Would soul splices increase combat or physical ability?

[ABB]

M'kay, looks like roy is finally going to get raised.

Now, as far as I know in D&D, getting raised has a physical penalty. Roy wasn't that tough to begin with, so now it's worse for him.

If V survives and tells them about the splice, could they try splicing roy with a great deceased warrior to boost his fighting ability or skill, or even his physical stats?

Wouldn't it be a laugh if the dead warrior they spliced roy to was a certain fallen paladin looking for a chance to redeem herself? :miko:

[Brogen]

No, because the lower planes each only get one soul splice every 100 years, and all three used their soul splices on V.

Edit: Spelling.

[shadzar]

Unless Thor is allowed back into the Southern Continent, Roy isn't getting spliced with anything other than a air-freshener of pineness anytime soon.

Roy already knows about the splices also as he saw them, so V wouldn't have to tell anybody about anything.

[holywhippet]

Roy already knows about the splices also as he saw them, so V wouldn't have to tell anybody about anything.

No. Roy saw the splices but the sorcerer spliced with V managed to bluff him into believing that they were part of an outsourcing program.


Now, as far as I know in D&D, getting raised has a physical penalty. Roy wasn't that tough to begin with, so now it's worse for him.

I think you are getting confused with earlier editions. In 2nd edition you lost a point of constitution every time you were raised from the dead. In 3rd edition you lose a level of experience or a point of constitution if you are level 1. Roy will have slightly reduced HP due to the level loss but being a high level fighter he'll still have a lot of HP.

[Dagren]

No. Roy saw the splices but the sorcerer spliced with V managed to bluff him into believing that they were part of an outsourcing program.What bluff? The fact that he failed to mention the cost of payment, or his deceptive description of the frequency?

[shadzar]

No. Roy saw the splices but the sorcerer spliced with V managed to bluff him into believing that they were part of an outsourcing program.

They were outsourced.

[holywhippet]

He managed to bluff Roy into thinking that they were innocent, practically routine, outsourcers for magic working with V. Roy was not left with the impression that they were a) evil b) the result of evil magic or c) going to result in V's soul being indebted to 3 evil extra-planar creatures.

[shadzar]

But it wasn't a bluff. Just left out a few details is all.

They were truthful that V was outsourcing.

Did Roy question how, or just leave it up to some arcane stuff that he doesn't know about and didn't ask Eugene about when he was with him?

[holywhippet]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0646.html

Read panel 5 - he clearly indicates that he was bluffing as it's a sorcerer class skill. He probably didn't know about Roy's poor sense motive ranks.

[Dagren]

He managed to bluff Roy into thinking that they were innocent, practically routine, outsourcers for magic working with V. Roy was not left with the impression that they were a) evil b) the result of evil magic or c) going to result in V's soul being indebted to 3 evil extra-planar creatures.Exactly. He didn't mention what the payment would be, and he said that Roy would be surprised how common this is. That's factually correct, Roy would be surprised that V got her hands on a one-ever deal. (Personally, I love that kind of bluff, the factually correct presented in a misleading manner)
But it wasn't a bluff. Just left out a few details is all.

They were truthful that V was outsourcing.It wasn't a lie. It was most certainly a bluff, a particularly good one IMO.

[shadzar]

HE could call it a bluff if he wanted, but it seems Roy had no reason to roll sense motive as he was buying it hook line and sinker from not knowing jack squat about caster, nor ever wanting to thanks to Eugene. :smallwink:

So Jephton can claim bluffing all he wants, but I don't think a check was even needed.

[Dagren]

HE could call it a bluff if he wanted, but it seems Roy had no reason to roll sense motive as he was buying it hook line and sinker from not knowing jack squat about caster, nor ever wanting to thanks to Eugene. :smallwink:

So Jephton can claim bluffing all he wants, but I don't think a check was even needed.Superfluous maybe, since even with Roy's impressive Wis he's not going to make an untrained sense motive against an Epic Sorcerer, but Jephton was being somewhat deceptive, and thus sense motive should come into play. However, as you point out, Roy knows very little about high arcana, so would likely have a significant penalty on top of his lack of ranks, lack of prime requisite in the relevant ability, etc. So basically yeah, he was going to fall for it.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

M'kay, looks like roy is finally going to get raised.

Now, as far as I know in D&D, getting raised has a physical penalty. Roy wasn't that tough to begin with, so now it's worse for him.

If V survives and tells them about the splice, could they try splicing roy with a great deceased warrior to boost his fighting ability or skill, or even his physical stats?

Wouldn't it be a laugh if the dead warrior they spliced roy to was a certain fallen paladin looking for a chance to redeem herself? :miko:

Well there would be a few problems I could see:

- We don't know if any other power would offer something like a splice. The lower planes have exhausted their splices for this 100 years.

Plus, it seems like an evil act, so it probably would gell with LG Roy, unless some good power had a good soul splice option.

- Splices aren't permanant. It lasts as long as Roy can maintain it through sheer will.

[Meridian]

Unless Thor is allowed back into the Southern Continent, Roy isn't getting spliced with anything other than a air-freshener of pineness anytime soon.


Didn't V teleport them to the Western Continent?

Also, I highly doubt a Soul Splice could enhance one's physical strenght, because, as we've seen, the Spliced souls are ghost that hang about their contract and give him knowledge of the spells they know. I don't really see how a soul, or souls, helping you could boost your muscle. With some other kind of magic, sure, but not with a Splice.

[Omegonthesane]

No, because the lower planes each only get one soul splice every 100 years, and all three used their soul splices on V.

Edit: Spelling.

I don't think they were being serious with the once-in-a-century talk - that's fairly standard marketing speak to give an impression of scarcity, so the person is more likely to buy in case they never get another chance. Admittedly it's rare that they would make this kind of effort to get a soul, but they knew V would only side with fiends in return for his family's salvation - that, and/or they need him near the gates.

In short, you're reading far too much into "It's a special once-in-a-century deal".

[Dagren]

Plus, it seems like an evil act, so it probably would gell with LG Roy, unless some good power had a good soul splice option.Wait, who said it was an evil act?

[Omegonthesane]

Wait, who said it was an evil act?

The fact it's offered by fiends is the only evidence for this assertion, and it's really a stretch. That said, there is no real precedent for a similar deal made with a benevolent power from what mythology I know.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Wait, who said it was an evil act?

I was going "guilty by association", since we have soul splices being trotted out by the IFCC, a committee made up of fiends representating the... well, evil planes.

Plus, the whole "we'll stick this soul on you and you'll benifit from it as long as you can maintain the link" doesn't really sound like the kind of thing your average LG diety would be offering.

Neutral maybe.

[Dagren]

I was going "guilty by association", since we have soul splices being trotted out by the IFCC, a committee made up of representatives of the... well, evil planes.Oh, OK. You mean like teleporting and scrying are evil acts then?

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Oh, OK. You mean like teleporting and scrying are evil acts then?

How do you get that? As far as I know teleporting and scrying is something magic users etc can achieve regardless of alignment. It is not exclusivly the domain of fiends.

So far soul splices have turned up once. There is an implication they have occured before. And throughout they are linked to fiends and fiends alone, and in the case we saw was used as a componant in an Faustian bargain.

[Cracklord]

The fact it's offered by fiends is the only evidence for this assertion, and it's really a stretch. That said, there is no real precedent for a similar deal made with a benevolent power from what mythology I know.

In the Book of Vile Darkness it said that one of the evil overlords was killed by a women imbued with the power of all those he'd killed. Bit of stretch, but sounds appropriate...

[Dagren]

How do you get that? As far as I know teleporting and scrying is something magic users etc can achieve regardless of alignment. It is not exclusivly the domain of fiends.I get that because the fiends have done both those things too. Obviously you didn't grasp that though, or you wouldn't have asked.


So far soul splices have turned up once. There is an implication they have occured before. And throughout they are linked to fiends and fiends alone, and in the case we saw was used as a componant in an Faustian bargain.That's it? So if they had offered V a cup of tea instead then drinking tea would be evil? Need I even point out that TV is obviously evil too, since IIRC the only ones to have one are the fiends and Xykon? Seriously, can you honestly not tell what a non-argument it is?

[Dr. Cthulwho]

I get that because the fiends have done both those things too. Obviously you didn't grasp that though, or you wouldn't have asked.

No, I get that, but why pick those things, when they are clearly not something exclusive to fiends?

As in we have had an Azure Wizard teleport, others scry etc.


That's it? So if they had offered V a cup of tea instead then drinking tea would be evil? Need I even point out that TV is obviously evil too, since IIRC the only ones to have one are the fiends and Xykon? Seriously, can you honestly not tell what a non-argument it is?

Yes, and it is what you seem to be doing. Your argument is "Sure, the IFCC is evil, but they can do things which aren't inherently evil (like teleporting or scrying), so there is no reason to assume that the soul splicing is an evil act, or any more evil then scrying or teleporting."

But we have soul splices being offered by fiends. They talk in terms of splices being something fiends can offer once every 100 years. In fact the language surrounding it makes it sound pretty fiend-centric -

"Each of us has the power, as duly appointed representatives of our respective planar dominions, to initiate a procedure known as a soul splice"

Plus when Yellow Eyes explains to V what the a soul splice is, he makes it clear it involves taking a damned soul from the lower planes and grafting it to a mortal.

It sounds special and quite specific. They also offer the splice as part of a Faustian bargain. Xykon and Redcloak both recognize soul splices. Plus the very nature of using a soul to provide a quick, short term power boost is something that, traditionally, doesn't sound like a good act.

So in my eyes "it seems like an evil act..." remains so unless you have an actual argument that supports soul splicing possibly being neutral (not necessarily good or evil) beyond "But, fiends can do stuff that isn't inherently evil as well" I'd say you are making the non-argument.

And there is no TV, there are jokes in which scrying is used in TV like gags.

[Dagren]

Look, I've pointed out that claiming the splice is evil because someone evil does it is a logical fallacy similar to Elan's "Adventure". If you won't accept that, I'm not going to press the point.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Look, I've pointed out that claiming the splice is evil because someone evil does it is a logical fallacy similar to Elan's "Adventure". If you won't accept that, I'm not going to press the point.

I didn't say the splice is evil because the IFCC is evil, I did say guilty by association, which I expanded on above.

The only beings soul splices have appeared in connection with, how those beings talked of them and used them, and the only other beings to recognize them - therefore while it hasn't been out and out stated "soul splicing is an evil act" the context in which it is used, and those associated with them make soul splices seem like an evil act.