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Kilmrak
2009-05-24, 10:01 AM
I am working on a character for 3.5 D&D campaign thats expected to run till 20th level and I could really use the help of the playgrounders. I am trying to make him like a spartan, I know that spartan's were best as a team but I mostly want to replicate the armor and specialize in the weapons they used the Spear, Short Sword and Shield(as both a shield and a weapon). I can use any book except for Tome of Battle and setting specific books. I would prefer the race to be Human and my DM says I can use a spear one handed so no issues with shield and spear. I mostly just need feat advice because I will probably be a fighter unless there is a better class for it. Thanks in advance.

Keld Denar
2009-05-24, 10:09 AM
Blah....you ARE kinda pigeonholed, mechanically. Using a weapon + shield in D&D is...mechanically inferior. Your damage output suffers, and your defenses don't really make up for it. Without Tome of Battle, its really tough to make this concept work.

What would you think about playing a Bard? Lots of ancient Greeks were warriors AND poets, and this would be much more mechanically strong than a plain ol' fighter.

What do you think?

Human Bard20
1 Melodic Casting (CMage), Improved Shield Bash (CWarrior)
3 Song of the Heart (ECS)
6 TWF
9 ITWF
12 Shield Ward
15 GTWF
18 Agile Shield Fighter (PHBII)

This would get you a decent Inspire Courage, which would give you bonus to hit and bonus damage on your hits AND boost your allies. Individually, you'll be pretty effective, and you'll make your whole party better as well. You'll use both your spear AND your shield as weapons most of the time, just like the Spartans did.

Take like, Perform (Epic Ballad) or something, and sing songs about the gods, the heros, and those darned Athenians while you bath in the blood of your enemies.

Kilmrak
2009-05-24, 10:18 AM
Thanks it looks like a good build but it doesn't fit the image I had or the military background I had planned for him.

Edwin
2009-05-24, 10:40 AM
You could always just go for a charge and then power attack the lulz out of the baddies.

You might, as mentioned, be mechanically.. challenged.. in comparison to most other builds, but with a decent strength score the multipliers will add up.

Bonus points if you logde your shield between the enemies teeth, two-hand with your spear and go to town.

Berserk Monk
2009-05-24, 10:46 AM
For feats, take the obvious for the spear:

weapon focus
weapon specialization
greater weapon focus
greater weapon specialization
improved critical
You also might want to take a look at a feat called monkey grip (increase weapon size for more damage).

There are also tactics for certain weapon combos in complete warrior.

Also take power attack, cleave, and great cleave.

You might also want to go barbarian for the rage. You could also go cleric. Spartans were very religious, not to mention the have some nice spells for melee (bull's strength, bear's endurance, righteous might).

Keld Denar
2009-05-24, 10:49 AM
Thanks it looks like a good build but it doesn't fit the image I had or the military background I had planned for him.

Background is background. It has NO business being in character build. You don't have to write "Fighter" at the top of your character sheet to have gone to military school. As long as you are strong and quick and have good leadership skills, they'll take you. Google something called the Stormwind Falacy. It preaches the divorce of character build and character roleplay. If the idea fits your concept, why should it matter if it says Fighter or Bard at the top of the page? Or Fighter/Bard/Paladin/Barbarian/Swashbuckler for that matter? Your character doesn't know what class levels he has, or how many of each he has. Only that he's good at leading people in battle, stabbin folks with his spear, and smackin folks up with his shield...sometimes at the same time.

Background is whatever you say it is.

Build is whatever you'll have fun playing.

Flickerdart
2009-05-24, 10:53 AM
For feats, take the obvious for the spear:

weapon focus
weapon specialization
greater weapon focus
greater weapon specialization
improved critical
You also might want to take a look at a feat called monkey grip (increase weapon size for more damage).

There are also tactics for certain weapon combos in complete warrior.

Also take power attack, cleave, and great cleave.

You might also want to go barbarian for the rage. You could also go cleric. Spartans were very religious, not to mention the have some nice spells for melee (bull's strength, bear's endurance, righteous might).
Those feats, except for PA, are a waste of time, since they give tiny numerical bonuses instead of new abilities, such as Robilar's Gambit. Cleave can be useful sometimes, Great Cleave is generally not, except against mooks that you can kill at your leisure anyways.

If you want a more war-oriented class, the Warlord might be useful. Still inspires allies, but the fluff is closer to what you want.

Kilmrak
2009-05-24, 10:59 AM
Background is background. It has NO business being in character build. You don't have to write "Fighter" at the top of your character sheet to have gone to military school. As long as you are strong and quick and have good leadership skills, they'll take you. Google something called the Stormwind Falacy. It preaches the divorce of character build and character roleplay. If the idea fits your concept, why should it matter if it says Fighter or Bard at the top of the page? Or Fighter/Bard/Paladin/Barbarian/Swashbuckler for that matter? Your character doesn't know what class levels he has, or how many of each he has. Only that he's good at leading people in battle, stabbin folks with his spear, and smackin folks up with his shield...sometimes at the same time.

Background is whatever you say it is.

Build is whatever you'll have fun playing.


I do agree with your statement but I guess I want a martial build, something with no access to magic but I am okay with special abilities and whatnot.

Keld Denar
2009-05-24, 11:20 AM
Is better to have spells and not use them then to not have spells and want them.

If you take mostly buff style spells, especially combat buffs like Haste, you can just say they are an extention of your extraordinary leadership skills. Mechanically, they'll still be spells, but RP wise, they'll be strong words of encouragement that help you and your allies strike harder, faster, avoid blows, and in general be better at what you want them to be better at...stabbing and smacking. Just don't take flashy spells like Glitterdust. Heck, bards get Fear as a 3rd level spell, you could RP it off as a roar of defiance which makes your enemies cower before you or flee in panic.

The greatest thing about a roleplaying game, is that you have a mechanics skeleton to build on, and you can flesh things out however you want.

Everyone knocks on ToB because of the "style". Thats primarily because they are not imaginative enough to refluff it the way they want.

Mechanics are mechanics.

Fluff is fluff.

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-24, 02:20 PM
If you want inspirational abilities that are free of magical fluff to start with, check out the Marshal class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b).

Incidentally, I like the idea that you could use a spear 1-handed as a martial weapon. Like using a bastard sword 1-handed as an exotic weapon.

only1doug
2009-05-24, 02:45 PM
I am working on a character for 3.5 D&D campaign thats expected to run till 20th level and I could really use the help of the playgrounders. I am trying to make him like a spartan, I know that spartan's were best as a team but I mostly want to replicate the armor and specialize in the weapons they used the Spear, Short Sword and Shield(as both a shield and a weapon). I can use any book except for Tome of Battle and setting specific books. I would prefer the race to be Human and my DM says I can use a spear one handed so no issues with shield and spear. I mostly just need feat advice because I will probably be a fighter unless there is a better class for it. Thanks in advance.

So if I read you right you want your character to have a full base attack bonus, be lightly armoured, use light weaponry, maybe be fast moving? absolutely no magic.

skirmisher type role but capable of holding the line if required.


Scout or Barbarian seem ideal base classes to me.

Barbarian: PHB class, rage to increase str and con, Full BAB, Fast movement

Scout: (complete adventurer), Skirmish damage (like Sneak attack but only when moving), 3/4 BAB, Fast movement, other abilities but no magic.

Goatman_Ted
2009-05-25, 05:06 AM
I fully support Scout, Barbarian or any combination of the two.

The other options that stand out at me are:

Fighter: Take the Dungeoncrasher (Dung) and Resolute (CC) ACFs, grab Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper (CW) and head into a melee class of your choice.

Psychic Warrior: I can see how this pushes the boundries toward anime/wuxia/whatever, but it's one of the best classes at nearly everything. Sword & Board is no exception. Pick and refluff powers to be less flashy and you might get this to fit. Its main selling point is also its downside -- if you're quadrupling in size and throwing javelins around ccorners from a low level, you'll look like you're quadrupling in size and throwing javelins around corners at a low level.

Cleric: Take Law Devotion and burn a couple Turn Attempts for a respectable attack bonus. Head into Ordained Champion and pick up the Holy Warrior feat (all CC). From there, you're pretty much set.

Druid: Take the Ascetic Hunter-style ACF (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid) in UA. Restrict yourself to mundane-seeming spells like Bull's Strength, Barkskin, Longstrider -- effects that don't have to change your appearance or look magical... at least until you've established yourself as a legendary figure. Keep an appropriate animal companion like a Wolf or Lion (not a dire bat, weasel, tyrannosaur or any of that lot).

I can see why those last three might not jive for you, but in the long-running sort of game you describe, I'd probably use them -- as the character progresses, he'll gradually shift from being able to tend basic wounds and fight in a more or less mundane manner to being a truly fantastic figure, growing to the size of a skyscraper and turning Hobgoblins into shish kabobs.

The PHB2 and Complete Warrior Feat chains are the only ones I can think of directed at this sort of character. And neither is very good without high feat investment and high stats all around to meet prerequisites.

Garian
2009-05-25, 06:35 AM
You should use the dreaded by DM's book Tome of Battle. Its the best way to make you crazy good with the odd weapons and armor.
I assume you want to be human, otherwise I highly recommend being a Goliath from Races of Stone.

If this does not appeal to you I would go paladin/marshal maybe with a little fighter. I know some of the paladins abilities don't make sense for a spartan, but they would give you a character that is semi-powerful. I think almost all melee combat characters decreases in power as you level up.
Unless you use something like spiked chain, combat reflexes with monkey grip. Then just keep pushing that idea.

Severedevil
2009-05-25, 07:00 AM
I am working on a character for 3.5 D&D campaign thats expected to run till 20th level and I could really use the help of the playgrounders.
Do you know what power level is expected for your campaign?

Kilmrak
2009-05-25, 08:45 AM
Do you know what power level is expected for your campaign?

Probably not very high since 3 out of 5 players are relatively inexperienced, I am making this character but the other one is planing something powerful. Also the Campaign will be low magic items for awhile.

Hat-Trick
2009-05-25, 10:20 AM
Shield Specialization and Agile Shield Fighter allow you to go the shield and sword/spear route of the spartan. If you get Driving Attack as well, you can bullrush enemies you hit with a piercing weapon. It's a high level feat and needs Fighter due to weapon focus, specialization, and weapon mastery are needed.