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Nelith
2009-05-20, 07:32 PM
Suppose, (if you need such an example) I am a lvl 17 Cleric who just got access to the 9th lvl spells. I fight alone, so I don't need to worry about party members (don't question this please :D).

Which would be the wisest choice to make, and why?

TheLogman
2009-05-20, 07:44 PM
Miracle is much better for most usage. Smaller penalties, and better things happen that you'll use more often.

woodenbandman
2009-05-20, 08:03 PM
In combat, miracle. Out of combat, wish. Wish has much more general utility because it's got crafting power. You can craft anything for no gold expenditure, so you basically just ride the XP train and stay level 17-18 forever.

Miracle is great because it costs nothing to use it to replicate spells.

Limited wish is more better, though. 6th level and lower spells are still pretty HAX, and the XP expenditure is way lower than wish's. For raw power, wish beats limited version, but for a bang:buck equation, I give it to limited wish.

Yuki Akuma
2009-05-20, 08:38 PM
The answer is of course Reality Revision.

It's basically Wish, except... you're not limited by the number of 9th level spell slots you have. So as soon as you get it, you can have a +5 inherent bonus to every ability score in two days.

(Well, as soon as you get it and also earn the 150,000 extra experience points.)

Glimbur
2009-05-20, 10:46 PM
Miracle by a landslide. Every casting of Wish costs XP; Miracle only costs XP for some uses.

Vortling
2009-05-20, 11:05 PM
Miracle. Especially if you're a cleric of a good god/goddess because you're not in danger of it being twisted. For general utility with a DM who isn't going to intentionally screw you over wish does have its uses.

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-21, 12:26 PM
I'm confused. How would your cleric be casting Wish?

With a pre-existing character, this choice is probably going to be made for you. Who gets access to both of these spells? Well, Artificers and Warlocks, indirectly.

Yuki Akuma
2009-05-21, 12:33 PM
I'm confused. How would your cleric be casting Wish?

With a pre-existing character, this choice is probably going to be made for you. Who gets access to both of these spells? Well, Artificers and Warlocks, indirectly.

Magic domain with a scroll.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-21, 02:34 PM
I'm confused. How would your cleric be casting Wish?

With a pre-existing character, this choice is probably going to be made for you. Who gets access to both of these spells? Well, Artificers and Warlocks, indirectly.Therefore, Archivists.

Also, Wizards and Sorcerers get Miracle through Arcane Disciple.