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Bulwer
2009-05-26, 12:40 AM
I'm statting up a Dervish for a PbP game, and I've got a couple issues to work through. I'm relying on the Wizards forums Dervish Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=629013), which is excellent.

I'm going for the standard Swashbuckler3/Fighter2/Dervish10 build with a Mongrelfolk, which is a little suboptimal, but I can live with it.

A few questions:

Is there an Exotic slashing weapon, either light or finesseable, that is better than the scimitar? Due to the pace of PbP games, I'm likely going to be at level 5, and thus unable to finesse scimitars, for a while, and I'd like a way around that.

Related to that, I've got a free feat slot that I've got nothing to do with. With 2 flaws and all my prereqs out of the way, what could I fill the slot with? Improved Initiative seems a little wimpy, and I can't take anything necessary (Imp.TWF or Imp.Critical) yet. Thoughts?

Is there any advice I ought to know if I'm playing a Dervish? Anything that's come out since '07 that's nifty?

KillianHawkeye
2009-05-26, 01:34 AM
The first thing that comes to mind is the Elven Courtblade from Races of the Wild. It's got better damage, the same crit range, and you can choose to deal either piercing or slashing damage with it. It's two-handed, not light (if that's a problem for you), but it's still finesseable if you have proficiency (because it's made by elves I guess).

I just reread the Dervish's class abilities, and it looks like there's no requirement of using a light weapon, so it will work for a dervish and also gets you extra Strength damage for being a two-handed weapon.

Iku Rex
2009-05-26, 01:38 AM
A spinning sword (Secrets of Sarlona) is a one-handed, finesseable slashing weapon with reach. If you're going for TWF you may want to use kusari-gamas (DMG) instead, as they're light.

Bulwer
2009-05-26, 02:28 AM
Courtblade's no good, as I'm TWFing. Kusari-gama is a little ridiculous, but I'm looking at the Dragonsplit from MM4. 1d6/x4 Slashing or 1d6/19-20x2 Piercing, and it counts as a light weapon for TWF and Finesse. Might be tough to get past a DM, though, as it lacks a price.

Meh. I can live with being 1 point of attack bonus down for a level and digging up more scimitars when I need them. Anyone have any feat suggestions?

Eldariel
2009-05-26, 06:26 AM
Just use Mw. Short Swords until you get the Dervish-level. Weapon Finesse applies to all weapons by the latest printing so just use a standard Light Weapon for now and switch to Scimitars on 6.

Bulwer
2009-05-26, 06:36 AM
I was actually planning on using a +1 Scimitar and a Mwk. Kukri for now, then picking up another scimitar in a level.

Eldariel
2009-05-26, 06:47 AM
I was actually planning on using a +1 Scimitar and a Mwk. Kukri for now, then picking up another scimitar in a level.

That should work just as well.

Gaiyamato
2009-05-26, 07:00 AM
Take lunatic insight for the fun value?
lol.
+2 init and all knowledge skills can be used untrained.

Or you could add some pact magic for extra fun:
Bind Vestige.

Take Aym for a flaming insane whirling dervish of doom.
Or Rovoe, so your melee attacks are magical cold iron for overimg DR and improved movement, you can move stuff telepathicaly and even push opponents over.

You could take the Improved Bind Vstige and select up to 5th level vestiges. I think there is actually one made for dervishes in there somewhere.

Balam gives you weapon finese, dice re-rolls and an ac bonus as well as an ok gaze attack.

Chupoclops gives you aura of despair that gives everyone around you the same penalties as being shaken, constant deathwatch spell, the catfolk pounce attack, ghost touch so you smash incorporeal being and the ability to use ethereal jaunt.

Paimon is probably the best one however. He lets you make attacks against anyone you move past as a full round action, gives you weapon proficiency with a rapier, shortsword etc, gives you weapon finese, +4 Dexterity, +4 tumble and dance skill checks, uncanny dodge and whirlwind attack. <-- This guy rocks!!!

:)

Just remember though that your Effective Binder Level will only be 1. So to bind you need to make a roll of 1D20+1+CHA Bonus. lol.
Also with those feats you only gain 1 power. You would need Practised Binder to get a second power. :P

Or seen as you have a free feat slot anyway, swap out 1 level of fighter for 1 level of Binder base class. :)

Bulwer
2009-05-26, 07:11 AM
I'm sorry to say that ToM is disallowed, as is ToB (or I'd pick up a Stance).

What's a full BaB class with something cool at the first level? Barbarian, maybe: this is really the only time the Fast Movement is better than Pounce. :smalltongue:

Gaiyamato
2009-05-26, 07:36 AM
That sucks, then yeah stick with what you have.. maybe just add weapon focus?
Improved Initiative is nothing to sneeze at either.

Barbarian works, but some of your dex and int based stuff won't work while in a rage, unless the DM lets you take Berserker Strength class option. Then unless you get below 5hp your cool. lol.

Eldariel
2009-05-26, 07:45 AM
I'd keep the feat. Deadly Defense [CScoundrel] is a solid option, for example; 1d6 extra damage whenever you use Combat Expertise for at least 2. Flay Foe [CRuin] isn't bad either (1d6 extra damage for every slashing hit beyond the first one you make in a round).

Also, you can take two more levels of Fighter later on to grab Weapon Specialization > Melee Weapon Mastery. And Elusive Target is always good since you already have the prereqs. And of course, there's Improved Trip (provided you have a decent amount of Str, it can be a nice addition).

Bulwer
2009-05-26, 08:13 AM
Elusive Target's got a BaB req I can't hit. I've already got Weapon Focus, as it's a prereq for Dervish.

Flay Foe is a distinct possibility. EDIT: Nope. BaB +6.

Darrin
2009-05-26, 10:37 PM
You can still TWF with an Elven Courtblade, just add armor spikes or an unarmed strike. A Kaorti Elven Courtblade has great stats: 1d10 damage, 18-20 x4 crit.


Elusive Target's got a BaB req I can't hit. I've already got Weapon Focus, as it's a prereq for Dervish.

Flay Foe is a distinct possibility. EDIT: Nope. BaB +6.

Take Expeditious Dodge (RotW) instead of plain ol' vanilla Dodge. Works very well with Travel Devotion (CompChamp), which basically gives you Pounce for 10 rounds 1/day.

Elusive Dance (Dragon #333) is also a great feat for Dervishes:

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Elusive_Dance,all

Bulwer
2009-05-27, 01:49 AM
I'm not sure it's worth the absurdity or the attack penalties for TWFing courtblades, and I know for certain kaorti resin isn't going to fly.

On the other hand, Travel Devotion may be just what I'm looking for. I'm unsure of my reading of the rules: can you move as a move action AND move as a swift action EACH round for the duration?

I already got Expeditious Dodge approved. :smallsmile: It's going to be on all the time, ideally, as I also took the Quick trait for 10 more feet of speed.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-27, 01:51 AM
On the other hand, Travel Devotion may be just what I'm looking for. I'm unsure of my reading of the rules: can you move as a move action AND move as a swift action EACH round for the duration?Yes, it does.

Bulwer
2009-05-27, 02:31 AM
I do believe I just got a little more pious.

Darrin
2009-05-27, 08:40 AM
I'm not sure it's worth the absurdity or the attack penalties for TWFing courtblades, and I know for certain kaorti resin isn't going to fly.


Armor spikes are considered a light weapon, so you could two-hand power-attack with an Elven Courtblade and still TWF with armor spikes at only a -2 penalty.

Oh, and see if your DM will allow heavy weapons (Magic of Faerun p. 179). If you pick up some Strongarm Bracers (MIC p. 139, 6000 GP) and two large-sized heavy scimitars, you can TWF two light weapons with 2d6 base damage.

Dealing with Fatigue:

Sphere of Awakening (MIC p. 186, 1800 GP) removes fatigue 1/day. Potions of Lesser Restoration are also fairly cheap, although you can get Potions of Second Wind (SC p. 182) even cheaper if you can find a paladin with the Brew Potion feat.

Dealing with AoOs:

If Elusive Dance isn't available, your enemies can't AoO if they can't see you. Pick up any invisibility and blinding items you can find. Boots of Tracklessness are good for 7 rounds of greater invisibility 1/day (MIC p. 79, 11000 GP). Make both scimitars Everbright (MIC p. 34, +2000 GP each) for a 20' radius blinding attack 4/day. Blinding Buckler (DMG, 4000 GP), Orb of Blinding (MIC p. 167, 5000 GP), Powder of the Black Veil (MIC p. 169, 750 GP), Helm of Wounding Sight (MIC p. 193, 6500 GP), Flashstone (Dragon Compendium p 117), and Flash Pellet (CompArc p. 118) also can blind (particularly that Helm of Wounding Sight sounds very nifty). Add a potion of Hunter's Eye (PHBII) for extra sneak attack gravy.

kentma57
2009-05-27, 10:30 AM
Just play a Drow, they make the best Dervishes. Provided you take the right feat.

KillianHawkeye
2009-05-27, 08:01 PM
Which feat would that be? :smallannoyed:

Faleldir
2009-05-27, 08:03 PM
Armor spikes are considered a light weapon, so you could two-hand power-attack with an Elven Courtblade and still TWF with armor spikes at only a -2 penalty.

Dervish Dance only works with slashing weapons. You need razored armor.

herrhauptmann
2009-05-27, 08:26 PM
There's an exotic chain weapon which you can use to dualwield with 2 1d4 weapons, or fight 2handed 2d4 and reach. Can't remember the name...

Also, how about Feats two-weapon pounce and 2 weapon rend? Both are phb2, but I don't remember the prereqs of the top of my head.

Faleldir
2009-05-27, 08:40 PM
About your empty feat slot: Can you afford a scimitar of every known material and alignment? If not, you might want to take Sense Weakness. You have all the prerequisites for it.

dspeyer
2009-05-27, 08:40 PM
If you've got a feat to spare, consider swapping out those fighter levels for ranger. TWF as fighting style replaces one fighter feat, and the other is spare. You gain lots of skills, tracking and the ability to use many useful wands (e.g. clw). You lose a couple of hit points. Put the ranger levels first for the maximum skill benefit.

Chronos
2009-05-27, 08:58 PM
Quoth Gaiyamato:
Or you could add some pact magic for extra fun:
Bind Vestige.

Take Aym for a flaming insane whirling dervish of doom.
Or Rovoe, so your melee attacks are magical cold iron for overimg DR and improved movement, you can move stuff telepathicaly and even push opponents over.

You could take the Improved Bind Vstige and select up to 5th level vestiges. I think there is actually one made for dervishes in there somewhere.

Balam gives you weapon finese, dice re-rolls and an ac bonus as well as an ok gaze attack.

Chupoclops gives you aura of despair that gives everyone around you the same penalties as being shaken, constant deathwatch spell, the catfolk pounce attack, ghost touch so you smash incorporeal being and the ability to use ethereal jaunt.

Paimon is probably the best one however. He lets you make attacks against anyone you move past as a full round action, gives you weapon proficiency with a rapier, shortsword etc, gives you weapon finese, +4 Dexterity, +4 tumble and dance skill checks, uncanny dodge and whirlwind attack. <-- This guy rocks!!!You do know, don't you, that the Bind Vestige feat only gives you access to one ability from each vestige, right? And usually, not even one of the better ones?

Gaiyamato
2009-05-27, 11:57 PM
Quoth Gaiyamato:You do know, don't you, that the Bind Vestige feat only gives you access to one ability from each vestige, right? And usually, not even one of the better ones?

You did notice that I mentioned that in most post right?
lol.

The only drawback of going that way. Taking one level in the Binder class solves those issues though.
Like I said at the end of my post, he could swap out one level of fighter given he has nothing else to use the feat for, and take one level of binder.

Chronos
2009-05-28, 12:12 AM
One level of binder doesn't get you most of the things you mentioned, though.

Gaiyamato
2009-05-28, 12:58 AM
One level of binder doesn't get you most of the things you mentioned, though.

No only those first level guys.

But it is a cool way to add something different to a dervish character. Just the being on fire would be enough to be interesting. lol.