Tales of the Silmarils

[Raz_Fox]

Well, I picked up the Silmarillion again to see if I could get all the way through it this time. I actually think I read all of it in bits and separate pieces, but it won't hurt to read the entire saga.

It's a bit dry in places, true, but the lavish attention to detail and the brilliant imagination of the author make the book truly amazing. It's an entire world's history unfolding through the book - absolutely fantastic to read.

So, has anyone else here read through the Silmarillion? Who else really enjoys the detail and hard work that Tolkien put into this? And most importantly, who else thinks that Feanor and Fingolfin were total badasses?

[Helanna]

Oh wow, I LOVE the Silmarillion!! And the story of how I read it is actually kind of weird.

You see, I picked up the Silmarillion at Barnes & Nobles because it's on my list of books to read, and I enjoyed the Lord of the Rings. However, I picked it up in the middle of November. November is National Novel Writing Month. (http://www.nanowrimo.org) No reading can be done during November until I reach my 50,000 words. And I was running severely behind. The last day of November, I wrote for eight hours straight, while listening to a new band I had just found that morning. I listened to one of their albums on repeat for nearly eight hours.

The band was Blind Guardian. The album was Nightfall in Middle Earth, which retells the story of the Silmarillion. By the time I hit the 50,000 mark, I couldn't wait to actually read the Silmarillion.

Also . . . yes, Fingolfin is awesome, although Feanor irritated me a bit. Not nearly as much as Maedhros did by the end. And I even love the wordiness of the book. I know a lot of people can't stand the verbosity, but I love reading in that amount of detail.

So anybody else who's read it . . . what's your favorite story from it? Since it's kind of split into a bunch of interrelated stories. Mine is the tale of Beren and Luthien. That was just an awesome story.

[kamikasei]

Pfft, Feanor. Maedhros and Finrod could of course not actually kick his ass, but as characters they certainly do.

And yeah, the tale of Beren and Luthien is the best single story, though many individual scenes or incidents in others are up there (Hurin fighting the trolls, for example).

Favourite character: Finrod.

And Nightfall is indeed a lot of fun.

[knighttp01]

Indeed, Silmarilion is a great book, havent got my own copy but read my dads early print, thinking of getting it, I'm currently going on getting old prints, some of the new ones have toned down the vocabulary in it.

Personally I love the bit where Sauron fights the guy who can turn into the bear (I havent read it in years forgive me for not knowing his name or the book)

[GolemsVoice]

It's probably a few years now since I've read it, and I remember that it was pretty dull for all the awesomeness it described. But it is true, the story is epic, and single moments really shine (challenging Melkor in front of his fortress, hell yeah!), and so I realy don't regret reading it. i remember very little, though still enough to know more than those who didn't read it.

[Raz_Fox]

Oh wow, I LOVE the Silmarillion!! And the story of how I read it is actually kind of weird.

You see, I picked up the Silmarillion at Barnes & Nobles because it's on my list of books to read, and I enjoyed the Lord of the Rings. However, I picked it up in the middle of November. November is National Novel Writing Month. (http://www.nanowrimo.org) No reading can be done during November until I reach my 50,000 words. And I was running severely behind. The last day of November, I wrote for eight hours straight, while listening to a new band I had just found that morning. I listened to one of their albums on repeat for nearly eight hours.

The band was Blind Guardian. The album was Nightfall in Middle Earth, which retells the story of the Silmarillion. By the time I hit the 50,000 mark, I couldn't wait to actually read the Silmarillion.

Also . . . yes, Fingolfin is awesome, although Feanor irritated me a bit. Not nearly as much as Maedhros did by the end. And I even love the wordiness of the book. I know a lot of people can't stand the verbosity, but I love reading in that amount of detail.

So anybody else who's read it . . . what's your favorite story from it? Since it's kind of split into a bunch of interrelated stories. Mine is the tale of Beren and Luthien. That was just an awesome story.

Interestingly, it was running in to Blind Guardian that got me to pick up the Silmarillion again. Eight hours listening to that would be awesome, DD. :smallbiggrin:

Feanor's really the tragic hero - he fell to his fatal flaw, and still managed to live with style and panache. And kill untold numbers of his kindred, but who's counting?

I'd have to say that my favorite story from the Silmarillion was the Exodus of the Noldor or the Fall of Numenor.

[Kaiser Omnik]

I've read parts of the Silmarillion long ago. I absolutely love Tolkien's mythology!

Raz, you have good taste. :smallbiggrin:

[kamikasei]

And kill untold numbers of his kindred, but who's counting?

Mandos, one imagines.

Oh, I'm surprised I overlooked it earlier. The little exchange between Aule and Yavanna over the dwarves is one of my favourite scenes in fiction.

[Lord Iames Osari]

I read the Silmarillion straight through. I can't quite remember if it was all in one sitting, but I do know that I started at the beginning and read all the way to the end.

Every once in a while I'll think "hey I remember this cool bit from the Silmarillion. I should read it again." Then I pick it up and I think "Oh God this is so incredibly dense." And put it down again.

[Kane]

You certainly aren't the only one to think that Fingolflin is a badass. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWDR_ncgqwg)

I loved the LotR books, but never got around to reading the Silmarillion.

I ran into that song when my brother, who was visiting, and I'd introduced to TV tropes, left the 'crowning music of awesome' page up. I'd been listening to Pandora, and it had kept playing bits of Blind Guardian, but I'd never heard this one.

I now love this band as much as Iron Maiden. :smallbiggrin:

[skywalker]

I was going to quote The Silmarillion for my final paper on Star Wars and mythology, then said "Oh God, this is so incredibly dense!" and decided to quote Fellowship of the Ring instead.

I personally like the story, I love myths. I could read/listen for hours about Jason or Achilles, and it's no different hearing about heroes like Beren...

I think it's a bit thick and contrived as an invented myth (as opposed to "organically" generated), but all the magic swords and heroes make me crazy. I'm a mythology freak.

[Weezer]

I love the Silmarillion, though it can be a bit dnse at times I think that in truth I enjoy it better than the LOTR trilogy. I especially love fingolfin's stand against Morgoth, it was undeniably one of the most epic scenes in Middle Earth.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I haven't read this book, but am I right in thinking that the silmarils themselves are pointless McGuffins that don't do anything apart from look pretty?

[kamikasei]

I haven't read this book, but am I right in thinking that the silmarils themselves are pointless McGuffins that don't do anything apart from look pretty?

For most of the book, yeah, they're not of actual "use" to anyone; Morgoth wants them because he's a covetous bastard who can't stand to have others enjoying beauty, the elves fight over them because they're enmeshed in an unwisely-sworn oath to recover them.

Symbolically, though, they have more going for them. They contain the light of the Two Trees of Valinor, basically the most pure and beautiful things ever to exist in the universe, whose light otherwise only lives in the Sun and the Moon - and those are lit by fruits borne by the trees after they were poisoned and corrupted, which serves to illustrate just how gosh-darned awesome the trees themselves were. Basically they're the last pure incarnations of unsullied primal beauty left in the world. It's tied in to the whole continuous, repeating fall-from-grace ravages-of-time motif throughout Tolkien's work.

They had a use, which is that in theory they could have been broken open and the light stored in them used to revive the Trees after Morgoth poisoned them. However, he immediately stole the Silmarils after doing that, so the scene in which the Valar ask Feanor to let them do so really only serves as Feanor's "important choice" - even if he'd assented, it wouldn't have worked. It's suggested that the rest of the unfortunate history of Feanor and his line and all the damage they cause throughout the rest of the First Age would have been considerably better if he'd made the selfless choice at that point, though.

And their value as McGuffins isn't just to be pretty. Firstly they symbolize the "truth and beauty that evil can never touch" (literally, they burn Morgoth and leave him in constant pain) which the elves fight to wrest from his grasp; secondly, they're works of mortal (well, elven) hands which they're battling the mightiest of the gods to recover.

Certainly though, compared to the Ring of Power, they have no inherent value as being capable of doing something. They just are.

[Raz_Fox]

I haven't read this book, but am I right in thinking that the silmarils themselves are pointless McGuffins that don't do anything apart from look pretty?

...They're imbued with divine light, the only light from the Twin Trees of holiness and light that still exists after Melkor destroyed the trees. They inspire lust in almost every important character that sees them, and burn the unrighteous - which is everyone, seeing as no one can be perfect. Just one drives the monstrous wolf Carcharoth (I spelled that right first try! :smallbiggrin:) insane after he eats it. Even the princes of the Noldor are burned when they try to take them, after the evil they did to regain them.

You could call them pointless McGuffins that just look pretty, or you could respect them as the finest and holiest jewels in literature.

...What, were you expecting holy orbs that could only be taken up by the pure and allow their wielder to duel the god of darkness?

Fear my curse! NINJAAAAAA!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I haven't read this book, but am I right in thinking that the silmarils themselves are pointless McGuffins that don't do anything apart from look pretty?
Not exactly.

One easy example I'd like to point out is that the light from one of the Silmarils actually ends up in the Phial of Galadriel, which she gives to Sam, which he uses to fend off Shelob. (Which is actually a really cool parallel back to Ungoliant and the Silmarils...but that's another story)

The Silmarillion is EPIC. I was so happy to get my hands on a copy of it, and now I have a paperback copy to take everywhere...bwahahahaha.

Feanor is an incredible character, and very awesome, even if he does have his fall. Probably one of the best tragic heroes out there, and a prime example of why "elf" does not equal "pretty-boy", "wuss", or "goody-good".

[Helanna]

some of the new ones have toned down the vocabulary in it.

WHAT? Really? Wow. I can see how that might make it easier for some people to understand and enjoy it, but . . . I just couldn't read it like that, I think.

Yes, Fingolfin is pretty awesome, and Time Stands Still (at the Iron Hill) is one of my favorite Blind Guardian songs. That scene is just so epic, and so hopelessly tragic at the same time!



I ran into that song when my brother, who was visiting, and I'd introduced to TV tropes, left the 'crowning music of awesome' page up. I'd been listening to Pandora, and it had kept playing bits of Blind Guardian, but I'd never heard this one.

I now love this band as much as Iron Maiden.

I don't even remember how I found that band now, but I wish I could. But I believe that this means you will join me in my current rage against my sister? Partially due to this thread, I listened to NiME in the car today, and she suggests that they should be named "Deaf Guardian", as in "deaf to any sense of music." Made especially infuriating since she enjoys listening to awful, filthy poetry spoken in a monotone against a background of loud, off-beat drums (aka rap) and calls that music.

[Remmirath]

I love the Silmarillion as much as I love The Lord of the Rings, and that's quite a bit. I read it again fairly recently, having realised that I actually hadn't read it since I was eleven.
Maybe needless to say, but I liked it even more this time around.

Really, the only part of it I've ever found at all dense is the very first part. After that it's pretty easy to read.

I'm not really sure which my favourite story would be.


Pfft, Feanor. Maedhros and Finrod could of course not actually kick his ass, but as characters they certainly do.

Well, maybe they could. At least if they teamed up on him. Feanor was awesome, certainly (well, at least in my opinion), but he wasn't the best fighter of them all. I always got the impression that he was more craftsman than fighter, although obviously good at both.
And I've always liked Finrod. He's just cool.


I don't even remember how I found that band now, but I wish I could. But I believe that this means you will join me in my current rage against my sister? Partially due to this thread, I listened to NiME in the car today, and she suggests that they should be named "Deaf Guardian", as in "deaf to any sense of music." Made especially infuriating since she enjoys listening to awful, filthy poetry spoken in a monotone against a background of loud, off-beat drums (aka rap) and calls that music.

No accounting for taste. Blind Guardian - awesome. Rap - well, it cracks me up, but I can't stand it as music. :smallbiggrin:

[factotum]

I always found the Battle of Unnumbered Tears to be the best moment in the book...the moment where the good guys almost won (they even got as far as killing the guards on the upper stairs in Thangorodrim) but were defeated by treachery. The last lines, about the hill in Anfauglith which is the only place where grass grows, are just awesome.

[knighttp01]

Of course the silmarillion also has some nice stuff on the second age and the rise of sauron followed by the fall of numenor, puts LOTR in a bit of perspective.

Like I love telling people who havent read Silmarillion that Sauron is small fry compared to Morgoth, he was a lieutenant in the army of the greatest god, who fell from grace.

[Corvus]

The Silmarillion is close to my all time favourite book ever, even if it has elves in it. I know a lot of people call it dry, but I'm a huge, huge, huge history buff and this book is crammed with it.

Favourite bit doesn't involve elves, or even humans, but the Dwarves, at the Fifth Battle, Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Glaurung, the father of all dragons, came upon the battle and he and his brood would have wiped out all that remained of the Noldor, but the Dwarves of Belegost stood firm and fought him. Their lord, Azaghal was slain, but in so doing struck Glaurung and caused him to flee wounded, and caused the beasts of Angband to follow him in dismay.

Then the Dwarves collected Azaghal's body and slowly marched off the field of battle singing funeral dirges and the enemy made no moves to stop them. Thats pretty badass.

[Wikimaster]

One of the best! I loved it when Fingolfin actually challenged Morgoth to a duel, despite knowing that he had no hope against a being of such power. I loved it more when he actually wounded him, several times ! I also loved the battles, even the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, which fully deserved that name (Poor Hurin!).

[bosssmiley]

Hurin (http://www.thecimmerian.com/?p=4117), just Hurin. :smallcool:

“Aure entuluva! Day shall come again!”

"The Silmarillion" is probably the richest, densest book I've ever read apart from RL mythology. There are so many evocative descriptions and memorable characters that it'd probably be quicker to pick out the parts I don't like (few, if any) than to name favourites.

[Morty]

The Silmarillion... well, I like it, just not like I like other stories. It really reads more like a legend rather than a novel most of the time. But it's epic. Both in the content and the style. I also liked that elves weren't as absoultely and puerly good as in LoTR - they screwed up sometimes, it's just that their screw-ups were of different kind than those of Men. And mortality being a gift to makind rather than a curse is a great idea. Blind Guardian is badass too, but that's pretty obvious. Although personally, I prefer "Nightfall" to "Time Stands Still".

[kamikasei]

It really reads more like a legend rather than a novel most of the time.

It really shouldn't be read as a novel except perhaps once to start with. It's really best suited to re-reading in sections and stories once you have the overall framework of the mythos in your head.

[WalkingTarget]

Bought a hardcover copy illustrated by Ted Nasmith and read it back in 2000. I had already been a Tolkien fan before that (loved The Hobbit as a kid and once I managed to get through LotR the first time it grew on me quickly) and it just blew me away.

I had been a mythology hound for as long as I can remember and the sheer scope of the work was just amazing. It's a shame that Professor Tolkien never got it into a final form he was happy with (I especially would like to see a complete version of Tuor's story). One of these days I'm going to have to track down a nice set of the History of Middle-earth books.

I have to say that it's hard to top Fingolfin's stand against Morgoth.

[Artemician]

I have to say that it's hard to top Fingolfin's stand against Morgoth.


And Fimble, howling in rage, threw himself forward with his last strength; and he bit with his mouth at the Dark Lord's face, and bit again, and bit a third time. Handless as he was, armed with no weapon and speaking no ward, yet Fimble struck at Moregothic.

And the Dark Lord cried in surprise and pain, and smote at Fimble with his black-bladed sword; but Fimble clung on, even as the blade cut his flesh. And Moregothic staggered in pain, and his foot stumbled on the edge of the crag, and so he fell.

His fal lwas mighty, and he fell hard upon the broken ground, where the stalagmite spires of ice rose up needle-sharp. And one mighty blade of ice pierced Moregothic's breast as he fell upon it and thrust through.

And at this moment Moregothic knew that the Dragons had deceived him. For the ice pierced his chest, and its terrible cold burned his heart, and chill seared his flesh, and so he died.Fillertext

[Morty]

It really shouldn't be read as a novel except perhaps once to start with. It's really best suited to re-reading in sections and stories once you have the overall framework of the mythos in your head.

Yes, I know. Hence why I said that I like it, but not as I like other good books. It confused the heck out of me at the first read, to be honest. I was young then, though.

[Dienekes]

Yep, the Sil is actually my favorite of the Tolkien books (though I'm used to and enjoy reading history books, so that could explain it).

But on Feanor, ehh, he kinda made me annoyed at the elves (moreso than normal). The best badass was Gothmog. The dude appears and kills someone, that's how he rolls.

[pendell]

Right here! Been reading Silmarrillion passionately since my teens, and I'm in my late-30s now.

Fingolfin IS a badass. No mortal could hope to defeat Morgoth in single combat, but he certainly did as well as any mortal could.

I didn't find Feanor to be a sympathetic character at all. Proud and willful, he is responsible for the exile of the Noldor from Valinor, for the murder of countless Sea-Elves, for the abandonment of Fingolfin and many other kin, forcing them to cross the Grinding Ice, and most of all for the dreadful Oath he swore, an Oath which caused mischief, treachery and death down to Earendil's time. I can't think of a single individual responsible for more evil, except perhaps Morgoth himself.

The Silmarrillion has a ton of golden moments. Akallabeth, the decline and fall of Numenor. The hidden city of Gondolin and its hidden fountains. The Battle of Un-numbered Tears.

No love for Turin son of Hurin, the first recorded dragon-slayer in the Tolkien universe? C'mon, I mean, yes, he brought bad luck everywhere he went, but he still killed the first dragon.

What about his Pa, Hurin? There's your O-chul in Tolkien world. Killing a multitude of orcs in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears until they just dogpiled him. Then dragged in chains to Morgoth, but he still managed to insult Morgoth to his face, for which he was tortured for years, doomed to watch events in the world through Morgoth's eyes. And Morgoth cursed his children as well.

What about the fight over the Dwarves' Necklace, which started the Feud which Legolas and Gimli alluded to as late as the Third Age?

Great, great stories. But they aren't really novelized the way Hobbit or LOTR is -- more mythology in the raw. I find that disappointing. I wish Tolkien had stuck around to write more stories in the mythos, rather than leave the remainder to us as raw myth. Reading the Silmarrillion is sometimes like reading an encylopedia.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Badgercloak]

I love the Simarilion. I read it cover to cover cause I couldn't put it down. Yes Fingolfin is the most badass Elf, the discription of his sheild and sword are one of my favorite parts.

A must read for Tolkien fans

[Kato]

Yeah, I also read the Silmarillion though it was quite a while back (and since I'm German only the German version)

I enjoyed it quite a lot, but I have to say I really wasn't that much into the detailed descriptions of landscape or such. But i really loved many of the epic stories,
Also, I'll have to dissappoint most of you, I'm not that much a fan of Fingolfin (actually, all the elven names and those eternal livng guys which pop up once in a while confuse me a little)
My favourite throughout the book was Turin, eternal loser and dragon-slaying badass. Come on, he was cursed by the Devil because of his badass father's stubborness and still managed to be one of the most feared and most dangerous men in middle earth ever. Imagine what he'd been like if he had not been cursed like that. His father's wasn't any better I guess, but he failed in the end by getting used by Morgoth. Too bad.


Though, it is kind of hard to read even in German (and I'd guess English is even worse) but it's definitely worth it for anyone that's into fantasy.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Ah, yes, Turin and Hurin. Another pair of incredible characters. I love the Tale of the Children of Hurin. Classic stuff there.

[Helanna]

Although personally, I prefer "Nightfall" to "Time Stands Still".

Actually, I do too, but I still think Time Stands Still is more 'epic'-y, whereas Nightfall is softer and more melodic, which I prefer. Although I do love Time Stands Still because of the way the vocals change to reflect who's 'speaking'.

Also, something reminded me of one of my favorite lines from the Silmarillion (paraphrase):

A liar can get others to do both their reaping and their sowing for them.

I just love that line because of the implications. "No really, just lie constantly and eventually, people will do everything for you!"

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Hurin and Turin have always been my favourite, though Fingolfin comes in close second.