Can Roy ever top O-Chul as The Ultimate Fighter now?

[Freelance Henchman]

Following the awesomeness displayed in the last few strips, I'm wondering if Roy (as the Hero of the story) can ever top him now. Roy just got relegated to "kinda badass" now (his valiant attempt at striking down Xykon in-flight on the undead dragon notwithstanding) while O-Chul will remain for me the epitome of toughness. The Giant will have his hands full writing Roy into an equally tough situation where he emerges this triumphantly.

[TheBST]

Well, O-Chul ranks Roy in terms of 'toughness', but that's about it. He doesn't seem have any skill as a diplomat (low CHA), leader, strategist etc. that we've seen so far- everything a party leader needs. Force alone isn't enough.

[theinsulabot]

roy isnt the ultimate fighter, he is (arguably, as there are still those praying he never gets back, the heathens) the ultimate hero of this story. which means he wont just need to be tough, which he is, he will also need to be clever, which he is, he will need to be a great leader, which he....is kind of hit or miss with, but look what he is working with.

i mean, it may not of worked out well for him, and i have personally expressed my extremely uncomplimentary views on his mindset, but roy did jump on the back of an undead dragon in a desperate bid to solo an epic level lich when he was cruising around 14 or so.

in the words of true lies, ballsy. stupid, but ballsy

[SnowballMan]

Who ever said that Roy was the Ultimate Fighter?

Just because this is Roy's story, doesn't mean there cannot be people more awesome then him in it.

[Callista]

Exactly! Roy's schtick has never been "I'm the strongest". He's a leader first and foremost, and in his team there are all those different personalities he's got to juggle. A bigger bonus is that he's an imperfect character, with a lot of flaws; and at the same time he's someone who really, really wants to do the right thing. O-Chul is too mature to make a good main character; when have we ever seen our favorite tough-as-nails paladin agonize over a decision or make a mistake (especially a moral one)?

You simply can't have a main character who has already learned most of what life has to teach him; not unless you want to verge on mary-sue territory. A secondary character, yeah, you can do that. Heck, most "mentor" characters are supposed to be that way. But not the main character. You can't tell a story with static characters, near as well as you can tell it with characters who come out of the story different than when they came into it.

[keeganknorr]

Roy can top O-Chul as ultimate fighter because O-chul is a paladin :smallwink:

[Silverraptor]

Roy can top O-Chul as ultimate fighter because O-chul is a paladin :smallwink:

Oh, nice one!:smallamused:

[theinsulabot]

Oh, nice one!:smallamused:

he was a fighter for 12 years

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html

[Silverraptor]

he was a fighter for 12 years

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html

Ahhhh, but he's not a pure palidin.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Following the awesomeness displayed in the last few strips, I'm wondering if Roy (as the Hero of the story) can ever top him now. Roy just got relegated to "kinda badass" now (his valiant attempt at striking down Xykon in-flight on the undead dragon notwithstanding) while O-Chul will remain for me the epitome of toughness. The Giant will have his hands full writing Roy into an equally tough situation where he emerges this triumphantly.

Well, I guess often there is more to the main hero then just toughness or being the best fighter - especially in team based situations, more so with a team as varied as the Order of the Stick.

Being well-rounded is what I am getting out.

Roy shouldn't and wont try to out-badass O-Chul, because that would lessen them both. O-Chul has been in a very challenging situation and he rose to the challenge superbly and in awesome fashion. Roy has to be more consistent over a long period of time, and deal with the mundane, weird (well, with Elan around..) and challanging.

However as much as I love Hinjo I will say this - I think O-Chul out Paladins him as leader perhaps (even with fewer Paladin levels). O-Chul has shown patience, strength, maturity, wisdom and perseverance far beyond what Hinjo has had a chance to display.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Well...O-Chul's lack of Charisma wouldn't make him a very good leader. While he has tremendous strength of character, his inability to project that in a social situation would probably lead to disaster. Especially in the Azurite political climate.

I was thinking more as leader of the Paladins, although it is funny that despite the lack of charisma he succeeded in motivating and strengthening the captured Azurites by just doing what O-Chul does (though I guess a hero can just be someone that motivates you, not necessarily someone you want in charge).

Although that is the interesting thing about how charisma is used sometimes. One would think wisdom and intelligence should be primary considerations in a good leader, with charisma third.

[Morgan Wick]

"Roy vs. O-Chul, TONIGHT! On THE ULTIMATE FIGHTER!"

I can guarantee you that Roy will do something at Girard's Gate that will make him the new "compare-him-to-Chuck-Norris" guy.

(Note: Not an actual guarantee.)

[Irenaeus]

I think you need to be on some kind of reality show to be The Ultimate Fighter.

[Piscot]

Following the awesomeness displayed in the last few strips

If you mean by awesomeness:

his escape from the loosen cage and sticking the iron bar into RC's eye on surprise,

or his survival of Xykon's torture -where of course they let him alive for interrogation, or whatever, otherwise they could kill him on instant-

well...ok then, but it doesn't seem so ultimate comparing to Roy to me.
Though I like O-Chul, and will be glad if he kicks ass of the evil team :) Or at least help V escape.

[chiasaur11]

The question is not will Roy top O-Chul, as that is impossible.

The question is how short Greenhilt will fall of that lofty perch.

[Superglucose]

However as much as I love Hinjo I will say this - I think O-Chul out Paladins him as leader perhaps (even with fewer Paladin levels). O-Chul has shown patience, strength, maturity, wisdom and perseverance far beyond what Hinjo has had a chance to display.
Not even close. Hinjo displays leadership qualities anything that O-Chul has shown. We have seen one situation where O-Chul had to lead (these past two comics) but Hinjo has not only been busy saving the lives of his people from his leadership role but also has managed to keep the civilization from fracturing apart.

Even from a basic standpoint of "lives saved by the actions of" O-Chul falls way short, and in terms of "Sheer acts of palidinry" they're pretty close. O-Chul has shown patience, maturity, and wisdom in his dealings with MitD. How did he show these in any of the other scenes we saw him in? Sure, he refused to give up information, but he didn't have any information to give!

Hinjo has been struggling to keep up the law and maintain order over a large group of people who are grumbling and unhappy at the circumstances that caused Hinjo to be leader in the first place. Not to mention the astounding amount of patience and exceptional leadership qualities he has shown when dealing with Elan.

Hinjo has shown that he is a much greater leader, even if O-Chul has shown he is a much greater man.

In any case, didn't Shojo prove that the best leader for Paladins isn't necessarily a Paladin?

-would like this "O-Chul is great therefore Lien and Hinjo suck" trend to end.

[factotum]

However as much as I love Hinjo I will say this - I think O-Chul out Paladins him as leader perhaps (even with fewer Paladin levels). O-Chul has shown patience, strength, maturity, wisdom and perseverance far beyond what Hinjo has had a chance to display.

Maturity is only to be expected, considering O-Chul is considerably older than Hinjo. Patience? Hinjo has managed to put up with Elan for six months, I think he has O-Chul beat in that department too. Perseverance? We haven't seen Hinjo in the same situation O-Chul is, so where has he had a chance to show this? If "perseverance" means "keep the boat at the dock until Haley comes, no matter what" then Hinjo, Durkon, Elan, V, and a couple of hundred Azure City citizens would currently be bloated corpses somewhere out in Azure City bay.

Just being a singular badass does not make one a good leader.

[tKircher]

Roy has a lot of qualities O-Chul doesn't. He's a strategist, leader, brawler, and kind of a chaotic character. Roy also went some 100 strips (don't quote me) using just a piece of wood, instead of a proper weapon.

O-Chul may be venerated at this moment, because of his character being fleshed out a little as a 'good man' instead of a 'Miko paladin', but he's not much compared Roy.

[Haven]

I was thinking more as leader of the Paladins, although it is funny that despite the lack of charisma he succeeded in motivating and strengthening the captured Azurites by just doing what O-Chul does (though I guess a hero can just be someone that motivates you, not necessarily someone you want in charge).

Although that is the interesting thing about how charisma is used sometimes. One would think wisdom and intelligence should be primary considerations in a good leader, with charisma third.

I deleted that when I remembered he was, in fact, leader of the Sapphire Guard. Whoops.

But anyway, Charisma is pretty important in a leader; you have to be able to get people to listen to what you're saying to lead. I think Charisma also covers confidence, which is another important quality for a leader.


Also: the phrase "Can Roy top O-Chul" just makes me think...well...damn you, internet, for ruining my brain. But to answer it: no. D:

[slayerx]

Roy has a lot of qualities O-Chul doesn't. He's a strategist, leader, brawler, and kind of a chaotic character. Roy also went some 100 strips (don't quote me) using just a piece of wood, instead of a proper weapon.


Ok, considering how much damage he can absorb, the thing with the acid breathing shark, duking it out with undead gladiators, and his latest epic of subduing a higher level cleric in two moves with nothing more than a sharp metal bar... i think O'Chul's got the "brawler" aspect down.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Patience? Hinjo has managed to put up with Elan for six months, I think he has O-Chul beat in that department too.

True, although he isn't exactly alone in dealing with Elan. And the entire Order has put up with Elan to some extent for even longer, though some better then others. And that was before he matured somewhat. I still don't think most of the OotS would make good leaders of the paladins despite this.

Personally I think if O-Chul can be a friend to the MitD and work to redeem him (and not because he wanted help escaping or fighting it seems, but simply for the good of it and good in the future) while being held captive through months of unpleasantness in the heart of Team Evils occupation forces he may well have been able to "put up with Elan" if he had been on a boat with him as well.


Perseverance? We haven't seen Hinjo in the same situation O-Chul is, so where has he had a chance to show this?

With the MitD? Overcoming Xykon's death traps again and again even though he knows the same thing is going to happen again and again?

Or do you mean where has Hinjo had a chance to show this? He has persevered for the fleet, despite the resistance of the nobility to his rule, and failing for so long to make much headway in settling his people or finding allies.


If "perseverance" means "keep the boat at the dock until Haley comes, no matter what" then Hinjo, Durkon, Elan, V, and a couple of hundred Azure City citizens would currently be bloated corpses somewhere out in Azure City bay.

No, and O-Chul wouldn't have done that any differently. Perseverance doesn't mean suicidal stubbornness.


Just being a singular badass does not make one a good leader.

I didn't say it did. If I had I would have said "However as much as I love Hinjo I will say this - I think O-Chul out badasses him as leader perhaps. O-Chul has shown badassery far beyond what Hinjo has had a chance to display."

As opposed to what I actually said which was that perhaps, with the wisdom, patience, strength and capacity for perseverance O-Chul has shown that he might out Paladin Hinjo as a leader, specifically of the Paladins.


In any case, didn't Shojo prove that the best leader for Paladins isn't necessarily a Paladin?

Which applies to Hinjo and O-Chul who are both Paladins how? :smallconfused:


-would like this "O-Chul is great therefore Lien and Hinjo suck" trend to end.

I don't think I said anything like that. In fact it started "However as much as I love Hinjo..." - and I like Lien a lot as well.

I was just talking about in terms of leading paladins. And I didn't say certainly, I said perhaps.

[mirth7]

Have to admit I would like to see a graphic novel of O-Chul about his life before the first appearance in this particular story. He is an interesting character.

[Freelance Henchman]

Have to admit I would like to see a graphic novel of O-Chul about his life before the first appearance in this particular story. He is an interesting character.

Yup :smallsmile: When the OOTS books are over I hope The Giant makes some books about the early life of Miko, O-Chul and some of the other NPCs. And a crime comic about the life of that police chief Nale killed would be awesome.

[CallingCtulhu]

O-Chul is the Mr. Rogers of OotS. So, no, Roy is but a pale shadow compared to him :D

(Kudos to who get's the red. :P)

[Calemyr]

The champion stood,
the rest saw their better:
Mister Rogers in a blood soaked sweater.

[cavalier973]

I think the problem with this question is that O-Chul is the ideal hero: he's tough, courageous, and perservering in the face of hopelessness. He's what everyone would want a hero to be. Roy is more of a real-life hero (even though he is a comic strip character): he's unsure at times, tough but not invincible, vulnerable, wise and smart but prone to make mistakes.

O-Chul is what you want, Roy is what you get.

I understand, though, the basis for this question. Roy has been my favorite character for a long time, but since he's stuck as a ghost, his participation is relegated to commentary. O-Chul has recently taken over the role of good action guy (with Belkar being the bad action guy), and he looks a lot better because of it.

On another note, I'm glad that O-Chul seems to be a response to the theory (believed so long ago) that the Giant hates paladins.

[theinsulabot]

On another note, I'm glad that O-Chul seems to be a response to the theory (believed so long ago) that the Giant hates paladins.


hinjo is a good man to. i don't think the giant hates any class, i remember once reading something he posted which was essentially a rant about bad role players who use there class as an excuse to be arrogant, holier then thou jerks. i am fairly confident miko was a take that to those people, not to paladins

[NerfTW]

Just because O-chul has more hit-points (and a higher constitution) doesn't make him a better fighter than Roy, simply a different kind of fighter. Roy put points in INT, meaning he can take more feats that require INT of 14 or more. (or whatever that amount was for stuff like Disarm and such)

O-chul can simply take more damage. It's highly unlikely that he also has a higher INT and STR than Roy without being ridiculous and over the top.

[Ancalagon]

On another note, I'm glad that O-Chul seems to be a response to the theory (believed so long ago) that the Giant hates paladins.

I think that was the "belkar is not evil" fraction again.

The author stated somewhere that Miko was created in a way that many people play and see paladins - which is the way how should NOT be played. We already had quite a number for more liberal paladins (Hinjo and Lien, for example) before we saw much from O'Chul (and I do not mean his underpants).

[Meshakhad]

Roy is probably the better fighter. In terms of pure combat skill, he's gotta be better than O-Chul (given all his feats).

O-Chul is simply incredibly tough. Word of God puts his Con score in the mid-twenties.

Now, if only we could get the two together, they'd be nigh-unstoppable.

[Berserk Monk]

No. O-Chul is supreme.