V could still ruin it... (spoilers)

[Morgan Wick]

A lot of people thought V was going to ruin O-Chul's conversion of MitD. That now looks unlikely. But his selfishness could lead to him reprising Miko's role at Soon's Gate.

O-Chul chips away at the phylactery. Xykon is too busy hammering at V. If V lets herself get killed it could buy O-Chul enough time to destroy the thing. But V doesn't want a heroic sacrifice, so she says or does something to make Xykon pay attention to the proceedings. Xykon turns his attention to O-Chul, V escapes, Xykon and phylactery are intact, and if Roy hears of it he'll give V a good smack.

[RMS Oceanic]

:smalleek:

I could see V do that, and I think it would be terrible if O-Chul failed to deal any lasting damage to Team Evil as a result.

Of course, fleeing like a common...Commoner would deal another savage blow to V's pride.

[Skeppio]

Selfish, cowardly, and without regard for the well-being of others? Sounds just like Vaarsuvius.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Of course, fleeing like a common...Commoner would deal another savage blow to V's pride.

Well, fleeing like that again, since that would be the 2nd time he has had to retreat from a situation he can't handle.

In Azure City.


Selfish, cowardly, and without regard for the well-being of others? Sounds just like Vaarsuvius.

Although to be fair how badly affected he was by not being able to help (in his own V) more when Azure City fell shows others to register on some level with him.

[Undead Prince]

V could still ruin it? Hmm: Xykon's giving a Bad Guy Speech to a V who is still alive, not helpless, and free to cast any spell he has left on the heavily battered lich.

Unless Xykon's just talking as a free action while powering up some ultimate paralysis spell or his paralyzing touch (which is what he seems to be doing), V could indeed ruin it for Team Evil.

But, back to the OP's suggestion:



A lot of people thought V was going to ruin O-Chul's conversion of MitD. That now looks unlikely. But his selfishness could lead to him reprising Miko's role at Soon's Gate.

O-Chul chips away at the phylactery. Xykon is too busy hammering at V. If V lets herself get killed it could buy O-Chul enough time to destroy the thing. But V doesn't want a heroic sacrifice, so she says or does something to make Xykon pay attention to the proceedings. Xykon turns his attention to O-Chul, V escapes, Xykon and phylactery are intact, and if Roy hears of it he'll give V a good smack.


That is... actually quite an interesting turn of events.

I'd say V is totally being set up for something, with Xykon holding him in the air while O-Chul kicks Redcloak's butt and grabs the phylactery.

One of the things V could still do in his battered state is point out the phylactery sitch to Xykon.

However, a vital detail is missing: even if V manages to get Xykon distracted, he still doesn't have any means of escape. His Fly's dispelled, he can't cast Teleport... Maybe jump out of the hole in the wall and cast Feather Fall (immediate action), then Fly, and hope to outrun the pursuit... Not with the enemy's teleports he won't...

So no, probably no chance of escaping and therefore no point in ratting out O-Chul.

Unless, by doing this V earns brownie points with Xykon and is taken into Team Evil...

But I think that's taking the things too far. OoTS needs a high-level caster, and V seems to have been taught whatever lesson the arc was teaching him, so is ready to reunite with the Order.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens next.

[Lissibith]

I'm with undead prince.

V *could* act in that manner, and I wouldn't want to say absolutely that The Giant won't take that route, but if V DID do as the OP suggested, it would mean this entire arc with V = pretty much nothing. And I can't imagine wasting all those impactful moments by having V undergo absolutely no character growth.

[theinsulabot]

xykon never used a true seeing or detect invisibility spell, even after being informed that might of been a reasonable use of his time by RC, he might not have any prepared today. if V casts a fly or invisibility spell, jumps out the window and quickens out the spell he hadn't already used, then with RC out of the picture its entirely possible he might get clear. i hadn't thought it was feasible until the last strip, because up until this point RC was still around and he would of had the true seeing to spot invisibility (cast earlier) and the presence of mind to immediately dispel any flight spell v cast

[Jaysyn]

xykon never used a true seeing or detect invisibility spell, even after being informed that might of been a reasonable use of his time by RC, he might not have any prepared today. if V casts a fly or invisibility spell, jumps out the window and quickens out the spell he hadn't already used, then with RC out of the picture its entirely possible he might get clear. i hadn't thought it was feasible until the last strip, because up until this point RC was still around and he would of had the true seeing to spot invisibility (cast earlier) and the presence of mind to immediately dispel any flight spell v cast

Pretty sure Quicken (or Auto-Quicken) was Jepthon's feat.

[theinsulabot]

Pretty sure Quicken (or Auto-Quicken) was Jepthon's feat.

you can quicken any spell it just adds 4 (iirc) caster levels onto it. fly is a level 4 spell, v can cast level 7 spells, so he could of prepared a quicken fly spell.

hell, invisibility is just level 2, a 6th level quicken invisibility, a normal fly, v didnt even burn his highest level spell slots and he is well underway in a single round

[ImmortalAer]

you can quicken any spell it just adds 4 (iirc) caster levels onto it. fly is a level 4 spell, v can cast level 7 spells, so he could of prepared a quicken fly spell.

hell, invisibility is just level 2, a 6th level quicken invisibility, a normal fly, v didnt even burn his highest level spell slots and he is well underway in a single round

Only one problem with that ; Does V have it prepared?

[Daefos]

you can quicken any spell it just adds 4 (iirc) caster levels onto it. fly is a level 4 spell, v can cast level 7 spells, so he could of prepared a quicken fly spell.

hell, invisibility is just level 2, a 6th level quicken invisibility, a normal fly, v didnt even burn his highest level spell slots and he is well underway in a single round

All of the spells Vaarsuvius has prepared were prepared when he was still alone on an island, readying to get rid of/kill an imp, and then resume studying. I doubt he was concerned with quickened flight spells (because he doesn't intend to go anywhere) or quickened invisibility spells (because he only needs the bathroom every few weeks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0087.html)).


xykon never used a true seeing or detect invisibility spell, even after being informed that might of been a reasonable use of his time by RC, he might not have any prepared today.

Xykon is a sorcerer. He doesn't prepare spells, he spontaneously casts whatever spell he needs when the need arises.

[Hexen_Hase]

While I don't think it's going to actually happen right away, one of the big "ifs" in my mind with V is how he's going to pay back the IFCC.. he's got about 50 minutes give or take to pay off, and if one pays attention (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html) they don't say when he's got to pay it. V assumes it's post-mortem, but there isn't any indicator to say if that's really the case or not; just that he's got time to spend as a soul-bound minion of his three best fiends.

I'm not sure how the IFCC will factor in, but it seems like oversight for them to not play some part later on, albeit likely not until much later on.

[theinsulabot]

Only one problem with that ; Does V have it prepared?

that is the 64 thousand dollar question isnt it? but v refreshed all of his spell slots when the splice became active, the only spells he himself even might of cast would be a disintegrate or two, so v has all the spell slots available to pull it off. i am not saying he will, but the only barrier i had found up until this point, RC's presence, is gone. if o-chul bought v even one round, if v has the right spells he could make a break for it and have a real shot at getting out with his skinny elfin bum intact

[theinsulabot]

Xykon is a sorcerer. He doesn't prepare spells, he spontaneously casts whatever spell he needs when the need arises.

thats true isnt it, i had forgotten, and he already has a flight spell going. so he casts true seeing or some variant, uses his move action to pursue v and casts dispell magic next round. i think that means v is going to need at least 2 rounds to make good his escape

[Jaysyn]

you can quicken any spell it just adds 4 (iirc) caster levels onto it. fly is a level 4 spell, v can cast level 7 spells, so he could of prepared a quicken fly spell.

hell, invisibility is just level 2, a 6th level quicken invisibility, a normal fly, v didnt even burn his highest level spell slots and he is well underway in a single round

No the hell you can't. You have to have the Quicken Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#quickenSpell) feat.

[Trizap]

well if V sees the Lich's phylactery in O-Chul's hands, whatever mental faculties will probably kick up and go:

I am about to die.
that paladin there is holding the Lich's phylactery.
I have a chance, I should cast disintegrate on the Lich
paladin then can destroy phylactery while Xykon is inside.
no more Lich, it would then be time to make an escape.

V has an int of 18, I'm sure she can logically puzzle this kind of reasoning out.

[theinsulabot]

No the hell you can't. You have to have the Quicken Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#quickenSpell) feat.


oh that is what you mean, misunderstood, well i am inclined to think v has quicken magic, but to be fair, i cant remember off the top of my head ever seeing him actually use quicken out a spell (splice being of course the exception).

i suppose its possible he doesn't, but even for oots that seems like an extremely poor choice. the ability to quicken out even the lower level spells used right can really come in handy (such as, for example a quickened fly or invisibility) especially for an elf apparently solo grinding on an island

[Jaysyn]

oh that is what you mean, misunderstood, well i am inclined to think v has quicken magic, but to be fair, i cant remember off the top of my head ever seeing him actually use it.

i suppose its possible he doesn't, but even for oots that seems like an extremely poor choice. the ability to quicken out even the lower level spells used right can really come in handy (such as, for example a quickened fly or invisibility) especially for an elf apparently solo grinding on an island

Empower, Extend or Maximize Spell are much more useful for an Evoker. V never Quickend a spell until after he soul-spiced.

[theinsulabot]

Empower, Extend or Maximize Spell are much more useful for an Evoker. V never Quickend a spell until after he soul-spiced.


have we ever seen v use one of those either?

[Jaysyn]

have we ever seen v use one of those either?

I was wrong, V does have Quicken (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html)Spell. He also has Empower & Maximize (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95005) Spell

[kalkyrie]

Xykon has only a limited *choice* of spells per level. I think about 4 per level. He can cast any of those 'at will' though.

This means Xykon may not have See Invisible or True Seeing as spell choices (sub-optimal, but feasible for a power mad lich with a pet cleric to do the spotting).

Invisibility by V could work here. Of course that would lead to him being impotent as a friendly paladin gets slaughtered in Azure City, again. Possible moment of redemption though if he doesn't run.

[theinsulabot]

I was wrong, V does have Quicken (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html)Spell. He also has Empower & Maximize (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95005) Spell

apparently v felt still or silent spell were wastes of his valuable feats. but as i was wrong about xykon's spell slots because apparantly the fine and subtle differences of the class that actually HAS them and the class that doesn't elude me, i still think v would need an extra round to get clear, because he is going to need to gain enough distance (presumably toward the city below) to get out of xykon's line of site. the goblins in the city wouldn't really matter because of invisibility, but if xykon gets a dispel off its game over

[Zherog]

Xykon has only a limited *choice* of spells per level. I think about 4 per level.

Depends on the spell level. In some cases, he'll only know one spell of a given level.


He can cast any of those 'at will' though.

Not true at all. Sorcerers have a limited number of spells per day for each spell level. They can cast whatever spell they want in those slots, but it's still a finite number. (and not a very large number in some cases).

[Zevox]

Pretty sure Quicken (or Auto-Quicken) was Jepthon's feat.
Doubtful. Jephton was a Sorcerer, not a Wizard. He can't quicken spells with the normal Quicken Spell feat, and the epic Automatic Quicken Spell feat prerequisites the non-epic feat. Theoretically he may have taken the non-epic feat in anticipation of taking the epic one... but I wouldn't bet on it, given the non-epic feat is useless to him except as a prerequisite for the epic one, and it isn't like he had any guarantee he'd become epic during his lifetime.


you can quicken any spell it just adds 4 (iirc) caster levels onto it. fly is a level 4 spell, v can cast level 7 spells, so he could of prepared a quicken fly spell.
You're right, V could prepare it (because Fly is 3rd-level, not 4th - if it were 4th, she couldn't as far as we know, because she has never demonstrated the ability to use 8th-level spells; and its a 4 spell levels increase, not caster levels). But why would she? She has only 3 7th-level slots, why use one on a quickened version of a low-level buff rather than a powerful high-level spell? (Hell, if the splice just restored the spells she had prepared earlier that day rather than let her choose new ones, we know she don't, because we know her three 7th-level spells for that day were Forcecage, Prismatic Spray, and Grasping Hand.)

Zevox

[hamishspence]

Except in non-core sources like Tome And Blood (has Arcane Preparation feat to allow sorcerers to utilize Quicken spells). Which has possibly contributed the old Orb spells to OoTS- Tsusiko uses them- the names match the old versions.

Automatic Quicken Spell is in SRD and Epic handbook but not DMG.
It was nerfed heavily in Complete Arcane- cut to automatically quickening 0-1st level spells, +1 level for each subsequent time you take the feat.

[The MunchKING]

Not true at all. Sorcerers have a limited number of spells per day for each spell level. They can cast whatever spell they want in those slots, but it's still a finite number. (and not a very large number in some cases).

6 per level Plus CHA Bonus spells for Xykon.

[Volkov]

Sorcerers get more spells per day than wizards with the same primary spellcasting score modifier and level, even specialist wizards. A level 20 sorcerer with a charisma of 28 has more spells than a level 20 Evoker with a intelligence of 28.

[Faramir]

I just had a horrible thought which would be consistent with what V has been through so far.

1. V prepares to try and strike at Xykon
2. The fiends take a round of the time they're owed to have him kill O-Chul instead.
3. Xykon accepts this as apology and welcomes V to Team Evil or simply imprisons her rather than torturing/killing her..
4. V has to live with the fact that he has not only killed O-Chul but possibly saved Xykon's unlife.

[Kaytara]

Selfish, cowardly, and without regard for the well-being of others? Sounds just like Vaarsuvius.

Where are you getting "cowardly" from? This is the same elf that didn't flinch when nearly mashed to a bloody pulp by Titanium Elementals and was completely willing to accept being killed for revenge by an ancient dragon, right?

The only cowardice I can see here is if we interpret it to mean being afraid to face your own weakness, which should suggest that Vaarsuvius would be afraid to run away from the battle rather than afraid to stay there.

[theinsulabot]

You're right, V could prepare it (because Fly is 3rd-level, not 4th - if it were 4th, she couldn't as far as we know, because she has never demonstrated the ability to use 8th-level spells; and its a 4 spell levels increase, not caster levels). But why would she? She has only 3 7th-level slots, why use one on a quickened version of a low-level buff rather than a powerful high-level spell? (Hell, if the splice just restored the spells she had prepared earlier that day rather than let her choose new ones, we know she don't, because we know her three 7th-level spells for that day were Forcecage, Prismatic Spray, and Grasping Hand.)

Zevox


your right, at least, that is how i interpreted the splice rule set, he refreshed the spells he already had prepared that day, so him having a quickened fly is out of the question, but as he cast fly on himself to escape the black dragon, so we know he had at least one prepared for the day.

however, the more i think about it, the more i am inclined to think he probably DOESN'T have a quickened invisibility up his sleeve, because while not a terrible use for a 6th level slot, because combined with fly its the next best thing to being able to teleport out, and V is alone and therefor should be mindful of is own defense, because if he did, it seems like he might of used it to escape the ABD. i suppose it is however possible, he had figured the force cage would do the job.

we do know from the azure city arc v isnt adverse to keeping a regular invisibility spell on hand for emergencies

[Southern Cross]

Dragons' acute senses enable them to sense invisible beings,so V wouldn't bother casting invisibility.