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ondonaflash
2009-05-22, 09:17 PM
Okay so as we've seen, it seems like every dwarf, ever, in the history of eternity was a gruff sort, who, deep down had a heart of gold, and could be relied upon by his companions to come through in any situation.

That's boring.

I want to see some NEW ideas for how to roleplay dwarves. Something that isn't done to death. Try to keep the ideas broad, and easily applicable to different characters with different backstories, basically apply character traits, tics and quirks. It should be fun.

My idea is that a dwarf, rather than being kind to his friends could, instead, see them more as a means to accrue more wealth, leaving them to die if he could run off with the money, to bring back to his clan.

Or the dwarf could be a goofy sort, putting friends and enemies off guard with his folksy charm and provincial mannerisms. But underneath the goofy facade is a hardened and well trained master of combat, the goofball act a careful ruse to lower the defenses of those around him.

And of course the classic Dwarven Merc. More concerned with the next drink, meal, and wench than anything else, and seeing each job as a means to those ends. He's world weary, selfish, and distant, but at the very least can be relied to complete the job at hand, though he won't hesitate to bash your skull in if that's the next paying job to come his way.

As you can see some of these are a little cliched, my hope is to come up with something a bit more than that and to get a good list of numerous ways to roleplay dwarves.

Think about dwarven criminals and what they are like. What could encourage a dwarf to pursue magic maybe? What about dwarves brought up in a human society? I want to explore all these different characters.

Xallace
2009-05-22, 09:20 PM
Dwarven sorcerer. There are a lot of ways you could go about it (exile and whatnot), but I think my favorite way can be summed up like so:

"These sorcerous techniques have been passed down through the Firesoul Clan for GENERATIONS!"
*Sparkle Sparkle*

Berserk Monk
2009-05-22, 09:22 PM
I had an idea for a dwarven swashbuckler awhile back.

kpenguin
2009-05-22, 09:29 PM
One that's a six-feet tall blond that's an excellent fighter, always plays by the book, and loves everybody.

Saph
2009-05-22, 09:34 PM
Okay so as we've seen, it seems like every dwarf, ever, in the history of eternity was a gruff sort, who, deep down had a heart of gold, and could be relied upon by his companions to come through in any situation.

Eh? Since when?

Have a look at the dwarves in The Hobbit, which is pretty much as classic as it gets. They aren't gruff, and they definitely don't have hearts of gold.

- Saph

Faleldir
2009-05-22, 09:38 PM
Well, isn't that kind of the point? Not the stereotype itself, but that dwarves are so lawful and traditional that being called a stereotype is a compliment. They're not honoring their ancestors unless they're dwarven enough to braid their armpit hair! But I see what you're trying to do here. Honestly? You should roleplay whatever you want; deliberately being the opposite of a dwarf is just as bad. Avoid the "exiled from my clan for being too awesome" angle unless you're a Drizzt parody.

Starscream
2009-05-22, 09:43 PM
If you want a non-traditional dwarf, look no further than the Discworld character Giamo Cassanunda. He is beardless, charming, and the second greatest lover in the world (though he tries harder). A count, dashing swordsman, and world class highwayman, Casanunda is spoken of in hushed tones wherever ladies gather in the vicinity of stepladders.

In fact, Discworld "dwarfs" (they are never called dwarves in that series) seem to be a parody of the traditional stereotype, so counterstereotypes are common. Sure, on the surface they seem to be hard working, law abiding gold obsessed miners, but get a few drinks in one and you'll have a berzerker on your hands that puts any D&D orc barbarian to shame.

Then there's the issue of Cheery Littlebottom. Apparently, female dwarfs look, act, and think exactly like males on the Disc. Cheery runs counter to her cultural norm by wearing dresses, makeup and earrings, and it's starting to catch on. Still has a beard you could lose a ferret in, though.

And then, as KPenguin mentioned, there is Carrot. Yup. Carrot.

Ravens_cry
2009-05-22, 09:53 PM
As far as Monks being well. . .good, Dwarves would make very good ones, especially in Pathfinder. Bonuses in two important Monkery stats and a penalty to a dump stat? It's a Good Thing.
Picture that, dwarf with shorts tied around waist with a rope, a bandages around fist and feet, beard braided, and a stout arm and belly.
Actually, that sounds like a fun character to play.
When and if Dalna the half-orc Paladin dies, we will see about that.

Coidzor
2009-05-22, 09:54 PM
Hmm, I'm reminded of Pukel, the Dwarven Cook-Fighter that spontaneously retrained into Druid during the Cleric Quintet due to how ****ing insane he went over the course of the adventure.

herrhauptmann
2009-05-22, 09:54 PM
"These sorcerous techniques have been passed down through the Firesoul Clan for GENERATIONS!"
*Sparkle Sparkle*

You... That's just.... Have you noticed that the manga seems to have almost stopped its release schedule in the last 6 months?



To the OP, dwarfs can really be any character type, just like every other race/class combo. Give a dwarf a personality that is stereotyped halfling or elf, and you've suddenly got a very unconventional dwarf.

Swooper
2009-05-22, 10:26 PM
Apparently, female dwarfs look, act, and think exactly like males on the Disc.
Worthy of note is the fact that courting, among dwarfs on the Disc, involves very carefully trying to find out whether this other dwarf they like is indeed of the opposite sex. Since, you know, asking is considered bad form. :smallamused:

Rapidwhirl
2009-05-22, 10:35 PM
Okay so as we've seen, it seems like every dwarf, ever, in the history of eternity was a gruff sort, who, deep down had a heart of gold, and could be relied upon by his companions to come through in any situation.

That's boring.... I love how every other thread here has something to do with TVTropes.

You are not alone, "ondonaflash". All our Dwarves are the same (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurDwarvesAreAllTheSame).

What you do is create a charcter more or less as you would a human. You want to avoid saying that the entire Dwarven race is just like your character, and not make them follow any other stereotype.

Fortinbras
2009-05-23, 12:50 AM
Dwarves are my favorite race and I've done a lot with them.

My first, most powerfull, and favorite character was fairly standard although I like to think that he was more intelectuall than the steryotype. He was supposed to be a more skillfull and diciplned warrior than the stereotype. Generaly supposed to be a nicer person, skip the gruff exeertior. Also he uses a sword.

His father is a stereotypical merc/barabian who develops into a mature clan lead.

His sister is a sycopath wizard, not quite evil but pretty darn close.

I made his cousin, a cleric of Kord. He is sweet guy with a bad temper, loosly based on R. A. Salvatore's Pikel.

I also make a swashbuckling sword sage, I'm not sure where I'm going with him.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-05-23, 12:57 AM
Eh? Since when?

Have a look at the dwarves in The Hobbit, which is pretty much as classic as it gets. They aren't gruff, and they definitely don't have hearts of gold.

- Saph

This. This is very true. In the campaign setting I'm working on, dwarves are pretty much regarded by the rest of the Empire as selfish *******s. They're good at making things and fighting, but they're also strongly xenophobic and secretive. They've chafed under the Empire's rule, even though it was pretty decent, simply because the dwarves HATE being under the control of a non-dwarf, and they really hated the obligation the Empire placed on them to communicate and even trade with other races. In my universe, dwarves don't just hate elves by calling them pansies. They lynch non-dwarves and pro-Imperials when no one's looking, and the Empire's current weakness is a godsend to them.

chiasaur11
2009-05-23, 01:00 AM
One that's a six-feet tall blond that's an excellent fighter, always plays by the book, and loves everybody.

Well, maybe.

But only if he's a cop. Otherwise the whole thing falls apart.

amanamana
2009-05-23, 02:29 AM
A friend of mine played, in one of my last campaigns, a gold dwarf wizard/cleric of mystra(!)/mystic theurge.
He was an elderly, goofy, friendly and open-handed dwarf! He had no problems with other humanoids, even elves. He was fond of children and treated everyone with less than 200 years as one. He even gave a 18 years old human Mystra church novice 1gp "to buy candy"...:smallbiggrin:
He was developing a big memory problem and really roleplayed that.
He had missing teeth, a big belly and terribly looking beard. He wore classic Mystra garments, in pink and silver! When introducing himself, he used a speech similar to the magician's in the Krull movie, holding his cape in front of him.
Needless to say, dwarfs didn't like him very much. Everyone else loved him! He wasn't even respected in his home village, which renegated its most powerful member.
Besides all that, when a new player decided to try a dwarven defender, he convinced him to be his character's younger son. They started a fantastic relationship in game between the traditionalist son and the misfit father. That was an awesome game, with fantastic players, most of them (him included) dear friends that I miss a lot.:smallsmile:

Trizap
2009-05-23, 02:35 AM
my idea of dwarves that they are actually stealthy backstabbing rogues greedy for gold, using their beards for camouflage and ambushing people underground for money, using their night vision, small size and stealthiness and the darkness of the tunnels to take travelers by surprise, wearing light armor and be dodging whatever comes their way.

hows that for unusual?

Drider
2009-05-23, 03:09 AM
As far as Monks being well. . .good, Dwarves would make very good ones, especially in Pathfinder. Bonuses in two important Monkery stats and a penalty to a dump stat? It's a Good Thing.
Picture that, dwarf with shorts tied around waist with a rope, a bandages around fist and feet, beard braided, and a stout arm and belly.
Actually, that sounds like a fun character to play.
When and if Dalna the half-orc Paladin dies, we will see about that.

Monks can make unarmed attacks with any part of their body...and it'd fit dwarven RP to use their beard as much as possible...


:smallwink:

cupkeyk
2009-05-23, 03:52 AM
Eh? Since when?

Have a look at the dwarves in The Hobbit, which is pretty much as classic as it gets. They aren't gruff, and they definitely don't have hearts of gold.

- Saph

Ditto, iconic dwarves would be Gimli and Flint Fireforge who were both comical father figures.

There is that voluptuously sexy bounty huntress in Kendermore.

My favorite dwarf is Korgan from BG2 who was a CE berserker with a soft spot for children having lost his daughter. There's Grimgnaw from NWN who is gruff and depressing with a heart of coal. That stereotype is not very stereotypical.

derfenrirwolv
2009-05-23, 04:05 AM
Dwarven Wizard. LN. Likes to PLAN. Things out for centuries. It doesn't matter if its good or evil, as long as it works efficiently.

Wide eyed archeologist/geologist "Oh, sorry, i was just examining this beautiful calcium carbonate formation over.. oh, right, beat things with a hammer now"

Stoic. No. theres no heart of gold. Why are you whining you human whimp? Snap the end off the arrow and get back to fighting or put on a skirt and pray you can whelp some REAL men.

Greedy. Sure i like shinies.. oh right, when the going gets tough you can count on me... (to side with the winners and loot your bodies...)

Granpa: These humans are short lived and childish. The elf doesn't have the short lived excuse. You've seen it all, done it all, and every adventure you run accross "Reminds me of the time I...." When the kids do something stupid (and they will) give em the back of the gauntlet like your pappy gave you.

Justyn
2009-05-23, 04:12 AM
You... That's just.... Have you noticed that the manga seems to have almost stopped its release schedule in the last 6 months?

Nope, I haven't noticed at all. (http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/)

Gnorman
2009-05-23, 05:00 AM
Chaotic Neutral Dwarf Beguiler. Likes to charm the pants off of any and all around him. Doesn't give two craps about tradition. Seduces any and all females he can get his grubby little hands on (dwarven women being... you know, bearded). Speaks in a highly eloquent style, speech full of complex adjectives and adverbs. Keeps himself meticulously clean. Refuses to use weapons, as they are somewhat uncouth. Keeps a rapier at his side for appearances. Cyrano de Dwarferac.

ocato
2009-05-23, 05:08 AM
I kind of like how 4e is subtly moving Dwarves away from this by making them ideal for classes like Druid and Shaman. Maybe its just me, but primal nature-based caster doesn't really scream Dwarf. Invoker too, though 'channeler of the God's wrath' is only a half-step off from the traditional Dwarven cleric.

derfenrirwolv
2009-05-23, 05:20 AM
I kind of like how 4e is subtly moving Dwarves away from this by making them ideal for classes like Druid and Shaman. Maybe its just me, but primal nature-based caster doesn't really scream Dwarf. Invoker too, though 'channeler of the God's wrath' is only a half-step off from the traditional Dwarven cleric.


Well, in 3.5 dwarves are one of the best caster classes, despite a penchant for not liking magic in role play terms, their +con is the best stat boost a caster can get from race ( since int/wis bonuses don't exist for core races). Darkvision is unbeatable for targeting foes in the dark (i mean, whenever is it going to be dark in DUNGEONS and dragons) and the +2 to (almost) all saves and another +1 from fort saves either shore up the wizards weak point or send a clerics fort save to the stratosphere.

Slow Movement doesn't hurt a caster (since you're in the back, you want to be in the back, and you want to stay in the back) and you'll be flying everywhere eventualy anyway.

Elves, on the other hand, despite a listed interest in wizardry, are probably the worst class to go into magic. Dex is an OK stat, but 1 less hp per level when you only get a d4? Not good.

The only class that comes close is human, and then only if you use splatbooks so you can take advantage of all the delicious feats.

shadow_archmagi
2009-05-23, 05:32 AM
Suggest you play this game for awhile, and in particular read the lore and player stories.

http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Main_Page

That should get you some reaaallly non traditional dwarves.

daggaz
2009-05-23, 05:34 AM
Eh? Since when?

Have a look at the dwarves in The Hobbit, which is pretty much as classic as it gets. They aren't gruff, and they definitely don't have hearts of gold.

- Saph

Say what?? Tolkien's dwarves are the very definition of gruff. Tho I will give you that most of them dont have hearts of gold, except the two that are pretty much main characters. So yeah... Tolkien dwarves = gruff + heart of gold when it comes down to it, tho it takes a long time to chip thru their gruff exteriors.

I played a dwarf that had the money issue tho, it was fun and gave him some interesting conflictions as he was very goodhearted but was heavily tempted by wealth and would get into some pretty crazy situations for a few gems.

As far as the alcoholic thing... all dwarves should be boozers. Gives me the excuse to RP in real life at the table =)

Theodoriph
2009-05-23, 05:34 AM
You could always pull a Worf, and have Dwarves go crazy about prune juice instead of ale. :smallbiggrin:

I think that would drastically change the personality of the standard dwarf!

ghost_warlock
2009-05-23, 05:46 AM
Casanunda, the world's 2nd-greatest lover, is a dwarf. He even carries around his own step ladder and prints his own business cards.

Gary, an infected were-rat, has spent the better part of the last decade scrounging for cheese and trying to stay a step-ahead of his archnemesis, a were-tiger named Thom.

Turvold Bronzebottom was once as treasure-hungry as any dwarf could be. However, an incident involving a pile of treasure and a gelatinous cube resulted in a near-death experience for him. Since then, he's sworn a vow of poverty and, although he continues to adventure, he always donates his share of the treasure to a local orphanage.

shadow_archmagi
2009-05-23, 06:36 AM
Urist has spent the last four years carving out a home in the mountain. She hates and despises outsiders, and when they come to trade she activates a trap to seal off the trade depot and water rushes in from the ceiling. She was driven mad by the constant anti-feminism of her kind.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-05-23, 07:10 AM
Say what?? Tolkien's dwarves are the very definition of gruff. Tho I will give you that most of them dont have hearts of gold, except the two that are pretty much main characters. So yeah... Tolkien dwarves = gruff + heart of gold when it comes down to it, tho it takes a long time to chip thru their gruff exteriors.

Chip the glasses and crack the plates!
Blunt the knives and bend the forks!
That's what Bilbo hates -
Smash the bottles and burn the corks!

Cut the cloth and tread on the fat!
Pour the milk on the pantry floor!
Leave the bones on the bedroom mat!
Splash the wine on every door!

Dump the crocks in a boiling bowl;
Pound them up with a thumping pole;
And when you've finished, if any are whole,
Send them down the hall to roll!

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates!
So, carefully! carefully! with the plates!


Aw yeah, those dwarves sure were some dour, humorless SOBs.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-05-23, 07:22 AM
Hmm, I'm reminded of Pukel, the Dwarven Cook-Fighter that spontaneously retrained into Druid during the Cleric Quintet due to how ****ing insane he went over the course of the adventure.


Wasn't there a realy flamboant dwarf? I wish i could remember his name but its early in the morning and i havn't slept.
He was pritty amusing if i remember so.

darkblust
2009-05-23, 07:53 AM
i've thought about this subject alot while rp-ing,but the best non dwarf like dwarf i could think of would be an emo ninja who hated rum.beer.and anything alcoholic,but instead has a dead lamb in his bag at all times to make a horrendous stench.Quite weird,but definately not the norm.

shadow_archmagi
2009-05-23, 08:01 AM
Catten Hammerbridges, a dwarf warrior. He leads an army of war unicorns and carries a powerful magical shield made of unicorn leather, with a moon design on it. He and his squad travel the globe, hired by miners to deal with whatever comes up when they follow the mithril vein "Too Deep."

AslanCross
2009-05-23, 08:05 AM
One of my current players has a dwarf crusader, who, while mostly stereotypical in terms of love for alcohol, is incredibly vain. He plans to have feather fall permanently cast on his hair and beard so that they always fall neatly and gracefully.

Murdim
2009-05-23, 09:11 AM
Urist has spent the last four years carving out a home in the mountain. She hates and despises outsiders, and when they come to trade she activates a trap to seal off the trade depot and water rushes in from the ceiling. She was driven mad by the constant anti-feminism of her kind.This is a Dwarf Fortress shout-out. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality.

Hal
2009-05-23, 09:18 AM
The problem is that in most fantasy settings, RPGs especially, non-human races are typically defined by 1) external features, and 2) one (or a few) personality distinctions. As in, "They're like humans, but . . . " This is only hampered by the fact that most of us don't really know what it would be like to RP a 300 year old elf.

Upside: Defining the diversity and variety that goes into any society is very complicated and doesn't offer much guidance to players who want to roleplay a race.

Downside: Most of the characters end up feeling the same, with only minor or cosmetic changes.

As others have said already, just approach it however you would a human character. Just keep in mind that you have a cultural backdrop that can change the significance of whatever personality you end up giving your character.

Fortinbras
2009-05-23, 10:38 AM
The dwarves in my campagin setting are just beging to come into major contact with other races.The form trade agreements and are willing to send armies to defend their new allies. The are training a more diciplined army sort of a transition from barabarians to fighters. A lot of their culture is of course based on the vikings and other Germanic groups.

Nero24200
2009-05-23, 10:48 AM
I've only ever played two dwarves, the first was a fighter with a maul, though he was pretty "Generic" (at the time I was stumped for character ideas).

Though my second was more interesting, a dwarven rogue who theived and looted, I really emphasised the gold-lust with him. And it worked, it was the first time I've ever seen a dwarf fighting without an axe or hammer (he used a pair of shortswords).

Zhalath
2009-05-23, 12:54 PM
One of my last characters was a Dwarven Bard. His job was to walk around the battlefield and sing buff spells to the monk.
He was charming, witty, but a tad inattentive. He sometimes had to have the monk point things out that were right in front of him.
He liked to make new friends then immediately ask for a favor.
He never drank ale, instead sipped elven wine and spat it at people whom he didn't like.
He liked to claim that anything he couldn't identify was obviously dwarven, because the dwarves are always making new things (cucumbers are dwarven pickles, a saw is a dwarven knife, mold is dwarven plantbeard).

Yes, he was a lot of fun to play.

RavKal
2009-05-23, 03:34 PM
There once was a dwarf named Stumpy McBeardaxe, who had at one time been controlled by an Illithid who made stumpy carve his right forearm into a boat. After gaining his freedom, Stumpy carved his arm into a spike in a fit of rage which NEVER EVER STOPPED.

Stumpy hated everything and would eventually die in combat with a Famine Spirit, after eating his way out of the Spirit's gut multiple times and losing both of his legs.


Aw yeah, those dwarves sure were some dour, humorless SOBs.

I am going to sig this, unless you have a problem with it.

DamnedIrishman
2009-05-23, 04:24 PM
Go play Dark Sun.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-05-23, 04:42 PM
Ditto, iconic dwarves would be Gimli and Flint Fireforge who were both comical father figures.

There is that voluptuously sexy bounty huntress in Kendermore.

My favorite dwarf is Korgan from BG2 who was a CE berserker with a soft spot for children having lost his daughter. There's Grimgnaw from NWN who is gruff and depressing with a heart of coal. That stereotype is not very stereotypical.
No offense, but does your knowledge of Gimli come from Jackson's films or from Tolkien's writing? Because while there are some amusing moments in Lord of the Rings, Gimli isn't a comic relief character. Jackson just stuck him in that role.

imp_fireball
2009-05-23, 05:36 PM
Okay so as we've seen, it seems like every dwarf, ever, in the history of eternity was a gruff sort, who, deep down had a heart of gold, and could be relied upon by his companions to come through in any situation.

That's boring.

I want to see some NEW ideas for how to roleplay dwarves. Something that isn't done to death. Try to keep the ideas broad, and easily applicable to different characters with different backstories, basically apply character traits, tics and quirks. It should be fun.

My idea is that a dwarf, rather than being kind to his friends could, instead, see them more as a means to accrue more wealth, leaving them to die if he could run off with the money, to bring back to his clan.

Or the dwarf could be a goofy sort, putting friends and enemies off guard with his folksy charm and provincial mannerisms. But underneath the goofy facade is a hardened and well trained master of combat, the goofball act a careful ruse to lower the defenses of those around him.

And of course the classic Dwarven Merc. More concerned with the next drink, meal, and wench than anything else, and seeing each job as a means to those ends. He's world weary, selfish, and distant, but at the very least can be relied to complete the job at hand, though he won't hesitate to bash your skull in if that's the next paying job to come his way.

As you can see some of these are a little cliched, my hope is to come up with something a bit more than that and to get a good list of numerous ways to roleplay dwarves.

Think about dwarven criminals and what they are like. What could encourage a dwarf to pursue magic maybe? What about dwarves brought up in a human society? I want to explore all these different characters.

This actually depends on alignment and backstory as well. Dwarves are a typically patriotic sort, and if the dwarf recently hailed from his homeland, he'd probably base his actions around the 'way of his people'.

In regards to alignment, a CE dwarf might reflect the greedier nature of his people (he'd probably argue that greed was what established the nation to begin with and that either 'greed is good' or that 'greed is actually bad but I'm just being incredibly delusional (as a lot of realistically CE people might be) and offering nationalistic quips to throw you off') while a LG dwarf = insert dwarf cliche.


My idea is that a dwarf, rather than being kind to his friends could, instead, see them more as a means to accrue more wealth, leaving them to die if he could run off with the money, to bring back to his clan.

This pretty much fits what I already listed. CE or NE dwarf. He's evil (couldn't care about how his actions affect strangers), but growing up with his clan enabled him to fit an ideology that bettered them. Him and his clan are so close that to make them happy is to make him happy. Arguably, this would be lawful evil as well, although LE imo represents a more orderly way of going about things (not necessarily intelligent or wise... rather, they merely think of it as a presiding matter).


And of course the classic Dwarven Merc. More concerned with the next drink, meal, and wench than anything else, and seeing each job as a means to those ends. He's world weary, selfish, and distant, but at the very least can be relied to complete the job at hand, though he won't hesitate to bash your skull in if that's the next paying job to come his way.

That would the CN dwarf with evil tendencies. 'Not hesitating'.


Or the dwarf could be a goofy sort, putting friends and enemies off guard with his folksy charm and provincial mannerisms. But underneath the goofy facade is a hardened and well trained master of combat, the goofball act a careful ruse to lower the defenses of those around him.

Again, CN with neutral or good tendencies.

----
All of those examples you've given relate to alignment and backstory. The fact that they are cliche'd is not my concern, it's that they don't relate to actual racial mannerisms. If the player is concerned about fluff, why play a dwarf when a human could equally fit this description (unless the setting and the backstory sort of demand that he not be human)?

Also, racial and cultural mannerisms are different again. Dwarves might actually be similar to humans mentally, because they're demi-humans though, its hard to say.

Example Racial Mannerisms (that I made up just now)

Human - A lot of human culture relates to expression of sex. While humans don't actually (always) think about sex, gender roles are a strong element. Humans are very dynamic, which makes up for the fact that they can collapse into any degree of insane savagery given hard enough circumstance.

Dwarf - Dwarves are naturally a stoic sort. They don't take to small talk. Subconsciously, they will make friends however they won't consider them true friends until after some manner of decades. Few humans, because of their lifespans, are 'dwarf friends'. Among small circles, a 'dwarf friend' is a great title to be bestowed - something that presents itself in a lot of dwarven cultures.

Orc - Orcs see the necessity of accomplishing tasks not to please the individual but for some 'higher meaning'. Sometimes the meaning is logical, and sometimes it is to befit a religion. Some other races view orcs as not being apt to individualized self pleasure. Humans view orcs as less 'exquisite' in their indulgences. Perhaps this is the reason why orcs are more quick to war as a means to an end. Human and orc are often equally productive given the same environment (although both have their immediate advantages/disadvantages). While the human represents dynamism, the orc begets a more 'animal will power'. Orcs fight each other as much as humans might fight one another, however orcs are less likely to render one another extinct as their ability to adapt is less 'volatile'.

When you're thinking about racial mannerisms, I would also consult with the GM as that sort of thing might strongly affect setting.


Urist has spent the last four years carving out a home in the mountain. She hates and despises outsiders, and when they come to trade she activates a trap to seal off the trade depot and water rushes in from the ceiling. She was driven mad by the constant anti-feminism of her kind.

Wow, what a bitch. :smallamused:

Tallis
2009-05-23, 09:50 PM
I played a dwarf who wanted to be a pirate for a while. He drank hard, fought hard and partied hard. His best friend and partner was a human sorcerer. Never did get to find him a ship :(.

How about a dwarf who doesn't believe in personal possessions. Everything should be shared according to a persons need.

Check out the dwarves in norse mythology. They are greedy, sometimes sycophantic tricksters. They frequently use magic and are more likely to hide then fight. Though they will do whatever it takes to get revenge on someone they feel has wronged them.

herrhauptmann
2009-05-23, 10:01 PM
Nope, I haven't noticed at all. (http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/)

I know about onemanga, it's where I read my shaman king, Baki, Fairy Tale, Claymore and HunterxHunter (also on hiatus).

But I like to head to the bookstore and kill some time with a manga, even if I already know the story. But I've only seen 1 new book of FMA since before new years.

Abstruse
2009-05-23, 10:02 PM
One I had fun with a while back was Bellin - the dwarven thug. 16 STR, 15 DEX, took a lot of ranks in Intimidate and had a half-decent CHA. He was in it strictly for the money, though he had some smarts as well, and once patched up an ogre in negative HP so he could "persuade" it to give up some necessary information at the point of a very sharp knife.

He was actually kind of disappointed that it gave up the information so quickly. Which lead me to the eternal quote, "Damnit, I was gonna get me an ear, too..."

bosssmiley
2009-05-23, 10:24 PM
Okay so as we've seen, it seems like every dwarf, ever, in the history of eternity was a gruff sort, who, deep down had a heart of gold, and could be relied upon by his companions to come through in any situation.

Narrow reference pool strikes again :smallamused:

Norse myth/German folklore/Wagner gave us dwarves as scheming gold-crazed madmen
2E's Birthright gave us dwarves as living stones with hearts made from a ruby the size of your fist (supposedly)
Tad Williams Memory, Thorn and Sorrow made them reclusive Morlocks hiding from the ancient masters who enslaved them
Michael Scoot Rohan's "Winter of the World" made them the Neanderthals (older, wiser and with larger brains than our ancestors)
Warhammer gave us one entire dwarven culture based on grudgelore, and another based on quasi-Assyrian gunpowder fiends with slave armies and bull centaurs
Terry Pratchett gave us the 'Dwarves = Jews' meme (thrifty, hardworking, insular, misunderstood, respectful of age and knowledge, torn between the old and new ways, peaceable until pushed) and played with the idea of bride-price in a way both alien and touching.
Also Casanunda :smallwink:
The terrible "Van Helsing" movie gave us the Dvergi - sharp-toothed, chittering subcontractors to the resident mad scientist
Shaver gave us the Derro (mad super-science dwarves of the underworld with rayguns and flying saucers)
Dark Sun gave us bald(!) dwarven monomaniacs doomed to haunt the site of their final failure
Dwarf Fortress gave us tragi-comic drunken obsessives who fear carp and simply don't even care if they are on fire
Even I managed to make a decent case for the idea that dwarves (not elves) are the master vintners of D&D-land


(and that list was without even thinking hard about it)

Dwarves are only stumpy Vikings with faux-Scottish accents if you don't bother to do anything else with them.

Roderick_BR
2009-05-23, 10:44 PM
Take a look on Hero Builder's Guidebook http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/868960000
It's a book about fluffy suggestions for any race/class combination from the Player's Handbook (3.0), including examples of dwarves, other than the typical dwarf fighter/dwarf cleric stereotype personalities.
Also, Forgotten Realms have the Gold Dwarf race (int +2, dex -2; instead of con+2, cha-2), that get along better with others races, and deal more with arcane magic.

Different kinds of dwarves within official WotC products.

Trizap
2009-05-23, 10:54 PM
..............has anyone even heard my "thief dwarves" idea?

Draz74
2009-05-23, 11:11 PM
Wide eyed archeologist/geologist "Oh, sorry, i was just examining this beautiful calcium carbonate formation over.. oh, right, beat things with a hammer now"

Yep, that pretty much sounds like my last Dwarf character. Don't get me wrong, he was still pretty handy in a fight. And gruff. And greedy. But the passion for engineering was paramount, and it worked well.

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-24, 03:50 PM
Well, in 3.5 dwarves are one of the best caster classes, despite a penchant for not liking magic in role play terms
Bah! Dwarves have a long and proud magical tradition. It just wasn't obvious what it was until they came up with the Artificer class.


How about a dwarf who doesn't believe in personal possessions. Everything should be shared according to a persons need.
Communist dwarves often think that people are naturally too greedy to behave ethically if allowed personal possessions. They're projecting, of course.


..............has anyone even heard my "thief dwarves" idea?
I noticed it.

I have nothing to say in response, but that doesn't mean I didn't notice it. (Similarly, you haven't replied to most of the posts in this thread, but that doesn't mean you didn't notice them.)

Decoy Lockbox
2009-05-24, 04:36 PM
My last dwarven pc:

Angus McMarmot, the "Iron Chef". Max ranks in knowledge: cookery, wore a bloodstained apron and chef's hat, was a level 1 fighter who used a tower shield and monkey gripped a greataxe in one hand to represent a meat cleaver. Needless to say, he was a mechanically terrible character, and he died a horrible death after one session at the hands of a scimitar crit.

And that was the last time I played a dwarf.

I made a campaign setting featuring the country of Ursevande, which was an entire nation of swamp-dwelling Cajun dwarves. The campaign didn't last long, but it was an intriguing idea.

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-24, 09:37 PM
In imp_fireball's vein of making up plausible-sounding group characteristics...

Dwarves: Classic Rock

Elves may be the oldest demihuman race, but dwarves proudly boast the oldest civilization. They were carving elaborate underground complexes into the mountains and elaborate codes of law into the walls when their woods-dwelling allies were still mastering "How do I shot bow?" Dwarves tend to be very dedicated to certain standards, and are famous for resolve as strong as the armor and weapons they forge. They're also famous for building things to last. And I'm not just talking about tools and architecture, here. I'm talking about stuff like communities and governments.

To most dwarves, honor is everything. Because if you do something dishonorable, you get Shunned. This doesn't mean that other dwarves won't talk to you, or won't trade with you. It means that they won't treat you as a friend. They won't invite your around for drinks, they won't start up a pleasant little conversation with you (or respond to your attempts to do same), and they won't speak to you or even look at you with respect. (Dwarves need respect.) And that's the way it'll stay until you earn back your clan's good graces.

Strangers get Shunned by default. They're on probation until they can win a dwarf's trust by showing that they're trustworthy. So, if dwarves often come across as standoffish, that's because they are. They don't trust you, because odds are you're very dishonorable by dwarven standards.

The exception to all of this is dwarves who live away from most dwarves. There was a time when these consisted entirely of outcasts who had each done something so dishonorable that they couldn't possibly hope to make amends. You can still encounter some of these; almost every dwarf who originated in but doesn't live in a predominately dwarven area is an outcast. Warning: They do not like to talk about this!

At some point, though, there got to be enough outcasts for them to set up little communities of their own, within the towns of other races, or in little out-of-the-way places. These tend to vary, depending on the nature of their initial members, in their attitudes toward the Old Ways and traditional dwarven culture. This may vary from family to family. That's certainly the case for dwarven minorities mixed entirely into the communities of other races.

For more on dwarven culture, see Races of War (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=681572).

Xallace
2009-05-24, 10:09 PM
While I don't suppose it breaks many stereotypes, I do like the idea of Ahab Ishmael Whitewhale, dwarven naval captain and master of the hammerpoon. Notable for his advances in dwarven maritime technology, especially the vastly feared "hammerpedo."

Also, lost an arm and leg to a half-sperm whale half-white dragon. Uses magically-animated rock limbs as replacements.

elliott20
2009-05-24, 10:16 PM
..............has anyone even heard my "thief dwarves" idea?

heard of it? hell, that character concept is present in every Knights of the Dinner Table adventuring party.

Ladorak
2009-05-24, 10:26 PM
My idea is that a dwarf, rather than being kind to his friends could, instead, see them more as a means to accrue more wealth, leaving them to die if he could run off with the money, to bring back to his clan.

Isn't that Thorian near the end of the hobbit?


Or the dwarf could be a goofy sort, putting friends and enemies off guard with his folksy charm and provincial mannerisms. But underneath the goofy facade is a hardened and well trained master of combat, the goofball act a careful ruse to lower the defenses of those around him.

Isn't that Gimli? (Film, not book)

And why is it Gimli the only decent movie dwarf I've seen? I mean think of that red-bearded one in the D&D movie (Shudder)

Fortinbras
2009-05-25, 08:12 PM
While I don't suppose it breaks many stereotypes, I do like the idea of Ahab Ishmael Whitewhale, dwarven naval captain and master of the hammerpoon. Notable for his advances in dwarven maritime technology, especially the vastly feared "hammerpedo."

Also, lost an arm and leg to a half-sperm whale half-white dragon. Uses magically-animated rock limbs as replacements.

I love this idea, I'm going to steel it.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-05-25, 08:49 PM
Isn't that Thorian near the end of the hobbit?
Actually, Thorin was more like "The treasure's ours, and if you want any of it, even what's rightfully yours, you'll have to pry it from our cold dwarfy fingers."

He wasn't about to run off with the treasure. He and the rest of the dwarves were willing to face certain death to keep it.

And why is it Gimli the only decent movie dwarf I've seen? I mean think of that red-bearded one in the D&D movie (Shudder)
Hey! Elwood Gutworthy was a swell example of an interesting dwarf. Instead of stoic and reserved, he was crazy and violent. He was a real laugh too. I mean, come on, the actor who played him went on to play Pintel in the Pirates of the Carribean movies! He had to be doin' something right there!

Leewei
2009-05-25, 09:42 PM
While I thought the Dungeons & Dragons movie was aged raw sewage, I thought the dwarf's and thief king's portrayals were actually pretty damned good.

Shademan
2009-05-26, 03:37 AM
I once played in a PbP campaign with a bald dwarf.
no hair.
at all!
NO BEARD!!!
I did not trust him ONE bit!
he was up to something... I'm sure!!!

(gibbering!)


Oh, and I made a dwarf for my current campaign (which is going to be run by a friend for some sessions so i get to play abit too).
He's a nomad like dwarf living in the desert, fights mainly with a bow and bears the name Hasan Al-Habbal Ben Hesam.
and yes...he will INSIST that you use his full name.
apart from that, think of him as a ranged version of Zorro... alignement-wise.

Paul H
2009-05-26, 06:21 AM
Hi

Hmmm - Dwarves I've played recently.......

My Warmage/Cleric/Mysic Theurge in Living Greyhawk (Now tranferred to Living Planar)

My Ftr/Swashbuckler/Kensai. TWF with two oversized Elven Thinblades

My Dwarf Druid in Pathfinder. (His barded Riding Dog acts as Party Tank)

Another Dwarf Druid in homebrew Mystara campaign (Someone has to ensure the hops grow for Dwarven Beer)!

My Dwarven tank in Age of Worms campaign. (Clr 6/Radiant Servant Pelor 9 - NOT Lawful)!

My Dwarven Cleric (CG) Llir/Divine Oracle in World's Largest Dungeon.

Oh - I do play other races - got a Changeling Beguiler/Warlock/Eldritch Theurge for Eberron, a Dakon cohort for my (Dwarf) main Living Planar campaign, and an Elven Beguiler. (Also for Living Planar).

Cheers
Paul H

evisiron
2009-05-26, 08:43 AM
Planning to play this in a short campaign (maybe one shot, hence ripped concept). Any Warhammer fans will know of Slayers, dwarves who have brought shame to their clan and seek a glorious death in battle to atone for their misdeed. They are fearsome berserker warriors, charging headlong into the most hopeless battles.

My character is going to be a traders accountant, who through a moment of distraction, mistakenly evaluated a merchants gold, causing the Clan to buy it in huge amounts; only for the mistake to be discovered later and the Clan becoming a laughing stock among the dwarf community. And so, this accountant has taken the Slayer Oath, and seeks a glorious death in battle. He knows how Slayers should act... but he is simply not very good at it.

"I shall..umm.. DICE YOUR ENTRAILS and whatnot!"

Optimystik
2009-05-26, 12:14 PM
Hmm, I'm reminded of Pukel, the Dwarven Cook-Fighter that spontaneously retrained into Druid during the Cleric Quintet due to how ****ing insane he went over the course of the adventure.

Urgh.

1) His name is Pikel.
2) He became a druid because he loved the outdoors so much, not because he was "insane." Certainly he seemed crazy to his brother Ivan, but he was clearly the wiser of the two even though he couldn't speak properly.
3) He did so at a time when D&D was just losing Race/Class restrictions (between 2e and 3e.) It was fairly groundbreaking at the time. Even the other druids and elves in the text were telling him it would be impossible to be a Dwarven druid.
4) By the final book, he actually had gained druidic powers: He successfully charmed a large snake with Wild Empathy, and he cast at least one druid spell (Shillelagh (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shillelagh.htm)); he used this spell to successfully overcome the DR of the vampires in the Edificant Library. (Again, this was 3e, so DR was enhancement-based rather than material-based as in 3.5.)

And to tie this to the topic, he was easily the most original dwarf I've ever read about. He stayed true to his dwarven roots (always fighting his brother, drinking etc.) while being unique enough to stand on his own (he loved trees, even going so far as to hug one to prevent his brother from chopping it; he dyed his beard green; and he only used wooden weapons.)

Coidzor
2009-05-26, 02:45 PM
^: Exactly, the author drove the poor dwarf insane. I didn't say he didn't become a druid. I said he became one out of insanity. Granted, I'm not an expert on Dwarven psychology, but I think the not being able to speak properly probably was the first sign of sommat amiss.

Hmm, well, at least I got all but one of the letters right...

Maybe I was channeling the pukelmen or whatever from Tolkien's lore....


And why is it Gimli the only decent movie dwarf I've seen? I mean think of that red-bearded one in the D&D movie (Shudder)

Hey, if your women were all as bearded as you were, you'd probably come to expect some kind of beard-related kinks. :smalltongue:

Shademan
2009-05-26, 03:15 PM
you guys sure that he is crazy and not just a wee bit "special"?