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Colmarr
2009-05-20, 06:53 PM
My DM has given me the opportunity of creating an artifact for my 4e battle cleric of Tempus to wield. The artifact will likely be gained at approximately 9th level and is intended to last into late paragon.

Here's what's I've come up with:


Artifact: Stormbringer

This bastard sword is silver-white, with a hilt cap depicting a shield emblazoned with lightning.

Stormbringer is a +3 thundering bastard sword with the following properties and powers.
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +3d6 thunder damage
Property: Stormbringer may be used as a holy symbol. While using Stormbringer as a holy symbol, you do not gain the weapon’s proficiency bonus to attack rolls.
Property: You gain a +2 item bonus to Insight and Endurance checks.
Power (Daily): As per thundering weapon.
Power (Daily): Minor Action. You grant one ally within 5 squares a power bonus to AC and Reflex equal to the enhancement bonus of this weapon. The bonus lasts until the end of your next turn.

Stormbringer is appropriate for paragon-tier characters.

Goals of Stormbringer -

Roleplaying Stormbringer -

Concordance

Starting score 5

Owner gains a level +1d10
Owner … (+)
Owner … (+)
Owner … (+)
Owner … (-)
Owner … (-)


Transcendent (Over 20)
“None shall fall over whom we stand guard”
Stormbringer is proud to be in the possession of such a faithful guardian.
Stormbringer’s enhancement bonus increases to +4.
Critical: +4d6 thunder damage.
Property: You gain the dwarf “Stand your ground” ability if you do not already have it. If you already have that ability, the ability instead reduces forced movement by a further 1 square.



Pleased (16–20)
“We are an aegis for the weak”
The owner’s faithfulness pleases Stormbringer, and it gives the owner greater power to protect his or her charges.
Property: The item bonus to Insight and Enduarance checks increases to +4.
Power (Encounter): Immediate Interrupt; when an ally is hit by an attack. You and the ally gain resist 10 to untyped damage until the end of your next turn.



Satisfied (12–15)
“Do not give up! We can save them yet!”
The owner has proved himself a defender of the weak. Stormbringer spurs its owner toward greater deeds with greater gifts.
Property: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls against any creature that is adjacent to an ally who has a lower Armour Class than you.
Power (Daily): Standard Action. As the paladin’s (encounter 13) Whirlwind Smite power.


Normal (5–11)
“I am Stormbringer, defender of the meek.”
Stormbringer keeps the owner under constant scrutiny, pushing him or her to defend those less capable of defending themselves.


Unsatisfied (1–4)
“Stormbringer chafes under my antipathy.”
The owner does not show the dedication and selflessness that Stormbringer desires, and Stormbringer resorts to stronger encouragement.
Special: You take a –2 penalty to attack rolls if you are not within 5 squares of an ally.



Angered (Below 1)
“If you will not protect them voluntarily, then I will make you.”
Stormbringer considers its owner unworthy. If the owner does not find redemption soon, Stormbringer exacts punishment upon him or her. Until then, Stormbringer forces the owner to lay down his or her life for the weak.
Special: Once per encounter, when an ally or non-enemy is bloodied, Stormbringer forces its owner to use a healing surge as a free action. The owner regains no hit points. The bloodied ally or non-enemy regains hit points as though it had spent a healing surge.


Moving On
“Others are in need of my protection”
Stormbringer leaves its owner …
If Stormbringer is displeased with its owner…


My thoughts and logic:
Other than the “Owner gains a level + 1d10” (which seems to be on all artifacts) I’ve left all the roleplaying and concordance factors for the DM to decide. My character has seen Stormbringer before (in the hands of his mentor), but has never wielded the weapon and has only a vague notion of what Stormbringer wants.

To give him (and you) some guidance though, I designed the sword by jotting down some keywords that guided my choice of powers. Those keywords were Guardian, Champion, Insight and Perseverance. Concordance and roleplaying based around or related to those keywords will work just fine.

From a mechanical perspective, I designed Stormbringer using the Spear of the Skylord (from Dragon Magazine) as the base for comparison. Both are paragon artifacts.

The base weapon is a +3 thundering bastard sword, which on its own is a level 13 weapon. When you add the various base properties (skill bonus and counting as a holy symbol) and the additional daily power, it’s easily a level 14, maybe even level 15, weapon.

I’m half-inclined to remove the daily power that adds to an ally’s AC and Reflex. I originally had that as an encounter power, before realising it was grossly overpowered.

As it stands, a fully concordant Stormbringer grants 3 daily powers and 1 encounter power. The fact that most of the powers are daily goes some way IMO to balancing the weapon, because it takes at least 2 encounters per day for the user to be able to use all 3 daily powers (remembering that you normally get 2 items powers per day at paragon rather than 1).

I’m a bit cautious about the property granted by the “Satisfied” concordance rating (the +1 to attack rolls). That’s a pretty hefty property, so I tried to limit it (and tie it to the theme of the weapon) by adding the proviso about allies. At the moment, it would only be triggered by the party's wizard, but by early paragon (after I take Scale and Heavy Shield proficiencies) the party druid and possibly the rogue will probably qualify.

I’m also a bit cautious about the “Satisfied” concordance rating’s daily power. It’s a paladin 13 power, and it’s possible that my character might therefore have access to a level 13 encounter power at level 11 or 12 (or even 10 if the DM sets the concordance factors too generously and/or I roll well for my +1d10 on level up). Against that fact, it must be noted that the power can only be used once per day.

So what do the playgrounders think? I'm particularly interested on comments as to whether this is balanced against other paragon artifacts or not.

NecroRebel
2009-05-20, 08:17 PM
It seems a bit too strong for heroic tier, even late heroic. Then again, artifacts are sort of supposed to be stronger than most, and most of the benefits are relatively minor, so it shouldn't be too bad.

You really should make the Thundering Weapon's at-will power explicitly part of this one. As is, this weapon doesn't have the capacity of dealing thunder damage instead of regular damage. Just copy-paste and it should be fine.

The property of Transcendent concordance should just be "When an effect forces you to move—through a pull, a push, or a slide—you can move 1 square less than the effect specifies. This means an effect that normally pulls, pushes, or slides a target 1 square does not force you to move unless you want to. In addition, when an attack would knock you prone, you can immediately make a saving throw to avoid falling prone." Identical to the Stand your Ground feature, but then it's more clear exactly what you want it to do. You might still also make it explicit that it stacks with Stand Your Ground, but that technically isn't necessary.

Also, while you say you want this for a cleric, the property gained at Satisfied is very, very powerful. Maybe too powerful; those items that give a bonus to attack beyond enhancement are rare, and they are without exception considered broken. Make it a damage bonus instead, possibly Cha or Wis modifier.



Against other artifacts... Yeah, looks about right. Again, I dislike the wording on the Transcendent property, and I feel the Satisfied bonus is too strong (though switching it to Transcendent may be alright), but other than that, it looks like it fits overall.

Colmarr
2009-05-20, 09:56 PM
It seems a bit too strong for heroic tier, even late heroic. Then again, artifacts are sort of supposed to be stronger than most, and most of the benefits are relatively minor, so it shouldn't be too bad.

It's definitely too strong for heroic, which is why it's a paragon artifact. At level 9, a lucky character can expect to receive a level 13 weapon in a treasure parcel. I think this artifact is stronger than a 13th level weapon, but it's not out of line for an artifact IMO.

I personally see this as a level 14-20 weapon (depending on how many of the concordance effects you earn).


You really should make the Thundering Weapon's at-will power explicitly part of this one. As is, this weapon doesn't have the capacity of dealing thunder damage instead of regular damage. Just copy-paste and it should be fine.

Hmm. I must have missed that when looking at the PHB.


The property of Transcendent concordance should just be "When an effect forces you to move—through a pull, a push, or a slide—you can move 1 square less than the effect specifies. This means an effect that normally pulls, pushes, or slides a target 1 square does not force you to move unless you want to. In addition, when an attack would knock you prone, you can immediately make a saving throw to avoid falling prone." Identical to the Stand your Ground feature, but then it's more clear exactly what you want it to do. You might still also make it explicit that it stacks with Stand Your Ground, but that technically isn't necessary.

Good point.


]Also, while you say you want this for a cleric, the property gained at Satisfied is very, very powerful. Maybe too powerful; those items that give a bonus to attack beyond enhancement are rare, and they are without exception considered broken. Make it a damage bonus instead, possibly Cha or Wis modifier.

Yeah, as stated in my general comments, I was worried about this too. However, when compared against the same property on the Spear of the Skylord (Satisfied - Property: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls against any creature standing on the ground.), my version is comparatively tame.

Nevertheless, comment noted.

EDIT: My DM has suggested replacing that property with:


Power (at-will): Free action. Once per round you mark an enemy that is adjacent to both you and one of your allies.

I sorta like it. What do others think?


Against other artifacts... Yeah, looks about right... other than that, it looks like it fits overall.

Thanks, and thanks for taking a look.

NecroRebel
2009-05-20, 10:17 PM
EDIT: My DM has suggested replacing that property with:


Power (at-will): Free action. Once per round you mark an enemy that is adjacent to both you and one of your allies.

I sorta like it. What do others think?

It's less powerful, certainly, and seems a bit more defender/leaderish. In play, though, simple marks tend to be a bit weak for everyone but Fighters, because Fighters are the only ones who really get anything out of it besides the attack penalty.

Hmm... Know what might be cool? A 1/encounter use of Divine Challenge.


Thanks, and thanks for taking a look.

You're welcome :smallsmile:

I'm never sure if I really know what I'm talking about, and I know I'm not the best at assessing homebrews, so I'd suggest trying to find a second opinion.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-05-22, 10:05 PM
So, right off the bat:

Artifacts do not count as magic items when it comes to using their daily powers. In other words, the use of an artifact’s daily power does not cost you the use of a magic item’s daily power and does not count toward that limit.
You'll probably want to alter the powers based on this new knowledge.

Let's see... here's a couple of suggestions on that Satisfied Property:
(1) make it a Power Bonus
(2) trigger it when adjacent to Bloodied allies (much more flavorful)

Or we can replace it. How about:
Property: When an ally is hit by a melee attack you may, as an Immediate Interrupt, Teleport to a square that is adjacent to both that ally and the enemy that hit him. The attack is redirected to you, but you only take half damage.

Possible Adjustments
- Allow you to mark that enemy
- Swap places with the attacked ally
- Only used on Bloodied allies
My thinking here is that the power should represent the Cleric rushing to the rescue of an ally who is in danger.

Aside from that, it looks OK.

N.B. I have not used the Artifacts rules before (though they look neat) and my experience with Paragon is somewhat limited. So take that as you will.

Kurald Galain
2009-06-02, 04:20 AM
Okay, some feedback as requested.

It seems a bit much for level 9, and it contradicts your assertion that this is meant for paragon characters. Concordance can go up really fast (indeed, that seems to be the whole point).

I don't get the bonus to insight, or the minor action AC bonus. They don't seem to mesh with a thunder sword or the concept of bringing storms. I believe this is the main issue with the artifact: its powers seem to be all over the place, rather than having a clear focus. Is it meant to protect the weak? Protect the wielder? Smite people with thunder? Bring Storms? Help the forces of chaos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormbringer)? Improve the agenda of Tempus (a deity that is generally not concerned with protection, or indeed with storms)? Pick one or maybe two and stick with them.

A few minor issues... giving an ally a small AC bonus that lasts one turn is not really an impressive ability (unless it's an interrupt). Also, "-2 penalty unless you're near an ally" isn't really much of a penalty, and "forcing the owner to spend a healing surge for an ally" is actually helpful rather than a penalty. The bonus "against any creature that is adjacent to an ally who has a lower Armour Class than you" is probably overly complex.

Personally, if I were to create an artifact for Tempus, I would let it boost its owner's melee prowess, give bonuses against fear and charm effects, a daily that forces an enemy into close range, and maybe some effects from the warlord list. This meshes well with "champion" but not your other three keywords, and it would probably not be a holy symbol.

If I were to create an artifact called Stormbringer, I would let it call lightning down from the heavens, give resistance against elements, do a wind-based push effect and probably a zone conjuration. This is mostly from the wizard or sorcerer list. It would probably not be a sword.

If I were to create an artifact that is about guarding and perseverance, I would give it defensive abilities, a healing effect or two, damage resistance, and paladin-like tricks that let you take damage for your ally instead. Probably a daily that interrupts your falling below zero HP to heal youl. It would probably not be a weapon, but simply a holy symbol.

And if I were to create an artifact that is about insight, it wouldn't be a weapon either, but I'd give it bonuses to mental skills, probably a skill reroll or two, and the power to ignore cover, boost range, and see invisibility in combat. Maybe a meta effect that tells you an enemy's HP, defenses, or resists.

The Tygre
2009-06-02, 03:53 PM
Personally, I'd change the name. Don't be temptin' me with Elric goods and then not show!

Yakk
2009-06-03, 09:30 AM
The "doesn't like you" power is too friendly. And it converts healing surges into HP, which is an advantage.

Something like... Have it take all damage done to all of your allies in a round once per encounter, at the call of the weapon. That would be a penalty that would, as a side benefit, make it more likely that the wielder would pass the blade on. :)

Note that this "doesn't like you" power isn't generating extra resources.

Colmarr
2009-06-09, 04:05 PM
I don't get the bonus to insight, or the minor action AC bonus. They don't seem to mesh with a thunder sword or the concept of bringing storms. I believe this is the main issue with the artifact: its powers seem to be all over the place, rather than having a clear focus. Is it meant to protect the weak? Protect the wielder? Smite people with thunder? Bring Storms? Help the forces of chaos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormbringer)? Improve the agenda of Tempus (a deity that is generally not concerned with protection, or indeed with storms)? Pick one or maybe two and stick with them.

My bolding. As I explained in my "Thoughts and Logic Spoiler":


To give him (and you) some guidance though, I designed the sword by jotting down some keywords that guided my choice of powers. Those keywords were Guardian, Champion, Insight and Perseverance. Concordance and roleplaying based around or related to those keywords will work just fine.

You're right about the theme not matching the name. The artifact was named at a time when this character was built as a cleric of Kord (the God of Strength and Storms). We later started the campaign in Forgotten Realms, so he became a cleric of Tempus. I'd rather not rename the artifact, as it's become part of the campaign's history.


A few minor issues... giving an ally a small AC bonus that lasts one turn is not really an impressive ability (unless it's an interrupt).

A +3 to +4 bonus to AC and Reflex? How so?


Also, "-2 penalty unless you're near an ally" isn't really much of a penalty

Fair enough. Would replacing "within 5 squares" with "adjacent to" be more appropriate?


"forcing the owner to spend a healing surge for an ally" is actually helpful rather than a penalty.


The "doesn't like you" power is too friendly. And it converts healing surges into HP, which is an advantage.

On reflection, you're both right. Would making it a 2 for 1 surge swap address the issue. Remember that the artifact is not trying to punish the wielder, simply force him to act as a guardian.


Personally, I'd change the name. Don't be temptin' me with Elric goods and then not show!

Sorry for the confusion. I'm not a Moorcock/Elric reader, so it's entirely a coincidence :smallwink:

Kurald Galain
2009-06-24, 04:37 PM
A +3 to +4 bonus to AC and Reflex? How so?
Because it most likely won't stop one attack, certainly not more. If you have to use it in advance, you have no way of knowing whether someone might want to attack you, and they know you've activated the ability so they may just decide to attack someone else instead. This is why Shield (a rather low-powered spell, and an encounter ability) is an interrupt: you can use it after the DM has told you that somebody is hitting you. Otherwise, it would be a mostly worthless spell, given its one-turn duration.


Fair enough. Would replacing "within 5 squares" with "adjacent to" be more appropriate?
More appropriate, yes. Much of a penalty, no. The point with -2 penalties (and +2 bonuses) to attack rolls is that most of the time, they don't matter, because you would have hit anyway (or would have missed anyway) regardless of the bonus.


Remember that the artifact is not trying to punish the wielder, simply force him to act as a guardian.
Okay, in that case, how about this: the artifact forces the wielder to use his next move action to end up next to the guy he's supposed to be protecting.

Yakk
2009-06-24, 04:45 PM
On reflection, you're both right. Would making it a 2 for 1 surge swap address the issue. Remember that the artifact is not trying to punish the wielder, simply force him to act as a guardian.If the wielder dies because he refuses to sacrifice himself to save another, then someone more worthy may pick up the weapon.

Hence "you take damage meant for another". You protect your ally, at the cost of damage to yourself.

Such a power, used at the player's discretion, would be a neat one at a higher concordance.

Mercenary Pen
2009-06-24, 06:22 PM
I'm wondering whether a useful choice of power for your artifact might be this:

power (encounter) standard action. Pick one ally who has taken damage from an enemy. That character gains a +2 to all defences until the start of his next turn. In addition, you may mark one monster that did damage to the chosen ally since your last turn.