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lyko555
2009-05-23, 08:10 PM
I was wondering if there were rules for creating new items, and if so where they would be found. I want to make a pair of gloves of storing mixed with the handy haversack.

Its going to be a roleplay type item Im building an archivist and rather than having him worship any one god, i want him to have every holy symble possible. I was hoping to make the gloves be able to store holy symbls only.

( was thinking of the scene in the mummy movie where the guy started praying to god finished the prayer switched holy symbls and started again until he hit the right language/god.)

JackMage666
2009-05-23, 09:13 PM
Back of the DMG, but you're getting pretty specialized.

Given that it's mostly fluff reasons (though you'll never be caught without a Focus), I'd say 500 GP. It's magical, has slight uses, but also takes up a pretty decent item slot. This price is ONLY if you're storing holy symbols, and nothing else, though.

lyko555
2009-05-23, 09:38 PM
Thanks ill re read the back of the book again :)

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-24, 11:50 AM
It sounds like maybe a custom holy symbol would be more appropriate. One that changes shape when you speak a command word followed by the name of a deity. At a guess, that might be worth, what, a hundred gold? Something like...

Symbol of All Gods
This ordinary-looking wooden (un)holy symbol changes shape on command. Hold it in your hand and speak the words "Aid me, [name of deity]" and it will become the symbol of the god whose name is spoken.

Moderate transmutation; CL 4th; Craft Wondrous Item, fabricate or wood shape, consecrate (for holy symbol) or desecrate (for unholy symbol); Price 100 gp.

shadzar
2009-05-24, 12:34 PM
I wouldn't even worry with the handy haversack approach.

Just modify the girdle of many pouches (similar to haversack) into gloves.

I never understood why people just didn't alter the item to something else.

In this case it seems a perfect reason to do so, and nothing says that an X of many pouches much be a girdle.

The whole problem with item slots and such is people miss out on the possibility that it can be done another way, so long as you retain the maximum number of magic items worn for whichever game/edition of D&D.

No harm no foul form what I can tell to just make the girdle into a pair of gloves with the same properties. You item just appears in your hand rather than having to dig it out, so may be a higher cost for the ease of access feature.

Great item for those people with many weapons that could fit in the pouches for swapping out weapons on the fly, or wizards for spell components to have them just appear in their hand.

Then again, a thief could also just pocket a stolen gem or so in the gloves and no one would ever be the wiser.

Perfect item for all classes.

So long as the things can fit within 1 cubic foot and weigh less than 10 pounds per pouch.

lyko555
2009-05-25, 09:10 PM
I wouldn't even worry with the handy haversack approach.

Just modify the girdle of many pouches (similar to haversack) into gloves.

I never understood why people just didn't alter the item to something else.

In this case it seems a perfect reason to do so, and nothing says that an X of many pouches much be a girdle.

The whole problem with item slots and such is people miss out on the possibility that it can be done another way, so long as you retain the maximum number of magic items worn for whichever game/edition of D&D.

No harm no foul form what I can tell to just make the girdle into a pair of gloves with the same properties. You item just appears in your hand rather than having to dig it out, so may be a higher cost for the ease of access feature.

Great item for those people with many weapons that could fit in the pouches for swapping out weapons on the fly, or wizards for spell components to have them just appear in their hand.

Then again, a thief could also just pocket a stolen gem or so in the gloves and no one would ever be the wiser.

Perfect item for all classes.

So long as the things can fit within 1 cubic foot and weigh less than 10 pounds per pouch.

:D I hadnt thought about that. I think thats exactly what ill do. Thanks

Saintheart
2009-05-25, 09:44 PM
The whole problem with item slots and such is people miss out on the possibility that it can be done another way, so long as you retain the maximum number of magic items worn for whichever game/edition of D&D.

No harm no foul form what I can tell to just make the girdle into a pair of gloves with the same properties. You item just appears in your hand rather than having to dig it out, so may be a higher cost for the ease of access feature.

The problem, at least in 3.5e, is that there are some rules that do cover whether you can assign a particular enhancement to a particular body slot. It's broadly thematic considerations that apply, and the MIC has some rules on it, but as an example, you can't get Boots of Charisma.

On the other hand, circumventing the "only two rings on the hands" under 3.5e doesn't seem that difficult, and certainly doesn't need a Hand of Glory. My old 3.0 DMG (might have changed with 3.5) seems to say it's simply a matter of cost.

Let's say you've got a Ring of Sustenance and you want to combine that with a Ring of Protection +1. DMG says you can add a new magical property, but the cost of adding the second feature is double what it would normally be if the second item was made normally. Ring of Sustenance costs you 2,500 IIRC, and Ring of Protection +1 1,000 gp. Combining these into a Ring of Sustenance and Protection +1 therefore costs 2,500 + 2x1,000 = 4,500 gp.

If your party's allowed to use the crafting rules, this gets funkier, since gold costs are halved if a party member is crafting and you're providing a small amount of XP to create it. Say you've got the Ring of Sustenance, and you appeal to the cleric in the party with his Craft Wondrous Item feat to build you a Ring of Sustenance and Protection +1. Adding the Protection +1 should cost you 2,000 gold to add ... but because you're crafting it, it'll be 1,000 gold instead because costs are halved. And hey presto, you've stacked two rings into one for the same cost as it would to buy both rings and wear them on both hands. If my interpretation is right.

shadzar
2009-05-26, 08:37 AM
The problem, at least in 3.5e, is that there are some rules that do cover whether you can assign a particular enhancement to a particular body slot. It's broadly thematic considerations that apply, and the MIC has some rules on it, but as an example, you can't get Boots of Charisma.

Says who?

Does Monte Cook, Jonathan Tweet, or Skip Williams DM your game?

No?

Then what they say or think don't matter, neither do any of the other people that are still at WotC. Note: None of those people are still employed at WotC!

Likewise Dave Noonan, Mike Mearls, or the others can tell you what kind of items you can have for 4th.

Here it the mechanic in a nutshell:
-You can have X number of magic items total
-You can have X number of magic items per body location
-You can have only X number of magic items contribute to a stat bonus.

If there is a character that is a bard and wants to wear ballet shoes of charisma because he dances for his bardic abilities, then who are those people to say this fop can't flitter around daintily in his little pink shoes?

So many people are worried about the exact items listed than to think for themselves about why was it said as it was. Because they cannot fit an item per slot in the books and get people to buy a 1000+ page book that has each and every combination of bonus~item~slot in it.

Don't get caught up in the trappings of "da rules" when it is something that really doesn't matter.

As for the rings, ir is and always dumb the idea of only one per hand. Mandarin and many other characters pulled off a ring per finger very nicely. The easiest way around that would be that only one ring per hand can be in use at a given time, but you can have one ring per finger. Of course this still sucks for the one-handed PC, but 5 rings is better than 1 to choose from. :smalltongue:

Look at what the rule is there for and why, and make the rule as basic as it is and decide how to use it for your game. If you want Boots of Charisma, there is no reason that they cannot work, unless some lame excuse is made up like with 4th edition item slots. Magical bonuses add the bonus magically to the wearer, so where on the body it is should have no concern on whether it works or not. IT IS MAGIC!

It isn't like your feet are SCSI ports, and your hands are E-IDE your head USB, etc. Use common sense and not the rationale of someone that wrote a book and you have never met, nor heard their full reason for creating a rule about something. Just make sure you follow those basic rules as above for magic items as they appear in the system you are playing, and they remain standard for all PC/NPC/etc in the game.

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-26, 05:40 PM
If you want Boots of Charisma, there is no reason that they cannot work, unless some lame excuse is made up like with 4th edition item slots. Magical bonuses add the bonus magically to the wearer, so where on the body it is should have no concern on whether it works or not. IT IS MAGIC!
I'm not following you. Is your argument essentially "Magic can work however one says it works, because it's an entirely fictional force introduced by the author, rather than anything from the real world"?

If so, wouldn't that mean that it's in fact entirely legitimate to say that item slots have their RAW affinities? Why couldn't one say that magic works that way?


It isn't like your feet are SCSI ports, and your hands are E-IDE your head USB, etc.
That's basically how magic item slots work, though. Magic of Incarnum deals with this a bit more thoroughly, I think.

This sort of sympathetic magic is a part of the setting. Bat poo is a material component for fireball because it's flammable, a dart is the focus for acid arrow because it's a projectile, magic that effects your movement is most easily added to boots because you use your feet for locomotion. This sort of thing adds flavor. Having magic not just work however gives the impression that magic has its rules and reasons, even if you don't know exactly what they are. And that's a good impression to give for spells and magic items. If magic can be harnessed by a spellcaster, it makes sense that it's understandable. Heck, there's even a skill (Spellcraft) for magical pattern recognition.

shadzar
2009-05-26, 07:09 PM
I'm not following you. Is your argument essentially "Magic can work however one says it works, because it's an entirely fictional force introduced by the author, rather than anything from the real world"?

If so, wouldn't that mean that it's in fact entirely legitimate to say that item slots have their RAW affinities? Why couldn't one say that magic works that way?

Yes and no.

What dictates how you wield a bladed weapon? Only the handle of it. A blade can be used on many numerous body parts. Magic can do more than a blade, so doesn't care if you wear boots of speed because it is affecting your body no matter where it is. It confers its ability to the wearer. It doesn't go on the feet just because it makes your feet and legs stronger. If it did then the boots of speed, would confer more than just the ability to travel faster, and should be applied to anything where the legs are used as they are the power source for locomotion that grant any speed.

So the magic affects not the exact location where the item sits, but something about the fabric of the universe that is connected to the wearer that alters how this wearer functions when in contact with the magic item.

Likewise there is really no RF interference with magic so it shouldn't matter a headband of speed to be legit when you take away the notion that the location is directly being affected by the magic, and remit it to the wearer of the item is affected.

To give a 3.5 example, of my favorite item to demonstrate how location isn't the ral cause of the magic item to work, take Ioun Stones. These items don't even touch the wearer when functioning, yet the pale blue rhomboid one gives a bonus to strength. Now how is this thing floating around your head not even touching you giving you strength if a specific location is needed? How can it affect your arms to hit better and deliver more damage, or to lift more when not in contact with your arms?

Shouldn't this stone be worn on the hands to function under strict item slot location requirements in order to confer a strength bonus?

So if this stone can function in an "improper" location, then what is to say anything else really need be for the location it was created for, other than it has been handed down through the editions as such a name?

So why does a girdle of many pouches have to be a girdle and cannot be gloves?

MAybe your world fluff tells of how this must be in the creation method, but it is not so spelled out for most editions because you are supposed to think for yourself how to implement these items cohesively with the rules given.

You cannot have an item in each allowed spot that offers a strength bonus, but you shouldn't need to have them be located only on the hands (see Pale blue rhomboid Ioun stone) in order to give a strength bonus.

So if you so chose to follow the ordained method of item slot/functionality, you MAY; but are not required to. (Unless in a strict CORE RAW RPGA environment.)

So take Gary's (may he rest in peace) well put advice, and use your imagination. Change things within your group that work for you and make your characters fun for you, including ballet slippers of charisma, or gloves of many pouches if you wish to.

Lamech
2009-05-26, 10:13 PM
Question of the OP's: I do believe their is a level 0 spell called summon holy symbol. This is perfect. Make the gloves a "continuous" version of that, and make sure the gloves have a method of changing the holy symbol. 1000gp For double the price you can have the magic item woven into the gloves somehow; i.e. no slot, the magic item just happens to be in a glove. Kinda like putting something in a backpack.

P.S. Did that all from memory might want to check it...

@shadzar: And those stones are more expensive. If I recall correctly, their was a side bar about this that basically said raise the cost a bit if it doesn't fit in the "right" slot.

Saintheart
2009-05-26, 10:22 PM
Says who?

Does Monte Cook, Jonathan Tweet, or Skip Williams DM your game?

No?

Then what they say or think don't matter, neither do any of the other people that are still at WotC. Note: None of those people are still employed at WotC!

Likewise Dave Noonan, Mike Mearls, or the others can tell you what kind of items you can have for 4th.

Here it the mechanic in a nutshell:
-You can have X number of magic items total
-You can have X number of magic items per body location
-You can have only X number of magic items contribute to a stat bonus.

If there is a character that is a bard and wants to wear ballet shoes of charisma because he dances for his bardic abilities, then who are those people to say this fop can't flitter around daintily in his little pink shoes?

So many people are worried about the exact items listed than to think for themselves about why was it said as it was. Because they cannot fit an item per slot in the books and get people to buy a 1000+ page book that has each and every combination of bonus~item~slot in it.

Don't get caught up in the trappings of "da rules" when it is something that really doesn't matter.

As for the rings, ir is and always dumb the idea of only one per hand. Mandarin and many other characters pulled off a ring per finger very nicely. The easiest way around that would be that only one ring per hand can be in use at a given time, but you can have one ring per finger. Of course this still sucks for the one-handed PC, but 5 rings is better than 1 to choose from. :smalltongue:

Look at what the rule is there for and why, and make the rule as basic as it is and decide how to use it for your game. If you want Boots of Charisma, there is no reason that they cannot work, unless some lame excuse is made up like with 4th edition item slots. Magical bonuses add the bonus magically to the wearer, so where on the body it is should have no concern on whether it works or not. IT IS MAGIC!

It isn't like your feet are SCSI ports, and your hands are E-IDE your head USB, etc. Use common sense and not the rationale of someone that wrote a book and you have never met, nor heard their full reason for creating a rule about something. Just make sure you follow those basic rules as above for magic items as they appear in the system you are playing, and they remain standard for all PC/NPC/etc in the game.

Short version of the above--

Rule 0: DM > any specific rule, indeed any rule, in the book.

And I've no argument at all with that. I would have guessed there was some sort of game balance reason for why they instituted such rules, but as you say, they're not around to explain the mechanic. And as you (and Aslan) said: "YES, CHILDREN ... IT IS MAGIC!" :smallcool:

shadzar
2009-05-26, 10:24 PM
@shadzar: And those stones are more expensive. If I recall correctly, their was a side bar about this that basically said raise the cost a bit if it doesn't fit in the "right" slot.

Not in 3.5. It just had them listed in the DMG, unless I was always told how to use them wrongly. But only found a single Ioun stone in 4th so far in the PHB.


And as you (and Aslan) said: "YES, CHILDREN ... IT IS MAGIC!" :smallcool:

:smalleek: Does that mean I have to shave and be murdered on a stone table now?

Kornaki
2009-05-26, 10:34 PM
The problem, at least in 3.5e, is that there are some rules that do cover whether you can assign a particular enhancement to a particular body slot. It's broadly thematic considerations that apply, and the MIC has some rules on it, but as an example, you can't get Boots of Charisma.

I could have sworn it said somewhere that the boots of charisma would just cost 50% more than the cloak of charisma

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-27, 03:51 PM
Magic can do more than a blade, so doesn't care if you wear boots of speed because it is affecting your body no matter where it is.
That doesn't follow. Magic being able to do things that a sword can't do doesn't mean that magic boots can't enhance speed more easily than magic gloves.


Not in 3.5. It just had them listed in the DMG, unless I was always told how to use them wrongly.
I am afraid that you are incorrect, my good sir. The body slot affinities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#bodySlotAffinities) are explained at the bottom of DMG p. 288.

Once again: It's sympathetic magic. It's part of the setting. It's how magic works in D&D. Having someone's hair makes scrying on him way easier. How does that work? I don't know; I'm not a wizard. But obviously magic must be able to do some things more easily than others, in order for spell levels to work as they do.

The principle is simple: A thing or property can most easily be manipulated via a related thing. Again, it makes sense that such recognizable principles would exist, in a setting where magic is understandable to at least some degree. Having such recurring thaumaturgical principles thus adds verisimilitude to the setting.

shadzar
2009-05-27, 04:12 PM
That doesn't follow. Magic being able to do things that a sword can't do doesn't mean that magic boots can't enhance speed more easily than magic gloves.
Why? I wish someone would explain to me with all this garbage ever spouted out why magic cares where the item is located?


I am afraid that you are incorrect, my good sir. The body slot affinities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#bodySlotAffinities) are explained at the bottom of DMG p. 288.

Again see the price listed themselves. This is not an altered location item. Ioun stones are made and the price presented for them. It states not that the price is already increase because the one raises strength while floating around you head, not does it tell you you should raise the price for that one because it was not already adjusted.

It just says there that changing the location may warrant an additional price as it would be a not normal item...a custom item.

But this is ALL only in the mind of the people writing the book.

In any edition tell me where it defines why boots are the only things that can affect your speed or movement rate?

Then after you do that, then explain to me if footwear is the only thing that can, how would a cloak of flying even be able to exist? Cloak turns into wings, but so what. It must be worn on your feet to affect your movement at all because of slot affinity? :smalleek:

DUMB!

There was never any thought to where items belonged because they only worked there. The items were just presented as how best constructed and would look for the current popular ideas of items such as that, or taken directly from existing items in other people's work, and just plopped into D&D.

Give me any real reasonable explanation why only footwear can alter movement without saying...cause the book says so.

There isn't one. Why? Because again, it does not change you legs or feet, it changes only the metagame ability known as and referred to as movement/speed/etc.

I don't play the metagame, I play D&D, and within the "confines" of the game, there is NO reason for footwear to be the only thing that alters speed. :smallwink:

Lapak
2009-05-27, 04:20 PM
Give me any real reasonable explanation why only footwear can alter movement without saying...cause the book says so.

There isn't one. Why? Because again, it does not change you legs or feet, it changes only the metagame ability known as and referred to as movement/speed/etc.

I don't play the metagame, I play D&D, and within the "confines" of the game, there is NO reason for footwear to be the only thing that alters speed. :smallwink:I suspect it has at least as much to do with the traditional stories that D&D draws on. Seven-league boots and such are familiar to many of us; there are no fairy tales, legends, or myths I'm aware of where a hat has a similar effect, but cloaks and hats and rings of invisibility crop up all over the place while Shoes of Invisibility are conspicuously absent. Thor had a belt and gloves that gave him strength; Hercules had a lion-skin cloak that shielded him from harm. That, to me, seems to be the basis for these rules - tradition.

That said, the traditional stories make a certain amount of sense. A cloak is designed to shield your body from the elements; a man lifting heavy rocks might wear a belt to stabilize his abdominal muscles and gloves to protect his hands. We wear running shoes when we want to go faster, and associate our senses and minds with the head because that's where most of those things are resident.

EDIT: The important bit is that these traditions didn't arise out of nothing; the arms and waist DO have a lot to do with your muscle power, your feet and legs DO have a lot to do with how fast you move, and there's no reason that magical effects centering around these things wouldn't be most effective when localized in those areas.

Zeful
2009-05-27, 04:39 PM
Why? I wish someone would explain to me with all this garbage ever spouted out why magic cares where the item is located?



Again see the price listed themselves. This is not an altered location item. Ioun stones are made and the price presented for them. It states not that the price is already increase because the one raises strength while floating around you head, not does it tell you you should raise the price for that one because it was not already adjusted.

It just says there that changing the location may warrant an additional price as it would be a not normal item...a custom item.

But this is ALL only in the mind of the people writing the book.

In any edition tell me where it defines why boots are the only things that can affect your speed or movement rate?

Then after you do that, then explain to me if footwear is the only thing that can, how would a cloak of flying even be able to exist? Cloak turns into wings, but so what. It must be worn on your feet to affect your movement at all because of slot affinity? :smalleek:

DUMB!

There was never any thought to where items belonged because they only worked there. The items were just presented as how best constructed and would look for the current popular ideas of items such as that, or taken directly from existing items in other people's work, and just plopped into D&D.

Give me any real reasonable explanation why only footwear can alter movement without saying...cause the book says so.

There isn't one. Why? Because again, it does not change you legs or feet, it changes only the metagame ability known as and referred to as movement/speed/etc.

I don't play the metagame, I play D&D, and within the "confines" of the game, there is NO reason for footwear to be the only thing that alters speed. :smallwink:

It's called sympathetic magic. Like affects like. By having a piece of something I can find the whole it belongs too. It's why having something belonging to someone makes it easier to scry on them. Sulfur mixed with bat guano (fireball spell components) makes something flammable, which allows you to call fire for a spell. Since your boots are what protects your feet during locomotion, and can even assist locomotion, it's easier for magic to alter your locomotion if it's close to your feet. An Ioun Stone of haste has to expend more energy to act upon you (air, then head, torso, and legs) then boots of haste (feet, then legs). This extra energy (xp) has to be added to the stone in order to even get the spell to act, making the creation of an Ioun Stone of Haste cost more for the creator, then Boots of Haste for the same effect.

And what Lapak said.

shadzar
2009-05-27, 05:14 PM
EDIT: The important bit is that these traditions didn't arise out of nothing; the arms and waist DO have a lot to do with your muscle power, your feet and legs DO have a lot to do with how fast you move, and there's no reason that magical effects centering around these things wouldn't be most effective when localized in those areas.

While most of this is true, the problem lies in the last part....most effective when localized....

There is no reason for magic to function on the basis of anatomy or real-world physics.

If it does, then it violates most magic in the game. Fly, Levitate, Feather Fall, etc. and anything that violates the law of conservation of mass and energy.


it's easier for magic to alter your locomotion if it's close to your feet. An Ioun Stone of haste has to expend more energy to act upon you (air, then head, torso, and legs) then boots of haste (feet, then legs). This extra energy (xp) has to be added to the stone in order to even get the spell to act, making the creation of an Ioun Stone of Haste cost more for the creator, then Boots of Haste for the same effect.

And what Lapak said.

Magic is not sympathetic, it is the people who don't get it. Yes many items come from myth and are left that way, but many things just make no sense at all.

By what you all are saying a Bag of Holding must alter the users strength in order to confer its weight reducing qualities of the items inside it, and then must be worn on the waist of hands to function. :smalleek: WHAT?

See it is just dumb to assume that any magic affect must relate to a body part.

Mercury/Hermes did not wear a cloak. How many birds do you see flapping their feet? Oh right he was a god and gods can defy any common sense, but magic must follow some synergy crap? Please!

The only reason people are currently sticking with this idea is because of MMOs, and WotC editions of D&D.

Myhtology is riddled with conflicting magic concepts. Just because someone popular did it one way doesn't mean that is the only way to do it. Look at Vancian casting in 4th edition for proof of that. :smalleek: OOPS! It's gone!

And ONLY 3.x has this XP crap to make items. Don't include that abomination of sanity into any real argument.

Tell me does a haste spell only affect a persons feet? Then how would it work on creatures without feet, maybe ones that swim?

Because magic doesn't care. Like electricity, you stick your foot or hand on a live power line you run the same risk of getting shocked bad. Doesn't mean a thing. Magic likewise flows like electricity ANYWHERE it wants to to perform the task, and will get their taking the shortest route.

If there is some affinity then explain however a Ring of Invisibility ever made any sense, and go tell people on a LotR forum that it should never word and the ring couldn't do that because it must have been a cloak to do that because of the slot affinity.

Magica is not an artificial limb for those missing their own. It is not cybernetics that require being in the same location you are used to using such as a foot with the enhance speeds. This isn't the $6 million dollar man whose legs must be enhanced to run faster.

It is MAGIC for crying out loud!

Have the people playing D&D lost any sort of imagination in this day and age them must fbe spoon-fed everything?

Chris Youngs [name pulled randomly, insert any D&D designer here] said only items on the feet can give speed boosts, so it is impossible for anything else to do it!

It doesn't make the most sense, nor is an item in a specific location the most plausible way for it to function to grant some type of enhancement. That is why it is magic, not physics/biology/etc.

If you can define the formula for real-world equivalent to magic that says speed can only be enhanced by items on your feet, then I will believe you, until then I just cannot see how people are so closed-minded about something that is so simple as to have no boundaries for its abilities. I surely hope, since you cannot convince me to think inside your boxes, that you are force feeding this line to other people to stifle their own creativity and imagination to conform to your ideas of these things. :smallconfused:

Zeful
2009-05-27, 05:43 PM
While most of this is true, the problem lies in the last part....most effective when localized....

There is no reason for magic to function on the basis of anatomy or real-world physics.

If it does, then it violates most magic in the game. Fly, Levitate, Feather Fall, etc. and anything that violates the law of conservation of mass and energy.Real world physics do not apply in D&D.


Mercury/Hermes did not wear a cloak. How many birds do you see flapping their feet? Oh right he was a god and gods can defy any common sense, but magic must follow some synergy crap? Please!
Hermes' Winged Boots, which allow him to fly, are where we get Boots of Flying.

More importantly, It's magic it follows whatever rules the author tells us. This is not debatable. Page 285 3.5 DMG, table 7-33: Uncustomary Space Limitation3. 3: See the Sidebar on Body Slot Affinities, page 288. Page 288, Body Slot Affinities Sidebar. Body Slot: Boots, Affinity: Movement.
The rules tell us that it's harder for magic to affect your movement unless it's on your boots. That's how we are told magic works. Therefore that's how magic works.

Further you seem to be missing the point, so I'll spell it out for you.

Magic does not exist. And in the fiction where it does it is the author's job to define whatever limits there may be for it. It does not, and never will, matter how you or I think magic works unless you or I are the author defining it. In D&D we have the rules on how magic behaves written for us. As such most of your post is just wrong as it contradicts those rules. Get used to it.

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-27, 05:48 PM
shadzar, why do you feel that it's so much better for magic NOT to be sympathetic?

I already told you why I think it's a good thing: It adds verisimilitude because we're already dealing with a setting where

(a) magic can't do everything equally easily (or else all spellcasters would be omnipotent) and
(b) magic is understandable (for wizardry to work).

That means that it only makes sense that there should be understandable principles about how magic can do some things more easily than others.

I see you attacking a lot of straw men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man), e.g.:


By what you all are saying a Bag of Holding must alter the users strength in order to confer its weight reducing qualities of the items inside it, and then must be worn on the waist of hands to function.
I certainly didn't see anyone suggesting that all magic must work on a body part.


This is not an altered location item. Ioun stones are made and the price presented for them. It states not that the price is already increase because the one raises strength while floating around you head, not does it tell you you should raise the price for that one because it was not already adjusted.
Read the Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values table in the Creating Magic Items
(http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) section. Ioun stones are specifically given as having double the price they otherwise would because they have no space limitation.

A pale blue ioun stone costs twice as much Gauntlets of Ogre Power. Now you know why!


I just cannot see how people are so closed-minded about something that is so simple as to have no boundaries for its abilities.
Do you think that all spellcasters should be omnipotent? That a first-level wizard should be able to cast wish?

If not, then why are spell levels an acceptable "box", but body slot affinities not acceptable?

shadzar
2009-05-27, 06:09 PM
More importantly, It's magic it follows whatever rules the author tells us. This is not debatable.

You are so correct!


Note: Altered form of a standard ADBD item is not a new or non-standard item, i.e., a cap which causes its wearer to be invisible is the same as a ring of invisibility.

So listen to the author, and not those trying to claim to be the author of the game.

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-27, 06:17 PM
So, 3E magic works differently from 1E magic.

That darned Vecna, eh?

shadzar
2009-05-27, 06:29 PM
So, 3E magic works differently from 1E magic.

That darned Vecna, eh?

The point still remains. Neither author can be correct in all of D&D. But which explanation makes more sense?

Magic only works when at the right place, or magic works however it works without some rule trying to define where you can wear it?

Often the simplest explanation is the correct one. :smallwink:

It all boils down to the important rules, rather than the arbitrary restrictions. Even those can be arbitrary. How many items total, how many of ability X function together, and how many per body part?

As long as you stick with those, no item will cause problems because you won't have someone wearing 13 strength items for their barbarian, or 13 dex items for a ranger, etc.

I HATE saying this, but you may need to look more at RAI than RAW.

:yuk: I hate both RAI and RAW as terms for anything!

Tiki Snakes
2009-05-27, 06:52 PM
Personally, I can't help but feel that the concept of having any-old magic effect on any old type of item feels a wee bit twinky. A little computer-gamish, (to a small degree reminding me of the random items in Diablo2, and so on, that would combine a number of factors, enchantments and bonuses and were for the most part randomly generated.)

Having a solid theme to the types of magic items you are likely to find makes the rules for such items feel more part of an implied game-world rather than a disembodied way of giving your character a bonus to Stat-X.

I just can't see a need for Boots of Charisma, really, save getting a better mechanical bonus out of combining a charisma bonus with another type of effect usually gained by wearing another type of magic item that uses the same slot? It really doesn't feel like it's likely to be done for Flavour reasons, barring the occaisional comedy campaign, which is really another matter entirely.
Insert endurance-related equipment blue-jokes here.

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-27, 09:47 PM
But which explanation makes more sense?

Magic only works when at the right place, or magic works however it works without some rule trying to define where you can wear it?
Definitely the former, in D&D. Its magic is rule magic. You have to make the right gestures, say the right incantations, use the right materials. You can't just do things however you want and get results.

Heck, if waving your arms around any darned way and spouting random gibberish could get you whatever magical effect you wanted, everyone would be a spellcaster. Which would make for an interesting setting, but definitely a non-standard one. It would certainly be different from D&D, where magic is scientific in that you get the results you want by doing things right.


It all boils down to the important rules, rather than the arbitrary restrictions.
Well, the body slot affinities are hardly arbitrary. You could argue that they're unimportant.


I HATE saying this, but you may need to look more at RAI than RAW.
The rules I'm pointing out would appear to function as intended. They lay out limitations deliberately, not as an inadvertent side effect of something else.