How much damage has O-Chul taken?

[Olibarro]

Disintigrate -- assume he made his save... 5d6

Meteor Swarm -- we can see he was hit for sure by two of the balls: 16d6 (no save). If the other two also got him, that's another 16d6, but I can't see them for sure, and I also don't see streaks or fire to indicate they went somewhere else.

Maximized Lightning Bolt -- 60hp (or save for 30hp)

Grand Total: 51-282hp damage.

With average dice though, I get:
2 Meteors/2 Saves: 104hp
4 Meteors/2 Saves: 160hp
2 Meteors/1 Save: 134hp
4 Meteors/1 Save: 190hp

But other people are better at this than I am. Correct my math and assumptions.

[SPoD]

If you look closely, you can see the other two meteors in the back, behind the orange fire. And there are four yellow fire trails. He got hit with all four.

[Olibarro]

Well then that would put him at roughly 130-140 points damage. I've been assuming O-Chul is around 13th level (although that could be waaaaay off), which would mean he's one more spell away from death.

[Vargtass]

Well then that would put him at roughly 130-140 points damage. I've been assuming O-Chul is around 13th level (although that could be waaaaay off), which would mean he's one more spell away from death.

This makes sense, considering the look of him at his last appearance... and Xykon's disregard of him in the last panel.

[Zerg Cookie]

Assuming he only made the disintegrate save:
Disintegrate: 5d6 (~17.5 damage)
Meteor swarm: 32d6 (~112 damage)
Maximized lightning bolt: 60 damage
Total damage: ~189.5

O-Chul's con is in the mid 20's, let's assume 24 (+7 modifier)
So he has 13d10+91 (~151.5 hp)


He should be down

[SkredlitheOgre]

The question SHOULD be: How much O-chul has the DAMAGE taken?

[pcgneurotic]

The question SHOULD be: How much O-chul has the DAMAGE taken?

Now THAT is the question! :D

[eras10]

Assuming he only made the disintegrate save:
Disintegrate: 5d6 (~17.5 damage)
Meteor swarm: 32d6 (~112 damage)
Maximized lightning bolt: 60 damage
Total damage: ~189.5

O-Chul's con is in the mid 20's, let's assume 24 (+7 modifier)
So he has 13d10+91 (~151.5 hp)

Is the lightning bolt a Fort Save? Because those seem near-automatic for O-Chul. Otherwise, looks like Xykon rolled a crappy Meteor Swarm. Knock 30 off MS, give O-Chul another +1 on the modifier, and ta-da, he's alive.

Close enough.

[eras10]

You could argue that Xykon probably had something nastier in the deck to hit O-Chul with other than Maximized Lightning Bolt, which is of course rather predictable in damage output. Almost as if he, was, say, trying to knock O-Chul into negative HP so he could be kept alive (although X seems to be short on clerics with healing at the moment).

Yeah, that seems likely.

[Poppy Appletree]

The question SHOULD be: How much O-chul has the DAMAGE taken?

Brilliant. :smallbiggrin:

In response to the original question, I think the only answer we can truly be sure of is "a lot".

[Raenir Salazar]

reflex saves, i dont think fighters have good reflex saves.

[Volkov]

Xykon could kill O-chul with a ray of frost now. That would be hilarious, although anti-climactic.

[Deuce]

Assuming he only made the disintegrate save:
Disintegrate: 5d6 (~17.5 damage)
Meteor swarm: 32d6 (~112 damage)
Maximized lightning bolt: 60 damage
Total damage: ~189.5

O-Chul's con is in the mid 20's, let's assume 24 (+7 modifier)
So he has 13d10+91 (~151.5 hp)


He should be down

By the averages, yes, but we've been told that O-Chul is the toughest of the Sapphire Guard, that might mean more then a high CON, maybe he also has above average HP rolls. We can say for sure he has over 97 HP coming into this, but remember that the dice don't care much about averages in the short-term.

(edit)
Any feats in core that would let him regenerate (while unconscious?) He only needs to be >= 1 HP to do something useful.

[derfenrirwolv]

I got 190 as the same number in the thread.

O chul has full HP's at 1st level, that raises his total a bit

I also assumed improved toughness. At level 13, on average, he'd be at -10

[petersohn]

Anyway, both damage and O-Chul's HP does vary in a rather big range. So all we can say is that he is either dead (which I doubt) or very low on HP.

[Hydro Globus]

Maybe all O-chul's feats are Endurances. (For the non-D&D readers, it gives +3 HP, and is cumulative. O-chul has 1 feat for every third levels PLUS 1 feat for every second Fighter levels PLUS 3 more feats. equaling (in my estimation) 30 HP. In this case, he doesn't need insane luck with those d10s.)

[Zerg Cookie]

The question SHOULD be: How much O-chul has the DAMAGE taken?

You just won the thread! :smallbiggrin:

back on topic: O-Chul may be higher than level 13... And maybe he has some homebrewed toughness feats (I remember a non-core [Probably non-WotC, too] feat that adds like 10 HP and has toughness as a pre.)

[Tingel]

O-Chul's con is in the mid 20's, let's assume 24 (+7 modifier)
So he has 13d10+91 (~151.5 hp)


He should be down

Your math is truly magical. How is the average of 13d10+91 = 151.5?

The average of a d10 is 5.5, thus 13d10+91 equals 162.5 HP. And I could be mistaken, but I thought that at first level every character receives maximum hit points for his hit die type. If this is correct, then O-Chul's average HP using your assumptions (level 13, Con 24) would be 167.

[Aaron]

Based on how O-Chul looks in the panel where Xykon Hits him with Maximized Lightning Bolt, and how Xykon seems to disregard O-Chul in the last panel, I'd say O-Chul is is unconscious (some where between 0 and -10 hp).

[Olibarro]

Well, at times that Rich worries about ensuring that the rules are correct, his most interesting characters are always far from optimum builds (thus O-chul is a paladin with Charisma as his dump stat... how cool). Even if the assumption of 13th level is pretty close, I'd guess O-chul's hp are a bit above the average rolls. I'd guess he took a toughness feat in there somewhere, and I'm sure with Feats, stats, and levels his Fort and Will saves are impeccable. His Reflex save, prolly not so much.

Assume 18 damage from the Disintigrate. The full 60 from the lightning. And if he got lucky, maybe he took less than the 112 "average" damage from the meteors. Maybe he's actually 14th level (or more). Maybe he really does have a 22 or 24 or 26 for Con, instead of the 21 I was figuring. Maybe he beat the odds and made that Reflex save. Maybe Redcloak and Xykon rolled poorly for damage. The only real point is that X's didn't pop up in his eyes last time I saw him, therefore, he ain't dead yet. But no matter how you work the math, he's not too far from zero at this point.

[homeosapiens]

Look here http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0542.html and on 656.

O-chul is FAR from 0 hitpoints. You can say easyly by just looking on his damage scratches.

[misterk]

Heh, for those looking at average hit points for o-chul... he may well have above average, as others point out, and indeed, considering quite what he has managed to survive thus far, this doesn't seem that unlikely! Averages are fine for guess work, but it'd be ridiculous (and implausible) for order of the stick to be a world where everyone had average hit dice, and took and gave average damage at all times!

[Tundar]

I'm gonna jump the bandwagon claiming average HP is below O'Chul.

But I think only two meteors hit him. Look at the grey patches from where smoke arise. There are two.

[bladesyz]

Your math is truly magical. How is the average of 13d10+91 = 151.5?

The average of a d10 is 5.5, thus 13d10+91 equals 162.5 HP. And I could be mistaken, but I thought that at first level every character receives maximum hit points for his hit die type. If this is correct, then O-Chul's average HP using your assumptions (level 13, Con 24) would be 167.

In any case, why do everyone assume O-Chul has average HP for his level/stats? If that were the case, he wouldn't be known as the TOUGHEST Sapphire Guard paladin. It's quite likely that O-Chul has over 200 HP.

Remember that he did, after all, survive an explosion that killed a character with many levels above him.

[David Argall]

Look here http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0542.html and on 656.

O-chul is FAR from 0 hitpoints. You can say easyly by just looking on his damage scratches.

This relies too much on the artistic precision. As has been noted, Redcloak wasn't even shown as hurt at first. O-Chul is shown with extra red in 542 because he was going to be dropped by a mere cantrip. Now we can deduct here that O-Chul is not going down with some trivial spell. So there is no need to be showing the exact number of hp left. If O-Chul is down or is going to be taken down, there are enough scratches to justify that, and if he is going to stay up, there is justification for that too.

And we have figures that are close enough to allow us to accept any result given. We can put O-Chul anywhere in the range of +10 to -10 without straining the math beyond belief.

[Actually it is harder to justify the death of Jirix, who has visible armor, and should have substantial hp as well.]

[Shpadoinkle]

I figure O-chul's about level 15 by now, which, assuming average HP and a CON of 25 (+7 modifier), that gives him 192 HP on average. He could very well have rolled better than average (considering his legendary endurance, he probably did), and he may have a few from the Toughness line of feats. So depending on how he rolled, he could be down by between roughly a fifth and a sixth of his max HP (assuming maximum HP rolls and minimum damage from all the spells, or average damage and successful saves, which works out to be slightly higher), or he could be in single digits.

[Carisbourg]

Another question is, Has he had enough time off screen to cast a few Heals and Lay Hands on himself?

[Xesirin]

Another question is, Has he had enough time off screen to cast a few Heals and Lay Hands on himself?

Judging by the scratches, he probably hasn't healed himself at all, although its not out of the question.

[tKircher]

He's tired, unarmored, unbuffed, previously damaged (possibly by some long-lasting damage), added on top of the colossal damage he's already taken (see OP)

It's either in the interest of the story that he's alive, or he has some kind of +999 health enchanted kidney or something. Either way, a lot of rules and continuities are being bent in this entire arc.

[Broler]

He probably didn't make the save to the disintegrate judging by the art

[Haven]

But I think only two meteors hit him. Look at the grey patches from where smoke arise. There are two.

But there are four trails of smoke.

Anyway, while he doesn't have as much red on him, it looks like after those Meteors hit him, he's got huge burns; the Maximized Bolt probably dropped him to negatives. If Xykon wanted him dead, he probably could have cast another Meteor Swarm.

[SPoD]

[Actually it is harder to justify the death of Jirix, who has visible armor, and should have substantial hp as well.]

We know so little about Jirix that it's impossible to justify either way. We don't even know his class, much less his level or his Constitution score. He could be a 4th level cleric who simply has a gift for paperwork, making him useful for Redcloak to keep around.

[Juron Pilo]

Maybe there is some sort of magical effect around the city that gives him the ability to take minimal damage from evil spells and effects?

[Kareasint]

We can agree that O-Chul was a Fighter before becoming a Paladin. How many times did he take the Toughness feat (+3 HP per feat taken and they stack)?

Also, O-Chul probably has the Diehard Feat also.

[Juron Pilo]

Good idea.

Prediction:

O-Chul will make it just outside the city before dieing.

[Dagren]

Good idea.

Prediction:

O-Chul will make it just outside the city before dieing.
That's a hell of a long way in just 10 rounds.

[Juron Pilo]

According to the description when your down to negative hp diehard makes it so you don't lose hp unless you take an action. He gets outside the city and he and Varsuuvius destroy the phylactery causing him to go down to -10 and die.

[Dagren]

According to the description when your down to negative hp diehard makes it so you don't lose hp unless you take an action. He gets outside the city and he and Varsuuvius destroy the phylactery causing him to go down to -10 and die.Oh yeah, I was thinking that moving was an action, but upon reading the SRD that doesn't seem to apply. Still, I find it hard to imagine he can get all the way out of an enemy held city at half speed with an epic level lich looking for him.

[Juron Pilo]

Well Varsuuvius can still turn around and use the phylactery as a hostage.

Btw could you spoiler tag your responses?

[Dagren]

Well Varsuuvius can still turn around and use the phylactery as a hostage.

Btw could you spoiler tag your responses?Done.And that would slow Xykon down for, what, 1 round? Plus it would mean giving up her only remaining advantage. (Invisibility)

[Juron Pilo]

I don't know, maybe Varsuuvius has Quickened Dispell? Though we don't really know the type of abjurations used.

[Kareasint]

Dispel is probably not going to cut it here. The DC is probably going to be high. A Mage's Disjunction would work if the item's will save failed. That is not an option because the splice is finished.

For the most part, all of this guessing is pretty much moot anyway. If I am a Lich, the first thing I would do after stopping someone from destroying my Phylactery is to secure it. Xykon probably picked it up and put it in his pocket after knocking O'Chul down.

[David Argall]

We know so little about Jirix that it's impossible to justify either way. We don't even know his class, much less his level or his Constitution score. He could be a 4th level cleric who simply has a gift for paperwork, making him useful for Redcloak to keep around.

We don't Know, but the routine options are 1st level [who should already be dead] or high enough to at least make party members pause. And the game routinely has the commanders at high level. Jirix would be something from 5th-10th level. We also give him an AC of around 20. And we end up with another case where O-Chul needs a 20 to hit, and still may not kill him, to which we add giving O-Chul the init despite having his back turned. O-Chul is getting a free ride here too.

[SOdhner]

And we have figures that are close enough to allow us to accept any result given. We can put O-Chul anywhere in the range of +10 to -10 without straining the math beyond belief.

I think that's really what it all comes down to. It reasonable to say he's alive but very injured, alive with negative HP, or dead. I can't imagine it's the first one since X is looking for V, but I guess we'll find out.


Actually it is harder to justify the death of Jirix, who has visible armor, and should have substantial hp as well.

Well, he took some damage already from V's lightning... I don't know enough to say if that makes it make sense.

[ghostaxe]

Wait, how are people getting such high numbers for O-chul's CON? 24 (+7)!?

The maximum a level 1 human can have is 18 (+4), even if he took all of his stat-ups every 4th level in CON, that's only 21 (+5). Normally, you could go higher because of gear, but obviously O-Chul doesn't have any.

At the very most, he could have taken the Human Paragon class from Unearthed Arcana for another +2 CON, which is still only 23 (+6) (though there is no evidence of him doing so). 24 CON or higher is just not possible without serious templatage..

Personally, I'd say:

Disintegrate, saved, 5d6
Meteor swarm, all hit, 32d6
Maximized Lightning Bolt, saved, 30

Damage = 37d6 + 30, mean = 159.5, standard deviation = sqrt(37)*1.71 = 10.4

Let's look at his HP:

At 13th level, he has 10+12d10+13*(CON mod) HP. Assuming I'm right and he only has a 20 CON (+5), that's 75+12d10, mean = 141, std dev = sqrt(12)*2.87 = 9.95.

He's supposed to be the "toughest paladin on the Sapphire Guard," but he's also pretty high level, so let's say he's only 1 standard deviation above normal here, at 151 HP. (EDIT: For those who don't know stat, getting 1 standard deviation or better has a 16% chance of happening... it's like rolling 18 or better on d20).

So, in conclusion:

Saved Disintegrate, saved lightning bolt, average damage = 159.5, he'd be at -8.5 HP, just as expected

Saved Disintegrate, failed lightning bolt, average damage = 189.5, he'd be at -38.5 HP, completely dead

Saved Disintegrate, failed lightning bolt, low damage (-2 standard deviations) = 168.5, he'd be at -17.5 HP. If he was 2 standard deviations above normal for his HP rolls, he'd be at -7.5 HP. (2 standard deviations is 2.2%, like rolling a natural 20 and then rolling another 11 or higher.)

Failed Disintegrate, saved lightning bolt, low damage = 253 damage, he'd be at -101 damage, WAAY beyond dead.

[Superglucose]

24 CON or higher is just not possible without serious templatage..

Or homebrew.

Oh (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html) waaaaaaaait... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html)

[Flickerdart]

Wait, how are people getting such high numbers for O-chul's CON? 24 (+7)!?

Word of God. Rich says O-Chul's CON is in the mid-20s, therefore it is.

[ghostaxe]

Word of God. Rich says O-Chul's CON is in the mid-20s, therefore it is.

Er... when did he say that?

[Shadic]

War and XPs commentary. It's been quoted many times. Look at the Stats topic.

[Tass]

How does the calculations in this thread compare to the geekery that was done after the acid shark episode? I can't find the thread.

[Shpadoinkle]

Manual of Bodily Health. Permanently raises your Constitution by as many as 5 points, and since it's an inherant effect (essentailly a permanent buff that can't be dispelled), you don't need the book anymore after you've used it. Assuming he started at level 1 with a high Con (17 or 18) and put his stat points from leveling in that, he could easly be at 25 Con by now.