View Full Version : Mixing A Mage Martini[3.5]

2009-05-26, 09:11 AM
In a campaign I'm playing at the moment, my character is a third-level human sorcerer. Given the plot and roleplaying so far, it looks like (I didn't name him) Walter's next level will be taken in Wizard. Walter's personality also suits the classic perception of wizards rather than sorcerers, which makes sense (to me) in that sorcerers didn't choose to have their magical affinity. He still has the intelligence for the class though, it's his second-highest ability score.

Mixing mage classes like this probably isn't "optimal", but at the same time I don't want to miss anything obvious with the build. I'd like to develop Walter a bit more into a crafter, (he started with Craft Wondrous when I took him up) and part of the reason I like the notion of adding a level of Wizard is the greater flexibility in future spell researching and spell selection for crafting.

Do any of you have suggestions on how I might best use/add the wizard level? Or advice on the synergy/clashing between sorcerer and wizard classes?

I was thinking that Walter would choose divination as a specialty school, and ban necromancy. His sorcerer levels are always going to be superior to his wizard, and are probably more tactically useful anyways. On the other hand, banning evocation and necromancy and specializing in another school might work out as well, given that if Walter needs to do some blasting, his sorcerer slots are better suited for it. From what I've read here, the general opinion is somewhat disdainful of evocation, but some of you might think otherwise.

As might be shown by my hesitancy and perhaps a lack of clarity, my D&D-fu is weak. This campaign is the first I've done in years, so I'm still getting my instincts back.

2009-05-26, 09:20 AM
Necromancy is awesome, and i don't mean for creating undead. Great debuffs, some amazingly powerful spells. Evocation is terrible, except for contingency, and its coup de grace is the illusion spell shadow evocation. IF you REALLY want to do this, go ultimate magus. It will allow you to advance both at once. It's not optimal, but it's certainly better than alternating classes. Also, it usually is better for wizard to be the higher class, but if this is your flavor, go with it.

Edit: Ultimate Magus is in the complete mage. It offers strong progression (10 of the lower class, 7 of the stronger - I think) and additional abilities too. Not completely optimal, but the only way to do this build and be effective.

Edit 2: Halfling... yay.

2009-05-26, 09:58 AM
I'd go with Ultimate Magus for sure. With Practiced Spellcaster: Wizard (feat in Complete Arcane) and Precocious Apprentice, you could make Sorcerer your primary class while advancing Wizard as a secondary support class. Because you have already taken 3 levels in Sorcerer, chances are you won't make Wizard your primary class simply because it's years of study thrown away for nothing. But with Ultimate Magus it could make a decent secondary

Now, the problem is that doing what you plan will delay your access to level 2 spells by yet another level. Sorcerer needs level 4 to get level 2 spells and Wizard needs level 3. This means that your arcane abilities will be lacking behind what the game expects you to be capable of as an arcanist. That said, if you're willing to put up with the lack of the awesome level 2 magic (Glitterdust, Web, etc.) for another level or two and don't worry about getting the party killed, that seems like the way to go.

2009-05-26, 11:15 AM
If you don't want to use Ultimate Magus or your GM won't allow it, ask if it is possible to retrain your Sorcerer levels into Wizard levels as time goes on.

Eventually, being 3 levels behind as a wizard won't just be "not optimal" - it will be "painfully bad." And those 2nd level arcane sorcerer spells aren't ever going to improve with time, only become less useful as you face higher CR threats.

To put it in perspective, if I were you I would rather pay XP to retrain my levels than stick with a Sor3/WizX build. Even if the XP cost was half as much as it took me to gain the level in the first place. So 500 XP to retrain one sorcerer level, 1000 XP to retrain a second, and so on.


2009-05-26, 11:46 AM
If you really, really want to go Wizard 1/Sorc 3, go UM. See if your DM will allow you to mess with the Requirements so you make it as Sorc 4/Wiz 1, rather than needing Sorc 1(3 for you)/Wiz 3, then go Metamagic-abusing. Practiced Spellcaster on whichever side is weaker, of course.

Not using some means of getting dual-progression will make the group optimizer cry. For perspective, at 9th level a Sorc 8/Wizard 1 has one 4th level spell, castable 4x per day. A Wizard 9 has 2 5th level spells plus any he copied down, castable 3x per day, and as many 4th level spells as he wants at this point, castable 4x per day. 3 5th level spell slots at a point when you just got 4th level ones. That hurts.