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View Full Version : [3.5] New to Preparing Divine Spells, Advice Appreciated



Everyman
2009-05-24, 01:42 PM
Hello, all!

Well, after a few long years of being a DM, I may finally be returning to the ranks of the PCs. In honor of this occasion, I thought I'd finally take a whack at playing the only role I've never really tried: a divine caster. In order to keep things simple, I'd decided to go with a cleric (I'll explain why in a sec).

Now, I know that there is plenty of information out there on clerics. The trick is that I am trying to keep myself to just the core material as much as possible. No prestige classes (at least, not likely), no splatbooks, not even using the Spell Compendium. The reason for this is because my new DM is...well, a new DM. She's still relatively green regarding the rules, and that last thing I want to do is make life hard on her. In the same vein, I'm trying to keep things easy on myself as well, but I'm a bit intimidated at the idea of preparing spells from such as huge list. I'm not looking for cheese, but are there any spells you all recommend?

For the record, I'm playing a halfling cleric of Fharlaghn, and don't really expect to be on the front lines much (though it may be possible I have to wade through combat to heal people).

PS. I've chosen the Travel domain, but I'm torn between the Protection and Luck domains for my other choice. I'm leaning toward Luck, only because its spells don't seem to be easily replicated by the cleric spell list. Thoughts?

EarFall
2009-05-24, 02:00 PM
Hello, all!

Well, after a few long years of being a DM, I may finally be returning to the ranks of the PCs. In honor of this occasion, I thought I'd finally take a whack at playing the only role I've never really tried: a divine caster. In order to keep things simple, I'd decided to go with a cleric (I'll explain why in a sec).

Now, I know that there is plenty of information out there on clerics. The trick is that I am trying to keep myself to just the core material as much as possible. No prestige classes (at least, not likely), no splatbooks, not even using the Spell Compendium. The reason for this is because my new DM is...well, a new DM. She's still relatively green regarding the rules, and that last thing I want to do is make life hard on her. In the same vein, I'm trying to keep things easy on myself as well, but I'm a bit intimidated at the idea of preparing spells from such as huge list. I'm not looking for cheese, but are there any spells you all recommend?

For the record, I'm playing a halfling cleric of Fharlaghn, and don't really expect to be on the front lines much (though it may be possible I have to wade through combat to heal people).

PS. I've chosen the Travel domain, but I'm torn between the Protection and Luck domains for my other choice. I'm leaning toward Luck, only because its spells don't seem to be easily replicated by the cleric spell list. Thoughts?

Last question first: Luck domain has good spells, and one of the best ass-saving abilities.

As for spells, there's ONE spell I recommend you use that is outside core: close wounds. It saves countless people from death. It often leaves the unconscious, though, unless you have the augment healing feat, so it's not terribly overpowered.

Cleric spells? I guess it depends. Are you the only healer? Ten you know what to do... Magic weapon is a great spell at low levels, especially in case the dm throws something that has DR before you have natural access to it. Divine favor can be a pretty darn good spell, and of course, at higher levels, death ward, freedom of movement, and divine power are among the most overpowered spells in the entire game!

I'd avoid boom spells, usually the wizard does it better, and it's probably not your role. The exception are dual-threat spells, of course, things that do damage AND cause status effects - but using just core for clerics those spells are few and far between.

And for the love of god, if you want a GOOD and FUN game, avoid Karma Beads and Holy Word. It's just ****ing stupid. lol.

Edit regarding next post: Must be a house rule where play, I'm sorry, my bad.

monty
2009-05-24, 02:05 PM
casting a healing spell spontaneously means you can't make more than a 5 foot step that turn

Where does it say that? As far as I can tell, that's only an issue if you use metamagic, just like any other spontaneous caster.

EarFall
2009-05-24, 02:10 PM
See above, I aplogize.

derfenrirwolv
2009-05-24, 02:13 PM
Definitely go luck. You're a halfling, you're supposed to be lucky!

Also, the one re-roll a day special ability isn't just not obtainable through other spells, its unattainable through almost any other mechanism in core.

Many clerics try to be a backup fighter. While that's one route to go, if you want to stay in the back start building up feats now for when you're higher level and can cast save or die or save or be useless spells.

Remember you can spontaneously cast cure wounds, so you don't need to memorize them.

Command is a very good spell. If you command someone to flee you make them waste two rounds (one leaving and one comming back)

Magic stone isn't bad for a halfling rock chucker.

Don't overlook summon monster. (this applies at every level) Sure, it takes a whole round to cast, but you shouldn't need to move around much anyway. Learn celestial so you can talk with the good summoned critters. (you're a cleric, it becomes one of your starting languages)

Just remember you can't summon the evil creatures if you're a good cleric. For some reason ALL of the realy good monsters are evil.. go figure.


2nd: The +4 to stat spells (bears endurance, bulls strength etc) to buff your party members. This is realy good because your party won't have stat boosters at this level

Delay poison is a must. I don't go anywhere without one as a cleric.

Hold person is a save or kill spell effectively. You paralyze them, your party member coup de grace's them. Cast it on someone standing right next to a party member that hasn't acting yet and SKLERK.

Shield other is good if you're going to be a healbot. You're in the back, hey look! half the damage comes right where its easy to heal.

3rd

Continual flame - cast one for everyone
Dispel magic dispel magic and more dispel magic.
Magic vestment: One for the warriors armor, one for his shield
Stone shape: The games called DUNGEONS and dragons. Million and one uses for this from putting a hole in the wall (shape a peice of stone so it has a doughnut hole) to making a wall between you and your foes.
... and more dispel magic. Seriously, debuff your foes, rebuff your friends, and get rid of anoying creatures with blidnsense who've cast darkness on the party.


4th:

Death ward: Not quite as useful as you'd think, but sometimes its your only defense. Until i had a bunch of other spells i wouldn't memorize it UNLESS i knew i was going after undead.

Freedom of movement: Makes someone grappled PROOF. Not resistant, PROOF.

Neutralize poison at this level i'd be tempted to just memorize slow poison and only memorize this the next morning.

Poison: Con damage is NASTY. The more powerful your foe, the more this hurts

woodenbandman
2009-05-24, 02:19 PM
If you're aversed to stuff outside core for some reason, I at least suggest that you take the Thaumaturgist prestige class. It gives you access to some cool stuff related to summoning and it makes the class play a little more like a wizard ('cuz you're a bit squishier).

As for Core-only buffs? Shield of Faith is nice. True Seeing, Resist Energy (mass)(SpC has Energy immunity which is nice), and you can do the fighter thing with a few rounds to put up Divine Power and Righteous Might (consider quickening one of these at higher levels). Uh... True Seeing, Freedom of Movement, Sheltered Vitality (might be SpC but it's basically immunity to ability score damage/drain and fatigue/exhaustion), any number of summon monster spells, miracle, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment (Consider looking outside core for Chain Spell and Reach spell), Divination, Blade Barrier, Heroes' Feast... That's all I care to list for now. Oh, and Shapechange. You need the Animal domain, but it's freakin' shapechange.

EarFall
2009-05-24, 02:26 PM
If you're aversed to stuff outside core for some reason, I at least suggest that you take the Thaumaturgist prestige class. It gives you access to some cool stuff related to summoning and it makes the class play a little more like a wizard ('cuz you're a bit squishier).

As for Core-only buffs? Shield of Faith is nice. True Seeing, Resist Energy (mass)(SpC has Energy immunity which is nice), and you can do the fighter thing with a few rounds to put up Divine Power and Righteous Might (consider quickening one of these at higher levels). Uh... True Seeing, Freedom of Movement, Sheltered Vitality (might be SpC but it's basically immunity to ability score damage/drain and fatigue/exhaustion), any number of summon monster spells, miracle, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment (Consider looking outside core for Chain Spell and Reach spell), Divination, Blade Barrier, Heroes' Feast... That's all I care to list for now. Oh, and Shapechange. You need the Animal domain, but it's freakin' shapechange.

Heh, don't think Yondalla has that domain ;)

Kol Korran
2009-05-24, 02:34 PM
i am at the exact same situation as you are. i've DMed for a longtime, and i've just returned to play, and yes as a cleric, though i use one more book than you do (complete devine)

first- the domains: i personally prefer luck, if not for the spells than for the power- it can REALY come in handy, and besides- it's a lot more fun than that of protection. as a plus- it is also a more fun aspect to play! go for luck, never look back!

spells that i found usefull, from my limited experience:
0 level
i mostly go for detect magic, read magic, and detect poison. those are decent enough and used often enough

1st level
- protection from evil vs. shield of faith: p.f.e grants +2 to AC and saves from an evil source, and has other nifty effects, the most importent to my opinion is the protection against domination. shield of faith however protects against whatever enemies, but offer no bonus to saves. it does however grant better protection from level 6 and onwards. up to that level, i'd suggest go with protection vs. alignment unless you expect to meet all kind of different creatures (ot just neutral ones)

- divine favour: very, very nice mainly because it's a luck bonus, so it stack with most everything else! realy effective from level 6 and onwards it think.

- doom: nice for tough creatures with poor will saves (magical beasts, abberations and so on). i like to flavour it as a small curse ofthe deity you worship. add flavour.

- obscuring mist: many don't like it, but i do it can be a life saver if you can spare the spell slot. if you have a rogue in the part you practically give him an area from which he can sneak attack, which is nice for a 1st level spell.

for scrolls (i suggest taking scribe scroll): remove fear, comprehend languages, sanctuary

2nd level
- bull's strength, owl's wisdom, bear's endurance: all great buffs, for different purposes. especially owl wisdom if you want to up the save DC

- spiritual weapon: in my opinion one of the best 2nd level core spells. basically another attack, that can't easely be countered. you can send it to enemies behind cover, casters and so on. great against tough enemies- bypasses damage reduction and can hit incorporeal creatures without a problem. once it is set on an enemy, it is on it's tail and attacks on it's own. much better than the summon creature spells. only drawbacks- damage doesn't scale much, doesn't flank, and you need to use a move action to direct it to new enemies.

- augury: a personal favourite of mine, but you need to be crafty with your querries. another negative- unreliable. still, i like it.

- hold person: save or suck spell. great with owl's wisdom.

- silence: save or suck against casters. problem is that it's a will save, and most casters don't lack in that. use with owl's wisdom.

for scrolls: lesser restoration, remove paralasys, resist energy, consecrate, align weapon.

i'm level 4 in the campaign i'm playing at, so haven't gotten around to check out 3rd level spells yet, sorry.
Kol.

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-24, 02:39 PM
What, no mention of protection from evil as an excellent first level spell? +2 to defenses against Evil creatures, protection from Evil and Neutral summoned creatures, and the suppression of all forms of mental control? It's a Good thing.

Edit: Ninja!

Definitely the Travel and Luck domains, for a halfling. It's funny how Fharlaghn is a more appropriate deity for most halflings than their actual racial goddess.

lsfreak
2009-05-24, 02:59 PM
One other spell I might houserule in, purely for the sake of the party (and possibly the DM, if she doesn't yet know how to balance encounters to the party), is Revivify. 1000gp in diamonds and you can rez someone the round after they die without any level loss or anything. From miniatures handbook.

Everyman
2009-05-24, 09:07 PM
Definitely the Travel and Luck domains, for a halfling. It's funny how Fharlaghn is a more appropriate deity for most halflings than their actual racial goddess.

I agree. Part of the character's appeal to me is the idea of a simple, down-to-earth, plucky halfing wander. I'm glad to see so many people agree that Luck is the way to go. Fits the profile better.

I appreciate all your input on this. I'm still going to have to relearn how to best choose my spells each day, but having this list should at least help me quicken the process.

Claudius Maximus
2009-05-24, 09:49 PM
@ EarFall and monty:

Spontaneously casting as a cleric does take a full round action. I too overlooked this for years.

Unfortunately, I don't have much to add that's actually on topic...

monty
2009-05-24, 10:03 PM
@ EarFall and monty:

Spontaneously casting as a cleric does take a full round action. I too overlooked this for years.

Unfortunately, I don't have much to add that's actually on topic...

Are you sure? I don't see that anywhere.

Claudius Maximus
2009-05-24, 10:06 PM
Are you sure? I don't see that anywhere.

Yeah, it's on PHB 143. I think it's the only place in the whole book where it's mentioned, appearing neither in the Cleric class ability description nor in the magic chapter.

olentu
2009-05-24, 10:35 PM
Yeah, it's on PHB 143. I think it's the only place in the whole book where it's mentioned, appearing neither in the Cleric class ability description nor in the magic chapter.

Well I pulled this from the SRD rather then copying the text in the PHB but it looks to be the same text except that it is missing the example but is this what you mean

"Clerics must take more time to spontaneously cast a metamagic version of a cure or inflict spell. Spontaneously casting a metamagic version of a spell with a casting time of 1 standard action is a full-round action, and spells with longer casting times take an extra full-round action to cast."

In the event that this is what you are talking about then it appears to be only talking about spontaneously casting a spell modified by metamagic.

If this is not what you mean then apparently I am totally missing it since I can see no other reference to clerics on page 143.

Claudius Maximus
2009-05-24, 10:50 PM
Well I pulled this from the SRD rather then copying the text in the PHB but it looks to be the same text except that it is missing the example but is this what you mean

"Clerics must take more time to spontaneously cast a metamagic version of a cure or inflict spell. Spontaneously casting a metamagic version of a spell with a casting time of 1 standard action is a full-round action, and spells with longer casting times take an extra full-round action to cast."

In the event that this is what you are talking about then it appears to be only talking about spontaneously casting a spell modified by metamagic.

If this is not what you mean then apparently I am totally missing it since I can see no other reference to clerics on page 143.

Well, I only found 143 during a quick rush through the PHB in response to monty's asking me for verification. I admit now that I read that paragraph too hastily, and misconstrued what it said. It's certainly possible that both I and EarFall came to the same false conclusion, probably due to misreading that very paragraph. I haven't found another instance that backs up the claim that spontaneous casting is a full round action as of yet. I must thank you for catching that.

Chronos
2009-05-24, 11:20 PM
- silence: save or suck against casters. problem is that it's a will save, and most casters don't lack in that. use with owl's wisdom.So you don't cast it on the enemy caster. You cast it on an area that includes the caster, if you're in a confined space, or if you're not, you cast it on one of your party members (preferably one who doesn't cast spells), and have that party member grapple the spellcaster.

And you want scrolls of all of those spells that fix status conditions (Remove Blindness, Remove Curse, Break Enchantment, Raise Dead, etc.). You won't need to use them often, and you usually won't be able to predict in advance when you'll need them, but when you do need them, you need them right now.

Cedrass
2009-05-24, 11:21 PM
One other spell I might houserule in, purely for the sake of the party (and possibly the DM, if she doesn't yet know how to balance encounters to the party), is Revivify. 1000gp in diamonds and you can rez someone the round after they die without any level loss or anything. From miniatures handbook.

Also in Spell Compendium, and yes it saves people. A lot.