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Shinizak
2009-05-22, 09:41 AM
We all know how horrible and sadistic the Tomb of Horrors was, I propose we go about creating our own dungeon JUST as sadistic and impossible (if not more).:smallamused:

The theme of the dungeon is Hidden Menace/Lethal Environment.

So here's what we have:

THE OVERALL DUNGEON

Overall dungeon:
A Greater Curse is in effect that causes anything teleported within the dungeon to age 1 year per 5 feet

Summoning and calling creatures is allowed, however all summoned creatures are under no compulsion to serve the caster as it normally would.

Scrying, etherealness, and any other ways to bypass or obtain information through magical means is impossible.

1ST LEVEL



The first level is primarily made up of Tucker's Kobalds. (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/)

shadzar
2009-05-22, 09:50 AM
Behind a crag in the cliff lies a path that leads to [insert Mcguffin]. A few feet into the distance the absence of light becomes dense.

(DM Notes: The entrance has a hallway 100 feet long, and daylight stops reaching in about 20 feet inward. The remaining 80 feet of the hall is covered from floor to ceiling with green slime. An old wooden door seems to be sitting at the end of the hallway.)

TheCountAlucard
2009-05-22, 09:51 AM
All righty, then...

To start off, remind the PCs to go to the bathroom every now and then. There should even be bathrooms located in the dungeon. If they don't, they die from their bladders bursting. If they do, have them make Fortitude saves to avoid having that one fish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candiru) swim up their urethras.

Also, the bathrooms are enchanted with an effect that changes the user's gender with every visit, and race every other visit.

Bulwer
2009-05-22, 09:55 AM
All righty, then...

To start off, make sure the PCs go to the bathroom regularly. When they do, have them make Fortitude saves to avoid having that one fish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candiru) swim up their urethras.

Also, the bathrooms are enchanted with an effect that changes the user's gender with every visit, and race every other visit.

Oh gods, that one fish. I didn't click. Incidentally, I'd call that a Reflex save to avoid its... entrance, and a Fort to prevent ill effects. And then a Will to avoid passing out from the sheer horror of that thing's existence*. And that's to say nothing of what happens when you fail those saves.

*its existence in your urethra, that is.

On topic, I think one of the Tomb's failings is an inability to lull people into a false sense of security. This should have some encounters that look like straight combats, so as to fool players into thinking they can win.

Shinizak
2009-05-22, 10:22 AM
How about this, getting into the dungeon is relatively easy, however getting out is a problem. For instance:

the staff (or whatever) has a contingency spell placed upon it that activates ALL the other spells and opens up new corridors (all of which is made of adamantium). the spell can be deactivated, but if the rouge tries a suggestion spell forces her to make the DC HIGHER

Dogmantra
2009-05-22, 10:35 AM
Why not just roll a d%, 01-99 is a horrible and gory death, and a 00 is that the characters just get a nasty splinter. Same results, much less time wasted.

Another_Poet
2009-05-22, 10:45 AM
the theme of Tomb of Horrors is lethal traps, many with only a single hard-to-guess solution.

What should the theme of this dungeon be?

-Lethal traps
-lethal environment
-Time limit (get out in x hours or be destroyed)
-maze or teleports that make the layout confusing
-turning the PCs against each other
-hidden menace (ie you don't know about it till it's too late - disease, curse, etc)

Obviously, some of all of these can be used but which one should be the main theme?

ap

Shinizak
2009-05-22, 10:49 AM
I would say a hidden menace with heavy helping of lethal environment.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-05-22, 10:55 AM
To prevent "Tomb Breakers", you need a ward that prevents summoned monsters.

To prevent Scry and Die, you need a ward against teleportation, scrying, ethreal jaunting, and the like.

shadzar
2009-05-22, 10:57 AM
I would say a hidden menace with heavy helping of lethal environment.

Then you will need a pit with perpetual darkness cast in it filled with rot grubs (or a Gelatinous Cube). :smallsmile:

The Glyphstone
2009-05-22, 10:59 AM
Let's put it on a demiplane with heavily restricted interplanar travel. No connections to the Astral or Ethereal planes means no Jaunting and no Teleportation. From there, it's a simple step to say that the place is completely planarly isolated, preventing any sort of summons or calling effect from occuring.

Another_Poet
2009-05-22, 11:17 AM
I don't think there should be a restriction on summoning monsters.

Instead, all summoned monsters must make an insanely high will save or turn against whoever summoned them. If they do turn against the summoner they are hit with numerous buff spells, and the summoner must make a Spellcraft check or lose the ability to dismiss the spell early.

If they somehow make their save and stay within the control of the summoner, the summoned creature is instead hit with a Disintegration.

* * * *

For teleport, I would greatly respect a curse that ages all teleported creatures and objects 1 year per 5' teleported within the dungeon. PCs may not notice the first few times but then when they take ageing effects (or see their spoilt rations and crumbling gear)... panic time.

For Planeshift I would treat all creatures who planeshift in as if they are summoned creatures. Each character must make a will save; on a failure they get buffed and turn on their friends, on a success they remain in control of themselves but get hit with a Disintegration effect instead of buff spells.

hehehehehe... bring on the next group!

Dogmantra
2009-05-22, 11:22 AM
Dominate person traps on everything.

Even the air. You breathed in how many times? Make 500 will saves.

Plus, have traps that appear to be traps, and don't actually do anything until they're disarmed, when they fire disintegrates.

Starscream
2009-05-22, 11:26 AM
Just play any and all monsters intelligently. It makes all the difference. Tucker's Kobolds are living proof.

The Glyphstone
2009-05-22, 11:26 AM
For Summoning...and how is that different than simply banning summons? Either way, it means no summoned creatures will be used, but simply preventing the summoning is a much less obnoxious path than "loL ur Summonz kill you or die". It's hamhanded and clumsy...maybe a better option would be a permanent "free will' effect over the entire area? Creatures can be summoned, called, etc., but there is no way to automatically exert control over them? They have to be bargained with or paid off, and it's going to be hard to convince something to be your personal trapspringer. As a side effect, this could make Charm and Dominate effects nonfunctional.

Teleportation = Aging is more interesting, though - but what happens when you have something that's immune to aging, or simply has no maximum age?

Shinizak
2009-05-22, 11:35 AM
maybe it's not an actual aging affect so much as a rotting effect. even metal will eventually break down....

Asheram
2009-05-22, 11:48 AM
For the laughs. Make the dungeon a sentient demiplane that enjoys "toying" with the inhabitants, created by an evil artificer that had a bit too much time on his hands. ;)

Xallace
2009-05-22, 11:57 AM
I suggest a room laden with all manner of pressure-plates and hard-to-spot but easy-to-activate triggers. These "triggers" cause all sorts of noise, most which seem to indicate something is about to happen, but then do nothing close to lethal. Holes open up in walls, as if to shoot arrows... and nothing comes out. Pit traps thrust open about an inch. The ceiling falls a foot, maybe.

But for every trap they seem to trigger in this room, it awakens a Dream Larva two rooms over.

Alternatively, have all of the traps actually trigger gold. Lots and lots of gold. Start slow at first, and let the PCs rake it into their bags.
But there is a LOT of gold. So much gold that the room starts to fill up. Characters with poor Reflex saves get crushed under the weight. Characters who can't find a way out (and there won't be many, if any) eventually suffocate as the room fills to the top.

About an hour later a giant hole opens in the floor, filters out the bodies from the gold, and down floats a little sign that says "Gotcha!"

TheCountAlucard
2009-05-22, 12:13 PM
Do I need to say it again?

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa100/TheCountAlucard666/Candiru.jpg

Better yet, make them Celestial, so that they have the mental capacity to make decisions based on right and wrong... and then make them Half-Fiends, so they make the most evil decision possible and possess the ability to fly. :smalleek:

Shinizak
2009-05-22, 01:05 PM
What about monster? I personally enjoy the vile wight from the BoVD.

Radar
2009-05-22, 01:19 PM
There is a much cleaner and less debatable way to deal with summons abuse - you just have to put trap triggers a bit further from the trap itself.

For example: a corridor with various typical traps here and there. Near the end, there is a trigger that activates a poison gas trap (or a good old rolling boulder - the Run feat or monk's class features would be good for something for once :smallwink:), that is filling the corridor starting from the entrance and locks the door too. If the corridor is about 100ft long, then summoned creature will trigger the trap, while the party is inside anyway due to limited range of summons.

This sort of trap is valid even without considering summoned creatures - it works on telescopic 21ft poles too.

The key to preventing optimisation, is IMO in variety of threats. Make a dungeaon, in which no single strategy can beat everything. Mix twisted mechanical traps with hidden glyphs and some monsters trying to ambush the party.

Going ethereal or teleporting is already covered. There is also a neat way to deal with AMF: some traps can be held back by permanent spells - suppress the magic, then they go off. Floor held by Wall of Force or acid vats not flooding a room because of Reverse Gravity - there are numerous ways to use it. And there can be a trap of AMF here and ther too for the sake of it.

I am also against disarming traps just by rolling for Disable Device - it's boring. Players should come up with a plan on how to deal with a particular room and such.

Ravens_cry
2009-05-22, 01:36 PM
The Gygax has reincarnated into the forms of my forum mates!
Oh, the horror, the everlasting horroring horror or horrornes!:smalleek:

Shinizak
2009-05-22, 01:41 PM
Reading again on the Tucker's Kobald idea, I like the idea of a quick way to get to the lower levels(like the elevator shaft). However it should also have a heavy deterrent for those who want to get in and out without actually playing the game, like a bunch of level draining wraiths or something.

Shinizak
2009-05-22, 04:15 PM
I have another question actually, what level should we make this dungeon?

shadzar
2009-05-22, 04:24 PM
what level of PCs should it be for, or what level shoud it be and 1st level PCs encounter it?

Shinizak
2009-05-22, 04:26 PM
I mean, what level should the party level going in be? or is that something you determine afterwords?

shadzar
2009-05-22, 04:37 PM
I mean, what level should the party level going in be? or is that something you determine afterwords?

Are they actually expected to survive? :smallconfused:

Shinizak
2009-05-22, 04:42 PM
Of course, by a low margin, but still survive. (even Gygax created a way out for his abomination)

potatocubed
2009-05-22, 05:18 PM
The original Tomb of Horrors was so arbitrarily deadly that character level had very little impact on your chance of survival. Because most of the traps were no-save-instant-death your level was irrelevant. Apart from... one combat, I think, a 1st-level character could theoretically do it with a heaping helping of luck.

Artanis
2009-05-22, 05:54 PM
Here's an idea for a source of inspiration: have you ever watched Ninja Warrior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_warrior)? Take the first stage or two, replace the water with various pit- magma- and/or spike-related hazards, and make them fight skeletons on top of it.

Moose Fisher
2009-05-22, 06:06 PM
Can we also make the dungeon a Mind Screw?
Add a few death traps, and this game (http://www.experimentalgameplay.com/game.php?g=560) would work perfectly!

Shinizak
2009-05-22, 06:37 PM
But how would one go about incorporating that into the game?

Lolzords
2009-05-22, 07:26 PM
Something like a bear-trap under a rug. The players pull off the rug and disarm it...

... and as they go to pick it up the walls open and FIRE bursts out.

Also, one pressure pad drops honey on them, another one spits a load of fire ants out the wall. ::smallsmile:

Shinizak
2009-05-23, 05:57 PM
These all seem to easy... we need something that ISN'T a giant middle finger to the party while still keeping them scared ****less...

Dogmantra
2009-05-23, 06:28 PM
There is a door. It does not appear locked, trapped or anything. Hand a note to the first person who goes through it saying something to the effect of "you must betray the party in the next hour, or instantly die." Hand notes to the rest of them too, saying whatever, personalised, so that they don't think anything's up.

Shinizak
2009-05-23, 06:31 PM
I like it , where do you think it should go?

Dogmantra
2009-05-23, 06:34 PM
Uh... perhaps on a door to a lower level?
Between the first and second, perhaps?

Radar
2009-05-24, 07:37 AM
There is a door. It does not appear locked, trapped or anything. Hand a note to the first person who goes through it saying something to the effect of "you must betray the party in the next hour, or instantly die." Hand notes to the rest of them too, saying whatever, personalised, so that they don't think anything's up.
Good one. Fluff-wise it could be, that ethereal plane (or maybe shadow plane) is slightly more connected with the material one then usual, so PCs "hear voices" or see things that aren't there and are not illusions. It could be an overheard piece of ethereal creatures conversation or they can mess with the PCs heads on purpose.

KjeldorMage
2009-05-24, 08:59 AM
High Level characters stand not a chance to my "Halloween 2008" adventure.

It starts out as a crisp autumn day like most horror movies, the PCS are getting a parade for them for how well they have helped the kingdom fight their enemies. Everything is peaches and f-in cream until...

...a crazy hobo runs into the middle of the parade and takes out a pouch and blows powder on their faces. They all take fortitude saves (DC 35). Even if they fail, they feel nothing and they can kill the hobo but they all start to feel drowsy...

...The next thing they know they are in a clerics hospital being told that they have a rare disease which was an experimental disease where the antidote. lies in the "abandoned city". They have 30 hours to live and the city is a 12 hour hike away. The antidote is in the hospital there. They are given a potion which numbs the effects of the disease which they must take EVERY HOUR!

(que long forest walking adventure with gooey subplotage and constant needs for rest due to the disease effects, where the nice crisp fall weather turns to nasty, pseudo-November weather).

As the trip wears on, the lack of sleep nags at them. Spell casters start losing their spells. The lack of sleep is a killer.

They usually can get to the abandoned city within 18 hours. It makes them feel like they are about to slam dunk this. (Its allows you more time for the suspense inside.

Inside the city are the shambling, vomit spewing, corpses of the denizens. They have to successfully navigate getting over the city wall and avoiding being torn to shreds by zombies as their ability checks are starting to fall due to sleep deprivation.

If they make it to the hospital, which they should. They find the door wide open. The hospital looks like a medieval version of a normal hospital. No traps, just on told NSFW horrors await. They must lock themselves in to avoid the wrath of the zombies, but this act is like locking oneself in with a serial killer.

The tall building is narrow but each step is filled with chilling terror so much that character have to start taking fortitude and will saves from either puking or running away and puking, or siting in a corner and rocking back and forth.

Sprinkle in a resurrected nemesis from their lower levels who meets them somewhere in the middle of the hospital. This nemesis had to fight their way through the hell planes to get back to the mortal realm and is all jacked up and pissed. (In our adventure it was a Lawful good cleric-fighter from the oppressive lawful good empire the campaign was set in. Let's just say he joined the dark side which helped to add to the evil and scariness of the campaign)

Between remembering to take potions and the mental strain of this place. They have to search through the "the horror hospital" to find the antidote, which is actually right near the door but the initial shock of the what they see there pushes them away.

Eventually they find the person who created this horror town, a maladjusted physcian turned Necro. But they find him by accident and have to chase him into his office. His office unlocks their greatest fears come true, *which I have them right down and hand to me at the beginning of the adventure*. Being weary and poisoned and near death they must find a way to break the spell they are under even though they have no knowledge of it. The spell lasts for 2d20 turns and as such the PC's are only slightly harmed, ala Freddie Kruger style, during it but it allows the Necromancer to prepare his spells and his office for one final showdown. There are ways of knowing, not being able to read during dreams, accidentally rolling over, (the dream spell makes them fall asleep right on the floor), etc. If they can realize they are in a dream, they can awake themselves on a will save of DC 15 and try to awake the others. This worked out well because you can see your pals getting cut in the sleep and choked and other horrible fates.

If they make it through and find they antidote. They can rest in the hospital if the Necro is dead, if they find the antidote and the Necro is not dead, they can't rest there and will have to try and avoid the zombies and escape the city.

One final thing, the antidote is in a very breakable container, so always have a back up if they manage to break it in their weakened frantic state. Demonic healing pacts especially works, (especially for thos paladins and clerics who have to accept it or die).

ChrisDemilich
2009-05-25, 01:23 AM
This is the Demiplane my 23 Level Demilich created to protect his Phylactery.

Osmisios

The plane has reverse gravity, causing anything to fall towards the outer surface of the demiplane. The demiplane is 360 feet in diameter(180 foot radius from 1 casting of Genesis).

The center of the Demiplane contains a smooth iron ball with a Diameter of 120 feet. The sphere is smooth, and the surface is nearly impossible to cling to. A successful climb check DC 65(35 of which is from the weather conditions) allows one to cling to the sphere for 1 round. There are no apparent openings, and the only entrance is through a permanent phase door, located at the Northern-most pole of the sphere.

The entire plane has no oxygen, and is instead filled with poisonous gas, which deals 1d4 con damage each round. The lack of breathable air can also cause suffocation.

The entire demiplane has extreme cold conditions, dealing 1d6 lethal damage each hour, or each round for characters without winter clothing. It also deals 1d4 non-lethal damage on a failed Fort save each hour.

The outer section of the demiplane has constant hurricane force winds blowing throughout.

Once inside the sphere, the corridor is 10 feet wide, and 10 feet tall. The corridor spirals for a total length of 1 statute mile (5,280 feet or 1056 squares) stretched out. The entire passage way is filled with mindless undead, with each ten feet of passage containing 1d6+1 skeletons or zombies. There are also 18 wraiths clustered together at the halfway point.

There are traps in the corridor as well. 2 Crushing room traps, located at the quarter and 3/4 mile marks, 1 crushing wall trap at the 1/8 mile mark, 2 poisoned spike pit traps, located at the 3/5 mile mark, and the 4/5 mile mark, and 1 drop ceiling trap 100 feet in from the entrance.

At the end of the corridor are two rooms. The first room contains 2 iron golems, 13 morghs, and 1 elder black pudding.

The final room is the vault, where my Demilich keeps his phylactery. The pedestal contains a permanent symbol of death. The room is surrounded by a permanent force wall.

The interior of the sphere is warded against teleportation magic by epic level spells. DC to overcome caster level would be 85 (increased by adding factors). So chances are the party will not be teleporting in.

If you have an epic level group, try running them through this gauntlet. Also, since the demilich keeps all his magic items in the vault for phylactery transference, they can pick up some nice items.

Also, feel free to add more traps, or harder monsters. This was all that my character could afford. I ended up 2 levels behind my party because I went through the trouble of putting this all together, from all the experience lost making the demiplane, and the epic spells to guard it, and the permanent spells, and the golems, etc etc..

rokar4life
2009-05-25, 02:10 AM
random plane shifting doors the first time each door in the dungeon is opened, one leading to "# people sitting around a table wearing bright, finely made clothes, they seem to be planning something, and one is speaking in a strange version of common, and rolling something against the table." not deadly, but it's funny, and you could make every other section on the character sheets explosive runes.

TheCountAlucard
2009-05-25, 02:15 AM
So chances are the party will not be teleporting in...I can see it being done by non-epic characters. Pair off a Greater Consumptive Field with several orphanages, and the caster level check is easy.