OOTS #656 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[afroakuma]

Oh, doors. You are indeed the bane of invisible people. :smallwink:

Shame about that phylactery. Will he leave O-Chul alive?

[TVTMaster]

First!
Bah.

Kizin or whatever. What was his name? I guess he wasn't much more than an orange Redcloak with no backstory, though. Dang, O-chul's awesome. Shame he couldn't break the phylactery, though.

[Elanorea]

Oh wow. I wonder if O-chul's gonna die?

[Georlik]

Hey! I can't believe in what i saw- Lich is still alive (not speaking literally of course). That's.... that is just SO unfair!

[Olibarro]

I see a chance for V to start redeeming herself. Here's hoping she makes the right decision.

I didn't see any X's in O-Chul's eyes, so he still has some fight left in him.

I love OotS.

[Starscream]

Awesome strip. Love the fiend admitting that even he was rooting for O-Chul for a sec. And apparently Qarr is in the "V is female camp".

[Nu]

First!
Bah.

Kizin or whatever. What was his name? I guess he wasn't much more than an orange Redcloak with no backstory, though. Dang, O-chul's awesome. Shame he couldn't break the phylactery, though.

Eh, Redcloak is a high level cleric. If he wants to bring his lackey back from the dead, he can.

But damn, O-Chul's a lot more deadly with that improvised weapon than I'd expect.

[Mauve Shirt]

Oh no! Don't die, O-Chul! :smalleek:
Well, at least V's getting away.

[aapje]

O-Chul looks still alive :)

[Fargo1168]

Epic! The bane of all invisible characters, eh?

[mescaLEO]

Ouch, that hurts!!!
Invisible and a door closed: typical! :amused:

[Edhelras]

I'm a bit worried what happened to O-Chul? If Xykon has time to deal with V, would that mean that O-Chul is just a bit of charcoal by now?

[Starknight]

Go O-chul!

[Moriarty]

sooo Ochul survived a Disintegrate (saved), a meteor swarm and a maximised lightning bolt and is still above -10hp.

[Snake-Aes]

Poor Jirix.

And O-Chul ate that meteor O.o

[The Grazymancer]

Yeah this confirms that the fiends don't give a crap about V's soul or the splice.

[Wikimaster]

First!
Bah.

Kizin or whatever. What was his name? I guess he wasn't much more than an orange Redcloak with no backstory, though. Dang, O-chul's awesome. Shame he couldn't break the phylactery, though.

It's Jirix.

[Welf]

I bow before the giant. He is still the king of (web-)comedy, and the duke of drama. :smallbiggrin:

[kalkyrie]

Curious what the abjurations on the phylectary are. Can't think of any possibilities at the moment, but there are probably some.

If we are going down the 'V's redemption' route, then a Disintegrate on the phylectary might work. Even V can hit a stationary target. Unless Xykon has a spell to counter that.

[banjo1985]

Hehe, not so fast V, you're not out of the woods yet. Also looks as if Xykon's got O-Chul under control...until MitD starts getting into things I guess.

[TheBST]

Turning invisible and running away again, V?

Well, at least the fiends are rooting for Xykon's destruction as well. D&D makes for strange bedfellows.


Since Xykon's now looking for V, we can assume O-Chul is at least unconscious. Guess that just leaves the MitD between his new best buddy and Xykon.

But the Monster's bound to have a crappy Will Save....

Either way, someone relevant is gonna die

[bluedolphin359]

Wow, V just can't get a break, can she?

I loved the fiend rooting for O-Chul, as well as the confirmation that the fiends want V to live. This seems proof that they will seize control while V is alive.

I hope that O-Chul lives. At the very least, he should toss it to the MitD and have him try to stomp on it. :smallbiggrin:

[dogmac]

Oh man, even O-Chul can't break the phylactery. That is ONE tough necklace.

Please don't let O-Chul be dead!

And yes, damn you closed doors.

[Allan Surgite]

(Hob)Goblins? They seem more like flies at the rate they're dropping.

O-Chul doesn't look dead yet. Maybe he'll get a few more cracks at the phylactery before he bites the dust?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Still, opening the door MIGHT work to V's advantage...

Open the door, then FLY in the other direction. Pick up O-Chul and take him out through the big hole Xykon knocked through the wall.

No idea how V will get back to the OotS.

[lukastrika]

ouch! now redcloak might open the door from the other side :)

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Nooooooo! Jirix! Alas, I thought you might be the one to lead the Hobgoblins out of Azure City and to peace someone else.

And wow. So O-Chul has taken a disintegrate and a Meteor Swarm, and seemingly a maximized Lightening bolt (he doesn't have Xs, so he hasn't died for sure.)

Plus Xykon (and the Giant) reveals again that he is cunning like a fox. Protecting his phylactery from situations like this (or anything) with magic, did anyone imagine that this is what would thwart O-Chul?

And again V runs in Azure City while invisible - that can't be good for the old brain. Unless she suddenly has a heroic moment... love the closed door gag. It is so true.

Nice to see the IFCC again as well, while getting a greater idea of how they are operating, plus putting paid to the idea (which I admit I thought may be possible) that they might grab V out of there.

[HOLEkevin]

The closed door. It's the simple things that really make you smile.

BTW, maybe I've just been getting lucky, but are the forums in here working better? That would be fantastic if true. I love posting here and it was a source of minor frustration when everything would go down. Bravo for getting things working properly!

(Unless it's just a coincidence of timing, in which case forget everything I said about it.)

[Kalbron]

Not only will the door squeak, but there'll likely be a hobgoblin patrol behind it too that V won't be able to squeeze past. Oh and because Redcloak is paranoid the patrol will have a caster in it with an active See Invisibility effect.

Wonder what sort of lucky break/Deus Ex Machina/Diabolus Ex Machina will need to occur for V to live, because clearly V's constantly rolling 1s at this point.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

(Hob)Goblins? They seem more like flies at the rate they're dropping.

O-Chul doesn't look dead yet. Maybe he'll get a few more cracks at the phylactery before he bites the dust?

I'm guessing if it isn't broken now it wont be breaking at all. I wonder if there will be some theories about what kind of protections have been put on it.


Oh man, even O-Chul can't break the phylactery. That is ONE tough necklace.

Tougher through magical protection.


At the very least, he should toss it to the MitD and have him try to stomp on it.

Nah, he doesn't want to bring the MitD into it before it is ready to choose for itself.

[PrGo]

"I can't believe I was rooting for a paladin for a moment there. I feel dirty." Exactly my thoughts :smalltongue:

Love the last panel :smallbiggrin:

[bluewind95]

Nooooo! Don't kill O-Chul!!!

[bluedolphin359]

Nah, he doesn't want to bring the MitD into it before it is ready to choose for itself.

Crud, you're probably right. I guess I need a new theory, then. :smallwink:

[Equester]

nice to see that V's magic once again fails and he has to flee invisible while leaving an Azurite to the fate of V's enemy...

[shadzar]

Alas poor Jirix. I knew him well Horatio....

So the plot thickens! Die V Die! Forsake the mortal coil and preserve your immortal soul from the fiends!

A lot can happen in 10 minutes. :smalleek:

[Kranden]

Oh man V is in serious trouble!

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Yeah this confirms that the fiends don't give a crap about V's soul or the splice.

I'd think it would be the opposite. Orange Eyes is saying if he dies the whole thing will have been a waste.

So for it not to be a waste V must live so she can be of use later.

[Aharon]

Liked it! A lot. Xykon continues to be more awesome than I expected by having decent protections on his phylactery.

Don't understand why the closed door is a problem, though. Unless it is locked, V can open it without losing her invisibilty, can't she?

[Klose_the_Sith]

o.O

The recent O-Chul comics are among my favourite OOTS strips out of any. Before this it would probably be just after Dungeon of Dorukan, but closing fast.

[Half-Orc Rage]

Damn, O-Chul and V are both in over their heads. I wonder if something will save them or if we'll see V die and never complete the Order of the Stick again.

[Zombie Nixon]

Don't understand why the closed door is a problem, though. Unless it is locked, V can open it without losing her invisibilty, can't she?

Then Xykon sees the door opening and fires off a meteor swarm

[JeptCloak]

Damn, O-Chul and V are both in over their heads. I wonder if something will save them or if we'll see V die and never complete the Order of the Stick again.

V was not in over his head, he was considerably above Xykon when he picked his fight... he was railroaded by plot.

[Thufir]

Alas poor Jirix. I knew him well Horatio...

Fixed.

Also, O-Chul is amazingly tough. But it looks like he's going down here, unless V or the CitD intervenes. Likewise the phylactery will probably remain intact barring such intervention.

[afroakuma]

But damn, O-Chul's a lot more deadly with that improvised weapon than I'd expect.

Knowing O-Chul, he probably has Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Anything I Can Hit People With)

[silversaraph]

I think it's so awesome, that while nobody has really survived without serious damage when at full health being hit by a disintegrate, and the same thing for a meteor swarm, O-chul has been hit with both. In addition, while most were at full health, (and supposed to be a higher level, which I doubt) he is probably also at a low health because of all the torture. (Nobody wants to burn a heal spell!) Not only that, but he sustained a lighting bolt, and has no equipment whatsoever unlike all of the others.

I know that there have been a lot of discussion threads about this, but to me, it's crazy to think that this is con alone.:smallbiggrin:

[hanglekuk]

That's the same door girl (Tsukiko) went for a nap. Might come back for ruckus again.

Still, next strip should involve MITD.

[Gawaeyn]

Of course, V's mage hand has to have a range of at least 50 or so feet... :smallamused:

Can Silent Image be used to make the door appear closed? I'm not too familiar...

[Cicciograna]

Is O-Chul beard fireproof? :smallsmile:

Anyway, in last panel we see that Xykon has turned again his attention towards V. This could mean that he has finished with the paladin... O-CHUL, DONT' DIE!!!

[Krenn]

if V can't open the door, and the fiends really do want V alive, can't they send the imp to open it for v?

of course, getting the imp to explain to xykon WHY he's there, opening the door at that time may be tricky...

[Duaneyo1]

Wonder what spells protect his phylactery? Between him and red cloak there are a lot to choose from. If we go back to second edition it takes specific spells to even make one: enchant item, magic jar, permanency and reincarnation.

[eras10]

Good stuff.

Action shifts to MITD next strip, count on it. Without that intervention, the phylactery lives for sure and V getting out is improbable (she could remember about the hole in the wall and Feather Fall next strip, okay, but I think Xykon has a some decloaking spells left, hmmm - she needs another couple of distraction rounds).

Also.. I think O-Chul's HP is only going down from here.

I don't think the phylactery thing is a bluff.

[The Grazymancer]

if V can't open the door, and the fiends really do want V alive, can't they send the imp to open it for v?

of course, getting the imp to explain to xykon WHY he's there, opening the door at that time may be tricky...

V can open the door and stay invisible. The problem is that it isn't too hard to figure out where he is if you can see a door being opened.

[Allan Surgite]

I think it's so awesome, that while nobody has really survived without serious damage when at full health being hit by a disintegrate, and the same thing for a meteor swarm, O-chul has been hit with both. In addition, while most were at full health, (and supposed to be a higher level, which I doubt) he is probably also at a low health because of all the torture. (Nobody wants to burn a heal spell!) Not only that, but he sustained a lighting bolt, and has no equipment whatsoever unlike all of the others.

I know that there have been a lot of discussion threads about this, but to me, it's crazy to think that this is con alone.:smallbiggrin:

I'm pretty sure Redcloak healed all his wounds so Xykon and his minions didn't kill him in their death traps. Bet he's regretting it now.

Also; I can only wonder where Redcloak is and who his next right-hand goblin is - he needs someone to interact with.

[Tempest Fennac]

JeptCloak, I'd argue that a quote that 1 person used on another thread about V's power is accurate: just because you have the most powerful gun in the world, it doesn't mean you'll have the common sense to avoid shooting yourself in the foot.

I'm guessing that it will be up to the MitD here looking at how desparate the situation is for O-Chul. Whether his willing to do anything against Xykon is another thing, though.

[Kaytara]

Finally! Wonderful. :) I guess that if the phylactery is going down now, the only way to destroy it would be tossing it into the rift. For which V and O-Chul would need to cooperate, of course. And it seems Xykon is "done" with O-Chul, so it is now up to the MitD to intervene to ensure his friend's "escapes and lives happily ever after" ending. :)

[steam_mage]

looks like mitd will have to do something otherwise xylon just has to cast see invisibility and v is screwed

prediction: the father of mitd turns out to be.........THE SNARL!!! (dun dun DUN!!!)

[Ron Miel]

Now that the phylactery has been blasted by lightning, it will break easily.

[Krenn]

V can open the door and stay invisible. The problem is that it isn't too hard to figure out where he is if you can see a door being opened.

Which is why the imp would need an excuse to just happen to be opening doors at that place and time.

[Dagren]

Aww, poor Jirix. I know he was one of the bad guys, but still I feel sorry for him for some reason.

Yeah this confirms that the fiends don't give a crap about V's soul or the splice.Um, was that sarcasm?

Of course, V's mage hand has to have a range of at least 50 or so feet... :smallamused:Heh, good idea. Use that to open the door as a distraction, and escape through the hole in the wall. Xykon will spend the next few days searching the tower in bewilderment. :smallbiggrin:

[Trixie]

Awww, Xykon just become that much more awesome :smallbiggrin:

Again. I wonder how he keeps doing this?

Oh, and loved that Tolkien reference :smalltongue:

Plus, is there that triple-digit-level-guy I see that came back to whine about not-at-all-railroading, again? :P

[Gaiyamato]

Closed door.. such simple things. :)
But he could turn ethereal and just walk through.

[Noeru]

Poor Jirix.

Would someone tell me how much damage do a disintegrate, meteor swarm and the maximized lighting bolt do?

That seem an awful lot of damage he taken.

[Dark Faun]

Wonderful new comic! :smalltongue:

I love the way V looks when she's invisible. And the fiends' TV is awesome. Is there anything it can't do?

I believe there is a small mistake though. Orange Eyes is supposed to be on the left of the couch, but in the tenth panel his speech bubble is above the fiend on the right of the couch. Lee suddenly went at the left of the couch from the right in this panel, too.

[Simons Mith]

Xykon is giving away lots of tactically useful information here. If V does escape, and I assume he will, I suspect knowing things like just how well the phylactery is protected will be vital.

[Athaniar]

Great one as always. More awesome from both Xykon and O-Chul, and more bad luck for V.

[H. Zee]

O-Chul: Even fiends root for him when he really gets going.

I hope V is able to rescue O-Chul and and escape. She really needs some redemption right about now. :smallamused:

[Dagren]

Closed door.. such simple things. :)
But he could turn ethereal and just walk through.#345 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0345.html), last panel. :smallbiggrin:

Xykon is giving away lots of tactically useful information here. If V does escape, and I assume he will, I suspect knowing things like just how well the phylactery is protected will be vital.I actually wondered a while ago if this fight would turn out to be a good thing for the order overall, since prior to this they didn't know Xykon knew Energy Drain, that's a pretty big piece of intel by itself. I definitely agree.

[ImmortalAer]

It's probably locked as well. With rusty quarter-pin hinges. And a bolt.

The best result for the next one would be Redcloak opening it from the other side. :smallwink:

[Mannryu]

Oh gods.. poor V.. This did not work out well at all..
And I almost forgot that the fiends are watching this all... I wouldn't mind if they could send me a copy of this video.

[Taekwondodo]

Not a closed door! Dun dun DUN!!!

Yeah noone guessed that the phalactery would have protection itself, man we're dumb...

[Killer Angel]

It's fantastic to see how, in the middle of a dark gliffhanger, the Giant makes me smile with lighhearted puns...

Also, it’s interesting to see the demons/devils, worried for V.
V. is no more under soul splice, so they need him alive for their plans, they don't care about him dead to harass his soul. I think this is the proof that they intend to “control” his actions, while he’s alive.

[warmachine]

The bane of all invisible characters. Superb punchline.

[pcgneurotic]

O'Chul's terrific. He's one of those guys who's been bubbling away for a while now, and his heat is building. If he's going to go out with a bang, let it be an almighty f*****g bang the likes of which OOTSers will be talking about for years to come! Viva O'Chul!

[ShinyRocks]

I believe there is a small mistake though. Orange Eyes is supposed to be on the left of the couch, but in the tenth panel his speech bubble is above the fiend on the right of the couch. Lee suddenly went at the left of the couch from the right in this panel, too.

That's just because he sat down. First panel with the fiends, we can see space at the right hand side of the sofa, while he's standing up. So he takes his seat on the right, and that's where they are for the rest of the strip.

So, Xykon's turned his attention back to V. I'd love to see O'Chul, across two panels, going 'Lay on ... ' so you think he's going to heal himself, with the next being '... HANDS!' and him using it to attack Xykon rather than heal and allow V to escape.

I just can't see both V and O'Chul surviving this, unless, as his been suggested, the MitD comes to Mr Stiffly's aid.

[Volkov]

Nooooooo!!!! Jirix!!!!!!! Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aapje]

That's just because he sat down. First panel with the fiends, we can see space at the right hand side of the sofa, while he's standing up. So he takes his seat on the right, and that's where they are for the rest of the strip.

Tenth panel, not ninth.

Panel 10 we are looking from behind them. So the yellow speech balloon should be on the right side in that panel instead of the left.

[derfenrirwolv]

Would someone tell me how much damage do a disintegrate, meteor swarm and the maximized lighting bolt do?

Disintegrate: Save likely made 5d6. Average 18

Meteor swarm: 4 spheres X ( 2d6 bludgeoning + 6d6 fire) =32 d6 = 112
No save when you get whacked by the ranged touch attack.


Maximized lightning bolt= 60 damage.

Total: 190

Assuming a 24 con, average HP/level and improved toughness

13.5 hp per level 18 points at level 1

He'd have 180 points at level 13. Enough to be alive but not up unless there was less than average damage or more than average HP, both of which are always possible.

Anyone else wondering why demons have to go to the bathroom? (and seriously hoping that john is the bathroom?)

[dancrilis]

Did O-Chul just die off-panel?

Anyway that was a great comic well well worth the wait, Jirix deserves a raise.

[ShinyRocks]

Tenth panel, not ninth.

Panel 10 we are looking from behind them. So the yellow speech balloon should be on the right side in that panel instead of the left.

My bad. I was reading the TV screen as a panel in its own right, and then the speech bubbles and tops of hoods being face on, in another panel.

EDIT: Yes, that would make it the eleventh panel. My counting isn't good today.

[Godskook]

So *THAT'S* what happens when the unstoppable force(Xykon) meets the immovable object(O-Chul). I've always wondered. Thanks Rich!

[fruityjanitor]

V was not in over his head, he was considerably above Xykon when he picked his fight... he was railroaded by plot.

Because it's impossible for somebody to lose to a less powerful, but more cunning and prepared adversary, right? ;)

Anyway, I should've known the phylactery would be unbreakable/hard to break. Rich is pretty good at twists that seem so obvious after they happen. Kind of a bummer after seeing O-chul go Rambo on Redcloak but oh well.

It's interesting that the Fiends seem to be more interested in V's survival than they are about getting her soul or having her keep the soul splices. I wonder what that's all about.

[Rev. George]

Nobody wants to burn a heal spell!
But he could lay on hands...


Disintegrate: Save likely made 5d6. Average 18

Meteor swarm: 4 spheres X ( 2d6 bludgeoning + 6d6 fire) =32 d6 = 112
No save when you get whacked by the ranged touch attack.


Maximized lightning bolt= 60 damage.

Total: 190

Assuming a 24 con, average HP/level and improved toughness

13.5 hp per level 18 points at level 1

He'd have 180 points at level 13. Enough to be alive but not up unless there was less than average damage or more than average HP, both of which are always possible.

Not to mention he could have saved vs the lightning bolt and taken 30 points instead..

[RMS Oceanic]

Ah! Another cliffhanger!

Seriously, this is really good stuff. It looks like V, and possible MitD, face a tough choice, while O-Chul goes out with a bang.

Of course, that can all change. Either way, I anticipate that V somehow gets back to the order just before Durkon finishes resurrecting Roy. I daresay we've been waiting a little too long for that to happen off panel.

[derfenrirwolv]

Not to mention he could have saved vs the lightning bolt and taken 30 points instead..

Possible but not likely. Given Xykons level , magic items, and o chuls lack of equipment +a fighter paladin's lack of a reflex save i think you're looking at the "only on a natural 20" there... and O'chuls used up those for a while i think.

Lay on hands requires a charismia bonus

[Ave]

I thought liches see invisible by default.

O-chul had to die (or go down) to activate his dark friend.

[Lysander]

V could always take a running leap out of the hole in the wall and fly away. Or seeing as Xykon might expect that, create an illusion and have it fly out the hole in the wall to lead him off. Or he could open the door with Open/Close while standing far away and cast ghost sound to make it seem like someone invisible was running down the stairs and THEN fly out the hole.

Or he could try a spell effective at stopping undead and hope the roll goes incredibly well.

In any case we'll find out what happens soon, and I'm looking forward to it with anticipation.

[RMS Oceanic]

I thought liches see invisible by default.

O-chul had to die (or go down) to activate his dark friend.

*Looks them up* (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm) Nope, apparently not.

[silvadel]

Actually, it would be in Redcloaks style to have a fake door marked "stairs" with a dispel magic/alarm trap set on the doorknob.

[Deepkicker]

Keep on fighting, O-Chul!
And V...try...escaping better.

[T-O-E]

Uh oh! O-chul is screwed!

[Hatchet]

Well, at least O-Chul managed to kill Jirix and poke Redcloak's eye out before he got stomped. Not bad for a tortured prisoner, who took Disintegrate, Meteor Swarm and Maximited Lightning Bolt to the face.

Too bad he didn't actually accomplish anything, thanks to Redcloak being a high level cleric, who can undo all the damage he did in a snap.


...goddamn clerics.

[whitemane]

Ah yes... another example of why doors are the bane of invisible creatures. I'm thinking that V would've been better served by casting Fly and heading out the rather large opening that used to be the wall of the castle...

[Scarlet Knight]

Anyone else wondering why demons have to go to the bathroom? (and seriously hoping that john is the bathroom?)

They don't HAVE to go use the bathroom; they do it because it's FUN to go onto the poor tortured soul named John...probably punishment for a life of peeking into the outhouse at others...:smallyuk:

[Rev. George]

re: damage-

We cannot know how many hp Ochul has, but.... he looks alot less "wounded" than he did here:http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0542.html


Possible but not likely. Given Xykons level , magic items, and o chuls lack of equipment +a fighter paladin's lack of a reflex save i think you're looking at the "only on a natural 20" there... and O'chuls used up those for a while i think.

The base Save for a LB is 13 +int. Xkon doesn't seem that smart, but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and say 18-19, that gives a +4, so a 17 save...

Ochul was a fighter for 12 years http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html. if he got to 9th level (not unlikely) he has a +3 to his save. if he has more than 5 levels of paladin, he gets a +2. That gives him a 40% chance of making the save (he needs a 12 or better) If his levels were lower (as low as 6/3), then he would need a 14 or better. Still well within the realm of reasonable.

To reach "natural 20" range, you'd need to believe Xykon had an int of 22 or 26

Of course I just bollocksed this up because I forgot X was a sorcerer, and thus uses charisma....I wonder how many people will quote it anyway to point out my error....

-+G

[The Pilgrim]

There goes Jirix. As I feared he was nothing but another redshirt. Wonder if Redcloack (wherever he is) will bother to resurrect him. But we haven't seen him resurrecting hobbos, not even after his fall-from-the-horse. More likely poor Jirix will join the zombie waggon, like usual for Team Evil's minions.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Xykon will kill O-Chul, at least not now. If Team Evil wanted O-Chul dead, they would have killed him long time ago. But they hold him prisoner, for a reason. Of course, both Redcloack and Jirix know that O-Chul is a liability, and would kill him straight right now. But Redcloack is gone and Jirix is dead. And for Xykon, O-Chul is still a potentially valuable source of information that must be kept alive and in prison for torture.

As for V, I still wonder why she hasn't just fly away through the hole in the wall. The Fiends confirm that their plan involves V being alive, so the speculations about their plan being taking control of her later when near a Gate gain strenght.

So what now? Is the Imp gonna teleport there and open the door for V?

[Mando Knight]

A new OotS? On my birthday? Giant, you shouldn't have! :smalltongue:

[Ellye]

The base Save for a LB is 13 +int. Xkon doesn't seem that smart, but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and say 18-19, that gives a +4, so a 17 save...He's a Sorcerer. It's CHA, not INT.

[Sleypy]

Hi this is my first post on the forums after reading OOTS for a couple years now.

Probably a stretch here, but maybe the cage had some magic protection to keep people in. Holding the bars is now protecting him in some way. Like I said its a stretch.

[Super_slash2]

I think one of the best intel gathered here is that V now knows that Red Cloak's Holy Symbol is incredibly important.

I like MiTD as being cute and somewhat silly. On one hand, I want him to rescue O-Chul but if he does so, he'll have *gulp* character development. Well, as long as it all works out....

I hope they raise Jirix. He was a good right-hand man for Red Cloak.

Tsukiko is still sleeping somewhere on the other side of that door. Even if makes it through, it's going to be hard as heck to escape. Especially since all The Goblins are trained.

Maybe losing the splices reverted V back to how she was before the splicing - not reversing the healing from not trancing but reverting her spell slots back to empty. I checked, Fly is a level more than Invisibility so that could be a reason. I wouldn't know though.

[gamephil]

Lay on hands requires a charismia bonus

It was his dump stat when he was a fighter, doesn't mean he didn't buy it up as a paladin :)

[Dagren]

Say, am I the only one who really liked O-Chul in panel 7? Poor guy.

[Shatteredtower]

Stairs? Why's V considering use of the stairs? I mean, it's not like there's a sign saying, "In case of Meteor Swarm, do not use elevator". It's times like these that the rope and grappling hook might be handy. Or... any of three spells:

Feather Fall, of course, would be the most useful, but it gives V's position away.

Hold Portal is the one I'd like to see used, just because it seems like the absolute worst spell for this situation. Naturally, that's why I doubt we'll see it.

Suggestion is the obvious third, though I can't see any advantage to getting O-Chul to open the door instead. There are other things he might be able to persuade O-Chul to do, but I don't know of any that might be more useful than getting the paladin to do than he's already failing to do. Okay, I can think of one thing, but I'm not sure how getting O-Chul to talk to Xykon would help either. The paladin doesn't know anything about the other gates.

As for Invisibility, well, there goes any chance of a potty break for V today, unless it's being taken right now. Under the circumstances, that would be a reasonable possibility, but it would mean that the fiends would know the answer to the gender question.

Disintegrating the phylactery wouldn't be a bad idea, but V's entire personal supply was used up fighting an imp, and the link won't provide any more. That other suggestion for dealing with it was pretty good, though.

Curiously, I feel bad for everyone in this strip, some more than others. Jirix gets the most sympathy for taking one for his team. O-Chul next, because it hurts and stings. V next because it sucks when your 18 Intelligence loses out to inanimate objects, but hey, kudos to the elf for grabbing the opportunity to flee. Then it's the phylactery, because really, who wants to be pounded on by Xykon. Then it's the fiends down below, because is there anything sadder than a bunch of would-be evil masterminds with nothing better to do than sit around on the coach watching reality television? Then it's Qaar, because while being the houseguest of that particular group is pretty sad, hey, at least there are snacks and free cable.

Last is Xykon, and that's only because I remember the frustration of misplacing an action figure.

[Rollory]

V's not going to get redeemed. V is going to escape, terribly miss having ultimate arcane power, and try negotiating another deal to get it back "for just a little longer". Only this time the terms of the deal and the benefits won't be nearly so favorable.

The fiends wouldn't have offered the original deal if they didn't have reason to think it would lead to something really worthwhile, and V hasn't fallen enough yet to qualify.

[Teddy]

Cool, and I just wondered when O-Chul would kill Jirix. Got a bit dissapointed when V didn't manage to do that. Lack of casualties, lost the feeling of ultimate power.

And a closed door:smallbiggrin:


Disintegrating the phylactery wouldn't be a bad idea, but V's entire personal supply was used up fighting an imp, and the link won't provide any more. That other suggestion for dealing with it was pretty good, though.

But V was restored as through eight hours of rest as a part of the deal. S/he should have some Disintegrations prepared.

[Ron Miel]

I don't understand the title. WHAT probably squeaks? The Holy symbol/ phylactery? Why should it squeak? I get the feeling I'm missing some reference here.

[aapje]

I don't understand the title. WHAT probably squeaks? The Holy symbol/ phylactery? Why should it squeak? I get the feeling I'm missing some reference here.

The door:smallsigh:

[Dr. Cthulwho]

I just thought - it's interesting how Xykon has shown no concern at all for Redcloak's well being, even though he must realise for O-Chul to have Redcloak's Holy Symbol something must have happened to Redcloak.


There goes Jirix. As I feared he was nothing but another redshirt. Wonder if Redcloack (wherever he is) will bother to resurrect him. But we haven't seen him resurrecting hobbos, not even after his fall-from-the-horse. More likely poor Jirix will join the zombie waggon, like usual for Team Evil's minions.

I think having a name and share a plot important moment with Redcloak should count for something. If not getting raised he could at least get an intelligent undead treatment from Tsukiko.

He deserves better then mere zombie-hood.


Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Xykon will kill O-Chul, at least not now. If Team Evil wanted O-Chul dead, they would have killed him long time ago. But they hold him prisoner, for a reason. Of course, both Redcloack and Jirix know that O-Chul is a liability, and would kill him straight right now. But Redcloack is gone and Jirix is dead. And for Xykon, O-Chul is still a potentially valuable source of information that must be kept alive and in prison for torture.

Hehe, it would be kind of funny if Redcloak came back and saw O-Chul still alive and totally flipped out at Xykon, asking why he didn't kill him, only for Xykon to point out how Redcloak told him not to kill him.


Curiously, I feel bad for everyone in this strip, some more than others. Jirix gets the most sympathy for taking one for his team.

Yeah, he was a trooper, even coming back to check on Redcloak, which is brave considering the maddness that had been occuring. And he did the smart thing alerting Xykon.


Disintegrating the phylactery wouldn't be a bad idea, but V's entire personal supply was used up fighting an imp, and the link won't provide any more.

Maybe, although V would have heard Xykon say there were magical protections on it, so he might not want to waste spells (even if he had some disintegrates left).

[DarkEternal]

Seems to me that months of meditating/pondering about the Azure city battle did little to nothing to improve V's demeanor. Still, a logical way out.

O-Chul should pull off a Roy, and just pick up Xykon and throw into something very painful looking which I am sure exists there.

[Dilvish]

Rev. George, you win! At least one poster didn't read your entire post before correcting you.

dilvish


re: damage-

We cannot know how many hp Ochul has, but.... he looks alot less "wounded" than he did here:http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0542.html



The base Save for a LB is 13 +int. Xkon doesn't seem that smart, but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and say 18-19, that gives a +4, so a 17 save...

Ochul was a fighter for 12 years http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html. if he got to 9th level (not unlikely) he has a +3 to his save. if he has more than 5 levels of paladin, he gets a +2. That gives him a 40% chance of making the save (he needs a 12 or better) If his levels were lower (as low as 6/3), then he would need a 14 or better. Still well within the realm of reasonable.

To reach "natural 20" range, you'd need to believe Xykon had an int of 22 or 26

Of course I just bollocksed this up because I forgot X was a sorcerer, and thus uses charisma....I wonder how many people will quote it anyway to point out my error....

-+G

[SohumB]

That callous last line - the Giant wouldn't kill O-Chul offpanel, would he?

And I'm hoping V's pausing there because he's seeing O-Chul's beatdown and having flashbacks to the last time he ran and gearing up to Do Something... but I know he probably won't.

[aka Argent]

No doubt O-Chul just got KOed but not killed.

As for his wounds, by now I assume he's got at least 4 paladin levels so he gets spells and he seems to be made of Wisdom so that's at least one CLW to supplement normal healing.

In this combat I think it's safe to assume he's making all of his saves, too.

[Ron Miel]

The door:smallsigh:

Okay, that makes sense.

[Dilvish]

Awww, Xykon just become that much more awesome :smallbiggrin:

Again. I wonder how he keeps doing this?

Oh, and loved that Tolkien reference :smalltongue:


I missed the Tolkien reference. It will probably be obvious to me once you point it out.

Regarding O-Chul's toughness, I still think he has the benefit of friends in high and holy planes. With all his near-death experiences, I assume he has had the opportunity to visit with representatives of the Azurite deities.

dilvish

[Blanth]

Finally! Wonderful. :) I guess that if the phylactery is going down now, the only way to destroy it would be...

Give it to Frudu and Samwose to chuck it in a volcano? :smallbiggrin:

[Volkov]

Actually, it would be in Redcloaks style to have a fake door marked "stairs" with a dispel magic/alarm trap set on the doorknob.

Coated in acid, with a bucket of unholy water waiting right above. And pit fiend venom, lots and lots of pit fiend venom!

[Doug Lampert]

#345 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0345.html), last panel. :smallbiggrin:
Worse than that. The Listen check to HEAR someone spellcasting is roughly DC 0. Localizing him to a single square based on the sound is no worse than DC 20.

Is there any reason to think that ANY of V's spells are prepared silent?

Maybe one or two escape spells, but most of his spells can't be cast invisible without giving away his location.

[Sijo]

Man, O-Chul must have a LOT of hit points. Or some "Die Hard" Paladin feat. :smallbiggrin:

I'm glad to see the phylactery wasn't so easy to break. It would have been silly for someone like Xykon to be so careless.

Nice to see the Infernal Trio (what's their name again?) back, and making a point about not being able to interfere directly. Though I was surprised they didn't want V to die, I thought their whole plan was about damning his soul after death. I guess they just want to use him later, perhaps when he finally finds the Snarl.

[Menas]

Ok, so what's the deal with the fiends really?

They said they can't interact with anyone directly on the mortal plane unless they're making a deal with them, but they've ALREADY make a deal with Vaar, and it involved being able to take him/her over for an amount of time equal to how long the soul splice lasted (for each of them).

So there doesn't seem to be any reason one of them (or one of their minions) couldn't act through Vaar right now to get him/her out of there no problem. And it's obviously in their best interests to do so since they're saying the soul splice will have been a complete waste of time if Vaar dies.

The whole 'can't interfere in the mortal plane directly' line seemed pretty weak when taking into consideration the backstory that's gotten us this far...

That being said, I'd love to see MitD join the fray at this point!

[Badgercloak]

Great comic, Thanks Giant.

Invisible while an Azurite is in mortal peril and could use some help. Hmmm could this be the act that redeems V or condems him/her?

[the_tick_rules]

Yeah, phalacteries are pretty tough. Being magically reinforced as well it'll be tough to crack. Closed door, the simple things can sometimes be the worst huh?

[Dark Faun]

Ok, so what's the deal with the fiends really?

They said they can't interact with anyone directly on the mortal plane unless they're making a deal with them, but they've ALREADY make a deal with Vaar, and it involved being able to take him/her over for an amount of time equal to how long the soul splice lasted (for each of them).

So there doesn't seem to be any reason one of them (or one of their minions) couldn't act through Vaar right now to get him/her out of there no problem. And it's obviously in their best interests to do so since they're saying the soul splice will have been a complete waste of time if Vaar dies.

The whole 'can't interfere in the mortal plane directly' line seemed pretty weak when taking into consideration the backstory that's gotten us this far...
I think it refers to the fact they needed Qarr to open a letter before being summoned to the mortal plane.

[seanearlyaug]

The maximum best time for O'Chul to have attacked is when he could have helped V fight that big battle. That has passed. What he may find instead is that V has decided that there is no way to survive, that the debt is piling up, and that the time has come to service that debt. So it could have ended up with C fighting everyone *and* the remains of V's hitpoints and spells. Well that was my though for last time.

This is interesting. It may be that the first priority of the 3 hoodied figures will be V's initial survival.

Initial, as at least one of them (likely and currently) has V's soul if V should die..., but V alive body and soul, and maybe with renewed hp and spells, could be interesting and obviously would be useful for their agenda.

And afterward V can be used as a soul-splice part.

Sean

[Mojique]

Love the fiend admitting that even he was rooting for O-Chul for a sec.
And I favored Xykon in this situation. It shouldn't be to easy to destroy this lich. And finally, it will be Roy's job.

[factotum]

The fiends wouldn't have offered the original deal if they didn't have reason to think it would lead to something really worthwhile, and V hasn't fallen enough yet to qualify.

You're assuming they're after V's soul when he dies, but it seems unlikely they would put this much effort into getting a 14th level wizard...heck, V's old master would be a better choice, being higher level and presumably older and closer to death!

[Yoyoyo]

You can count on V, s/he will always let you down. I expect V to skulk away as soon as someone opens that door (too funny). I bet she won't reach O-chul's level of self-sacrifice until later, if ever.

And O-chul surviving to taunt Red Cloak some more would be great to see, but O-chul living through this would steal power from his speach to MitD. I think he needs to die to motivate MitD to do . . . whatever MitD is supposed to do. Eat Xykon, probably.

[MReav]

I think the best thing for V to do is to cast Fly and fly out of that big chunk he created.

That is, if he's still got 3rd level spells.

[Morgaledh]

V was not in over his head, he was considerably above Xykon when he picked his fight... he was railroaded by plot.

True. He picked a fight he could have won, and had the plot not required things to go the way it has, he was in a winnable situation. V is still probably my favorite character, and I hope he's able to laugh about all this later... we'll see.

[docstrange]

C'mon V! You're invisible again, and you have to choose between your survival and helping O-Chul... just like the fall of Azure City. You can redeem yourself! I know you can do it! COME ON V!!!1!

[snafu]

Well, first thought is the bloody big hole in the wall, of course. But V's flight effect has been dispelled, it's unlikely she prepared more than one, and... well, even if she had, she probably doesn't have it prepared silent.

She's got a bit of time before Xykon finishes killing the paladin... is there anything in the rules about how loudly you have to say the magic words? Can V whisper, very very quietly, her way through a flight or feather fall spell? If so, then she can still bravely Sir Robin her way out of trouble.

[Sotris]

C'mon V! You're invisible again, and you have to choose between your survival and helping O-Chul... just like the fall of Azure City. You can redeem yourself! I know you can do it! COME ON V!!!1!It certainly looks like a Karma moment- the analogy is striking. However, even if V has his moment of redemption and tries to do something to help this time... There really isn't much he can do.

Unless, perhaps, he targets the phylactery and breaks it. Or at least dispels its protections, and O-Chul smashes it with his dying breath.

[Scarlet Knight]

I just thought - it's interesting how Xykon has shown no concern at all for Redcloak's well being, even though he must realise for O-Chul to have Redcloak's Holy Symbol something must have happened to Redcloak.

I would have been more surprised if he HAD noticed Redcloak was gone, much less cared. Remember:

:xykon: "Sacrificing minions: Is there any problem it can't solve?"

[Anteros]

Ok, so what's the deal with the fiends really?

They said they can't interact with anyone directly on the mortal plane unless they're making a deal with them, but they've ALREADY make a deal with Vaar, and it involved being able to take him/her over for an amount of time equal to how long the soul splice lasted (for each of them).

So there doesn't seem to be any reason one of them (or one of their minions) couldn't act through Vaar right now to get him/her out of there no problem. And it's obviously in their best interests to do so since they're saying the soul splice will have been a complete waste of time if Vaar dies.

The whole 'can't interfere in the mortal plane directly' line seemed pretty weak when taking into consideration the backstory that's gotten us this far...

That being said, I'd love to see MitD join the fray at this point!


How exactly would the fiend's taking over V's soul help anyway? He'd still be weak, trapped, and powerless...just with a Fiend in control.

Also, that would probably tip the fiend's hand to V that they want to keep him alive for some reason, which they no doubt want to avoid.

[Selene]

I missed the Tolkien reference. It will probably be obvious to me once you point it out.

You're not alone there. I missed it, too.


I think the best thing for V to do is to cast Fly and fly out of that big chunk he created.

As long as he grabs O-Chul on his way out. He's already been abandoned by more than his fair share of OotS members. But I think V is going to step up this time. O-Chul just saved his life. It's time to return the favor.

[Scarlet Knight]

You can count on V, s/he will always let you down. I expect V to skulk away as soon as someone opens that door (too funny). I bet she won't reach O-chul's level of self-sacrifice until later, if ever.

Sounds like time for a chorus of "Southern Cross":

So we cheated and we lied
And we tested
And we never failed to fail
It was the easiest thing to do.
You will survive being bested...

[Berserk Monk]

Nice one. Never thought the phylactery would be protected by spells, but it's so obvious. Anyone else notice the similarities between this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html) and this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html). I really hope there will be some sort of character development between the two.

[wzeller]

It certainly looks like a Karma moment- the analogy is striking. However, even if V has his moment of redemption and tries to do something to help this time... There really isn't much he can do.

That may be the whole point of the similarity: There really wasn't much she could do the first time, either. Anything he tried to do would have just gotten her killed.

That didn't keep him from having nightmares whenever she tried to trance, and the guilt over doing nothing was killing him and led down the road to this whole part of the story.

And now she finds himself in the same situation. (Heh. That was a funny pronoun juxtaposition.)

But this time she's had a long experience of what happens when you run away from certain defeat, and may decide he doesn't want to cope with that all over again. She may have suffered long enough over his initial failure at Azure City to finally make the self-sacrifice to keep the battle going.

But even then, it's still for all the wrong reasons - She won't be making the ultimate sacrifice because it's the right thing to do, but rather because he'll not want to personally suffer the effects of failure again. Like everything else she has done, this will be ultimately done in the name of selfishness. And will therefore fail.

This story arc is basically The Empire Strikes Back. It must end with a resounding victory by Team Evil. And then the Jedi will Strike Back in the next book.

w

<edit: Had two "she" pronouns in a row. Couldn't have that, now could we?>

[Yoyoyo]

Sounds like time for a chorus of "Southern Cross":

So we cheated and we lied
And we tested
And we never failed to fail
It was the easiest thing to do.
You will survive being bested...

Or: We are golden, caught in the devil's bargin, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden . . . .

Dueling CSN lyrics, who would have thunk it? :smallamused:

[Undead Prince]

Awesome comic. And I certainly enjoy that someone showed a bit of foresight. Xykon gets a big plus for not being an idiot about his phylactery.

Oh, and O-Chul is apparently level 16 8=))


I thought liches see invisible by default.

Nope.

Although certainly any arcane spellcaster worth his salt would have permanent See Invisibility (and Arcane Sight, which is like Blindsense, only better) active.


Assuming a 24 con

Unlikely. As a human, the max ability he started with could be 18, and even if he put every single upgrade into CON (not the best thing to do with your ability points when you're a Fighter/Paladin), he'd have 21 at level 12, or 22 at level 16. The only way he could get it would be by shelling out 55,000 gp for a Manual of Bodily Health +2. And I don't think even O-Chul is that obsessed about buffing his bod.


He'd have 180 points at level 13. Enough to be alive but not up unless there was less than average damage or more than average HP, both of which are always possible.

I'd say two things happened:

1) He saved against the Lightning Bolt,

2) He's actually higher level than 13. He got four attacks vs. the phylactery, which means he's reached level 16. That would give him hp to spare.


Jirix gets the most sympathy for taking one for his team.

He was too stupid to live.

His team was attacked by an epic enemy. He was sent to check for any more enemies.

He didn't buff, didn't have minions, and didn't even have a weapon.

I mean - come on! Is this guy a pacifist or something?

He deserved to die, and not be resurrected. The evil afterlife won't do him any bad, he's a lemure already.

He obviously takes after Redcloak, though. These guys have enemies jumping at them from the potted fern, and Red still doesn't carry a weapon, buff in the morning, or surround himself with meatshields.

Maybe losing an eye and a lieutenant would teach Red a lesson about combat readiness?

Nah. My guess is that it will only make him more fearful 8=))

[goodyarn]

Hehe, not so fast V, you're not out of the woods yet. Also looks as if Xykon's got O-Chul under control...until MitD starts getting into things I guess.

I think V is about to watch while a brave fighter who interceded and saved V's life DIES while V sits there, invisible, knowing his/her magic was not strong enough to save him -- once again.

If so, whatever anguish V has gone through up until now, it is about it get even worse.

And then V is going to go back to the demons and demand even more power, for an even greater price.

That's my prediction.

[fishguy]

Or: We are golden, caught in the devil's bargin, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden . . . .

Dueling CSN lyrics, who would have thunk it?

Those are Joni Mitchell's lyrics

[arpin]

Couldn't V just turn ethereal and walk through the door?

[Blaznak]

Ya know... I got no idea where this is going next... :smallwink: All I know is its a very fun ride.
Later

[Essex]

At this point, I think that the best plan for destroying the phylactery is for O-Chul to pick it up while dropping the iron bar as a free action and hope that he rolls a 1 on a save versus one of Xykon's spells before dying. Since O-Chul has no actual equipment, the only item in his possession that could possibly be affected by the failure is the amulet in his hand.

[StrykerX]

You can count on V, s/he will always let you down. I expect V to skulk away as soon as someone opens that door (too funny). I bet she won't reach O-chul's level of self-sacrifice until later, if ever.

Wow, a wizard (who isn't even Good) not reaching the level of self-sacrifice of a high level paladin? Who'd have thought? :smallyuk:

Seriously... there are old wizards and bold wizards, but very few old, bold wizards. When you have 1d4 HP per level you tend to become a master of the strategic withdrawal. And to be fair, heroic sacrifices look great in stories but running away, regaining spells, and trying again later does have a better chance of actually working.

[Winterwind]

Can somebody enlighten me just why the whole soul splice affair would be a huge waste of time if V should die here?

The fiends allegedly did it to prove that it is possible for the three evil alignments to work together sufficiently to bestow such power on a mortal. They did.

They might also have been interested in seeing whether such a triple soul splice would cause the affected being to act with more evil and folly. It does.

So, why would it have been a waste of time if V dies now?

[Draz74]

As for people suggesting a Fly spell -- how many of your Wizards prepare Fly in the same day that they prepare Overland Flight? You probably don't expect your Overland Flight to actually get dispelled, do you?

Let's also remember that V's currently-prepared spells were chosen when (s)he was on a barren rock in the middle of the ocean, preparing to fight an imp.

[Draz74]

Can somebody enlighten me just why the whole soul splice affair would be a huge waste of time if V should die here?

The fiends allegedly did it to prove that it is possible for the three evil alignments to work together sufficiently to bestow such power on a mortal. They did.

They might also have been interested in seeing whether such a triple soul splice would cause the affected being to act with more evil and folly. It does.

So, why would it have been a waste of time if V dies now?

Because their real plan is to cash in on V's debt to them at an opportune moment in order to seize a Snarl-Gate.

[Undead Prince]

C'mon V! You're invisible again, and you have to choose between your survival and helping O-Chul... just like the fall of Azure City. You can redeem yourself! I know you can do it! COME ON V!!!1!

Yeah, get your ambiguously-gendered butt outta there while the going's good... so that the heroic paladin's sacrifice is not in vain, of course 8=))

I mean, choosing between your survival and something else, rhethorical question, right? If your entire schtick is laying your life for the greater good (or even the moderate neutral), then hey, big chance to throw existence away via spectacularly one-sided curb stomp by an overpowering opponent. If, however, you're on the look for something like... I dunno... complete and ultimate arcane power, survival's gonna be pretty high on the list of things to hold on to.

[mindsword]

The fiends want her alive presumably because they can use part of their debt while she is alive. They know about the snarl and know it can be used, hopefully to an evil purpose. V will be close to the gates eventually, so they can use her to mess with the gates to their own purpose. Remember, they have nearly one hour's control over V's soul. and the soul controls the body, possibly. or maybe some other soul controls the body while the soul is tortured.

[Undead Prince]

As for people suggesting a Fly spell -- how many of your Wizards prepare Fly in the same day that they prepare Overland Flight? You probably don't expect your Overland Flight to actually get dispelled, do you?

Um, yes we do? It's called, contingency planning? A.k.a. "Plan B"? The thing people who survive tend to have?


Let's also remember that V's currently-prepared spells were chosen when (s)he was on a barren rock in the middle of the ocean, preparing to fight an imp.

Something tells me flying is a pretty useful thing to have in spades when you're on a barren rock in the middle of the ocean, and preparing to fight a flying imp.

[rman]

The Phylactery was in theblast radius of the meteor swarm and lightening bolt.
As a player I would be demanding saves be rolled.

[FatJose]

Hope Ochul's still alive. And whats all this about railroad plot? Its very easy to figure out how V lost. The mechanics in D&D spell casters is so up in the air anything can happen. It isn't a stretch for a caster 10 levels weaker to still win if their opponent is higher level but spends their turns unwisely. All it takes is slipping once. V's big error? Trying to use the same strategy he used on a dragon against Xykon. He was probably using Time Stop to completely ruin the lich's day. It was V's trump card and a well placed booby trap completely dismantled it. Without that pivotal first move, V's strategy quickly fell apart into scramble for what to do from move to move.

Xykon already was set, He was always ready for it. (or Redcloak was ready)
Step 1. Let em get toasted by the runes
Step2. Energy Drain, Maximized Energy Drain
Step 3. With Redcloak's advise Dispel. V falls in noxious gas.
Step 4. Rock

what was V's?
Step 1. Time Stop and cast all hella types of spells so I'm stronger and he's weaker/wounded (foiled)
Step 2. -revised- Chain Lightning (only one of his epic splices even knew that liches are immune to electricy) Oh and okay, let yourself get hit by Energy Drain. Just let it happen. Not like it matters, V.
Step 3. Sunburst (*golf clap* good show) Dimensional Anchor? So soon?
Step 4. Disintegra- oh...Greater Tele- oooh....no dice.

I'm sorry, V, but that's 3/10 for me. For real, dawg.

[Yendor]

:smallsigh: If they could take over V while she's alive, wouldn't they want to do it, oh I don't know, now? To make sure she got away? They specifically said they can only act directly when making a deal.

[Berserk Monk]

Couldn't V just turn ethereal and walk through the door?

How would (s)he do that?

"I can't believe I was rooting for a paladin for a moment there. I feel dirty." Priceless.

[mindsword]

:smallsigh: If they could take over V while she's alive, wouldn't they want to do it, oh I don't know, now? To make sure she got away? They specifically said they can only act directly when making a deal.

Then V will know they can. This would ruin their ability to control her near a gate, cause she'd know about the danger and tell others.

[Mc. Lovin']

Why do the demons in panel 10 swap places with each other? :smallconfused::smalltongue:

[Yoyoyo]

Wow, a wizard (who isn't even Good) not reaching the level of self-sacrifice of a high level paladin? Who'd have thought? :smallyuk:

Seriously... there are old wizards and bold wizards, but very few old, bold wizards. When you have 1d4 HP per level you tend to become a master of the strategic withdrawal. And to be fair, heroic sacrifices look great in stories but running away, regaining spells, and trying again later does have a better chance of actually working.

I get your point, but this is a story and has an end, unlike indefinite game play. I expect a heroic sacrifice from V before all is said and done. Well, at least something that qualifies as a heroic self-sacrifice for hur.

[Yoyoyo]

Those are Joni Mitchell's lyrics

CSN covered it. All I could think of.:smallwink:

[Essex]

True. He picked a fight he could have won, and had the plot not required things to go the way it has, he was in a winnable situation.
Not likely. During this battle, Xykon has used a Maximized Energy Drain (www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html) and a Superb Dispelling (www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html).

The first spell requires a 12th level spell slot, which means that Xykon must have taken Improved Spell Capacity [Epic] three times. The second spell requires taking the Epic Spellcasting [Epic] feat. That equals four epic feats.

Both feats require you to be able to cast spells of your maximum level (9th for a sorcerer) and be of epic level. Since, in Start of Darkenss, Xykon cast the 9th level Soul Bind spell shortly after becoming a lich, he must have already been 18th level or above at that point. That means that his first opportunity to attain an epic level feat would have been at 21st level. He would have then gained additional epic feats at levels 23 (class), 24 (standard progression) and 26 (class). Adding in his level adjustment for being a lich means that Xykon must have an ECL of at least 30 (and given the DC 59 Spellcraft requirement to develop Superb Dispelling, he may even be of higher level).

V may have been spliced to two epic spellcasters at the time (since the necromancer had already escaped), but this only granted access to a bunch of additional spells, not to an increase in hit points, attack bonus, saving throws, skill levels, etcetera. V was never more than a fragile egg wielding a gun.

[Zevox]

Damn it O-Chul, why you'd have to go and kill Jirix? I was hoping he might prove an interesting new recurring character... oh well.

Interesting that we don't see O-Chul actually die at this point. Theoretically, there seems little way he could survive a Meteor Swarm and a Maximized Lightning Bolt, given he almost surely didn't make any saves without a natural 20. Particularly given he also got hit with a Disintegrate, even tough he likely made his save on that one. But we should never count a character as dead until we see the "X"s in their eyes, and we don't here.

Anyway, it looks like O-Chul's little show of defiance will only give V a chance to get away. And that's only if Xykon doesn't know See Invisibility or True Seeing (or something similar). Though given the way the plot is going, he probably doesn't.

Well, I look forward to seeing how this goes for V, anyway. And hopefully seeing O-Chul actually die.

Zevox

[Axl_Rose]

Perhaps V will jump out the window and have a feather fall prepared?

[Menas]

How exactly would the fiend's taking over V's soul help anyway? He'd still be weak, trapped, and powerless...just with a Fiend in control.

Also, that would probably tip the fiend's hand to V that they want to keep him alive for some reason, which they no doubt want to avoid.

Ok, granted, the Soul Splice is DM homebrew to begin with, so there can be a lot of artistic license with it.

I figured that 'equal time' meant that the fiends would have direct access to Vaar's body with their own powers intact, and that Vaar would be reduced to a splice himself/herself, which would basically mean that he/she is irrelevant to whatever the fiend currently in control wants to do. Which would also mean that the fiend would be able to wipe Xykon out of existence or teleport Vaar away, whatever it is that they want to do.

I don't think intervention by a fiend here would tip Vaar off to anything. Vaar already knows what he/she agreed to, and it's only logical that the fiends would want him/her to remain alive to protect their investment.

[Menas]

The Phylactery was in theblast radius of the meteor swarm and lightening bolt.
As a player I would be demanding saves be rolled.

Hear, hear!

Based on what Xykon said it sounds like the item is incredibly durable at this point however, saves or no saves.

[Essex]

It isn't a stretch for a caster 10 levels weaker to still win if their opponent is higher level but spends their turns unwisely.
V isn't 10 levels weaker. Assuming that V is 14th level (which many people do) and that Xykon has an ECL of at least 30 (as noted in my previous post), the disparity is 16 or more levels. Unless V spends a lot of time on optimization boards attempting to become the new incarnation of PunPun, V could not have won with anything less than a lucky shot on a save or die effect.

[Porthos]

Unlikely. As a human, the max ability he started with could be 18, and even if he put every single upgrade into CON (not the best thing to do with your ability points when you're a Fighter/Paladin), he'd have 21 at level 12, or 22 at level 16. The only way he could get it would be by shelling out 55,000 gp for a Manual of Bodily Health +2. And I don't think even O-Chul is that obsessed about buffing his bod.


Rich stated in War and XPs that O-Chul's CON was in "the mid-20's". Whether that was due to items or not was left unsaid. :smallwink:

[FatJose]

V isn't 10 levels weaker. Assuming that V is 14th level (which many people do) and that Xykon has an ECL of at least 30 (as noted in my previous post), the disparity is 16 or more levels. Unless V spends a lot of time on optimization boards attempting to become the new incarnation of PunPun, V could not have won with anything less than a lucky shot on a save or die effect.

I meant, Xykon being 10 levels lower. With the splices V was a higher level than Xykon right? Or did he just get their spells?

[DSCrankshaw]

Assuming a 24 con
Unlikely. As a human, the max ability he started with could be 18, and even if he put every single upgrade into CON (not the best thing to do with your ability points when you're a Fighter/Paladin), he'd have 21 at level 12, or 22 at level 16. The only way he could get it would be by shelling out 55,000 gp for a Manual of Bodily Health +2. And I don't think even O-Chul is that obsessed about buffing his bod.
Rich has said in "War and XPs" that O'Chul has a Con in the mid-20s. He didn't explain how.


I meant, Xykon being 10 levels lower. With the splices V was a higher level than Xykon right? Or did he just get their spells?
It's never fully explained, but it doesn't seem that V's non-spellcasting abilities increased at all, thus the non-epic concentration checks. Some people think that he was casting spells at the sum of their caster levels, but I don't think that makes any sense. I think it was much closer to a gestalt, and he simply cast the spell as if the soul which owned the spell was casting it, which was how it was illustrated in comic. Thus, anytime he cast his own spells, he was casting them as a 14th level wizard, nothing more.

[Porthos]

As for the actual comic, nice to see that the "The IFCC can take over V while he is still alive" theory is getting an All But Confirmed status*.

Now we just have to wait (possibly for a long time) for the other shoe to drop. :smallamused:

* Or, at the very least, that the whole point of the deal was so that they can use V to their ends at some point in the future.

And I think that we have a pretty good idea what (in general terms at least) that point is going to be. :smallwink:

[Antacid]

NOOOOO!! JIRIX!!!

Hope Redcloak thinks it's worth raising you.

Also, V needs to go jump out of the large hole in the wall he made with chain lightning and cast Feather Fall when he's halfway down.



It's never fully explained, but it doesn't seem that V's non-spellcasting abilities increased at all, thus the non-epic concentration checks. Some people think that he was casting spells at the sum of their caster levels, but I don't think that makes any sense.

Was there ever a REASON why we didn't think that made sense? Because the casual use of Disjunction was a pretty credible indicator to the contrary. "Caster Level" is just a single stat, it could have been that he cast spells at the total splice level but didn't get any concentration check bonuses.

[Hardcore]

RB owned over half the community with the line: "I can't believe I was rooting for a paladin for a moment there. I feel dirty."
and he gets away with!:smallbiggrin:
Gj

As for the coming strips I think MitD could surprise you all...

[SoC175]

Which is why the imp would need an excuse to just happen to be opening doors at that place and time.
X: Who the hell are you?
I: Me? But I am your familar!
X: Familiar? I don't have a frickin familiar!
I: Yes, you do. What else would I do here instead of hell?
X: I have a familar! Can't wait to show Redcloak

[Wolf_In_Exile]

Aww he's abandoning a soldier of Azure city while invisible AGAIN!?

V, I used to think you were cool

[Adeen]

No X's in O-Chul's eyes yet, I hope he's alive! Go Pally Go!

I hope V attacks the phylactery and/or saves O-Chul. (also, can cast fly and go out through the hole in the wall, don't need to take the stairs)

Where the f--- did Redcloak set his word of recall to?

Why hasn't Roy taken a peek at this battle yet?

And the most important question of all:

WHY hasn't MITD saved Mr. Stiffly yet?!?!?!!?!?

All in all, these are the awesome climactic moments I read this comic for! Good job Giant!

[SoC175]

It was his dump stat when he was a fighter, doesn't mean he didn't buy it up as a paladin :)
Since you can only buy 1 point every 4th level in 3.x O-Chul shouldn't have been able to buy more then just barely enough to get out of the negative modifier (assuming he started with 8 as dumb stat value and is level 13 putting all increases into it he now as a bonus of +0 for 11 Cha)

[Estelindis]

Man, I hope O-Chul didn't die off-panel. :smalleek: We don't see X's in his eyes, but then we're looking at the fiends for a few panels... I really hope O-Chul survives!

Is it bad that I'm more alarmed about O-Chul than I am about V? I feel pretty sorry for Jirix too, and he's had way less screen time than V...

Incidentally, good job on the abjurations, Xykon. Charisma may be your main stat rather than Intelligence, but your healthy self-interest makes you smart all the same.

[Silverain]

Wow, O-chul's tough. He got the usual daily torture, Disintegrate, and Meteor Swarm, and he was still standing. I think he's still not quite dead yet from that Lightning, either. (He *better* not be dead. He's too badass to die.) Evidently those Fighter levels of his bought a lot of hit points!

Now would be a really good time for a miracle.

Wonder if the imp has to go rescue V now ...

[Duxus]

Go Rich!
Go O-Chul!


Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Xykon will kill O-Chul, at least not now. If Team Evil wanted O-Chul dead, they would have killed him long time ago. But they hold him prisoner, for a reason. Of course, both Redcloack and Jirix know that O-Chul is a liability, and would kill him straight right now. But Redcloack is gone and Jirix is dead. And for Xykon, O-Chul is still a potentially valuable source of information that must be kept alive and in prison for torture.
My thoughts exactly!

Wow, a wizard (who isn't even Good) not reaching the level of self-sacrifice of a high level paladin? Who'd have thought?
Seriously... there are old wizards and bold wizards, but very few old, bold wizards. When you have 1d4 HP per level you tend to become a master of the strategic withdrawal. And to be fair, heroic sacrifices look great in stories but running away, regaining spells, and trying again later does have a better chance of actually working.
This makes great sense, but there is no sense in "hope"! =)

C'mon V! You're invisible again, and you have to choose between your survival and helping O-Chul... just like the fall of Azure City. You can redeem yourself! I know you can do it! COME ON V!!!1!
Go V!

So *THAT'S* what happens when the unstoppable force(Xykon) meets the immovable object(O-Chul). I've always wondered. Thanks Rich!
Oh no! Chuck Norris died?

[Adeen]

So *THAT'S* what happens when the unstoppable force(Xykon) meets the immovable object(O-Chul). I've always wondered. Thanks Rich!

Very wise insight!

[Elder Wraith]

Oh wow. I wonder if O-chul's gonna die?

The giant wouldn't dare...:smallfurious:

oh, wait a minute, I forgot what he did to Roy...:smallbiggrin:

[Swordster]

Perhaps V will jump out the window and have a feather fall prepared?

If V DOESN'T have feather fall prepared, she's a failure as a wizard. Death by falling damage is completely unacceptable for a wizard.


X: Who the hell are you?
I: Me? But I am your familar!
X: Familiar? I don't have a frickin familiar!
I: Yes, you do. What else would I do here instead of hell?
X: I have a familar! Can't wait to show Redcloak

While he did conduct a job interview in the middle of a battle, I feel like Xykon might know that he didn't have a familiar. He's actually pretty canny when he chooses to show it.

That said, this dialogue is totally in character and would be amazing it it happened.

[Estelindis]

I wonder how many more strips this "book" will contain. It's past the 180 strip threshold now, but War and XPs exceeded that by four strips. I can't see all the main threads running through the current arc being resolved in the next couple of strips... But, then again, if there's anything Rich has demonstrated in the last thirty (or so) strips, it's an ability to resolve plot threads swiftly and still in a very satisfying and awesome way. Let's see what happens!

[Secris]

Open the door, wait a second, and then close it loudly, but don't go through it. That's what I would do.

[Deliverance]

Couldn't V just turn ethereal and walk through the door?
No. Having the appropriate spell for an unlikely occasion memorized is primarily a villain ability in OOTS. Heroes, however, are better at having joke-worthy spells memorized than villains and are better at being saved by pure circumstance.

Think of it like this: If it was Xykon standing invisibly outside a closed door completely overmatched, there would be a reasonable chance that one of his few spells known would be ethereal jaunt (heck, he's spent one of his 'spell's known' on "Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage"). He'd cast this spell and make his getaway. A hero, on the other hand, is more likely to be saved by a convenient mook opening the door or a hole in the wall being blasted.

It probably ties into the reason that none of the mages or sorcerers in OOTS cast 2nd level spells like Mirror Image: It might look silly in the graphics and it would make them so much stronger. Take V's recent attack - are we to believe that non of the two evil epic mages knew Mirror Image? ...or are we to believe that it would be plot inconvenient if Xykon had been given more than one target to target? Take all the other arcane casters - why does nobody ever cast Mirror Image? [Bonus points to anybody who finds a counter example] :)

[Ted The Bug]

Wait...is Xykon done with O-Chul, now that he's looking for V?

[factotum]

:smallsigh: If they could take over V while she's alive, wouldn't they want to do it, oh I don't know, now? To make sure she got away? They specifically said they can only act directly when making a deal.

Exactly how would calling in their debt NOW save V? Doing that wouldn't count as making a deal, so they'd be left with the powers and stats of a somewhat battered 13th/14th level wizard...might as well leave it to V to use those powers since he has some experience of them and might have an idea what to do next!

[Scarlet Knight]

Wow, a wizard (who isn't even Good) not reaching the level of self-sacrifice of a high level paladin? Who'd have thought? :smallyuk:

Seriously... there are old wizards and bold wizards, but very few old, bold wizards. When you have 1d4 HP per level you tend to become a master of the strategic withdrawal. And to be fair, heroic sacrifices look great in stories but running away, regaining spells, and trying again later does have a better chance of actually working.

Yeah, but at least O-Chul sleeps at night...

[Omegonthesane]

Not likely. During this battle, Xykon has used a Maximized Energy Drain (www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html) and a Superb Dispelling (www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html).

The first spell requires a 12th level spell slot, which means that Xykon must have taken Improved Spell Capacity [Epic] three times. The second spell requires taking the Epic Spellcasting [Epic] feat. That equals four epic feats.

Both feats require you to be able to cast spells of your maximum level (9th for a sorcerer) and be of epic level. Since, in Start of Darkenss, Xykon cast the 9th level Soul Bind spell shortly after becoming a lich, he must have already been 18th level or above at that point. That means that his first opportunity to attain an epic level feat would have been at 21st level. He would have then gained additional epic feats at levels 23 (class), 24 (standard progression) and 26 (class). Adding in his level adjustment for being a lich means that Xykon must have an ECL of at least 30 (and given the DC 59 Spellcraft requirement to develop Superb Dispelling, he may even be of higher level).

V may have been spliced to two epic spellcasters at the time (since the necromancer had already escaped), but this only granted access to a bunch of additional spells, not to an increase in hit points, attack bonus, saving throws, skill levels, etcetera. V was never more than a fragile egg wielding a gun.

Or Xykon's crown functions as a Greater Rod of Maximize Spell, requiring him to only have one Epic feat. Or there's Sudden Maximize, which apparently is in a Core book that isn't SRD.

[liooil2000]

Way to go Giant! Once again you went where no one expected AND rocked the house!:biggrin:
.
I wonder if that closed door has any meaning...
(looks at phylactery)
.
.
Does V have a dispel charm or magic prepared?
.
.
Wow O-chul has high HP...

[Prak]

Yeah this confirms that the fiends don't give a crap about V's soul or the splice.

it also implies they don't want the Snarl unleashed.
"I can't believe I was rooting for a paladin for a moment there. I feel dirty."

I agree...

[Katuko]

Open the door, wait a second, and then close it loudly, but don't go through it. That's what I would do.
And while you are in the process of opening it, Xykon notices and fires off another Meteor Swarm or Lightning Bolt. And with apparently very little HP left, that would mean death.
V would be better off opening the door with Mage Hand or using Fly to get out through the destroyed wall, as was suggested earlier.

[Woodsman]

Wow O-chul has high HP...

Already evidenced (http://www.GiantITP.com/comics/oots0542.html)

[Porthos]

I wonder how many more strips this "book" will contain. It's past the 180 strip threshold now, but War and XPs exceeded that by four strips. I can't see all the main threads running through the current arc being resolved in the next couple of strips... But, then again, if there's anything Rich has demonstrated in the last thirty (or so) strips, it's an ability to resolve plot threads swiftly and still in a very satisfying and awesome way. Let's see what happens!

Well, actually, we're just past strip 170, not 180 (485-656: 172 strips). :smalltongue: But I think that the 180 strip threshold isn't nearly as huge as the total number of pages, since that (along with bonuses like commentary, chapter splash pages, extra strips, et etc) is what determines the book size (and thus the final cost of said book). All of those double/triple/half-again-as-large strips add up after a while. :smallwink:

For comparison sakes:

Dungeon Crawlin' Fools:
Number of comic strips: 121
Number of online "pages": 122.5
Pages in actual book: 160

No Cure for the Paladin Blues:
Number of comic strips: 180
Number of online "pages": 197
Pages in actual book: 244

War and XPs:
Number of comic strips: 183
Number of online "pages": 242* (!!!)
Pages in actual book: 288

Book Four:
Number of comic strips so far: 172
Number of online "pages" so far**: 208 and counting
Pages in actual book: Who knows. :smalltongue: But add around 30-40 or so as a guesstimate.

So we have a few more strips to go before Rich has to deliver another behemoth sized book like WaXP. :smalltongue:


* Some adjustments were made with some of the online strips. For instance Comic #443 was adjusted to fit on two pages (with part of #442 included) while part of Comic #430 was made into a two page spreadout

** This is my best guess, after stiching various half-page strips together to form a single page. It may be off by a page or two when the final book comes out.

[Antacid]

It probably ties into the reason that none of the mages or sorcerers in OOTS cast 2nd level spells like Mirror Image: It might look silly in the graphics and it would make them so much stronger.

The same reason there are also no strips where characters abuse polymorph, or summon monsters for inifinite wishes: for something to be worth satirising, it has to be less than utterly lame to begin with.

(Oh Lord, I thank thee for 4th edition...)

[Silverraptor]

I knew breaking the phlactery wouldn't have been that easy. At least V got away, mostly.

[Estelindis]

Well, actually, we're just past strip 170, not 180 (485-656: 172 strips). :smalltongue:
Apologies. I must be losing my mind! :smallredface:

Incidentally, you make a good point that there don't seem to be as many multi-strip pages in this volume. (War and XPs is gi-normous!)

[Porthos]

Apologies. I must be losing my mind! :smallredface:

I'd just chalk it up to the trauma of seeing O-Chul get beaten to a bloody pulp. :smalltongue:

Besides, if I had a dollar (or pound, or euro, or whatever) for everytime I slipped up on something as minor as that... Well, I'd be richer than I am right now.

So you have good company Estelindis. :smallbiggrin:


Incidentally, you make a good point that there don't seem to be as many multi-strip pages in this volume. (War and XPs is gi-normous!)

It was, wasn't it. Something about "the tale grew in the telling" comes to mind. :smallamused: On the other hand, this new book is still way ahead of the pace that NCftPB set (17 extra pages for NCftPB versus 35 and counting this one). And if it takes about 15-20 strips to wind up this book, this latest one might give WaXP a run for it's money after all. :smallcool:

[malakim2099]

it also implies they don't want the Snarl unleashed.
"I can't believe I was rooting for a paladin for a moment there. I feel dirty."

I agree...

Well, I still think the fiends want the Snarl unleashed, on their own terms. Like in the Celestial Realms*. And they apparently need V alive to do it.


* From SOD:
The Plan Redcloak is using will have the Gate shifted to the Celestial Realms to blackmail the other pantheons to giving NPC races a fair shake. Of course, the IFCC probably just wants the Gate shifted and opened so all the deities are slaughtered. Since an arcane caster and divine caster are needed to do the ritual, V is the obvious candidate for the task on behalf of the IFCC.

[fractal]

So, O-Chul is at least level 16; clearly those ridiculous deathtraps were good for his health. I don't believe that Xykon has killed him off-panel, although that does nothing to guarantee his safety in the next strip or two.

If he does die, V. should try to grab a piece of him for Resurrection.

As has been noted, Panel 10 was drawn backwards. Hopefully Rich will correct it (probably just by reversing the colors of the speech bubbles).

[Griever3216]

O-Chul: Even fiends root for him when he really gets going.

QFT.

This strip shoots down some theories (or at least makes them more probable/improbable).

-V will get alive out of it (not sure yet, but it seems this way) as the fiends need him alive for their end of the deal.
-The phylactery will not be destroyed half-way through in the story to make Xykon be more considerate about his existence. He has already shown that he can be careful when he needs to be, even though he had had a bit more than reasonable confidence when he had entered the throne room.



This situation may be the beginning of V's redemption, but it is difficult to intervene and make it out safe. O-Chul sacrificed himself to help V escape and it would make little sense to do the exact opposite right now, considering V is more important to the plot than O-Chul.
Considering that Xykon is already looking for V, it can be safely assumed he has dealt with O-Chul (either paralysed him or put him in negative HP), so V may consider O-Chul a lost cause and will just flee anyway. In which case, someone may open the door for him, or he will just opt for the hole in the wall.

With the recent turn of events, it seems O-Chul will not be escaping after all. I assume Xykon kept him alive because he thinks he is still valuable. The only hope we have for something good happening to him is for the MITD to intervene. Considering this book will finish soon, the Team Evil will have to set off for the next gate, which means O-Chul will be useless to them. I doubt he will remain in captivity so the same sequence of events happens again. I think this is his time to shine and it is very probable there will be a conclusion to his fate by the end of this book. With the way he was shown in the story, it would be fitting for him to endure all this torture and in the end to have a heroic death in the heat of the battle. It would not all be for nothing, as he injured Redcloak and V now knows about the importance of the phylactery.

Redcloak may pop in the time time angry and just disintegrate him. Not an epic way to die, but he has had a fair amount of glory already.


I also noticed that V is standing very close to Xykon as seen from Jirix's body when Xykon cast the lightning bolt.

[Logalmier]

Gasp, does this... does this mean that O-Chul is... no, I can't say it.

I will say this however: Inconceivable!

The Giant isn't the only one that can make The Princess Bride references.:smallwink:

[Shadowbane]

V!!! This is your opportunity! Take it! :O

[Aerysil]

I'm surprised Xykon doesn't have permanent True Seeing up... or does he...

And if he's done with O-Chul, does that mean O-Chul.. is... :smallfrown:

[TheNovak]

Ha, it worked! I wore my O-Chul shirt again today, and bam, update! There's one for the O-Chul Facts list.

Another fact is that a Meteor Swarm and Maximized Lightning Bolt can really screw up your day.

[Shadowbane]

Apparently, they cannot kill him though. Man, he's tough. I have to say, I really, REALLY don't want him to die.

[Doug Lampert]

Can somebody enlighten me just why the whole soul splice affair would be a huge waste of time if V should die here?

The fiends allegedly did it to prove that it is possible for the three evil alignments to work together sufficiently to bestow such power on a mortal./QUOTE]
That's what they alleged, you got that right.

They're fiends. They lie.

Qarr noticed this, that they had extensive and particular info on V, which would not have been true had there been any truth to their claims about only needing a demo.

They're after a gate.

[QUOTE=snafu;6158608]is there anything in the rules about how loudly you have to say the magic words? Can V whisper, very very quietly, her way through a flight or feather fall spell? If so, then she can still bravely Sir Robin her way out of trouble.
Yes there is. Magic words have to be said in a clear, loud voice. That and a level 2 cleric spell are why silent spell is worth a feat and a one level metamagic adjustment.

[teratorn]

Apologies. I must be losing my mind! :smallredface:

If O-chul's eventual demise thus affected your cognitive skills, what would happen if something bad happened to Hinjo?

I've been trying to tie this to the convoluted "belkar is responsible for character X death..." stuff the oracle said when he tried to weasel his way out of his own death, but without much luck. V can't die unless we somehow tie it to Belkar's actions.

[Selene]

I don't think intervention by a fiend here would tip Vaar off to anything. Vaar already knows what he/she agreed to, and it's only logical that the fiends would want him/her to remain alive to protect their investment.

But he's under the apparently mistaken impression that they can only collect after his death.


Why hasn't Roy taken a peek at this battle yet?

Perhaps he's busy being resurrected?


Is it bad that I'm more alarmed about O-Chul than I am about V?

Don't know, but I am, too. V is more likely to get resurrected.


If O-chul's eventual demise thus affected your cognitive skills, what would happen if something bad happened to Hinjo?

O-Chul > Hinjo. By a LOT.

[veti]

Can V whisper, very very quietly, her way through a flight or feather fall spell? If so, then she can still bravely Sir Robin her way out of trouble.

Doesn't need to. The correct procedure is for her to take a running jump out through the big hole in the wall and cast Feather Fall on the way down, as loudly as she likes. By then she's like 5 storeys below Xykon, and even if he hears, he'll need epic-level Initiative feats to react in time to stop her reaching the ground safely.

She could, of course, try to grab O on the way out, but in her position I wouldn't. We know she has a strength penalty, she's very low on hit points and probably scared s**tless at this point. My guess is that this is the point in V's character development where she realises that 'ultimate arcane power' isn't all it's cracked up to be, and to achieve anything worthwhile she actually needs the rest of the team about her.

[David Argall]

Can somebody enlighten me just why the whole soul splice affair would be a huge waste of time if V should die here?

The fiends allegedly did it to prove that it is possible for the three evil alignments to work together sufficiently to bestow such power on a mortal. They did.
This was their cover story. As with any cover story, it may or may not be true, but it is not why the fiends offered V the splice. It, and V's soul, may be consolation prizes, but when push comes to shove, the fiends don't care if they get them or not. Their eye is on the big prize, control of the gate. Their exact plan is uncertain, but likely something along the lines of ...party beats Xykon and company and just as they start to celebrate, they take over V and cast something like mass disintegrate. They make a deal with Redcloak to pervert the gate and carry out the magic. Of course...
SoD There is no reason to think they know Redcloak's secret, that the perversion of the gate does not allow the casters to control the gate or the Snarl. The Dark One gets that ability, in a limited degree. So the fiends are apt to be disappointed with their success when they find out.



Couldn't V just turn ethereal and walk through the door?

Ethereal Jaunt is a 7th level spell, which is apparently the highest level V can cast, which means she likely does not know the spell, and is even less likely to have it memorized.



Now that the phylactery has been blasted by lightning, it will break easily.
Our writer doesn't like to reuse things, so a weakness to lightning is unlikely here.



Disintegrate: Save likely made 5d6. Average 18

Meteor swarm: 4 spheres X ( 2d6 bludgeoning + 6d6 fire) =32 d6 = 112
No save when you get whacked by the ranged touch attack.


Maximized lightning bolt= 60 damage.

Total: 190

Assuming a 24 con, average HP/level and improved toughness

13.5 hp per level 18 points at level 1

He'd have 180 points at level 13. Enough to be alive but not up unless there was less than average damage or more than average HP, both of which are always possible.
The evidence seems to be that O-Chul is out of action, but there is a save vs the lightning and while we see that at least two of the meteors hit, 4 rolls of a d20 do have a significant chance of rolling a one. Add in that O-Chul has been shown from the first to have massive hps, and his survival [in bad shape] is no affront to either the rules nor the story.
It would be the minority reading, but O-Chul could be in positive single digits and Xykon merely ignored him and picked up the holy symbol and is now turning back to the elf, who might have the ability to escape.

[teratorn]

O-Chul > Hinjo. By a LOT.

Well, but you aren't first mate on Hinjo's junk... I was just looking at the order in Estelindis signature.

[Theogon]

Xykon is best villain ever. he's smart and has a sense of humour

[Beren]

I don't think Xykon is going to let O-Chul survive. He hasn't been keeping him around for any reason besides entertainment. Redcloak was the one that wanted O-Chul alive, ostensibly for the possibility of getting more information, but his real reason was to keep Xykon from moving on before the hobgoblins were self-supporting in that region.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0548.html

It may be that O-Chul will be rescued in one way or another, but if it comes down to just Xykon and a helpless O-Chul, I don't expect O-Chul to be put back in his cage. Even if Redcloak came back, I don't think he'd be so eager to spare him this time, given the nice little eye-poke he just got from him.

[Drammel]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Vaarsuvius casts anything (including Feather Fall) won't that break the invisibility spell and set Xykon right back on him? :smallconfused: I genuinely cannot remember what the rules are on that at the moment. However, I'm going to go out on a limb and I'll say that Xykon is smart enough to look out the big hole to see if Vaarsuvius jumped out.

On another note, while opening the door would be a dead giveaway, picking up the phylactery wouldn't. There's nothing in this strip to indicate that Xykon did in fact grab it. Then again there's nothing to indicate he didn't. Depends entirely on what would happen in the heat of the moment.

Time for some wild theories and speculation!



I'm going to go with Vaarsuvius grabs the phylactery, somehow manages to survive this ordeal, and reunites with the Order of the Stick. It would have been impractical to destroy the phylactery to begin with (as Xykon could eventually make another), but now that we know it's protected by a spell of "Protection vs Everything but the Kitchen Sink" it's reasonable to assume the thing can't be destroyed until after a side quest or a critical plot point.

Sometime between now and future plot the IFCC contacts Sabine and has her (and by proxy the Linear Guild) steal the phylactery for them. The three fiends would then be in posession of Xykon's soul. There's got to be some sort of torture voodoo they could use on a soul, isn't that part of their job description? The point of tempting Vaarsuvius at the exact time and place they did was so that they could eventually gain possession of the phylactery. Imagine all the fun they could wreak on the mortal plane with a leash on Xykon.

[Cybaster]

Then again, if Xykon had the Lifesight feat from Libris Mortis, everything would pretty much be a moot point.

[Rev. George]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Vaarsuvius casts anything (including Feather Fall) won't that break the invisibility spell and set Xykon right back on him?

Not according to the SRD...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Invisibility.htm

Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as stepping in a puddle). The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.) Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area.

-+G

[BlueWizard]

Killing off a major supporting character is always huge. But, evil love to raise dead.

[Scapegoat]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but panels 5-7 appear to be O-Chuls round of combat between Xykon casting Meteor Swarm and the Max-LB. In that time he makes 4 attacks. Which if I am not mistaken (been awhile since I played 3.5) would make him at least 16th level.

Now it could be just a pause on Xykon's part between attacks allowing O-Chul to get 2 rounds of attacks. Just seems unlikely in how quick he is was to react after Jirix screamed out his name.

I am probably wrong however.

EDIT: Finished the thread and it has been mentioned.

[gamephil]

Since you can only buy 1 point every 4th level in 3.x O-Chul shouldn't have been able to buy more then just barely enough to get out of the negative modifier (assuming he started with 8 as dumb stat value and is level 13 putting all increases into it he now as a bonus of +0 for 11 Cha)

I'm sorry, I wasn't really expecting anyone to take my quip seriously enough to put that much thought into a rebuttal. Since we have yet to see him cast spells or Lay on Hands (I think), I'm perfectly happy assuming that he would have an 8-11 Charisma if the strip were really using the rules for anything other than making funny.

However, I place him at 20, rules be hanged, simply because I find him that likeable.

[Lowkey]

I've been trying to tie this to the convoluted "belkar is responsible for character X death..." stuff the oracle said when he tried to weasel his way out of his own death, but without much luck. V can't die unless we somehow tie it to Belkar's actions.

Belkar left O'Chul behind while grabbing Roy's corpse. Thus Xkyon & Co had him. Thus he was present when V's magic was insufficient, reminding V of his past action at the battle. Thus V didn't run. Thus V died.

[MReav]

Post in spoilers:

C'mon V, Magehand/Telekinesis the Phylactery into the giant rift!

[Islander]

.. if Vaarsuvius casts anything (including Feather Fall) won't that break the invisibility spell...
Maybe this is a moot point. Invisibility kinda has a history of being the very last spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html) left at the bottom of V's barrel.

Now that *he's tasted ultimate power, it is time for V to retire and take a few levels in barding.

If Redcloak has Word of Recall'ed himself a far distance away from the city, he may have to take the long way back to join up with Xykon. Is it Redcloak's magic that happens to be responsible for maintaining the structural integrity of the funky green tower?

[Calamity]

Maybe this is a moot point. Invisibility kinda has a history of being the very last spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0452.html) left at the bottom of V's barrel.

Except this time around, even if s/he have any spells left, there's no way s/he'd stand a chance against Xykon and the rest of Team Evil now that the splices are gone, so regardless of how many spells V had left, Invisibility was the best option.

[Rai Thunder]

S'prolly been mentioned, but...

Is it me or does this look like a ironic reference to the recurring "nightmare" that V's been having, invisibility and all? :smallamused:

[Estelindis]

If O-chul's eventual demise thus affected your cognitive skills, what would happen if something bad happened to Hinjo?
Actually, it's strange, but for someone who's not as tough as O-Chul in the least, Hinjo's had his fair share of brushes with death. Quite a few of them seemed to stem from... how does Erfworld put it... being pretty reckless with his statuesque keister (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0071.html). :smallwink: So I'm not entirely unprepared for Hinjo's death, though naturally I hope he survives the comic. I'd be very interested to see how his character evolves.



O-Chul > Hinjo. By a LOT.
Hinjo's an awesome character, and our first paladin-contrast with Miko (I don't know how it could be any clearer than the comic title of his first appearance). But O-Chul gives us a deeper contrast with Miko in many ways. Hinjo's still quite young and trying to do the right thing, no matter what the cost to himself. In her own way, the same was true of Miko. An amount of ego came into play with both of them - except that, where Hinjo was willing to accept criticism and realise that his people needed him more than he needed to throw his life away in some heroic sacrifice, Miko never learned that. At the very end, it was all about her great destiny - at the cost of the true good of her people. But what really separates O-Chul from all the others paladins is his total humility. He seems to have learned his lessons a long time ago. His composure and serenity are just amazing. What I wouldn't give to be able to write a character like that, without making him come across as self-righteous, pretentious, or out of touch! Rich conveys his character perfectly.


Well, but you aren't first mate on Hinjo's junk... I was just looking at the order in Estelindis signature.
:smallredface: :smallsigh: :smallbiggrin:
Yeah, you got me there. Hinjo's been my favourite character since he confronted Miko in the throne room. :smallwink:

Mind you, O-Chul is really in a category of his own and can't be compared with any of the rest of the characters, no matter how awesome they are. "Favourite" just isn't enough to describe him! And the lack of O-Chul related material in my sig, barring fan club title, is partially a result of having run out of space. :smallamused:

[Nightfall]

V could always take a running leap out of the hole in the wall and fly away. Or seeing as Xykon might expect that, create an illusion and have it fly out the hole in the wall to lead him off. Or he could open the door with Open/Close while standing far away and cast ghost sound to make it seem like someone invisible was running down the stairs and THEN fly out the hole.

Or he could try a spell effective at stopping undead and hope the roll goes incredibly well.

You're under the assumption that V has been thinking. Thinking about an escape route if s/he didn't kill Xykon. Since V never believed s/he wouldn't be victorious, an escape plan never came to fruition. V never planned anything except going in, killing the lich and winning. Everything that happened since Step One has thrown him/her off his/her game, and V doesn't improvise very well.

Granted, V's desperate right now, and will be looking for any escape route available, so going out the hole (only if s/he still has any Fly or Feather Fall spells left) would be the most logical option. But let's just wait and see what happens. My money's still on MitD doing something really unexpected (for Xykon, at least).

[Wadoka]

Perhaps V will jump out the window and have a feather fall prepared?

I think that only works if your name is Fizban.

"PFVEATHR-!"

O-Chul can be the toughest of the tough just because he's a Paladin, cannae he no?

Last D&D I played was 2nd Edition, Paladins got an automatic +2 to everything ST-wise, and it was a huge, huge advantage. I remember PvP on the old AOL version of "Neverwinter Nights" (based on the old TSR "Gold Box" engine), playing a Paladin, and nothing would stick. Paladins were teflon-coated in 2nd Edition!

[Elemental_Elf]

I think that only works if your name is Fizban.

"PFVEATHR-!"

O-Chul can be the toughest of the tough just because he's a Paladin, cannae he no?

Last D&D I played was 2nd Edition, Paladins got an automatic +2 to everything ST-wise, and it was a huge, huge advantage. I remember PvP on the old AOL version of "Neverwinter Nights" (based on the old TSR "Gold Box" engine), playing a Paladin, and nothing would stick. Paladins were teflon-coated in 2nd Edition!

Too bad OOTS is based on 3rd edition where Pallys are just fighters with out bonus feats, a few meh abilities, Smite Evil, Summon Horses and have MAD problems... :smalleek:

[kakita]

Did anyone else notice that V was referred to as she? Although one could argue that the imp is just making a judgement (which could be wrong).

[rewinn]

While I realize now that "It Probably Squeaks, Too" refers to the door, at first I thought it referred to the phylactery.

Who but Xykon would have a phylactery made of rubber or some other flexible substance (?silly putty? - anything basically immune to crushing) and, if so, would he resist adding a rubber-ducky squeaker to it?

[Lerky]

HA HA! O-Chuls face in the first panel. It's like "What the fudge?":smallbiggrin:

[glissle]

Another note on invisibility and spellcasting: liches have a huge +8 racial bonus to Listen checks (also Spot, Sense Motive and Search - don't try to fool one).

[Kornaki]

Another note on invisibility and spellcasting: liches have a huge +8 racial bonus to Listen checks (also Spot, Sense Motive and Search - don't try to fool one).

That didn't help redcloak that much. I can only assume Xykon's got about a 2 for wisdom

[Lowkey]

V's best escape option isn't feather fall anyways. Open the door, count to 3, slam the door shut. Xkyon races out the door "after" him, follow undead abomination down the stairs staying behind him, walk out the front gates.

But I don't see that happening. It will be something else we haven't come up with yet.

[Hurkyl]

If it was Xykon standing invisibly outside a closed door completely overmatched, there would be a reasonable chance that one of his few spells known would be ethereal jaunt (heck, he's spent one of his 'spell's known' on "Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage"). He'd cast this spell and make his getaway.
A bad example, unfortunately, because we already know for certain that Xykon knows a spell for the occasion -- ghostform.

[The MunchKING]

Finally! Wonderful. :) I guess that if the phylactery is going down now, the only way to destroy it would be tossing it into the rift. For which V and O-Chul would need to cooperate, of course. And it seems Xykon is "done" with O-Chul, so it is now up to the MitD to intervene to ensure his friend's "escapes and lives happily ever after" ending. :)

Does Disjunction "kill" Liches and other creatures that rely on Magic flowing through their "bodies" to "live"??

Or at least it should blow the hell (literally) out of the Phylactery.

[The MunchKING]

Coated in acid, with a bucket of unholy water waiting right above. And pit fiend venom, lots and lots of pit fiend venom!

That sounds more like XYKON's idea of a trap, especially so he can laugh at any newbie Hobgoblins who accidently set it off looking for the stairs.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Aww he's abandoning a soldier of Azure city while invisible AGAIN!?

V, I used to think you were cool

Although to be fair to V in the first case there was really nothing she could do to help. And the same seems to be true in this case.

And O-Chul is different, he certainly wouldn't curse V for escaping. He went out their to die in all likelihood. So in both case V has the choice of being brave but ineffectual and likely dead, or... well, not.

Still it will probably break her mighty neutral heart (or brain) to do it again.


Belkar left O'Chul behind while grabbing Roy's corpse. Thus Xkyon & Co had him. Thus he was present when V's magic was insufficient, reminding V of his past action at the battle. Thus V didn't run. Thus V died.

Alternatively Belkar leaving behind O-Chul allowed Redcloak to later use him as the reason for Team Evil staying in Azure City for so long, with the ongoing Cloister that drove V to such a state...

Hehe, it is a lot of fun.

[factotum]

I suspect O-Chul is out for the count for Xykon to think he can spend time chasing V, but we'll see.

I wonder if this book is going to end on the same sort of "Where are all our characters?" splash page we got at the end of War and XPs? It's difficult to see how V can rejoin the Order quickly, considering they're on another continent and he doesn't have Teleport, and I'm with those who think we're likely to see a solo adventure for Redcloak in the next book, so when V escapes this situation (or gets imprisoned, whichever happens first) it would probably be a reasonable sort of time to have such a page.

[Dagren]

She's got a bit of time before Xykon finishes killing the paladin... is there anything in the rules about how loudly you have to say the magic words? Can V whisper, very very quietly, her way through a flight or feather fall spell? If so, then she can still bravely Sir Robin her way out of trouble.No need. Just step out and cast feather fall half way down. No way Xykon is going to hear that.

This story arc is basically The Empire Strikes Back. It must end with a resounding victory by Team Evil. And then the Jedi will Strike Back in the next book.I thought that was the last book? With the siege and all? Team Evil has already had a major victory.

[Iranon]

...and we're back at step 452.

The last time V snuck away invisibly and left his allies behind, it resulted in a rather impressive breakdown (calm enough that nobody even noticed for a long time).
Arcane power failing to overpower the opponent can't be all - for example, V's ego did not seem to take any lasting damage from the beating handed out by Leeky & friends and needing to be bailed out by Durkon (with divine fudging), or the Caputt-ex-Machina* save from the death knight.

I'm very curious if V has learned a lesson since then, and if yes what it was (I don't see anything wrong with retreating if the alternative is dying in ineffectual heroics; blaming a caster low on spell slots for retreating is like blaming a fighter who lost a couple of limbs).

[Mars]

Can't see O-Chul dying. It would be near the same level of stupidity of killing off Optimus Prime.

[Evaine]

Awesome comic, as usual. I still think the MitD is going to step in and save O-Chul, but I'd be willing to bet that V is going to have to decide whether or not to act to get him out of there.

Just my bit of wild speculation again. However the Giant decides to do it, I'm sure it will be great. :smallsmile:

[ironballs]

I don't think they'll Kill O-Chul - after all, he's their favorite pet :)

however, even if V will escape the building - she's still stuck in Azura city - she can't teleport out - the anti teleport enchantment is still in it's place (or at least, it should be).

It was pretty obvious O-chul won't be able to break the amulet - even without protective spells - definitely not with an iron bar against Damage reduction 20.

great strip though! can't wait to see what comes next!

[factotum]

however, even if V will escape the building - she's still stuck in Azura city - she can't teleport out - the anti teleport enchantment is still in it's place (or at least, it should be).


Pretty sure it was stated that Cloister blocks INCOMING Teleports, not outgoing ones. However, it's a moot point anyway because V does not know Teleport and never HAS known Teleport...

[Nighthawk4]

That is SO funny. How to open the door without revealing where he/she is. :vaarsuvius:


Also, it would seem the Phylactery is tougher than it looked. :smallsmile:

[pendell]

Can't see O-Chul dying. It would be near the same level of stupidity of killing off Optimus Prime.

Think so? I think O-chul has had 'tragic hero who goes out in a blaze of glory' written on his brow since his last meeting with Hinjo.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Can't see O-Chul dying. It would be near the same level of stupidity of killing off Optimus Prime.

I don't know, they are a bit different. Optimus Prime was one of the main characters and the real leader figure, and his replacement couldn't hold a candle to him (sorry Rodimus). O-Chul is a great secondary character who seems determined to go out if necessary (nearly chopping the Gate Sapphire, now going after Team Evil near naked and almost unarmed)...

I'd be happy if O-Chul didn't die, or if his death was sufficiently worthy of a character of his stature. Death or freedom, I don't think he will be going back in his cage again.

Plus, there is the MitD factor.

[Antacid]

Xykon is best villain ever. he's smart and has a sense of humour

So what you mean is, I think Xykon is a pretty cool guy. eh meteors O'Chul and doesn't afraid of anything...

[Snowgods]

Do Evil Outsiders go to the toilet?, or is the John a mortal with common name?