 1 standard Action
Range: Touch
Duration: Instant
Effect: One creature
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The caster of this spell must make a touch attack against the target. If they succeed and target creature’s hit points are under Xd4+1 it must make a fortitude save. If they fail the creature’s vital organs are exploded in a buster of gore within its chest and it is instantly killed. Creatures without vital organs such as constructs or undead are immune to this spell. If the creature has more hit points or passes their save they are aware of an unpleasant sensation but are totally unharmed.

Feast of Flesh
Color: Black
Level: Walker 1
Mana: BB
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Short (50 Feet)
Duration: Instant
Effect: One living create
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
Target creatures looses 1d4 hit points and you gain that amount. You may choose to lose multiple memorized copies of this spell at once to increase the damage dies according to the following chart.
2 spells used 2d4
3 Spells used 2d6
4 Sells used 2d10
5 Spells used 2d12

[Lady Tialait]

Terror
Color: Black
Level: 6
Mana: BB
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close 50 feet
Duration: None
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates, or Will Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Effect:
You fill the target with pure terror. The target must be a living being with a mana alignment other then black. That target dies. They may not use a regeneration abilities.




Wrath of God
Color: White
Level: 7
Mana: 2WW
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close 50 feet
Duration: None
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Effect:
Each creature other then the caster within range dies. They may not use a regeneration abilities.

Amidoinitrite?

[EENick]

Hmmm sort of a Phantasmal Killer eh? Looks good but I'dlike to suggest a few changes.


TerrorDark Banishing
Color: Black
Level: 6
Mana: 1BB
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close 50 feet
Duration: None
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates, or Will Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Effect:
This spell unleashes pure negative energy on your foe forcing them to experience hours of otherworldly horror and terror in the blink of and eye. The victem must make a fortitude or will save or be instantly slain by the experience. The target must be a living non-evil being.

(Kind of something between the 5th level Phantasmal Killer and the 6th level Finger of Death. I still think the might be over powered though with the multi-cast ability of Walkers.)


I know this is a MTG classic but I really think something like WoG should be epic level magic given the number of uber demons and dragons this could instantly kill. Circle of death is only one level lower and very similar and it can't even effect creatures over 9 hit dice.

Wrath of God
Color: White
Level: 7
Mana: 2WW
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close 50 feet
Duration: None
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Effect:
Each creature other then the caster within range dies. They may not use a regeneration abilities.

Amidoinitrite?

[Kornaki]

Disembowel
Color: B
Level: Walker 1
Mana: XB
Casting time: 1 standard Action
Range: Touch
Duration: Instant
Effect: One creature
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The caster of this spell must make a touch attack against the target. If they succeed and target creature’s hit points are under Xd4+1 it must make a fortitude save. If they fail the creature’s vital organs are exploded in a buster of gore within its chest and it is instantly killed. Creatures without vital organs such as constructs or undead are immune to this spell. If the creature has more hit points or passes their save they are aware of an unpleasant sensation but are totally unharmed.

This could be a fairly reliable kill spell at level 1 if you have an 18 intelligence/take the Mana Touched feat. Maybe make it a level 2 spell. The problem is...

By level 10 you can kill someone with an average of 35ish hit points, and all of a sudden it's useless. (you would previously be able to just light someone up for 35 points of damage by shooting a fireball) So it feels like the only way this spell helps is low level cheese at the moment

[Baron Corm]

Why are you giving planeswalkers 1 mana per level, if you are converting mana costs of cards on a 1-1 basis? This makes cards like Wrath of God able to be used whenever you feel like it, once you reach a certain level.

I think that you need to either increase the mana costs of cards, or make your mana maximum start at 1, and increase by +1 each round, up to a maximum of 1 per X class levels (takes a move action, so you're not always at max?).

I also think that you could do with less "spell levels". Relegating it to "common, uncommon, rare" would make life much easier for you. Certain bad rares or good commons could be manually changed.

Why have you abbreviated "planeswalker" in your base class? I'm assuming that's what "walker" is short for? Seems like the core of your system is something you'd want to spell out correctly.

P.S. Where are all of the creature cards? Those would be the hard part.

[EENick]

This could be a fairly reliable kill spell at level 1 if you have an 18 intelligence/take the Mana Touched feat. Maybe make it a level 2 spell. The problem is...

By level 10 you can kill someone with an average of 35ish hit points, and all of a sudden it's useless. (you would previously be able to just light someone up for 35 points of damage by shooting a fireball) So it feels like the only way this spell helps is low level cheese at the moment

Is that bad? I kind of intended it to be like that. Lots of low level spells like sleep and even higher level ones like circle of death only work on lower level creatures. It seemed to kind of fit I thought.


Why are you giving planeswalkers 1 mana per level, if you are converting mana costs of cards on a 1-1 basis? This makes cards like Wrath of God able to be used whenever you feel like it, once you reach a certain level.

I think that you need to either increase the mana costs of cards, or make your mana maximum start at 1, and increase by +1 each round, up to a maximum of 1 per X class levels (takes a move action, so you're not always at max?).


We are not converting mana cards on a 1-1 basis though. Additionally walkers need to memorize spells so they could only cast WoG X times per day. The function of walkers to cast multiple spells per turn with metamagic mana powered options built into them forcing walkers to spend there mana wisely.

The move action for mana is an interesting idea though. A really interesting one too. It would really help balance walkers if they had to use their move action to tap for their mana. I'll have to bring that up in the main thread.


I also think that you could do with less "spell levels". Relegating it to "common, uncommon, rare" would make life much easier for you. Certain bad rares or good commons could be manually changed.

It just doesn't really work out well with D&D. You need more then three spell levels to make sure higher level spells don't fall in players hands to early or deny them them the tools they'll need a certain levels.


Why have you abbreviated "planeswalker" in your base class? I'm assuming that's what "walker" is short for? Seems like the core of your system is something you'd want to spell out correctly.

'Cause the way I see it they are not planeswalkers till they hit the epic levels. Plus in D&D they are probably not going to be planeshifting a lot at the lower levels. Hence just plain old Walkers.


P.S. Where are all of the creature cards? Those would be the hard part.

We're still discussing how we want to handle creatures. They'll be added after we see how instants and sorceries work out.

[Lady Tialait]

Your right about creature spells...hmmm that gives me an idea for Wrath...

Planeswalkers often summon those who have alliances with. So, here are some Summoning rules:

Summoned creatures are 'summoning sick' when they first are summoned. They cannot do any action other then Defend.

Summoned creatures can be commanded each round once.



Soo, what do you think?

that would make Wrath of God destroy all SUMMONED creatures.

[Kornaki]

Why are you giving planeswalkers 1 mana per level, if you are converting mana costs of cards on a 1-1 basis? This makes cards like Wrath of God able to be used whenever you feel like it, once you reach a certain level.

I think that you need to either increase the mana costs of cards, or make your mana maximum start at 1, and increase by +1 each round, up to a maximum of 1 per X class levels (takes a move action, so you're not always at max?).

I also think that you could do with less "spell levels". Relegating it to "common, uncommon, rare" would make life much easier for you. Certain bad rares or good commons could be manually changed.

Why have you abbreviated "planeswalker" in your base class? I'm assuming that's what "walker" is short for? Seems like the core of your system is something you'd want to spell out correctly.

P.S. Where are all of the creature cards? Those would be the hard part.

The creatures are getting put off because we're not trying to play MtG, we're trying to insert MtG into the D20 rules. So it's going to be a lot less creature oriented than the card game.

You need the excess mana to be able to utilize the instant ability. wrath of god only costs 4 mana, but you can also cast a level 3 and a level 1 spell after it, so you'll want mana for those too.

[mithrawnudo]

Thanks for all of you guy's work, and I understand if you don't want to be bound by my original idea for the game. Saying that, most of these spells fit right into my mana system detailed over in that other thread, and I don't see a problem with it really other than the class right now.

As I said earlier, you are not a Planeswalker, and as you start in a universe of my own creation, the issue of you not being powerful enough should be overcome.

And I agree, the game will be much less focused on creature summoning or creation, as the focus is supposed to be on one of the more powerful but not Planeswalkers in the world. So you could summon things, but most of the time you will be fighting against random creatures or forces opposed to you.

[EENick]

Just a quick word on creatures.

I do plan for creature spells to be covered, but in a more roll playing oriented way since MTG summons specific creatures rather then taking a pot luck of infernal creatures.

Getting an elf shaman to serve you is clearly something that involes some rollplaying. Getting the spell to summon a legend is a whole quest unto itself.

For now though I would just perfer to leave them out of things.

mithrawnudo: Hmmm well if it is okay with you I think I'll just pirate the best of your ideas and adapt them to my own. It seems we developed in different directions and I'm reluctant to scrap my own ideas now. I might just split out my own thread for the Walker class.

[mithrawnudo]

No worries. However, if this becomes public or published, a mention or an advisor position would not be refused. ;)

And I am still interested in working with you for many of my things. I also have the soldier class nearly done now. I can send it to you or post it here.

[EENick]

How about we keep this thread for the Walker class and the MTG: d20 thread for the direction you are going in?

[mithrawnudo]

Sounds like a plan. I included the soldier class on the first post of my thread. Check it out if you want.

[EENick]

No worries. However, if this becomes public or published, a mention or an advisor position would not be refused. ;)

Ther is little fear of this going public since MTG is not open content stuff but if it happens you got it.

[Baron Corm]

It just doesn't really work out well with D&D. You need more then three spell levels to make sure higher level spells don't fall in players hands to early or deny them them the tools they'll need a certain levels.

Make the spells relevant at all levels or scaling, and allow players to trade out old spells for new ones, as you would if you got a better card. See also: Warlock.


'Cause the way I see it they are not planeswalkers till they hit the epic levels. Plus in D&D they are probably not going to be planeshifting a lot at the lower levels. Hence just plain old Walkers.

Where are they walking to then? :smallcool:

[Kornaki]

The pub.

It's a rough neighborhood

[EENick]

Make the spells relevant at all levels or scaling, and allow players to trade out old spells for new ones, as you would if you got a better card. See also: Warlock.



Where are they walking to then? :smallcool:

They are walking the earth like Kain or Samuel L. Jackson. :smallbiggrin:

While I apreciate the idea that doesn't work for the concept as it has been developed. Since they can learn any spell and memorize it like a wizard tht totally invalidates the idea of spell swaping or any similarity to the warlock.

It isn't that hard to assign a spell to level at least not for me and rares are not always top tear spells. Char for example is rare in MTG but not particularly good by D&D standard given the HUGE amount of spells at all levels which only harm your opponent.

[Kornaki]

Anyway, to go back to disembowel; I hate the sleep spell. It just annoys me that it's completely useless after a couple levels. Daze is OK because it's just a cantrip, but daze monster is another one. Like, WTF are you doing in my spellbook? So I hate disembowel for that reason. It's tough to change though because you don't want it too overpowering at lower levels. I suppose at the very least you can kill a stupid wizard who lets you get too close, so I won't complain too much.

By the way, if you're looking for spell ideas

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Default.aspx

You can search by color, name, type of spell, rules text etc. So if you want to find spells that destroy a creature, or spells that give a creature trample, etc. it's a lot easier to get ideas. Thought I'd post that in case you didn't know

[EENick]

Well keep in mind it wasn't a very good spell in MTG either. And while I too prefer spells the scale rather then get kicked the curb some players do like those. I know a lot of people who swear by them.

More spells will follow which will hopefully be more to your tastes.

[Kornaki]

I'm thinking maybe a lot of spells should have their colorless mana converted into colored mana, in order to make multi-coloring a bit more difficult. If over half of a spell's converted mana cost is in colorless mana, you're essentially paying no penalty for splitting your mana pool up into two colors.

Here's an idea
Choking Tethers
Color: Blue
Level: 3
Prerequisites: Walker 5
Mana: 1UUU
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium
Duration: Instantaneous (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

You cast out magical chains against up to four creatures within the range of the spell. Each creature must make an opposed grapple check against the caster. Each creature that loses the grapple check counts as pinned, and must continue to make an opposed grapple check with you each round until one succeeds. For the purposes of these grapple checks, the caster may replace his strength with his intelligence. Once a creature succeeds at a grapple check, the chains lose their power and the creature is freed from the spell

I kind of like the idea of blue having a bunch of spells where the caster literally projects mental power to affect the world. Disarm could have a disarm attempt against the opponent

[EENick]

I'm thinking maybe a lot of spells should have their colorless mana converted into colored mana, in order to make multi-coloring a bit more difficult. If over half of a spell's converted mana cost is in colorless mana, you're essentially paying no penalty for splitting your mana pool up into two colors.

Well go check out the new Walker thread. We put in the idea of making untap a move equivalent action and multi-casting a full round action to balance out the class.

To explain: Before Billy the 13th level red walker started each round with 13 mana, at the end of the turn his mana pool emptied and he got 13 more at the start of next round. With that he could cast up to three spells each round.

Now Billy has 13 mana he can potentially tap to cast spells. Once that mana is tapped it will not untap until Billy spends a move equivalent action to untap. Additionally Billy cannot untap in the same round he is casting multiple walker spells. Thusly mana and color management become a bit more important.


Choking Tethers
Color: Blue
Level: Walker3
Prerequisites: Walker 5
Mana: 1UUU
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium 200 feet
Duration: Instantaneous (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No

You cast out magical chains against up to four creatures within the range of the spell. Each creature must make an opposed grapple check against the caster. Each creature that loses the grapple check counts as pinned, and must continue to make an opposed grapple check with you each round until one succeeds. For the purposes of these grapple checks, the caster may replace his strength with his intelligence. Once a creature succeeds at a grapple check, the chains lose their power and the creature is freed from the spell

Not that it is mandatory but you might allow a reflex save to avoid getting pinned and only make those who failed there save use grapple checks in the following rounds to escape the chains.


I kind of like the idea of blue having a bunch of spells where the caster literally projects mental power to affect the world.

I always thought Psi was a large component of blue as well.

Speaking a blue here is a little spell I would like to discuss:

Force Spike
Color: Blue
Level: 1
Mana: U
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (50 Feet)
Duration: 1 turn
Saving Throw: Fort Negates or Will
Spell Resistance:Yes
Effect:
The target of this spell is hit with a massive jolt of power momentarily overwhelming the victim unless they make a fortitude save. The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. The victim can choose up to take 1d2 points of temporary stat damage (stat chosen by the caster) in order to take a second saving throw.


I think for tax type spells allowing player to take ability score damage is the closest we can come to MTG's "Unless the pay X". All classes can pay it and it actually has some effect of the game.

[Kornaki]

I like the tax concept.

For choking tethers, that's a good idea. That way at higher levels against larger monsters it's still got a 1 turn pin effect, and maybe more if you've optimized your character for psionic grappling against smaller and weaker guys

EDIT: I saw the untap thing... but consider: I'm level 14. Seven red mana and seven green mana. My important spells cost:

3R
2GG
4RR
2G

Then as long as I tap the colorless in the right proportions of red and green, the fact that I'm two colored has no impact on my mana capabilities. For example, the 3R spell I would spend GGRR on. The 2GG spell I would spend GGRR on. The 4RR spell, GGG RRRR. The only problem I might run into is when I'm down to 3 mana or less and trying to cast some 1 mana spells

[EENick]

I just don't see the problem. How is that different from playing with a well established mana base in magic? Typically two color decks don't have that much problem with mana bases unless they get really unlucky on their land draws, it is only when you get into 3 and 4 color mana that things start to become an issue.

Lets try that again with three mana.

Barry (Billy's older brother) is a 14th level Red, Green mage who took a feat to pick up 1 black mana.

So he has 7 Red, 6 Green, Black

He opens up with a spells barrage

3RR (GGRRR)
2G (RGG)
1B (RB)

Next round Barry has GG & RR left. Barry is still able to cast Green and Red pretty easily but he is totally locked out of black. He'll have to untap this round if he wants to cast any more black spells and he'll still have to wait until turn 3 to cast them.

At least in my mind that is more or less as intended. I think playing mono and duel colored spells (at the low levels) should be pretty easy and only get color intensive in 6th and higher level spells for the most part.

Also keep in mind in order to cast most decent black spells Barry is going to have to burn two feats (in addition to the one he took for getting green) in a class that doesn't get any bonus feats.
_____________
Edit:

Also consider that most abilities are going to be color intensive. IE:

Gigadrowse
Color: Blue
Level: Walker 1
Mana: U
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: 100 Feet
Duration: 1 Round
Effect: 1 Creature (see description)
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The subject stands in place for 1 round. It may not take any actions but is not considered helpless.
Replicate U – The caster may pay extra mana on this spells replicated ability when they cast it. For each extra U they spend this way the spell can target on additional creature.

______________

Additional Spell ideas

Holy Armor
Color: W
Level: Walker 1
Mana: W
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Duration: See Description
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The walker casts himself or another being in a magical cloak of armor. Each round the walker can spend white mana on the armor and for each point of mana spent this way the armor offers a +1 AC bonus for that round. The spell ends as soon as a round goes by that the walker does not spend mana on the armor. You cannot spend more than 10 mana on the armor each round.

Hidden Predators
Color: Green
Level: Walker 2
Mana: GG
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close 100 feet
Duration: Permanent
Target: One caster
Effect:[/] 4 Predators
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
When the walker casts this spell he names a color, domain or school of magic; this must be said aloud. The next time the victim casts a spell from the selected color, domain or school monstrous predators appears and attempt to eat them. They will attack until they are either slain or they’ve eaten the victim of this curse at which point the predator will vanish.
Hidden Predator
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 4d8+11 (29 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 30 ft.
Armor Class: 14 (–1 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+12
Attack: Claws +7 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 claws +7 melee (1d6+5) and bite +2 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +2
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
Skills: Climb +14, Listen +6, Spot +6
Feats: Alertness, Toughness
Challenge Rating: 2

[B]Dark Ritual
Color: B
Level: 3
Mana: B
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The caster gains three black mana. They must use this mana this round or it is lost.

Hail of Arrows
Color: White
Level: Walker 2
Mana: XW
Casting time: 1 standard Action
Range: Long (400 feet)
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The caster tosses up his hand a X magical arrows appear in the air. These arrows them immediately fly in a strait line towards any targets specified by the caster, each arrow may be directed to a different target. The arrows do 1d4 damage and require a to hit roll using the casters to hit. The arrows break on impact and cannot be recovered. X may not be greater than your current level.

[Kornaki]

[quote] Brain Freeze
Color: Blue
Level: Walker 6
Mana: 1U
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: 100 Feet
Duration: 1 Round (see text)
Effect: 1 Creature (see description)
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The subject's brain is magically frozen in time. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech.

Storm: Until the end of your next turn, each time you cast a spell the subject of this spell must make another saving throw. If it fails, the effect lasts one additional round

[EENick]

When playing a 2 color deck, it's not surprising to end up being stuck on one color for the first couple of turns. This doesn't happen here.

And honestly I don't think it should around level 13 or so. But how often are you going to be stuck with sub optimal mama levels 1-5? More then likely a lot.


This looks good. Are we even going to have spell resistance in this new game? If so, this is exactly the kind of thing that it would work on.

Lots of MTG creatures have spell resistence in the form of protection and shroud so yea we'll have spell resistence I think, at least after a fashion. Plus I would like these to be compatable with normal 3.5 monsters.




Interesting. See my comment in the other thread about how enchantments should work. We should work out either a standard, or agree on no standard and every enchantment is a free for all for duration.

I think we should handle them on a case to case basis.


Hah... I like it. I'd say they maybe they should have improved grapple though, so they can... well, grapple better. Would make the spell slightly better, but slightly more flavorful as the predators exist to kill the spellcaster, so grappling makes sense. The attack stats can be reduced a little to compensate

Grappling? Sure I don't think that should be a problem.

As for close I thought it was anything under 100 feet. Where as long was anything over 399.


What's a domain? LIke a cleric domain?

Yes.



Simple enough, but it kind of sucks as is. Either you wait until you can cast a level 6 spell, or you can only power out level 1 spells with this. I suggest we bring back the mana source: You can cast it as an immediate action, and it doesn't count towards your instants for the turn, or as your first spell either. So you can cast this and then cast a level 5 spell for example

Hmmm you are correct. I'll have to rethink this one. Thanks!

I apreciate the feedback.

[Kornaki]

Huh... somehow I accidentally edited my last post instead of posting a new one :smallconfused:

Anyway, see my idea for storm and brain freeze up above. here's what I posted there originally

Originally Posted by EENick View Post
I just don't see the problem. How is that different from playing with a well established mana base in magic? Typically two color decks don't have that much problem with mana bases unless they get really unlucky on their land draws, it is only when you get into 3 and 4 color mana that things start to become an issue.
When playing a 2 color deck, it's not surprising to end up being stuck on one color for the first couple of turns. This doesn't happen here.

Quote:
Gigadrowse
Color: Blue
Level: Walker 1
Mana: U
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: 100 Feet
Duration: 1 Round
Effect: 1 Creature (see description)
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The subject stands in place for 1 round. It may not take any actions but is not considered helpless.
Replicate U – The caster may pay extra mana on this spells replicated ability when they cast it. For each extra U they spend this way the spell can target on additional creature.
This looks good. Are we even going to have spell resistance in this new game? If so, this is exactly the kind of thing that it would work on.

Quote:
Holy Armor
Color: W
Level: Walker 1
Mana: W
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Duration: See Description
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The walker casts himself or another being in a magical cloak of armor. Each round the walker can spend white mana on the armor and for each point of mana spent this way the armor offers a +1 AC bonus for that round. The spell ends as soon as a round goes by that the walker does not spend mana on the armor. You cannot spend more than 10 mana on the armor each round.
Interesting. See my comment in the other thread about how enchantments should work. We should work out either a standard, or agree on no standard and every enchantment is a free for all for duration

Quote:
Hidden Predators
Color: Green
Level: Walker 2
Mana: GG
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close 100 feet When did close become 100 feet? I think it was 50 earlier
Duration: Permanent
Target: One caster
[b]Effect:[/] 4 Predators
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
When the walker casts this spell he names a color, domain or school of magic; this must be said aloud. The next time the victim casts a spell from the selected color, domain or school monstrous predators appears and attempt to eat them. They will attack until they are either slain or they’ve eaten the victim of this curse at which point the predator will vanish.
Hidden Predator
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 4d8+11 (29 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 30 ft.
Armor Class: 14 (–1 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+12
Attack: Claws +7 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 claws +7 melee (1d6+5) and bite +2 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +2
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
Skills: Climb +14, Listen +6, Spot +6
Feats: Alertness, Toughness
Challenge Rating: 2
Hah... I like it. I'd say they maybe they should have improved grapple though, so they can... well, grapple better. Would make the spell slightly better, but slightly more flavorful as the predators exist to kill the spellcaster, so grappling makes sense. The attack stats can be reduced a little to compensate

What's a domain? LIke a cleric domain?

[quote]
Quote:
Dark Ritual
Color: B
Level: 3
Mana: B
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The caster gains three black mana. They must use this mana this round or it is lost. This spell counts as a mana source
Simple enough, but it kind of sucks as is. Either you wait until you can cast a level 6 spell, or you can only power out level 1 spells with this. I suggest we bring back the mana source: You can cast it as an immediate action, and it doesn't count towards your instants for the turn, or as your first spell either. So you can cast this and then cast a level 5 spell for example

Quote:
Hail of Arrows
Color: White
Level: Walker 2
Mana: XW
Casting time: 1 standard Action
Range: Long (400 feet)
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The caster tosses up his hand a X magical arrows appear in the air. These arrows them immediately fly in a strait line towards any targets specified by the caster, each arrow may be directed to a different target. The arrows do 1d4 damage and require a to hit roll using the casters to hit. The arrows break on impact and cannot be recovered. X may not be greater than your current level.
I like it. At higher levels you won't hit with many arrows, but you'll have a ton of them, so the damage should be fairly constant throughout.

[EENick]

Hmmmm that isn't a bad idea for storm, I like the multi save angle but I'm not 100% sold on the idea either. It is certainly better then shoving multi-casting on top of multi-casting.

My concern though is that it makes the spells a little to bi-polar. It makes it pretty worthless when cast on a normal round but in a round where you are taking full action it is extreamly powerful and puts statstic probability in your favor. I could see this being a keystone in boss battles since if will typically catch them at least once, giving you time to untap and hit them again while your party wails on the helpless boss. Even bosses with good saves are probably going to miss one in five after all and that is assuming you don't use tricks like flashback or ripple to up your storm count.

Lets mark this as an item that needs some serious play testing.

Here are a few my my corner:

Orim’s Chant
Color: White
Level: Walker 1
Mana: W
Casting time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Short 50 feet
Duration: 1 turn
Saving Throw: Will
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The effected foe is reduced to half actions this round unless they make a will save.
Kicker WWW – If the caster pays the kicker cost the victim looses all actions this turn and may not make attack’s of opportunity. If kicker was paid and the victim saves they may take a half action.


peek
Color: Blue
Level: Walker 2
Mana: U
Casting time: 1 standard Action
Range: Visual
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
Peek allows the caster to know all the spells a wizard or cleric has memorized and all the spells known of a sorcerer, bard or similar class. The caster must be able to make eye contact with the victim at the time of casting. The caster learns the name a vague feel of the spell but does not get a detailed spell description.

[Kornaki]

Peek... new idea:

Cantrips don't get unmemorized!

By cantrip I don't mean a level 0 spell, I mean a spell that has "Draw a card" on it in MTG. They tend to be pretty weak, and in MtG are only used because they replace themselves. So we don't have a good equivalent to drawing a card, but you could just have it so you can always cast it.

[EENick]

I think that crosses wires a bit.

Most spells with Cantrip are supposed to be a sort of portable kicker if you will. In MTG they have to be expressed as card but really they are supposed to be little metamagic tricks that mages have picked up their travels.

Consider if you will Overmaster (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=29868). The idea behind the card is not that overmaster can be cast over and over again, but that this ia a trick a walker has learned to add to any spell by increasing the cost by R.

Really most cantrip spells are much more like feats.

I think having them being basically at will spells would be very problematic at best.

I think cantrips would be better expressed as either once per day powers that walkers could get from feats or more simply metamagic feats.

[Kornaki]

Ok, some more spell idea. From green (I decide to take a shot at summoning)

Regeneration
Color: Green
Level: Walker 3
Mana: 1G
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One creature
Duration: Permanent (see description) (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The spell causes the subject to regenerate similar to a troll. The subject gains Regeneration 5, and is vulnerable to fire and acid. At the beginning of each turn, you must pay one green mana or the spell ends.


Beast Attack
Color: Green
Level: Walker 6
Mana: 2GGG
Casting time: 1 immediate action
Range: Close
Target: None
Duration: One combat (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
You call upon the animals of the wild to aid you. You summon one dire bear anywhere within the range of the spell. The animal obeys you until there are no enemies in sight, after which it is unsummoned

Flashback 2GGG (whatever this means :smallsmile: )


Berserk
Color: Green
Level: Walker 5
Mana: G
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One willing creature
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
You double the strength of one willing creature. At the end of your next turn, the creature dies. No effect that prevents death effects can prevent this from occurring. (summoned creatures always count as willing)


Fog
Color: Green
Level: Walker 1
Mana: G
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Duration: Five minutes
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
A misty vapor arises around you. It is stationary once created. The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target).

A moderate wind (11+ mph), such as from a gust of wind spell, disperses the fog in 4 rounds. A strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the fog in 1 round. A fireball, flame strike, or similar spell burns away the fog in the explosive or fiery spell’s area. A wall of fire burns away the fog in the area into which it deals damage.

This spell does not function underwater.

(hey, some spells come pre-made for us)


Killer Bees
Color: Green
Level: Walker 2
Mana: 1GG
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium
Duration: Permanent (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
You summon a swarm of bees (equivalent statistics to a locust swarm in MM, except instead of Distraction nauseating the creature, the creature must make a Will save or be shaken for a round). You perfectly control its actions via a magical link. The spell lasts until there are no more creatures left to order the swarm to attack


Horned Troll
Color: Green
Level: Walker 5
Mana: 2G
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Duration: Permanent (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
You summon a troll (see MM for statistics). You control it perfectly via a magical link. The spell lasts until there are no more creatures for you to order it to attack.


One Dozen Eyes
Color: Green
Level: Walker 4
Mana: 5G
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Duration: Permanent (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
Choose one: You summon either a lion or five giant ants (see MM for statistics) . Whichever creatures you summon, you control them perfectly via a magical link. The spell lasts until there are no more creatures for you to order them to attack.
Entwine - GGG (when you cast the spell, if you pay the entwine cost you may pick both options)

Cool note: when you first get this spell you may not be able to afford to cast it with entwine

[EENick]

Alright,

Kornaki you've been a great partner on this project and I really like some of your ideas, so if I seem a little bit negative about summons I am not trying to shoot you down just giving some honest feedback.



Ok, some more spell idea. From green (I decide to take a shot at summoning)

Regeneration
Color: Green
Level: Walker 3
Mana: 1G
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One creature
Duration: Permanent (see description) (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
The spell causes the subject to regenerate similar to a troll. The subject gains Regeneration 5, and is vulnerable to fire and acid. At the beginning of each turn, you must pay one green mana or the spell ends.

I sugest we make this an X spell (as it it works for X turns). Otherwise outside of combat this becomes a one stop shop for all your your healing needs. Outside of comabt a character could just untap and keep it going till someone was fully healed while a cleric would have to burn multiple spell slots. That makes it a little too good.

Beast Attack
Color: Green
Level: Walker 6
Mana: 2GGG
Casting time: 1 immediate action
Range: Close
Target: None
Duration: One combat (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
You call upon the animals of the wild to aid you. You summon one dire bear anywhere within the range of the spell. The animal obeys you until there are no enemies in sight, after which it is unsummoned

Flashback 2GGG (whatever this means :smallsmile: )

Hmmmmm. I'm not wild about this untl there are no enemies in sight condition. Seems to open to manipulation (one good mass invisibility and pop all your creatures are gone). I've been thinking about creatures and how we can make them work. I don't want to restrict creatures just to combat since many of them are smart and have non-combat abilities. My suggestion would be that as long as a creature is summoned its mana doesn't untap or something like that. This note applies to all creature spells.

Berserk
Color: Green
Level: Walker 5
Mana: G
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One willing creature
Duration: Instant
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
You double the strength of one willing creature. At the end of your next turn, the creature dies. No effect that prevents death effects can prevent this from occurring. (summoned creatures always count as willing)

I see this as very problematic as I can think of more then one creatures I can summon high enough strength to make this ungodly. Jumping from a +5 bonus at 20 strength to a +15 bonus for any creature with a full attack is unbalanced. It is well worth the cost to burn a dying creature. Killing a summoned creature is nothing in D&D's style of combat.

Fog
Color: Green
Level: Walker 1
Mana: G
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Duration: Five minutes
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
A misty vapor arises around you. It is stationary once created. The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target).

A moderate wind (11+ mph), such as from a gust of wind spell, disperses the fog in 4 rounds. A strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the fog in 1 round. A fireball, flame strike, or similar spell burns away the fog in the explosive or fiery spell’s area. A wall of fire burns away the fog in the area into which it deals damage.

This spell does not function underwater.

Looks good. I like it.

(hey, some spells come pre-made for us)


Killer Bees
Color: Green
Level: Walker 2
Mana: 1GG
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium
Duration: Permanent (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
You summon a swarm of bees (equivalent statistics to a locust swarm in MM, except instead of Distraction nauseating the creature, the creature must make a Will save or be shaken for a round). You perfectly control its actions via a magical link. The spell lasts until there are no more creatures left to order the swarm to attack


Horned Troll
Color: Green
Level: Walker 5
Mana: 2G
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Duration: Permanent (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
You summon a troll (see MM for statistics). You control it perfectly via a magical link. The spell lasts until there are no more creatures for you to order it to attack.


One Dozen Eyes
Color: Green
Level: Walker 4
Mana: 5G
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Duration: Permanent (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
Choose one: You summon either a lion or five giant ants (see MM for statistics) . Whichever creatures you summon, you control them perfectly via a magical link. The spell lasts until there are no more creatures for you to order them to attack.
Entwine - GGG (when you cast the spell, if you pay the entwine cost you may pick both options)

Cool note: when you first get this spell you may not be able to afford to cast it with entwine

I agree with you that is a cool factor with Entwine and kicker for that matter.

Not a bad first attempt at creatures but I think they might be a bit unbalaned.

I wasn't quite ready to jump into creatures but since you've brough it up lets talk creatures.

I think think there are four types of summons in MTG.

From nothing summons : Where like in D&D of old you are basically making a disposable creature out magic.

EX: Most constructs, and many elementals.

Generic Summons: Where you are grabing something very broad like a bear.

EX: Animals, generic soldiers.

Organizational summons: Where you grab a creature from a specific group like a elf shaman from Ravnica.

EX: This is the bulk of MTG summons, clerics from the Order of the Edon hand or Kithkin Knights, most angels and demons fall under this group too.

Legendary Summons: Where you pull a specific creatures.

EX: You know how this works, Elder Legend Dragons, Dakkon Blackblade etc. etc.

I think probably each should have their own rules and certainly each one gets more RP intesive.

I can buy that some of these folks might be works willing to higher out to players allowing themselves to be summoned but that still leaves a lot of role playing to go into such things.

Much like enchantments I think they'll likely need to be handled on a cast to cast basis for a large part of them.

[Kornaki]

No offense taken... I'm pretty bad in DnD at seeing combo potential and stuff like that, so I expect my attempts to be poked full of holes. I like to think of myself as more of a visionary :smallbiggrin:

You have a good point on creatures in general. Beast attack should stay the same regardless though...it's not actually a creature summon, it's an instant that puts a token into play. Presumably you're summoning it for the express purpose of attacking something, when it can't attack that thing it leaves. And mass invisibility takes the place of unsummon. But in general sure.

In retrospect Regeneration sucked as a spell. How about this

At the beginning of your turn, you must pay one green mana or the effect ends prematurely. Mana spent in this way cannot be untapped while Regeneration is still in effect.

I recall from one of my MtG books that a planeswalker needs to have an item connected to you in order to be able to summon you (this can be given willingly or taken unwillingly) and that once summoned you have to listen to the planeswalker's commands (probably a will save to avoid this, or for DnD require it to be willingly summoned, though this is problematic for summoning animals etc.)

[EENick]

How about this then:

Beast Attack
Color: Green
Level: Walker 6
Mana: 2GGG
Casting time: 1 immediate action
Range: Close
Target: None
Duration: (see text)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance:No
Effect:
When a walker cast this spell then tap into the very heart of nature. A fully grown X (Dire bear) is is pulled into existence from primal green mana. The bear has an mild empathic link to you and will attack your foes but cannot be commanded to do much else. The bear will stay and attacked until unsummoned or all visible foes the bear can detect are slain (in which case it will unsummon itself) or th e bear itself is slain. Likewise if the bear is at any time rendered unconcious, held, stunned or otherwise incapcitated the creature will also become unsommoned. Regardless at the end of the spell the bear's physical form breaks back down into green mana and is returned to whence it game.

Flashback 2GGG (TBA)