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AslanCross
2009-05-24, 04:57 PM
Not wanting to derail my campaign thread, I decided to start a new thread to ask for the Playground's help in helping a player build a new character.

If you've been following my Red Hand of Doom campaign journal, you'll know I only have 2 players with 4 PCs between them. One of the characters (the artificer) died recently and her player wanted to replace her with a cleric. As it turns out, I may be getting two more players, each of whom are going to handle a singe PC. The cleric might be going to one of these players instead.

She's not exactly a beginner, though she's the least experienced of my players. She joined my original campaign two years ago and wasn't able to stay long due to failing grades at the time. Despite her inexperience she's actually a pretty good roleplayer, so I want to indulge her rather strange character concept: a gun-toting cleric.

I'm running Eberron, and since the guns don't really fit a relatively technologically advanced setting (they'd have discovered them already) and I feel the guns in the DMG aren't worth their difficulty, I told her already that guns don't exist in the setting. So I said, "why not use a wand and make it look like a gun?"---to which she said "yay, sure!"

So how do I make a cleric an effective wand wielder? I'd suggest multiclassing artificer, but there's just way too much in the way of accounting for magic item creation and I don't want to push that on her. Furthermore, artificer doesn't really multiclass well.

Here are some ways that I've come up with:

1. Quick and dirty solution: Cleric with the Fire Domain, use a wand of produce flame. Not very strong, but doesn't require UMD. The spell itself is pretty efficient in terms of charge economy, but yeah, very little damage.

2. Slightly more difficult but potentially more rewarding: Cloistered cleric with Able Learner, take ranks in UMD. At least this way she can max her ranks in UMD and not really fear having the wand explode in her face, and she can also use wands that are not on the cleric list--most notably, scorching ray.

Any other ways of doing this?

What other projectile-type spells do you guys recommend? Rays and ranged touch attacks are preferred. I'm not so keen on the lesser orbs as they might not be as strong, while the 4th level orbs are too expensive to wand at her level.

She's going to start at 7th level and will meet the others at the start of chapter 2.

Eldariel
2009-05-24, 05:03 PM
There's the Wand Mastery-feat in Eberron Campaign Settings; a must-pick. Also, Dual Wand Wielder from CArc seems made for this. Cannith Wand Adept is a PrC worth considering although as it doesn't advance casting, it sucks :S Craft Wand is a must either way, just to keep up with the consumption. Other than that, I recall Metamagic Spell Trigger was printed as a feat in Complete Mage; coupled with metamagic feats (you'd probably need a class granting bonus metamagic to get a relevant amount) this could be pretty efficient.

As for attack spells, high CL (CL 7) Lesser Orb-wands are a great starting point (you're perfectly within your rights to craft Wands at other than the lowest CL; it's just usually not economic, but offensive damage Wands are the specific exception to this rule). Scorching Ray is next and eventually Enervation and Orb of Force.


EDIT: Metamagic Spell Trigger requires UMD/Spellcraft 15 ranks :( So not available for a while; Artificer would really do this better, as would Incantatrix, but I don't know of any divine PrCs that grant the ability.

Wand Mastery requires CL 9 too so it's few levels away as well. That just leaves Dual Wand Wielder and maybe Reckless Wand Wielder from CArc.

RTGoodman
2009-05-24, 05:16 PM
How 'bout this - instead of Wands, the character just takes the Fiery Burst reserve feat from Complete Mage. As long as she has a Fire spell of a certain level (which the Fire domain will give), she can throw around small bursts of fire at-will. Just re-fluff it as a gun and you're set.

Keld Denar
2009-05-24, 05:26 PM
Nobody has mentioned the Magic domain yet? Blasphemy! Magic's domain ability is that you can use stuff like a wizard.



Magic Domain
Granted Power
Use scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation as a wizard of one-half your cleric level (at least 1st level). For the purpose of using a scroll or other magic device, if you are also a wizard, actual wizard levels and these effective wizard levels stack.


Well, right from 1st level on, you count as a wizard for using spell trigger items, like wands. Since you only need to have a spell on your list to use a spell trigger item, a cleric that counts as a level 1 wizard CAN use any wand that a wizard can, with no chance of failure.

/solved

AslanCross
2009-05-24, 05:49 PM
Nobody has mentioned the Magic domain yet? Blasphemy! Magic's domain ability is that you can use stuff like a wizard.



Well, right from 1st level on, you count as a wizard for using spell trigger items, like wands. Since you only need to have a spell on your list to use a spell trigger item, a cleric that counts as a level 1 wizard CAN use any wand that a wizard can, with no chance of failure.

/solved

Okay, I totally forgot about this, which is weird since I was helping the artificer's player look for domains to use should she take control of the cleric instead.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

EarFall
2009-05-24, 08:26 PM
Nobody has mentioned the Magic domain yet? Blasphemy! Magic's domain ability is that you can use stuff like a wizard.



Well, right from 1st level on, you count as a wizard for using spell trigger items, like wands. Since you only need to have a spell on your list to use a spell trigger item, a cleric that counts as a level 1 wizard CAN use any wand that a wizard can, with no chance of failure.

/solved

/thread

Also, interesting way of solving the gun issue... thank god you didn't just insert guns into your campaign.

Curmudgeon
2009-05-24, 08:30 PM
Note that Quick Draw can be used on wands.
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. You'll want that feat for your wand-slinger.

Kol Korran
2009-05-25, 11:04 AM
i don't have much to add, since most good advice has been taken. i heartly recommend the fiery burst feat (though i don't have the book so i can't say what it's prequesits are). it could basically solve your problems, though only to 30 ft range, which is... not quite "gun" like. i do also suggest some eternal wands for spells of level 3 or 4 (i know the rules say you can't have 4th level eternal wands... who cares?)

another idea, though with a bit of a darker intent, but that your player might like... how about a symbiont, that is attached to her arm and looks a bit like a gun, and shoot rays? it could get more powerfull as she gains levels, or she could "power it up" by giving it blood (hp or constitution loss), or perhaps channel her spells to amplify her rays. she could play an unfortunate soul who got infested by this abomination, (perhaps in her search of magic, if she's a cleric with the magic domain), and now the creature is attached it cannot be seperated. this event inspired her to beleive more strongly in the gods, and rely on their influence to subvert the dark power of the symbiont from corrupting her mind. she now seeks to do good and gain mental fortitude so one day she might find a way to rid herself of this thing (or alternetavely gain full control of it). in the meantime, she can make it do her bidding (perhaps you can rule that is just... most of the time)

just an idea that might be fun.

another suggestion, though not by the rules- have her play a cleric or favoured soul, who has an extra power to change her spells to "ray energy" (sor of like sponteneous casting). each spell level could be turned to 3 shots that cause some damage/ level. this could fit several gods very nicely:
- blood of vol: a believer that found a way to shoot negative energy. might be interesting to put a blood of vol priest with silver falame followers, no?
- onatar: the god always encourages inginuity. this believer found a way to shoot fire rays onto it's enemies.
- traveler: similar to onatar, only i imagine it won't be fire rays, but... something more devious.

as you see, i like customization. oh well, hope this helped.